Some girls are just cruel...

[mixwell]

Listen to what people are saying and seriously give it up and stop trying to analyze it.. When my ex broke up with me I tried everything from calling her all the time to questioning her and all it does is really push them away. We even went as far as hanging out and this and that (she had a b/f already though) which I should have seen but didn't want to accept it and kept persuing her. It really isn't worth all the torment you are putting on yourself. As much advise as I had gotten on LS at the time I didn't listen and had to find out for myself. Seems like you are too much in denial and keep on with the "what if's" all the things you mentioned about her talking to you all the time and taking dogs for a walk is something she would do with one of her chick friends.

 

Look how longs its been since that kiss ? All you are doing is putting yourself through more misery and one day you will finally see it and get sick of it and cut it off. You might just need to do what you want to figure it out and experience it they way most of us have before you will see that we were right but sometimes all of the advice in the world won't matter until you expierence it yourself 1st hand. If anything this should be a learning process for you. I know my situation was different being as this was my ex I was going back after but it is the same idea and the same things that my ex and this chick and many other females do..

 

Seriously just give it up but its most likely you won't because you are in denial so go ahead and keep pushing it and hoping and onces you realize we are right you will understand what we meant. I know it sucks going through it but eventually it will get better and you will meet someone else out there that has interest in you.. Don't waste your time on the back burner thinking this girl will change her mind. IF she does change her mind you will know it but for now stop focusing on it soo much.. Hope all goes well with you and things get better..

 

Peace

[Island Girl]

Perhaps it's an issue of semantics. I really have yet to meet a mature (i.e. beyond 25) woman who is looking for 'challenge'. That's a Harlequin thing. I've yet to see 'challenge' on any woman's list of desirable qualities in a male. In fact 'challenge' can very often be a pretty name for 'obstinate' or 'controlling' or 'narrow-minded' or 'self-centered'. None really desirable qualities.

 

'Challenge' is NOT the words above.

 

Shall I explain?

 

It is the man:

 

Who is not controlling - nor will he be controlled.

 

Who is not narrow-minded - nor does he expect his partner to be.

 

Who is not obstinate - but has a strong foundation of belief or knowledge

 

Who is not self-centered - nor is he self-effacing.

 

Believe me, you may not see 'challenge' on any woman's list but it is a characteristic we look for. Generally it is not in the initial phase but over the time of getting to know someone.

 

And I know there are lists out there in many numbers of what women want. In truth - it is not what we want.

 

Ask a woman what she wants - she wants a man who is "sensitive" for instance. But in actuality, no woman wants a guy who sobs at the drop of a hat, or even one who is constantly evaluating "feelings".

 

We are told that is what we want - that we need to encourage men to get in touch with their feminine side.

 

And it sounds nice when we put it down on paper.

 

But it is not what makes us stick. What does is the MAN'S version of sensitivity. Sometimes that means reacting - jaw clenched - quiet strength in his solitude - or reaching out when he is ready to do that when his emotions are a bit "in check".

 

It is different than the way WE would react. So we are drawn to it. We appreciate the strength in it that is so different from our own. It makes us feel we have someone to lean on when we do succumb to our entrenched emotions. We crave it.

 

There are a lot of things like that.

 

It is the great tragedy of our culture - it is happening in other cultures as well - that we no longer teach boys how to be MEN. We no longer focus on and nurture the things that are inherently different in men and women.

 

We try to mesh the two together and the creation is men who do not know how to give a woman what she needs and women who do not know how to give a man what he needs.

 

MAX --

 

You are right on with your post. Really. The break down of events thoughts, feelings, etc. all completely accurate.

 

You really feel at home in your skin don't you?

[sibernox]

Yeah, it's done.

[Mary3]

'Challenge' is NOT the words above.

 

Shall I explain?

 

It is the man:

 

Who is not controlling - nor will he be controlled.

 

Who is not narrow-minded - nor does he expect his partner to be.

 

Who is not obstinate - but has a strong foundation of belief or knowledge

 

Who is not self-centered - nor is he self-effacing.

 

Believe me, you may not see 'challenge' on any woman's list but it is a characteristic we look for. Generally it is not in the initial phase but over the time of getting to know someone.

 

And I know there are lists out there in many numbers of what women want. In truth - it is not what we want.

 

Ask a woman what she wants - she wants a man who is "sensitive" for instance. But in actuality, no woman wants a guy who sobs at the drop of a hat, or even one who is constantly evaluating "feelings".

 

We are told that is what we want - that we need to encourage men to get in touch with their feminine side.

 

And it sounds nice when we put it down on paper.

 

But it is not what makes us stick. What does is the MAN'S version of sensitivity. Sometimes that means reacting - jaw clenched - quiet strength in his solitude - or reaching out when he is ready to do that when his emotions are a bit "in check".

 

It is different than the way WE would react. So we are drawn to it. We appreciate the strength in it that is so different from our own. It makes us feel we have someone to lean on when we do succumb to our entrenched emotions. We crave it.

 

There are a lot of things like that.

 

It is the great tragedy of our culture - it is happening in other cultures as well - that we no longer teach boys how to be MEN. We no longer focus on and nurture the things that are inherently different in men and women.

 

We try to mesh the two together and the creation is men who do not know how to give a woman what she needs and women who do not know how to give a man what he needs.

 

MAX --

 

You are right on with your post. Really. The break down of events thoughts, feelings, etc. all completely accurate.

 

You really feel at home in your skin don't you?

 

VERY beautifully spoken !

[Max Overclock]

MAX --

 

You are right on with your post. Really. The break down of events thoughts, feelings, etc. all completely accurate.

 

You really feel at home in your skin don't you?

 

Of course. Hmmm ... the fact that you wrote that as a question makes me wonder something:

 

Whose skin do you feel at home in?

 

You're not like Hannibal Lecter or somethin, are ya?

 

Max

[Guest]

 

Ask a woman what she wants - she wants a man who is "sensitive" for instance. But in actuality, no woman wants a guy who sobs at the drop of a hat, or even one who is constantly evaluating "feelings".

 

Why must people engage in hyperbole? How does it follow that a sensitive man 'sobs at the drop of a hat'? I suppose there might be a few people like that of both genders, but women who want 'sensitive' men want men who are capable of compassion and empathy and men who won't pretend to not be bothered when difficult situations arise. Which is not the same as being spigots.

 

It is different than the way WE would react. So we are drawn to it. We appreciate the strength in it that is so different from our own. It makes us feel we have someone to lean on when we do succumb to our entrenched emotions. We crave it.

 

Um. Speak for yourself. 'Succumb to our entrenched emotions'? Please. If what you're saying is that you're a basket case that needs a more stable person to keep you from losing it entirely, well you have my sympathy but please don't assume all women are that fragile or that lacking in ability to cope.

 

It is the great tragedy of our culture - it is happening in other cultures as well - that we no longer teach boys how to be MEN. We no longer focus on and nurture the things that are inherently different in men and women.

 

No. What we stopped doing was pretending that males are not human and that they have no feelings. For too long we have forced the other gender to pretend it's inhuman. What we've done with that selfish desire is to cause them to die sooner of heart attacks and strokes and other manner of stress-induced illnesses. We have done our fellow humans a huge disservice by forcing them into a mold they didn't belong in. Some of us, seemingly, cherish the idea of 'feminine' as 'weak, helpless, and feeble'.

 

We would be much better served to support our fellow females in developing their own resiliency and coping skills so that men's energy can be used in more productive enterprises than holding poor helpless women together in times of trouble.

[Max Overclock]

Why must people engage in hyperbole?

I agree. No need of it.

Um. Speak for yourself. 'Succumb to our entrenched emotions'? Please. If what you're saying is that you're a basket case that needs a more stable person to keep you from losing it entirely, well you have my sympathy but please don't assume all women are that fragile or that lacking in ability to cope.

Hmm ... this sounds like deliberate exaggeration in itself.

No. What we stopped doing was pretending that males are not human and that they have no feelings. For too long we have forced the other gender to pretend it's inhuman. What we've done with that selfish desire is to cause them to die sooner of heart attacks and strokes and other manner of stress-induced illnesses.

If you are trying to suggest that the emotional stress and strain that has caused men to suffer heart attacks, strokes, etc., may be because women have forced men to pretend they're inhuman, forcing them to bury/suppress feelings that they can't slip into their relationships, etc., then I'd like to see the evidence.

We have done our fellow humans a huge disservice by forcing them into a mold they didn't belong in. Some of us, seemingly, cherish the idea of 'feminine' as 'weak, helpless, and feeble'.

I don't remember this thread implying that.

We would be much better served to support our fellow females in developing their own resiliency and coping skills so that men's energy can be used in more productive enterprises than holding poor helpless women together in times of trouble.

Such a philosophy is, IMHO, counterproductive and clouds the issues unnecessarily. Women are no more lacking in resiliency than men are in their ability to feel or express affection and warmth. What is fact is that women and men are different. To socialize either to behave or think more in line with what, traditionally, has been typical of the other, is misguided. If we fail to recognize the differences, and celebrate them, women lose out on the characteristics that they naturally find attractive in men, and men lose out on those characteristics that nature has tuned them to find attractive in women.

 

Max