Enough sex, but she has no interest in it....

[marriedwithtwo]

Here is our history: My wife and I have been married 9 years, together 12 years. We have 2 kids, ages 1 and 3. No medical conditions. I'm 34, she's 32. I'm fixed, neither one of us taking any medication. I'm very fit but don't exercise, she is a tiny bit overweight (not that I care) and exercises almost daily. Most nights, she expresses she is tired and beat down from the day (kids).

 

In the beginning it was sex, sex, sex. Oils, funky positions, huge desire, oral sex, and so on. As time has moved on, our difference in desire became an issue (mostly for me) but we rarely discussed it, and when we did it was not productive. After much “resentment flu” on my part for not getting enough sex, we both read a few popular relationship books. They helped us discuss thing out loud and productive (but very hurtful and painful at times), and she finally understood that physical touch and sex was very important to me. In the last month now, we have been having more sex (about every 3rd day)

 

We now have enough sex, but the problem is that she still seems that she should care less. I love getting my rocks off, sure, but it's more than that. I just can't understand why she does not have the desire for me. She never wants me, or needs me, or just “has to have me”. I love her and want her so much, it’s tough when you don’t feel that back by the one you love the most. When we do make love, she does not complain, and often has an orgasm (about ½ time). I’ve even asked about her fantasies, but she says she has none. It’s almost like I need to give up for her to desire me (I tried this for 2 weeks and she didn’t even notice).

 

I’ve tried recently talking to her about her not “needing” me, but she is upset and feels like I am unreasonable for her to give yet even more. She says she’s trying, but having a hard time getting in the mindset of sex, let alone creative and desire. I would love to talk with her more openly about what I want to try and do, but when I lightly approach her, she expresses “here we go again, more conversation about sex…”. I am lost and do not know how I can help her find her sexuality again. I would like to hear particularly from females who have dealt with feelings like this but any comments are welcome. I love her for fulfilling my needs recently, but I don’t feel the “connection” anymore. I would do just about ANYTHING she would ask, why is this not equal for me too? Sex is just kind of functional now. I do not expect to reclaim the past, I just want her to feel the way I do, and be interested and willing to try things. I know she has to rectify this in her own head, but I want to help her open up and let go. She’s just stifled and can’t enjoy anymore.

 

What I do not want is to stay married for another 20 years, wishing and hoping she will wake up to sexuality one day, and it never happens. Other than this one issue, our relationship is solid and loving. She does not understand why this one minor discrepancy is such a problem in the big scheme of our relationship. This is the only area when our discussion is not free and open. I want to add that I would not leave the marriage over this issue, we have too strong of a relationship for that. But it would be frustrating to have to "live with" this issue forever.

Examples:

- No lingerie (since our youngest was born). Says her body is not shaped for it now, and there is no point to wear for 5 minutes

- No oils (bad for skin, makes her break out)

- No showers together (no fun, and shower is too small)

- No “fun”. If we talk, or start laughing or something like that it’s all over, the mood for her is gone

- Only missionary or her on top, rarely me behind (which I love) and nothing else

- Never change positions in the middle

- Sometimes a few seconds or oral for me, but more than 30 seconds she says she can’t do it. I proposed flavor gels, but that’s just “wrong”.

- I like giving oral, she doesn’t need it or want it

- After 9pm, in our bedroom, on the bed, with the lights off (that last one gets me, I like to see).

- no shaving (she did trim a while back, but not anymore, shave for wearing a bathing suit, but not for me)

 

Needless to say, Anal or role playing are a pipe dream right now.

[kulyok]

In the beginning it was sex, sex, sex. Oils, funky positions, huge desire, oral sex, and so on.

 

Most nights, she expresses she is tired and beat down from the day (kids).

 

That's your answer. You guys can have great sex, you used to have it, and you will have it - as soon as you deal with a few issues.

 

Listen to her when she says she is tired. She probably is. Earlier in the evening might be a better time to approach her than late at night.

 

Help her with the kids. Once she's had a few hours on her own, and it lasted for a couple of weeks, she'll talk about sex easier.

 

Vary sex with things _she likes_, like taking her to a good restaurant during the day and having sex right before, or right after. Just a movie could work, if it's just the two of you. Hire a babysitter for the kids and spend a few hours with her in the fresh air. Make a romantic night for her, but _not_ in the house. It works wonders.

 

She might feel suspicious if you start doing that too often. The best thing is, you don't need to. Once a week is enough. But it'll make a change, believe me. Not right now, but it will show.

 

And the most important thing: while you are walking, or talking, just the two of you - ask her, very tenderly, what else she wants from your relationship. What her needs are. Maybe she wants compliments. Maybe flowers. Maybe (and most probably) she wants you to help her with the kids. Imagine that: every time you help her with the kids, or give her little presents, she feels the same way you feel, when you have great sex!

 

Your post shows that you are a great guy and deserve good, loving sex, and that you can make your wife happy. But to do that, you should start to learn her real needs, and fulfill them. She will respond in return.

 

Good luck.

[whichwayisup]

We have 2 kids, ages 1 and 3.

 

There's your main answer. She is a mom and probably feels like one 24/7. You say she's abit over weight, (glad to hear that it doesn't bother you...Just make sure SHE knows you feel this way) and it seems she is aware of the changes in her body. Having two kids, being tired and worn out, I'm sure sex is the last thing on her mind.

 

This has nothing to do with her love for you! She does love you!! At this time, don't equate her love for you through sex...

 

She is alone with the kids, you work. Adult conversation daily is probably not like it used to be for her. And the hormones too...Throw that in the mix, she may be feeling out of touch with everything.

 

I agree with the previous poster...Be romantic! Start pampering her! Massages, cuddles, leave her little I love you notes around the house, so she can find them during the day...BE active in making her feel special and I'm sure she will feel happier and sexier...It's all good and her reaction will more than likely make you feel happier.

 

I can sympathize and understand your frustration when it comes to your sex life not being as fulfilling and exciting as it once was...BUT, it's abit hard to be a mom during the day, then as soon as the kids go to sleep (That is if the one year old sleeps ALL night) to then become sexy and hot, swinging from the chandelier at night! Her mind and body isn't sexual right now because of your young children.

[portableversion]

to every three days??

 

Doesn't sound like much a compromise to me.

 

Face it, her sex drive is lower than yours. Most women have a lower sex drive than men.

 

SHe's probably sick of having sex with YOU at YOUR PACE.

 

MAybe if it was like once a week, she'd be more receptive and 'desirous'.

 

Instead of YOU trying to drag her to YOUR LEVEL, try coming down to hers.

 

She probably feels henpecked and frankly, disgusted by sex since you are obsessed with it and keep hammering her about it.

 

The 'connection' is gone b/c she is giving you 'duty sex'. Blechh. She probably fakes orgasms to get it over with.

[marriedwithtwo]

whichwayisup: I appreciate the thoughtful response. A few things I have add:

 

Every night when I get home, I take the kids while she makes dinner (she wants it that way). I make a serious effort to do the dishes, and share in helping with the kids all days of the week. I am usually home by 4:30 every day and the kids go to bed by 8pm.

 

We do date night (babysitter) every Monday and go to dinner or a movie. Every Wed I take the kids and she goes to bible study.

 

We both read 5 love languages, and she appreciates "acts of service", but she said honestly she is pretty satisfied the way things are and didn't feel any of her needs were not being met.

 

To have sex earlier would be great, but she doesn't want to do that. I ask her gently what she wants or needs, what can I do for her, and she says she is fine and doesn't want more sexually (or foreplay) than I offer. So no matter what, she does not express any needs or things which she wants differently. I wonder if there is something it's just she doesn't want to talk about it, or is uncomfortable talking about sex (I know that's true). I'm just trying to get to the bottom of whatever it is (although she insists there is nothing to get to the bottom of).

 

portableversion: We actually used to be at once a week, and her needs were the same. I am the limiting factor. If I didn't want it, we would go a month. I agree I hate "pity" sex, but that's better than no sex really. In the book, Mars and Venus in the bedroom, it explained it as "quickie sex" quite nicely. But she hasn't read that book yet to my dismay. I'm quite sure she doesn't need to fake it as it's for her when she has one, not for me (although I do enjoy her having one). I appreciate the thoughts!

[portableversion]

when she says she's tired, and not in the mood....she means it.

 

WHy is that so hard for you to believe that?

 

Don't take it so personally. IF you have sex less often, you'll find, that when you do, she's actually be into it.

 

So what do you want? Quality over quantity? Cause you can't have both.

 

Remember, sex isn't the sine qua non of our existence. You need to grow up to understand the world doesn't revolve around your cock.

[portableversion]

books, all of them, are sexist trash.

[portableversion]

with your wife when you KNOW she doesn't want to be doing it, or getting it on with a warmed over cantaloupe?

 

Cause i don't see one.

[marriedwithtwo]

I tried to edit, but couldn't for some reason.

 

I appreciate all the thoughtful responses from all who replied, not just the ones I mentioned.

[PandorasBox]

IMO, maybe you all need some counseling on the matter. She probably just sees herself as a mother right now. It happens sometimes after a woman has had kids. No one said it would always be like that. I do think you need to express to her maybe going to counseling because you seem to be pretty disatisfied with the level of sex you get right now and that might send you looking elsewhere. Try to understand her needs or where shes coming from a little better.

[marriedwithtwo]

portableversion: I think you are reinforcing my point. You are almost replying as if you were my wife.

 

 

Books are not just to support a mans point of view. The 5 love languages and Mars Venus I feel are meant to give assistance on a couple (both of them) in improving their relationship. They are not horny men writing these books, they have the best interest of both parties involved in mind. That is my opinion.

 

You mentioned that sex is not the end all be all in a relationship (paraphrased). You are right, BUT at some point, my desire is so strong, that I get angry, and resentful,and the whole relationship suffers deeply. Things are much better now than before, but still could be better. I don't think you quite understand how the physical drive affects a man. Lack of sex affects my focus, concentration, and how I feel about my wife (less = I feel less loved = relationship drift).

 

I'm not asking her to be a nympho, all I want is for her to consider what is important to me, and be willing to do some of the things. What is so hard about changing your underwear before bed? I am so willing to give just about anything, why cannot she consider some of my requests (especially the easy ones)?

 

I do not feel cheated, I feel blessed with my wife and appreciate what she does share with me. I feel with very little effort on her part could make things exceptional.

[marriedwithtwo]

I am going to take the "romantic" suggestions here on the board and get started right away. I got a great (non sexual) response from the I love you hand-cut heart post-it notes froma while back. I will make a serious effort on this front and report back. Other than flowers, can you make some simple suggestions? Not dishes or movies, but small romantic things I could do. random, unrequested massages of various parts (without expectations) is one. Let's hear some more.

 

 

 

I will also make more of an effort to understand the mother thing. I see sex as a relaxing enjoyable excape, and as a mother she does not, I see your point. It's tough though when this is the very thing that can provide that excape.

 

Still appreciating all the responses, I see I came to the right place for a discussion.

[PandorasBox]

I am going to take the "romantic" suggestions here on the board and get started right away. I got a great (non sexual) response from the I love you hand-cut heart post-it notes froma while back. I will make a serious effort on this front and report back. Other than flowers, can you make some simple suggestions? Not dishes or movies, but small romantic things I could do. random, unrequested massages of various parts (without expectations) is one. Let's hear some more.

 

 

 

I will also make more of an effort to understand the mother thing. I see sex as a relaxing enjoyable excape, and as a mother she does not, I see your point. It's tough though when this is the very thing that can provide that excape.

 

Still appreciating all the responses, I see I came to the right place for a discussion.

 

 

I wish you luck and hope all works out for you. You seem to be a caring husband. After you have tried all these things and IF she still just doesn't seem to be into things, maybe you could try counseling, its not gonna hurt anything at all. Do you think shes possibly depressed?

[marriedwithtwo]

I think she may still have some minor depression yes. There have been varying levels of happiness (in life) over the last 9 years. She's never been a bubbly happy person (like me), but never totally down in the dumps.

 

She did go talk a counseler a while back when things were toughest (lack of sleep etc). The kids sleeping through the night, and a diet and exercise plan (she is not more than 10lbs over HER ideal weight, not that I care - and she knows it) have helped her come out of her funk.

 

If I were to suggest getting hormone level checks or something would be seen as critical so I don't.

[Outcast]

why cannot she consider some of my requests

 

When you're worn out after a long day, even things you enjoy seem too much to do. You can't imagine being too beat for sex because men have a lot of testosterone flowing and telling their bodies to get going and have some sex. You probably could manage it even if you were so tired you could drop. So you think women could but just won't. Not the case.

 

It's not as though she's passing up chances at sex so she can go out jogging, now is it?

[Guest]

I think she may be depressed. Some woman go through depression after giving birth. I am 30 years old woman and my sex drive has increased . I cared less about sex when I was 24-27. 30-35years is the peak age for woman I believe.

 

Please do not take this personally, but she find you attractive, that could be one of the other reasons too?

 

My suggestion would be to seek counselling. Good luck.

[kulyok]

It also very much depends on what she wants. One thing she does want for sure: to feel wanted, loved and appreciated. A random call from work "I just felt like saying "How are you?"" (or "I just call to say I love you", but that can be a little cheesy), bringing home some food she likes(fruit, for example), or a book she had always wanted, or just holding her when you come back from work, and saying: "I am very happy I am again at home with you." Simple compliments have an awesome power to make people happy. I think. :-)

[norajane]

Have you tried showing affection at all times, not just in relation to sex? Random kisses, holding hands, hugs, quick caresses, touching her while you're in the car together? When you're out together with friends, or with family, do you speak highly of her, with admiration? Do you invite her to work functions and introduce her to people as 'your lovely/beautiful/wonderful wife'?

 

Have you tried taking a long weekend away together without the kids? Or a week's vacation somewhere she's always wanted to go? Have you considered sending her to a day spa, or spa weekend, so she can get pampered a little with massages and a facial or whatnot?

 

What are the things that you used to do together while you were dating or before the kids arrived? Did you go for drives in the country, or baseball games, or concerts in the park - maybe you could make time to do some of those things on the weekends with or without the kids?

 

And, can you afford to re-do your bathroom to make that shower bigger??!

[whichwayisup]

Well, keep with it. You're definately doing all the right things.

 

Be as honest as you can with her. Let her know how much you love her, but your need for sex and experiencing that closeness is important to you. MAKE SURE she understands that it's not just about getting your rocks off, it's more a way of connecting with her, and feeling intimate.

 

Take bubble baths together. When you two go out on your date night, mix it up! Go do fun things too, shoot pool, play darts...Even dress up for it and pretend to pick her up at the bar! Make her feel sexy and desired...

 

You're a good father and a good husband, so it's not like you've done something wrong...You mentioned she has had mild depression, maybe Post pardom Depression after the youngest one? Encourage her to go talk to someone if she is feeling alone...Or even get a cleaning lady to come once every few weeks just to help out with the stuff at home. Making her life easier at home..

 

I'll think more and get back to you on more suggestions later.

[JamesM]

I understand..totally. If you want to take the time to read my first couple of posts, you will see that you actually do not live in a hopeless situation. However, mine had medical, emotional abuse, and sexual abuse. We rarely had sex...less than once a month....and IT was pity sex. This was for about four or five years.

 

First, you say there is no medical reason, but she has had depression. In my case, the thyroid was the problem. This caused her to have depression, pain, and mood changes. When this was properly diagnosed, she did a 180 degree turn. (Now we have sex....but it is good sex...aboout one to two times a week....Yes, this is okay for me). It not only changed her libido, it changed her whole outlook on life. My suggestion is not to rule out a medical condition. Believe it or not, I did until a person an a Board suggested a different thyroid medicine.

 

Second, you have two children two years apart. So, for the past almost four years she has been pregnant or taking care of time intensive children. We have four children either two or less years apart. (The change in your lifestyle is big....I know, this was the hardest for me to get used to). This has a huge impact on the woman EVEN if you take the children away periodically. She still feels the burden of being their mother. She still feels as if she is the one responsible for them. No matter how much you help this won't change. However, all of the help you can give does make a difference on her level of tiredness and stress. She also needs to feel that you are giving her emotional and "listening" support. "Yes, your day was hard at the office, but let me tell you about these kids...."

 

Third, I believe your expectations are too high. You two are no longer childless. This makes a big difference. The "maturity" level of a mother defintely is different than that of a wife with no children. Partying seems irresponsible. "Fun" sex may be okay but not spontaneous sex just anywhere because the possibility of a child coming in breaks not only the concentration but also adds stress. Having hot sex three times a week WILL NOT happen like before. Putting on lingerie (I have heard those exact words) for simply sex seems friviolous at this stage. Besides, a child may walk in and spoil the mood. This may change in the future.

 

Fourth, you are putting too much pressure on her to have sex. She will always feel like sex is a duty unless you change that. Even if it is not spoken, the look, the touch, or lack thereof gives her the idea that you WANT it again, because YOU need it. I am guessing that she feels not only anger about sex but guilt that she isn't giving it to you. She cannot just turn on the feelings for sex. She doesn't have the need for release like you do. I am guessing (based on my own feelings) that after your dates and after you take the children, you expect that she will be so grateful and loving that she will tear your clothes off. Unfortunately, she knows you feel that way, and this makes her feel like a ...well, professional escort, not a loving wife. This one is the trickiest area to change.

 

I am certain there are other areas that may be part of the problem, but I didn't see them in your post. I do have some suggestions based on my research and experience. There is a good book to read (yeah, I know you heard THAT before!) called The Sex-Starved Marriage by Michelle Weiner Davis. It helped me alot. And my wife looked thru it a bit. This will give you a better perspective on why you feel like you do, and why she is what she is. It also gives suggestions on how to fix it.

 

My other suggestion is to lay off the sex. WHAT?!? Yes, your whole goal should be to make her realize that she is THE most important person in the world to you...and this has absolutely nothing to do with sex. She has birthed two wonderful children. She is your best friend. She is beautiful to you. Etc., etc. Do not...I repeat, DO NOT....dwell upon your lack of sex. From personal experience you will begin to become angry with her over everything. You will begin to look at other women and wonder it they would be like her....or worse, you wil fantasize about what it would be like with them. This lack of libido is probably not related to how she feels about you. (My wife also quit hugging and kissing....kissing made her nauseous.....imagine how that made ME feel!).

 

I encourage you ro make this your mission. Solve the problem by making her happy. When I made it my goal last November to find out what took her libido away, I not only learned alot anout her and myself and our marriage, but I was given a solution that made her more healthy than she has been in years. She knows who found this solution...she is very grateful. It took only about eight months once I set my mind to it...which seemed longer...but it was more than worth it.

 

I challenge you to think of her and not your lack of sex. Think of everything from how SHE would feel. And above all, listen....and listen some more... to everything she is saying. You may be surprised that she has already told you what is wrong without you hearing it.

 

Good luck! You will need it, but I believe from my experience that you WILL find an answer.

[Ladyjane14]

You can't imagine being too beat for sex because men have a lot of testosterone flowing and telling their bodies to get going and have some sex. You probably could manage it even if you were so tired you could drop. So you think women could but just won't. Not the case.

 

You've had some great responses.... but I think it's important for you to look at this little gem from Outcast one more time.

 

The physiological thing that makes you want your wife sexually isn't there for her. Testosterone levels in her body are miniscule compared to yours. She may have a small elevation just before ovulation or just before menses... but other than that... she's got virtually no libido juice.

 

Her attitude is fairly normal for women with small children. I felt the same way when I was your wife's age and my kids were babies. And it's temporary unless you make a big deal of it psychologically.

 

It's commendable that you two are working hard on solving the problem together, but try not to push for perfection. Read JamesM's post twice... he's a succuss story.

[marriedwithtwo]

Wow! Great feedback, it's nice to have an outside viewpoint.

 

I do often try to kiss her, and caress her when it is not in a sexual manner. She appreciates it, but honesty I think it goes back to that she is so "worn down" from the day that it's really not that important (the attention and physical touch). I've actually given her more space lately after the kids are in bed and she seems to like that.

 

She does work 2 days a week by choice (as a break, really).

 

Also, we regularly take vacations. We just got back from a 2 week vacation in Italy without the kids. That is where all the discussion started because we read the books on the plane.

 

I don't feel that I can be totally honest with her. The only time I was totally honest it hurt her feeling totally and freaked her out that we had big problems. I choose not to be totally open because if I was we would be having sex conversations all the time. For her sanity, that would not be fair. So I have come here somewhat to share (this is not something I could share with anyone I know).

 

The bathroom re-do is on hold for a year, but we also have a jacuzzi tub which is 12' x 6'. We take baths together, but she sees that as relaxing only so I respect that. But that's the only time I really get to see her naked in some light. It's hard to hold back.

 

I just read James' post more completely. I hear the overwhelming response is to appreciate her as is, don't pressure, and love unconditionally more.

 

Tonight, I will talk with her and frankly ask her if i am giving too much pressure and expecting too much. I think she will answer honestly. I DO NOT want to chase her away in the long run by my desire for more creative sex (her resenting it).

 

Good discussion

[whichwayisup]

You know what? Let her get hurt. Hate to say this, but maybe if she feels hurt and sees that YOU ARE HURTING too, she may open her eyes and put more effort in.

 

You will be speaking to her from a place of love - Not a mean place. She knows this as do you...Marriage and relationships are hard work at times, and sometimes honest - yet painful - conversations have to take place for change. Don't be afraid of it! If you can't truely be honest and talk openly with your spouse, then the marriage will eventually fall apart.

[worriedsick]

Okay, from what I can gather from the posts, you have basically gotten what you wanted from your wife. Instead of turning you down because she's to tired, she gives it up to you to make you happy. Now, that's not good enough. Now you're wanting her to be more "into it" the way she used to. I know "pity sex" isn't that fun, as I have given it to my husband numerous times to shut him up, but like you said, it is better than nothing. I think most of the self-help books are garbage and they don't seem to be helping you two anyway. It seems to me that the more you bother her to read these books or to get more into sex, the more pissed off she is going to be which may result in less sex again. Besides, the last thing a mother of two toddlers wants to do is read a stupid self-help book. My suggestion would be to be happy with what you have and stop pushing her to be the "porn star" you want.

[JamesM]

MW2, after reading about hurting her, please let me tell you what I also think opened my wife's eyes. Yes, she had a med change and this increased her libido, but I gave her "the talk."

 

One of my earlier threads was "A Letter to My Wife.." Basically, in that letter I explained to her why sex was important to our marriage and me. No, I never gave her that letter. In fact I was never going to tell her what was in it.

 

One night shortly after the med change, I came out of bed...she was still up. Something came over me. I think I was so filled with anger and frustration. Here she had been feeling better. And still she didn't seem to think sex was important. I had brought it up that night, and she seemed interested, but by nighttime the same thing had happened. I went to bed, and she did not follow. I asked her what was going to make our sex life change, and did she realize what damage this was doing to us, etc. Basically everything in my letter including that if she felt she could no longer do it, then she shouldn't mind if I looked elsewhere. I gave her the book I mentioned above and said that this tells it like I feel. Anyhow, I went back to bed in great fear that I committed an error to my ever getting any sex life with her back. The hurt on her face was enough to make me wonder what my end result would be.

 

The next day I went to work and spent the morning feeling depressed and worried. I came home for lunch as usual. I didn't say much to her. She made me lunch as usual and we ate with some small talk. As we finished lunch, she cleaned up the table, then came over to me and sat in my lap. This was an incredible surprise as she hadn't done this in months. She had some tears in her eyes. She kissed me and (since the children were around) said quietly in my ear...and with a catch in her voice, "Please be patient with me. I can feel the interest returning. I read the book somewhat. I do love you very much." We went on the couch and cuddled like we were first dating.

 

The next night we made love like we hadn't in years. She had orgasms, and I felt like a man. Seven times in that month. Remember that we rarely had it once a month. Wow! From that day until now, we have hugged and kisssed more than we have since before we had children. I still marvel as I write this. I truly thought things would never change.

 

Why do I write this? The hurt that she felt when I told her...and yes, I saw it in her eyes...opened her eyes to the realization for the first time as to where our marriage was going. That talk made her realize that now that she felt better, she should probably use that hew energy in changing the direction we were going. I think she needed to develop the interest in sex again. And once it came back, the urges came with it. I give her much credit for this. She has a difficult time admitting her faults...as I do, but she knew that I bared my soul for the first time without showing concern for using proper words. She still has a lower interest than I do, but she is always willing when I approach now. But I also am understanding that I stay sensitive to how she feels. I do not push her if she seems reluctant. I would hate to go back in time.

 

Again, I don't think I said things properly. I don't think it was only because I talked to her. Maybe she would have come around only with the medicine. But in your case, being concerned too much about her feelings may only build up anger and frustration that can lead to divorce. Then she can say that you never really told her. Say it with language that does consider her feelings, but say it like it needs to be said.