selfless love is just an illusion

[Sup]

Again, Its not her call on what retribution I need to move on. I wont have any financial losses, but my loses on many other fronts (including, but not limited to self esteem) also have to be considered. It is not him paying the whole bill- she is also paying for her part albeit non-financially. And moreover you are talking about a guy who earns the equivalent of around US$ 70K annually. Its not like this suit will leave him with no money for food or shelter or any of life's other needs. Maybe any plan to make a major investment like a house or something like that would be thrown off the rail, but otherwise he can take the hit ( The lawyers had done a preliminary check on him).

 

 

But are you saying that because she might be distressed that it will affect his life for quite a while, that I should leave it and let it affect my whole life. If that is her thinking, then I dont want to word my reactions to that here

 

I must say, you've been doing your homework.

[CarryingOn123]

Hey guys,

 

Didn't log in for a couple of days now. Was trying to get my head right. Didn't want to think about it- so shut it off for sometime.

 

Like I said before- I had the talk(s) with SW. The first one went on for 4 hours and stopped only because we were tired. Next talk went on for 3 hours. And 2 more 1 -1.5 hour ones. All of them face to face at where I am staying. After the first meeting she asked if she could do it at "our place" as she called it. I told her I didn't want to go there and it is not "our place" but her's. She said she only suggested it so that we could be really alone and let it all out. And I told her that we will do the best we could do at where we were at.

 

She came in around 11 and just hung around for a while and all of us had lunch at around 12, and at around 1 we went out into the gazebo in the garden to talk alone.

 

When I called her, I hadn’t told her what I wanted to talk about, but when we started- I told her that my intention was to truly convey my feelings about everything to her.

 

When I first started talking and made my first point of "discontent"(for want of a better word) - she started to try to talk about it. I told her that I just needed her to listen till I finished, because I didn't want to get side tracked and felt that I needed to get it all out in one flow. She agreed, but the waterworks started right at the beginning. Though it was not outright crying or sobbing, but eyes filling up uncontrollably- for both of us.

[CarryingOn123]

I was a bit stronger in my words that I had expected to be, but at that time I wasn't thinking about it- I was just getting it out.

 

I told her I was hurt by her actions and I "despised" her for it. I told her that I despised her for cheating on me, I despised her for thinking so less of us that she could do this, and that I despised myself for believing in her, and loving her, and trusting in her, earlier.

 

I told her how I feel that she has devalued our past relationship with her actions, and how I wonder if it meant as much to her that it meant to me.

I told her how crushed I was that she was celebrating separating from me (even though that was not the primary occasion, nevertheless if it was a heartbreaking decision- will you feel like celebrating it) by going on a cruise with him.

 

I told her how crushed I was at how easily and efficiently she removed me her life, from "our" house- where we had made our dreams together; the first home that we had bought, the one that we had so many happy, and special times together. The place which we felt was out fortress. I spat at her that she didn't even have the decency to "screw" her lovers someplace other than our marital bed. I told her how gutted I was to find that she conveniently removed me from the house to make way for him. I told her about the disgust I felt after seeing the tape of her and the OM. I told her maybe she should have made pictures enlarged from that to hang in her bedroom.

 

I told her that she should really think about trying to get back with me, because I am not the man that I was before (at least not to her). I told her that what she had done was like gutting me, and taking my entrails out and making a garland out of it and putting it around her's and OM's necks, and them dancing around me mocking me, and rubbing it in. I told her that I don’t feel that special feeling about her anymore, and I also don’t feel that I was special to her also.

 

I told her about how I feel about the baby. I told her that it will always be her baby, and never our baby. I reminded her how excited and full of hope and plans we were to start a family of our own. How we were quarrelling over baby names even before getting pregnant. I asked her where I was now in that scheme of things. How the OM is sharing that journey with her now- because she let him, and left me behind. She let me behind- the man she said she loved more than anything in the world, the man she said was her rock, the man (in her own words) she was born to be with.

 

I also informed her of my decision to file the motion to legally separate myself from the baby soon after it is born. (There was some sobbing from her and more tears from me at this stage).

[CarryingOn123]

After this there was just silence between us for a long time (30-45 mins). Only thing we were doing was leaning back in the chairs, staring into the distance and wiping away the stray tear.

 

I told her I was angry at her trying to defend him over me. At how she was putting his feelings first without a thought for mine, even now after she stated that she would do "whatever" for us. I told her how I feel that the loving, loyal, trustworthy, dependable wife that she was was gone for ever.

 

There was more silence and tears after this second round of (more controlled) outburst.

 

By then it was around 5 -5.30 and I wanted to say a lot more things, but was tired and spent- just couldn't do it anymore.

[CarryingOn123]

I think my Sil saw us through the window sitting silently for a long time and came out and sat with us for sometime and then asked if we wanted to come in for tea, or if we would like it brought out. I said we will go in and that we were done talking. At this point SW looked kind of shocked at me, and I told her that we can talk later but not today. We went in had tea in the pantry with my bro, sil, & her parents.

 

SW was asked by sil's parents to stay for dinner and they insisted even though she said she was not hungry. I went for a walk with my brother, and he asked how I was doing, and how the talk went- I told him that it was Ok, and I don’t know how it is going to turn out. Then he asked me one question- "how do you want it to turn out?” That is just like my brother, he makes these very soul searching comments. I told him I wish I can erase it all. I confessed to him that I had thought sometime ago (I had written this here also earlier) that it would have been better if I had taken care of myself 2 years back. He asked me "do you really think that?"- I told him "no" and he said "I didn’t think so, you were not raised that way, and I don’t think that’s who you are". I told him he was right, but that I had occasional thoughts like that. He told me "occasional thoughts are ok; you don’t have control over it. They are like birds flying over your head; you have no control over it- however you can choose not to let them nest on your head".

 

My brother is 14 years older than me. We never really had a sibling relationship- he was like my third parent, albeit the cool one. He was protective of me as well as very strict with me. I was scared of him, and felt safe with him at the same time. He was my hero while I grew up. But due to our age difference, we were not sharing out thoughts with each other, and even today I do that more with my Sil than with my brother.

 

When we came back I saw SW & Sil sitting on the swing on the back deck. They were sitting side by side and my Sil had her arm on SW's shoulder while SW had her head on Sil's shoulder (that’s what I love so much about my sis- she is such a loving, and caring soul). They were talking - more like SW was dong 80% of the talk- I think she was telling Sil about our face to face.

 

Soon we had dinner, and SW sat next to me (even though we didn’t speak directly to each other than asking to pass the dishes or cutlery). An outsider might just have seen 3 couples having dinner together, and I was wondering about that at dinner. I was wishing how I wished that it was true and that I could find everything else to be just a nightmare.

 

SW had my sil ask me when I felt like continuing our conversation/meeting. I went to SW directly and took her outside and told her that I felt that we both have a lot to think about, so let us leave it for now and continue later. She said she agreed, but just wanted to know when I wanted to talk next. I told her we could talk the next day. She said she could come in the morning after Sunday mass. I told her it would be better if we have it later in the afternoon/evening.

 

And thus agreeing, SW left around 8.

[CarryingOn123]

We spoke again the next day. We started talking around 4.

 

She told me that she was sorry for the pain that she caused me. She said she had no excuse for it. She said that she should have cut him off initially after realizing that he was pursuing her. She said she didn't do it because she didn't care for me or because she stopped loving me. She said that she had compartmentalized (all the terms make me feel that it came from her discussion with her counselor) her affair. She made it out to be separate lives with no connection with each other. When she saw my face at this, she said that she understood how I must be feeling, and that she herself could not believe that she could do something like that. She said she made that mistake, but was regretting it more than ever. She said that she would prove that she would be sincere to me and me alone for the rest of our lives and she would do anything for "us" if I could forgive her and give "us another chance.

 

I told her that she made all these statements before too, but when I asked her to cooperate in the AOA suit- she refused. I told her that it (her cooperation) had no real bearing on the case, but was just a gesture for me. She said that she agreed to do that, but I told her not to bother and the lawyer also told her the same thing at my direction. I told her she might have later changed her mind and agreed to cooperate when I went ahead and filed the case, but her initial reaction was to disagree, and defend him and care for his feelings more, even though I told her that I needed this to move on. She said she was sorry, and that she should have done it in the first instance. She said she disagreed initially because she didn't know that I felt so strongly about the issue, she said that she thought that I was having strong emotional reactions/mood swings- she said that she thought that if she held it up, then I might have decided that that’s not what I wanted to do and decide not to go ahead. I told her that was not her call to make and that she didn't get to decide how I deal with my life. She said she was sorry.

 

I told her that there were a lot of reasons for us not to reconcile, but precious few for the other direction.

 

I told her about how I will never accept the other guy in my life in whatever form. I told her about the child being a constant reminder in my life of her affair and betrayal. She said that she had offered to terminate the pregnancy, and why didn't I tell her to do it. She said she would have done it if I had asked her to do it, she said she would have done it now too but that it is too late to have an MTP. I told her that it was not my choice that she became pregnant, and hence it is not my choice or decision how she deals with it.

 

I told her if we got together I wouldn't want to deal with the OM constantly in my life because of the child. And even if he is not, what will happen if the child wants to bring him into its life later on. I told her that would be like a double betrayal then- That the child born out of her betrayal betraying me after I let down my guard and raised it as my own child.... It was pretty emotional(both sides) and heated (from my side) at this point.... after some silence she then said that she meant what she said earlier about doing anything for us and she would give the child up for adoption after birth, or waive parental rights in favor of the OM. I told her not to say anything she didn't mean, because it is not easy for her to do all the stuff that she said. She said that it would be difficult, but it would be more difficult to lose me... I told her that here were other issues also that we needed to consider- and it was not just that child which was the issue.

 

I told her how I lost trust in her, and how I was insecure that if something bad were to happen to me, then she would repeat herself again. I also told her that I was insecure in the knowledge that she is very capable of stepping over the line and having an affair, and betraying me- why will it not happen again when she feels she is losing out on something. She said that this was a serious and grave mistake on her part and that she will never do this again. She said she doesn't know how to prove it to me so that I can believe her, but asked me to forgive her and believe her.

[CarryingOn123]

I told her that I wanted to know all the details of her relationship etc... She said that she had already told me about it.. I told her I want all details, and to leave out no gory fact... She said "why do you want to hurt yourself more?..". I told her that I have already seen it with my own eyes, so it is not really a big leap from that.

 

She said that she will tell me anything that I wanted to know... By this time both of us were drained and sitting numb... So it was more like talking about something impersonal.. Like a film story... I asked, and she answered.. I questioned. And she clarified...

 

This continued in the smaller meeting that we had on Monday morning, and also the next one later in the afternoon...In the final meeting I asked her to tell me what she thinks our life will be like if we get back together. She said it will be very very hard, but that we can make it work with hard work, and that she is willing to do the lion’s share of it. I asked her if it will be completely ok after putting in all that hard work. She agreed that it will never completely heal, and there will always be times when this will come up, or something that reminds us of this.

 

I told her that we have talked, we need to take a break from talking and reflect on everything... She said that she agrees that we need time to reflect, but she doesn't want to stop talking as she felt that will put a distance between us. I told her that I didn't want to talk this week again, and we could probably talk on Sunday. She asked why not make it Saturday and that way we can cover more distance in the weekend. I told her that there would be people here next weekend on Saturday and that it is not conducive talking in that environment. She said she felt that if these outside influences were not there we could lessen the distance between us more (she meant D). I told her that no one else put any distance between us, it was she who put it thee. And that she shouldn't try to control my life anymore, that we are separate now.. To which she said "..You are still my husband, and I am still your wife...". After all this her remark irked me and I asked her sarcastically ".. Is that what you used to tell yourself every time you had sex with the OM?....is that what you tell yourself every time you pat your belly?". She was taken aback by my reaction, as I was in a calm mood prior to that and was talking mildly with her. She said she was sorry and shouldn't have said that.

 

I told her that I wanted her to do something before we meet again to talk.. I told her to think about it and tell me all the reasons why I shouldn't get back with her. She asked me "..Do you hate me that much?", and I said that this was not about hate or taking potshots, but it was something I really wanted her to reflect about and tell me.

[CarryingOn123]

My thinking is that, to do that she has to put herself in my shoes and look at things from my perspective and try to feel things from my angle. So she will have a greater insight on the gravity of the misery that she has caused. And after realizing that and she comes up with honest thoughts on the reasons why I shouldn't get back with her, then I know that she has fully grasped my hurt, pain and misery. Then Let us see what the next step forward will be. .. But, if she is unable to get into my shoes and come up with honest answers, then I will have to think that she is just saying whatever she needs to say in the short term to soothe things for now, without really being sincere about it.

 

That was a very long post...Will try and answer all your posts later..

 

Bye and take care.

[Sup]

It's GOOD that you got all of that out in the open. Do you feel like a weight has been lifted from you now you have had your say in the matter?

[whichwayisup]

All I can say is, wow! These past bunch of days must have been emotionally exhausting for you! And, writing this out is appreicated by all of us who are posting on your thread, I'm sure typing all that out took alot of your time up, so I commend you for that CO.

 

The part which stumped me:

 

She said that it would be difficult, but it would be more difficult to lose me... I told her that here were other issues also that we needed to consider- and it was not just that child which was the issue.

 

I told her how I lost trust in her, and how I was insecure that if something bad were to happen to me, then she would repeat herself again. I also told her that I was insecure in the knowledge that she is very capable of stepping over the line and having an affair, and betraying me- why will it not happen again when she feels she is losing out on something. She said that this was a serious and grave mistake on her part and that she will never do this again. She said she doesn't know how to prove it to me so that I can believe her, but asked me to forgive her and believe her.

 

I think after (I hope!) she does some reflecting, putting herself in your shoes, then maybe she'll "get" where you're coming from. I do believe she's sincere, but all her actions cannot just be swept under rug so quickly, and be forgotten about. She must grasp the concept of HOW much damage her decisions affected you. Even now, hoping that if you two Do get back together, that these things will always be issues that come up...Is it worth it? Is she worth it? Do you two have enough love and history and trust to make it through the future together a couple? Through bad times, rough times etc...

 

Either way, talking about this is helping both of you, because no matter what, good or negative outcome, both of you will have some closure and understanding.

 

One question though, and I'm sure this will come up - You've asked her to put herself in your shoes, what if she asks you to do the same for her? To try and understand her mindset, decisions etc...(Mind you, I don't know too many who would make ALL the choices she made.)

 

You take care too, get some rest.

[CarryingOn123]

Good luck, CO. I hope you get some resolution from your meeting. Disengage from the discussion if it becomes too stressful though. We don't want you landed up in the hospital with another migraine.

There were not really any resolutions, but it had to be done. And in the middle of all this pain and sorrow- I woke up strangely upbeat.

 

There were many times when the meeting was becoming too emotional. But we kept at it so that everything would come out, rather than bottling it up. Thanks for the wishes though :-)

[CarryingOn123]

Then stop it. It's unhealthy.

"Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die."

--Malachy McCourt

 

And it's ignoble.

 

Is Malachy McCourt your role model that you have to accept everything he says.

 

If someone assaulted you- wont you go to the police. If someone raped your daughter/sister- wont you try and get him punished. or is that also "like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die". If we have been wronged, we seek to be redressed. That is normal human behaviour. It is nothing noble, nor is it anything vile. It is as noble or vile as eating you breakfast in the morning

 

If you're going to play the greatly wronged injured person, then part of the deal is that you behave impeccably.

 

To the best of my knowledge that is what I was doing before- when I had a marriage.

 

 

 

Being vengeful is a seriously unattractive trait. At this point, I'd suggest to your wife that she reconsider whether you're worth all the grief. I'm not being abusive here; it's just that vengeful people don't seem to me to be the sorts of people I'd want to associate with, let alone marry. I'd certainly counsel her, if she were a friend of mine, to drop thoughts of reconciling .

 

At this point, trying to be attractive to my wife is the last thing on my mind, and the least of my priorities.

 

And I too hope, for her sake and mine, that she has friends like you. As a matter of fact she does (OM is the brother of a friend- so there)

[CarryingOn123]

I must say, you've been doing your homework.

 

The lawyers are very good, and they have a very professional and efficient approach to everything.

[CarryingOn123]

It's GOOD that you got all of that out in the open. Do you feel like a weight has been lifted from you now you have had your say in the matter?

feels a lot better. feels like I am doing something about it, rather than letting it just simmer.

[CarryingOn123]

All I can say is, wow! These past bunch of days must have been emotionally exhausting for you!

 

You cant even imagine it...

 

And, writing this out is appreicated by all of us who are posting on your thread, I'm sure typing all that out took alot of your time up, so I commend you for that CO.

 

Thats all right. After all it takes up a lot of your time and effort to post here to talk to me too.

 

The part which stumped me:

Quote:

She said that it would be difficult, but it would be more difficult to lose me... I told her that here were other issues also that we needed to consider- and it was not just that child which was the issue.

 

I told her how I lost trust in her, and how I was insecure that if something bad were to happen to me, then she would repeat herself again. I also told her that I was insecure in the knowledge that she is very capable of stepping over the line and having an affair, and betraying me- why will it not happen again when she feels she is losing out on something. She said that this was a serious and grave mistake on her part and that she will never do this again. She said she doesn't know how to prove it to me so that I can believe her, but asked me to forgive her and believe her.

Why did it stump you- did you see something in it that I didn't see?

 

I think after (I hope!) she does some reflecting, putting herself in your shoes, then maybe she'll "get" where you're coming from. I do believe she's sincere, but all her actions cannot just be swept under rug so quickly, and be forgotten about. She must grasp the concept of HOW much damage her decisions affected you.

 

I hope so too.

 

Even now, hoping that if you two Do get back together, that these things will always be issues that come up...Is it worth it? Is she worth it? Do you two have enough love and history and trust to make it through the future together a couple? Through bad times, rough times etc...

 

Either way, talking about this is helping both of you, because no matter what, good or negative outcome, both of you will have some closure and understanding.

 

At this point, I dont know about the future. But all the apprehensions and questions you had brought up are very valid ones. And I also definitely want closure on this issue, and so does she.

 

One question though, and I'm sure this will come up - You've asked her to put herself in your shoes, what if she asks you to do the same for her? To try and understand her mindset, decisions etc...(Mind you, I don't know too many who would make ALL the choices she made.)

 

In that cae, I will put myself in her shoes and answer honestly. But like you said not many people would have made the decisions that she made- I know that it is not in my character to do that.

 

You take care too, get some rest.

 

Will do.. thanks and take care too

[Guest]

I know that it is not in my character to do that.

 

Famous last words.

 

There are people who make mistakes once and never do so again. My cousin is one - went to jail for smuggling drugs. Turned his life around and will never do anything like that again. Nobody in the family, fortunately, has felt the desire to rub his nose in it over and over. We trusted in his remorse. You might want to try it. How much more can she cry?

 

I remember someone on LS once berating someone who had wronged her to the point where the person was left in a heap, shaking and vomiting. Would that suffice? How's about chopping off her arm? How much suffering do you need to inflict before you're satisfied?

 

Yes, revenge is ignoble, PARTICULARLY when the person ALREADY feels great remorse.

 

You mustn't be Catholic. Priests don't come out of the confessional and beat the tar out of you for sinning. When you apologize and repent, you are forgiven. Period. By God. If He can do that, perhaps it would be worthwhile attempting to emulate it.

 

You see, you excuse yourself by talking about rapists, etc. but they go to jail and that's it. You don't get to beat them up daily while they're there, and if they change their ways, realize their faults, and resolve to do different, even they get parole.

 

You want her to put herself in your place but you have yet to put yourself in hers.

[Forces Wife]

Hi - I've been following your story but this is the first time I've posted. I really feel for you and can't begin to imagine how hard it must be to deal with. However, I wondered if you still feel your SW is the person you want to spend your future with? Can you honestly say you want to be together in 20 years time, despite all that has happened? When you're old and look back at your life, which decision will you regret more - staying with her or letting go? If you know what you want from your future, it might help you deal better with today.

 

Hope this helps - good luck.

[Ladyjane14]

I went for a walk with my brother, and he asked how I was doing, and how the talk went- I told him that it was Ok, and I don’t know how it is going to turn out. Then he asked me one question- "how do you want it to turn out?” That is just like my brother, he makes these very soul searching comments. I told him I wish I can erase it all. I confessed to him that I had thought sometime ago (I had written this here also earlier) that it would have been better if I had taken care of myself 2 years back. He asked me "do you really think that?"- I told him "no" and he said "I didn’t think so, you were not raised that way, and I don’t think that’s who you are". I told him he was right, but that I had occasional thoughts like that. He told me "occasional thoughts are ok; you don’t have control over it. They are like birds flying over your head; you have no control over it- however you can choose not to let them nest on your head".

 

Your brother sounds like a smart guy... and he's got a fan in me based on the "birds" quote.

I got a HUGE kick out of that one.

 

 

 

I told her about how I will never accept the other guy in my life in whatever form. I told her about the child being a constant reminder in my life of her affair and betrayal. She said that she had offered to terminate the pregnancy, and why didn't I tell her to do it. She said she would have done it if I had asked her to do it, she said she would have done it now too but that it is too late to have an MTP. I told her that it was not my choice that she became pregnant, and hence it is not my choice or decision how she deals with it.

 

I told her if we got together I wouldn't want to deal with the OM constantly in my life because of the child. And even if he is not, what will happen if the child wants to bring him into its life later on. I told her that would be like a double betrayal then- That the child born out of her betrayal betraying me after I let down my guard and raised it as my own child.... It was pretty emotional(both sides) and heated (from my side) at this point.... after some silence she then said that she meant what she said earlier about doing anything for us and she would give the child up for adoption after birth, or waive parental rights in favor of the OM. I told her not to say anything she didn't mean, because it is not easy for her to do all the stuff that she said. She said that it would be difficult, but it would be more difficult to lose me... I told her that here were other issues also that we needed to consider- and it was not just that child which was the issue.

 

You know.... I think that if you could have things your way, you'd turn back the clock and put things back the exact way they were before your accident. You're a highly intelligent man though, and you KNOW that it's not possible to do that. At least... you know it in your head.

 

But I'm wondering at this point if your heart really knows it. (????)

 

Your SW is reading you well, and I'm willing to bet she knows enough about you to understand what it is that your REALLY want. You want it back the way it was. Toward that end, she's offered first to terminate her child, and now to give it away.... all based on what YOU want. She's attempting to put a decision into your hands that's not yours to make. And IMHO, it's not even a little bit fair to put that kind of pressure on you. I don't think she's doing it deliberately mind you, but still... it's undue pressure.

 

You avoided the trap neatly earlier when it was a matter of terminating the pregnancy.... but ALREADY she's said to you, 'why didn't you tell me to do it?' While I can't call it blame-shifting, I have to admit, I don't like ANY inference that you had a hand in IF this child comes into being or not. It wasn't your call. You did the gallant thing and made no attempt to influence the decision, yet suddenly now it's.... 'how come you didn't tell me to get an abortion'.????

 

In some ways it seems to me that she is FOREVER waiting for other people to tell her what to do and not taking charge of her life. Even now she wants you to tell her if she should keep her own child or not. Hey.... YOU didn't get her into this problem, why is it suddenly up to you to decide on how she's going to get out of it?

 

Do you realize what a HUGE trap she's laid here for you? Not that I think it's a deliberate machination on her part, but still... I think it's a trap for all that.

 

If you were to agree to take her back on the premise that she gives her child up for adoption or settles legal rights upon the father... I think it would be a mistake of GARGANTUAN proportions.

 

Marriage is long. And there are so very many hurdles even for people that don't carry these kinds of emotional burdens. Often enough, we're disappointed or put out with our partner over one thing or another. Most of the time, we're talking molehills and we overcome them. Magnify those molehills with the loss of a child though.... and each one becomes a mountain. Every small bump on the road will be viewed by one or the other of you through THIS lens. ie. You forget your anniversary... "Well how dare he? I gave up my BABY for him!"

 

Are you willing to wonder every year on the child's birthday if your wife regrets her decision, or if she secretly blames YOU for it? When she looks at other people's babies and a sad expression crosses her face, how are you going to feel? Even if you go on to have kids of your own, won't you feel a little bit haunted by the idea that there's another one out there somewhere who didn't have benefit of his/her mother growing up?

 

I just don't like the idea AT ALL of you taking any responsibility in this decision. No matter how you slice it, if you return to the marriage, this is going to be yours to deal with in some form or fashion. The clock CANNOT be turned back. The head knows it, but I think maybe the heart still hopes.

 

Anyway, my advice to you is to give it another month or so.... and then proceed with divorce. I think the ONLY way you can really be certain that you have not affected your SW's decision is to take your hat out of the ring in terms she can understand as final. (Of course, there's nothing stopping you two from getting back together at some point down the road, provided that neither of you have moved on... lot's of folks end up doing that.) But I don't see any short term resolution that won't leave you in a position of assuming responsibility (or blame) for what your SW decides about her child. The only solution I can see is that you get yourself out of the decision-making vicinity.

[CarryingOn123]

The OM wasn't just inconsiderate of their marriage, he was a predator of a woman in a vulnerable condition. He wasn't there 2 "support her" nearly as much as he was there 2 use her for his own sexual gratification. If he were really supportive of her, he would have REFUSED 2 become romantically involved with her.

 

exactly what I think too.

 

 

 

Well, if it weren't for a 2ple of things... ...that you were only married 2 years before this happened, and that she's pregnant with the OM's baby...

 

 

We had another 2 years prior to that so that was around 4 1/2 years in total together.

 

I'd say she sounds pretty remorseful. Recognize that anyone could have an affair, even thought not everyone does. Surviving infidelity is a very character-building experience, believe me. So, if it weren't for those 2 factors, I would say that it's better 2 rebuild your life and have a relationship with someone you know than someone you don't (because then you take the risk that something like this could happen with the new partner because they don't have first-hand experience with how destructive affairs are).

 

I dont thnk anyone has to be actually involved in an affair to know how destructive they can be...

 

 

 

When you were talking about the baby and her choices regarding it, I am glad that you left the choice about abortion up 2 her. I'm pro-choice, personally, but I firmly believe that choice belongs 2 the woman first, and then maybe the father 2nd.

 

I am neither of these 2 decision makers. I am not the mother or the father. So thats why I left the decision to her. Moreover I dont want to tell her what to do, I want her to do what she feels like doing without me asking for it.

[CarryingOn123]

CO: My examples 2 you were 2 show you that it is possible 2 recover even with an OC involved. In your case, the OM would have 2 choose 2 stay out of the pic2re for this 2 work. The baby hasn't been born yet, and if you could accept it, he/she would certainly bond with you and your W, only, if the OM stays out.

 

But I agree with you (as I've said before way back), that the simplest path forward would be for you 2 DV and your W 2 choose 2 be a single mom or re2rn 2 the OM and see if she can make a life with him.

 

-ol' 2long

 

I was reading this guys posts and trying to follow his journey. But you see I didn't walk away from it with a positive feeling on how there can be a good marriage even after infidelity and a resulting child.

 

From what I read (I could only read the first forum, The second one is restricted- so I dont know anything about his later posts if any)... They were married for around 35-36 years. Had 2 children. The elder one in his early to mid 30's and the younger one in his late 20's. The wife started having a love affair with another man when the elder child was around 2.5 years old (within the first 3-4 years of their marriage). subsequently she bacame pregnant by the other man and had the second son, and H raised it as his son believing so. The wife was in love with OM and continued the affair for approx 27 years till he died. After he died she bagan another affair with another man. wich continued for 5-6 years before the husband found it out when she was away with the other man...

 

**** hit the fan.. Hubby was torn and was suicidal....children came to know about everything and ostracised her... Hubby reconciled with her and supported her and comforted her for her estrangement with the children.. He went as far as to even support her while she had a farewell cermony to her first lover, so that she can get closure.... He was continually supporting her and loving to her throughout for the next one or 2 years... They even went through a health scare together with them worrying about a cancer scare for her.. All this while he was her support and rock...

 

One of the last posts of his that I read was, after all of this .. he found that the wife started contacting her second lover again secretly, and he caught her... I was devastated for him....That wont give you a positive feeling about reconciliation in situations like these, will it?..

[CarryingOn123]

And therein lies the conundrum. What will HE do about the baby? I think that the fact that you were only married 2 years when this started, and you have no kids with your W, puts more "pressure" on your W's and the OM's decision about how 2 handle parenting. And if it were me, I would choose as you have up 2 this point: If the OM wants any involvement at all, then there's no reason 2 recover the marriage. It would be better for your W and the OM 2 find a way 2 coparent if they can't live 2gether.

 

I have no concrete idea of what he wants, but based on his actions so far, I think he wants to be involved. What my wife told me was that she was not getting back with the OM and she has no such feelings for him, and never had. So I guess if they are going to raise the kid with both of them involved, then they have to find a way to coparent.

 

The best option would be for the OM 2 agree 2 stay out of the baby's life, and for you 2 adopt the baby as your own if you decide 2 stay married. Depending on where you are, if you raise the baby yourself, then legally you are the father. And if you did that, I think you'd bond with the baby in your own way 2 the point that you might not even think of him/her as some OM's child, but your own. And the baby, of course, will bond with whomever steps up and takes fatherly responsibility for them.

 

When you say the "best option"- it is the best option for me & my wife. Based on his past actions that is not what the other man will be thinking about- He will be thinking about what the best option will be for him!

Where we are, if I (or her) dont dispute paternity within 2-3 years (considered age of reasoning for the child), lets put it safely at 2 years- then legally I am the father. But the problem with that scenario is that I will still be responsible for the child even if the marriage breaks up later on due to us not being able to fully cope with the situation. So I would be putting myself at a very big legal disadvantage if I do this.

 

Sure, the child may want 2 know who his bio father is someday. But that would not be the same as wanting 2 replace you with the bio father.

I know, but it would still hurt..

 

Stuff 2 think about. Your W still sounds like a decent human being who made a terrible mistake. Mistakes can be corrected and moved beyond. Whether you want 2 or not is the question.

 

Mistake is something that a person does without realising that it was wrong. They might also do it believing they were right, and only later realise that it was not so. This was not the case here. She knew all along that it was wrong. So I wouldn't put it lightly saying "it was just a mistake". While the intention might not have been to hurt me; there was full knowledge and realisation that it was wrong and would be a betrayal to me, hurt me.

 

& Oh yes! But I agree with you, she is a decent human being otherwise.

 

Just 2 reiterate, I think that the child and the OM's insistence or lack thereof regarding parenting rights/responsibilities needs 2 be discussed between you and your W. Compared 2 the ramifications of the choices around that particular issue, recovering a marriage after infidelity - even one only 2 years old - is easy.

 

-ol' 2long

I realise that a major propotion of the factors influencing our decisions hinge around those involving the child.

[CarryingOn123]

How much more can she cry?

 

I remember someone on LS once berating someone who had wronged her to the point where the person was left in a heap, shaking and vomiting. Would that suffice? How's about chopping off her arm? How much suffering do you need to inflict before you're satisfied?

 

I am not trying to make her suffer and cry- that is not my intention... If I wanted to do that I would have found more effective ways to do that... That is what my actions are all about... Any pain and suffering to her is incidental, and not the primary or secondary motive regarding my actions...

 

A little (or a lot of) pain now and getting it over with is better than a lifetime of pain and suffering that is my thought.. So I am trying to find out the best way for the future.... there is no point in me getting back with her if I cant deal with the issues, is there?...it will not be fair to me or her.. So that is what my actions are all about.. trying to deal with the situation minutely and decide on where to go from there..Only that is my motive, and not to make her suffer as you imply..

 

I am not looking to appease myself with her suffering;so that I am looking at deciding that she has had enough, and I am satisfied and now I can get back. and FYI- she is not the only person suffering.

[CarryingOn123]

Yes, revenge is ignoble, PARTICULARLY when the person ALREADY feels great remorse.

I am not looking for revenge (atleast on her). I am only trying to find the best way for the future for both of us.

 

You mustn't be Catholic. Priests don't come out of the confessional and beat the tar out of you for sinning. When you apologize and repent, you are forgiven. Period. By God. If He can do that, perhaps it would be worthwhile attempting to emulate it.

As a matter of fact, I am catholic. & I believe god can do anything, and it would be foolish of me to think- that if god can do it, so can I. God is divine, and I am human...

. Nobody in the family, fortunately, has felt the desire to rub his nose in it over and over. We trusted in his remorse. You might want to try it. .

 

that is what you have not realised.... That is exactly what i am also trying to find out- Whether I can live with her without "rubbing her nose in it" (i wouldn't use those exact words, but you get the picture) over and over. & whether I can trust her enough to think that she will not do this again

You see, you excuse yourself by talking about rapists, etc. but they go to jail and that's it. You don't get to beat them up daily while they're there, and if they change their ways, realize their faults, and resolve to do different, even they get parole.

Wherever you live, I dont think the judge believes them and gives them parole as soon as they soon as they say they are sorry for . They have to prove themselves during the minimum time that they need to serve to be eligible for parole...crying about it is not what will influence the judge, but proving to the judge/parole board that they have changed.

[CarryingOn123]

Hi - I've been following your story but this is the first time I've posted. I really feel for you and can't begin to imagine how hard it must be to deal with. However, I wondered if you still feel your SW is the person you want to spend your future with? Can you honestly say you want to be together in 20 years time, despite all that has happened? When you're old and look back at your life, which decision will you regret more - staying with her or letting go? If you know what you want from your future, it might help you deal better with today.

 

Hope this helps - good luck.

Hi FW

 

&thanks for the wishes

 

FW... I cant honestly say anything now... That is the truth.... I honestly dont know... It is very confusing.....It is like a roller coaster, sometimes I feel one way and sometimes I feel another way.

[CarryingOn123]

Your brother sounds like a smart guy... and he's got a fan in me based on the "birds" quote.

I got a HUGE kick out of that one.

 

Oh he is one smart guy- very smart... & He has a lot of fans, including me... and I am glad that he has a fan in you :-)