selfless love is just an illusion

[CarryingOn123]

Originally Posted by 2long

There was another poster, Usedlongago, on MB about 3 or 4 years ago. Man in his 60s, who discovered his W had been having a long term affair when the OM died. 2rned out that their 28 yr old son was the OM's. He'd never kwown his bio dad, though, and wouldn't have wanted anything 2 do with him. In fact, for a while, he didn't want anything 2 do with his mom for what she'd done. Believe it or not, ULA's marriage recovered and they were doing well, last I heard.

 

I really feel for this guy...Living his entire life in a lie.. its so painful for me to read it, I can only imagine what it must have been for him...

 

To consider his decision, let us see his situation again... He is in his 60's, already a grandfather (I guess, or atleast prepard to be one)...Almost finished with the troubles of life... looking forward to retirement (if not already).. and looking to enjoy the golden years of his life...

 

He wouldn't wnat to leave the marriage and look for a new partner, because he is finished with tryinh to make a good life.. he is at a stage where he wants to enjoy the one that he has got... He must have settled to this decision based on these factors.

 

It is not the same case when it is a young couple just starting to make their family life, and who have their whole life to forge ahead of them..

 

Well 2Long, I went to the site to read up on his stoory, and his situation (based on which he made his decisions) were exactly as I had guessed- although unknowingly

 

I am posting his posts here

 

My story is briefly as follows. I discovered, after Christmas last year, that my youngest (27-year-old) son is the result of a long-term affair that my W (of 37 years) carried on until the death of her MM 7 years ago. We are working very hard on our marriage and are making excellent progress with our relationship and feel that we will make the rest of our journey through this life together. Yes, I still have some unresolved issues myself but I feel that I can overcome them with time, help from my W, and counseling.

 

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I know time will help but I also know that I am not getting any younger and I want to enjoy as much of my life as I have left without this dark cloud hanging over me.

 

 

 

 

................ Another thing we have to be grateful for is that we have been allowed to have the grandson on occasion which makes us extreemly happy

 

 

 

Yes, I would marry her again even knowing the terrible things that I discovered 9 months ago.

I do feel that if I was younger when these events were exposed I probably would have answered differently due in part to youthful impetuosity, but our dance has lasted for a long time. We have had 37 years together

[princessa]

A lot of OM/OW will come out as supportive towards the WS, that is how most affairs start. Does that mean that it is right that the WS should be supportive of the OM/OW- reciprocate the support? and how is the spouse supposed to feel at this time, and what chance does their relationship have in this case of continued feeling of loyalty/support/soft corner towards the affair partner

 

She is not supporting him because she pulled out of their relationship and had him move out. Has it ever occurred to you that perhaps she only wants to avoid hurting somebody any more than she already has? She must be ridden with guilt at this point, because this one mistake inflicted so much pain on both you and the other man.

 

In your seeking vengance against the other man, you are being inconsiderate towards your SW. Perhaps you'll get what you want if she testifies.. but it's gonna cost her. She'll have to carry the guilt of inflicting this lawsuit on the OM (I don't know about his financial status, but assuming the worst-case scenario.. and also just the principle behind this situation having a weight on its own). It's almost like you want her to suffer for what she did. You want revenge on the OM at all cost, and you want her to pay for what she and be as miserable as you are. That's fine, but at least call this thing by it's name and stop pretending that you have forgiven her. That's precisely what I meant by "bottled emotions".

 

 

where was this integrity of hers when she took on a lover, and invited another man to bed.

 

So she was willing to give up her integrity for him, so why not for me?- if she loves me like she says she does.

 

Mistake, by definition, is something we regret. She gave up her integrity once, it slapped her back in the face. Of course doesn't want to compromise it again. Whether she has learned her lesson for life I cannot tell, for some people one slap is enough, for others it takes three, ten.... n......

 

 

You are right there- I have a lot of unresolved emotions... but I am trying to deal with them the best way I can... even coming here, and being honest about my feelings, and not hesitating to write what I really feel is a step on my part towards this direction

 

That's good, and we're all proud of you. And on a lighter note... thanks, that's Kelis on my picture.. I too like staring at it sometimes

[CarryingOn123]

She is not supporting him because she pulled out of their relationship and had him move out. Has it ever occurred to you that perhaps she only wants to avoid hurting somebody any more than she already has? She must be ridden with guilt at this point, because this one mistake inflicted so much pain on both you and the other man.

 

She doesn't stop supporting him just because she pulled out of their romantic relationship and asked him to move out. She is still having a relationship with him albeit at a different level. It is not her decision to go for the AOA- it is mine and there was nothing she could have done about it. If she is out of her relation with him, then she is not supposed to be worried about his feelings, she is supposed to be worried about mine (if she was recommitted to me, that is). It is more like two people hanging on to a cliff face and you can save only one- who do you choose?

[whichwayisup]

And guys,

 

I dont expect to iron out any issues in this meeting. I do not expect that this meeting is going to resolve all the issues. I dont think we will get all the answers in this meeting..

 

My goal for this meeting is to try and effectively communicate to her how I really feel about everything.

 

Awww shyt, and I thought it was gonna be solved all in one day...

 

Noone (I hope!) is expecting anything to be solved so quickly. The fact that you're both willing to just talk is a good thing. It opens the door to other needed conversations in near future.

 

Hopefully she'll listen, really 'hear' what you're saying.

[CarryingOn123]

In your seeking vengance against the other man, you are being inconsiderate towards your SW. Perhaps you'll get what you want if she testifies.. but it's gonna cost her. She'll have to carry the guilt of inflicting this lawsuit on the OM (I don't know about his financial status, but assuming the worst-case scenario.. and also just the principle behind this situation having a weight on its own). It's almost like you want her to suffer for what she did. You want revenge on the OM at all cost, and you want her to pay for what she and be as miserable as you are. That's fine, but at least call this thing by it's name and stop pretending that you have forgiven her. That's precisely what I meant by "bottled emotions".

 

If me going against the OM (because I feel that I need it to move on) is going to cost her, then it means she is still emotionally invested in him. Now, if she gives evidence it is only because she has been subpoenaed. She can choose to tell the truth, or try cover for him. If that means that she will pay an enormous cost for it- then she is still emotionally involved with him. And I dont think I am using the AOA to punish her, The AOA is intended at the OM & the OM only. I am not using the AOA to punish her (i.e. thats not my intention). I am not trying to make her suffer with the AOA.

 

But you could say that I am being indifferent about her wrto the AOA- that is true. And also about the "inconsiderate" part. I have said that I feel the need to put my needs first (because she didn't), and let her handle the situations as best as she can, and not get worried about it. That is the concept in my mind (though I have difficulty sometimes acting on it, and I have to remind myself of everything to apply myself to this)

[CarryingOn123]

I don't know about his financial status, but assuming the worst-case scenario.. and also just the principle behind this situation having a weight on its own

 

FYI. He is not rich.. but he has a decently paying job. and if this AOA suit is successful then he will have to take out a mortgage/personal loan and pay it out over the years.

[CarryingOn123]

Mistake, by definition, is something we regret. She gave up her integrity once, it slapped her back in the face. Of course doesn't want to compromise it again. Whether she has learned her lesson for life I cannot tell, for some people one slap is enough, for others it takes three, ten.... n......

 

This mistake of her's- the same one that she regretted it soon after the first time . But this regret and integrity didnt prevent her from making it an ongoing affair for more than 6 months.

 

So it was Ok for her to sacrifice so much (on the presumption that I & "we" meant that much to her) for him, but she cant make those sacrifices for me (granted it might still be tearing her apart). What does that say about how much she sincere she is to me.

[CarryingOn123]

Awww shyt, and I thought it was gonna be solved all in one day...

 

.. Oh .. to be able to have it over and done with...

 

Noone (I hope!) is expecting anything to be solved so quickly. The fact that you're both willing to just talk is a good thing. It opens the door to other needed conversations in near future.

 

Hopefully she'll listen, really 'hear' what you're saying.

 

I hope so too

[Guest]

I know that your emotions are running high...but did you consider that if you bring on this AOA lawsuit that your will not only hurt the OM--but the support of your WS child? Just a question...... If he needs to make a second mortgage, he may not be able to support this baby that you do not want to take on. Should the child be punished for the sins of its father?

 

Not intended as an attack--just a question....

[princessa]

She can choose to tell the truth, or try cover for him. If that means that she will pay an enormous cost for it- then she is still emotionally involved with him.

 

Trying not to inflict damage upon someone's life doesn't mean you're necessarily emotionally involved with that person. That's a no-brainer. If she goes ahead and says something which will result in consequences that she believes to be unfair to the OM, she will pay an enourmous cost for it not because she is emotionally involved with him, but simply because she knows it will affect his life for a long time, will be unfair to him and mostly could be avoided. Anybody bears guilt for going against their own integrity. Forget emotional investment, at the core this is about being true to what you believe is just towards your fellow humans.

 

And I dont think I am using the AOA to punish her, The AOA is intended at the OM & the OM only. I am not using the AOA to punish her (i.e. thats not my intention). I am not trying to make her suffer with the AOA.

 

You don't think it will punish her because at this point you are (A) seeking vengeance, (B) are worrying about yourself first, and have no empathy whatsoever towards her feelings. But I hope you will come to realize that having this man pay out a large sum of money over the years will make her feel guilty, so by forcing her to get involved it will punish her regardless of what your intentions are. And by forcing I mean putting her in a position where she has to get involved or else lose you.

 

But you could say that I am being indifferent about her wrto the AOA- that is true. And also about the "inconsiderate" part. I have said that I feel the need to put my needs first (because she didn't), and let her handle the situations as best as she can, and not get worried about it.

 

Then leave her out of the lawsuit. And since you're in a phase where it's all about YOU, how can you even begin to assess how/why she might feel certain things? Until you're strong enough to experience empathy for her feelings I suggest that you shouldn't make any assumptions about her commitment to you.

 

If she is out of her relation with him, then she is not supposed to be worried about his feelings, she is supposed to be worried about mine (if she was recommitted to me, that is). It is more like two people hanging on to a cliff face and you can save only one- who do you choose?

 

Again, it's not about being worried about his feelings as a lover, it's about his feelings as another human being that you don't want to see go poor if you could prevent it. Keep in mind also that she is partly responsible for the affair. So in some way her not wanting the OM to pay the whole bill for this affair might be a way for her to take part of the responsibility for what she did. And guilt is inevitable if your debts are paid at somebody else's expense. This is very different from being emotionally attached to him.

 

Of course she is supposed to worry about your feelings the most. But you will not suffer major financial loss if this lawsuit doesnt succeed. In his case however, it might affect his life for quite a while.

 

This mistake of her's- the same one that she regretted it soon after the first time . But this regret and integrity didnt prevent her from making it an ongoing affair for more than 6 months.

 

I can't really argue this because I didn't read enough into the details. But if I had I would. I really feel for this woman. I know what it's like to try to come through to a man who's shut down his capacity for understanding, compassion and empathy.

 

I must add though that I respect you for fighting him in this way, it shows a strong character. You have the power to destroy him, and if there wouldn't have been repercussions on your SW I would've agreed with what you've planned, but I think it's unfair to her. Like I said earlier, I think you should hold off on making judgments or assumptions about her before you're able to truly put yourself in her shoes and feel what she feels.

[Sup]

FYI. He is not rich.. but he has a decently paying job. and if this AOA suit is successful then he will have to take out a mortgage/personal loan and pay it out over the years.

 

A small, er, LARGE price to pay for messing with someone elses wife, and life. You know I kinda wish they had that AOA lawsuit over here in the states, for one thing it WOULD discourage this kind of action. It would also make people more accountable for their actions, it seems like no one wants to take reponsiblity anymore, or even cares, if they got hit really hard in their wallet, they may not look to do this kind of thing. However, all the buearatic red tape and corrupt courts really don't help either, but, that's my opinion.

[Walk]

I think he should go through with the AOA lawsuit regardless of how the wife feels about it. She's going to feel guilty no matter what because if SHE hadn't been involved then none of this would've happened.

 

I believe CarryingOn wants this AOA to feel as though he's stood up for himself. To prove to himself that he is not just a stranded boat being beat apart by the waves. This is about him re-asserting his control over his own life. And yes his wife and the OM suffer, but if they hadn't tampered with CarryingOn's life in the first place, then they wouldn't be caught in the rip tide.

 

but simply because she knows it will affect his life for a long time, will be unfair to him and mostly could be avoided. Anybody bears guilt for going against their own integrity. Forget emotional investment, at the core this is about being true to what you believe is just towards your fellow humans.

Why does she get a say in what repercussions are dealt to the OM? Once she cut off her relationship to the OM, then all say in what happens to him is gone. How is it "unfair" to the OM?

 

If she doesn't believe the OM should be punished for her deeds, then she needs to step up and accept full responsibility. Not imply that she was in a bad place and couldn't help herself. But actually admit that she chose her own actions, and take full responsibility for it. Or realize that she was not entirely responsible, and stop feeling guilty for the OM's portion of the responsibility and let him "pay" for it himself.

 

I think she's still only thinking about herself and how this will affect her.

 

And Maybe this will open both the wife and OM's eyes to the Long term affects of their decision. To me it seems they both believe it'll all just go away by saying "Oops, my bad".

[Guest]

I agree with Princessa. This is about revenge. Nothing more. It's not noble. It's not praiseworthy. OP has been hurt and he wants everyone else to hurt, too. It's seriously unhealthy.

 

CarryingOn, I think you need several sessions with a shrink.

 

I also think the lawyers are ripping you off. A judge will see right through this case and your desire to stick it to the guy you feel wronged you and will throw it out of court.

 

You're being played. And your desire for revenge is blinding you to it.

[Ladyjane14]

I think that is what I need to do to have a feeling that I have taken action, and that I dont accept being a victim

 

 

I'm interested in hearing how your meeting with SW goes. I have to wonder if you'll be feeling a little better about having shared your feelings with her.

 

In a way... that is ALSO 'taking action'. There's something liberating to be had in speaking your peace, possibly another way to cast off acceptance of vicitimization.

[CarryingOn123]

I know that your emotions are running high...but did you consider that if you bring on this AOA lawsuit that your will not only hurt the OM--but the support of your WS child? Just a question...... If he needs to make a second mortgage, he may not be able to support this baby that you do not want to take on. Should the child be punished for the sins of its father?

 

Not intended as an attack--just a question....

 

I have considered all of that, and am answering your question

 

 

Some facts here- There is no existing mortgage as he doesn't own a house, so this will be a first loan. How it works is that he takes a personal loan on the basis of his income, and as a guarantee he has to take an income protection policy, as well as a life and permanent disability policy in favor of the lender. There are a lot of people paying child support while paying off a mortgage- so it isn't an issue.

[CarryingOn123]

I agree with Princessa. This is about revenge. Nothing more. It's not noble. It's not praiseworthy. OP has been hurt and he wants everyone else to hurt, too. It's seriously unhealthy.

 

CarryingOn, I think you need several sessions with a shrink.

 

I also think the lawyers are ripping you off. A judge will see right through this case and your desire to stick it to the guy you feel wronged you and will throw it out of court.

 

You're being played. And your desire for revenge is blinding you to it.

 

I know it is about retribution (or revenge as you put it), no one made it out to be a crusade to save the world to make it look more noble .

 

And the judge will see that it is only my desire to seek retribution, and not an attempt to save the world. But that is the whole point of an AOA. It is for that specific purpose that the legal system as provided for the provision of an AOA suit.

 

So I don't think my lawyers are ripping me off, and I don't think the judge will through it out for the reason that you mentioned

 

 

But more importantly- I have already posted that my SW earns substantially over the six figure mark. So she doesn't have to rely on anyone financially to raise her child.

 

P.S- I will definitely kkep your suggestions for a shrink in mind

[CarryingOn123]

Trying not to inflict damage upon someone's life doesn't mean you're necessarily emotionally involved with that person. That's a no-brainer. If she goes ahead and says something which will result in consequences that she believes to be unfair to the OM, she will pay an enourmous cost for it not because she is emotionally involved with him, but simply because she knows it will affect his life for a long time, will be unfair to him and mostly could be avoided. Anybody bears guilt for going against their own integrity. Forget emotional investment, at the core this is about being true to what you believe is just towards your fellow humans.

 

Let us not trivialize this- She need not go to the court and say "something", all that is needed is the truth (whatever that is). It might hurt him, harm him..whatever- but what right does she have to make the call on what I do about him. It was not her that he wronged- it was me, and moreover she was party to it. .. She doesn't get to decide how I deal with it. what she gets to decide is whether she wants to cooperate or not- which as I had explained earlier carries no more significance that me considering it a gesture favoring me. She already exercised this right of her's when she told me she could not cooperate in my suit. So she can rest happy that she did not cooperate in an action which would hurt a "fellow human being" and need not have any sleepless nights on that account. When she comes to court- it will only be because she was subpoenaed, and as such had no choice over the matter.

[CarryingOn123]

You don't think it will punish her because at this point you are (A) seeking vengeance, (B) are worrying about yourself first, and have no empathy whatsoever towards her feelings. But I hope you will come to realize that having this man pay out a large sum of money over the years will make her feel guilty, so by forcing her to get involved it will punish her regardless of what your intentions are. And by forcing I mean putting her in a position where she has to get involved or else lose you.

 

 

I never told her that she has to cooperate or else lose me.

 

"Punishing" is a connotation for a deliberate act. While I am seeking retribution from the OM, I am not "punishing" the SW. If she suffers any anguish due to this, it is only because of her emotional linkage to the situation (if not him), and not because I am "punishing" her.

 

By putting myself first, I am only dealing with her the same way that she dealt with me. Wasn't she only thinking of herself and putting her first when she embarked on this sordid affair. I don't want to put her feelings first and have her let me down again.

[CarryingOn123]

Then leave her out of the lawsuit. And since you're in a phase where it's all about YOU, how can you even begin to assess how/why she might feel certain things? Until you're strong enough to experience empathy for her feelings I suggest that you shouldn't make any assumptions about her commitment to you.

 

Any AOA suit will have a minimum of 3 parties

1. A betrayed spouse

2. An unfaithful spouse

3. & Atleast one third party who influenced the unfaithful spouse in her actions.

 

These are fundamental requirements of an AOA. And for this reason she cannot be left out of the suit (with or without her cooperation).Asking to leave her out of it is like asking to leave one's spouse out of a divorce petition

[CarryingOn123]

Again, it's not about being worried about his feelings as a lover, it's about his feelings as another human being that you don't want to see go poor if you could prevent it. Keep in mind also that she is partly responsible for the affair. So in some way her not wanting the OM to pay the whole bill for this affair might be a way for her to take part of the responsibility for what she did. And guilt is inevitable if your debts are paid at somebody else's expense. This is very different from being emotionally attached to him.

 

Of course she is supposed to worry about your feelings the most. But you will not suffer major financial loss if this lawsuit doesnt succeed. In his case however, it might affect his life for quite a while.

 

Again, Its not her call on what retribution I need to move on. I wont have any financial losses, but my loses on many other fronts (including, but not limited to self esteem) also have to be considered. It is not him paying the whole bill- she is also paying for her part albeit non-financially. And moreover you are talking about a guy who earns the equivalent of around US$ 70K annually. Its not like this suit will leave him with no money for food or shelter or any of life's other needs. Maybe any plan to make a major investment like a house or something like that would be thrown off the rail, but otherwise he can take the hit ( The lawyers had done a preliminary check on him).

 

 

But are you saying that because she might be distressed that it will affect his life for quite a while, that I should leave it and let it affect my whole life. If that is her thinking, then I dont want to word my reactions to that here

[CarryingOn123]

I can't really argue this because I didn't read enough into the details. But if I had I would. I really feel for this woman. I know what it's like to try to come through to a man who's shut down his capacity for understanding, compassion and empathy.

 

I know where your comments about me, and related feelings are coming from- but believe me, I was not like this before and don't plan to be like this much longer too. I had already posted that even so it is sometimes difficult for me to act like that, because it is so different from my character, that I have to keep reminding myself of everything that happened (and thus re-living all the pain) and telling myself that I need to be strong and do this.

[CarryingOn123]

I must add though that I respect you for fighting him in this way, it shows a strong character. You have the power to destroy him, and if there wouldn't have been repercussions on your SW I would've agreed with what you've planned, but I think it's unfair to her. Like I said earlier, I think you should hold off on making judgments or assumptions about her before you're able to truly put yourself in her shoes and feel what she feels.

 

I am writing my feelings as this is a place that I freely vent. It doesn't mean that it is a final judgment or assumption. I had said that I did not hope to find any answers this weekend, and my only goal was communicating my feelings to her.

 

My immediate goal is only to see the AOA through, and not to make any decisions about her.

 

See.. realistically all you need to shut this out of your life is to walk away from the monitor. My situation is not like that. I have to take care of myseld and my feelings, and not rely upon or trust her to do that for me, or be there for me or make me feel better in the future.

[CarryingOn123]

I did have that meeting and talk with SW yesterday. I am meeting her again later today. Will post an update after that, because a lot of things were left halfway.

 

but it was pretty full on, to say the least

[Ladyjane14]

I did have that meeting and talk with SW yesterday. I am meeting her again later today. Will post an update after that, because a lot of things were left halfway.

 

but it was pretty full on, to say the least

 

Good luck, CO. I hope you get some resolution from your meeting. Disengage from the discussion if it becomes too stressful though. We don't want you landed up in the hospital with another migraine.

[Guest]

I know it is about retribution (or revenge as you put it)

 

Then stop it. It's unhealthy.

"Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die."

--Malachy McCourt

 

And it's ignoble. If you're going to play the greatly wronged injured person, then part of the deal is that you behave impeccably. Being vengeful is a seriously unattractive trait. At this point, I'd suggest to your wife that she reconsider whether you're worth all the grief. I'm not being abusive here; it's just that vengeful people don't seem to me to be the sorts of people I'd want to associate with, let alone marry. I'd certainly counsel her, if she were a friend of mine, to drop thoughts of reconciling .