selfless love is just an illusion

[CarryingOn123]

As for your wife, yes Lady Jane pointed that out well. In her initial panic she pointed the finger at the OM, but when it comes to the reality of laying the blame solely on him, she cannot go through with it. It certainly should not be taken as proof of love for you or the other man. This is where testing is usually flawed, because people may take action for any number of reasons. Usually the reasons have to do with themselves, and not anybody else. Again people are selfish, or rather they are extremely subjective. How could she really, publicly at that, put sole blame for the "affair" onto the OM? There again, here lies truth as best as you will likely get it, that she does, somewhere, know that she is equally responsible for the affair. Or this is certainly the most obvious reality that glares out at myself, and clearly LJ too.

 

I have posted earlier that it was not about her putting sole blame on the OM, i will just quote what I had written earlier here

 

To the best of my understanding, for the AOA- she doesnt have to deny any responsibility for her affair , but just acknowledge his part. It is really not necessary that she cooperates as there is sufficient cause even otherwise (afterall it is very rare that a spouse will support an AOA suit). She can still be called to testify. So her cooperation is not really necessary, I just wanted her to choose me in an impossible situation. but clearly she hasn't.

 

Like I said in my previous post she doesn't need to claim to be an innocent party. So she doesn't have to compromise her intergrity. I think that all that they are trying to prove is that we had a proper solid marriage before this guy came along. Both of them can be equally responsible, it doesn't matter for the case. I think it is the laws way of putting responsibilty on home wreakers who have nothing to lose otherwise, while the spouse stands to lose the marriage, etc.

[CarryingOn123]

It certainly should not be taken as proof of love for you or the other man. This is where testing is usually flawed, because people may take action for any number of reasons. Usually the reasons have to do with themselves, and not anybody else.

 

I wanted her to chose me in an impossible situation... If she had, then maybe, just maybe, I wouldn't have gone ahead with the suit. I just wanted to know if she will stand by me no matter what personal costs.

 

....her cooperation is not really necessary, I just wanted her to choose me in an impossible situation. but clearly she hasn't.

[CarryingOn123]

See everybody sees a different reality to the same situation, and it is subjective, usually based on the persons own emotional state regarding a personal situation.

That she is responsible too, also does not mean that she does not love you, it could also mean that she could not deal with the reality of what was happening, without having a shut down of some feelings. It is a common reaction to ongoing pain. You do keep belittling what she went through. It was not the physical caring for you that anybody was speaking of, and yet this is what you thought of. Your thoughts on this make it seem very clear that you do not have much understanding of what your wife actually went through. Is this also selfish? Could be, couldn't it?

 

You see, everybody is "selfish", even heros like yourself are "selfish". Should everybody be punished? Or is the anguish that we put ourselves through because of lack of acceptance enough? By realising that we are actually pretty much equal, do we not become less selfish? Isn't selfishness mainly a state bought about by a percieved seperation from one another?

 

First of all, I dont see myself as a hero, I dont think I would have done the same thing for a stranger the way firefighters do. What I did was because I loved the person that I was trying to save.

 

We are all selfiish, except to people that we really love and to people who we think deserves compassion (like destitutes, orphans, refugees, etc). It is only with these people that we give without thinking, secure in the love for eachother. I am sad that I was not in that category for her to do that for me.

 

I have not belittled her suffering, I was merely pointing out that she was not standing by my bed the whole time. I pointed this out because people, you included, were using those exact same words to potray her state then.

 

I admit(as I have done in the past) that I am being selfish with regards to this situation now. Right now I am putting myself first, what I need, how is it best for me, etc. This is because I didn't think she would put me first as I have done with her previously. I simply dont have the security in that relationship anymore to be unselfish. I feel that I need to take care of my own needs in this relationship, because she wont, and if I just kee on giving without thinking, then I will feel used later on.

[Guestess]

I wanted her to chose me in an impossible situation... If she had, then maybe, just maybe, I wouldn't have gone ahead with the suit. I just wanted to know if she will stand by me no matter what personal costs.

 

I see, but your methods of trying to find out if she will or won't are still flawed. She does not see the other man as deserving of her turning against him, still it does not mean that she would not stand by you, just that she will not agree with a decision you made. Doesn't this actually make her a better person? Does it mean she loves you any less? No, not in any way, does that say so. Not to me at least.

Of course you feel let down. I suppose that at some point, we all have to accept that no human will ever be able to give us as much as we feel we need, but that we can love them anyway. To be honest with you, I would feel uncomfortable to be in a relationship with somebody who expects perfection. It goes both ways.

Of course you are also at a stage in the process of recovery, this is obvious. Perhaps you are not ready to trust again in a relationship. Unfortunately, the turn of events has left you in a position where you have to make some fast decisions. However, basing those decisions on flawed tests, probably isn't a very good way to proceed with this.

You do seem to have a very harsh way of looking at these people, I mean did the other man really think theres a vunerable woman he could manipulate sex from? Are you sure? Did your wife really not suffer too badly or have any kind of mental breakdown when her true love lay in a coma for over a year, and day after day hope of recovery gave way to despair?

Of course you are angry, and really it is no time to make decisions, but life requires it. Perhaps that is why a few people have tried to give you another way of looking at events and the psychology of the people involved, perhaps rather strongly, because of the urgency of the situation. Perhaps because of the urgency you also feel pressured into devising these tests. It is all very understandable, and all very sad. My heart does go out to you, and I am not really a hag. However, there are things that you only can understand with experience, and sometimes you have to accept that you do not know them. Such as, what your wife went through.

You speak alot about how your wife gave you no reason to distrust her when you were together. Perhaps all you can really do is try to base your decisions on who you believed your wife to be before this threw you. I just don't think you can base your decision on what happened during this trauma, because sometimes people temporarily fall apart.

[CarryingOn123]

I see, but your methods of trying to find out if she will or won't are still flawed. She does not see the other man as deserving of her turning against him, still it does not mean that she would not stand by you, just that she will not agree with a decision you made. Doesn't this actually make her a better person? Does it mean she loves you any less? No, not in any way, does that say so. Not to me at least.

Of course you feel let down. I suppose that at some point, we all have to accept that no human will ever be able to give us as much as we feel we need, but that we can love them anyway. To be honest with you, I would feel uncomfortable to be in a relationship with somebody who expects perfection. It goes both ways.

.

 

If my methods are flawed, what if the correct way of finding out?

 

She might not see the need to turn against him, but I do. In not standing by me she is still putting her needs first. Does that make her a better person?.. I dont know.. Does that mean she loves me any less?.. well it definitely doesnt show me she loves me any more or willing to go the extra mile for me. Do I feel let down, Of course I do

 

I dont want, or demand perfection in a relationship. I have said that this is probably the only thing I would have taken to heart.... -bringing another man into our sanctum sanctorum. Everything else, I could work through. I dont demand perfection, I only want true love and sincerity. I dont believe that is too much to ask for.

[CarryingOn123]

You do seem to have a very harsh way of looking at these people, I mean did the other man really think theres a vunerable woman he could manipulate sex from?

 

I think so, based on what I've heard.

 

Are you sure?

 

I am positive

 

 

Did your wife really not suffer too badly or have any kind of mental breakdown when her true love lay in a coma for over a year, and day after day hope of recovery gave way to despair?.

 

She didn't have a mental breakdown, but I never said she didn't suffer. I will not try to make light of that. All that is true.

 

But I also think that where there is true love, there is absolutely no excuse for adultery. No excuse whatsoever, doesn't matter if you are sad, lonely, depressed, angry, etc. You just never cross that line.

[CarryingOn123]

....and I am not really a hag. .

 

I didn't think you were

[CarryingOn123]

You speak alot about how your wife gave you no reason to distrust her when you were together. Perhaps all you can really do is try to base your decisions on who you believed your wife to be before this threw you.

 

I didn't distrust her, as she never lied to me about anything (as far as I am aware of). But you dont realise, this is not about honesty- it is about sincerity, loyalty and fidelity.

 

Perhaps all you can really do is try to base your decisions on who you believed your wife to be before this threw you. I just don't think you can base your decision on what happened during this trauma, because sometimes people temporarily fall apart.

 

You are really not anywhere close to where I am now, so you dont understand the trauma in my mind. I cannot base any decision based on how things were when everything was fine. I have to see how things were when everything was screwed up, because you cant expect life to be smooth sailing in the future.

 

I used to be a very confident and secure person. Right now I have a lot of insecurities with her- I think, what is something similar happens again, what if I become paralysed, what if I become impotent, a lot of what if's like that- I wonder if she is going to try to get her unmet needs met by someone else then, or will she sacrifice those needs. That is my dilema, and that is why these "flawed" tests.

[CarryingOn123]

I have been giving it some thought, And I think I'm going to call SW and ask her to meet me for a one on one talk. This time, it is for me to talk and her to listen. I am going to tell her exactly what I feel. Let her deal with it in whichever manner she seems fit.

[LovingLife]

I have been giving it some thought, And I think I'm going to call SW and ask her to meet me for a one on one talk. This time, it is for me to talk and her to listen. I am going to tell her exactly what I feel. Let her deal with it in whichever manner she seems fit.

Maybe a good idea, but it could be that you are not ready for that yet (in your current angry state)

[Ladyjane14]

I have been giving it some thought, And I think I'm going to call SW and ask her to meet me for a one on one talk. This time, it is for me to talk and her to listen. I am going to tell her exactly what I feel. Let her deal with it in whichever manner she seems fit.

 

Have you talked it over with your family members yet? Just a thought... but that might be a better place to start.

 

You don't want to lead SW on, and you don't want to put yourself in a position where you feel manipulated either. Your family knows all the principle players involved in a way that we don't here at LS. They might be a pretty good barometer on whether you're both strong enough to keep the discussion constructive.

[CarryingOn123]

I didn't get to do anything yesterday. I had a terrible headache, and it caused all sorts of drama. They took me back to the hospital, and I was monitored for a day, and after that they checked me out telling me it was just a migrain!...sigh

 

 

2'long, in my view true love is two people living for eachother (just to put it simply), I can go as deep as you want to go on this.

[CarryingOn123]

I agree, there are no excuses for infidelity. But people do commit adultery, and even the affairees have 2 come 2 grips with the choices they've made and the destruction they've left behind in their wake, even2ally.

 

The key is finding how 2 2rn adversity in2 oppor2nity. Oppor2nity for personal growth.

 

Unless we're dead (and for some, even if we are), we have 2 find a way 2 go forward, whatever our past.

 

I really didn't understand what you were saying. Was it a general comment or was it something specific to this situation?

 

 

Have you talked it over with your family members yet? Just a thought... but that might be a better place to start.

 

You don't want to lead SW on, and you don't want to put yourself in a position where you feel manipulated either. Your family knows all the principle players involved in a way that we don't here at LS. They might be a pretty good barometer on whether you're both strong enough to keep the discussion constructive.

 

I haven't talked to all my family yet. (thats because all the drama with the migraine happened). But I spoke to my sis earlier today. She said that all of them will support anything that I want, that Only I can decide what I want. Knowing her, I need to give her time to bring out her opinion rather than being non-commital

 

Why not tell her in the form of a letter?

 

Why not tell her with a marriage counselor present?

 

 

I thought it might be better to do it face to face rather than in a letter as it is a 2 way conversation (though I am open to it too). I dont know about the marriage counsellor being present, because they tend to tone down things and I will end up repressing my emotions, while I need to get it all out to her.

 

what do you think

[whichwayisup]

I didn't get to do anything yesterday. I had a terrible headache, and it caused all sorts of drama. They took me back to the hospital, and I was monitored for a day, and after that they checked me out telling me it was just a migrain!...sigh

 

I hope you're feeling better. You're stressing out and giving yourself stress migraines..Yuk! I feel for ya, I get migraines too and know firsthand how awful they are. So, slow down the pace abit and rest. Your health comes first, so take care of you!! (Ok, I'll stop nagging ya which probably makes me one of the "hags" on your thread. Though, 35 years old should be too young for a hag!)

 

thought it might be batter to do it face to face

 

Definately.

[CarryingOn123]

Why are everyone obsessed with hags now just because someone made an inappropriate post. Someone else also mentioned it sometime back, think it was guestess

 

Migraines as such were not the problem, but when I had one they wanted to rule out that it was anything other than a migraine (some sort of bleed or something like that, I guess).

[whichwayisup]

I'm glad it wasn't something more serious.

 

Oops, I should have used the and other fun faces, I'm just joking around tonight about the hag thing, but guess it didn't come off that way.

[CarryingOn123]

2 days back, I was all fired up to talk to her, but now I lost that momentum. I need to build it up again before talking to her.

 

Btw, her mom is coming to stay with her next month, She will be here for a year or so.

[CarryingOn123]

I was also just pulling your leg :-), but I wonder if that is the reason a lot of other people have stoped posting:D

[whichwayisup]

You made me snort from a big laugh there.

 

Hey you HAGS, get yer ass back on CO's thread.

 

There, they'll come back now cuz I said so. hehe..

[Walk]

I'll come post sometime in the next millenium. I'm still back on page 20 something trying to read all these dang posts.. hahaha By the time I get to this page, all of you will be on page 80+.

 

*sigh*

I'll never catch up....

 

 

CarryingOn, you said you lost momentum of talking to her face to face. I've found starting a letter about what you want to say can get you back into the mindset/feeling.

 

Ok, back to reading...

[LovingLife]

Hang in there my friend, take care of your health. make that your no 1 priority, stop anything else that is counterproductive to it- no matter what.

Am In my own hell, but I am thinking of you and my wishes to you..take care

[Guestro]

Let's get it straight. What you want is reconciliation. You loved your wife enough to die for her, and you almost did. You cannot just wish that kind of love away.

Now, if you end up looking like a fool, it will be a fool for love. And that man, in no fool.

Suffer the children, you don't want to end up on the hateful side of things, I swear to you. It's dark down here. And terrible things move upon the waters of the deeps.

[CarryingOn123]

Let's get it straight. What you want is reconciliation.

 

How did you figure that out. I know that I haven't figured it out myself

 

You loved your wife enough to die for her, and you almost did. You cannot just wish that kind of love away.

 

you are right there. But I admitted you are right when you are talking in past tense. It wouldn't have been right if you were talking in present tense. I am just quoting what I had written earlier about this

 

You asked me if I still loved her- I dont know...maybe a little, but let me tell you what I do know for sure. If we got back together, I will not feel like putting myself in the line of fire to protect her. That is a sad fact. and that I'm sure of. So then I ask myself.... is that the kind of relationship that I want... No... I will hopefully find a relationship in future where I can be where my heart can rule over my head.

 

Earlier, I couldn't imagine life without her, now it is getting routine, every day it is becoming more of a way of life.

 

Now, if you end up looking like a fool, it will be a fool for love. And that man, in no fool.

 

Quite honestly, I dont feel like looking like a fool for anything. I already feel foolish and naive as it is. I think I've already reached my comfort saturation level:) . I dont think I can take any more

 

Suffer the children, you don't want to end up on the hateful side of things, I swear to you. It's dark down here. And terrible things move upon the waters of the deeps.

 

You keep telling me this, but how am I suffering "the children"- what children?. As to her unborn baby, how am I making it suffer. Are you saying that if that kid doesn't have my presence in its life it will suffer?.. why should it- its not like it grew up considering me the father, or that it bonded with me in any way.

 

you don't want to end up on the hateful side of things, I swear to you.

 

Quite honestly, How many people can raise a child of their spouse, born out of an extra-marital affair, as their own. How many people will want to have this constant humiliation as part of their everyday lives. How many people will tolerate the other person in their future lives.

 

I can tell you Sir Bob Geoldoff is one(and his is a different case altogether in the sense both the spouse and the OM is dead, and he is with a wonderful woman now), he is a great guy, but how many like him?

 

 

 

It's dark down here. And terrible things move upon the waters of the deeps.

 

Are you really serious or are you just pulling my leg with all this poetry:)

[whichwayisup]

You cannot just wish that kind of love away.

 

No, but what she did and her actions have chipped away his love for her. How could it not?

[CarryingOn123]

No, but what she did and her actions have chipped away his love for her. How could it not?

very true.. I still have some love for her, at some level... but it is nothing remotely close to that intense feeling (that she was an integral part of me) I had for her before all this.