selfless love is just an illusion

[CarryingOn123]

Guestess, I know that CO123's thread is long, but for you to understand exactly what is going on, go back if you can and take the time over the next bunch of days to read his thread from the start.

 

This man is honestly trying to figure out things and going through a living hell while doing it.

You said that correctly about what my life is..

[CarryingOn123]

You said that correctly about what my life is..

i also think that trying to judge your wifes love for you by her willingness to hurt the other man is plain wrong. things just dont work that way.

you cannot perhaps have a guarantee of your wifes love for you in any of the ways you are seeking to. not by how long she stayed by your hospital bed, not by how much she agrees to destruction of a mans career.

 

That is a bit melodramatic. You are painting a picture of a tired wife staying by her husband's bedside.. That was not the situation, I was cared ofr professionally, and my family would be visiting me while continuing living the other parts of their lives. and about the guy's career, we already covered that. My SW's love was not measured by the amount of time she spent by my bedside, but by her ability to stay true to me, wherever she was.

 

There are no guarantees for anything. Outcast, previously suggested that if I find someone else, then I should send her to bootcamp, and stop talking to her for a year, etc to test her out. Well, I dont think like that. I generally give people the benefit of doubt- till they prove otherwise. SW has shown that. not to say someonelse wont, but there is still the benefit of doubt in that case.

[whichwayisup]

You said that correctly about what my life is..

I know and it sucks. Big time. Wish it wasn't a living hell for you.

 

Hopefully in time when things get sorted out, you can move past it all and find some peace. I am glad you found LS because you've touched many people with your life.

 

Can I ask? Not sure where you live, in the States or Canada, east/west coast, but a little suggestion depending where you are, if you get hit with a bad winter, around the time the clocks chance (god I hate that!) you might want to invest in a SAD light. It helps with mild depression and is good for those days it's gray out and when it gets darker earlier.

[CarryingOn123]

you cannot change what has happened. you either accept it in totality or you have problems.

 

I cannot change what happened. I am trying to accept the reality of our relationship, rather that be blinded by fools gold. But once I have accpted everything, do you think that will solve all my problems?

[CarryingOn123]

I know and it sucks. Big time. Wish it wasn't a living hell for you.

 

Hopefully in time when things get sorted out, you can move past it all and find some peace. I am glad you found LS because you've touched many people with your life.

 

Can I ask? Not sure where you live, in the States or Canada, east/west coast, but a little suggestion depending where you are, if you get hit with a bad winter, around the time the clocks chance (god I hate that!) you might want to invest in a SAD light. It helps with mild depression and is good for those days it's gray out and when it gets darker earlier.

Oh, I live in almost the other side of the world :-). My way of dealing with depression is to get busy with something else :-)

[whichwayisup]

You're a lucky duck then! So you don't get those dreaded awful long winters we get in Eastern Canada.......

[CarryingOn123]

i think what has happened is you have lost your trust. not just in her but in life. you are now seeking to test situations in ways that are just too black and white to be really true.

with regards your wife, you have two options. you either take a leap of faith, or you choose out of fear.

 

You are right that I have lost my trust in her, but you are wrong about trust in life. I am thankful for the wonderful human beings I am lucky to have around me which helped me not to make a sweeping assuption of life. I see life not in distrust, but with a lot of possibilities, which I need to navigate to create a better life.

 

You are right that now I tend to test situations in many ways, but thats what people do once they have been let down in the most devastating manner.

 

Taking a leap of faith initially is commendable, quite possibly the best way to go. but once you have been let down by that person, taking another blind leap of faith is foolhardy. Now do you understand why I push to test situations?

[CarryingOn123]

You're a lucky duck then! So you don't get those dreaded awful long winters we get in Eastern Canada.......

We have chilly winters, no snow, and certainly nothing like Canada!

[CarryingOn123]

Raising another mans baby will certainly be complicated. for you, for him, for her, for the child, for any other children. this is not a situation to be taken lightly. one thing though is certain, you simply cannot do this if you are going to also complicate things further with your anger at the other man.

 

I dont want to raise this man's baby, atleast not as it's father anyway. I am not planning to keep this anger I have against him forever, that is why I am trying ways for me to get a sense of restitution and to get over it. Once I think I have done something about it, then I can let it go. I dont want any involvement of this man in my life anymore.. Does that make the situation more complicated than it is- sure it does. But that is not my problem- to make life easier for the people who put us in this mess in the first place.

[CarryingOn123]

... and its not often that people really act in deliberately harmful ways.

 

But it is pretty common for people to act in callous manner with no consideration for others. Pretty common for people to grab whatever they can without thought for those that they grab it from. It is pretty common for people to take advantage of someone elses misfortune. It is pretty common for people to act like vultures waiting for a man to die so that they can feed off his body.

 

Not only is this pretty common, it seems to be widely accepted to- Just read your own post again to see if this is true, and also a lot of other posts in this thread. Civilisation is really taking us forward these days!...

[CarryingOn123]

Another update

 

SW called me to say that her counsellor suggested that it might be a good idea to talk to her together. To which I asked her "what did you tell.....(my lawyer friend)? ". She said that she didn't get back to him. I told her to decide what she wants first and then we will talk about other things. She was going on about that "we can work through this together" and stuff like that. I said "well you have the chance to work through this with me.. all you need to do is decide if that is what you want.."

[CarryingOn123]

To tell you the truth I am angry at her

 

1. trying to defend him to me. It is a different matter that she would have feelings to help a case against him, as she was more than an equal offender in this case. But for her to try and make it out as if he didn't do anything. That made me angry, and hence my curtness to her.

 

2. How she is still trying to control my life and me. This is say because of how she tried all that drama with D. I want her to realise that she is not in control of my life, and for her to stop trying to do that. She doesn't have any right to do that (she is after all still defending the other guy against me...she is not worried about how much hurt he caused me, she is worried about how it will hurt him)

[whichwayisup]

(she is after all still defending the other guy against me...she is not worried about how much hurt he caused me, she is worried about how it will hurt him)

 

Yes, and this says alot, doesn't it? The thing that galls me most is how SW is expecting YOU to do alot of bending, for her. That's pure bullcrap if you ask me.

 

I don't believe right now going together to see someone will help you. Until YOU decide (not her) what you want, things are as they are. She has to stop pushing you until you're ready. And, she has to decide once and for all, what she wants. She cannot "have" the OM in her life, and still patch things up with you. She's defending him, more than you. She says one thing, yet does another....Actions speak louder than words, yet sometimes words scream.

[CarryingOn123]

she has to decide once and for all, what she wants. She cannot "have" the OM in her life, and still patch things up with you. She's defending him, more than you. She says one thing, yet does another....Actions speak louder than words, yet sometimes words scream.

 

She cant have both of us in her life, no whatever form. I refuse to accept him as part of my life. I refuse to let this affair slap me in the face for the rest of my life... You are right, she says something and does something else. Thats why her words have lost their meaning to me, they are just plain words.... she says all the right words, but still acts differently.

[BenThereDunThat]

Long-time reader, first-time poster (to this thread). CO123 - I think you are moving in the right direction. Hopefully soon you will be able to put her and the OM behind you.

 

I was giving her the benefit of the doubt up until she started defending HIM and showing how manipulative she can be.

 

Were I lucky enough to marry the man of my dreams, you better believe I would not give up on him while he was in a coma. And most certainly not within a year's time!!!

 

And she was on a CRUISE with him when you woke up?? WTF???!!!

 

I'm no longer buying her 'he was my friend, I was lonely, blah, blah, blah.

 

Hang in there, you have a very grounded outlook, and I know you'll come through this and be happier than you ever were before.

[Bufzookie]

I have to agree with Benthere..... I really don't buy her story either. No way would I be able to move on that quickly.....and get engaged to someone just to see if I could "love him back". I think .... she was lonley. Didn't think about her actions. It is quite typical for people to do that when they are sad, stressed, feeling hopeless. Finding comfort somewhere else was probably her out let and just got cought up in the "new relationship" jitters! Wanted to move on and just be happy again.

 

There are so many possibilities or answers!! That is what sucks about life..... its unpredictable and you can never read anyones mind!!! It will take time for you to really know what path you really want to take but don't let anyone influence what you feel is right...in your heart!!

 

Oh.....I didn't mean be by yourself ....like leave everyone. I mean... take time to be alone at home.... to just think and reflect!! OR..... write down how you feel in a notebook. Just for yourself so you can really vent and let out emotion. I'm only making suggestions so you can feel better.... as I said before....i'm sucked into this....when your heartbroken or sad.....So am I when I read your post!!!!... Big hug!! One day at a time!!

:bunny: :bunny:

[LakesideDream]

CarryingOn123, I really don't get it. You situation has gone from bad to silly. How can your cheating wife expect you to "accept" the man she created a child with when you were helpless? Why, How.. can she defend him?

 

Personally I wish you would have had the presense of mind to collect that video tape and have it copied. One for each member of her family (and his) and one for each of her "friends".. with a few left over for the court.

 

You are much more tolerant than I.

 

Words have meaning, and actions have consequences. It's time someone brings it home to her.

[CarryingOn123]

She called me again a while ago. She asked to come over and speak to me in person. I told her that nothing is going to change if we talk in person, that I have already told her what I want and that the ball is in her court to do whatever she wants. She was insisting that we should talk about it in person, finally I told her OK- if she brings the tape of her and the other guy over with her and we watch it together before talking. She was stunned, and said "... please be dont like that...". I was curt, and said she had all the information to act, and she could do whatever she wants based on the options that I had given her and that I am not taking any options from her.

 

I was really curt to her, I cant really believe the anger that was spilling from me- I didn't call her any names or such, but still.... Afterwards I was feeling bad because this was the first time ever that I have spoken to her like that. Till now I've never raised my voice to her, any arguments that we had were always reasoned out..... I've never been this person, and I dont want to be that now... I lost control of myself- the anger just overwhelmed me.

[Ladyjane14]

Asking you to meet with her in person, and asking you to meet with her IC... are both maneuvers designed to put you in a position where you might be more easily swayed to her way of thinking. I can't really blame her for that; it seems like such a natural line of thought. It's just harder for somebody to reject you when you're standing right in front of them and looking sincere. So, I doubt she's engaged in a well-planned or deliberate manipulation here.

 

Still, I don't think you're ready for all that. You 'bit her head off' for the first time ever in response to it, which is out of character for you. That would indicate that you're feeling pressured and backed into a corner.

 

Don't feel bad about saying 'no' to meeting with her or with her IC. You have to prioritize your own health and emotional welfare right now. What's more, you're letting her know up front that you're on your own time-table, and can't be budged from it. That's fair, because it's honest.

 

One of the reasons why I was so opposed to your law suit against OM is just what you see before you, it's beginning to provoke decisions. It closes the door on some of your choices.

 

There's no way that a decent person could walk away from their own responsibility in an affair that they themselves willingly engaged in, and let the other guy take the complete fall. There were TWO people making choices there.... your wife was making choices too. She knows it.

 

Asking her to support your case against OM is tantamount to asking her to claim pure innocence. How can she "own" her mistakes, and still be an innocent victim at the same time? Sure, it might make it easier for you to forgive her if you could see her that way... but is it THE TRUTH of what happened?

 

Say... you've got two people who rob a candy store. They both get caught, and one points the finger at the other saying, "he made me do it". Do you respect that person? Do you 'buy into' her story? Or do you secretly believe that she knew what she was doing all along, and is just saving her own ass?

 

Honestly CO, if you REALLY feel the need to punish the person who has wronged you... why punish only one of them? Why not punish them both? It's as easy as filing for divorce and never seeing or speaking to your SW again. Then you can go ahead and move forward with your 'alienation of affection' case against OM in good conscience.

 

What you're doing right now is pulling your SW in two directions. You're asking her to prove herself by turning her back on her own responsibility in what she's done. You are, in essence, forcing her hand... because there is NO WAY that she can pick up the pieces of her tattered honor without walking away from you. You're forcing her to choose between what she owes to you and what she owes to herself.

 

She may have made a weak-assed attempt at finger-pointing earlier on. But her bluff has been called. Now, she's either got to admit that she made mistakes and take responsibility for them... or she's got to 'roll-over' on her partner in crime. This is a NO WIN. Because if she doesn't help you in your case, you dump her now. And if she does... you'll probably end up dumping her later on... because she will have become a person of lesser integrity, who blames others for her own mistakes.

[Roo]

CO....

 

gotta tell you I'm actually happy to see the anger coming out of you... this is what you need to do to really heal to really forgive you really need to feel it thru, as I said before all this will come in time, sooner or later as you get stronger you'll allow yourself to feel more and more of it and process mroe and more of it...

 

as for your wife... so sad seriously, she's starting to make me NOT feel any empathy for her...

 

I can understand her tenativeness to help with your case after all if THEY have a child together if HE Has not money he'll not be able to help her support the child and if THEY have a child together THEY should have as good a relationship as possible (not that they both shouldn't have thought of these things before getting into the mess that htey did... but again the CHILD is still the innocent here and your suit against HIM like it or not would affect the child)

 

That being said...

 

sking you to meet with her in person, and asking you to meet with her IC... are both maneuvers designed to put you in a position where you might be more easily swayed to her way of thinking. I can't really blame her for that; it seems like such a natural line of thought. It's just harder for somebody to reject you when you're standing right in front of them and looking sincere. So, I doubt she's engaged in a well-planned or deliberate manipulation here.

 

I totally agree and I think she needs to accept the consequences of her actions which are... she is not making decisions... YOU ARE!! she gets to wait and wait and wait some more while YOU decide what YOU want, afterall thats what she did while you were in your coma right? SHE made all these decisions on HER own for HER self...

 

What you're doing right now is pulling your SW in two directions. You're asking her to prove herself by turning her back on her own responsibility in what she's done. You are, in essence, forcing her hand... because there is NO WAY that she can pick up the pieces of her tattered honor without walking away from you. You're forcing her to choose between what she owes to you and what she owes to herself.

 

She may have made a weak-assed attempt at finger-pointing earlier on. But her bluff has been called. Now, she's either got to admit that she made mistakes and take responsibility for them... or she's got to 'roll-over' on her partner in crime. This is a NO WIN. Because if she doesn't help you in your case, you dump her now. And if she does... you'll probably end up dumping her later on... because she will have become a person of lesser integrity, who blames others for her own mistakes.

 

I totally agree here as well in the end although I understand your AOA case I dont think it's fair to ask of her unless you plan to take her back and help her raise the child or honestly you are punishing the innocent child there is no way she could move against the father of the child in this manner and NOT have it adversely effect the child.

[Sup]

Another update

 

SW called me to say that her counsellor suggested that it might be a good idea to talk to her together. To which I asked her "what did you tell.....(my lawyer friend)? ". She said that she didn't get back to him. I told her to decide what she wants first and then we will talk about other things. She was going on about that "we can work through this together" and stuff like that. I said "well you have the chance to work through this with me.. all you need to do is decide if that is what you want.."

 

Almost sounds like a setup if you ask me.

[Sup]

She called me again a while ago. She asked to come over and speak to me in person. I told her that nothing is going to change if we talk in person, that I have already told her what I want and that the ball is in her court to do whatever she wants. She was insisting that we should talk about it in person, finally I told her OK- if she brings the tape of her and the other guy over with her and we watch it together before talking. She was stunned, and said "... please be dont like that...". I was curt, and said she had all the information to act, and she could do whatever she wants based on the options that I had given her and that I am not taking any options from her.

 

I was really curt to her, I cant really believe the anger that was spilling from me- I didn't call her any names or such, but still.... Afterwards I was feeling bad because this was the first time ever that I have spoken to her like that. Till now I've never raised my voice to her, any arguments that we had were always reasoned out..... I've never been this person, and I dont want to be that now... I lost control of myself- the anger just overwhelmed me.

 

You have EVERY right to be angry! To me, it looks like they're continuing their affair, ie: She defends OM, shes very controling toward you, both are signs of an affair in progress.

[Sup]

Asking you to meet with her in person, and asking you to meet with her IC... are both maneuvers designed to put you in a position where you might be more easily swayed to her way of thinking. I can't really blame her for that; it seems like such a natural line of thought. It's just harder for somebody to reject you when you're standing right in front of them and looking sincere. So, I doubt she's engaged in a well-planned or deliberate manipulation here.

 

Still, I don't think you're ready for all that. You 'bit her head off' for the first time ever in response to it, which is out of character for you. That would indicate that you're feeling pressured and backed into a corner.

 

Don't feel bad about saying 'no' to meeting with her or with her IC. You have to prioritize your own health and emotional welfare right now. What's more, you're letting her know up front that you're on your own time-table, and can't be budged from it. That's fair, because it's honest.

 

One of the reasons why I was so opposed to your law suit against OM is just what you see before you, it's beginning to provoke decisions. It closes the door on some of your choices.

 

There's no way that a decent person could walk away from their own responsibility in an affair that they themselves willingly engaged in, and let the other guy take the complete fall. There were TWO people making choices there.... your wife was making choices too. She knows it.

 

Asking her to support your case against OM is tantamount to asking her to claim pure innocence. How can she "own" her mistakes, and still be an innocent victim at the same time? Sure, it might make it easier for you to forgive her if you could see her that way... but is it THE TRUTH of what happened?

 

Say... you've got two people who rob a candy store. They both get caught, and one points the finger at the other saying, "he made me do it". Do you respect that person? Do you 'buy into' her story? Or do you secretly believe that she knew what she was doing all along, and is just saving her own ass?

 

Honestly CO, if you REALLY feel the need to punish the person who has wronged you... why punish only one of them? Why not punish them both? It's as easy as filing for divorce and never seeing or speaking to your SW again. Then you can go ahead and move forward with your 'alienation of affection' case against OM in good conscience.

 

What you're doing right now is pulling your SW in two directions. You're asking her to prove herself by turning her back on her own responsibility in what she's done. You are, in essence, forcing her hand... because there is NO WAY that she can pick up the pieces of her tattered honor without walking away from you. You're forcing her to choose between what she owes to you and what she owes to herself.

 

She may have made a weak-assed attempt at finger-pointing earlier on. But her bluff has been called. Now, she's either got to admit that she made mistakes and take responsibility for them... or she's got to 'roll-over' on her partner in crime. This is a NO WIN. Because if she doesn't help you in your case, you dump her now. And if she does... you'll probably end up dumping her later on... because she will have become a person of lesser integrity, who blames others for her own mistakes.

 

But, for CO123 it will be a WIN WIN situation, I'm not sure if he is trying to divide and conquer them both at the same time. But, at the same time it's revealing HER true character, whether she really is remorseful or not, he could be basing his decisions on what to do from what happens here, from her actions, or just making sure he IS making the right decision, like he mentioned in a earlier post.

[Ladyjane14]

But, for CO123 it will be a WIN WIN situation....

 

How do you figure?

He either forces her to defend her former lover or to abandon her own responsibility in making decisions that led to the affair. There's nothing to "win" here.

 

The option to walk away has been his from the moment he was informed of the adultery. It's been with him all this time. He doesn't need to give her more rope to hang herself with. It's not necessary at this point for him to have any more evidence than he already has.

 

at the same time it's revealing HER true character, whether she really is remorseful or not...

 

I completely disagree that refusal to support the AOA case is indicative of lack of remorse, btw. It seems to me that making herself out to be an innocent victim would be more telling about her character or lack thereof.

[Sup]

How do you figure?

He either forces her to defend her former lover or to abandon her own responsibility in making decisions that led to the affair. There's nothing to "win" here.

 

The option to walk away has been his from the moment he was informed of the adultery. It's been with him all this time. He doesn't need to give her more rope to hang herself with. It's not necessary at this point for him to have any more evidence than he already has.

 

 

 

I completely disagree that refusal to support the AOA case is indicative of lack of remorse, btw. It seems to me that making herself out to be an innocent victim would be more telling about her character or lack thereof.

 

It's almost like they may be turned against each other, to have conflict amongst themselves, It's hard to explain. But, that's what it looks like to me, even if that's not what CO123 is trying to do.