selfless love is just an illusion

[CarryingOn123]

Hi,

 

To the best of my understanding, for the AOA- she doesnt have to deny any responsibility for her affair , but just acknowledge his part. It is really not necessary that she cooperates as there is sufficient cause even otherwise (afterall it is very rare that a spouse will support an AOA suit). She can still be called to testify. So her cooperation is not really necessary, I just wanted her to choose me in an impossible situation. but clearly she hasn't.

[CarryingOn123]

I didnt "bite her head off" because she asked me to meet her counsellor. I was angry at her for trying to help him and defending him over me. Its just the timing of my comment that made you think that it was her suggestion that was the cause of my outburst, while it really wasnt.

 

Like I said in my previous post she doesn't need to claim to be an innocent party. So she doesn't have to compromise her intergrity. I think that all that they are trying to prove is that we had a proper solid marriage before this guy came along. Both of them can be equally responsible, it doesn't matter for the case. I think it is the laws way of putting responsibilty on home wreakers who have nothing to lose otherwise, while the spouse stands to lose the marriage, etc.

[CarryingOn123]

Money in the form of child support is not an issue for her. At 28, she is a VP in a multinational firm, and she earns through her nose. That is not an issue. The child is not going to suffer financially because of this.

 

I didn't want to tell her something like "if you support me on this, I will take you back" because, if she were to do it, I wanted her to do it for me without getting anything in return. I wanted to see if she will do that. It is easier to do stuff expecting positive outcomes.

 

Like You guys have said, this is beginning to provoke decisions and might start to close some of mu options- but then I get to see what those options really were also.

[CarryingOn123]

Yesterday, I was high on adrenalin, I was angry, I was spewing... Today, I am just spent... I called my lawyer and asked him to file the suit on moday, with or without SW's cooperation.

 

Another thing that I am going to do this weekend is actually talk to my family about all this. I am going to ask them for guidance. I have not done that till now, and they didn't try to influence me in any way. I think that SW is a bit miffed at them because the are not doing more to help her reconcile with me. I am going to lay all the cards on the table and ask my bro & sis for advice.I need their help now. D is not relly the person to turn to for advice in this case, and so I wont. Probably will speak to my mon and dad on phone too. if the need be, they can come down too.

[silktricks]

If you haven't yelled at her before this for what happened, I have to ask, "What the hell is wrong with you?" Being rational works fine for some things, like - oh - balancing a checkbook, but adultery is not a rational situation. Pretending it is by being oh so thoughtful will only keep you from really resolving your issues. You're angry aren't you? Of course you are!! Then show it. Talking reasonably does not express pain, it expresses reason. Pain isn't reason, it comes from a totally different place. If the SW can't handle it, then she can't. That's not exactly your problem, is it?

 

Honestly, a lot of my sympathy for your wife went out the window when she hesitated in helping you in your suit. I don't actually agree with the suit, because it seems like it will probably make things more difficult for you, but it is your choice. If your wife really wants to make things right with you, then she needs to be on your side 100%.

[In Like Flynn]

"At 28, she is a VP in a multinational firm,"

 

It makes one wonder how she explains this to her co-workers. They had to know of you being in the hospital in a coma, then she becomes pregnant, not sure if they know its by soneone other than her husband, if not they must be constantly congradulating her etc!!!! What a mess!! Yet the Other Man can just sit back, zip his pants up, and continue on his merry way probably expecting your marriage to crumble and he can sweep back in again.

[Ladyjane14]

Like I said in my previous post she doesn't need to claim to be an innocent party. So she doesn't have to compromise her intergrity. I think that all that they are trying to prove is that we had a proper solid marriage before this guy came along. Both of them can be equally responsible, it doesn't matter for the case. I think it is the laws way of putting responsibilty on home wreakers who have nothing to lose otherwise, while the spouse stands to lose the marriage, etc.

 

Don't get me wrong... I'm all for "putting responsibility on homewreckers". That's not the problem I have with your expectations on going ahead with the AOA suit. In actuality, I wouldn't mind seeing more laws on the books supporting this.

 

My concern is that I believe it does show a lack of integrity to engage in an affair and then to willingly help prosecute your affair partner in such a suit. If your SW is subpoenaed and REQUIRED to "tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth"..... fine and dandy. If she volunteers, that's another ballgame.

 

You posted earlier: "I just wanted her to choose me in an impossible situation". Truly, that's what you're asking.... the impossible. Because testifying voluntarily does make her into a monster. Someone who used another person to assuage her pain, and then not only tossed him aside... but took part in an action designed to enact revenge against him.

 

I can't reiterate enough to you that I am NOT condoning infidelity, or seeking to protect the OM from retribution. But I think it's WRONG if you expect your wife to voluntarily help you do it in ANY way.

[CarryingOn123]

If you haven't yelled at her before this for what happened, I have to ask, "What the hell is wrong with you?" Being rational works fine for some things, like - oh - balancing a checkbook, but adultery is not a rational situation. Pretending it is by being oh so thoughtful will only keep you from really resolving your issues. You're angry aren't you? Of course you are!! Then show it. Talking reasonably does not express pain, it expresses reason. Pain isn't reason, it comes from a totally different place. If the SW can't handle it, then she can't. That's not exactly your problem, is it?

 

Honestly, a lot of my sympathy for your wife went out the window when she hesitated in helping you in your suit. I don't actually agree with the suit, because it seems like it will probably make things more difficult for you, but it is your choice. If your wife really wants to make things right with you, then she needs to be on your side 100%.

As I had said earlier, this was the first time ever that I spoke to her like that. Even Now I didn't yell, I was just curt. While it felt good in some ways to express the anger and resentment, it also felt bad in many ways...because I wanted to be better than that...

 

 

& u are right in that about being there for me. That is what I would have wanted her to do. To be there for me 100%, no matter what, no matter how impossible the situation, no matter if she agrees with it or not, just simply because I needed it.

[CarryingOn123]

Don't get me wrong... I'm all for "putting responsibility on homewreckers". That's not the problem I have with your expectations on going ahead with the AOA suit. In actuality, I wouldn't mind seeing more laws on the books supporting this.

 

My concern is that I believe it does show a lack of integrity to engage in an affair and then to willingly help prosecute your affair partner in such a suit. If your SW is subpoenaed and REQUIRED to "tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth"..... fine and dandy. If she volunteers, that's another ballgame.

 

You posted earlier: "I just wanted her to choose me in an impossible situation". Truly, that's what you're asking.... the impossible. Because testifying voluntarily does make her into a monster. Someone who used another person to assuage her pain, and then not only tossed him aside... but took part in an action designed to enact revenge against him.

 

I can't reiterate enough to you that I am NOT condoning infidelity, or seeking to protect the OM from retribution. But I think it's WRONG if you expect your wife to voluntarily help you do it in ANY way.

becoming a crown's witness (for want of a better word) doesn't mean you are an innocent party. Doesn't absolve you from your responsibilities. what you are saying is that she shouldn't be a dobber, & that she should protect her co-culprits

 

And I dont expect anything from her anymore, frankly I dont know what to expect anymore. Its like she is a new person to me, not the person that I fell in love with, not the person I married, Not the person I would have gladly given up my life for...

[Ladyjane14]

becoming a crown's witness (for want of a better word) doesn't mean you are an innocent party. Doesn't absolve you from your responsibilities. what you are saying is that she shouldn't be a dobber, & that she should protect her co-culprits

 

And I dont expect anything from her anymore, frankly I dont know what to expect anymore. Its like she is a new person to me, not the person that I fell in love with, not the person I married, Not the person I would have gladly given up my life for...

 

 

You weren't a little disappointed that she didn't jump right on board?

Because just a few minutes ago you posted:

& u are right in that about being there for me. That is what I would have wanted her to do. To be there for me 100%, no matter what, no matter how impossible the situation, no matter if she agrees with it or not, just simply because I needed it.

 

 

I think you're on to something btw, in talking it over with your family members.

They're familiar with all the principle players in a way that we aren't.

 

I'm still interested in why you might want to punish the one guilty party, but not the other. (????)

[whichwayisup]

Yesterday, I was high on adrenalin, I was angry, I was spewing... Today, I am just spent... I called my lawyer and asked him to file the suit on moday, with or without SW's cooperation.

 

Another thing that I am going to do this weekend is actually talk to my family about all this. I am going to ask them for guidance. I have not done that till now, and they didn't try to influence me in any way. I think that SW is a bit miffed at them because the are not doing more to help her reconcile with me. I am going to lay all the cards on the table and ask my bro & sis for advice.I need their help now. D is not relly the person to turn to for advice in this case, and so I wont. Probably will speak to my mon and dad on phone too. if the need be, they can come down too

 

Definately on the right path here, talking to your family. D is a friend and can support you through some things, and you're right, this stuff is TOO much, and it's too personal for her. Also, it's your business, so it's best to keep that in your immediate family.

[CarryingOn123]

You weren't a little disappointed that she didn't jump right on board?

Because just a few minutes ago you posted:

 

 

 

I think you're on to something btw, in talking it over with your family members.

They're familiar with all the principle players in a way that we aren't.

 

I'm still interested in why you might want to punish the one guilty party, but not the other. (????)

I was disappointed. I've already said that. What I meant was I am not sure of her actions now.

 

I am not just punishing one guy. Atleast I dont see it that way...Afterall I signed the divorce papers and left it for her.. so it is not like I didn't act on that front either. But if I was just signing the divorce papers, and not do anything about him- then I was letting him go scott free and making her deal with it alone.

[CarryingOn123]

Definately on the right path here, talking to your family. D is a friend and can support you through some things, and you're right, this stuff is TOO much, and it's too personal for her. Also, it's your business, so it's best to keep that in your immediate family.

 

& moreover, since D has already told me that she was uncomfortable with it last time, and later told me that she might have latent feelings for me, I dont think it is a good idea to ask D. Moreover it wouldn't be fair on her too to put her in that position

[Ladyjane14]

I was disappointed. I've already said that. What I meant was I am not sure of her actions now.

 

Disappointment is something you express when your expectations aren't met, right?

So, if follows that if you had no expectations... there'd be nothing to be disappointed about.

 

I think maybe somewhere underneath it all, you hoped that this was all the OM's fault.... that he'd pursued your wife, caught her in a vulnerable state, and had his way with her. But really... it's more likely that they were equally culpable. It's not like he could just throw her over his shoulder and carry her off in this day and age.

 

So, she disappointed you when she engaged in a relationship with the OM while you were in a coma. And she's disappointed you again by NOT proving that this was all some gargantuan mistake in which she was some sort of naive victim.

 

Afterall, if you invite her to participate in your suit and she says 'yes', she's saying in essence... "yeah, he tricked me and used me". Then, maybe you could forgive her because it wouldn't have been her fault.

 

I am not just punishing one guy. Atleast I dont see it that way...Afterall I signed the divorce papers and left it for her.. so it is not like I didn't act on that front either. But if I was just signing the divorce papers, and not do anything about him- then I was letting him go scott free and making her deal with it alone.

 

But you are actively litigating the one case... and just dropping the other off with your SW so she can get around to it at her leisure? Kid-gloves 'off' in one instance, but 'on' in the other? This suggests to me that you're not giving equal billing in terms of responsibility for the affair.

 

I'll be candid with you. From the beginning, I've thought that you ought to just cut your losses and move on with your life. As I said in my first post to you.... sometimes there's just too much water under the bridge. My fear for you though... is that you might end up caught in the current.

[CarryingOn123]

. I don't actually agree with the suit, because it seems like it will probably make things more difficult for you, but it is your choice.

 

BTW, forgot to ask you this before, even though I meant to..

 

How does it make things more difficult for me?

[CarryingOn123]

Disappointment is something you express when your expectations aren't met, right?

So, if follows that if you had no expectations... there'd be nothing to be disappointed about.

 

We are getting into semantics here. I still maintain that I have no more

"expectations" from her. let me explain

 

What I want/ would have wanted is my side of the situation, it is something that is nice if it will happen. But expectation is the belief or sureity that the other person will act in the way that you want. What I mean when I say that I have no expectations, is that I dont have this belief anymore.

[CarryingOn123]

I think maybe somewhere underneath it all, you hoped that this was all the OM's fault.... that he'd pursued your wife, caught her in a vulnerable state, and had his way with her. But really... it's more likely that they were equally culpable. It's not like he could just throw her over his shoulder and carry her off in this day and age.

 

So, she disappointed you when she engaged in a relationship with the OM while you were in a coma. And she's disappointed you again by NOT proving that this was all some gargantuan mistake in which she was some sort of naive victim.

 

Afterall, if you invite her to participate in your suit and she says 'yes', she's saying in essence... "yeah, he tricked me and used me". Then, maybe you could forgive her because it wouldn't have been her fault.

 

To say that she disappointed me is true, but I've never tried to somehow sugarcoat it to think that she was innocent. As you know, I've maintained all along that she was more than equally responsible. I would put her responsibility at 60% and his at 40% if I were to put it on a scale.

 

Dont get me wrong, that was definitely my intention with the AOA suit. If I am going to take her back, I want it with my eyes wide open, and not by fooling myself

[CarryingOn123]

But you are actively litigating the one case... and just dropping the other off with your SW so she can get around to it at her leisure? Kid-gloves 'off' in one instance, but 'on' in the other? This suggests to me that you're not giving equal billing in terms of responsibility for the affair.

 

It is easier to be ruthless and cutthroat to someone whom you have no emotional linkage with, isn't it. You just can't turn off all your feelings towards a person abrubtly, like a switch.

 

While with the other guy, I have no other feelings involved, and hence no confusion.

[CarryingOn123]

I'll be candid with you. From the beginning, I've thought that you ought to just cut your losses and move on with your life. As I said in my first post to you.... sometimes there's just too much water under the bridge. My fear for you though... is that you might end up caught in the current.

 

hmmmmm........Sigh

[Ladyjane14]

It is easier to be ruthless and cutthroat to someone whom you have no emotional linkage with, isn't it. You just can't turn off all your feelings towards a person abrubtly, like a switch.

 

While with the other guy, I have no other feelings involved, and hence no confusion.

 

True... and that's the trap.

Because it should be illustrating something to you regarding the clarity of your thinking.

 

To say that she disappointed me is true, but I've never tried to somehow sugarcoat it to think that she was innocent. As you know, I've maintained all along that she was more than equally responsible. I would put her responsibility at 60% and his at 40% if I were to put it on a scale.

 

Sometimes we KNOW something in our head... but the knowledge isn't accepted all the way down to the heart. It's the difference between saying something... and feeling the truth of it. In your head, you know that your SW is at least 60% responsible, but in your heart... you're not willing to punish her at 60%. This indicates that there are feelings that need resolution. Knowledge that needs acceptance.

 

This is another one of the reasons why I had hoped you'd wait before making any actions that would limit choices for either of you. Yeah... I think it's probably better for you to cut your losses. But I'm not the 'man on the ground'. You are. You're the guy who's got feelings to deal with. You're the guy who needs to make the decision. But not until you're really ready to make it.

 

That's why it's best to stretch for time and allow the heart to catch up with the head. Proceeding with the AOA has the potential to limit your choices prematurely. And while I understand that you're under the gun timewise in getting the ball rolling, I'm not sure that it won't close the door completely on any future possibility of marital recovery.

[whichwayisup]

Let's just say........

 

SW decides she's had enough and tells you she wants to finalize the divorce and move on. Would you gladly sign off and not feel any regret (like, if only we had more time to see what 'could' happen) and be able to move on with your life without looking back?

 

I just ask this, because sooner or later, SW may have had enough of waiting to see what happens....

 

Just a possible senario that could happen, and I'm wondering if it would be easier on you if that were to happen, instead of you telling her it's over.

[CarryingOn123]

True... and that's the trap.

Because it should be illustrating something to you regarding the clarity of your thinking.

 

Didn't understand. Can you explain?

[CarryingOn123]

I'm not sure that it won't close the door completely on any future possibility of marital recovery.

 

If my feeling resentment for the other guy is going to sabotage any chances of marital recovery- then I dont want "that" marital recovery. I have expectations on what a marriage should be (some here have pointed out that it may be too high), but thats me. So if this is going to sabotage any marital recovery, then I think I will be better off for it.

[CarryingOn123]

Let's just say........

 

SW decides she's had enough and tells you she wants to finalize the divorce and move on. Would you gladly sign off and not feel any regret (like, if only we had more time to see what 'could' happen) and be able to move on with your life without looking back?

 

I just ask this, because sooner or later, SW may have had enough of waiting to see what happens....

 

Just a possible senario that could happen, and I'm wondering if it would be easier on you if that were to happen, instead of you telling her it's over.

 

I will move on too.. no regrets. Honestly, the only thing that is actually having me even consider getting back is her perseverance for it. If she doesn't want it, I too will move on..

[Ladyjane14]

Didn't understand. Can you explain?

 

I'm sorry. I'm beat today and not posting my thoughts as clearly as I'd like.

 

What I mean is that because you have unresolved affection for your wife, and none for the OM... you might ought to take a bit more time deciding your course of action, and examine your impetus to do so very carefully.

 

If you are bent on retribution, your wife deserves at least the same share you dole out to OM. You know that with your brain. But the fact that you aren't willing to act against your wife should tell you there's a possibility that you don't quite know it in your heart yet.

 

Your vendetta against OM seems to me as something of a primal nature. And I don't blame you for that. Heck, if I were you.... I'd want to kick the guy's ASS. But here you are, probably not quite up to 'ass-kicking' in this stage of your recovery, and even if you were... the law frowns upon that sort of thing.

 

What I'm hoping is that you ascertain any course of action you decide upon to be in YOUR best interest, and not something that closes the door on your marriage before you, yourself, are ready to close it. If you're going to take action... be active, not reactive.

 

I'm also thinking that an act that's "primal" in nature is often one a civilized man will later regret. Believe it or not, someday you're going to be happy again. You may, or may not, want to carry this particular drama into the future with you. I think maybe you're worried that you're going to stew if you let this guy get away with it. But.... one day when you're happy in your life again, he's not going to be important enough for you to stew over.