selfless love is just an illusion

[CarryingOn123]

I think it was a good idea to tell her to read what you've written. It saves you having to say it all and she can see all the difficulties you're having.

 

Thanks Outcast

 

On hindsight I think it was for the best, because I dont think I really could have conveyed to her how I felt.

 

 

Well, hopefully when she reads your heartfelt words she'll have a better understanding of where your mind is.

.

 

I hope so too.

[CarryingOn123]

If she didn't love him, she was certainly doing a damn fine imitation of it.

 

She was living with him, engaged to be married, expecting his baby, and on a cruise with him to be followed up by a holiday with his extended family... when CarriedOn awakened from his coma.

I'm totally with you, Outcast, in respecting that this lady's circumstances were extraordinary. It's hard to imagine how difficult it must feel to be in her position.

 

But... the facts speak for themselves. Her actions don't jive with her words. It doesn't make sense to do all the things that she did... with someone she didn't love. She was going to end her marriage to CarriedOn in order to marry this OM. I find it hard to believe that she could have made a decision like that lightly.

.

 

 

The thing is, she must have loved him enough to not wait for you ... 17 months (to me anyway) is NOT a long time. For her to find someone else and get on with life - That better be love!!

 

If it was not love, then there was something else very significant there.

 

 

She probably does love Carrying On- but yet she tossed him aside because he was ill. Now she's tossing aside the OM because Carrying On is back among the alert and living. Just doesn't give me the warm fuzzies.

Not that it has to, but I'm just calling it like I see it.

 

Doesn't give me warm fuzzies either.

[CarryingOn123]

oh!... and.....

 

Sorry folks, and even CO123...

 

...I no longer believe this is a bona fide sitch.

 

Mrs CO might be able 2 convince me otherwise, perhaps.

 

But it reads 2 much like a TV Movie for me.

 

Sorry.

 

-ol' 2long

 

Glad you are enjoying the show, Please stay for the commercial breaks as well, as the money is going for a good cause....

[CarryingOn123]

Maybe Solemate can help you out there.

[CarryingOn123]

Yep, Im sorry but none of this makes any sense. You can't divorce someone when they are in a coma. If that was the case, then Teri Schiavo's husband would have divorced her a decade ago. It's just not possible. The spouse has to sign the divorce papers or be DEAD.

 

Maybe Solemate can help you out there.

[CarryingOn123]

Yep, Im sorry but none of this makes any sense. You can't divorce someone when they are in a coma. If that was the case, then Teri Schiavo's husband would have divorced her a decade ago. It's just not possible. The spouse has to sign the divorce papers or be DEAD.

 

Where I am, you can apply to annul your marriage, if you can prove that your spouse cannot fulfil "spously duties". I am not sure if that is the term, but you get the idea. A spose can request annulment if the other spouse has gone insane, etc.

 

I am not sure what the law in US is, thats why I asked you to ask Sloemate, I dont know too much of Teri Schavio's case to comment on that

[Outcast]

but yet she tossed him aside because he was ill.

 

Lord, but you people are harsh! It's not as if she was all happy and fine and living a perfectly lovely happy life and she just 'tossed him aside' like trash!!!!! She would have been in horrible pain!!!! Can you imagine for one minute, Pixie, sitting watching your beloved husband virtually lifeless for MONTHS?

 

I can't believe that people can slough such a horrible situation off so easily. HE had it easy - he was asleep, for pete's sake!!! It's five minutes passed to him!!!

I really want all the people saying they could handle this for a year to sit up and watch their spouses sleep for an entire night. And then imagine him not waking up - for a YEAR!!!!!!!

 

not similar to a relationship with a child that your wife concieved with another man while you considered her your loyal and faithful true love. There are no factors for underlying resentment in the case of a step child, while there are several here.

 

Well, you could choose to beat yourself up every time you look at the child, or you could see the child as another precious, new, and blameless human being who needs love and care to become a fully functioning human. And that you could be part of that process.

[LovingLife]

I found a story similar to yours. It is not really similar, but has a lot of parallels- Husband sick, loving wife, takes a lover after sometime, Wife tells husband, Husband gives blessings.

 

http://archive.thenorthernecho.co.uk/2002/8/26/123145.html

 

While it may not be exactly your same situation, it may give some insight into your wife's psyche. It might have a lot to do with human needs. Have you heard of Maslow's hierarchy of needs. That is an established theory on what people find important in their life depending on which stage of life they are in.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs

 

Human companionship is a basic human need, not just as family and friends, but in an intimate level too. Physical intimacy is a very real human need. Some people can subdue it, some others cant.

 

I am not saying what she did is right or wrong, I am not saying what you are doing is right or wrong. I am just pointing out why people do stuff like this. I am sure that your reaction can also be explained by this theory.

 

Wish you the best. Focus on whats good for you and dont get side tracked.

[CarryingOn123]

Cute. Now THAT goes a long way 2ward convincing me this is real...

 

Also, it's sad that this is the first post of mine you answered...

 

I honestly wish you well, but the whole thing does sound a little... ...contrived. Maybe it isn't, though.

 

At least you didn't say someone dropped a piano on your head.

 

-ol' 2long

 

I am sorry that this is the first post of your's that I have answered. I wasn't ignoring you or your posts. If you see my posts I was mostly replying to specific questions, or some thoughts that I disagreed with. I am sorry that I didn't acknowledge your efforts in this thread. And moreover, I didnt want to be rude in my earlier post, but as I had mentioned earlier, I am edgy for the last couple of days. But irrespective of that, I am sorry.

 

And I have found a lot of your posts very touching and helpful. Some of them are

 

CO:

 

I appreciate the effort that 2k 2 write all that, and the effort it 2k 2 have the meeting in the first place.

 

In the long haul, I'm betting you'll be very glad you did meet with her.

 

For now, something 2 consider: The opposite of love isn't hate, it's indifference. If you were indifferent 2ward your W, you wouldn't have felt ill. You would have felt nothing. If she were indifferent 2ward you... ...well, it's pretty obvious she isn't indifferent either.

 

Like others have suggested or implied, be careful of forgiving 2 quickly. Give yourself time 2 process all that's happened.

 

Obviously, she has some decisions of her own 2 make now. First, if she really wants 2 reconcile with you, she's going 2 have 2 distance herself from the OM. For her 2 do that, she's going 2 have 2 determine whether he will want 2 play a role in their baby's life. If he doesn't, then simply not having any contact with him for the rest of her life will help your M. If he does, it'll be difficult, but it could still be managed even so. There are people out there who've succeded at THAT particular dilemna as well, though it is very hard.

 

I think there is hope here. There has 2 be, in any case, whatever you and she decide 2 do.

 

If it's any consolation, I've been told repeatedly while trying 2 overcome my W's infidelity, and now I understand this and have internalized it: Personal growth is always difficult. Anything worthwhile is. But once you surrender yourself 2 that fact, it becomes less burdensome and much more enjoyable 2 live through.

 

Wisdom will be your reward.

 

-ol' 2long

 

Everybody makes valid points here.

 

And while I do believe that CO's W's actions were selfish, it's certainly true that, 2 some degree, we're all selfish creatures. That can be good for us, or cause us harm (really, complicate things unnecessarily).

 

The big 2uestion at this point, since all this is water under the bridge, is:

 

CO, what do you want 2 do? What kind of man do you want 2 be?

 

Forgiveness should be your goal, whether you reconcile or move on separately. Not villifying your W for her selfish or perhaps poor choices will aid your forgiveness process.

 

I've certainly heard of BHs who have reconciled with their Ws even after they've had children with an affair partner (while they were conscious, not in a coma). Their marriages are healed, and their relationships closer and stronger than ever. They're also healthier, happier individuals for the experience.

 

But it's hard work, and not a requirement, by any means.

 

-ol' 2long

 

 

This is exactly like the age-old question: "If your spouse were injured and unable 2 have sex anymore, or in some other way became 'unattractive' 2 you physically, would you still love them?"

 

Your W may have been reasonable in not expecting that you would ever recover, and thus prepared 2 move on with her life, but she didn't give herself enough time 2 heal and she didn't take the proper legal and moral steps before starting a new relationship. It's that simple.

 

*She didn't give herself enough time 2 heal. 17 months is a long time, and possibly adequate after the ending of a marriage - either through divorce or death of one spouse. Only you weren't dead and she isn't divorced. So the clock hadn't even started ticking yet. Also, it's clear she hasn't gotten over you because she now wants 2 reconcile with you.

 

*She began an affair and is now pregnant with the OM's baby because she was married 2 you at the time she made these choices.

 

 

Since you have no kids yourself with her, the simplest (though perhaps not the easiest) thing 2 do would be 2 cut your losses, as your actions and messages 2 her through your sister appear 2 be conveying. She has a big commitment 2 the OM because she's carrying his child, and the simplest, though perhaps not the easiest thing for her 2 do would be 2 stand by this new commitment, even though it began as infidelity.

 

A very sad si2ation, but hopefully one from which all concerned may yet learn valuable life lessons from.

 

I admire you for what you did when the accident occurred. It says volumes about the kind of man you are.

 

-ol' 2long

 

Thank you again for your sincere posts, and kindly excuse me as my social skills are not what they used to be.

 

Take care

[Sup]

Thanks Mate, Dont worry about it. There are no complications on that front. When the split of assets were done/decided upon, the value of the house was also taken into consideration. And I dont have to pay child support if I dont want to, as I can legaly dispute paternity. Money, is really not the issue mate, she makes good money on her own.

 

For the record, my belief and values equate abortion to murder, if it is done for any other reason than saving the life of the mother.

 

 

 

I think so too.

 

I just remembered something though, according to SOME state laws paternaty MUST be disputed within ONE years time, just so you know MAN. I also heard in some states, ANY child conceived during the marriage is considered to be the spouses,(Fathers) not trying to scare ya, or rush ya, but you don't wanna let time run out on ya:( All for now.

[Sup]

Cute. Now THAT goes a long way 2ward convincing me this is real...

 

Also, it's sad that this is the first post of mine you answered...

 

I honestly wish you well, but the whole thing does sound a little... ...contrived. Maybe it isn't, though.

 

At least you didn't say someone dropped a piano on your head.

 

-ol' 2long

 

No, that's NEXT WEEK! LOL:p

[CarryingOn123]

I just remembered something though, according to SOME state laws paternaty MUST be disputed within ONE years time, just so you know MAN. I also heard in some states, ANY child conceived during the marriage is considered to be the spouses,(Fathers) not trying to scare ya, or rush ya, but you don't wanna let time run out on ya:( All for now.

 

I have already checked up on that. Please see my earlier posts quoted below.

 

Solemate.. reading more about this case that you sent me, I realise that the law in US is similar to the one that we have here in the sense, the state cannot force paternity on the husband during the grace period, In my contry it is mentioned as age of reasoning for the child, while in the US it is 2 years. The husband can dispute paternity for upto 2 years after the birth of the child and only if this has not been done can he be forced to take up paternity. Therfore I dont have to be the legal father if I dont want to, and I dont want to.

 

The case that you sent me was insightful... But I dont live in US. and where I am, the law states (to the best of my understanding) that the mother's husband is considered to be the father (even if he is biologically not) only if the child consider's him to be the father (i.e if the chld was brought up to an age of reasoning-3-4, believing him to be the dad). Moreover the biological dad can legaly enforce his rights to be a practising parent involved in the childs life.

.

[CarryingOn123]

I was doing some reading online. I was reading this article at http://divorcesupport.about.com/cs/stayorgo/a/priorities.htm . This article was written to help those people who are considering ending their marriage, make a rational and informed decision.

 

A couple of hard questions that you have to ask yourself, I am writing down my answers when I asked myself these questions.

 

 

 

• Is it critical that you end your marriage now?

It is not critical, but it is important because I feel I am not able to move forward with my life. I feel suffocated. I feel I am losing mor of my life in addition to what I've already lost.

• Can you give one more try to make it work?

I dont think I want to do that. I can try, but I know for 100% that I wont be happy or secure in that relationship again.

 

• Is forgiveness the issue?

Not really, and also partly. to explain- forgivness is not the issue if we are splitting. Then I can wish her all the best in all sincerity, but if we are giving it another try, then all these issues will come up.

 

• Are you letting pride stand between you and the man or woman you pledged to love for the rest of your life?

Not really. Though some might see my inability to accept the circumstances and baggage as part of that. But I feel a sense of betrayal (even though it has been suggested that I have no right to feel that way). Again this feeling of betrayal, etc becomes an issue only if we were trying again, otherwise it is a non-issue.

 

• Is trust the issue? Are you having a difficulty trusting them again?

Definitely. That is the biggest issue here. 90% I would say.

 

• What do you lose if you trust and they disappoint you again?

I will become a cynic for life, I will lose my basic trust in people and relationships. I would be incapable of giving 100% to anyone (not even my children, which is a scary thought). I would be mentally and emotionally broken.

 

• What do you gain if you trust and they don't disappoint you?

We can try and have a semblance of our previous life. We can put on a front of sincerity and trust and everything else, but underneath the surface we would still have the knowledge that it is all fake, and when push comes to shove there will be nothing left again.

[Outcast]

but I know for 100% that I wont be happy or secure in that relationship again.

 

You could be. If you wanted to. But let me warn you that you can NEVER predict anything like that with anything close to 100% certainty. Talk to whoever it was who went through the similar experience. You can THINK you're 100% certain of something. For a while. But life changes you and you change and what you are soooo certain of at one point becomes irrelevant later.

 

but underneath the surface we would still have the knowledge that it is all fake

 

It doesn't have to be. You can choose to not harden your heart. You can choose to believe that you were not 'betrayed' but rather that she sought comfort from harm in a less-than-wise way. And forgive her for making a mistake. But you have to drop your wish to think that she deliberately wounded you on purpose because that's what's stopping you from moving on.

[CarryingOn123]

I found a story similar to yours. It is not really similar, but has a lot of parallels- Husband sick, loving wife, takes a lover after sometime, Wife tells husband, Husband gives blessings.

 

http://archive.thenorthernecho.co.uk/2002/8/26/123145.html

 

While it may not be exactly your same situation, it may give some insight into your wife's psyche. It might have a lot to do with human needs. Have you heard of Maslow's hierarchy of needs. That is an established theory on what people find important in their life depending on which stage of life they are in.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs

 

Human companionship is a basic human need, not just as family and friends, but in an intimate level too. Physical intimacy is a very real human need. Some people can subdue it, some others cant.

 

I am not saying what she did is right or wrong, I am not saying what you are doing is right or wrong. I am just pointing out why people do stuff like this. I am sure that your reaction can also be explained by this theory.

 

Wish you the best. Focus on whats good for you and dont get side tracked.

 

Thanks Loving life. I have learnt of Maslow's hierarchy before but had not thought about it in this context.

 

I think you are right, and looking at it I can put my wife in level 1, and me in level 2 of the pyramid. where my wife's physiological needs were unmet (by me), & my needs of saftey (familial, moral, & phsyological) being unmet now.

[CarryingOn123]

It doesn't have to be. You can choose to not harden your heart. You can choose to believe that you were not 'betrayed' but rather that she sought comfort from harm in a less-than-wise way. And forgive her for making a mistake. But you have to drop your wish to think that she deliberately wounded you on purpose because that's what's stopping you from moving on.

 

Hey Outcast, You and me- we tend to be going in circles in this thread. Let us try to have a step by step approach here. Can we establish our a basic view points here. For that, can you answer a question that I had put to you earlier

 

 

Which is why this, IMHO, is a whole other order of situation than 'cheating'. There was no you. .

 

So according to you this is not "cheating". According to you, there was NO ME to cheat on. I assume that you mean that she had to be practical and let me go, for her to cope.

 

If, according to you, there was no me to cheat on, then there was no ongoing relationship either was there?. It would have been a relationship that had ended, am I right?

 

I fhtere was no me, then there is no me now too. If she had let me go, then it would just be a slight complication that I had woken up. A complication that can be corrected by redrawing the legal papers. You cant lose something that was not there, can you?

 

I am just extra-polating your view point to fully explore that hypothesis.

 

But if you are now saying, that she didn't let me go, and that there was a me, and that there was a relationship; Then this is "cheating". A burger by any other name would still be a burger

 

Let us first agree if it is betrayal or not, Because our approaches on dealing with the situation depends a lot on how we view the situation in the first place. It is my belief that we have polarised views on this. So let us discuss this first and see if we can come to an agreement, or at the least agree to disagree.

[CarryingOn123]

BTW what is IMHO

[jonesgirly]

" in my humble opinion "

[CarryingOn123]

I am taking a break from here and going for a week's holiday. My brother, Sil, and me we are going to one of my friend's (D, my ex girlfriend) farm a couple of hours from here. She has arranged for some of her friends to gather at her farm and spend a couple of days there having fun. The plan is that my bro ans Sil, will return on monday and D will take me to an Ayurvedic resort where they have Yoga courses. Yoga is supposed to be good in controlling your mind and for controlling stress.

 

I think it will be good to getaway for a while. I might not be able to log on till I return. Bye, & take care everyone

[CarryingOn123]

" in my humble opinion "

Oh.. I see.... Thanks

[jonesgirly]

IMHO, that sounds like a great getaway! Enjoy..

[Outcast]

Have a wonderful time

 

If, according to you, there was no me to cheat on, then there was no ongoing relationship either was there?. It would have been a relationship that had ended, am I right?

 

WHEN there was no you, quite possibly. Same as if you'd fallen off a boat and not been found for a year or got lost in the bush and not been found for a year. Eventually you get declared dead on the strength of not being there.

 

I fhtere was no me, then there is no me now too.

 

Well, dude, if that ain't you then who's typing? It's as though the guy who fell overboard was found or the one lost in the bush turned up alive.

 

In fact there's been movies about that very thing over time. I remember seeing some oldies about it. You might want to rent a couple.

 

If she had let me go, then it would just be a slight complication that I had woken up. A complication that can be corrected by redrawing the legal papers. You cant lose something that was not there, can you?

 

Sorry but the logic is wrong. Something was lost - the you that existed before the thing landed on your head. You existed before, became lost, and were found again. The correct analogy would be if you had anemia and didn't remember her at all. Then it would be as though she never existed and so if you woke up and didn't go back to her, it would be because that which is lost is, to all intent and purposes, gone forever. However you're not gone. You're at the end of your fingers. And nobody lost memory. Actually, it's amazing you didn't.

 

What you're saying is that if you lose your keys and get another set cut then finding the old keys means they don't exist. See how that doesn't scan?

 

Now go have fun and get Ayurveda'd and Yoga'd. It'll be good for you

[CarryingOn123]

Have a wonderful time

 

Now go have fun and get Ayurveda'd and Yoga'd. It'll be good for you

 

Thanks, I will.

 

WHEN there was no you, quite possibly. Same as if you'd fallen off a boat and not been found for a year or got lost in the bush and not been found for a year. Eventually you get declared dead on the strength of not being there.

 

Well, it is not the same is it, If you wanted to draw a similarity, then it would have been that I fell off the boat, and drifted into another country's borders and was put in prison on immigration grounds. They would know I was there but had no way of contacting mt, ans me them. In that case I cant be declared dead , can I?

 

Well, dude, if that ain't you then who's typing? It's as though the guy who fell overboard was found or the one lost in the bush turned up alive.

 

In fact there's been movies about that very thing over time. I remember seeing some oldies about it. You might want to rent a couple.

 

 

And almost all (if not all) did not have a good ending, isn't that so?

 

 

Sorry but the logic is wrong. Something was lost - the you that existed before the thing landed on your head. You existed before, became lost, and were found again. The correct analogy would be if you had anemia and didn't remember her at all. Then it would be as though she never existed and so if you woke up and didn't go back to her, it would be because that which is lost is, to all intent and purposes, gone forever. However you're not gone. You're at the end of your fingers. And nobody lost memory. Actually, it's amazing you didn't.

 

But I wasn't the one who took someone else in when I didn't have memory. It was her! And she didn't have anything wrong with her memory.

 

What you're saying is that if you lose your keys and get another set cut then finding the old keys means they don't exist. See how that doesn't scan?

 

Are you saying that the keys to this relationship is me being well, or that I am able to meet all her needs (whatever the circumstances). Well in that case I wouldn't be too keen on going through that door.

[CarryingOn123]

People are saying that I need to forgive her. Ok! but let us figure out what it is exactly that I need to forgive. Is it betrayal and infidelity. In that case, there is something to forgive. But if she did nothing wrong, and it was a simple mistake like making a wrong turn and ending up losing your way in a car, then there is nothing to forget.

 

What does everybody else think?

[Guest]

People are saying that I need to forgive her. Ok! but let us figure out what it is exactly that I need to forgive. Is it betrayal and infidelity. In that case, there is something to forgive. But if she did nothing wrong, and it was a simple mistake like making a wrong turn and ending up losing your way in a car, then there is nothing to forget.

 

What does everybody else think?

 

You have to forgive her to be able to let go and move on.

You will still will not be able to forget.

 

The questions are:

Do you love her enough to forgive her and try again?

Do you really want to try again?

Have you gotten to the point where you feel you would be better served with someone new, whom you don't distrust? (there is no guarantee someone else won't cheat on you either).

 

If you were to try again with your wife, it will be some time before you could forget what happened. That baby is going to serve as a daily reminder for the rest of your years.

 

I am starting to lean towards your decision to cut her loose and let her go, CO123. I don't agree with abortion. Your wife made this decision, now she should have to live with the consequences. You should not have to live the rest of your dying days with the anger you would harbor against her for abandoning you and getting pregnant with another man's child.

 

Unfortunately for you, this is the hand you have been dealt. Deal with it as you see fit.

 

Unfortinately for her, she made this bed, now she must sleep in it. She should have thought about the consequences of her actions for breaking God's covenant. The only sin in which God will allow for divorce is infidelity. In this case, God would grant you a divorce, no questions asked.

 

The more I think about it, the happier I believe you will be with someone new. Someone you can trust and someone who does not have a lingering cloud over their head of infidelity and mistrust.

 

Whatever you decide I wish you the best of luck and I will pray for you.