Do I or Don't I?

[Lor]

Then fight for it! To the F**king bitter end! Fight for it! Hell and damnation! Whatever may come! I would be ready for this! Bring it the F**k on!

 

:lmao: Thanks Gunny. But the war is over, hon. I'm at the negotiations table and its time to see if the other side wants be allies or enemies. I've fought the war, albeit not very well most of the time, performed many tactical manuevers, and have pulled out the heavy artillery many times. But the tide has turned. Its time to pull back the troops and regroup. I wouldn't call it a retreat per say....more like restocking and refortifying the central structure.

 

.........my Dad was a marine and so was my brother.......or should I say "once a Marine, always a Marine!" You guys are the toughest bad*sses there are!

[Lor]

Hey all. Back from the trip with the kids. It all went well and am glad we missed the sniper on I-65 in Indy!

 

Well, no comment from the other side yet. Guess its now wait and see. I had to drive by his place last night to drop my youngest boy off at H's parents and saw as I drove by that he was sitting...slouching more like...in front of the TV. Its not something he'd normally do. And no, I don't make it a habit to peek in on him--I could see him plain as day.

 

BUT!! Other than emailing to say where the kids are today I haven't contacted him. I've read my two support letters I've taped to my cubicle walls and am following them. About time, I know! I didn't call while we were up North and I won't call now. I don't have the kids till Fri so maybe he'll try and come over to talk. If not by then, guess I have my answer, huh? Otherwise, I'll print the documents out, go get my part notarized and then give it to him next week.

 

Then I will go get sh*tfaced and party in TN the weekend after that!! And I won't call........

 

(sigh)....this still sucks though. I can do it now--

[Gunny376]

that you sent him. I thought it was honest and balanced, sufficently informative, thought provoking without coming across as too weak or needy.

 

The only thing I would add would be a P.S:

 

And, if you're not interested in me, I've got a retied Marine Gunny in Alabama that interested in making a deposit in my love bank with an option to buy! So make up your mind! Life is too short! So many men ~ so little time!"

 

But, seriously! I'm going to side with CTA on this one. I'd drop tha bomb on him. Divorce ain't no joke, Jack! My XW told me the reason that she was going to divorce me was because I had to change, and I wouldn't change, so she was going to divorce me to make me change. That's it! That's all I ever got out of her?

 

I stumbbled and fumbled for years walking around like a idiot with my pants down around my ankles, lost, dazed and confused, with my brain housing group short circuited, and sparks coming out my rears from the short circuit disconnect. I thought I was going to have to become a wino, laying in the ditch ~ just to begin to get my self respect back? It tripped me up and I mean ~ bad! All I could think was WTF? over and over and over again?

 

Then the Storms of Life just kept rolling and rolling in one right after the other. I begin thinking,......................"I must have been a Nazi SS Deathcamp Guard or something in a previous life to be served up all of this?"

 

You know what? I finally got "it" I finally understand. I was approaching my marriage as though it was another "field problem" very rationally and logically, systematically, logistically,............LOL! Duh? I was also going hyper-attentivness, and PTSD big time.

 

My wife divorced me ~ because it was the only way she could get through all of my defenses and walls I had mentally and emotioally put up.

There was this hugh mental and emotioal fortress that I had built, and had barbed wired, mined, and manned with MG's. That all crumbled when it got hit with her "D" bomb! She nuked me!! LOL! (I can laugh about ~ now!)

 

With all the trials, tribulations, and tests I've been through, I have to agree with Richard Pryor when he said: "A man getting his heart broke ain't no joke! That **** huuurrrrtttttsss!!!!!!!!! You're not a man until you get your heart broke! You live through that **** Jack ~ you a man!"

[Lor]

And, if you're not interested in me, I've got a retied Marine Gunny in Alabama that interested in making a deposit in my love bank with an option to buy! So make up your mind! Life is too short! So many men ~ so little time!"

 

:lmao: Thanks, Gunny!

 

I wish I could be doing the divorce just to wake him up but don't think it would anyway. Only way he'll wake up is when he's ready to wake up. It feels like he thinks I'm bluffing but this time I'm honestly not--can't do it. its time to move on. Wish I could have someone waiting in the wings but then again, its about time I stood on my own two feet for a while.

 

My Mom told me this weekend about how, when she and my Dad divorced, and her taking care of 7 kids full time, that she had men coming out of the woodwork--most of them married. She didn't believe the Dad I have now until he showed her his divorce papers. And he took on all of us--32 years ago now. There are good men out there, better than I've had. Its only that I don't trust my own instincts anymore when it comes to picking them........

 

I know when I least expect it, the best person will be there for me. Right now I'm gonna be there for myself.

 

I'm probably gonna have to see H tonight; my daughter forgot her doll and she'll need her. He's either going to pick her up or I'll have to drop her off. And honestly, I don't want to. Only reason to is to see my kids.

[dgiirl]

My mom recently told me about my grandmother. She got divorced from a really abusive man. She never did remarry, but there were a LOT of men who wanted to get married to her. But I think she was having so much fun being single, that she didnt want anyone to mess it up. I wish I knew her. I'd love to hear what she'd advise

 

I know when I least expect it, the best person will be there for me. Right now I'm gonna be there for myself.

 

You know, it's really hard to remember this and keep it in my head, but I do believe it will happen. I think once we get on our stable feet and dont depend so much on others for our happiness, once we really come to the point where we dont WANT anyone in our lives, that's when it happens. Not that we should become bitter divorced ladies, but more of reaching that inner peace where we dont care so much about our romantic love lives, we're still fulfilled in our lives. That is when we become the most attractive that things just happen.

 

I'm sorry you're going through this Lor. A year in limbo is really hard. But atleast you know you didnt do anything in anger or in a rash decision. For me, when my therapist asked me if I still felt married, and I answered "Yes", my heart broke. How could I still feel married, when my husband hadnt talked to me in over 3 months? I felt really sad and realized that's NOT what I want my marriage to be like. There comes a point where you really have to make a decision and not wait on HIM to make it. Because, if he's like my exh, he wont make it. He doesnt want to feel the guilt and remorse, so he'd rather just sit there, as long as he wasnt living with me, he couldnt careless. And remember, even if you do get divorced, there's nothing stopping you guys from reconciling. There's a difference between an emotional divorce and a legal divorce. All you are doing right now is preparing for a legal divorce. Going throught the emotional divorce is a lot harder and takes a lot more time. Time and effort. You've probably gone through quiet a lot already. There's probably still more for both of us to do, but we're both stronger now than we were just a year ago.

[Lor]

when my therapist asked me if I still felt married, and I answered "Yes", my heart broke.

 

Yep, that's how I feel.

 

if he's like my exh, he wont make it. He doesnt want to feel the guilt and remorse, so he'd rather just sit there, as long as he wasnt living with me, he couldnt careless.

 

He sounds just like my H. Why should he have to make a decision when, if he waits long enough, I'll do it for both of us. His name is listed under "procrastinator" in the dictionary.

 

There's probably still more for both of us to do, but we're both stronger now than we were just a year ago.

 

yes we are. Amen for small miracles that we've survived and actually came out the other end better than we went in.

 

My mom and 2 of my sisters told me this weekend that I shouldn't be walking away with nothing from the marriage--I've only asked that the kids names be put on the house. I know I'm getting the sharp end of the stick but don't know if I have the courage to go after more. I could get half of the equity in the house, which is a very nice sum. It would help me out a lot but I'd have to look myself in the mirror and be able to live with doing that to him. It would ruin him financially, something I don't want to do. Don't know which way to go on it so I'm gonna hang for a while and keep considering.

 

As far as getting back together if we do divorce--shame on me for still saying if--I don't honestly know if I could at this point. He has really hurt me, with a lot of different things he's done, and I don't know if I'll be able to go back after a divorce, to open myself up to that again, to put our kids thru this anymore. I'm willing to try right now but after that?? don't know.

 

And, like I've told others, don't feel sorry for me. I've brought a lot of this on myself, too. Only, I've learned from my mistakes and have faced them head-on instead of trying to bury them.

[dgiirl]

My mom and 2 of my sisters told me this weekend that I shouldn't be walking away with nothing from the marriage--I've only asked that the kids names be put on the house. I know I'm getting the sharp end of the stick but don't know if I have the courage to go after more. I could get half of the equity in the house, which is a very nice sum. It would help me out a lot but I'd have to look myself in the mirror and be able to live with doing that to him. It would ruin him financially, something I don't want to do. Don't know which way to go on it so I'm gonna hang for a while and keep considering.

 

I know you said you didnt want to have lawyers involved, however, what's the harm in getting an initial consultation? Noone wants to go through a messy ugly divorce, but that's not necessarily going to be the outcome just because you got a lawyer's second opinion. Remember, they work for YOU and you make all the decisions. But atleast if you know exactly what you ARE entitled too, if (and when) your exh starts with the poor me routine, you can confidently know what you have already negotiated on, and not feel so guilty. Plus, with a lawyer, you gaurantee there are no loop holes. This doesnt just involve you asking for all of his assets, but him asking you for all of your assets. Depending on your situation, if you dont protect yourself, he could easily come back to you in the future and ask for alimony. You might believe that he wouldnt ever do that to you. And he might not do that now. But what about in a year or ten from now? You dont really know who he'll be at that time and what kind of character he'd have.

 

 

As far as getting back together if we do divorce--shame on me for still saying if--I don't honestly know if I could at this point. He has really hurt me, with a lot of different things he's done, and I don't know if I'll be able to go back after a divorce, to open myself up to that again, to put our kids thru this anymore. I'm willing to try right now but after that?? don't know.

 

The beauty of this is you really dont need to make any of these decisions UNTIL you are actually faced with them. Right now, you have to protect yourself emotionally and legally.

 

 

And, like I've told others, don't feel sorry for me. I've brought a lot of this on myself, too. Only, I've learned from my mistakes and have faced them head-on instead of trying to bury them.

 

We all make mistakes. I'm not completely blameless for my things in my marriage either. But what matters most is what we do to CORRECT those mistakes. What we do to learn from them and never repeat them again. This is what determines our character.

[Lor]

I ended up talking to him last night. He was still going back and forth, hadn't made a decision. He "skimmed" thru the divorce settlement while I was gone. Guess that's it then.

 

It hurts but it doesn't hurt that bad right now. I'm handling it, better than I thought I would actually. Don't know if shock is holding the feelings at bay but it feels more like acceptance.

 

I heard the same damn things I've been hearing: "I still care a lot about you" "I don't want to hurt you anymore" "I don't know what to do" "I know I should try at least one more time" "I don't know which is the best way to go" "He knows he's hurt me a lot".......it never changes. I finally turned around and told him that I deserve better than this, that if all he's going to do is sit the fence then I don't want him in my life anymore. That I'm the one who's been doing all the work since this started, that he's the cause of my depression, that he's the one who's brought all this on. I told him I know I've made a lot of mistakes but at least I made the effort to change for him and for me, to work on saving our marriage, that I'm the one who's done all the work thru this and that I did it for us, not to save our marriage for the sake of the kids. That I've had to leave my home, buy a house I didn't want, not see my kids all the time. He said he knows I'm hurting but that he's hurting too and I told him that he doesn't show it very well. I don't know what he expects or what he wants from me--to wait around for another year????

 

Maybe there is someone better for me out there but I don't honestly care--I've only wanted my husband but guess our marriage isn't worth the effort to him, I'm not worth the effort. To him I'm not. To me I am so here goes with the grand finale. Wish I didn't have to but what point is there in waiting anymore?

[DieselPWR]

Guess you just need to seriously ask yourself "Is this relationship EVER going to work?". You know the answer more than anyone yet Im sure you dont think you do. But there comes a time when drastic measures are called for. If it takes filing for divorce and settling everything then do so. But there's also that chance that in doing so he will completly give up on the relationship. If your not happy...do it. You can only try so hard and for so long before you need change in a positive direction and if he isnt in with you so be it-Shane

You know, that is so true, and yet I am in the same boat. I am so wishy-washy sometimes that I don't know if I am coming or going at times. I have said that I am not going to do the filing or even initiate separation paperwork for the same fear: pushing my wife farther away.

I can't say what I would do at the point of a year. I guess I will only know when and if that time comes.

Me

[Lor]

Hi me. When the time comes, it feels so final, so over. So....empty.

[Ladyjane14]

He said he knows I'm hurting but that he's hurting too and I told him that he doesn't show it very well.

 

Poor little lost lamb, isn't he?

People irritate the crap out of me sometimes! I find it amazing that it doesn't bother some people to look in the mirror and see a lying, cheating scumbag looking back. What kind of world do we live in where Honor means less than nothing.... to abandon the family just for the sake of self-gratification?

 

How can there be personal happiness for people who lack integrity?

 

You know, I'm not a marriage-at-all-costs person, but DAMN!.... most of your garden variety marital problems can be worked out. And when it comes to the point where it can't be worked out anymore, the least a WS could do would be to NOT be a chickensh*t about it by jerking his partner around.

 

What a d*ck.

[Ladyjane14]

p.s. You should give some serious consideration to throwing yourself a fancy divorce party. Hell, I'd plan it for months!!!

 

It sucks and it's sad when a marriage ends.... but at the minimum, this guy won't be wasting any more of your time.

[Lor]

I don't think he likes what he sees in the mirror but instead of fixing it, he turns around so he doesn't have to look. Every now and then he'll catch a glimpse of himself and try to figure out how to like who he is again, but then something else will catch his attention and he'll quit looking again.

 

Something that I've realized is that people are truely selfish. I mean everyone! I'm selfish because I want my husband and my family back regardless of what he feels. He's selfish because he can only think about what our relationship was lacking and not the good parts. Our friends are selfish because they want us to be together so we can all be together, so on and so on. It's human nature to be selfish and that was a hard pill to swallow to realize that I can't win at this. He used to have a lot of honor.....

 

I agree with the chickensh*t part. And that's not been the kind of person he was so I don't understand why he can deal with other people and other things but not me. Yeah, he's a jerk sometimes but not always. I'm not really defending him (?) but he does have a lot of good qualities. Otherwise I wouldn't have tried. Now my 1st XH, HE was a jerk. He even stole the $500 that was from my Dad when he passed away in '95. found out 2 yrs ago that each of us kids got a check. Funny, I never saw mine... Now that was the best thing I ever did!

 

Can't say that I'll party. But you can bet I'd get drunk at least.

[DieselPWR]

Hi me. When the time comes, it feels so final, so over. So....empty.

God Bless you, that's so sad, but I don't think there is such thing as a "Good" divorce. I had started to rant and didn't want to high jack your post so I deleted it

But I will say that finality in my life would probably be good for me, Its the pain of not knowing and waiting that really kicks my butt.

Hang in there, and if you need to rant, feel free; I am not offended very easily anymore

Emptiness in my eyes is an oppertunity to fill yourself with new spirit. I am trying to fill myself with other stuff to keep my mind from concentrating on her; sometimes it works sometimes it don't. But as some very wise people have told me, "Let Go and Let God" and my favorite "It works if you work it!" That can be applied in many facets of life.

Me

[Lor]

hijack away!

 

I'm taking things day by day, sometimes minute by minute. I want to call or email; there are so many things I think of that I forgot to say. That's what I used to do. Rant and then send emails the next day. Or, if he wouldn't respond to an email I'd throw a hissy and go off. But not anymore. Now I shrug my shoulders and get back to work. and I only email or call when I have to and I keep it completely impersonal. Its only been a few weeks that I've been able to do this and should have been doing it a long time ago.

 

He's had me in such knots; one day there like he used to be, then the next he's gone again. He gave me such a hound dog look as I was pulling out of his driveway Monday night....made me want to go back but I can't anymore. If he ever wants to work on us, he'll have to come to me, preferably with tail between his legs:cool: . Naw, I don't mean that. If he came back, a simple let's try again would work on me. He has no idea how to go about it thou. You can't go thru this for a year then say Hey! Let's go away for the weekend! I'd rather he came over for dinner, or invited me for dinner with him and the kids one night, then maybe a movie or dinner the next week. Maybe go hiking one afternoon like we've talked about doing but never did. Absolutely positively nothing sexual in nature!! Any time he's paid any attention to me he's been in the mood. I would need to know that he was coming to me with his head and heart, not.......well, you get the picture.

[DieselPWR]

Amen to all of the above.

I honesty feel the same as you do. I want to e-mail all the time to share the joys of my life; my sobriety, my weight loss (I went from 240lb to 205 so far and dropping) and my general situation. But like everyone has told me, have not. I said what I had to say and am leaving it like that save for buisness realted stuff. She knows how I feel and should she change her mind, she knows where I am. Haven't moved, changed my numbers or even the locks. All of that under legal advice, so that she can't say at the end that I abandoned her(like she did me). I am concenrating on me and my sanity. I am pretty self centered at times and this is one.

On the second point, I agree 100%. I have come up with a quasi-plan shoudl she want to come back. Start with dating again, learning about each other, the move to hanging out more often, mixed in with ALOT of marriage counsling. Only after I felt her sincerity and felt I could trust her again, would I even consider letting her back into my home on a regular basis. And Sex? Nope. I do not want to get the emotions involved there at this point and until we were getting better in this thing. Plus I want no risk of pregnancy in a situation at that point should it come. But that is all best case scenario and I am prepared for the worst. :-(

I'll be honest with you, you have been an inspiration to me; although our situations are a little different, I feel the same way as you describe in your posts.

Keep your chin up, and hopefully something I say can help you in the same way that you've helped me thus far.

Me

[Lor]

hopefully something I say can help you in the same way that you've helped me thus far.

Me

 

 

You just did........

[Lor]

I'm trying not to read anything into it but he called me last night on my way home to warn me about a traffic accident that I wouldn't be able to get thru. Usually, he wouldn't have said a word until later "Oh yeah, guess I should have warned you...."

 

And he called me the other night about our oldest son.....

 

I'm still doing NC except when required and keeping it impersonal. That makes it easier on me to deal with since I don't end up getting emotional. Really wish I would have been able to deal with this like this a long time ago. I'd try but then would end up falling off the wagon, so to speak.

 

This still is hard but its getting easier.

[Lor]

Okay, now today he's emailing me. Its stuff about the kids, how he missed our son's dentist appt cuz he had the times mixed up. It feels like he's trying to blame me since he didn't double check the time, although I'd told him he'd better if he wasn't sure of it the other day. Although I don't remember what time it was for either, I knew he'd be taking him (his turn) and that I'd told him what time it was for--I know I did!! So its not my problem, right? I'm doing one of his numbers and am not going to answer his last email--I did answer the first one. I don't like stooping to his level but I know first hand how absolutely positively irritating it is when someone won't reply! I started to and then caught myself. Why should I, other than to keep the dialog up?

 

I'm not angry, emotional, etc, etc. It feels kinda good to start sending a message back, stop and think "you know, its not my problem." and delete what I was gonna send.

 

Now lets see if some sparks start to fly.....probably not but oh well, right? This is really kinda fun to try and get under HIS skin instead of the other way around.

[DieselPWR]

Lor, I feel for ya, and comend you for your strength. Its never easy.

If you read my other post, the final verdict on my situation is in. She wrote me back and told me flat out that she wants nothing to do with me and to give up hope. I had, weeks prior, kidding myself for a while

But back to your post, I feel for ya. Things seem so mixed up, I can see where you would have reason to get a little confused. My biggest mistake was taking every thing and analyzing the heck out of it. That was very counterproductive for me, at least. I now take things at face value, if she doesn't call, its cause she doesn't want to. Not that she is trying to play mind games with me. My advice for you is don't read too deep into trivial things; my W did the same thing to me two days before she took off, called me and told me there was a traffic jam; I thought it was to get me to not come to see her that day. Turns out there was and I got caught in it. Keep your chin up, you seem like you are doing really well, and even though I have only been around a few days, I have learned alot from you and others.

Another tidbit of advice, for your own sanity, don't concentrate on the fun of "getting under his skin". It will end up driving you nuts, trust me. If its one thing that I have learned in the last 2 months, its that sometimes my mind can work against me. Simply my opinion. And you know what they say about opinions......

And about the post, you made me smile, I gotta tell ya. Its kind words from people that don't even know you that can really make your day. I saw that post right after I read the e-mail from my wife and it helped alot.

Thank ya

Me

[Lor]

No, I'm not planning on staging any attacks to get under his skin. Just that it feels kinda good to be able to score a point in my favor for a change.

 

I'm not strong by any means. My change in attitude has really only been within the last few weeks, otherwise I've been a total basket case. I don't know when or how I finally found peace but it seems that I have. My new motto is "Its not my problem". His forgetting the appt? Its not my problem. Him not knowing whether he should have the oldest bring them to the sitter? Not my problem. His not weed eating the yard--I told him I liked the jungle look--Not my problem. I've still been trying to take care of him, thru out all of this and now I'm done.

 

I think I'll be fine now, at least until it hits me when its completely final.

 

Oh, btw, my ferret's names are Ferris (Fer-Fer) and Calvin. I live in the country; my neighbor's thought I had big wierd looking rats for pets. What do you do to keep them out of plants, except get rid of the plants?

[Becoming]

Lor--I don't mean to confuse you, but is it possible that your H really doesn't know what to do? I think you've confused the hell out of him! :laugh:

 

If you haven't read How to Live with a Passive Aggressive Man, buy one and read it. This is what you have. Even if you're divorced, he'll still pull this crap, and that book will show you the game and how to counter it. Basically, people are passive aggressive because they feel powerless and choose to remain that way instead so they'll let everyone else do everything and stand back and criticize afterwards or they'll talk about all their good intentions (what's wrong with you that you don't appreciate all I do, yadayadayada) and then blame you for their inaction.

 

Just saying, "You know what, you're a perfectly capable adult, so I know you'll be able to handle it." is the best way to deal with it. Good for you for recognizing that all his words are just BS to save his own face with egg plastered all over it.

 

And I may have missed it, but did you ever tell him that going away for a weekend won't work this time, that what you want is courted slowly to see if it's possible to save the marriage?

 

And does any of this matter anyway? It sounds like you're experiencing the freedom of having one less child to take care of.

[DieselPWR]

To be honest with you, I don't have plants in my house. I have the black thumb of death when it comes to vegitation:D Plus my guys only have one room that they are allowed access to; the room where their cage is. Plus I have a cage outside that I take them to in the evenings to unwind.

Here's a tip that I used to use when I used to let them have run of my apartment before I moved into my house. Take a lid of a computer box and get some instant rice. Instant, not the cookable stuff. Fill the lid about halfway, and put some of their favorite toys in there under the rice. Let em loose, my guys have a ball. They will dig, and burrow, roll and fight. Just watch for them "relieving themselves" cause some may think its a litter box. I have awesome pictures of that and its funny as heck.

Funny how pets will know when you are down. I have one that will give me kisses when he knows I am sad. Brightens my day in a flash.

Sorry bought the comment on strength. I remember that you said if one more person said it you would..... ooops!

My mom had a talk with my neighbor today when i was at work, and basically it boiled down to this: they all had her number from the beginning. No specifics, but they saw all that I didn't. But live and learn, that's what I say.

Have a great one, hotter than blazes today.

Me

[Lor]

He really doesn't know what to do and you're right--I've probably caused a lot of that with my flip-flopping attitude. Not long ago even I ripped into him about OW, then called him a couple of days later to go to a movie with me and the kids. :eek: Actually, the poor guy. Naw, he deserves some of what he's going thru.

 

yeah, I told him a weekend wouldn't work. What if we went and then he turned cold on me again? I'd have nowhere to go, I couldn't escape it. I've told him it would have to be a lot slower than that.

 

But, no, not that it matters, I don't believe. You hit it on the head; he's passive-aggressive. I'll see if I can find the book. when I first started seeing him, he was so confident with everything. He's almost 5 years younger than me and I don't think he was done maturing (Oh, no comments about men's maturity!! ).

 

I'm moving on, and it looks like without him.

 

As far as one less kid, now it sounds like I'll have one more since my oldest's friend asked to come live with us for the school year. He's a good kid--17--and his mom said yes if I do. He's got issues with his dad.

[Lor]

Me,

 

my boys have the run of the house cuz I work so much and I'm still remodeling it. I do shut some doors thou. Hopefully when I get the basement done I can have them down there instead of running amuk. I have plants everywhere--can't live without them they are so relaxing. I'll have to try that with the rice--sounds like a great time.

 

No problem about the strength thing....

 

Oh yeah, funny how everyone can see what you never did. Don't think so. No one could see it coming or why would they have let you marry her without saying something? I heard the same thing about my EXH, yada yada yada. People change, or they put on a good face that no one sees.

 

Hot here too but finally a little rainy. And I finally get to leave work!!