selfless love is just an illusion

[CarryingOn123]

Look up old posts by "K" on Marriage Builders.

 

is that some other online forum?.. dont worry I'll try and google it.

 

He's just one of many I've come 2 know over the years who've done just that.

 

I din't say there were none, But these people are very few and rare.

 

It may not be for you, or it may be and you haven't "discovered" that aspect of yourself yet.

 

it'll be interesting 2 see what you decide 2 do.

 

-ol' 2long

 

I dont think I can do it... I dont know.... I know that I dont want to do it. .. whether I can do it- I dont know, I dont know if I can be that big a man... I dont think thats what I need in my life.

 

BTW thnx for the info 2L

[CarryingOn123]

Look up old posts by "K" on Marriage Builders. He's just one of many I've come 2 know over the years who've done just that.

 

Tried to read his posts, cant read his old posts though (the ones with his story). and for that matter cant read his latest ones also, you need to be a regular member to get into that With child forum.

[CarryingOn123]

But one thing that I noticed there was that the Dr was advising total NC with affair partner, even if it meant NC with the child till adulthood 9not even visitation..

 

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=35;t=002457

 

I recently wrote to Dr. Harley because I wondered what his position was in regards to oc's with H and Ow.

 

Thought I'd come her and let you all read it.

 

BTW I miss you guys but it's better for me to stay away for now.

H and I are doing terrific and I need to get on with things for now.

I feel sooooo bad for CD!!!!! I just end up depressed reading all the newbies stories.

 

I pray for us all.

 

love

 

Debi

 

Subj: Marriage Builders

Date: 2/18/2002 10:00:00 AM Eastern Standard Time

From: [email protected] (Willard F. Harley, Jr.)

To:

 

 

Debi,

 

The position I take on children born of an affair is that since

restoring a marriage requires an unfaithful spouse to never see or talk

to the lover, it's too risky for visitation. I've witnessed time and

time again where the visitation has triggered the affair all over

again. Besides, any contact with the former lover is usually a great

offense to the betrayed spouse.

 

My advice is to avoid contact with the child until he or she reaches

adulthood. Otherwise there is too much risk of your marriage coming to

a tragic end.

 

Best wishes

 

 

 

That is what I also was saying all along- that I dont want any part of my life to be shared with the OM. Does that make me a bad or unreasonable man- I dont know.

[MsArtful]

It doesn't make you a bad man, having a child is something you thought you would do with your wife. It's perfectly reasonable for you to feel the way you do.

I've read a lot of this thread, you sound like a good, strong person. I think, no matter what you decide, you will emerge out of this whole situation a more mature, wise and understanding person. Best of luck to you.

[CarryingOn123]

It doesn't make you a bad man, having a child is something you thought you would do with your wife. It's perfectly reasonable for you to feel the way you do.

I've read a lot of this thread, you sound like a good, strong person. I think, no matter what you decide, you will emerge out of this whole situation a more mature, wise and understanding person. Best of luck to you.

thanks buddy

[Sup]

But one thing that I noticed there was that the Dr was advising total NC with affair partner, even if it meant NC with the child till adulthood 9not even visitation..

 

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=35;t=002457

 

 

 

That is what I also was saying all along- that I dont want any part of my life to be shared with the OM. Does that make me a bad or unreasonable man- I dont know.

 

 

Some people refer to "triggers", with OM around, that would be one BIG "trigger":eek:

[LovingLife]

Does OM want to be involved with raising the child. If he doesn't then that wont be a problem

 

BTW what is a "trigger"

[CarryingOn123]

Yes, I think so..

 

Of course we havent talked about it (SW & me). But on his behaviour so far, I think he will want to be involved..

[CarryingOn123]

CarryingOn, you said you lost momentum of talking to her face to face. I've found starting a letter about what you want to say can get you back into the mindset/feeling.

 

Ok, back to reading...

 

Thanks for the suggestion, I think I will give it a go. Will do something to get into the frame of mind. At that time I was really aggressive and was all fired up to go for it.. Dont know if I can get back to that level.. But I will get the ball rolling.

[CarryingOn123]

Oh, SW called me today to check on me- she just heard that I was hospitalised for a day. She was asking me why no one called her and told her before, I asked her why- what could she have done. She said she would have wanted to have been there. I told her it was better that she didn't- atleast for the time being. But I didn't feel angry while talking to her, I didn't feel close or anything like that, but I also didn't get angry.

[CarryingOn123]

D asked me if I wanted her to plan a holiday for us, similar to the one that we had about a month ago. I told her that we will work something out, I think a couple of days away will do me good

[CarryingOn123]

Also the AOA suit has been filed. My lawyer informed me that it was filed on tuesday. The other guy would be served sometime in the next 4-7 days. Come to think of it, I forgot to mention it to SW....- But I'm sure se will come to hear about it soon anough

[Walk]

The only way I would be able to take that child into my own home would be if I KNEW I could make it work with the parent of that child. Not if I was debating if I even wanted to try... I'd have to be leaning heavily toward feeling that the relationship would last for a long, long time.

 

Otherwise your doing far more damage to that child then it would've been put through had you left yourself out of the equation. If "we" are really going to put the welfare of the child above the wants of adults.. then what is in the best interest of that child? For two people who were once very much in love to give it another go? Or for the two people who created that child to actually put their FULL effort into making their relationship work?

 

Please forgive me if I'm making an ass out of myself... I didn't read every post (I meant to, but it's soooo long). But this is what I think from the information I have... Let me know if I'm jacked up.

 

Personally.. and this is my opinion only.. I would remove myself from the equation and force the wife to concentrate on the man who will be the father of that child. IF she was certain (with no influence from CarryingOn) that her relationship with the childs father wouldn't work, then she would be free to pursue other relationships. Either with CarryingOn, if that is what he wanted, or with someoen else. But she would have to make that decision on her own. Finish one before starting another. She's leaving everyone hanging on CarryingOn's decision. This isn't entirely his decision, and I don't see her making any decisions. She seems to be using CarryingOn to make that decision for her.

 

Either she stays and makes it work with the childs father, or she chooses not to. But if that is an option she would choose if CarryingOn wasn't in the picture, then she needs to stop using CarryingOn as an excuse. She needs to either cut the chord with the OM and move on.. or stay and put her full effort into it.

 

But like all her other decisions that I've read about.. she's going along with the flow, letting others influence her decisions. She's seems kind of weak inside.. and I think I understand better why she wasn't able to wait for a difinitive outcome of the coma... she waited until a stronger influence came along and made her decisions for her..

 

Either way.. at this point, I would set my needs aside and ask what would be best for the child, and would I be able to provide that. If I couldn't provide that, then I could not involve myself in that childs life. Wouldn't matter if I felt I could accept the child or not... but what does the child need. Two biological parents committed to raising it... or two people unsure of whether their marriage could withstand the added stress of raising someone elses child?

 

p.s. I'm really sorry if I've restated soemthing already discussed and resolved. Again, I didn't read the entire thread.. there's sooo much information here it's hard to catch up.

[CarryingOn123]

I had told her initially that she should stick with the OM, but she told me she didn't want to do that. She said she made that decision irrespective of whether things work out with us or not (but she also told me that she wants us to get back together more than anything), anyway they dont live together anymore. So if we go by what she is saying, then even if we dont reconcile, she is finished with the other guy. Well thats what she had said.

[Guest]

Either way.. at this point, I would set my needs aside and ask what would be best for the child, and would I be able to provide that. If I couldn't provide that, then I could not involve myself in that childs life. Wouldn't matter if I felt I could accept the child or not... but what does the child need. Two biological parents committed to raising it... or two people unsure of whether their marriage could withstand the added stress of raising someone elses child?

 

I dont agree.

 

You are not responsible for the best interests of the child, as long as you are not harming the kid. The best interests of the kid maybe to be adopted into a billonare's family, so do everyone put their needs aside and a billionare adopt the kid?.

 

You dont put your needs aside. You think about what will work for you, and as long as you are doing that without purposely harming anyone else, then its ok. I dont think you need to sacrifice your needs for the kid or your wife

[Walk]

You dont put your needs aside. You think about what will work for you, and as long as you are doing that without purposely harming anyone else, then its ok. I dont think you need to sacrifice your needs for the kid or your wife

 

I wasn't recommending he martyr himself.. only that when making a decision to include the child that he forget about his wants/needs for a moment and think ONLY about what the kid needs. Then add that knowledge back into the equation.

 

Say the guy did want to recouncil with the wife, and he couldn't handle having the child in his life? So he puts his wants and needs above a child?

 

All I'm saying is humans have a tendency to say "I need" when in reality we really just want it. And want can be an evil thing sometimes. It can cause us to do things that hurt others, but we cover it by saying we had good intentions.. or we didn't think it would hurt anyone else. (take his wife for example..) So instead of only thinking about what you specifically want/need in life.. take other people into consideration before making a decision. Our decisions have multiple repercussions and these repercussions can be cloaked by our desire to have what we want. If you throw out what you want and need, sometimes it gives a clearer picture of all possible repercussions. Does it mean you'll actually take in orphans and devote your life to them? No. But will you understand better how your decision will affect those kids? Probably.

[CarryingOn123]

oh,I agree that I will reconcile only if I think I can handle the situation-whatever that is...

[CarryingOn123]

not just about the kid- but also if I can get past her affair and betrayal..

[CarryingOn123]

SW called some time back and asked me why I didn't tell her that I filed the AOA suit.

 

me: because it doesn't involve yoy.

her: but it does involve me..

 

me: ..but not on my side..

her: you got it wrong there. I am on your side... I am always on your side..I love you

 

me: ..funny way of showing it though..

her: what do you want me to do.. tell me and I will do it..

 

me: I had told you.. but you didn't want to do it.. you had other people to consider

Her: it was not like that... but if thats what you want I'll do it

 

me: You dont have to do anything for me now... You made your stand pretty clear then...

Her: Do you know that I love you...

 

me: ...No...

Her: Well, I do.... and if you let me in I can show it to you

 

me: the same way you had shown me previously?... I dont think I can handle that much love again

Her: please dont shut me out... just give us a chance...

 

me: I dont trust you anymore... even now your reactions are hurtful to me...Even in this case that I asked you about.

Her: that was not like that... it was never like that.... I am sorry... I told you I'll do it if you want me to...

 

me: no need now... you will be called to the stand anyway.

 

She went on to say that she will do anything to make us work, and that I could see it if I took myself out of "outside influences"...

 

I told her I dont want to have thhis discussion now, but we will talk face to face later. I told her to come over this weekend to talk. She asked me if she can be alone with me, and not with a full house. I said that is what I wanted too.

 

After we hung up, I could hear my Sil's mobile ringing, and when she picked up I realised from the conversation that it is SW. My Sil went upstairs to talk, but they have been on the phone for over 40 mins now...

 

Well that's how it stands now. I have committed to talk to her. I am going to tell her how I feel about her, about what she did, about our relationship, about the other guy, about the kid, about how I want to legally seperate myself from the kd after birth, etc... Just a fluid plan now.. nothing has been set in stone about the meeting yet... I also wonder if SIL or someone else should be present.. There are pros and cons for both situations..

[whichwayisup]

Maybe having your sis there, in the next room is a good idea...Just incase. Or even she can wait outside...Having someone you both trust close by incase things get out of hand, overly emotional etc....

 

And yes, nothing is carved in stone...Don't close the door tightly yet, things could change in time. I mean, when you consider the time frame of all this, it's really not a long time and you're still recovering, needing to get better. And for her, she's now understanding more and more what she's done to you, as you shut her out, she's seeing the aftershocks and consquences of her actions from when you were in your coma. Obviously, she is regretting it... Yet, her words now from afew days ago are changing too. It seems she isn't as willing to "side" with the OM ... Though, if you two DO end up finalizing a divorce, could she do this alone...have the baby and not be with him after all said and done?

[Sup]

You should have someone there, if anything were to happen, it would be your word against hers. Not a good situation to be in, you have come thus far, DON'T let HER suck you in with tricks and deceit. DON'T let HER drag this on for more years. I smell something coming on the horizon, be careful.

[CarryingOn123]

You should have someone there, if anything were to happen, it would be your word against hers. Not a good situation to be in, you have come thus far, DON'T let HER suck you in with tricks and deceit. DON'T let HER drag this on for more years. I smell something coming on the horizon, be careful.

???? what could happen? we are just meeting for a talk....

[whichwayisup]

Geez sup, it's not like she's going to poison him or something...Having someone close by is a good thing, just incase it gets emotional. I don't think at this point things are going to be that bad. The fact now, both are willing to talk is good because things can be talked about and maybe even solved abit more...

[CarryingOn123]

Maybe having your sis there, in the next room is a good idea...Just incase. Or even she can wait outside...Having someone you both trust close by incase things get out of hand, overly emotional etc....

 

WWIU, I am not a person who will physically abuse my wife, or any other woman for that matter. Haven't done it before, wont do it again. Last time I got into a physical fight with a girl was when I was 6 when I pulled my friend pigtails in a fight . So dont worry abi=out it getting out of hand. About the emotional part, I think it will get out of hand.. It has to..someday

[CarryingOn123]

Maybe having your sis there, in the next room is a good idea...Just incase. Or even she can wait outside...Having someone you both trust close by incase things get out of hand, overly emotional etc....

 

But on the other hand, when I say something difficult for her to hear, then she should take it as me expressing my feelings, without worrying how it will look to the third party.. That was just a thougt.. but like I said there are both pros and cons..