I'm the MM and I love my OW - now what?

[Hard2Think]

Both of you have to try to remember why you fell inlove with eachother. And why you got married, had kids, started a life together.

 

Hopefully counselling will get you back there and be able to look forward, to learn to communicate, listen and understand eachother.

 

That is very well put. I'll say that to her next time she asks why I want to fix everything ..

[norajane]

Will it be all worth it? Maybe yes. It's worth a try. I'm hoping that maybe there are things I can change to allow her behavior not to make me feel so crappy about being married to her.

 

For example - I may have been able to say "Maybe you're right, honey. I did extensive research on the health insurance but you're good with numbers - maybe you can find something that'll work better .." and smiled and left it at that. Maybe if I do that every time, she'll beat me up less over time. Just maybe.

 

Maybe if she complains about the collard greens - I could have just said "Funny - that's what the guy at the supermarket said too" and then just winked at her. Maybe that would cause her to stop that behavior over time.

 

Maybe it would also stop me from feeling injured and seethe every time, accumulating anger as the days, weeks, and months pass.

 

I'm looking for a solution to the problem. While I agree that the affair gives me a weak leg to stand on - I can guarantee that W would never agree to it unless we were in a crisis like this (and she still hasn't actually agreed). I had already suggested it before and she scoffed at the idea ..

 

I actually think this was the only way to get us to a place where we could address these issues. I could never get her attention before this.

 

H2T, I think it's really important to get to the bottom of what happened in your marriage to change things. If you and were wife were happy at one point, when did the changes start? When did she start becoming distant and angry all the time? When did she start obssessing about teaching her aerobics classes? What were you doing at the time? How did you respond to the small and larger changes? What was happening with your children at each point? She was aware that your marriage was in trouble and that she was unhappy - what was she thinking all this time? Did she expect things to continue as is forever?

 

There's a reason your marriage went south and your wife turned to those classes and objects of wealth to sustain her. You need to get some idea while in MC what went wrong before any real improvement can happen. MC will focus on your affair initially as the catalyst to get you both there, so you will need to be forthcoming about the lack of affection and attention. Be prepared to ask and listen to why your wife withdrew from you early on, and what might have made a difference before things got to this stage.

[a4a]

I am going to take a guess at why your wife reacts this way....... I have been catching myself snapping about silly things as well.... 3 days ago I found it to be my husbands fault that a water tank was leaking at one of my farms..........

 

Did he put the holes in it? Nope...... did he want the holes in it? nope...... he was trying to help me do a quick fix on it until I picked up a new one.....yet I just wanted to stab him in the head with a fork.. I do believe I called him Super McFly...

 

I could relate quite a few collard greens and water tanks stories to you.

 

I tell you what my H would go out and get my water at 11pm if I asked him or just mentioned it..... but I still might want to stab him in the head with a fork.

 

This may or may not be why your wife feels the way she does but my reason for going off the deep end over nothing with my H is the following

 

1. stressed and worried about our future finances and emotional well being

2. I don't ever feel like I do anything good enough... example he does not show one bit of excitement when I make an effort to please him.

3. He does not treat me special..... I feel like furniture.

4. He does not put effort into the R..... like carefully planning something ahead of time just for me.

 

Is there any possible way that both of you have just neglected each other to the point where you looked for "happy easy comfort" and she is just so resentful because she feels a little too little a little too late even when you do make an effort?

 

I submerge myself into my interests to escape my H..... who is a wonderful human and gorgeous man but just is clueless on the attention I need.

 

I hesitated to post this....... but wtf..... maybe it will help you..... because I do sound a tad bit like your wife.....or at least how she reacts to you.

 

have you asked her what she wants to do with her life lately.....maybe just maybe she feels neglected as well?

[JamesM]

Reread these sentences a few times...

 

I submerge myself into my interests to escape my H..... who is a wonderful human and gorgeous man but just is clueless on the attention I need.

 

have you asked her what she wants to do with her life lately.....maybe just maybe she feels neglected as well?

[a4a]

If your talking to me James..... I have told him what I need and what I want and even suggestee buying the book..... "how to date your wife"..... no use for me to keep plugging away trying to convince my H..... he just keeps telling me what he does do for me.......... hard headed super mcfly!

 

Now I am to the same point or act like H2Ts wife...... but of course the comparison may be wayyyyy off base

 

Now see I just got mad at him again and desire to fork his head.....

 

If you were not speaking to me..... ignore this post........

 

and sorry to jack your thread a tad H2T

[norajane]

Is there any possible way that both of you have just neglected each other to the point where you looked for "happy easy comfort" and she is just so resentful because she feels a little too little a little too late even when you do make an effort?

 

I submerge myself into my interests to escape my H..... who is a wonderful human and gorgeous man but just is clueless on the attention I need.

 

I hesitated to post this....... but wtf..... maybe it will help you..... because I do sound a tad bit like your wife.....or at least how she reacts to you.

 

have you asked her what she wants to do with her life lately.....maybe just maybe she feels neglected as well?

 

My impression is that it goes deeper than neglect...kicking his father out of the house when he was ill and dying, and then going on vacation at his death to leave him to deal with the funeral on his own...well, it would have to be some pretty powerful neglect to make her do that.

 

But I'm just guessing. Maybe I'm not clear on commitment, but if I'd been in his shoes, I'd have filed for divorce when she wanted his father out of the house even though on his deathbed. AND, I'd have filed for sole custody of his children. I wouldn't want them to be around a woman with so little compassion. IMO, her behavior was unsupportable.

 

Good thing for her that I'm not H2T.

[JamesM]

actually, a4a, you must have a distrust of my motives LOL. The reason I quoted your words is because I thought they were rather profound. IMHO they seem to be the possible foundation for all that has gone wrong in this marriage.

[silktricks]

NJ you've got some real points here. It does go deeper than neglect - it sounds like some really deep-seated anger. Sometimes that type of anger does come from feeling ignored, used, abandoned, unloved, etc. over a long period of time. Sometimes you do get to the point where you just plain give up.

 

H2T, you have stated that your wife needs to make some changes, and that you know you need to make them as well. Has she EVER stated to you any of the reasons that she feels unhappy. Ever told you changes that she'd like you to make - (other than the obvious one of not having affairs). I believe I read somewhere that this wasn't your first affair. Is that true? Did the attitude that you are complaining about begin before or after the first affair?

 

I'm really glad to see that you are planning on MC, I hope your W does go with you. It is important for you to hear from her own lips what the issues are that she has.

[Ladyjane14]

Whew!!!! ....This thread is EXHAUSTING!

It's all over the place. Cool read. But lacking in focus when it comes to H2T's most immediate concerns.

 

You know... just about everyone will ask for (and receive) advice from time to time. Most of us don't listen to it.

 

Humans learn best when they learn their own lessons. Sometimes that means learning them the hard way. YOU are learning to face your problems head-on, H2T. A problem within the marriage needs to be solved "within the marriage". Your wife is learning that you can't be complacent and keep a relationship going. The OW is learning that you don't 'fool around' with married people. (There's a reason for that. And I don't have sympathy for her, btw. It's her lesson to learn, and she'll be a better person eventually for knowing it. Taking the edge off it doesn't do her any favors, IMO. )

 

You've had a few revolations in some of your posts today, H2T. You're THINKING again.....

I came to some realizations yesterday about my "reasons" for the affair. My wife had indeed treated me very poorly in our marriage - but I derived an interpretation from her actions that translated to her her not loving me nor caring about me. But that was just my interpretation.

 

This is more important than you realize just now. You can't put words into your mate's mouth. You believed that your wife didn't care about you, didn't you?

 

But she went to pieces when she found out. She cried. She ranted. She probably called you a 'son of a b*tch' and told you she never wanted to see you again. All this... when it's a fairly well know fact that the opposite of love is INDIFFERENCE, not hate. If she didn't care, she wouldn't have fallen apart.

 

Your wife is a piece of work, and that's a fact. But her sin isn't necessarily a deliberate one.

 

I'm going to speak in generalizations for a minute, and hope to be forgiven for it .... but women don't understand men. I find the cliche that women are supposedly this great mystery in the eyes of men to actually be the opposite. Discounting deal-breaking behavioral defects, and only speaking in terms of the average man.... the male is the greater mystery.

 

I'll share my understanding of men with you. It's limited by my gender because I'll never BE a man. I can only observe them, so my "understanding" is a 'work-in-progress'.

But THIS is what I see...

 

Men are both simpler and more complicated than we expect them to be. They're complicated in their sexuality, able to compartmentalize baser sexual behavior with ease. Like I've said earlier... he can bang a hooker or web-cam a 'ho' and not have it mean a damn thing to him.

 

But he can't compartmentalize with his mate. His heart is engaged... and so is his sense of self-worth. He NEEDS his mate's approval, both emotionally and sexually.

 

And THIS is where women screw up. Because there's a simple enough reason for that. Man is born of woman. He is raised by women. His first and most defining memories are of his joy in pleasing women. In his most formative years, the approval of mother and teacher make him happy. When he selects his mate... his goal is to make an entire family happy.

 

A man who can't elicit his wife's approval is an UNHAPPY man. It affects him at his most fundamental levels. It's keyed into not only his sexuality, but also in his need to provide for his family's needs.... particularly his woman's needs. We're not talking about only the financial aspect, but the emotional as well. A man wants his family HAPPY, and he feels a sense of failure when he can't provide that.

 

When he feels disapproval or disdain from his most primary person, his woman... he is devastated in feelings of rejection.

 

The good news, H2T, is that you have discovered the 'miscommunication' of perception. Your wife says one thing.... you HEAR another.

 

What you're responding to is perceived disapproval. Not to say that your wife is innocent in her dealings. Like many women, she's probably treating you like a BIG TOUGH MAN. We women don't pull our verbal punches often enough.

We'd NEVER talk to another woman carelessly for fear of hurting feelings, but we routinely speak to our men carelessly. In truth, our man's emotions are often more delicate than our own. I think it depends alot on who the woman is in relationship to the man. If a man NEEDS approval because he's dealing with his mate, he just can't take verbal callousness.

 

Sexual rejection works the same way. A single guy, whose heart isn't on the line can get 'shot down' 10 times a month. A married guy who's is invested gets his feelings hurt damn near every time.

 

You wondered earlier 'why' you did what you did, and 'why' your feelings felt so real "at the time". My theory is that it's because you craved the approval you were lacking at home. I don't think you meant to USE anyone. I'm sure it probably felt very real and natural to you at the time to seek that approval elsewhere.

 

But you have a HUGE challenge ahead of you and that's for sure. Your wife will have to wrap her mind around a whole new way of thinking. She's going to have to SEE you as emotionally vulnerable to her in a way that she will never really be able to understand. She can't feel a man's viewpoint. She's a woman.

 

And I'll be honest. The idea that you lied to her in EVERY interaction since you stepped out on her is going to haunt her. If you were cheating at Christmas... your gift to her was a LIE. If you were cheating on your anniversary... the sex you had that night was a LIE. That's what she'll be feeling.

 

What's worse is the STD factor. A partner who has unprotected sex outside of the monogamous relationship doesn't CARE if you live or die anymore. He doesn't CARE that your babies might end up as orphans.

THAT's the uphill fight you're looking at. That's what a BS is feeling.

 

As you read through Dazed's thread, you'll understand more when you 'walk a mile in his shoes', when you feel his pain and sense of betrayal. If it was your wife who "didn't care if you lived or died", how would YOU feel?

 

You've got ALOT on your plate H2T. I've noticed that a4a and WWIU and JameM are giving you their best. Use it. Listen to them. It's a gift.... a random act of kindness. Learn all you can and roll the dice.

[whichwayisup]

LJ, this has to be your best post yet!

 

Not only is this going to help H2T, but anybody else reading it. Myself included.

 

Thanks, and you're the best!

[BenThereDunThat]

Standing in awe of LJ....excellent post. Truly.

[JamesM]

Okay, let's not get sidetracked, but LJ, I am impressed by the wisdom given. I remember my time of need and I remember always looking forward to what you would tell me...I knew I would have something to think about that would be applicable to my situation.

 

H2T, please reread LJ's post a few times.

[Hard2Think]

This is awesome. Very awesome. I'm also so grateful that you took the time to post all of this. Thank you so much.

 

It also gave me renewed strength when my wife called me just a few minutes ago after I read this post. She's now at the point where she's willing to listen to some hint of the "other side" of the issue. But not too much.

 

The part about my wife coming to grips with the hazards of complacency is the part that gives me the most hope. Because that's really ultimately what I want. I want her to do something to make this work also - and I think that's only possible if she sees that problem. If she can't and it's all my fault - then we're doomed.

 

I told my wife that I only want her and I always wanted just her - it's just that I felt that I couldn't have her for all this time. And I do want her, in fact I want US back because there was something there a long time ago that made us happy to be with each other. I told her that I'm 100% positive that we can get there .. if she wants to also.

 

Her call just now was a bit less harsh - but she's still very hurt, that I can see. It'll be awhile.

 

Thanks again for your post. It helped me just now more than you know.

 

Whew!!!! ....This thread is EXHAUSTING!

It's all over the place. Cool read. But lacking in focus when it comes to H2T's most immediate concerns.

 

You know... just about everyone will ask for (and receive) advice from time to time. Most of us don't listen to it.

 

Humans learn best when they learn their own lessons. Sometimes that means learning them the hard way. YOU are learning to face your problems head-on, H2T. A problem within the marriage needs to be solved "within the marriage". Your wife is learning that you can't be complacent and keep a relationship going. The OW is learning that you don't 'fool around' with married people. (There's a reason for that. And I don't have sympathy for her, btw. It's her lesson to learn, and she'll be a better person eventually for knowing it. Taking the edge off it doesn't do her any favors, IMO. )

 

You've had a few revolations in some of your posts today, H2T. You're THINKING again.....

 

 

This is more important than you realize just now. You can't put words into your mate's mouth. You believed that your wife didn't care about you, didn't you?

 

But she went to pieces when she found out. She cried. She ranted. She probably called you a 'son of a b*tch' and told you she never wanted to see you again. All this... when it's a fairly well know fact that the opposite of love is INDIFFERENCE, not hate. If she didn't care, she wouldn't have fallen apart.

 

Your wife is a piece of work, and that's a fact. But her sin isn't necessarily a deliberate one.

 

I'm going to speak in generalizations for a minute, and hope to be forgiven for it .... but women don't understand men. I find the cliche that women are supposedly this great mystery in the eyes of men to actually be the opposite. Discounting deal-breaking behavioral defects, and only speaking in terms of the average man.... the male is the greater mystery.

 

I'll share my understanding of men with you. It's limited by my gender because I'll never BE a man. I can only observe them, so my "understanding" is a 'work-in-progress'.

But THIS is what I see...

 

Men are both simpler and more complicated than we expect them to be. They're complicated in their sexuality, able to compartmentalize baser sexual behavior with ease. Like I've said earlier... he can bang a hooker or web-cam a 'ho' and not have it mean a damn thing to him.

 

But he can't compartmentalize with his mate. His heart is engaged... and so is his sense of self-worth. He NEEDS his mate's approval, both emotionally and sexually.

 

And THIS is where women screw up. Because there's a simple enough reason for that. Man is born of woman. He is raised by women. His first and most defining memories are of his joy in pleasing women. In his most formative years, the approval of mother and teacher make him happy. When he selects his mate... his goal is to make an entire family happy.

 

A man who can't elicit his wife's approval is an UNHAPPY man. It affects him at his most fundamental levels. It's keyed into not only his sexuality, but also in his need to provide for his family's needs.... particularly his woman's needs. We're not talking about only the financial aspect, but the emotional as well. A man wants his family HAPPY, and he feels a sense of failure when he can't provide that.

 

When he feels disapproval or disdain from his most primary person, his woman... he is devastated in feelings of rejection.

 

The good news, H2T, is that you have discovered the 'miscommunication' of perception. Your wife says one thing.... you HEAR another.

 

What you're responding to is perceived disapproval. Not to say that your wife is innocent in her dealings. Like many women, she's probably treating you like a BIG TOUGH MAN. We women don't pull our verbal punches often enough.

We'd NEVER talk to another woman carelessly for fear of hurting feelings, but we routinely speak to our men carelessly. In truth, our man's emotions are often more delicate than our own. I think it depends alot on who the woman is in relationship to the man. If a man NEEDS approval because he's dealing with his mate, he just can't take verbal callousness.

 

Sexual rejection works the same way. A single guy, whose heart isn't on the line can get 'shot down' 10 times a month. A married guy who's is invested gets his feelings hurt damn near every time.

 

You wondered earlier 'why' you did what you did, and 'why' your feelings felt so real "at the time". My theory is that it's because you craved the approval you were lacking at home. I don't think you meant to USE anyone. I'm sure it probably felt very real and natural to you at the time to seek that approval elsewhere.

 

But you have a HUGE challenge ahead of you and that's for sure. Your wife will have to wrap her mind around a whole new way of thinking. She's going to have to SEE you as emotionally vulnerable to her in a way that she will never really be able to understand. She can't feel a man's viewpoint. She's a woman.

 

And I'll be honest. The idea that you lied to her in EVERY interaction since you stepped out on her is going to haunt her. If you were cheating at Christmas... your gift to her was a LIE. If you were cheating on your anniversary... the sex you had that night was a LIE. That's what she'll be feeling.

 

What's worse is the STD factor. A partner who has unprotected sex outside of the monogamous relationship doesn't CARE if you live or die anymore. He doesn't CARE that your babies might end up as orphans.

THAT's the uphill fight you're looking at. That's what a BS is feeling.

 

As you read through Dazed's thread, you'll understand more when you 'walk a mile in his shoes', when you feel his pain and sense of betrayal. If it was your wife who "didn't care if you lived or died", how would YOU feel?

 

You've got ALOT on your plate H2T. I've noticed that a4a and WWIU and JameM are giving you their best. Use it. Listen to them. It's a gift.... a random act of kindness. Learn all you can and roll the dice.

[crazy_grl]

I have my doubts about how "psycho" the OW is. H2T, did you even speak to her when she came over?

 

I also think not telling the OW that you're through with her and working it out with the W is just a way to string her along. Sure, you say now that she's crazy and want nothing to do with her, but remember what you said about your wife. One day she was a cold, heartless unloving b*tch and the very next day you missed her and wanted to work it out.

 

At first I thought you really had a revelation about loving your wife, but right now I'm starting to think that you're just twisting things to fit what's convenient like you did when you disliked your W and "loved" the OW.

 

I think not telling the OW that it's over gives you the freedom to run back to her later and come up with any concocted nonesense to continue to string her along. You could tell her the W called the police and wouldn't let you see her, etc. And if she was still hung up on you, she might believe it. I think you need to tell OW it's over in a respectful manner that leaves her with her dignity but makes it clear that you don't love her and want to be with your wife. You need to give her the closure to move on so that even if you falter and try to resume the A, she won't be receptive. She also won't be as likely to try to make random contact and interfere in repairing your M because she thinks you still love her.

 

H2T, I do think that you believe you'll never see the OW again, but I think you're ignoring your own weaknesses and that's going to come back to bite you in the *ss later.

 

You also sound pretty self-absorbed. When you were talking about reflecting on your marriage problems, you've only mentioned your wife's problems. I know when I reflect on a problem, I try to think about what I may have done to cause a person to react in that way. That's what I was expecting to read from you, but you didn't even address your own behavior. Have you given any thought to what you might have done that made her feel like you didn't love her?

[Hard2Think]

I did reflect on my problems as well .. I mentioned it earlier. My interpretations of her actions. But I guess what I'm saying is - affair or no affair, I was very unhappy in the marriage. Her forgiving me is not going to be enough to keep us together - and that's a challenge we'll have moving forward if we ever do get that far ..

 

I have my doubts about how "psycho" the OW is. H2T, did you even speak to her when she came over?

 

I also think not telling the OW that you're through with her and working it out with the W is just a way to string her along. Sure, you say now that she's crazy and want nothing to do with her, but remember what you said about your wife. One day she was a cold, heartless unloving b*tch and the very next day you missed her and wanted to work it out.

 

At first I thought you really had a revelation about loving your wife, but right now I'm starting to think that you're just twisting things to fit what's convenient like you did when you disliked your W and "loved" the OW.

 

I think not telling the OW that it's over gives you the freedom to run back to her later and come up with any concocted nonesense to continue to string her along. You could tell her the W called the police and wouldn't let you see her, etc. And if she was still hung up on you, she might believe it. I think you need to tell OW it's over in a respectful manner that leaves her with her dignity but makes it clear that you don't love her and want to be with your wife. You need to give her the closure to move on so that even if you falter and try to resume the A, she won't be receptive. She also won't be as likely to try to make random contact and interfere in repairing your M because she thinks you still love her.

 

H2T, I do think that you believe you'll never see the OW again, but I think you're ignoring your own weaknesses and that's going to come back to bite you in the *ss later.

 

You also sound pretty self-absorbed. When you were talking about reflecting on your marriage problems, you've only mentioned your wife's problems. I know when I reflect on a problem, I try to think about what I may have done to cause a person to react in that way. That's what I was expecting to read from you, but you didn't even address your own behavior. Have you given any thought to what you might have done that made her feel like you didn't love her?

[whichwayisup]

CG, have you read all his previous posts and the ones today?

 

Plus, with amazing advice from LJ, and some deep thinking by H2T, maybe it's time to focus on him and his wife and not keep dragging the OW in right now. (And yes, I'm aware that this thread was born because of the OW, but right now his focus MUST be on his wife, not the OW. He's already said many times that he has NO interest in seeing or talking to the OW ever again. It's over.) Sorry, and I don't mean to offend anybody who is an OW. I just feel right now that he's turning a corner and what's done is done - He has to look forward and focus on his wife, rebuilding their love and trust again - To stay a family.

[Ladyjane14]

I'm glad if my post helped you out, H2T. I had to learn all that stuff "the hard way" just like everybody else.

 

And thanks for the kudos, WWIU, BTDT, and JamesM. You guys are awesome.

[Hard2Think]

Well it's 9:30 and she hasn't shown up at the door .. I'm breathing easier now.

[UnknowingOW]

H2T, I do need to apologize for being so aggressive. You're post hit a nerve with me. And I acted on that issue. That was not your problem but mine.

 

I do hope you take what LJ said. She has some wisdom in her words. Good luck on your counseling and hopefully things will find a better ground soon for you both.

 

Marriage is never an easy road. People get lost in the everyday and forget why they became married in the first place. I am a believer of the couple/marriage...if that makes sense. What I mean is this. Once you are married, the dating, the intimacy, the sharing, the issues all are part of the life of the marriage.

 

It's taking time for each other no matter what else is going on because they are the most important person in your life. And when you feel those lines of communication failing you have to be the one to step up to the plate and give it 100% of your focus, and also bring their focus back to you...and the relationship. It isn't easy. And there will be huges fights along the way. But I believe it is the only way for people to survive and make it in the long-run.

 

Stay focused...don't lose your sight right now for you or your wife.

[crazy_grl]

I did reflect on my problems as well .. I mentioned it earlier. My interpretations of her actions.

 

I've read every one of your posts, and just skimmed over the thread again, because I thought I must be missing something. I still didn't find it. The closest thing I saw to addressing your own issues was talking about how you reacted/how you interpretted your W's actions/things you did or could have done in response to your W.

 

Most of your focus seems to be on what your wife did wrong and how to change your actions so that she'll make you feel better. Not much focus on how you can treat her simply so that she'll feel better.

 

There was not a single post where you reflected on what you did to make things go wrong in the first place. Did she act like this before you married her? If not, then you should think about what you might have done to provoke the change.

[crazy_grl]

CG, have you read all his previous posts and the ones today?

 

Yes, I have.

 

Plus, with amazing advice from LJ, and some deep thinking by H2T, maybe it's time to focus on him and his wife and not keep dragging the OW in right now.

 

I think right now is the perfect time to address the OW. If that doesn't happen, I fear that she'll become an issue later and may destroy the progress H2T and his W have made at that point.

 

(And yes, I'm aware that this thread was born because of the OW, but right now his focus MUST be on his wife, not the OW. He's already said many times that he has NO interest in seeing or talking to the OW ever again. It's over.)

 

I know what he's said. I just don't believe that it's going to be lasting. I think H2T is good at lying to himself about his motivations, and he didn't reasonably explain to the OW that it was over in order to leave the door open. I think it would be wiser to deal with the OW like an adult and close that door.

 

Sorry, and I don't mean to offend anybody who is an OW. I just feel right now that he's turning a corner and what's done is done - He has to look forward and focus on his wife, rebuilding their love and trust again - To stay a family.

 

I happen to disagree with you completely. In most cases, I would agree: NC with the OW and spend all energy focusing on the marriage; the OW deserves nothing.

 

Of course, after reading H2T's story, I may have to re-evaluate that stance a bit. I knew from reading others' stories how good MM were at lying and manipulating their OW, but WOW I had no idea! Look at home many people he had believing that he loved his OW and was ready to leave the W for her. I even believed he would do it (though I thought it would be a horrible mistake). Isn't there a saying about it being easiest to lie once you've convinced yourself the lie is truth? Maybe there's not a saying, but it's true. As I said before, I think H2T is very good at lying to himself, and I think he's still doing it.

 

WWIU, you clearly have one impression of H2T and the OW, but I have a completely different impression. I think he's putting on a very good act at being a reformed cheater who just realized he's in love with his wife and wants to save the marriage, and I think he believes it too. But I think the reason he wants to get back together with his W is something entirely different, probably something he doesn't want to admit to himself, and if he doesn't confront it, he'll end up right back where he started. I admit I could be wrong, but that's the impression I get.

 

(Just an FYI, my impression is not based on the fact that I'm an OW personalizing things about my MM onto H2T. I am not nor have I ever been an OW.)

[Guest]

Yes, I am an OW....but.....if she was acting in good faith.....as in any relationship...she does deserve an explaination. If they were both single, there would be some kind of closure. She deserves a talk with her boyfriend. Even if it is a short one sided version. He needs to e-mail, call, text, something....He can not leave it at this. If this was my MM I would be pushed over the edge also. She believed, by his words, that they would be together. BE A MAN! Tell her what the new facts are!

 

FORGET FOR A MOMENT THAT THIS IS AN AFFAIR!! IF THIS WAS JUST A SINGLE MAN AND A SINGLE WOMAN, THERE WOULD BE A CONVERSATION AS TO WHY THE RELATIONSHIP WAS OVER! YOU OWE HER THAT MUCH!!!

[Hard2Think]

No apology is necessary .. and thank you for your kind words. I agree with you on the couple/marriage thing 100%. My hope is that we get there. The times when we we were the happiest is when we were younger, poorer, and had less "things" to distract us from the enjoyment of being with each other. I know we can get there again if she's willing.

 

H2T, I do need to apologize for being so aggressive. You're post hit a nerve with me. And I acted on that issue. That was not your problem but mine.

 

I do hope you take what LJ said. She has some wisdom in her words. Good luck on your counseling and hopefully things will find a better ground soon for you both.

 

Marriage is never an easy road. People get lost in the everyday and forget why they became married in the first place. I am a believer of the couple/marriage...if that makes sense. What I mean is this. Once you are married, the dating, the intimacy, the sharing, the issues all are part of the life of the marriage.

 

It's taking time for each other no matter what else is going on because they are the most important person in your life. And when you feel those lines of communication failing you have to be the one to step up to the plate and give it 100% of your focus, and also bring their focus back to you...and the relationship. It isn't easy. And there will be huges fights along the way. But I believe it is the only way for people to survive and make it in the long-run.

 

Stay focused...don't lose your sight right now for you or your wife.

[newbby]

perhaps crazy grls pov will be taken more seriously since she is not/has not been an ow. it is good that ows perspective is addressed here. and there are three people who went wrong here, not just one, one of those is being kindly supported on here, he is being advised to kindly support another one, yet the last one, well she should have known better, has got what she deserves, should be treated as a criminal, does not deserve an apology or even the truth. people need to seriously take a look at these attitudes, and how unfair they are. yeah the ow is a big girl, so is the wife, so is h2t ! no one sin is greater than another, but the ONLY important thing is to get the marriage repaired. the affair happened, and there is another woman involved already, like it or not, and that other woman has been driven to desperation, all she actually requires is a simple truth and apology. and for those of you who mentioned the importance of the children, dont forget please that the ow also has a child, a child who at this point in time has an emotionally distraught mother who is having legal action taken against her rather than being treated with respect and maturity. or does ow's child not count either?

[Hard2Think]

No legal action is being taken against her. She was just warned to stay away. I can't have her think that she can just show up at my home and harass me anytime she wants. This would be the case even if I was single and she was not an OW.

 

I would have treated her in a completely different manner had she not done this. She could have called me and even asked to meet somewhere where we cold talk. I would have gone. But what she did was over the top. If you ever have it happen to you, you'll know exactly what I mean.

 

perhaps crazy grls pov will be taken more seriously since she is not/has not been an ow. it is good that ows perspective is addressed here. and there are three people who went wrong here, not just one, one of those is being kindly supported on here, he is being advised to kindly support another one, yet the last one, well she should have known better, has got what she deserves, should be treated as a criminal, does not deserve an apology or even the truth. people need to seriously take a look at these attitudes, and how unfair they are. yeah the ow is a big girl, so is the wife, so is h2t ! no one sin is greater than another, but the ONLY important thing is to get the marriage repaired. the affair happened, and there is another woman involved already, like it or not, and that other woman has been driven to desperation, all she actually requires is a simple truth and apology. and for those of you who mentioned the importance of the children, dont forget please that the ow also has a child, a child who at this point in time has an emotionally distraught mother who is having legal action taken against her rather than being treated with respect and maturity. or does ow's child not count either?