This is not meant to offend & is more sociology than religion...

[konfused]

How do you all know that god is a man? Where's the proof? There is none. Hence, there is no need to provide empirical proof for anything because it will not be taken into account.

[beach]

How do you all know that god is a man? Where's the proof? There is none. Hence, there is no need to provide empirical proof for anything because it will not be taken into account.

 

 

We don't know he is a man. Who knows what or who he is. That is where your personal faith comes into play.

[HokeyReligions]

You see, not answering HOW the world began lets you draw up as many theories as your mind can imagine. However, if one determines how the world began...with a Creator or without One...the answer to this question will determine who we are, why we are here, and where we are going.

 

For if there is a God, then we must answer to that God. If there is no God, then all we have is this miserable existence and nothing more.

 

To simply live for the now and "be convinced that God doesn't exist" ignores all reality.

 

I disagree. We are who we are no matter what our beginnings. Why is it so important to know 'why' we are here? We are here no matter the why. And we'll go where we are going no matter what. How is that ignoring reality? What's wrong with imagination and theories? Where would the human race be without those?

[HokeyReligions]

What if evolution continues in the same way it's progressed, and the races are to become one race? Through DNA cloning we can eliminate disease. With much focus on sexual identity, perhaps we are headed for becoming asexuals with reproduction abilities. This race would be good for what? Life in space.

 

Humans are gaining knowledge of life in space. We've explored it and are constantly learning more and more. What if humans progress into no longer needing what we require down here on earth? Then the end of the earth through mass destruction or other means wouldn't be so devastating. Humans would have options other than life on earth, and it may prove to be better suited at meeting the needs of the race at the time.

 

Maybe there will come a time when our evolved human race living in outer space will think of the humans who walked the earth the same way we view dinosaurs: Simplistically composed and obsolete.

 

Now that is very interesting to think about!

[HokeyReligions]

See? People always ignore the 'prove love exists' challenge because it proves that abstract concepts can't be proven empirically. Thus shooting the 'proof' discussion all to blazes

 

As I stated before, which you seem to not understand or choose to ignore, I am not trying to prove anything. I don't need to or want to. I don't require proof to discuss a topic or listen to opinions or share opinions and thoughts.

[amaysngrace]

Now that is very interesting to think about!

 

Thanks Hokey. Now you see why I try to avoid thinking as a rule...I live in La-La Land.

[quankanne]

That's what I'm thinking - the ability to believe taps into a part of the physical brain that non-believers are unable to tap into. Kind of like a physical training for the brain.

 

which goes back to the understanding believers have: That when God created us, he left a little bit of himself in us. Not so that we become little gods ourselves, but so that when he calls us back to him, we hear that call because we're part of him. Which, I guess would be a kind of instinct that a believer is very aware of, while non-believers ignore.

 

in an earlier post, someone wrote that knowlege explains away God and faith, which are unexplainable. But, man is more complex than his intellect or his need for knowledge, there's something spiritual about him whether he recognizes that spirituality or not. Intellect can only yield so much when the human spirit yearns for something more. A believer will say this yearning is that call from God, while a non-believer will ask, "is this some form of craziness?" because there is no way to break down what he's feeling into something that can be intellectually explained. Or he can simply ignore that yearning because it's not easily answered by attaining more "stuff."

 

the simplest analogy is to look at relationships between a couple. One person gives love without stopping to analyze it, while the other questions that love every step of the way. For the lover, even if the relationship sours, it's still an experience he is willing to face, because sharing that love is is what is important, even though he cannot explain how or why – it simply is. For the other person, love can never be enough because this person isn't capable of grasping the fact that it can merely exist without a reason.

 

the believer – in God, in love, in hope – accepts that it simply exists and doesn't need to brain it to death.

 

good golly, hokey, you really pose some mind-stretching questions on this forum! :laugh:

[bluetuesday]

We are here no matter the why.

 

are we? how do we know? because we experience it? where is the evidence that's not linked to human experience?

 

perhaps we are not here. perhaps we just believe we are.

[amaysngrace]

perhaps we are not here. perhaps we just believe we are.

 

 

Wow...this is one great dream I'm having!

[alphamale]

Barbra Walters did a show on Heaven a while back.

So Barbara WaWa is the expert on heaven? Has she been there? Did she interview someone who's been there? What a load of ****.

 

...I live in La-La Land.

My deepest sympathies go out to you

[westernxer]

So Barbara WaWa is the expert on heaven? Has she been there? Did she interview someone who's been there? What a load of ****.

 

She was supposed to interview God, but God's manager failed to return her phone calls.

[alphamale]

She was supposed to interview God, but God's manager failed to return her phone calls.

..

[HokeyReligions]

are we? how do we know? because we experience it? where is the evidence that's not linked to human experience?

 

perhaps we are not here. perhaps we just believe we are.

 

 

Perhaps that IS the answer. As Robin Williams once said: "Reality - what a concept"

 

Given the wide variety of responses seems (to me) to unify the human species rather than divide it. We are all using our abilities the same way even though our opinions are so different. The thing that unifies us is that we all Have opinions at all. Content is irrelevant - we have faith in a supreme being, we don't have faith in a supreme being; we believe, we don't believe; pardon the cruditiy, but its like a big intellectual dump. If you take Pepto your poop comes out black. If you eat beans your poop is preceded by gaseous emmissions - the end result is the same - the body dumps the waste. The expression of thought and opinion and belief is the same - it comes out no matter the input. (not saying that opinion is waste - it's not )

[amaysngrace]

 

My deepest sympathies go out to you

 

 

Thanks Alpha...and mine to you.

[Outcast]

I have taken the part on the side of theories for why people have faith or belief in something not prooved. The more we debated this the more firmly I believe that God does not exist.

 

Why? Because you are becoming convinced that 'proof' is required, correct? And if you base your requirement on that assumption, then that assumption must hold true for other beliefs you hold else the logic underlying rejection of God's existence does not hold.

 

So if you believe in love without empirical proof that it exists, you cannot disbelieve in God because empirical proof does not exist. It's not logically consistent to believe in some things that are unproven but not others

[lindya]

Certain theological claims are open to scientific criticism - but proving or disproving the existence of an all-powerful, spiritual deity is beyond the scope of scientists and philosophers. That's probably why I find atheists as difficult to relate to as I find those religious fundamentalists who lack tolerance for any behaviour that isn't condoned by their bible.

 

For me, the essence of religious faith involves believing that one has a soul that can transcend the physical body....and if there is such a thing as that soul, then there must be something beyond physical matter that created it.

I don't know whether there is such a thing as a human soul in that context. I'd certainly like to think so, but without firm evidence, I'm not in a position to argue it. Therefore I don't believe or disbelieve. I simply hope.

 

Hope often translates into belief. We believe what we want to believe - or need to believe in order to get through difficult times. Organised religion then steps in to tell us, I suppose, what we need to do in order to have a happy afterlife. That's the part I reject. I take the view that there are sources other than the bible that give as good - and in many cases, far more intellectually sound, guidance on the most humane way to treat others and help them to flourish.

 

As for whether faith is worth intellectual analysis and debate - definitely. Many times, people do lack self confidence, and therefore must find something else to rely on to motivate them to keep going. If faith in an external entity can provide them with that motivation when nothing else can, then that faith is surely a valid aspect of human functioning....and I see every aspect of human functioning as being worthy of discussion and analysis.

[HokeyReligions]

If faith in an external entity can provide them with that motivation when nothing else can, then that faith is surely a valid aspect of human functioning.

 

Interesting. Maybe God exists in faith - maybe 'faith' is another word for God or perhaps even heaven.

 

Did man put a name to a belief and from that stems the rituals, behaviors, and the 'being'? "I AM WHO I AM" - God could be abstract and only attained the status of a separate being through the years of passing on stories in a human effort to explain and teach. The minister at one of the churches I used to attend (yes, I was raised as a Christian) answered the question of "what was God before the written word was invented - how did anyone know Him?" by saying that the stories were told and passed down and became organized through human socialization and the progress of communication.

 

Anyone ever read the book Earth Abides? (good book btw) Remember the hammer and how the new generations attributed a power and a status to it? Maybe the concept of God began similarly.

 

And yes, Outcast, I did say that the more I debated this, the further I got from a belief in God. But I'm not asking for empirical proof - that was just part of the discussion I am having outside of LS and was used to further the discussion of how some *can* believe without such proof – what is it in the human species that requires proof for some and not for others.

 

Does love exist? To some it does, to others it does not. I could claim that some of my experiences come from God because of a faith in that God - but I have never experienced anything that would lead me to that conclusion unless I make a conscious decision to attribute it such – but I still wouldn’t ‘believe’ the same way others do, although through constant ritual and affirmations I may come to that belief. Love may someday be explained by chemical actions and reactions in the human body. I have experienced strong feelings that I can only call "love" but they may classified differently by different people. Hope or optimism are different things entirely. They are more a state of mental being or an active part of thought. We can tell ourselves to hope or to be optimistic the emotion we classify as ‘love’ is generally something that we cannot talk ourselves into, or out of. Through constant affirmations one may come to believe they love another – but what of that ‘love?’ Wouldn’t it also be false? If it is forced is it still true? If God is so all-knowing as many believe, wouldn’t He know if the belief were sincere?

 

People fall in and out of love. Does God fall in and out of existence?

[Outcast]

People fall in and out of love. Does God fall in and out of existence?

 

Love and God continue to exist regardless of whether people believe in either

Gravity existed even before anybody knew what it was or how it worked

[amaysngrace]

Love and God continue to exist regardless of whether people believe in either

 

 

Exactly. Even if all living creatures died off, God would still exist.

[amaysngrace]

Interesting. Maybe God exists in faith - maybe 'faith' is another word for God or perhaps even heaven.

 

 

No, no and No! God is a Being, faith is a belief, and Heaven is a place. All three are entirely different and aren't interchangable, Hokey.

[HokeyReligions]

No, no and No! God is a Being, faith is a belief, and Heaven is a place. All three are entirely different and aren't interchangable, Hokey.

 

For those who believe in God, yes this is the structure of their belief. I don't believe in God so I don't subscribe to that structure. I don't see these beliefs as being different - belief is belief. That act of belief is what sets us apart from other species. One has to have faith to believe that God is a being and that Heaven is a place. Suppose those words were different.

 

Explain 'blue' to a blind person who doesn't speak your language. What words do you use?

[alphamale]

Love and God continue to exist regardless of whether people believe in either

Nope, both are creations of the human race. If humans ceased to exist then God & Love would cease to exist.

 

Gravity existed even before anybody knew what it was or how it worked

Gravity is needed to keep the Universe a going concern....God & Love are not.

 

Explain 'blue' to a blind person who doesn't speak your language. What words do you use?

A mix of green and yellow

[Outcast]

If humans ceased to exist then God & Love would cease to exist.

 

And the tree falling in the forest wouldn't make a noise In fact, nothing actually exists because everything is always in a state of change. There is no now. There is no is.

[alphamale]

And the tree falling in the forest wouldn't make a noise In fact, nothing actually exists because everything is always in a state of change. There is no now. There is no is.

Present some scripture or documentation from another extraterrestrial civilization that shows that they believe in the same "God" and "Love" that humans do and then I will believe.

[amaysngrace]

Explain 'blue' to a blind person who doesn't speak your language. What words do you use?

 

Hmmm....to describe blue to a blind person who doesn't speak my language, I would put their hands into slightly cooler than tepid water. I would make them a vanilla milkshake with a hint of mint to smell and taste. Maybe I would play some slow classical music for them to hear. Or take them outside to feel fresh fallen snow on their face...

 

And hopefully they will feel the color blue, the color of calm.