Do I or Don't I?

July 27, 2006

Why don't people tell you what they see? I mean, puhlease:rolleyes:

I went to this wedding once where everyone was practically making book on how long it would last. And we were right--it lasted about 3 years.

Maybe if that part in the ceremony about the objections were changed to allow everyone to stand up and say what has them concerned about this union things'd be better.

The best man at our wedding told us where he saw we were gonna have problems, and darn if he wasn't right! We've made it, but what he saw gave us a heads up on a perennial issue so we could do something about it proactively.

July 28, 2006

Poor little lost lamb, isn't he?
People irritate the crap out of me sometimes! I find it amazing that it doesn't bother some people to look in the mirror and see a lying, cheating scumbag looking back. What kind of world do we live in where Honor means less than nothing.... to abandon the family just for the sake of self-gratification?

How can there be personal happiness for people who lack integrity?

You know, I'm not a marriage-at-all-costs person, but DAMN!.... most of your garden variety marital problems can be worked out. And when it comes to the point where it can't be worked out anymore, the least a WS could do would be to NOT be a chickensh*t about it by jerking his partner around.

What a d*ck.

Thanks again for another of your wonderful insights LadyJane! Here I thought I was just and old dinorsour. As you know, I'm a retired United States Marine. My honor and integrity are very much an intergal part of me. They're very much a part of my "center" ~ my code.

I use to have a really bad temper ~ would fight at the drop of a dime. About the only thing that will cause me to do so now ~ is if someone challenges my honor and integrity. To me, you lose that ~ you've got nothing. No self respect! Goodnight Iriene ~ you've lost your self esteem.

To be honest, I'm a bit of a Boy Scout ~ still. I wasn't the wayward spouse. I never cheated. I hung my azz up on lover's cross though. It cost me, I paid. But, I can go to my grave and know I more than in many ways I more than did right by the EX and the children, I did the honorable thing. The righteouse thing.

Ilmw gave the final piece to the puzzel that I've been looking for 16 years (Thanks Bro). I know ~ now ~ that much of it was situtational. And, that now its just a bunch of

Could have, should have, ought to have's and "Yea, buts,....................."

July 31, 2006

good morning to all. I went and had the divorce papers notarized this weekend and will give them to him tonight.....

Figured I would go, ask if anything has changed and if he says no, then I'll hand him the papers, tell him where to get them notarized and just drive away. I've debated about puting in a note saying thank you for 11 good years but what's the point? There's nothing I could put to paper that I haven't already said at one time or another. Tomorrow will be exactly one year to the day that all this started.

Funny thing, my son's friend that is going to be staying with us said that he didn't think my H would like the idea of him going over there during his weeks with the kids. He said my H doesn't seem like he's the same person he used to be; can't get him to laugh anymore and he acts different. Bingo!! Its really sad when a 17 yr old can see what the H can't see.

I wanted to call him this weekend but managed not to. I wanted to ask my in-laws about him--they were all in TN for some friends wedding--another thing I had to miss out on since I'm not "family" now and someone needed to stay with the kids. But I didn't. He rode down there with a woman and the thought of that was driving me insane until I realized that he wouldn't bring someone else with him like that in front of his parents. I know some of you are going to say "yeah, right" but trust me--his Mom would never stand for it. He will have a hard time doing that around her for a while even after we're divorced. I'm pretty sure it was one of the bridesmaids and maybe they weren't even alone--don't know, didn't ask. She'll have to deal with him having other women around but she won't right now, that I know for a fact. She'd rip him a new one no question--she's not shy about it.

So, still NC, although this weekend was a little more difficult. Still living though so that's a start...

July 31, 2006

So if I'm actually resolved to taking this route, why do I feel like my insides are being ripped apart?

July 31, 2006

Lor,

I am proud of you, seems that you are getting off the fence and doing it. I won't try to be overly positive, but just as in my situation, he doesn't seem to want to work on it, and as people have told me, one person CANNOT make a marriage work. Your's was alot longer, and for that I am truly sorry, but you are taking a gigantic step.

Why do you feel like you're being ripped apart? Cause you're human, and you have a heart. You were with him a long time and there is no way that you can feel great about it. I have read there is no such thing as a nice divorce, and I believe it. As cordial as both of you are, there will be some hurt feelings. Think about it, the man that you were with, had children with, shared a good part of your adult life, is now an advisary of yours. And that will hurt. But it's that pain that still lets you know that you are alive and that you are a caring, loving person. Just like you told me, I tell you: you will be better off eventually. It will hurt like hell for a while, I am no where close to the end of the hurt. But, I am getting better, just like you are. Concentrate on the good parts of life. You are re-doing your house, you have a son to think about and work on you. God bless you, and your family. If you sit and dwell on the bad parts of everything, then you will be miserable, depressed, etc. That's one thing that I can tell you from expierence. I was so down and out because I was concentrating on the bad parts of my life; once I started looking at the reality and concentrating on the good parts of my life, I have actually started to feel alot better. I am sober, have lost 30+ lbs, my house looks spectacular, and feel much more confident and secure about being alone. Sure, it still hurts when I hear a song, see something that we enjoyed, etc, but I am finding the moments like that are slowly going away. And despite the fact that you have been at this a whole lot longer, I think that you are alot better off than you will admit to yourself. Others will see It, and then you will see it. Whatever happens, try to be positive; if not for you, for your kid(s). If you want a vote of reassurance, know that you have helped me immensley through this ordeal of mine, and for that I will be grateful for a very long time. Heck, I'll send ya pictures of my first kid! Just kiddin, That will be a long time coming, I am sure. My mom wants grandkids, but is glad that she only has one (my brother's 4 yr old step-daughter) at this point.

Good on ya, and keep your chin up.

July 31, 2006

Thanks, Me. Your words mean a lot right now--got me tearing up actually. These past fews days I've felt my resolve slipping again, didn't want to, and was wishing for someone to help pull me thru. I kept thinking what people on LS would say and knew in my heart I had to remain strong.

I feel like raging again. You know the drill; this isn't fair, this isn't what I want, how the hell can he still be doing this to us, why won't he wake up, blah blah blah. I've said it all so much I'm tired of even thinking it. Its only that....he is a good man. And I know what you are going thru, what it feels like. I've heard him called a d*ck, a jerk, a loser. But he's really not, no more than your W is really truely and honestly a bad person. If they were that bad, would we have fallen for them? They must have been worth something to us once, right? But, I know, people change. And its so hard. When I talk to him, its like he filters out what he wants and doesn't want, and that's why he's been able to turn this around and make it all my fault, I moved, I'm filing the divorce. And that really bothers me because, no matter how many times I try to explain that this is not what I want, that I didn't want to move, so on and so forth, its like he's deaf. I know, I know, he's letting me be the bad guy so he doesn't have to shoulder any of the blame.

Maybe I'll be better off. Maybe I'll always be miserable. Only time will tell on that. Yeah, I have a house I have to finish now so I can sell it, move farther away and start completely over. I still have to stay close cuz of my kids and my in-laws and I'll have to live in the area for at least the next 13 years till my daughter graduates HS. I try to concentrate on the good things; everything new is an adventure. I'm making some plans--going to TN this weekend either with friends or myself if not, am going to book a caribbean vacation this winter by myself--just have to decide where. a couple of years ago I was checking into a ski vacation in VA--you'll have to give me some advice on the best place since I bought a new set of skis that haven't seen snow yet. Keep working on new things in my house--my neighbors even call me a jack of all trades--and learning new home improvement things.

At least this is amicable--we have made every effort to remain decent for the kids, even puting a clause in the divorce that neither of us will defame the other to family, kids, and friends. What is hard is seeing the looks he gives me, like he's wounded and that I'm the one giving up. And what bothers me the most is wondering if I am giving up too easy and too soon, saying that this hurts him, too. He's playing me, I know. There isn't a time limit on this; he could go on like this for 5 years for all I know. And in the meantime I am crumbling, trying to rebuilt, only to fall apart again.

But thank you. For all the words of encouragement and.....well, everything. If I hadn't found this site, with all the people on it who have been there done that, even if I disagree, its comforting to know that other people do care and are here to listen to my very wordy and lengthy bouts of self-pity.

Laura works well as a middle name........

July 31, 2006

HI there-

I haven't read your thread before today. I can only keep so many straight at one time. I just wanted to say....

hang in there-

No, you're not giving up too easy. If he would have given you an indication he wanted to work on the marriage then that would have been one thing, but he didn't. He has still been running around with OW.

You'll feel better, I promise. It may not seem like it right now, but you're going to get there!

July 31, 2006

I'm trying to hang in there--some days are harder than others. He's given me indications that he doesn't want a divorce but yet he's put no effort into us.

He's not running around with the OW but yet he won't let her go either--guess its about the same thing. he'd told me a while back that he sees her sometimes in the mornings at the gas station. When I told him to start going to a different one or change the time he shops there, he looked at me like I was crazy.

I like to be in control of things, which is why so much of this has damaged me so badly because I have not had control of myself or the situation for so long now.

Maybe tonight, when I hand him the signed papers, he'll realize that I am dead serious, and am moving on. That this isn't just words this time.

Oh, man, this really stinks.

July 31, 2006

He's not running around with the OW but yet he won't let her go either--guess its about the same thing. he'd told me a while back that he sees her sometimes in the mornings at the gas station. When I told him to start going to a different one or change the time he shops there, he looked at me like I was crazy.

So, forgive me if you've covered this, but if he's not seeing her or someone else- what are his reasons for not coming home??

I think it's a case of he doesn't want ya- or to have to go to the financial considerations of a divorce- and he doesn't want anyone else to have ya!

July 31, 2006

So if I'm actually resolved to taking this route, why do I feel like my insides are being ripped apart?

You're doing someting that you really don't want to do. Your still in the grieving process.

Grieving for what was, for could have been. Greviing for what was "the promise" of your marriage when you and he started this whole thing. Grieving for the good time ~ the best of times.

Because of the fear of the un-known, un-certainty. Because you don't have any hard,concerete absolute answers to the questions and solutions. You feel that you're about to step off into the abyssis.

Because you're still on the emotional rollercoaster, E-ride from Hell. And, its about to get even harder ~ tougher, and even more scarier. And, all you can do is get in, sit down, shut up, grab a hold on, and "white knuckle" it to he bitter end!

August 1, 2006

Gunny, you said it and I feel it, just as I am sure Lor is. The words that I was trying to come up with seems to flow out of your lips, good on ya.

Lor, not sure about skiing, never tried it myself. I went to a cold place on my honeymoon( again, in the spirit of anonymity, I am not saying where) and was too afraid and broke to try and ski. When you have a plate and 13 screws in your lower leg, you tend to think a little different about barrelling down a hill on frozen water ;-) But from what I hear, Snowshoe in WV is really good. There are a few in the mountains of VA but I am a little far to get there in a decent time. Done it once, won't do it again for a while.

As far as TN goes, I love Gaitlinburg and Pigeon forge. Great tourist traps, but the park is awesome. That is on my short list of destinations when and if I take the plunge in a few years.

Thanks for the kind words. Its always nice to be appreciated. I may not be able to say it all right, but I try and if it affects one person, then I have done the right thing. If not, I will try again. Never forget who you are inside, despite of what you are feeling right now, this too shall pass. As gunny said, get in..... that e-ride is a SOB, and there is no stopping it. Think about a real amusment park. You get in and the car takes off; once you leave the station, you are in it till you pull back in. Whether you like it or not, you have to be there until the end of the ride. That's what you are doing, only in this case, we don't know where or when the end is. And that's what sucks in this situation. But just know this, If God(or whomever you seek) brings you to it, he'll bring ya through it.

And Laura would be a great middle name, I'll keep that in mind if I ever have a girl. If its a boy.....I don't know bout that one ;0-)

Hang in there, you;re doing great.

August 1, 2006

Well, he's actually still in the house; I bought my own house and moved out in May--cheaper than renting. As far as him not coming back to me, he says its because he's not sure what he wants, doesn't know if we can make it work, doesn't know if we can get past everything that happened.

It's all a bunch of BS at this point. I handed him the divorce papers last night. He was more concerned about the amount I had figured up that he owed me in the divorce than the divorce itself. We got into it pretty good--I didn't want to and should have walked away. But dummy me I didn't.

He said he hasn't been able to work on figuring anything out because I haven't given him "space" or whatever. Because of the emotional rollercoaster I've been on, the ups and downs. He said that when our friends separated, they were away from each other, NC, for a year and a half. Now they are back together and married again. I haven't given him that, even though its been a year today. Big difference between them and us; they both knew it was completely over--they were never getting back together and swore they were thru. Me? I've had no closure, no answers. This isn't the same thing as them at all. This is one person trying to save her marriage and the other dangling her from a string and constantly changing his mind.

He actually had the nerve to tell me that his friendship with OW was no different that his friendship with a guy we both know and that it would be like me telling him he can't talk to him anymore. Oh Bullsh*t. Big huge difference.

So anyway, its over. All he has to do is sign the papers and I'll file. After talking to him last night, I keep seeing how he was looking right thru me and I really realized that I don't know this guy anymore and don't honestly want to be married to him anymore. This guy is, as LJ put it, a d*ck.

August 2, 2006

Thanks for the nice compliments, Lor. I have to admit though... I have a history of being rather shy. So much so that in my school days, I used to get embarrassed just answering roll call. I'm blushing my head off right now!

Anyway, I've read through most of your posts over the last few weeks... and the feeling I get from them is that your husband wants to live like a man who's single. You've been separated for about a year now, and he has more or less been doing just that. At the same time, he still wants to be a part of your family though.

The most likely problem is that he's been allowed to do both. This guy either needs to be 'IN' or 'OUT'. Being IN means that he's living in the home as a husband and father, and maintaining an integral role in the family dynamic. Being OUT means that Lor is no longer available to him on a personal level in ANY capacity. His relationship with the children would then be his responsibility.

You can't be his friend or companion with a guy who chooses to be OUT. He's giving you half-measures. He's not really "on the fence". He's jumped over it and he's long gone. He's just left the door open behind him in case he changes his mind later on down the pike.

I handed him the divorce papers last night. He was more concerned about the amount I had figured up that he owed me in the divorce than the divorce itself.

We got into it pretty good--I didn't want to and should have walked away. But dummy me I didn't.

He said he hasn't been able to work on figuring anything out because I haven't given him "space" or whatever. Because of the emotional rollercoaster I've been on, the ups and downs. He said that when our friends separated, they were away from each other, NC, for a year and a half. Now they are back together and married again. I haven't given him that, even though its been a year today. Big difference between them and us; they both knew it was completely over--they were never getting back together and swore they were thru. Me? I've had no closure, no answers. This isn't the same thing as them at all.

You've stated that he's upset about the money. Too bad.

Financial decisions have to be made... and he's going to have to deal with that reality. The settlement agreement that you arrive at now will have to last you for as long as it takes to raise your children. Get EVERYTHING you can. Be pleasant. Be courteous. But get the job done. It's your kid's future you're protecting. You're just a woman doing the best she can to take care of her family, right?

He's complained about you not giving him enough space. Well... I think we ALL know that he just wants to use that space so he can act like he's single. I'm sure he'd dearly love a 'marriage sabatical' where he can go do his thing and keep you percolating on the back-burner.

180's will make him wonder what YOU do with your time. He doesn't see you as a strong woman who might LEAVE HIM. Not yet, anyway.

You can keep him guessing by utilizing these 180's. He needs to wonder if the back door he left wedged open is still going to be there for him later.

I'm not sure that you've ever done a stirling Plan A, Lor.

I don't know you in person.... but your energy comes off as a bit frenetic and anxious. It's time for this boy to see what he's going to be missing. He needs to see your serenity, your fortitude, your emotional fearlessness.

He's called all the shots so far. No more. It's time for you to show him a woman who is in CONTROL of her situation. She makes her own decisions, and she does so with grace, intelligence, and even elegance.

I'm sure you've read up on Plan A and Plan B. I would use the 180's in conjunction with Plan A for about 6-8 weeks, barring any changes in circumstance. I would move forward with divorce, but I'd keep the pace of it slow. Then I'd give him the Plan B letter and go dark.

The nice thing about Plan B is that it works well both ways. If the WS comes back... great. If not, you're learning how to move on without him.

You need to be taking baby steps in that direction anyway, Lor. You don't NEED this guy. You want him. There's a difference. And once you start believing in yourself, you'll start to ACT that way too. Emotional self-reliance is an attractive quality. The 180's in conjunction with Plan A will show him your new self-confidence. More than likely, he's going to find the changes fairly intriguing.

I want you to consider staying off the sauce for awhile, btw. I noticed it as a self-medicating behavior in another thread. If your anxiety isn't well controlled talk to your doctor about it. You might also look into some meditative and deep breathing techniques, prayer (if you're so inclined), and yoga or tai chi. A concerted effort toward relaxation will help you find balance.

August 2, 2006

I've had no closure, no answers. This isn't the same thing as them at all. This is one person trying to save her marriage and the other dangling her from a string and constantly changing his mind.

What kind of answers would you want sweetie?? What answers would make it okay for you??

I don't understand people when their relationship ends and they say they want closure. No, what you want is a answer to a question that's not ever going to make sense to you in the first place.

The truth is, you've had closure. You've had answers. He doesn't want to be married and committed. He wants to live single.

You're waiting on words from him to indicate what's going on with him- judge more by his ACTIONS. His actions have told you what's going on with him.

He's eating cake. And LJ is right, he will continue to eat cake as long as you allow him to.

I think you should go dark- Plan B. No contact unless it's about the kids. No coming over to visit, no chatty chatty with him. Period. If he calls and it's not emergency concerning the kids you do not talk to him.

LJ is right about the drinking. Just don't do it- it can lead no where good. If you're having trouble sleeping or with anxiety- and Good Lord knows you're bound to be- then see a dr.

August 3, 2006

Thanks for the nice compliments, Lor. I have to admit though... I have a history of being rather shy. So much so that in my school days, I used to get embarrassed just answering roll call. I'm blushing my head off right now!

Anyway, I've read through most of your posts over the last few weeks... and the feeling I get from them is that your husband wants to live like a man who's single. You've been separated for about a year now, and he has more or less been doing just that. At the same time, he still wants to be a part of your family though.

The most likely problem is that he's been allowed to do both. This guy either needs to be 'IN' or 'OUT'. Being IN means that he's living in the home as a husband and father, and maintaining an integral role in the family dynamic. Being OUT means that Lor is no longer available to him on a personal level in ANY capacity. His relationship with the children would then be his responsibility.

You can't be his friend or companion with a guy who chooses to be OUT. He's giving you half-measures. He's not really "on the fence". He's jumped over it and he's long gone. He's just left the door open behind him in case he changes his mind later on down the pike.

We got into it pretty good--I didn't want to and should have walked away. But dummy me I didn't.

He said he hasn't been able to work on figuring anything out because I haven't given him "space" or whatever. Because of the emotional rollercoaster I've been on, the ups and downs. He said that when our friends separated, they were away from each other, NC, for a year and a half. Now they are back together and married again. I haven't given him that, even though its been a year today. Big difference between them and us; they both knew it was completely over--they were never getting back together and swore they were thru. Me? I've had no closure, no answers. This isn't the same thing as them at all.