How to keep it a secret

[owcanbhppy]

good for you nights! i believe ive stated here bfr, i dont understand ow waiting around to be treated like crap by a mm. if one makes a person unhappy, why put up w/ even/espec part-time?!!?

 

oh, sorry dangerous, looks like i did it again. are you ok?

[Dangerously Close]

Hey, I didn't start the thread off track, so it's great to have the original topic talked about.

 

We had another chance opportunity Friday night. It was wonderful and amazing, but to short. Mostly we just talked and connected on that deeper level. There was probably only about 15 minutes of physical contact (no full blown sex). He told me that he has an idea in mind for us to spend some real time together. He's going to let me know as soon as he solidifies his plans. :bunny:

[Dangerously Close]

When we first started the "a" [if u could call it that] he would send me emails just to say good morning or to have a nice weekend. or if i didnt see him at work, he would call me and say " oh i didnt get a chance to see you today and i wanted to talk to you..." or things like that. or he would call and see if i wanted him to come by...and this was before anything really serious happened.

 

then there was a period of NC for like 2 months, even though we saw each other at work. and still, nothing serious at happened at this point.

 

then when it picked up again, it was like the first poster said, that something only happened if the chance was there....no phone calls or planning it out. and no little emails anymore just to see how i was.

 

i got the feeling that he started off the A that way to get my attention and have me liking him, then once he saw he had me, he figured he didnt have to put in that effort anymore. which was a stupid move on his part cause if he was smart, he would have pulled that behavior AFTER we had sex...not get cocky [no pun intended] and overconfident ahead of time cause i still havent slept with him, and on monday im telling him to **** off. hahahaha the dirtbag.

 

We don't even email each other very often. During our 6 months of NC we would send them probably once every 2 weeks. And there you would have to read between the lines to get anything out of it. Again, if they were being read, they wouldn't seem supicious. Now that I physically see him on almost a daily basis, there is almost no email contact. A lingering glance, a smile only for me. These things are the only real contact that I get on a regular basis. Each one makes my heart flutter. sigh.

[owcanbhppy]

so you forgive me?

 

hope you have agreat time & you 2 find the way around the situation that is best for every one.

 

aff doesnt alway = disaster. the support i've given & received is amazing. no matter what happens, i'll never regret mm has been a part of my life.

[NightsDarkRose]

same here..thats the same crap he pulls...he'll pass by me and quickly grab my shoulder and squeeze....or little smiles....all, of course, that make me want to jump him right then and there....but its all hormones. when the cloud of lust passes, and i see things clearly...i see him for the scumbag he really is...hes 37 and im 19.....even if hes gorgeous, doesnt excuse the fact that [as a fellow poster said to me before} hes pulling a joey buttafuco and its really disturbing.

 

when i think about how everything started and all the behavior, i suddenly see it as a predator stalking its prey. he knew just what to do....it started off soo subtle and slow...that i never saw it coming....he was so seducing and sweet and innocent seeming...that i was in over my head before i knew what was up....i was a virgin when i met him! which he knew... and even tho i dated someone after him and lost it to that person, MM was my first real physical awakening....[it was in the 2 month period of no contact that i lost it to someone else...haha bet MM is kicking himself in the ass now....}

 

but really, the whole thing in retrospect is really creepy, cause how he did it....it really was like a slow seduction and the fact that his daughter is 17 gives it a very eerie vibe.

[NightsDarkRose]

sry if i took it off track.....i hope things work out for you tho in no matter what course of action you decide to do. really, as long your happy that what matters. and since i understand the heart flutters....good luck to u cause resisting that is not easy! lol .

[stillhere]

I just spent the early afternoon with my MM, and his W! I feel sorry for her, especially since she has no clue. And guess who got all of his attention today...ME!

 

As much as i would like her to find out about us, i don't want her to find out it is me. She has been nothing but kind to me, and that makes it so much harder, but i'm not willing to give him up.

 

I know i'm being selfish here, but i can't seem to let go of him. What do these men have that takes control of us, and won't let us break free?

[NightsDarkRose]

i really dont know...maybe we're addicted to the drama or the pain that comes along with it? its really hard to say cause every woman is different...i think in my case its the fact that i know its safe...that this thing with him really cant go anywhere and i dont have to risk my heart...theres this wonderful guy whos single that i also work with, and me and him have been becoming really good friends, and we are attracted to each other, and yet im keeping him at arms length even though i know he would be a wonderful boyfriend..and im putting myself with this manwhore who doesnt even measure up to him in decency and intelligence....but with who i have this amazing sexual chemistry with...and i wonder if its because im a glutton for misery? is being faced with the prospect of a fulfilling, loving relationship with a man who not only finds me beautiful but intelligent just too scary for me that i have to push him away and waste my youth and time on someone like MM? ill never understand it...my mother wants me to seek therapy.

 

so yeah....i dont know the answer to that question ....i cant understand it myself.

[Hard2Think]

Not a very popular view - but as a MM, I can tell you that you are 100% on the money.

 

And it's not just me .. many of my friends also are in the same boat. Sexless marriages and bitchy wives. As hard as it can be sometimes in the face of temptation - it's asking too much of a guy to be faithful to his wife when she's acts like a shrew and recoils in horror at the sight of his c*ck.

 

Compare that to a woman who will give him a nice long backrub without him asking just because she knows he likes it. Someone who will cancel a dinner date with you because she'd rather stay home and take a bath together and make love. Someone who calls you in the mifddle of the day because she can't stop thinking about you ..

 

I wasn't able to resist the temptation - and frankly .. I don't really see why I should.

 

I am a little tired of the moral self-righteoness of many of the ladies on board here....ok, yes, your husbands vowed to be faithful to you. And you were a certain weight when they married you too. And you were sweet and hardworking. Today, you might be a blimp who watches TV all day long and has nothing more on her mind than shopping and bills. Maybe his vows were to a different person.

 

Did you just marry to have the kids and the house and dont really care too much for your guy? Perhaps thats why he found someone who did.

 

If a man is cheating regularly, maybe he has a reason sometimes.

 

And maybe some of these other women offer something he doesnt get at home.

 

Quit whining and own up to some failure yourself.

[lindya]

Not a very popular view - but as a MM, I can tell you that you are 100% on the money.

 

And it's not just me .. many of my friends also are in the same boat. Sexless marriages and bitchy wives. As hard as it can be sometimes in the face of temptation - it's asking too much of a guy to be faithful to his wife when she's acts like a shrew and recoils in horror at the sight of his c*ck.

 

Compare that to a woman who will give him a nice long backrub without him asking just because she knows he likes it. Someone who will cancel a dinner date with you because she'd rather stay home and take a bath together and make love. Someone who calls you in the mifddle of the day because she can't stop thinking about you ..

 

I wasn't able to resist the temptation - and frankly .. I don't really see why I should.

 

Why remain married to someone you despise to that extent? You might feel that because so many of your friends feel miserable in their marriages that life is just like that...but for many people it isn't. Some of them make a mistake the first time - then get divorced, learn from the mistakes of their first marriage and go on to make a success of their second.

 

Finances? Children? These are the issues facing every person whose marriage breaks down irretrievably. Nonetheless, people manage. They make the necessary sacrifices to escape from situations that are unhealthy for everyone they impact upon.

 

Is the answer really just to continue indefinitely in the situation you've described? Constantly living lies and using extra-marital sex as a means of temporary escape and happiness? Much as you might loathe your wife by this stage, and soothing as it might feel to objectify her into a monster, she is still a human being. Someone who, even if you're not able to see it, deserves the chance to find some kind of happiness in the future. Just as you do. It really doesn't sound as though either of you will ever find any real happiness and contentment by staying together into your dotage.

[GreenEyedLady]

Just deciding to get a divorce is not so easy. It seems like an easy way out, it's a hard decision to make. There's many ramifications and while I am not in support of staying in a miserable situation, I know how hard it is to leave, and it doesn't happen overnight.

 

My EXH turned out to be gay (he's not out of the closet yet, but his "best friend" is now living with him-5 years and going strong). I was a housewife and graduate student and I had to make my plan before I could get out. It took me 2 years of miserable conditions, but I finally did it. But I really thought about how it would affect my children, my family, my life. I asked myself was I just being selfish? Would I ruin my children's lives? My life? But in the end I knew I could not live a lie, which being with my Exh was. I used to go to bed and cry myself to sleep every night, wishing I would just die. And now I live each day as if it's my last, on my terms. And for the most part, I'm content.

 

So while Divorce is accessible, only the truly foolish people run into it without thinking. Sometimes it takes time.

[Mascara]

Yessss..... but the question is, how much time? I would say that every OW who knows that she wants him to leave needs to set a timescale based on their situation - and if he has done nothing by then, walk out the door.

 

I'd also say that any timescale longer than a year is taking the p*ss.

[lindya]

Just deciding to get a divorce is not so easy. It seems like an easy way out, it's a hard decision to make. There's many ramifications and while I am not in support of staying in a miserable situation, I know how hard it is to leave, and it doesn't happen overnight.

 

I know, but at some point the person presumably has to give themselves a kick and say "I've been in this situation for ages now, it isn't getting any better - and I need to take some kind of action to improve things."

 

Look at this:

 

I wasn't able to resist the temptation - and frankly .. I don't really see why I should.

 

That's someone who's operating from a thoroughly child-like "It's not my fault. He/she made me do it" stance. Someone who's floating around in a stinking pond that he can't be bothered trying to clean ("it's my wife's mess, not mine) and doesn't have enough gumption to leave. He's probably going to spend the rest of his life complaining about drowning in that pond, when he isn't floating on rescue lilies with extra-marital partners.

 

What do you say to someone like that? Simply acknowledge that changes are terribly difficult to make, pop the pacifier back into their mouth and gently push them off in their lily-boat? Maybe.

[stoopid_guy]

Yessss..... but the question is, how much time? I would say that every OW who knows that she wants him to leave needs to set a timescale based on their situation - and if he has done nothing by then, walk out the door.

 

I'd also say that any timescale longer than a year is taking the p*ss.

I don'r remember where, but I read somewhere that if he didn't leave within the first six months, the odds are he isn't going to.

[GreenEyedLady]

I think that the point of my post was misunderstood. Lindya: Sometimes in order to take the action, there are other actions that need to be taken first, and that takes time. Like finishing school or getting a job to support your family.

 

And my post was meant about divorce in general. It's easy for people to say get a divorce, but actually going through one is time and emotion consuming. Plus, you have to resolve your feelings about the failure of the relationship and your part in it.

 

As for a time-frame, the people in the relationship need to be honest with themselves about what is realistic. And if one thinks the other is dragging their feet, they probably are.

[lindya]

I think that the point of my post was misunderstood. Lindya: Sometimes in order to take the action, there are other actions that need to be taken first, and that takes time. Like finishing school or getting a job to support your family.

 

And my post was meant about divorce in general. It's easy for people to say get a divorce, but actually going through one is time and emotion consuming. Plus, you have to resolve your feelings about the failure of the relationship and your part in it.

 

I know. I've seen the process and the effects. My purpose, though, was to address a specific post rather than to promote divorce as a general solution for people who are having marital difficulties....or to suggest that it's in any way a breeze to get through. Sometimes though it's only by presenting a person with extreme, stark choices, that they will make the decision to move into a more balanced perspective.

 

I'm not without empathy, but there's such a thing as being too understanding and sympathetic to people who are already in "it's everyone else's fault" mode. Too easy to get into the game of accepting all their excuses and presenting them with new ones.

[Hard2Think]

I know, but at some point the person presumably has to give themselves a kick and say "I've been in this situation for ages now, it isn't getting any better - and I need to take some kind of action to improve things."

 

Look at this:

 

 

 

That's someone who's operating from a thoroughly child-like "It's not my fault. He/she made me do it" stance. Someone who's floating around in a stinking pond that he can't be bothered trying to clean ("it's my wife's mess, not mine) and doesn't have enough gumption to leave. He's probably going to spend the rest of his life complaining about drowning in that pond, when he isn't floating on rescue lilies with extra-marital partners.

 

What do you say to someone like that? Simply acknowledge that changes are terribly difficult to make, pop the pacifier back into their mouth and gently push them off in their lily-boat? Maybe.

 

I don't like what you said - but unfortunately it does ring true. It's given me something to think about. I never looked at things from that perspective. I have let this go for 8 years like this and have been mired in ambivalence. I thought I needed to stay for the kids. But as time goes on - I'm beginning to doubt the wisdom of that decision.

 

I only disagree maybe about the blaming part. You do make it sound quite bad. I've allowed myself to do that only because of all the effort I put into making things good - all to no avail. I guess a point has to be reached where you say the other partner is not a partner anymore and has in her own way chosen to be out of the relationship. It takes two to dance and if one refuses there is no dance. I blame her for leaving the dance floor without telling me.

[lindya]

I don't like what you said

 

Neither do I

 

- but unfortunately it does ring true. It's given me something to think about. I never looked at things from that perspective. I have let this go for 8 years like this and have been mired in ambivalence. I thought I needed to stay for the kids. But as time goes on - I'm beginning to doubt the wisdom of that decision.

 

It takes gumption to say that.

 

I only disagree maybe about the blaming part. You do make it sound quite bad. I've allowed myself to do that only because of all the effort I put into making things good - all to no avail. I guess a point has to be reached where you say the other partner is not a partner anymore and has in her own way chosen to be out of the relationship. It takes two to dance and if one refuses there is no dance. I blame her for leaving the dance floor without telling me.

 

I can sympathise with what you're saying. More than you know, actually.

 

Sometimes it's not enough to put effort into making things good. You have to put effort into communicating to the other person that they also need to make things good....and that can be the most difficult part. Especially if communication between you isn't all that great.

 

That's why I'd suggest counselling - if your wife is agreeable to it. Not necessarily with a view to making the marriage work, but simply in order to work out what the best way forward for you both would be. Never underestimate the potential for a third party to present perspectives and possible solutions that you hadn't considered before. It's very, very hard to take an objective look at one's own behaviour...and to identify and question one's more destructive core beliefs. Those are the ones that often hold us back from what we say we want.

 

It doesn't need to be overly touchy-feely. Just look on counselling as being a work-out of that part of your brain which manages your emotions and helps you to develop insight into your own (and other people's) behaviour.

 

Best of luck.

[Guest]

I don't condone infidelity by any means, but do agree with your on the point regarding married ladies neglecting their husbands. I work at a store, and see lots of M couples come through my desk where the husbands would be just so embarrassed of the way their wives look or act. And they are still YOUNG couples! Majority of those ladies are overweight and dressed with very little taste. A mother's job is never done, it's true. But what about your husband? Is a wife's job EVER done for that matter? I might sound a little strong here but you married your guy first, and then, only then, you had your kids. So your hubby SHOULD always come FIRST. And that's NOT a choice for you to make... If you want your husband to be consistently faithful to you, you've got to make sure he's satisfied in bed and desired by a beautiful woman he married in the first place, And that would mean: regular work-outs at a gym, dressing attractively even at home, week'ly dates alone, at least one passionate kiss between the two of you a day, etc. Realize he needs a companion and a lover for himself in his house first. And if he doesn't get it in you, he's bound to look for that somewhere else, no matter how devoted of a mother and good a housewife you've been. Call it selfish on his part, but that's simply how men are "wired" as men, and nothing can be done to change that.

[consternation]

If that's how men are, maybe we should all give them the flick then and we won't need this forum anymore! Sounds like a pain in the arse to me.

 

Lol.

 

On the other hand.... all those things (gym, dress, passionate kiss) can go a long way towards making a woman feel great about themselves. I don't think they guarantee a man won't stray (despite what guest says) but they may help us feel able to handle what life throws at us.

 

Look at Jennifer Aniston (and numerous other examples). Hardly let herself go, I'd say. But look what happened to her marriage....

 

Last time I tarted myself up for ex-mm he said, 'what's that on your eyelashes, mud?''

[whichwayisup]

I don't condone infidelity by any means, but do agree with your on the point regarding married ladies neglecting their husbands. I work at a store, and see lots of M couples come through my desk where the husbands would be just so embarrassed of the way their wives look or act. And they are still YOUNG couples! Majority of those ladies are overweight and dressed with very little taste. A mother's job is never done, it's true. But what about your husband? Is a wife's job EVER done for that matter? I might sound a little strong here but you married your guy first, and then, only then, you had your kids. So your hubby SHOULD always come FIRST. And that's NOT a choice for you to make... If you want your husband to be consistently faithful to you, you've got to make sure he's satisfied in bed and desired by a beautiful woman he married in the first place, And that would mean: regular work-outs at a gym, dressing attractively even at home, week'ly dates alone, at least one passionate kiss between the two of you a day, etc. Realize he needs a companion and a lover for himself in his house first. And if he doesn't get it in you, he's bound to look for that somewhere else, no matter how devoted of a mother and good a housewife you've been. Call it selfish on his part, but that's simply how men are "wired" as men, and nothing can be done to change that.

 

Yes, but it's not one sided. BOTH people in the marriage have to put in 100%. Chances are, the wife is that because her hubby neglected some of her needs as well.

 

Sure, he gets s satisified in bed, but he also must give too. Just because men are "wired" that way, doesn't give them the right to go cheat if things aren't 100% in the bedroom. Part of getting married, saying vows to the one you want to spend the rest of your life with (or ANY long term relationship) is to give up certain things. One of those things is having sex with someone else.

[stillhere]

 

Sure, he gets s satisified in bed, but he also must give too. Just because men are "wired" that way, doesn't give them the right to go cheat if things aren't 100% in the bedroom. Part of getting married, saying vows to the one you want to spend the rest of your life with (or ANY long term relationship) is to give up certain things. One of those things is having sex with someone else.

 

 

My MM cheated because he wasn't getting it in the bedroom. Plain and simple. She gave him everything else. But they are just like roommates, living under the same roof, no affection at all. He doesn't seem like the type that needs affection. She's been with him for 14 years, and although he doesn't seem like the type, he is the type that needs affection! I've learned that in less than a year, so she should know that he needs this affection, because she's been with him a lot longer than me.

 

I guess i do have an advantage into that insight, because i'm the one who knows just how desperately he did need that, because i'm the one he strayed with. But there have been many changes in that household since i came into the picture. Either she is relieved that he no longer pursues her in the bedroom anymore, or she just doesn't care.

 

Men do need to feel loved, even if they aren't the "type". They need that closeness with a woman. They need that physical and emotional connection during love making. Yeah, we started out as f*ck buddies, but now we are in love, and he's now truely getting what he always craved from his W, but that she quit providing.

 

I'm not saying it's right, but i'm saying that he was desperate enough, after so many years of trying, that he gave up and finally found what he really needed.

[Hard2Think]

Yes, but it's not one sided. BOTH people in the marriage have to put in 100%. Chances are, the wife is that because her hubby neglected some of her needs as well.

 

Sure, he gets s satisified in bed, but he also must give too. Just because men are "wired" that way, doesn't give them the right to go cheat if things aren't 100% in the bedroom. Part of getting married, saying vows to the one you want to spend the rest of your life with (or ANY long term relationship) is to give up certain things. One of those things is having sex with someone else.

 

Yeah - well there is one thing I believe. Men are very easy to keep happy in a marriage. I was able to verbalize exactly what I wanted. Love and affection. Not just sex - but sex where she actually wants me. I can guarantee you 110% that I would not have looked at another woman had it not been for the years of neglect from the wife.

 

Am I perfect? Well, no .. but I do my part. I make a great living and so she doesn't have to. I'm loving and affectionate as I was when we first got married. I don't yell at or beat her. I'm exercise regularly and thus I'm in good physical shape ..

 

But she has harangued me at times because a surgeon husband of one of her PTA friends took her to Hawaii for a surprise birthday party. She spend almost an entire evening berating me for not doing the same. The week after it'll be some other issue and so on. I've tried for years to find out what she wants so as to make her happy in this marriage. The only answers I get are in a alist of things and trips to buy. I've done that and it didn't help any ..

 

Compare that to the OW who at leat for the moment only seems to want me for me. She gives me love and affection for which I was starved.

 

The point I'm making is that one should not be too quick to assume that women are denying the husband sex and affection because he has failed in some way. Maybe in some cases that's true - they're slobs, the're drunks, they're abusive .. but aside from that - I'm of the firm opinion that most guys are just working their tails off to keep the family running and the wives get bored with them and their needs.

[Guest]

I can't believe how callous some of you are about cheating with someone elses partner.

Clearly some of you are either lacking any semblance of a soul, are unable to feel a trace of empathy, or are the most selfish characters imaginable. How can you look at yourself in the mirror, knowing that if an innocent person was to find out about what you are doing their ENTIRE WORLD would come crumbling down, and they would go from the high of being able to surrender themselves to another person to the low of wanting to kill themselves to make the pain stop. Or do you find it sexually arousing, on some subconcious, Freudian level, that you have that power.

 

It really is a situation where you don't know about how much it physically hurts until it happens to you, and after going through that, if you can do that to someone else you probably need prozac, a psychologist, and a little self esteem.

 

And the bull**** where you think "oh, well their marriage is cold/dead/unfulfilling for him/her" or "our situation is different" is, in reality, just a flimsy & self-justifying excuse for and act that makes you nothing more than a weak, self indulgent, morally vacant invertebrate who can't see that your cheating "partner" is as similarly selfish, decieptful and self gratifying as you are.

 

And you know it, deep down.

 

You don't deserve to be taken down to that level, and neither does the innocent other person who waits at home, heartbroken, for their partner who suppsed to hold their hand and be there for them on a short, albeit sometimes tough, journey of 83 years on average.

 

Grow a spine and some self respect, and invest feelings in the plethora of single guys/girls available instead of someone elses man or woman.

 

>

[Adunaphel]

I can't believe how callous some of you are about cheating with someone elses partner.

Clearly some of you are either lacking any semblance of a soul, are unable to feel a trace of empathy, or are the most selfish characters imaginable. How can you look at yourself in the mirror, knowing that if an innocent person was to find out about what you are doing their ENTIRE WORLD would come crumbling down, and they would go from the high of being able to surrender themselves to another person to the low of wanting to kill themselves to make the pain stop. Or do you find it sexually arousing, on some subconcious, Freudian level, that you have that power.

 

It really is a situation where you don't know about how much it physically hurts until it happens to you, and after going through that, if you can do that to someone else you probably need prozac, a psychologist, and a little self esteem.

 

And the bull**** where you think "oh, well their marriage is cold/dead/unfulfilling for him/her" or "our situation is different" is, in reality, just a flimsy & self-justifying excuse for and act that makes you nothing more than a who can't see that your cheating "partner" is as similarly selfish, decieptful and self gratifying as you are.

 

And you know it, deep down.

 

You don't deserve to be taken down to that level, and neither does the innocent other person who waits at home, heartbroken, for their partner who suppsed to hold their hand and be there for them on a short, albeit sometimes tough, journey of 83 years on average.

 

Grow a spine and some self respect, and invest feelings in the plethora of single guys/girls available instead of someone elses man or woman.

 

>

 

I am sorry that you are hurting about having been cheated on.

(I guess this is where all your anger comes from).

 

Most OW did not choose to get involved with their MM *because* he was married, and they would rather be involved with a single person.

 

It seems to me that you are shifting on OW quite a lot of the anger and the resentment that you have for MM. Which is very normal, probably because it's easier, in a way, and allows you to procrastinate facing the real problem, the fact that it is MM the one who is, well, married.

 

Do not get me wrong.

OW are not putting themselves in the wife's shoes - or even if they do, they get in affairs anyway with men who are married to someone else. Which is bad. But it's not like MM cheat because OW...well, throw sex in their face, so to speak. Many OW are actually pursued by MM.

 

You are probably true about the fact that OW should grow more backbone. Most of them would, if they could. or are trying to.

But about them being weak, self indulgent, morally vacant invertebrate, sorry, it's a little too much. And I wonder what you'd call MM.

 

I think you should really face the fact that affairs do not happen just because of OW. A cheater is a cheater. Even if we lived in an hypotethical world were no woman would never ever sleep with a married guy, you'd still have guys who haven't cheated just because they found nobody to cheat on their spouses with.

 

on a side note, it would be great if you registered instead of posting as a guest.