I'm the MM and I love my OW - now what?

[silktricks]

As for the posters who immediately state "NC to the OW." First, let me re-state, I believe NC is needed here. However, how would you feel if you were the wife and your H just did just this...walkout, and and told you nothing. After X number of years of marriage you have some "rights" as the spouse to know what the hell just happened. And you could be pushed over the edge as well to behave just as this OW has behaved.

 

I'm not trying to impose which is right or which is wrong in these situtations, but to offer some compassion for both women who needed told the truth from the beginning.

 

UKOW, I agree that compassion is a badly needed component of H2T's personality that needs work, and that he should have contacted her in the beginning and told her that he was going to try to work out his marriage. I disagree however, that at this point any contact with the OW is a good thing.

 

The OW in this case went over the bounds of acceptable behavior. (I am making no comment as to what drove her or did not drive her - just stating what the behavior was.)

 

1. she had never been invited to his home. Therefore it was apparent that she was not welcome there.

 

2. she chose to throw the affair in his wife's face. She obviously didn't go there to throw it in HIS face. He was pretty well aware of it.

 

3. he didn't contact the OW again after her first incursion of his home. (not saying that he shouldn't have or should have, just saying he didn't - which implied lack of interest at best.)

 

4. the OW came to his home again, and persisted to the point where the police were called.

 

Sorry if more happened - this thread got long and I haven't read everything to catch up.

 

But, my point is that it must be clearly obvious to the OW that H2T is not interested. Any effort by him to see her, talk to her, contact her in any way would almost certainly imply to her that he DOES want contact and IS interested. This would be confusing at least and harmful at most, especially since it's obvious that she's already been driven over the brink.

 

As far as his marriage is concerned, any contact H2T would have with the OW would certainly imply to his wife that he is more concerned about the OW's feelings than he his her feelings. Not a good thing if he wants to make the marriage work. (I know that will drive the OW's on this thread crazy, and I'm sorry about that, but speaking as a former BS, it's still the truth.)

[newbby]

And do you think they should all meet and have a spot of tea so they can have a nice conversation about the affair? Please now is not the time for apologies to be worried about unless it is H2T apologizing to get over the first hurdle to mend his marriage.

 

the way i see it, if the ow keeps reminding them of her existence it will be worse, and if he wants to get rid of the ow, it is best to simply apologise. it is so simple. maybe at this point it isnt the best thing to do, since the police have already been involved. i dont know. i just think apologies are nicer, somehow. nevermind.

[BUTAFLY]

You know - it's what I actually felt at the time. You may never have experienced what I'm experiencing .. but right now I feel absolutely nothing for the OW as was pining for a couple of weeks ago and I feel nothing but desire to reconcile with W that I couldn't wait to get away from.

 

Why? I can't tell .. but I suspect it's because my previous feelings were based on fantasy which evaporated once reality set in. I realized that I never really loved OW and that I loved W all along. I had allowed myself to feel hurt and rejected by W and thus felt justified in what I did. I was so angry at her at times, that I wanted to just tell her I was f*ckign someone else just so she would stop being so smug about treating me like sh*t for so long.

 

It's all very complex. But after the "incident" as you call it - I realized that the marriage was more important that I thought and OW just wasn't.

 

I'm also aware of myself idealizing W in spite of the things she has done to me. She has been downright awful to me. My father and a couple of my close friends were downright shocked at times when they saw what she would do. I keep forgetting these things and thinking that things were happy and blissful. They were not. I had actually consulted a divorce lawyer a year and a half ago before there was any OW. But I want to find a way to keep us together now.

 

Maybe that doesn't make any sense to you - but I was expressing what I truly felt at the time. I've been wavering and faltering back and forth, I know. But that's where I was.

 

NOW TELL OW THAT. Read what you wrote here if need be- tell her something. If thats how you felt then, and you don't hate her, don't you feel you owe it to her to say something? Besidess this was the woman who you're gonna leave W for justs days ago. Plus if you do tell her then perhaps she will leave you alone.

[Hard2Think]

the way i see it, if the ow keeps reminding them of her existence it will be worse, and if he wants to get rid of the ow, it is best to simply apologise. it is so simple. maybe at this point it isnt the best thing to do, since the police have already been involved. i dont know. i just think apologies are nicer, somehow. nevermind.

 

If she had called me on the phone instead of showing up - I would have talked to her and apologized. I was going to send her a "we're through" email for her and for W's benefit. But after she showed up again and refused to leave - I don't think it's a good idea to speak to her anymore.

[newbby]

I'm also aware of myself idealizing W in spite of the things she has done to me. She has been downright awful to me. My father and a couple of my close friends were downright shocked at times when they saw what she would do. I keep forgetting these things and thinking that things were happy and blissful. They were not. I had actually consulted a divorce lawyer a year and a half ago before there was any OW. But I want to find a way to keep us together now.

 

Maybe that doesn't make any sense to you - but I was expressing what I truly felt at the time. I've been wavering and faltering back and forth, I know. But that's where I was.

 

this is why i think IC is very important for you. you seem to be so confused and you need to get some clarity.

[Hard2Think]

this is why i think IC is very important for you. you seem to be so confused and you need to get some clarity.

 

I agree - but my first priority is MC right now - starting next Friday. Hopefully W will choose to join me.

[newbby]

If she had called me on the phone instead of showing up - I would have talked to her and apologized. I was going to send her a "we're through" email for her and for W's benefit. But after she showed up again and refused to leave - I don't think it's a good idea to speak to her anymore.

 

yeah maybe, why didnt you apologise when she showed up?

[a4a]

well yes, but if it were all handled from this point on with maturity then there is no need for the kids to be affected. dont be negative, the kids can be protected from this if everybody deals with it in an adult and responsible manner. i believe an apology is an adult thing to do and a mature way to handle things. it is usually the way these things are handled that effects the kids, i really believe this to be true. but for gods sake, dont start limiting the kids by labelling them all damaged.

 

 

How do you think the kids will feel when Daddy doesn't live with them any more? (I hope that does not happen tho)....... Do you think they won't notice?

 

New invention idea : the Daddy Decoy Doll... ..... yes I will have to work on this perhaps it would replace a father figure in their home.

 

I have never read your posts about being a OW but I am guessing you are or were one?

 

May I ask where is the harm if they can attempt to mend their marriage and learn how to become better partners?....... You seem so pro OW and not so supportive of the OPs decision to attempt to work things out with his wife.

 

Please keep in mind the OW is not posting here for support..... H2T is. And at this point right now he does not want the OW, he wants his wife..... and I do not doubt that he always wanted his wife but did not have the ability or know how on how to help his marriage nor the backbone to face that his marriage was faltering and demand change..... instead he ran around with a willing party.

 

 

And not to be rude but if you walk into a marriage as an knowing and willing OW you gotta know there is a chance you are going to get burned... Hell for that matter just being a gf/bf with an unmarried person...... that is life. If you don't then yeah ya probably got a screw loose or are living in la la land.

 

Bickering again and again that the OW is owed something is not productive at this point. She apparently got what she wanted when she trespassed on the W's property and stated she wanted her to know about the A..... she must have thought about it a great deal to print out emails and such.... she wanted it to blow up....... and it did. Her wish was granted.

 

Now if the OW were posting here what would you say to support her? But she is not posting here.... only H2T is.

[newbby]

2. she chose to throw the affair in his wife's face. She obviously didn't go there to throw it in HIS face. He was pretty well aware of it.

but it was obviously to get at him silk tricks. oh no, you are of the belief that ow get off on rubbing it in wifes face. it gets worse.

But, my point is that it must be clearly obvious to the OW that H2T is not interested. Any effort by him to see her, talk to her, contact her in any way would almost certainly imply to her that he DOES want contact and IS interested.

maybe, maybe now at this point. it depends on how it was done, i suppose, but you might be right.

 

As far as his marriage is concerned, any contact H2T would have with the OW would certainly imply to his wife that he is more concerned about the OW's feelings than he his her feelings. Not a good thing if he wants to make the marriage work. (I know that will drive the OW's on this thread crazy, and I'm sorry about that, but speaking as a former BS, it's still the truth.)

i could see it might be construed that way. i just see it as the right thing to do, and shows him of better character, to whomever.

[newbby]

How do you think the kids will feel when Daddy doesn't live with them any more? (I hope that does not happen tho)....... Do you think they won't notice?

you misunderstood, i meant dealing with it in a mature manner whilst repairing the marriage.

May I ask where is the harm if they can attempt to mend their marriage and learn how to become better partners?....... You seem so pro OW and not so supportive of the OPs decision to attempt to work things out with his wife.

nope. an apology to the ow is not the equivalent of a relationship with her and not working on his marriage, maybe this is where the anti apology idea comes in. does an apology mean that he wants to continue seeing the ow? no, an apology is just an apology.

because i think he owes the ow an apology, this means to you that i am anti him working on his marriage? how strange.

i actually posted in support of him working on his marriage, but obviously to those with the view that "i'm sorry" translates as "i want a relationship with you and i want to divorce my wife", then i would be seen as being anti working on the marriage.

And not to be rude but if you walk into a marriage as an knowing and willing OW you gotta know there is a chance you are going to get burned... Hell for that matter just being a gf/bf with an unmarried person...... that is life. If you don't then yeah ya probably got a screw loose or are living in la la land.

sure. but i think it is generally the case that when somebody no longer wants a relationship with you they tell you, rather than calling the police on you.

Bickering again and again that the OW is owed something is not productive at this point. She apparently got what she wanted when she trespassed on the W's property and stated she wanted her to know about the A..... she must have thought about it a great deal to print out emails and such.... she wanted it to blow up....... and it did. Her wish was granted.

i think it is relevant, considering that he wants the ow to go away.

Now if the OW were posting here what would you say to support her? But she is not posting here.... only H2T is.

is this an actual question?

[whichwayisup]

sure. but i think it is generally the case that when somebody no longer wants a relationship with you they tell you, rather than calling the police on you.

 

The OW isn't that stupid. She KNEW going to his house, confronting his wife with emails and information that it was OVER.

 

yeah maybe, why didnt you apologise when she showed up?

 

He is supposed to say sorry the OW while the OW is telling his wife about their affair? WTF. Sorry, but I don't see how or why ANYBODY in their right mind would say sorry to the OW when she was spilling the beans at the front door to the MM's spouse. Am I misunderstanding you Newbby?

[silktricks]

but it was obviously to get at him silk tricks. oh no, you are of the belief that ow get off on rubbing it in wifes face.

 

Newbby, if you would kindly stop making assumptions about what I do and do not believe I'd appreciate it. I have no such belief.

 

She may have been aiming the throw at the husband, but she threw it in the wife's face. What had the wife ever done to her? Nothing, except be married to the man she wanted.

 

i could see it might be construed that way. i just see it as the right thing to do, and shows him of better character, to whomever.

 

It might have showed him to be of better character if he had apologized and explained things in the beginning, but as A4A has stated so well, when did this become a "let's help out the OW" thread? This thread is about H2T, his issues, and now his marriage. He's decided he wants to work on the marriage. If that's truly what he wants to do, then NO CONTACT can be had with the OW.

 

What so many OW have commented on is the confusion that they have by the MM, and the fact that after NC is initiated the MM starts contact again. Well, NC has been pretty forcefully initiated. Do you really feel that him contacting her and apologizing wouldn't create confusion?

[newbby]

The OW isn't that stupid. She KNEW going to his house, confronting his wife with emails and information that it was OVER.

its not about being stupid, is that another stereotype wwiu?

 

He is supposed to say sorry the OW while the OW is telling his wife about their affair? WTF. Sorry, but I don't see how or why ANYBODY in their right mind would say sorry to the OW when she was spilling the beans at the front door to the MM's spouse. Am I misunderstanding you Newbby?

yeah you are. i meant the second time.

[tinktronik]

nope. an apology to the ow is not the equivalent of a relationship with her and not working on his marriage, maybe this is where the anti apology idea comes in. does an apology mean that he wants to continue seeing the ow? no, an apology is just an apology.

because i think he owes the ow an apology, this means to you that i am anti him working on his marriage? how strange.

?

Well, this OW aparently is NOT going to get an apology . H2T does not feel he wants to get one, and the police surly made it clear that the R is in fact over. If he apologizes or contacts the OW in any way at this point it would only make matters in his M worse. The wife would take it as an insult that he should care about the other person participating ,and how they feel , after they have disrsespected her and her marrige. She'll feel this way no matter what she has done wrong in their marrige.

[Hard2Think]

I was just thinking that I never explained how I came to mention divorce to W. The night before, W had gotten a prescription ordered at the pharmacy for Nexium. She asked me if I would go pick it up for her. I did and when I brought it back - she saw it cost 168 dollars. She got mad and asked me if I gave them the insurance card. I replied that I thought she had already given it to them when she ordered it. She then got very angry and started raising her voice about something I now forget. Turns out that the insurance I have (I'm self employed) still had unmet deductibles, which is fine.

 

I very carefully chose this insurance after alot of research. I chose a high deductible because it offers the best price while giving the best protection against major health issues. It has an extremely high maximum benefit (5M per person) and it's a AAA company. It's also a PPO - so we get to choose our physicians with or without referrals.

 

But she started yelling and pointing fingers t me accusing me of not knowing what the hell I'm doing and that she's going to have to find a better policy and all that. She then threw in there that I need to make more money. I made 240K last year. Meanwhile she's getting the kitchen redecorated with the finest wood and granite, the bathrooms have been redone completely to look like King Tut's tomb, and she drives a brand new Infinity SUV. I'm telling you - she didn't used to be like this at all.

 

Then later that night, she asks me to get her some bottled water for the fitness class she's teaching the next morning since she just realized she was all out. This was 9 PM - but I went. While I was there - I bought a few things including some collard greens. When I got back, she never said "thanks" or anything .. instead she yells at me about the collard greens 'Where the hell did you expect to put that? - Can't you see the fridge is full? I suppose you're going to leave it out to rot. What a waste of money.."

 

Then of course, that night, she crashes out without so much as "goodnight".

 

This type of thing is a very common occurrence at home ..

 

The next day, I was less than affectionate with her - and she comes over and asks me what's wrong. I told her I wasn't happy (I was till pissed about last night) and so she says neither is she .. I was got angry that she would say that. After all the sh*t I put up with and do for her she STILL isn't happy?? And so without pre-planning, I said "Let's get a divorce, then".

 

I want this marriage to work out, but I can't go back to the way it was and on top of it have the burden of being the WS while she beats me up about that. I can take the latter - but the former may need to change.

 

These are just random thoughts I'm having now.

[whichwayisup]

Just keep reading Dazed's thread...It'll keep you on the straight and narrow.

[UnknowingOW]

HT2...this is why counseling will help to get to the bottom of your M's communication issues. If you both are wanting to reconcile both are going to have to come completely clean with everything and table it. Yes, it is a hold nothing back approach, but it is the only way to get to a better place.

[Hard2Think]

Just keep reading Dazed's thread...It'll keep you on the straight and narrow.

 

I am. I scares me. After a year and a half he's still hating her and thinking about divorcing her ..

 

I'm still reading ..

[UnknowingOW]

As for all of us which have taken this thread and given it many different spins. This thread has sparked a HUGE debate on what is wrong and right about EMRs.

 

The whole thing boils down to EMRs will cause damage. And what H2T was trying to do was damage control.

 

Every relationship and EMR is different. Everyone has opinions on what H2T needed to do. But what caused the BIG debate was the OW's thoughts regarding this matter.

 

I would hope that BS and non-BS would gain some insight as to what it's like when you are the OW. Whether you know or not if the MM is married. You go into any relationship and base it on trust. Trust is the barometer as to which direction the relationship will go. I'm not sticking up for the OW. I hate the label...HATE IT. It has such negative imagines associated with it.

 

All any person wants is the truth from their partner, be it a W, a BS and/or OW. The truth you can handle. It's the deception you cannot...either party. Anyone who has walked in these shoes will know that.

 

Had H2T given the truth to both his W and the OW they would not be where they are today.

 

Maybe had the OW known the truth she would have walked away with dignity instead of acting out of emotion. Maybe his W would have changed had he be open with her from the beginning.

 

Please, I implore all of you...think about why the post are written. They are for help and for gaining insight into your own current situtations.

[JamesM]

This thread is reminding me of some sort of counselling group. H2T has come asking for advice...and he is getting it....or shall I say WAS.

 

Now, everyone is squabbling with each other about what advice is good, who is saying what properly, while he sits in the chair watching and waiting for advice that won't get attacked and torn apart. And yes, I am part of that group.

 

H2T, sorry about the wife call. You may have her attention right now. I have a question...is this all going to be worth it for you? You have stated that she was not a good wife in your opinion. Do you think she can change? I fear that any counselling will reflect on your indiscretion or betrayal rather than on any faults that you may think she...or she does... has/have.

 

I am going to suggest a book and an author. Her books tend to focus on what to do in the here and now to fix things...rather than constantly dwelling on "talking out the feelings and anger" which may or may not help. There is a book called Divorce Busting by Michele Weiner Davis. She has also written other books. One is The Sex Starved Marriage. And I am reading another by her called Change Your Life and Everyone in It (also called Fire Your Shrink). Since I have seen some of these principles work, I can wholeheartedly recommend her. She has a website as well...truthfully, not near as helpful or as enjoyable...or as entertaining...as this one.

 

Please don't expect much sympathy here. Of course, I think you have THAT much figured out by now. But I am certain you will find answers and direction here...if you wade through the inner discussions.

[Hard2Think]

Will it be all worth it? Maybe yes. It's worth a try. I'm hoping that maybe there are things I can change to allow her behavior not to make me feel so crappy about being married to her.

 

For example - I may have been able to say "Maybe you're right, honey. I did extensive research on the health insurance but you're good with numbers - maybe you can find something that'll work better .." and smiled and left it at that. Maybe if I do that every time, she'll beat me up less over time. Just maybe.

 

Maybe if she complains about the collard greens - I could have just said "Funny - that's what the guy at the supermarket said too" and then just winked at her. Maybe that would cause her to stop that behavior over time.

 

Maybe it would also stop me from feeling injured and seethe every time, accumulating anger as the days, weeks, and months pass.

 

I'm looking for a solution to the problem. While I agree that the affair gives me a weak leg to stand on - I can guarantee that W would never agree to it unless we were in a crisis like this (and she still hasn't actually agreed). I had already suggested it before and she scoffed at the idea ..

 

I actually think this was the only way to get us to a place where we could address these issues. I could never get her attention before this.

 

 

This thread is reminding me of some sort of counselling group. H2T has come asking for advice...and he is getting it....or shall I say WAS.

 

Now, everyone is squabbling with each other about what advice is good, who is saying what properly, while he sits in the chair watching and waiting for advice that won't get attacked and torn apart. And yes, I am part of that group.

 

H2T, sorry about the wife call. You may have her attention right now. I have a question...is this all going to be worth it for you? You have stated that she was not a good wife in your opinion. Do you think she can change? I fear that any counselling will reflect on your indiscretion or betrayal rather than on any faults that you may think she...or she does... has/have.

 

I am going to suggest a book and an author. Her books tend to focus on what to do in the here and now to fix things...rather than constantly dwelling on "talking out the feelings and anger" which may or may not help. There is a book called Divorce Busting by Michele Weiner Davis. She has also written other books. One is The Sex Starved Marriage. And I am reading another by her called Change Your Life and Everyone in It (also called Fire Your Shrink). Since I have seen some of these principles work, I can wholeheartedly recommend her. She has a website as well...truthfully, not near as helpful or as enjoyable...or as entertaining...as this one.

 

Please don't expect much sympathy here. Of course, I think you have THAT much figured out by now. But I am certain you will find answers and direction here...if you wade through the inner discussions.

[JamesM]

Having now read all of the posts done while I was typing, one more comment.

 

a4a, I think you said it well. You had some very good points. Even though you and I tend to disagree in other areas , I have to say I wholeheartedly agree with this post.

[silktricks]

Will it be all worth it? Maybe yes. It's worth a try. I'm hoping that maybe there are things I can change to allow her behavior not to make me feel so crappy about being married to her.

 

For example - I may have been able to say "Maybe you're right, honey. I did extensive research on the health insurance but you're good with numbers - maybe you can find something that'll work better .." and smiled and left it at that. Maybe if I do that every time, she'll beat me up less over time. Just maybe.

 

Maybe if she complains about the collard greens - I could have just said "Funny - that's what the guy at the supermarket said too" and then just winked at her. Maybe that would cause her to stop that behavior over time.

 

Maybe it would also stop me from feeling injured and seethe every time, accumulating anger as the days, weeks, and months pass.

 

I'm looking for a solution to the problem. While I agree that the affair gives me a weak leg to stand on - I can guarantee that W would never agree to it unless we were in a crisis like this (and she still hasn't actually agreed). I had already suggested it before and she scoffed at the idea ..

 

I actually think this was the only way to get us to a place where we could address these issues. I could never get her attention before this.

 

Do you really want to play those kind of games to get her to treat you right? Why not instead simply say "When you say "xxxxxxx" I feel bad. I then feel that you don't love me."

[whichwayisup]

Both of you have to try to remember why you fell inlove with eachother. And why you got married, had kids, started a life together.

 

Hopefully counselling will get you back there and be able to look forward, to learn to communicate, listen and understand eachother.

[Hard2Think]

Do you really want to play those kind of games to get her to treat you right? Why not instead simply say "When you say "xxxxxxx" I feel bad. I then feel that you don't love me."

 

 

I used to do just that - she eveidently didn't believe me or she didn't think it was a big deal. That being said - I do remember 3 or 4 times in our marriage, she would spontaneously decide that she was going to be a better wife all of the sudden. She would sit me down and announce to me how she knew she was less than ideal and would imrove everything. Those resolutions never lasted the day.