selfless love is just an illusion

[silktricks]

She made plans. Got pregnant. Was going to be married again...Don't tell me that she didn't know what she was doing. If he hadn't woken up, she probably would have gotten the paper work done so she could divorce and be married.

It's been awhile since I read the whole thread - but as I recall, the order was a little bit different. She had sex with a guy who had been pressing her pretty hard when she was in an ungodly vulnerable position (which is probably what CO is basing his lawsuit on). She got pregnant - not intentionally. Then she pretty much had to make plans. She had (through her own stupidity) got herself into an even worse spot, and now she had a baby to think about as well.

 

I'm not saying that what she did was right. It wasn't. What I am saying, though, is that it was understandable.

 

The OM? I doubt that he was intending to hurt anyone. He was probably encouraging her to get on with her life because he figured (also understandably) that her husband was never going to wake up, or if he did wake, he'd never be OK again. I would bet that a fair number of people were encouraging her to "go on with her life", "he'd want you to be happy". It's very possible that even his own family said those words to her.

 

Again, I'm not saying that what she did was the right thing. Forgiveness is a quality that's missing in our society just as much as loyalty is. I'd like to see more encouragement of it.

[Ladyjane14]

LJ and WWIU, usually I am in complete agreement with the two of you, but not here. I'm not saying that the gentleman who was unconscious wouldn't have my complete and utter sympathy for waking up to a totally different life than he had when he had his accident, but he wasn't the only sufferer. In some ways he had it easier than those who were awake - like his wife.

 

 

I don't doubt that it was a difficult situation for the wife. I'll even go further, and say that I, myself.... would likely have fallen into the same trap. It's not all that hard to imagine.

 

But, I would most definitely have OWNED it. I'd have taken responsibility for my actions, and I wouldn't have expected my husband to forgive me and pick up where we left off.

 

It's a stubborn trait, and I've gotten into trouble over it too many times over the course of my life. But sure as the world is round, I'd have taken it square on the kisser before I'd have backed down and made excuses.

 

That woman had a CHOICE. She might have had a hard time standing over the bed and fluffing pillows.... but NOBODY made her get into the bed with OM instead. She was on a cruise for pete's sake, celebrating her engagement when CO woke up, if memory serves. She was NOWHERE NEAR the pillow-fluffing vicinity.

[newbby]

There's no difference.... when and if CO is ever ready to reconcile. In the meantime, we can't ask him to give up the betrayed spouse's option of ending the relationship if he so desires. I am unconcerned with OM except as he pertains to CO's evaluation of his wife's character. I'm unconcerned with the wife for that matter. She's not the one asking for opinions here at LS.

 

I don't believe that a BS owes a cheater another chance. I think they have the absolute RIGHT to opt out of the marriage if they so choose.

 

And.... I think that acting out on his anger toward the OM interferes with his focus just now. The OM isn't important. The REAL issue is in determining if there is any compatibility left between CO and his wife now that they both know how the other deals with adversity.

 

of course he can end the relationship if he so desires. he has choices. as i said i have not read the entire thread but i suppose that there are a minority who are urging co to look from another perspective. after all, he has suffered a huge trauma and is understandably angry that his life is as it seems at this moment.

they know how the other deals with one specific type of adversity, or actually they know how the other dealt with a specific type of adversity at a particular time. two different adversities.

i think the only way they will be compatible is with forgiveness. of themselves, of each other, and of life.

[Outcast]

Yeah and the genius families decided not to 'disturb' her on the cruise to tell her that her husband had awakened. So it doesn't sound like anyone was all that upset that she was moving on at all.

[newbby]

It's been awhile since I read the whole thread - but as I recall, the order was a little bit different. She had sex with a guy who had been pressing her pretty hard when she was in an ungodly vulnerable position (which is probably what CO is basing his lawsuit on). She got pregnant - not intentionally. Then she pretty much had to make plans. She had (through her own stupidity) got herself into an even worse spot, and now she had a baby to think about as well.

 

 

through her own stupidity eh?

[Ladyjane14]

Forgiveness is a quality that's missing in our society just as much as loyalty is. I'd like to see more encouragement of it.

 

I absolutely agree with that, btw.

 

For CO's purposes, "forgiving" his wife and deciding to recommit himself to her are two separate decisions though. For his own sake, I hope he does forgive her at some point. I think he'll be a happier person for it.

 

But that doesn't mean he necessarily must agree to reconcile the marriage. He can forgive his wife, and still move on if that's his choice. There's nothing wrong with that, IMO.

[silktricks]

through her own stupidity eh?

 

well, that might have been a poor choice of words.

[newbby]

Again, people are judge, jury, and executioner of someone behind her back and unable to defend herself or tell her side of the story. And people are still being so judgmental of others not making wise decisions as though they have made nothing but wise decisions their whole lives.

 

Nobody's that smart. Nobody lives a mistake-free life. And therefore people who expect breaks themselves ought to give other folks a break. Go back and read what the wife told the guy about the OM because you're forgetting.

 

its probably just as important not to be judge of the om either eh?

there could be any reason why this may also not be the entire truth, but another act of fear.

[Ladyjane14]

he has choices. as i said i have not read the entire thread but i suppose that there are a minority who are urging co to look from another perspective.

 

Really Newbby.... all I'm hoping for this guy is that he can preserve his choices for as long as possible. That's all. He's got alot of stuff to sort out.

 

He has a RIGHT to be disappointed and hurt. I think he needs time to feel his own feelings before he worries about anybody else's. His wife made a mistake... that's ON HER. Let her deal with it. She didn't just wake up after a year and a half and find her life changed dramatically. She was conscious the whole time.

[newbby]

Really Newbby.... all I'm hoping for this guy is that he can preserve his choices for as long as possible. That's all. He's got alot of stuff to sort out.

 

He has a RIGHT to be disappointed and hurt. I think he needs time to feel his own feelings before he worries about anybody else's. His wife made a mistake... that's ON HER. Let her deal with it. She didn't just wake up after a year and a half and find her life changed dramatically. She was conscious the whole time.

 

i dont know how "conscious" one is, in the midst of a mental trauma, but i agree that he needs time to work this stuff out.

[CarryingOn123]

Thats a lot of posts to reply to, I will try and reply to all issues raised. If I unintentionally omit something please tell me.

[CarryingOn123]

it is very long, but am i getting this right, the op co, is going to sue the om???.

Am considering that. So you are Right

am i also getting this right that he wants to take over the role of the father of his wifes child?

 

Very much in the wrong. It’s the opposite actually; where I am going to legally separate myself from this child once it has been born. They might need DNA samples etc, and it is better for the child to wait till after birth. The only connection I want to have with this child will be what I would have with any other unrelated child.

 

i have never heard anything quite so outrageous. oh wait i have. its all about the marriage isnt it. omg!! this is crazy. so the fact that his wife chose to have relations with another man, no matter what the circumstances, or how much stress she was under, and granted she was not in the right frame of mind to make ay decisions, does this mean that the om in this situation has to be punished. well! theres always got to be someone to blame doesnt there? what if its just NOBODYS fault. can anybody in this forum concieve of that???????

 

Quite honestly, I can’t conceive that. He went after what he wanted, with no consideration for anyone else. He wasn’t in any mental trauma or stress. He was fully aware of what he was doing. He saw an opportunity and the sleazy bastard moved in.

 

oh yeah, she was at fault too, it takes two to tango. Right. But I cant go ruthlessly against someone you once thought was the love of your life. It is not something you can turn on and off

 

he is angry cause life dealt him a hard blow. understandable. but it isnt always somebody elses fault.

 

It might not always be someone else’s fault. But in this case it is. That slimeball knew everything, since his sister was one of her good friends, and still pursued her to get his rocks off, and my wife “kindly obliged”

 

I'm not saying that the gentleman who was unconscious wouldn't have my complete and utter sympathy for waking up to a totally different life than he had when he had his accident, but he wasn't the only sufferer. In some ways he had it easier than those who were awake - like his wife.

 

It was a tragedy. There were no villains (or villainesses) just people trying to get through misery and going about it the wrong way.

 

JMO

 

I thought you had considered me the villain

The OM? I doubt that he was intending to hurt anyone. He was probably encouraging her to get on with her life because he figured (also understandably) that her husband was never going to wake up, or if he did wake, he'd never be OK again.

 

Of course. He was doing it out of the goodness of his heart, he was just being a good Samaritan. And that he had an axe to grind is only a minor detail that is being hyped up….

 

I would bet that a fair number of people were encouraging her to "go on with her life", "he'd want you to be happy". It's very possible that even his own family said those words to her.

 

For the record, my family never gave up hope on me, and they never encouraged her to find someone else. And at this time I will like to quote something that she had told me much before this accident. I can remember the exact words, but she had said in conversation, that is she died and I found someone else, then she would come back and haunt us. And she was only half joking.

 

why does there only have to be ONE victim? maybe they are ALL victims of circumstance. and they are all human.

 

I don’t see how he was a victim till I woke up. (& for the record my heart id bleeding for the pain I caused him by recovering). HE knew everything all along, and went through with it with his eyes wide open. My wife had told him that she wasn’t in love with him, and that was ok with him- he was getting what he wanted.

 

its probably just as important not to be judge of the om either eh?

there could be any reason why this may also not be the entire truth, but another act of fear.

 

I had no reason to not trust what she told me. I didn’t distrust her before, and I told myself that I shouldn’t now.

 

FYI, the other guy called my bro about a month back asking to meet/speak to me. I asked my bro to pass a message that included “sun doesn’t shine”

[CarryingOn123]

You're tortured over the treatment that you received from your wife (aka 'true love'), and its extraordinarily understandable. SHE is the only that you're truly torn-up over.

 

You're expending energy on 'revenge' towards the OM. I personally wouldn't waste my time, and in the 'end' it doesn't matter if you make him squirm or not. You may hit him financially, but I doubt that it will make you feel any better about things. Maybe for a just a 'moment', but reality will come crashing back.

 

And.... I think that acting out on his anger toward the OM interferes with his focus just now. The OM isn't important.

 

It is not interfering with my focus- not doing anything is distracting me from gaining focus.

[CarryingOn123]

Yeah and the genius families decided not to 'disturb' her on the cruise to tell her that her husband had awakened. So it doesn't sound like anyone was all that upset that she was moving on at all.

 

Well, my family did what they did with my best interest at heart. They didn’t want me to have a shock so soon, they decided to tell me in parts. And what good is it that they were upset that she was moving on from me, They were disappointed but were civilized about it. And they didn’t tell her family immediately for the reason that it might filter down to her. All this was not the default decision, and they actually brainstormed a lot about this and it was my brothers decision based on the doctor’s advice that I needed to be protected from any type of stress.

[CarryingOn123]

what if marriage doesnt mean the be all and end all of life???

 

Call me primitive, but I (still) feel that it is as far as a romantic relationship goes. I feel it is a decision for life. But if my wife feels like you, then our marriage ending may not be such a big thing after all for her. But since, that is not what she said, I doubt that even she feels this way.

 

my goodness, a little bit of love, compassion, and forgiveness just doesnt seem to make any sense if its not down on f***ing paper!!! i doubt most people even understand it.

 

??????????? you've lost me there...

[CarryingOn123]

I really do understand your anger. I wouldn't bother to spit on the OW who pissed with my marriage IF SHE WERE ON FIRE!

And I have less cause for ill-will than you do, come to that.

 

But unless your wife is weak-minded, no amount of pursuit in the world could have taken her FREE WILL from her. And frankly.... if she IS weak-minded, you need a stronger woman. I don't know you personally, but you read like a strong-willed man. You'll need a woman of equal mettle, or you'll end up walking all over her.

 

LJ, I had told you earlier. I am not just blaming the other guy. I’ve replied that she has a more significant responsibility. She had to be responsible to our marriage and relationship, while he had to be responsible to the codes of simple decency and consideration.

[CarryingOn123]

So ofcourse it's messed him up royally...The one person he felt he could trust and lean on, wasn't there at all. I don't know wtf went through her mind, but her actions really said alot.

 

True......

[CarryingOn123]

It's been awhile since I read the whole thread - but as I recall, the order was a little bit different. She had sex with a guy who had been pressing her pretty hard when she was in an ungodly vulnerable position (which is probably what CO is basing his lawsuit on). She got pregnant - not intentionally. Then she pretty much had to make plans. She had (through her own stupidity) got herself into an even worse spot, and now she had a baby to think about as well.

.

 

 

All I am saying is, her ACTIONS showed she went on with her life...........Noone can deny that. She made plans. Got pregnant. Was going to be married again...Don't tell me that she didn't know what she was doing. If he hadn't woken up, she probably would have gotten the paper work done so she could divorce and be married.

And this was all done in her 'stressed out' moments?

 

C'mon. This went on for MONTHS.

How can it be a lapse in judgement when there's such a directed sequence of events?

 

That is the whole point here LJ, I’ve tried to convey it a dozen times here, but you’ve nailed it on the head. I would have been hurt, but I think I could have forgiven a one night stand as a lapse in judgment or weakness. But this was a systematic way of life for over 6 months- to me it is more of selfishness and inconsiderateness and possibly even absence of love.

[CarryingOn123]

 

Basically, you're saying she was holding a lottery ticket and should have expected to win.

 

I don’t know about you, but if it were me holding a lottery ticket, I won’t throw it away at least till after the draw results were known. Would you?

[CarryingOn123]

I just wonder what his wife did for help. Did she seek counselling to help her cope? What did her immediate family do to support her? His family reached out to her but it seemed she went on her own way.

Yep, She did all that. She had a counselor, went to support groups, prayer groups, etc, with my family and alone. Her family was there with her as much as they could (her mother and brother live overseas). They were all there after the accident. Her brother went back after a little more than a week, but has since visited her twice, & her mother stayed with her to help her for about 3 months before she went back. My family was always there for everything, as they live close by.

 

It's an awful long time to go sit by beds. Have you done it? Sat for hours and watched a virtually lifeless body? It's not like visiting a sick person who can at least look at you. Christopher Reeve was unconscious for maybe a week. He awoke and could still speak and was the same guy but couldn't move.

COs wife had no idea how he'd be when he woke up. If he woke up.

 

 

 

well it seems she never actually lost love for co, and now that he is alive and well she is desperate to go back to the way things were

 

Makes you wonder what she would have done if I woke up, but was paralyzed or severely disabled in some other way. How is it surprising that she wants everything to go back to how it was, now that it is “more convenient”

[CarryingOn123]

Because you're not 'exploring' a relationship with D and you don't speak of her in that 'way'.

 

That is because I don’t think I am ready for a relationship yet,(that is the last thing on my mind now), and I respect her too much to consider her as a rebound fling.

[CarryingOn123]

i suppose she may be scared. feeling guilty. but more than anything absolutely terrified that she has blown it with co. and hasnt anyone ever loved somebody and in retrospect realised it was not true love? or feelings have changed? or feelings were imagined because of a state of mind?

In that same vein, is it so unimaginable to find that in the light of all this that I find that my feelings seem to have changed.

[CarryingOn123]

There was some talk earlier about her "corroborating" CO's case. In actuality, I think that would say something bad about her character... more so than if she objected to it. In my mind, it would cement the idea that she used this OM and tossed him away. Quite frankly, I can't respect a person who could do that to somebody else.

 

I realize what you are saying, and I had thought about that myself. I understand it is a catch 22 situation for her

 

 

But…

 

That woman had a CHOICE. She might have had a hard time standing over the bed and fluffing pillows.... but NOBODY made her get into the bed with OM instead.

 

He has a RIGHT to be disappointed and hurt. I think he needs time to feel his own feelings before he worries about anybody else's. His wife made a mistake... that's ON HER. Let her deal with it. She didn't just wake up after a year and a half and find her life changed dramatically. She was conscious the whole time.

 

That is how I think of it so I can detach myself- “Let her deal with it”

[CarryingOn123]

i think the only way they will be compatible is with forgiveness. of themselves, of each other, and of life.

I seem to be missing something here. What does she need to forgive me for (or for what do I need to seek forgiveness from her?)

[CarryingOn123]

Again, I'm not saying that what she did was the right thing. Forgiveness is a quality that's missing in our society just as much as loyalty is. I'd like to see more encouragement of it.

I know how you feel about me, as you’ve already posted that you’ve found me to be an unforgiving and stubborn young man, but how are you encouraging this other quality that is missing from our society.

For CO's purposes, "forgiving" his wife and deciding to recommit himself to her are two separate decisions though. For his own sake, I hope he does forgive her at some point. I think he'll be a happier person for it.

 

But that doesn't mean he necessarily must agree to reconcile the marriage. He can forgive his wife, and still move on if that's his choice. There's nothing wrong with that, IMO.

My thoughts exactly. Both are different issues.

 

 

That woman had a CHOICE. She might have had a hard time standing over the bed and fluffing pillows.... but NOBODY made her get into the bed with OM instead. She was on a cruise for pete's sake, celebrating her engagement when CO woke up, if memory serves. She was NOWHERE NEAR the pillow-fluffing vicinity.

 

I don’t care if she was not there fluffing my pillows, people were paid to do that. I don’t care if she was on a cruise, or bungee jumping, or on a safari. I didn’t need her to sit by my side looking at me. I just needed her to be there for me, whatever her geographical location. And she was not..