Do I or Don't I?

[Lor]

Okay, well as many of you know, I've picked up and filled out the divorce papers and wrote up a settlement agreement. Before anyone starts screaming that I need a lawyer, we are in agreement on pretty much everything so there honestly is no need for one. If it comes to this, we want to remain friends, mainly for the kids, and realize that any pushing or shoving is gong to hurt that.

 

That said, I printed out the list that LadyJane posted on 33 things to do/not to do to save your marriage. Now true, I've tried some of these already but to be honest, have not followed thru or stayed consisent. A lot of that has to do with battling my depression. Right now I'm feeling pretty darn good again--think the WI air did me a world of good.

 

I asked him this am to meet me tomorrow night to go over the settlement. Should I stick with the plan of filing or set my feet, hunch my shoulders and REALLY make an effort this time to follow "the rules"? I want to make my marriage work. I'm in it 150%. I could tell him I can't meet him and then just let it hang.

 

?????advice?????

[Shane361]

I've never been in your shoes so what I think should be taken with a grain of salt. What does he want and why? What do you want and why? I would think that if you tried everything and exhausted your resources emotionally you wouldnt be asking for opinions. I wonder that if you throw the towel in now will you wonder for the rest of your life if you had tried just alittle harder would it have worked. In the same breath..what % of the relationship are you giving and him? Is he going the extra mile or are you? Are you trying to make it for the kids sake or your love for each other? All retoricle questions but important ones to ask oneself. Are you staying together cause you feel like you dont want to be alone? Is there still passion there? Feel free to anwser these for more insight on our part. -Shane

[Lor]

Shane, check out my other threads if you want to read the horrid state of my marriage.

 

What do I want? My husband back because I love him. My children to have their parents back together in a loving environment. I want the passion, the love, the tears, the pain, the joy, the contentment, the forgiveness, all of it.

[Shane361]

I will read them. My mother married 4 different men. All evil for different reasons. Her leaving each one was the best thing for her and us three kids. Sometimes...other side of the fence IS greener. You have to look at the whole picture of what is and what could be. If you truely LIKE and LOVE your husband then of course there is a chance. If he also LIKES and LOVES you then the chance is even greater. Love in itself simply isn't enough. I could love a rock...doesnt mean I like to spend my Sat with one. To like someone these days is where we come into complications. Its harder to like someone than to love them..who would have guessed! I know you want..maybe with all your heart..but does your heart and your head agree? Is he good for you and your kids? I need to read now....lol-Shane

[Lor]

My H is not the best guy in the world, but I'm not the best W either. We've made a lot of mistakes over the years.

 

Through out this whole thing I have been very wishy-washy. I've tried sticking to the "I don't need you" game plan but always end up falling away from it.

 

I've said I'm going to file. If I back out, its showing him that once again, I've bluffed. If I file, then I may lose him forever.

 

I want one more chance but it might not matter anyway. He doesn't communicate with me so I don't know what is going on in his head. One day he says he doesn't want a divorce and was thinking of working things out, the next day the idea doesn't seem to bother him.

 

Guess if nothing else, its not final for 60 days after I file. I can file now and I can go with Plan B in the meantime?

[Shane361]

I wish I knew if there was anything going on with the ex. It could be that they are simply friends. One of my closest friends is one that I was heavily envolved with for over 2 years. We just know each other but that spark is out. If he ever really wants it to be oven then there isnt much you can do about it. I think putting a little pep in your step and taking it one day at a time would be great rite now. Join a gym, get your nails done, have some fun with your kids and him if possible. Possibly not putting to much into the emotional side of the house for the moment. Maybe letting him see a woman that will live with or without him might do him so good. Let him see the woman you were when you two both started dating. If you look back can you see difference in yourself then and now? Think hard now..cause I promise you he can if there are some. We change..thats true both physically, mentally and emotionaly and ultimatly if he loves you he should accept that as you would him. But...LIKE is that little devil that can make or brake ya. I think..if you work a little on yourself..be selfish for a change in doing a few things just for you. Think of it as self revitalization! He might see more life in you and come around...just a thought..dont shoot me! -Shane

[Shane361]

My H is not the best guy in the world, but I'm not the best W either. We've made a lot of mistakes over the years.

 

Through out this whole thing I have been very wishy-washy. I've tried sticking to the "I don't need you" game plan but always end up falling away from it.

 

I've said I'm going to file. If I back out, its showing him that once again, I've bluffed. If I file, then I may lose him forever.

 

I want one more chance but it might not matter anyway. He doesn't communicate with me so I don't know what is going on in his head. One day he says he doesn't want a divorce and was thinking of working things out, the next day the idea doesn't seem to bother him.

 

Guess if nothing else, its not final for 60 days after I file. I can file now and I can go with Plan B in the meantime?

 

 

Wishy washy is not a good trait and its good to see you realize that. For instance....when dealing with your children you have threats that you dont follow up on? If you tell you kid not to play ball in the house or he will get it and then he brakes a lamp and you do nothing what does that display? Dont say something unless you mean it and if you mean it then follow up on it. Words are very damaging. I hope that you have learned from your own mistakes as well. You admit to them here and have you to him? Sometimes the best start is I realized I have done this that and this and Im sorry and it wont happen again. Not sure if your pride or his could be a factor such as that in this case. I dont know much about the filing. I would say dont until you 100% sure that its what you want. Have you sat down and had a heart to heart? I mean..not just a discussion but some crying heart felt feelings where both are comming to some self realizations about each other and yourself as a person. If not..maybe its time..if you have talked till you blue in the face and its dead..then maybe it is. There is a line and when you cross it...its over. Maybe he had come to that line and you have not. In which case...be civil and get over him and move on. If you ever cross that line then do the same and carry on. -Shane

[Lor]

I've said I'm sorry so many times my throat is hoarse. Matter of fact, I said it again Thursday. I've said it on the phone, in person, by email. Only thing I haven't done was sent flowers and a letter.

 

He's said he's sorry to me too but doesn't know if he will get the feelings back for me that he had. Doesn't know if we can get past everything that has happened.

 

I know I need to be confident. I know I need to quit saying one thing and doing another. I don't sit around and wait for him, I've gone out with friends, ate dinner by myself.

 

Maybe a good heart to heart tomorrow instead of discussing settlements is a good idea. No crying, no begging, just talk. If I can't hold myself together, I'll leave. I asked him to meet me at his parent's garage--neutral zone--since I know they won't bother us. And if he only wants to discuss the settlement, I'll make sure I have it in the truck.

 

I feel like its all one big game and I don't know the rules.

[Shane361]

OK..dont say sorry too much. I'd apologise and then move forward with following up on not doing it again if allowed to do so. As he should also be doing. If you brake down..its fine. Its only who you are and what your going through. Dont be to proud to display that in front of him. If you two are gonna get passed this then that might be what will help the most. Then again you know him more than I do and possibly it isnt best for his personality. Maybe too much emotion is too much for him. I wish I could tell you which is the better one. Good luck and keep me updated-Shane

[Billy Bob]

Guess if nothing else, its not final for 60 days after I file. I can file now and I can go with Plan B in the meantime?

 

Thats right, file and go plan B. Another hint for you, it doesn't have to be "final" even after your divorced. Your husband can come crawling back after your divorced as well.. if you let him.

 

There are people who get divorced, realize they made a mistake and remarry.

 

Like I have said before.. people want what they can't have! Emotions really mess with us and keep us from seeing the real picture. If your husband is really on the fence and would actually want to mend things with you, then filing divorce papers will be his wakeup call.

If he truly doesn't want to save the marriage, then good for you in 60 days you'll be divorced and you will know for sure what he's thinking.

 

Being wishy-washy just prolongs everything, help him make a decision by making a decision without him.

[Billy Bob]

I think a followed-through upon divorce is the only way your going to get your husband back (if you still want him).

 

Your husband and the other woman are playing in a fantasy world and when you have left him, when he is free and single there will be pressure for her to do likewise. When their relationship has to face reality is when it will start to breakdown. Only when it had gotten to this point will he maybe see what he lost.

 

Stick to your guns and don't back down. You have to be a woman who respects herself and have your own sense of self-worth. If you are apologetic and stay while he is having an affair you devalue yourself.

 

Just remember, there is a guy out there somewhere looking to meet someone just like you. An honest, faithful, caring partner. I think your so wrapped up in this hell you call a marriage that you have forgotten why you got married in the first place.. love, integrity, partnership, romance, etc.. If all of these elements are gone, why continue to pursue them with him? Are you just addicted to the relationship? Really, step back and take a good look. Would you date someone else who treated you like this? Would you marry someone else who treated you like this?

 

Take care of yourself and don't worry about him.

[Lor]

CTA, are you feeling okay? I think that's the nicest post I've read from you yet! :lmao:

 

But, honestly, thank you. You're right. Everything you wrote you are right. That's what I've been thinking about all morning. He's supposed to let me know sometime today if he isn't busy tonight so we can discuss the settlement. And it rather irritates me to think that, the most important decision he has to make, to save our marriage or not to, and he puts it on the backburner behind everything else. And I do have to wonder, do I want to save this marriage with the way he is now? I still love him, no matter what, because I know the man he is underneath it all, but this guy??.......this one is a stranger. I'd started calling him Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde this past year cuz that's what he does.

 

The man I fell in love with is honest, hardworking, dependable, loving, tender, frugal, loyal, trustworthy....the guy that I see now is a jerk.

 

I think what I will do tonight, IF he decides he wants to talk is to be firm but calm and lay it all out. About how I've said I'm sorry, what is he looking for if we were to work it out, what he sees in our future, and then I'm gonna start laying down the law. Again, firmly but calmly. No hysterics. He is to to start working on our marriage instead of putting us last on his things to do. He will do something about his depression, he will start talking to me about what is going on. I'm going to tell him that we will need to at least try MC, but even I don't put much stock in it. He will get her completely out of the picture, no compromise, no turning back to her once he's made the decision to work on us (if he does). And that I will expect him to allow me to see that she is gone. I can't stop him from talking to her at work but I'll be danged if I'll see her number show up on any phone bills and have to deal with any of that BS again. I will let him know that if he wants to talk it over with her, get her opinion, fine (probably will anyway). If she's been honest with me, she will push him towards this too. If they've been lying to me all along, this should show it if he won't make the effort.

 

One of the things he has said that is holding him back is he doesn't think he can give it 100%, and I know he has no idea how to go about working on us. The last time he said he was thinking of working on it with me he was planning on taking me away for a weekend, just the two of us. That's something I can't do yet. I've been burned too many times through out all this.

 

And I know what you say about divorcing, then starting over, but that's something that I don't know if I have the courage to do. Its gonna take everything I have to let him back in one more time if he decides to start working on us.

 

If anyone else has any more suggestions for me, I'd gladly listen to them.

[Ladyjane14]

I wouldn't file for divorce until I wanted a divorce. The exception would be if I was having difficulty establishing a child support and visitation agreement with my spouse. In that case, I would be sure to file first.

 

If what you REALLY want is to stay married, and if the current dynamics allow for support and visitation.... where's the fire?

[Lor]

I guess because it feels like this is never going to go anywhere. He's had a year (Aug 1st) to have started to deal with this and he won't. There's always something to do to occupy his mind so he doesn't have to think about us.

 

No, I don't want a divorce but am to the point where I wonder, what is the point? Do I wait another month, 6 months, year? Maybe he'd come back to me and want to try again. Or in a year, after waiting again, to have him finally say that no, he doesn't want to try any more. And in the meantime, I still have to deal with the emotional baggage of "why won't he try?"

 

I know I'd advised UK in his thread to wait and give it time. 8 weeks IMO isn't long enough to make a valid decision one way or the other. But 53 weeks should have been.

[Shane361]

Guess you just need to seriously ask yourself "Is this relationship EVER going to work?". You know the answer more than anyone yet Im sure you dont think you do. But there comes a time when drastic measures are called for. If it takes filing for divorce and settling everything then do so. But there's also that chance that in doing so he will completly give up on the relationship. If your not happy...do it. You can only try so hard and for so long before you need change in a positive direction and if he isnt in with you so be it-Shane

[Lor]

IF he would try it would work. IF he would make a serious effort it would work. I could do the IF game constantly, and have, but am now wondering if I'm only living in a fantasy world wishing he will fall on bended knee, begging me to please take him back.

 

I need to think more on my game plan tonight, if it'll even happen. There's so much I've missed out on this past year; his BF wedding--I left early cuz I caught him talking to her on his cell, our friends wedding next weekend cuz its family only and..well, I just can't go. I've missed out on a couple of Nascar races with our friends since I can't deal with his treating me like I'm invisible or just a friend. Other things that our friends have done that I don't want to go to because the "friend" of ours that hit on me may be there, and I don't want to make anyone uncomfortable. So many different little things.

 

All I do know is that IF he did make the effort, we could have a wonderful marriage, from all we've learned through out this. We could be stronger and grow closer to each other.

 

I don't know what to think. Maybe I could find someone else eventually. Not that I really want to try right now. And maybe that's part of my problem....I'm hung up on him cuz I don't know any better. Oh, who knows. Here I go again, back and forth.

 

I will talk to him tonight to find out where he stands. I'll have the divorce papers with me and the settlement agreement and I'll give him both (computer backup--don't worry). Let him look at them for a few days and maybe when I get back with the kids it will have sunk in that I have had enough of riding the fence.

[Shane361]

It's very common at this point in a persons marriage to believe that the grass is not greener on the other side. You try with all your heart to make it work even if it's uncapable. This is the wrong reason of course and only delaying the enebitable instead of dealing with reality. No one expects you to divorse and find someone. I would say issues if you did. It would be a good time to find out who you are again as a single individual. Some time for schooling maybe some time at a gym which always makes a person feel better about themselves. It is very possible to find happiness after marriage and happens everyday. Please dont let this incredibly big step discourage you from doing what is in your best interest and your kids....if indeed it is the rite course of action.

When you confront him do as you said. Be honest, considerate and truthful. Tell him you love him and that you want to make it work. Tell him what you expect in order for it to work. Base you decision off his reply.-Shane

[Lor]

Well, he emailed to ask if we could talk when I get back from MN since he is busy tonight. So this is what I sent back:

 

I was hoping we could talk first before going over the settlement about where things stand with you on our marriage. don't take this the wrong way since I realize you are busy and do need to get this done for Mike, and you doing this kind of work is something you've been wanting to do for a long time, which I'm happy for you that you can. But you keep puting other "projects" before dealing with what I consider the biggest project you should have; our marriage. There is always something else you need to be doing. Now you started something else that is more important.

 

Since I can't talk to you about it before we leave, I'll spell it out now. You need to tell me where you stand on things. Its been 53 weeks since all this started and you've had enough time to figure out what you want. You either want me in your life or you don't. If you don't, fine, I will file when I get back and the papers are signed. If you do, you will a) do something about your depression, b) go to marriage counselling with me at least a few times--I don't know if it would do any good either but we'd have to try to find out, c) start working on this marriage with a complete commitment. I know there will be good days and bad days and I don't expect anything less. It will not be easy, it will be the hardest thing either one of us will ever do. I will treat you with the utmost respect and expect the same from you, you will not have anything to do with Lisa ever again, I will not go out with my friends from work any more, and we will leave the past in the past, and that includes her. It will still be there but if we've learned from it it would only make our marriage stronger. I would require commitment from you, and would require proof for a while that it is completely over with you and her--you've backpedaled on that too many times for me to take it for face value that you aren't talking to her. Talk it over with her if you feel you need to--she's the only one who knows anything of what you are feeling. If you've been honest with me that you are only friends then maybe you need her input. If you are still lying to me and you two are planning on trying it together when I'm gone, then you'll have a good laugh over this.

 

If you have any love left for me at all, you will face your fears and deal with the problem of us. If our marriage means anything to you, if I mean anything to you, if us having an intact family means anything to you, you will make the effort--a real effort this time. And I will do the same. If our marriage means nothing and I mean nothing, then I am moving on. I am moving on anyway, with or without you. We will stay friends for the kids but don't expect me to get the divorce and still be waiting for you to snap out of this. You are not Rob and I am not Shannon--they were lucky. When this is final I doubt we will ever have a future together again. If you cannot find it in you to work on becoming the man I know you to be inside then please don't even try because I do not like the man you have become and do not want that man in my life. You have laid the blame for all this on me and have twisted things around so that you are the victim here. An example is how I moved out. I asked you to ask me to stay almost every day and you kept saying we needed to separate to try and make this work. But now, you keep saying that it was my choice to move out--from talking with Lisa you make it sound like it was something I wanted to do. And only you and Lisa know if you have made any effort to come to some sort of a decision.

 

If you decide to work on us, we will start off slow and date occassionally. I believe we can rekindle what we lost between us, get our friendship back, and have a very fulfilling marriage because we've both learned a lot from this. We would take it day by day and not rush into anything. You've put us off long enough. And I'm through letting you do it to me and our family.

 

If you decide you are ready to work with me, put aside your fears and give us both a chance then we will start working on that when we get back. We both still have a lot of growing and changing to do. If you are not willing to take the risk or can't commit to the risk of us having a solid, loving marriage again, then I am going to rebuilt my life. I know I've been flip-flopping myself and haven't handled any of this very well. But I've been doing a lot of thinking myself. I can make a life without you, I can be happy without you, I can even probably find love again. But I'd rather grow with you, grow old with you, fight, make up, laugh, cry and live the rest of my life with you. I believe you are worth the effort. Now, am I worth the effort it would take you? Or will you one day look up and realize what all you lost.

 

I'll print out the settlement agreement--I've made some revisions and the divorce papers and drop them off to you tonight. If you're not home, I'll leave them on the bar. Think long and hard about it while we are gone. This is not a bluff, this is not emotions, this is the last and final chance you will have. If you decide you won't ever be able to work on us, go get the ones notorized that need to be done and then give them back to me and I'll get mine notorized and file. If there is anything in the settlement you want revised or added, let me know and I'll deal with it then.

 

I didn't want to do this on email. I wanted to do it face to face but I know I will not see you before we get back. Make a decision, Gary. I apologize if this came across as harsh or emotional because it is not. I am resolved to deal with your decision whatever you decide and am fully able to either love you the way you should be loved or divorce you and start over.

 

Laura

 

Did I do the right thing? Any help or comments are welcome

[ThumbingMyWay]

Did I do the right thing?

 

yes you did. I know face to face is what you wanted, but at least now you had a chance to articulate exactly what your position is.

 

if he dont get it now hon, I dont know if he every will.

 

 

I just wanted to point out that you are an attractive women, and many men would love to have someone just like you. if worst case happens.....use everything you have learned to make yourself and your next relationship better.

 

You are a good person and people like you.....dont let your insecurity mask goodness that people see in you.

 

This is the turning point for you...and you MUST stick to your plan...DO not waiver anymore. Yes it will be a tuff road....emotional draining...but Lor, its time to get logical and leave your insecurities behind. Do what cta, me and others have said on UK threads.....show that you are OK and moving on....your hubby is a fence sitting cake eater and YOU need to push him off. and to do so....you need to go to a strong Plan B....

[Lor]

if he dont get it now hon, I dont know if he every will.

 

guess now its "wait and see" time. I'll be leaving tomorrow from work--thank goodness my oldest came home with me from WI and can help me drive to MN--and back home by Sunday. If I don't hear from him when I get back that will be my answer. And I am prepared, at least at the moment, to deal with whichever path he decides. The reality may be another story.

 

Many men would like me? Oh, are you offering? Maybe someday but not now. Right now I carry as much bagagge as a royal family travelling with their entourage on safari. Besides, for the first time in my life, I am starting to believe I am attractive and have something to offer and that is a part of me that still needs a lot of work!

[Billy Bob]

Ahhh, Lor, your self-esteem is really low right now and that is understandable (and normal) with what you have gone through. You are dealing with rejection from your primary partner and it has created both conscious and unconscious damage to your ego.

 

Go plan B, whether you file for divorce right now or not. Work on your own self-esteem. Get to the point where you don't need your husband to make you happy... if somehow it works out between you to, great, but learn to value yourself as an attractive person that many people would like to get to know.

 

You look like a really attractive gal and I am sure you won't have any trouble finding a really nice guy who values a relationship with you in the future (when your ready). Just the thoughtfullness in your posts shows the kind of person you are.

 

Take care of yourself.

[Shane361]

Yeah...23,456 that your a cutie for shizzle;)

[Lor]

Yeah...23,456 that your a cutie for shizzle;)

 

huh?

 

Thanks for the words of encouragement, they mean a lot, from everyone.

[Shane361]

huh?

 

Thanks for the words of encouragement, they mean a lot, from everyone.

 

Just stating the obvious like the rest..that your a cutie and will have no problems dating. -Shane

[Gunny376]

Shane, check out my other threads if you want to read the horrid state of my marriage.

 

What do I want? My husband back because I love him. My children to have their parents back together in a loving environment. I want the passion, the love, the tears, the pain, the joy, the contentment, the forgiveness, all of it.

 

Then fight for it! To the F**king bitter end! Fight for it! Hell and damnation! Whatever may come! I would be ready for this! Bring it the F**k on!

 

That would be my attitude toward it! But, I'm a retired United States Marine ~ and they've engrainded that into me! Bring it on! Let's go! Let's get in the dirt! By God~!

 

What are you going to do? Shave my head, call me a MF, and ship me off to Vietnam and have people shot at me? Have people plant "bouning Betty's" mines to take off my manhood!

 

Bring it on!