I'm the MM and I love my OW - now what?

[Mz. Pixie]

I let someone else into my life - but where the hell was she? She was unavailable to me. Sorry if that seems self-serving an narcissistic or whatever label anyone chooses to place on that. But I did my part in this marriage. I went over and above in taking care of all her needs - emotional and physical and material. In return I got nothing. And I accepted that.

 

I realize that I let myself stay with a selfish woman.

 

Careful there- H2T- you're close to justification with these kind of statements. I think you still do feel a bit justified in your actions. I did for a long time but listen carefully- no matter what she has done- it didn't give you the right to do what you did.

 

Really let that sink in for a minute.

 

Breathe.

 

Ok- I realize that you're hurt for what she did, but right now you can't focus on that. Because if you want to save this marriage (and I'm not sure you do) then you're going to have to focus on her pain and making ammends to her.

 

It's not time for her to make ammends to you yet. That will come during MC if you guys stay with it.

 

She's not the one concerned right now with saving the marriage- it's you.

 

She sounds like the kind of woman who is very much about image. She wants her friends to think highly of her. She's feeling humiliated by your actions and she's having to face the fact that her husband has screwed around on her.

 

She is full of being the victim right now- wouldn't you be if the sitch was reversed?? She needs time to settle in to what you did and then find out the reasons why. It's quick for you to say "Yeah, so I messed around- now how can we fix what made me cheat in the first place?" Instead of focusing on the fact that you cheated.

 

I'm interested in if she's such a selfish shrew then why do you love her?? If she's abusive to you then why do you love her??

 

You have to do the work now until she's healed. If you don't have it in you then cut and bail now- because her recovery period may not function on your time level.

 

I'm not bashing ya- because to be honest- I didn't even try to work it out after my affair. I didn't feel it was worth it, but in looking back I wish I could have said I tried for the sake of my kids, if only that.

[a4a]

 

Yeah , a4a, get mad. I wish I had done so before I did the A. Maybe I'd be in the doghouse - but at least she wouldn't have the A to use as an A-bomb (get it? A-bomb, )

 

A-bomb

 

you know I kinda think I am where you were when you started your A.

[Ladyjane14]

From what I have read here, your marriage has never had good communication. So I ask how could you possibly know what it is that your wife has needed (more EN than physical or material) throughout your marriage? If communication has never been very strong in your marriage, you may be surprised that she needed something you never had a clue about. I am not trying to beat you or kick you in the pants. Just wanted to point it something I consistantly see in your posts is your assertion that you are/have been/always met her needs. I have to wonder if she would agree, considering she stopped meeting your needs as well. Usually when both partner quit caring for the others needs, then no one is getting their ENs met.

 

I think I am making a mess of this.

 

I hope Ladyjane can pick up the ball and run with it on this, because she is best on this subject. IMHO anyway...

 

Thanks for saying that, Diva... but you already beat me to the punch and explained it perfectly.

 

You're just at the beginning of the process H2T. Relax a little. Rome wasn't built in a day, right. Diva's absolutely correct. You might think you've got a full and working knowledge of your partner's ENs... but once you roll up your sleeves and get to work, you might find yourself surprised.

 

You know my husband has an EN for me to FEED HIM.

When I make him a sandwich, or pack his lunch, or remember his favorite little snack when I shop... he can feel my love in a demonstrative way. Hell, I didn't know it was an EN. I'd been married to him for over 20 years by the time I figured it out. I just thought he was LAZY!

 

Most of us fulfill our own needs as independant people. But when we get involved in a relationship, there are things we need from our partner that make us feel loved and secure and content to stay together with that other person.

 

You and your wife haven't communicated well enough to really understand what the other person needs. You didn't make your wife happy, because you weren't giving her what she REALLY needed from you... and vice versa.

 

You're super-peeved today because you feel like you've put all this effort into the relationship and didn't get anything out of it. But if you're putting in the WRONG effort, you can't get the results you want.

 

Your wife didn't mislead you about her ENs. She probably hasn't got any more clue than you do about what they really are. My husband isn't aware that he has an EN to be nurtured with food. I know it. But that's because I happened to go looking for that knowledge.

 

Your can read a copy of The Five Love Languages and/or His Needs / Her Needs to get you started. You can also get a questionairre over at marriagebuilders. You might actually be surprised at some of your own ENs once you start identifying them. It's imperative that you do though, because contentment within the marriage is dependant upon the fulfillment of ENs.

 

Remember.... it's not your wife's job to read your mind, no more than it is your job to read hers. Good communications are essential to getting the information to your partner. You may sometimes feel like you've communicated your feelings... but you're not always getting through. A very simple tool, Listen, Rephrase, Repeat can help you clear up some of the misunderstandings.

 

Ultimately, it's YOUR responsibility to inform your partner of your ENs. It was your responsibility all along, and if you've avoided conflict within the marriage... you've got to OWN that. It was your job to tell her what you needed. And whatever the reason... she's still walking around clueless.

 

One other thing.... I think it'll help alot if you'll STOP feeling your wife's feelings with her. You're absorbing her emotions. It's okay to let her go through whatever she's going through. You can't control that anyway. Right now, she gets angry, then you get anxious. Then your anxiety gives way to anger, and you end up licking your previous wounds.

 

You can stop that whole cycle by making a deliberate effort to NOT react to her emotions. Reaction naturally follows action, right? But I think it might be healthy for you right now to BLOCK your reaction and maybe substitute a more wholesome action. A mantra or meditation, a conscious deep-breathing exercise, whatever you choose... just something you can use to remind you to NOT absorb emotions other than your own.

 

Have you talked to your doctor about depression and anxiety, btw.? I can't remember.

You might need a little help in stablizing your moods as you go through this very STRESSFUL time in your life. The BS isn't the only one riding the emotional rollercoaster after infidelity. Don't be afraid to get some help if you need it.

[newbby]

You can stop that whole cycle by making a deliberate effort to NOT react to her emotions. Reaction naturally follows action, right? But I think it might be healthy for you right now to BLOCK your reaction and maybe substitute a more wholesome action. A mantra or meditation, a conscious deep-breathing exercise, whatever you choose... just something you can use to remind you to NOT absorb emotions other than your own.

 

 

this is excellent advice, for everyone in any relationship.

[Ladyjane14]

IThe funny thing is that last night, she accused me of not being forceful enough in telling her. So I asked her what the hell she was talking about. I reminded her of how many times I mentioned it and how she blew it off.

 

So she said that I should have told her that I was just about to screw another woman before I did. Because THEN she would have taken it seriously. I was astounded. So I asked her why it couldn't have been enough to just take what I told her previously at face value - rather than blaming me for not waiting until the night before I screw the OW. What a crock.

 

 

p.s. Your wife is RIGHT. You should have been more forceful.

 

I know EXACTLY what you're talking about though. You think my husband didn't tell me 42 times a week what he wanted from me? Hell yes he did.

 

Trouble was.... I couldn't HEAR him. I can't hear him when he's angry or sarcastic. He always says more than what he means, so then I don't give credence to anything he's said previous. All I hear is bitching and nagging.

 

And even on occasions when he managed to communicate perfectly, I was still focused on my own resentments to the extent that I was unable to truly focus on his.... still not listening. It's an art to separate the wheat from the chaff. I've found that out the hard way. But it's worth the effort.

 

Anyway... your wife was right. You should have done whatever it took to get through to her. Even if that meant packing a bag and letting her watch out the picture window to see your tail-lights going down the road.

[Hard2Think]

I'm sorry - I love everything you've said thus far. You've been a great help always. But I don't buy this one - not for a second.

 

I was in no way sarcastic to her when I told her what I was missing. And I wasn't missing anything as esoteric as what your husband wanted. I don't even see how we got to the point where I had to beg her to be affectionate and loving towards me. The message was as clear as can be and so easy to address. To blame me for not saying it this way or that way is beyond my comprehension. Maybe you all see it better than I do. But I just don't.

 

She heard me and chose not to do anything about it. That was her decision, not mine.

 

I'll go back to my vegetarian example. You have a vegetarian whom you haven't fed for a week and he tells you he's hungry and you ignore him. Don't be too hard on him if he resorts to eating a hot dog.

 

Everyone will come down on him and say "How could you??" and he'll reply that he hadn't had so much as a tofu sandwich no matter how much he tried to beg. And the response he'll get is "Oh .. you're just trying to justify eating meat, you louse!!"

 

Did he do the wrong this? Should he be all remorseful and self-loathing? Maybe he will be, but I'd be the last one to blame the guy.

 

Maybe I'm just angry today. I really should stay clear of the wife today somehow.

 

p.s. Your wife is RIGHT. You should have been more forceful.

 

I know EXACTLY what you're talking about though. You think my husband didn't tell me 42 times a week what he wanted from me? Hell yes he did.

 

Trouble was.... I couldn't HEAR him. I can't hear him when he's angry or sarcastic. He always says more than what he means, so then I don't give credence to anything he's said previous. All I hear is bitching and nagging.

 

And even on occasions when he managed to communicate perfectly, I was still focused on my own resentments to the extent that I was unable to truly focus on his.... still not listening. It's an art to separate the wheat from the chaff. I've found that out the hard way. But it's worth the effort.

 

Anyway... your wife was right. You should have done whatever it took to get through to her. Even if that meant packing a bag and letting her watch out the picture window to see your tail-lights going down the road.

[whichwayisup]

Let her know that you love her and have no intention of leaving the marriage, but if things are going to get solved you two MUST be able to speak of your anger...And not worry that because she says 'this' or you say 'that', it will ruin the progess of fixing things...

 

It's healthy to air it all out. You've got years of resentment built up in you, sooner or later that has to come out and she has to deal with it. Own up to her mistakes that led the marriage to the state was in before you cheated. And, you need to admit your part in it, but shoulder the blame for going outside of the marriage...

 

Two wrongs don't make a right, and both of you now are drained, emotional and angry. It will be a rollercoaster ride for a while, so get used to it... But, it could go easier on both of you as long as you know the outcome will be the pot of gold at the end...Meaning a better marriage so you both can be happy.

[Hard2Think]

Tell her I have no intention of leaving ..? She tells me yesterday for the umpteenth time "What makes you think I should stay with .. you?"

 

I was able to take that crap up until now. But not today, unfortunately. She wants to go? Let her go!

 

Let her know that you love her and have no intention of leaving the marriage, but if things are going to get solved you two MUST be able to speak of your anger...And not worry that because she says 'this' or you say 'that', it will ruin the progess of fixing things...

 

It's healthy to air it all out. You've got years of resentment built up in you, sooner or later that has to come out and she has to deal with it. Own up to her mistakes that led the marriage to the state was in before you cheated. And, you need to admit your part in it, but shoulder the blame for going outside of the marriage...

 

Two wrongs don't make a right, and both of you now are drained, emotional and angry. It will be a rollercoaster ride for a while, so get used to it... But, it could go easier on both of you as long as you know the outcome will be the pot of gold at the end...Meaning a better marriage so you both can be happy.

[Ladyjane14]

I wish I could explain it better.

 

It's sometimes difficult for people to make this connection. It's about personal responsibility really. Ultimately, I am responsible for my own happiness. If my spouse is making me unhappy, it's MY happiness that's at stake... therefore MY responsibility to rectify the situation. I can't blame HIM if I'm not happy. I have choices I can utilize... up to and including the choice to leave the relationship.

 

To my husband's credit... he was telling me what he needed, but I wasn't listening. I wasn't being responsible for the promises that I'd made in my vows of marriage. I let him down, and I see that in hindsight. That's on me. But he still didn't have a right to seek outside the marriage.

 

Anyway, I'm not a stupid woman. So, why was it that it took me TWO DECADES to open my ears???

 

I think in part it's because no matter how hard we try not to be... we're ALL looking at things through our own lens. It's colored by our own expectations and our own resentments. The view is distorted. We can't really SEE the other guy's POV, because our perspective is superimposed over it.

 

We see this in the lop-sided libido threads all the time. I've lived it myself. The one person keeps saying the same thing over and over and over again to his/her partner. But the partner doesn't LISTEN. Bottom line though... is that BOTH people are WRONG. They each have a responsibility to communicate WITHOUT FAIL their needs to the other person, and they each have a responsibility to LISTEN.

 

I get it. I understand what you're saying, truly I do. But as you've seen... when you give up the effort of trying to communicate your needs, it's GAME OVER. You should NOT have sought outside the marriage. It's never okay to cheat. You ALWAYS had the option of leaving the marriage instead.

 

You have to really wrap your mind around this. Even if your marriage doesn't survive, you need to OWN your mistake. Otherwise, you'll carry it like an albatross wrapped around your neck for the rest of your life. Once you "own" it, you can begin the process of forgiving yourself and then eventually leave it behind you.

[Ladyjane14]

Tell her I have no intention of leaving ..? She tells me yesterday for the umpteenth time "What makes you think I should stay with .. you?"

 

I was able to take that crap up until now. But not today, unfortunately. She wants to go? Let her go!

 

p.s. I still think it's good that she's verbalizing her doubts aloud with you.

 

To be honest, I have to tell you that if I was in her position... I'd most definitely leave. I would never have tolerated a physical affair from my husband. If he had experienced any actual sexual contact with another woman, I'd have divorced him without so much as a backwards glance and never spoken another civil word to him. I wouldn't have bothered discussing it with him first either.

[Hard2Think]

Interesting .. do I detect a hint of pride at work here ..?

 

p.s. I still think it's good that she's verbalizing her doubts aloud with you.

 

To be honest, I have to tell you that if I was in her position... I'd most definitely leave. I would never have tolerated a physical affair from my husband. If he had experienced any actual sexual contact with another woman, I'd have divorced him without so much as a backwards glance and never spoken another civil word to him. I wouldn't have bothered discussing it with him first either.

[Ladyjane14]

Interesting .. do I detect a hint of pride at work here ..?

 

Why is it that I think it's a good thing that your wife is verbalizing? Or why is it that I wouldn't forgive a physical infidelity?

[Hard2Think]

I meant the forgiving part ..

 

Why is it that I think it's a good thing that your wife is verbalizing? Or why is it that I wouldn't forgive a physical infidelity?

[Ladyjane14]

There are several reasons really. The first of which is that if it comes to the point where my husband is willing to risk my very life on the strength of a condom.... I don't really want him anymore. AIDS is real. HepC is real. The idea that he would gambol with my life isn't something I'd be able to overcome.

 

Also... I'm kind of 'old school'. I took my vows of fidelity seriously and I've spent over half of my life upholding them. It hasn't always been easy to do that. And I feel like I DESERVE a man who has the same convictions and is willing to go the same distance. I've invested all the good years of my life with him. I deserve honesty and fidelity, and I won't settle for less.

 

Finally, once the vows are broken, I feel like the CONTRACT itself is broken. The minute his pants come off for some other woman, he will have voided my contract.

 

Like I said... I'm "old school".

[Hard2Think]

I love you LJ, but I'm afraid you don't understand at all. The language you use is full of pride.

 

I can understand this position if you knew you had done your part, so to speak. As hypocritical as it must sound - I'd be far more angry if my wife had an affair than I think she should be at me. I say this because I never deprived her of love, sex, and affection - even if we were fighting. I've sacrificed much for her and I was glad to do it because I love her. If she has an A under those circumstances - then I may feel as you do . But if this is about sandwiches - it's a whole other story.

 

But if you left your husband feeling like some loser who deserves only the scraps you're willing to give him. If you disappeared in his times of need. If your actions showed disdain and spite - then this position is nothing short of self-righteous. And you may leave under the guise of his having broken this sacred trust you speak of .. but that's just, again, a self-righteous and all too easy position to take because you refuse to acknowledge that you failed to hold your end of the vows as well.

 

I apologize if this sounds in any way harsh. It's not because I do have great respect and gratitude towards you. I'm very interested in your POV, and as such - I hope you understand why I engage you like this ..

 

There are several reasons really. The first of which is that if it comes to the point where my husband is willing to risk my very life on the strength of a condom.... I don't really want him anymore. AIDS is real. HepC is real. The idea that he would gambol with my life isn't something I'd be able to overcome.

 

Also... I'm kind of 'old school'. I took my vows of fidelity seriously and I've spent over half of my life upholding them. It hasn't always been easy to do that. And I feel like I DESERVE a man who has the same convictions and is willing to go the same distance. I've invested all the good years of my life with him. I deserve honesty and fidelity, and I won't settle for less.

 

Finally, once the vows are broken, I feel like the CONTRACT itself is broken. The minute his pants come off for some other woman, he will have voided my contract.

 

Like I said... I'm "old school".

[newbby]

i think somebody said this before, but, what is it that you love about your wife?

[Hard2Think]

i think somebody said this before, but, what is it that you love about your wife?

 

Today is a bad day to ask me that. But I'll try. We've been together for a long time. I've been with her since I was 22 years old. I sometimes can't imagine being without her.

 

Maybe I'm also hanging too much in the past about how she used to be ..

[newbby]

well, i think that unless people continuously make an effort on themselves outside of the relationship, then they gradually lose themselves. happiness becomes dependent on the other, or so they think, then they begin to blame and resent each other...this is something that each partner has to realise and try to do, along with what lj said earlier, not reacting to each other. try meditation, i think it would help you.

[Ladyjane14]

I love you LJ, but I'm afraid you don't understand at all. The language you use is full of pride.

 

I can understand this position if you knew you had done your part, so to speak. As hypocritical as it must sound - I'd be far more angry if my wife had an affair than I think she should be at me. I say this because I never deprived her of love, sex, and affection - even if we were fighting. I've sacrificed much for her and I was glad to do it because I love her. If she has an A under those circumstances - then I may feel as you do . But if this is about sandwiches - it's a whole other story.

 

But if you left your husband feeling like some loser who deserves only the scraps you're willing to give him. If you disappeared in his times of need. If your actions showed disdain and spite - then this position is nothing short of self-righteous. And you may leave under the guise of his having broken this sacred trust you speak of .. but that's just, again, a self-righteous and all too easy position to take because you refuse to acknowledge that you failed to hold your end of the vows as well.

 

I apologize if this sounds in any way harsh. It's not because I do have great respect and gratitude towards you. I'm very interested in your POV, and as such - I hope you understand why I engage you like this ..

 

Sweetie... don't think for a minute that I haven't 'earned my stripes'. I cheated in every relationship I ever had before this one. It was all I knew.... the only working model I had. But having been on the other side, I know now that there's no excuse that's good enough for cheating. You aren't just "cheating" your spouse. If you're operating outside of what you TRULY believe in... you're cheating yourself.

 

I think in the back of your mind you probably believe that your wife owes you a pass on this... she doesn't. She made mistakes, but so did you... and that was before the infidelity.

 

You think my husband wasn't feeling just as misunderstood and miserable as you were? I guarantee you that he was. But he bore equal responsibility in our communications problems. That wasn't all on me. And unless your wife is THE DEVIL, it's not all on her either.

 

In hindsight and working from a new perspective, I can see now that a truly reconciled marriage is worth it's weight in gold. I wouldn't have believed it back then, I assure you. It might have been a mistake to divorce out-of-hand, but sure as the world is round.... it's the mistake I would have made at the time.

I would have expected no less from my husband either if our roles were reversed. I'd have been out on my ear in a skinny minute. That's always been our particular "contract".

 

Until you experience a recovered relationship, it's impossible to wrap your mind around the level of healing that really is possible. Wayward spouses get into this mess because on some level, they've lost faith. In their minds, the relationship is irreparable. But that's not always set in stone.

 

In order to get there though, you have to absolutely embrace your responsibility in what went wrong and start 'doing business' in a new way. You can't worry about what the other guy is doing or about what they did in the past. It just spins your wheels.

[Mz. Pixie]

Does everyone have me on ignore??

 

I made a very long well thought out post earlier and no one even acknowledged I said anything, much less H2T.

[Ladyjane14]

Careful there- H2T- you're close to justification with these kind of statements. I think you still do feel a bit justified in your actions. I did for a long time but listen carefully- no matter what she has done- it didn't give you the right to do what you did.

 

Really let that sink in for a minute.

 

Breathe.

 

Ok- I realize that you're hurt for what she did, but right now you can't focus on that. Because if you want to save this marriage (and I'm not sure you do) then you're going to have to focus on her pain and making ammends to her.

 

It's not time for her to make ammends to you yet. That will come during MC if you guys stay with it.

 

She's not the one concerned right now with saving the marriage- it's you.

 

She sounds like the kind of woman who is very much about image. She wants her friends to think highly of her. She's feeling humiliated by your actions and she's having to face the fact that her husband has screwed around on her.

 

She is full of being the victim right now- wouldn't you be if the sitch was reversed?? She needs time to settle in to what you did and then find out the reasons why. It's quick for you to say "Yeah, so I messed around- now how can we fix what made me cheat in the first place?" Instead of focusing on the fact that you cheated.

 

I'm interested in if she's such a selfish shrew then why do you love her?? If she's abusive to you then why do you love her??

 

You have to do the work now until she's healed. If you don't have it in you then cut and bail now- because her recovery period may not function on your time level.

 

I'm not bashing ya- because to be honest- I didn't even try to work it out after my affair. I didn't feel it was worth it, but in looking back I wish I could have said I tried for the sake of my kids, if only that.

 

I don't know about anybody else... but I just expect that others pay attention to your posts like I do. This is SOLID GOLD, but hey.... that's not unusual.

[whichwayisup]

Tell her I have no intention of leaving ..? She tells me yesterday for the umpteenth time "What makes you think I should stay with .. you?"

 

I was able to take that crap up until now. But not today, unfortunately. She wants to go? Let her go!

 

What I meant by that was - Maybe if both of you just make a pact not to "leave" eachother until things settle down, that way the threat isn't there nagging in the background. Sometimes people hold back (meaning, maybe you need to say your peace and get it out of your system, without having to worry she's gonna say F off, or get out.) Hope this makes sense...

 

I understand you're frustrated, and all I can say is, both of you have to allow eachother to vent and say stuff - Even if in the heat of the moment it hurts. Only way things will get resolved.

[Hard2Think]

Does everyone have me on ignore??

 

I made a very long well thought out post earlier and no one even acknowledged I said anything, much less H2T.

Sorry, Pixie. I did read the entire post. It was excellent - and there was nothing I could disagree with.

 

I guess I wasn't ready to discuss the why I love my wife question yet. I still can't articulate that one right now really ..

[Hard2Think]

A pact like that would likely be meaningless. She's struggling with what to do and now so am I. If she wants to leave - the pact would be of little value. I wouldn't want her to stay for that reason.

 

What I meant by that was - Maybe if both of you just make a pact not to "leave" eachother until things settle down, that way the threat isn't there nagging in the background. Sometimes people hold back (meaning, maybe you need to say your peace and get it out of your system, without having to worry she's gonna say F off, or get out.) Hope this makes sense...

 

I understand you're frustrated, and all I can say is, both of you have to allow eachother to vent and say stuff - Even if in the heat of the moment it hurts. Only way things will get resolved.

[Hard2Think]

I'm not at all looking for a free pass ..! If she gave me one, I'd still be very hesitant to move forward - unlike a few days ago.

 

I just don't feel like I'm sure I want a reconciliation right now. I want her to KNOW what it's been like to live with her for the past 8 years. I'm realizing that in this marriage she may no longer have anything to bring to the table and hasn't for a very long time.

 

The issues that existed before the affair are still there and sorry - but I'm not buying that I was difficult to communicate with at all.

 

Sweetie... don't think for a minute that I haven't 'earned my stripes'. I cheated in every relationship I ever had before this one. It was all I knew.... the only working model I had. But having been on the other side, I know now that there's no excuse that's good enough for cheating. You aren't just "cheating" your spouse. If you're operating outside of what you TRULY believe in... you're cheating yourself.

 

I think in the back of your mind you probably believe that your wife owes you a pass on this... she doesn't. She made mistakes, but so did you... and that was before the infidelity.

 

You think my husband wasn't feeling just as misunderstood and miserable as you were? I guarantee you that he was. But he bore equal responsibility in our communications problems. That wasn't all on me. And unless your wife is THE DEVIL, it's not all on her either.

 

In hindsight and working from a new perspective, I can see now that a truly reconciled marriage is worth it's weight in gold. I wouldn't have believed it back then, I assure you. It might have been a mistake to divorce out-of-hand, but sure as the world is round.... it's the mistake I would have made at the time.

I would have expected no less from my husband either if our roles were reversed. I'd have been out on my ear in a skinny minute. That's always been our particular "contract".

 

Until you experience a recovered relationship, it's impossible to wrap your mind around the level of healing that really is possible. Wayward spouses get into this mess because on some level, they've lost faith. In their minds, the relationship is irreparable. But that's not always set in stone.

 

In order to get there though, you have to absolutely embrace your responsibility in what went wrong and start 'doing business' in a new way. You can't worry about what the other guy is doing or about what they did in the past. It just spins your wheels.