I'm the MM and I love my OW - now what?

[TheWife]

I'll give her all the breaks she wants ..! So what do I do? Do I just keep my distance and give her space until she decides what she wants to do?

Just keep putting yourself in her shoes!! Would you like to be treated the way you've been treating her?

 

You are starting to sound more like my STBXH, MotoMan. He complained the entire time about how ooooo so unhappy he was, but didn't do one damn HONEST thing. Then when his OW threatened him that she would come our home if H didn't leave me for her, H still complained and lied. The when H beat his OW to the punch to tell me about his A, he still wasn't honest. And he still complained! And he's still complaining!!!!

 

Now, get over yourself already and give your poor W space. Yes, space!! Let her come to terms with your betrayal in her own way. While you're at it, since you've been a pretty lousy H for having TWO A, do something that you might have half a chance of being good at...a FATHER! Maybe, just maybe, your W might realize you may be "worth" having around as a husband!

[Hard2Think]

I've always been a very involved father .. so I think I have more than "half a chance" at being good at it.

 

Having been a flight attendant you might appreciate this: my wife was also a flight attendant for 13 of our sixteen year marriage. So guess who was both the mommy and the daddy 1/3 of the year? I never complained - but there ain't nobody going to question my parenting skills!

 

I appreciate your input as always - but you sound like you're angry at MotoMan and you're just taking it out on me.

 

Just keep putting yourself in her shoes!! Would you like to be treated the way you've been treating her?

 

You are starting to sound more like my STBXH, MotoMan. He complained the entire time about how ooooo so unhappy he was, but didn't do one damn HONEST thing. Then when his OW threatened him that she would come our home if H didn't leave me for her, H still complained and lied. The when H beat his OW to the punch to tell me about his A, he still wasn't honest. And he still complained! And he's still complaining!!!!

 

Now, get over yourself already and give your poor W space. Yes, space!! Let her come to terms with your betrayal in her own way. While you're at it, since you've been a pretty lousy H for having TWO A, do something that you might have half a chance of being good at...a FATHER! Maybe, just maybe, your W might realize you may be "worth" having around as a husband!

[Mz. Pixie]

I personally do not think H2T and Motoman are the same except that they both cheated.

 

I think you should give her space but still be loving. Keep telling her that you love her and that you want the marriage to work but don't invade her personal space.

 

Try to meet her needs as well as you can without kissing her etc. Let her be the one to initiate.

 

Wouldn't hurt to add in "I'd really like to kiss (hug, make love, etc) to you but I'm afraid that you'll push me away" from time to time.

[Hard2Think]

Wouldn't hurt to add in "I'd really like to kiss (hug, make love, etc) to you but I'm afraid that you'll push me away" from time to time.

 

That'll be easy. Ironically - that's what I told her a few times before the A ..!

[TheWife]

I've always been a very involved father .. so I think I have more than "half a chance" at being good at it.

 

Having been a flight attendant you might appreciate this: my wife was also a flight attendant for 13 of our sixteen year marriage. So guess who was both the mommy and the daddy 1/3 of the year? I never complained - but there ain't nobody going to question my parenting skills!

 

I appreciate your input as always - but you sound like you're angry at MotoMan and you're just taking it out on me.

No, I'm not angry.

 

You've gotten A LOT of pretty good advice which has been pretty much the same. I am annoyed, like others, that you don't seem to be getting it because you keep coming up with excuses and complaints about your W because her response is not what you expect.

 

You're absolutely correct that you and my STBXH are not the same. While you two cheated, YOU recommitted yourself to your W and M and you're willing to go through the grind. My STBXH never made the commitment to the M. But your ongoing complaints (reminded me of your know who) are starting to annoy a lot of people, me included, even those without a H or STBXH like mine.

 

There are so many flight attendants who are parents and are very good at it. Many of them are also single parents. I don't know what routes your W flew or her schedule. BUT I do know one thing which most people don't realize is that this job allows so much flexibility that you wouldn't otherwise get working M-F from 9-5. So, it sounds to me that you are still complaining for having to be the mommy/daddy for 1/3 of the year? But what was she doing 3/4 of the year? Sounds like she was a mommy/wife/homemaker? Can you see where this is going?

 

Look, H2T, you can't keep expecting your W to come around the way you expect or hope to. And that's your dilemma right now. As a result, you're beating yourself up for it and you will continue to do so. Your W is struggling emotionall, mentally, and yes, physically. I lost 13 pounds in one month after D-day. So your W, if she hasn't already is probably beating herself up as well, in the process. I bet your booties that in her mind, she felt she was a great wife, mother, homemaker and she probably hasn't figured out the whys and hows that made you step out of the M.

 

If you are as you say a loving father, and I've no doubt about that, then start applying the same loving ways to your W. Let he soak that in. But if you keep pushing her, you may end up pushing her away.

[a4a]

I've always been a very involved father .. so I think I have more than "half a chance" at being good at it.

 

Having been a flight attendant you might appreciate this: my wife was also a flight attendant for 13 of our sixteen year marriage. So guess who was both the mommy and the daddy 1/3 of the year? I never complained - but there ain't nobody going to question my parenting skills!

 

I appreciate your input as always - but you sound like you're angry at MotoMan and you're just taking it out on me.

 

 

I guess she was a volunteer flight attendant?

 

From the way you spoke about her wanting trips, new kitchens and all I assumed you were the sole bread winner and she just expected you to hand over a wad of money to her....... wow... so she is not just a spoiled rotten woman looking for handouts your whole marriage as you seemed to make her out to be???

 

hummm.

 

sorry but you are indeed frustrating me at this point ....

you only can seem to keep saying how evil she is but you only own up to sticking your dick in two other women..... you are not perfect either besides your affairs and why don't you look at why your evil wife pushed you away in the first place before you felt the need to run to another woman... was your wife always rotten to you? She was just born rotten?

 

(this is my 2x4 for you for the day.....it was meant to make you a tad pissy.... maybe you will think better in a pissed defensive mode)

 

scorecard

 

wife is obviously just evil

husband had 2 A's because wife is evil

husband gives her whatever she wants does everything for her that she could want. ( really now are you sure of this?)

husband takes care of kids probably just as good if not better as she was abscent 1/3 of the year for 13 years.

 

Sounds like one hell of a competition to be in.

[Hard2Think]

She did the job because she liked it. She'd be doing it today if it wasn't for the fact that she got laid off. We did not need her money in the least (although lately she has had the gall to complain that I don't make enough money). It's not a well paying profession, but it is fun. At least it was at the time for her.

 

I looked at why my wife pushed me away many times. I asked her why in 180 different ways. She confided in a buddy of mine that she thought I wasn't very exciting because I rarely surprise her with trips to Hawaii (like a the hubby of one of her friends. After I geard that I made several attempts to do that (not Hawaii, but not bad nonetheless) - but she made me cancel them as soon as she found out for one reasonor another.

 

I'm not saying she's evil. You said that. I am saying that she showed me little affection and infrequent and crappy sex for years now. She didn't seem to see the need to hold back from constant criticism and snide comments at me.

 

I'm not perfect. I didn't demand perfection from her either. But the normal, basic elements that make a relationship were absent - because she didn't give a sh*t about doing them. Her hobbies, jobs, and vapid friends were more important - and like I told her many times - I was the LAST guy on the list. I get the scraps that are left of her before she decides to fall asleep at 9:00 PM.

 

I didn't just give her the scraps. I was always there for her. I make very decent money and keep the whole family in comfort and security. I never yell ate her or beat her. In fact - during our entire relationship I NEVER refused to hold her hand nor hug her even if we were fighting. I always was unconditionally loving towards her. She was not. She uses sex and affection as well as their withdrawal as the carrot and stick.

 

In times of crisis - I've always been there for her 150%. In times of crisis for me (for which there have been only 2 maybe), she's nowhere to be seen.

 

I'm not making any of this up. And if I were really keeping a scorecard - I'd have much more than what I'm boring you with now to put on it.

 

There is no scorecard but the bottom line is this:

 

1) I've been married to has chosen to be emotionally and verbally abusive to me

2) I've been neglected - relegated to being the support system for her lifestyle without the status of lover/husband. Her choice also.

3) I mentioned these things many times and she did not take it seriously at all.

 

The crux of the issue, I think is that she's very selfish. That's all. If it ain't about her - it ain't important. Period.

 

If she had complaints and issues - I'd love to hear them. She never lacked an eager listening ear for that. I've always treated her very well and in spite of it all - lovingly.

 

I know this stikes a nerve for the BS's out there - but as bad as having an affair is, those things don't always happen in a vacuum. I would have divorced her a long time ago if it hadn't been for the fact that I love her and we have kids. I was OK with monogamy. Very much so. I signed up for that when I got married. But I did not sign up for celibacy and none of you should expect your SO to do so either.

 

And as women - none of you actually know what it's like to be rejected sexually and emotionally by your wife. Particularly when you've more than done right by her. Walk in my shoes for a while and see how you like it. The feeling that comes from another person actually thinking I was great was better that I had imagined. If my wife would have treated me even half as nicely as the OW did - OW never would have stood a chance. Sorry if you don't like it - but that's the truth.

 

I realize that some of you would take comfort in knowing that I somehow caused her to be this way. I must have done something! Surely I neglected her. I must have treated her in a demeaning way. Maybe I beat her - yeah, that's the ticket There must be something, right?

 

The problem I have is that I'm an idiot. I should have seen the warning signs early on and bailed out before marrying her. But then again - I never would have met the kids I have ..!

I guess she was a volunteer flight attendant?

 

From the way you spoke about her wanting trips, new kitchens and all I assumed you were the sole bread winner and she just expected you to hand over a wad of money to her....... wow... so she is not just a spoiled rotten woman looking for handouts your whole marriage as you seemed to make her out to be???

 

hummm.

 

sorry but you are indeed frustrating me at this point ....

you only can seem to keep saying how evil she is but you only own up to sticking your dick in two other women..... you are not perfect either besides your affairs and why don't you look at why your evil wife pushed you away in the first place before you felt the need to run to another woman... was your wife always rotten to you? She was just born rotten?

 

(this is my 2x4 for you for the day.....it was meant to make you a tad pissy.... maybe you will think better in a pissed defensive mode)

 

scorecard

 

wife is obviously just evil

husband had 2 A's because wife is evil

husband gives her whatever she wants does everything for her that she could want. ( really now are you sure of this?)

husband takes care of kids probably just as good if not better as she was abscent 1/3 of the year for 13 years.

 

Sounds like one hell of a competition to be in.

[hotgurl]

I had mentioned this earlier and would liek your thoughts.

 

I had thought you said that in the beganing your marraige was good. In fact is was good for several years, the she started to becomes cold.

 

I was wondering when this happend at what point was it. After the children were born. If I am confused I apologize.

[TheWife]

And I bet you didn't complain when you got to fly first class for practically nothing, did you?

 

My STBXH came to my long layovers to NY, Boston, Miami. He got the full first class treatment while I worked. Oh yeah, H and I flew first class to Paris and Rome. He didn't complain about that either....of course not...But, boy, did he have a list of complaints....

 

The other thing my STBXH didn't say is that in the beginning of our R, he wasn't making a whole lot of money, Te times I visited him in Chicago, I had to rearrange my monthly schedule and reduce my hours just so we'd spend more time together. When I was there, his fridge was empty. I ended up buying most of the groceries and I still made dinner out of them....ok, enough already....I have moved on. Just couldn't help myself.... :laugh:

 

Take heart, H2T, just relax and treat your W the way you would want to be treated if the situation were reversed. I kept reminding my STBXH the same, but it never sunk in....

[TheWife]

She did the job because she liked it. She'd be doing it today if it wasn't for the fact that she got laid off. We did not need her money in the least (although lately she has had the gall to complain that I don't make enough money). It's not a well paying profession, but it is fun. At least it was at the time for her.

 

I looked at why my wife pushed me away many times. I asked her why in 180 different ways. She confided in a buddy of mine that she thought I wasn't very exciting because I rarely surprise her with trips to Hawaii (like a the hubby of one of her friends. After I geard that I made several attempts to do that (not Hawaii, but not bad nonetheless) - but she made me cancel them as soon as she found out for one reasonor another.

 

I'm not saying she's evil. You said that. I am saying that she showed me little affection and infrequent and crappy sex for years now. She didn't seem to see the need to hold back from constant criticism and snide comments at me.

 

I'm not perfect. I didn't demand perfection from her either. But the normal, basic elements that make a relationship were absent - because she didn't give a sh*t about doing them. Her hobbies, jobs, and vapid friends were more important - and like I told her many times - I was the LAST guy on the list. I get the scraps that are left of her before she decides to fall asleep at 9:00 PM.

 

I didn't just give her the scraps. I was always there for her. I make very decent money and keep the whole family in comfort and security. I never yell ate her or beat her. In fact - during our entire relationship I NEVER refused to hold her hand nor hug her even if we were fighting. I always was unconditionally loving towards her. She was not. She uses sex and affection as well as their withdrawal as the carrot and stick.

 

In times of crisis - I've always been there for her 150%. In times of crisis for me (for which there have been only 2 maybe), she's nowhere to be seen.

 

I'm not making any of this up. And if I were really keeping a scorecard - I'd have much more than what I'm boring you with now to put on it.

 

There is no scorecard but the bottom line is this:

 

1) I've been married to has chosen to be emotionally and verbally abusive to me

2) I've been neglected - relegated to being the support system for her lifestyle without the status of lover/husband. Her choice also.

3) I mentioned these things many times and she did not take it seriously at all.

 

The crux of the issue, I think is that she's very selfish. That's all. If it ain't about her - it ain't important. Period.

 

If she had complaints and issues - I'd love to hear them. She never lacked an eager listening ear for that. I've always treated her very well and in spite of it all - lovingly.

 

I know this stikes a nerve for the BS's out there - but as bad as having an affair is, those things don't always happen in a vacuum. I would have divorced her a long time ago if it hadn't been for the fact that I love her and we have kids. I was OK with monogamy. Very much so. I signed up for that when I got married. But I did not sign up for celibacy and none of you should expect your SO to do so either.

 

And as women - none of you actually know what it's like to be rejected sexually and emotionally by your wife. Particularly when you've more than done right by her. Walk in my shoes for a while and see how you like it. The feeling that comes from another person actually thinking I was great was better that I had imagined. If my wife would have treated me even half as nicely as the OW did - OW never would have stood a chance. Sorry if you don't like it - but that's the truth.

 

I realize that some of you would take comfort in knowing that I somehow caused her to be this way. I must have done something! Surely I neglected her. I must have treated her in a demeaning way. Maybe I beat her - yeah, that's the ticket There must be something, right?

 

The problem I have is that I'm an idiot. I should have seen the warning signs early on and bailed out before marrying her. But then again - I never would have met the kids I have ..!

Golly gee wheez, H2T. I really was starting to give you the benefit of the doubt. But, dude, you are starting to sound like my STBXH. Are you sure you two aren't twins? I bet if she wrote her own thread, we might be able to know he side of the story.

 

How long ago was she laid off? Was she furloughed? Flight attendants who were furloughed following 9/11 and depending which airline and her union, she could be hired again as long as she didn't quit. The airline I work for has a 5 year window period after being furloughed to return when your seniority comes up.

 

By the way, being a flight attendant can be a well paid profession, depending which airline you work for and your union and contract. There you go again, cutting your W down for her choice of career. Tell me what job is out there that you can do the following (assuming her seniority of 16 years):

 

1) travel at the drop of a hat

2) take time off without having to wait for your two week paid vacation every year.

3) go anywhere you want in the world at a fraction of the cost.

4) make $43.00/hr + per diem, and overtime pay of $48/hr domestic; $5 more if international.

5) full medical/dental benefits for working 70 flight hours per month, not to mention 401K option.

6) With 15 years or more seniority and retirement you acquire lifetime travel benefits.

 

Ain't too shabby, don't you think?

[Hard2Think]

We're similar? Are you saying that he brought up to you the fact that you were not showing him any attention and sex - and you ignored him? Were you giving a hard time for little or no reason and you thought that was "ok"? If so then maybe you should have listened. Live and learn. Better luck next time

 

Golly gee wheez, H2T. I really was starting to give you the benefit of the doubt. But, dude, you are starting to sound like my STBXH. Are you sure you two aren't twins? I bet if she wrote her own thread, we might be able to know he side of the story.

 

How long ago was she laid off? Was she furloughed? Flight attendants who were furloughed following 9/11 and depending which airline and her union, she could be hired again as long as she didn't quit. The airline I work for has a 5 year window period after being furloughed to return when your seniority comes up.

[hotgurl]

We're similar? Are you saying that he brought up to you the fact that you were not showing him any attention and sex - and you ignored him? Were you giving a hard time for little or no reason and you thought that was "ok"? If so then maybe you should have listened. Live and learn. Better luck next time

 

Maybe she had a reason and you didn't know it.

 

besides you haven't answered my question.

[Hard2Think]

I honestly don't know what caused my wife to start being this way. It did begin with the children - particularly with the second one. That was about 8 or 9 years ago. It just got progressively worse over time.

 

Maybe you're right. She may have had an unknown reason for being this way. It looked to me like she did this because that's her temperament and she didn't see how destructive it is. Just because I asked her many times to please tell me what's wrong doesn't mean I didn't deserve it. I should have been a better guesser. Maybe I'l get therapy to find out why I can't seem to read minds like a good husband should.

 

Maybe she had a reason and you didn't know it.

 

besides you haven't answered my question.

[TheWife]

We're similar? Are you saying that he brought up to you the fact that you were not showing him any attention and sex - and you ignored him? Were you giving a hard time for little or no reason and you thought that was "ok"? If so then maybe you should have listened. Live and learn. Better luck next time

Oh no,H2T, STBXH got sex all right and I let him do what pleased him. I was open to the things that turned him on. He knows it.

 

So the problem was not me giving him enough sex or attention, the problem was he wanted two women. He liked the assertive in me, but he also liked the passive one. And as you already know, I've already opened the gate out to the pasture for him to roam because the assertive one, has moved on. He on the other hand, hasn't mooo-ed in with the passive one.

[Hard2Think]

Ok, so then can we agree that if you feel like beating up on someone it should be on your STBXH and not me since maybe our problems are not as similar as you're imagining them to be?

 

I'm sorry to say this .. but the stress you're under is making you sound just a little "nutty" with the last few messages.

 

But I do hope things work out well for you. I know you're in alot of pain right now. Particularly in your situation.

 

Oh no,H2T, STBXH got sex all right and I let him do what pleased him. I was open to the things that turned him on. He knows it.

 

So the problem was not me giving him enough sex or attention, the problem was he wanted two women. He liked the assertive in me, but he also liked the passive one. And as you already know, I've already opened the gate out to the pasture for him to roam because the assertive one, has moved on. He on the other hand, hasn't mooo-ed in with the passive one.

[TheWife]

I honestly don't know what caused my wife to start being this way. It did begin with the children - particularly with the second one. That was about 8 or 9 years ago. It just got progressively worse over time.

 

Maybe you're right. She may have had an unknown reason for being this way. It looked to me like she did this because that's her temperament and she didn't see how destructive it is. Just because I asked her many times to please tell me what's wrong doesn't mean I didn't deserve it. I should have been a better guesser. Maybe I'l get therapy to find out why I can't seem to read minds like a good husband should.

This is where you and my STBXH are similar.

 

You two assume a lot! Stop! Stop! Stop!

 

Look at your words..."It looked to me...she may have unknown reason...I should have been a better guesser..." STOP IT!

 

This is the same sh*t H & I went through and even in MC. Have you ever thought for one second that childbirth can change a woman's mental state because of hormones. Have you ever asked her at the time when you first noticed some changes? C'mon!

 

And STOP putting your W in a negative frame! As long as you do, you will constantly find complaints about your W and you will rarely see the good in her.

[TheWife]

Ok, so then can we agree that if you feel like beating up on someone it should be on your STBXH and not me since maybe our problems are not as similar as you're imagining them to be?

 

I'm sorry to say this .. but the stress you're under is making you sound just a little "nutty" with the last few messages.

 

But I do hope things work out well for you. I know you're in alot of pain right now. Particularly in your situation.

Yep....coming from you H2T, I wouldn't expect more. You starting to sound more like a kid trapped in a man's body who is throwing a tantrum because his W isn't jumping when you want her to jump and you're not get the replies you want to hear.

 

You're still not getting it are you? Your thread is getting so long with the same advice and you're still not getting it. You're quick to tell everyone the crappy stuff your W has done or did not do, but then you won't answer questions from people that could give away the "real you".....yeah....kinda like my STBXH. Amazing how things seem clearer now....

 

See, there you go again....assuming...with "I know that you're in a lot of pain..." Gee wheez, H2T...have you read my thread lately? You should step out of your thread for a little and take a peek. Really....and tell me if you still think I'm angry....

[NoIDidn't]

H2T

 

While I might not agree with the tone, most of what TW has said is valid. You assume much of your W. There is a saying that I tell my H often when he does that: Assuming makes as a$$ of U & ME (assume - &). Think about that.

 

My M started going downhill after the kids too, and my H gave the same lame excuses for his feelings too. First problem: he assumed he knew what I was feeling and he was WRONG. Second problem: he assumed he understood my actions and he was WRONG. Third problem: he decided to check out of the M emotionally first and left ME hanging - that led to his A.

 

Of course, you have all your reasons for her short comings. I have a degree in Math, and the last time I checked 2/3 is still BIGGER than 1/3. Get over it. Its part of the deal when you have kids, married or not.

 

This is the thing. Men have a tendency to think that b/c the woman hasn't told them outright that they are being lousy partners, that they must be doing their job. WRONG, its a commonly bad assumption (there's that a$$ word again). Most men think that if she still does the occasional special thing for me, I must smell like a rose garden in the relationship part of our M. WRONG AGAIN.

 

When she was getting on your back for "no reason" or "out of the blue", did you take a look around? Was the garbage taken out? Did you bring home takeout for dinner since she was tired from her trip back home? Did you take the kids out the the park to give her some time to herself? Did you do anything that she didn't have to ask or tell you to do?

 

These kinds of things are frustrating for us wives. Whether you know it or not. These are the things that women decide mean that a man doesn't care for them enough over. B/C in our minds, if you care for us, you will lighten our load. BUT.....my explanations doesn't mean she is right. It just means that she has reasons that YOU haven't considered b/c of YOUR assumptions. DON'T DO THAT.

 

Oh, and your jabs at the BW was really uncalled for. Believe it or not, there are some of us that know the part that we played in the trouble in our M and have no problems admitting to it. After my children, I didn't want to have sex with a man who couldn't lift a finger to help me around the house. His excuse that he didn't know what needed to be done. No woman is going to open herself up to sex when she is running on empty. You want sex, fill her up with something else that you know she will appreciate. Not the usual expensive gifts.

 

And we women by nature are NOT asexual beings. We like sex. He!!, we LOVE it when the relationship with the man makes us feel alive. A tired and unappreciated woman does not feel alive. A woman living with the stress of taking care of her children's needs, and her H acting like he is just a big child with sexual needs is NOT going to feel alive.

 

Quite frankly, if it was only sex that was missing from your M, then you could have fixed that without having affairs. A famous quote goes something like this: BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO SEE IN THE WORLD/YOUR LIFE.

 

You have been told to stop linking your moods to your W. Now know that the changes you want to see, you have to initiate. And yes, it does go both ways, but it ain't gonna work if you keep pointing out that she's not working as hard as you, in your assumptions.

 

My H told me, when I didn't know that he was having an A, that he was seriously considering getting out of our M b/c there was no passion. Told me that he loved me but wasn't in love with me. I wanted to slap him. How dare he accuse me of being the reason that those things had come to be! I am a very passionate person, if you can't tell by my writing. I grab life by the horns and demand that it move according to my dictates (as best I can that is). I asked for more passion for years and he told me "I'm just not a passionate person like you". But at that point in time, I was being told that I had sapped him of his passion.

 

That aside hopefully gets you to thinking about what your W may be thinking. I am 9 months out from my FIRST D-Day. She is only about 6 weeks out. Cut her some slack. Now is NOT the time to be breaking out your list of complaints. Now is the time to know that she needs YOU to be an ADULT and the shoulder to cry on that she really needs right now. And sometimes you will try to be there and she will push you away. That is b/c the hurt is so large, so all-emcompassing that she is afraid that if she leans on you, you will move away and let her get hurt all over again. So she pushes you away to stand on her own two feet. That is called self-preservation, man. She is hurting like hell, and you seem to be more concerned with your disappointments than with her hurt.

 

Can't be like that. Step back. Look in her eyes. Take a good look at the pain in those eyes. The pain that your actions put there (notice I did not say YOU put there). Know that she is looking to you to make it better, but its hard when the person that hurt you is also the person that can help you heal.

 

If she is backing out of counselling, let her. BUT, go yourself alone. Do not talk about her. Talk about you. Your expectations no matter how outrageous. I know you have some, we all do. And then, listen to the counsellor.

 

Sorry for being so long winded. I hope something I said helps you in some way.

[Mz. Pixie]

And as women - none of you actually know what it's like to be rejected sexually and emotionally by your wife. Particularly when you've more than done right by her. Walk in my shoes for a while and see how you like it. The feeling that comes from another person actually thinking I was great was better that I had imagined. If my wife would have treated me even half as nicely as the OW did - OW never would have stood a chance. Sorry if you don't like it - but that's the truth.

 

 

You're stereotyping somewhat. This is not exactly true. I certainly know what it's like to be emotionally rejected over and over and over again- thus my infidelity.

 

According to Willard Harley (of marriage builders) if any one of our top emotional needs is not met- of which he says it's affection for women and sex for men, that most people- even highly religious and moral people, will find it hard to keep from cheating. That some who are extremely moral will resist but many fail. I consider him to be a pretty good authority on the subject considering he's one of the best known marriage counselors in the world.

 

I think that some of us are being a little hard on H2T because we've never walked in his shoes.

 

I have so I know where he's coming from.

 

Yet (here is my 2 x 4) you're still in recovery H, and it's probably natural to feel this way. There's some entitlement there- which is probably what is setting The Wife on fire.

 

It took me a very long time to get the fact that I had no right to do what I did. No matter what my H had done, he still did deserve more from me than this, and so did my children. I'm almost three years out of my affair and divorce and I've only in the last few months come to real terms with that.

 

This is your place to vent- and I understand that. I also give you credit for trying to mend your marriage- showing up- and at least trying MC. At some point though, you need to decide- either you're going to stick it and suck it up or you're not. Only you can decide if it's worth it or not or if you can do that.

 

LJ gave you good advice about being reactive to her emotions. Perhaps it would be good to focus on that??

[Hard2Think]

Thanks for your post!

 

Actually your math isn't quite correct. She and I split the 2/3 that she was there. So that means that we each had 1/3 while she was home. Then I got an additional 1/3 while she was gone. So I was the one with the 2/3. Again - I'm not complaining - I was just answering TheWife who seemed to suggest that I wasn't being enough of a father or something like that .. Oh and I took 4 months off from work after my first child was born so we could go through that rough period together. I was happy to be able to do it and it was one of the happiest periods of my entire life.

 

The other issues you mentioned are sad, but they don't really match what happened with us. I would also say that if your husband had taken time to ask you what he could do to make things better - you probably would have told him. I wished to God she would tell me. She did say she wanted more vacations, and a new car. But she never came to me with behavioral issues that I could work with.

 

And to answer you question - yes I did and do alot of things for her without her asking. I know you all think I'm hiding something about myself - but I'm not. I wished there had been a thing about me she hated - then at least I could do something about it. One of the most frustrating things for me was not getting any feedback as to what could be wrong.

 

Also, if I may - I think you have far from admitted your part in the marital problems. You admit denying him sex, but then you blame him for that as well. I really am surprised to what extent many women there are, not just you, who don't realize how damaging it is to deny sex and affection to their husbands for an extended period of time.

 

The last past of your message is indeed very helpful. Thank you for that. I will do my best to continue to be as supportive as I can with her until she decides to keep me or divorce me. That insight into how she feels right now is a good reminder for me .. Thanks again.

 

 

H2T

 

While I might not agree with the tone, most of what TW has said is valid. You assume much of your W. There is a saying that I tell my H often when he does that: Assuming makes as a$$ of U & ME (assume - &). Think about that.

 

My M started going downhill after the kids too, and my H gave the same lame excuses for his feelings too. First problem: he assumed he knew what I was feeling and he was WRONG. Second problem: he assumed he understood my actions and he was WRONG. Third problem: he decided to check out of the M emotionally first and left ME hanging - that led to his A.

 

Of course, you have all your reasons for her short comings. I have a degree in Math, and the last time I checked 2/3 is still BIGGER than 1/3. Get over it. Its part of the deal when you have kids, married or not.

 

This is the thing. Men have a tendency to think that b/c the woman hasn't told them outright that they are being lousy partners, that they must be doing their job. WRONG, its a commonly bad assumption (there's that a$$ word again). Most men think that if she still does the occasional special thing for me, I must smell like a rose garden in the relationship part of our M. WRONG AGAIN.

 

When she was getting on your back for "no reason" or "out of the blue", did you take a look around? Was the garbage taken out? Did you bring home takeout for dinner since she was tired from her trip back home? Did you take the kids out the the park to give her some time to herself? Did you do anything that she didn't have to ask or tell you to do?

 

These kinds of things are frustrating for us wives. Whether you know it or not. These are the things that women decide mean that a man doesn't care for them enough over. B/C in our minds, if you care for us, you will lighten our load. BUT.....my explanations doesn't mean she is right. It just means that she has reasons that YOU haven't considered b/c of YOUR assumptions. DON'T DO THAT.

 

Oh, and your jabs at the BW was really uncalled for. Believe it or not, there are some of us that know the part that we played in the trouble in our M and have no problems admitting to it. After my children, I didn't want to have sex with a man who couldn't lift a finger to help me around the house. His excuse that he didn't know what needed to be done. No woman is going to open herself up to sex when she is running on empty. You want sex, fill her up with something else that you know she will appreciate. Not the usual expensive gifts.

 

And we women by nature are NOT asexual beings. We like sex. He!!, we LOVE it when the relationship with the man makes us feel alive. A tired and unappreciated woman does not feel alive. A woman living with the stress of taking care of her children's needs, and her H acting like he is just a big child with sexual needs is NOT going to feel alive.

 

Quite frankly, if it was only sex that was missing from your M, then you could have fixed that without having affairs. A famous quote goes something like this: BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO SEE IN THE WORLD/YOUR LIFE.

 

You have been told to stop linking your moods to your W. Now know that the changes you want to see, you have to initiate. And yes, it does go both ways, but it ain't gonna work if you keep pointing out that she's not working as hard as you, in your assumptions.

 

My H told me, when I didn't know that he was having an A, that he was seriously considering getting out of our M b/c there was no passion. Told me that he loved me but wasn't in love with me. I wanted to slap him. How dare he accuse me of being the reason that those things had come to be! I am a very passionate person, if you can't tell by my writing. I grab life by the horns and demand that it move according to my dictates (as best I can that is). I asked for more passion for years and he told me "I'm just not a passionate person like you". But at that point in time, I was being told that I had sapped him of his passion.

 

That aside hopefully gets you to thinking about what your W may be thinking. I am 9 months out from my FIRST D-Day. She is only about 6 weeks out. Cut her some slack. Now is NOT the time to be breaking out your list of complaints. Now is the time to know that she needs YOU to be an ADULT and the shoulder to cry on that she really needs right now. And sometimes you will try to be there and she will push you away. That is b/c the hurt is so large, so all-emcompassing that she is afraid that if she leans on you, you will move away and let her get hurt all over again. So she pushes you away to stand on her own two feet. That is called self-preservation, man. She is hurting like hell, and you seem to be more concerned with your disappointments than with her hurt.

 

Can't be like that. Step back. Look in her eyes. Take a good look at the pain in those eyes. The pain that your actions put there (notice I did not say YOU put there). Know that she is looking to you to make it better, but its hard when the person that hurt you is also the person that can help you heal.

 

If she is backing out of counselling, let her. BUT, go yourself alone. Do not talk about her. Talk about you. Your expectations no matter how outrageous. I know you have some, we all do. And then, listen to the counsellor.

 

Sorry for being so long winded. I hope something I said helps you in some way.

[Hard2Think]

Thanks for yo my your understanding. Yes, I'm venting here because I'm NOT justifying my actions to my wife when she vents at me. I let her say what she needs to and only mention the reasons when she explicitely asks "why?" - which she hasn't in a while. And even then I don't say she caused me to do it. I simply say that I felt lonely at the time and I let myself get embroiled with someone else when I really shouldn't have. That's pretty much it.

 

But I guess her rejecting me is understandable, but hard because that's what I went through for years already. It's like a wife-beater beating his wife for having an affair - only now he feels justified doing it because she had an affair. And so does everyone else.

 

While I don't feel justified - I really had only three choices:

 

1) Live with it

2) Divorce

3) The A

 

Looking back, I'm not sure which would have been the best. I simply could not get throught to her about our problems no matter what I tried.

 

 

You're stereotyping somewhat. This is not exactly true. I certainly know what it's like to be emotionally rejected over and over and over again- thus my infidelity.

 

According to Willard Harley (of marriage builders) if any one of our top emotional needs is not met- of which he says it's affection for women and sex for men, that most people- even highly religious and moral people, will find it hard to keep from cheating. That some who are extremely moral will resist but many fail. I consider him to be a pretty good authority on the subject considering he's one of the best known marriage counselors in the world.

 

I think that some of us are being a little hard on H2T because we've never walked in his shoes.

 

I have so I know where he's coming from.

 

Yet (here is my 2 x 4) you're still in recovery H, and it's probably natural to feel this way. There's some entitlement there- which is probably what is setting The Wife on fire.

 

It took me a very long time to get the fact that I had no right to do what I did. No matter what my H had done, he still did deserve more from me than this, and so did my children. I'm almost three years out of my affair and divorce and I've only in the last few months come to real terms with that.

 

This is your place to vent- and I understand that. I also give you credit for trying to mend your marriage- showing up- and at least trying MC. At some point though, you need to decide- either you're going to stick it and suck it up or you're not. Only you can decide if it's worth it or not or if you can do that.

 

LJ gave you good advice about being reactive to her emotions. Perhaps it would be good to focus on that??

[hotgurl]

I honestly don't know what caused my wife to start being this way. It did begin with the children - particularly with the second one. That was about 8 or 9 years ago. It just got progressively worse over time.

 

Maybe you're right. She may have had an unknown reason for being this way. It looked to me like she did this because that's her temperament and she didn't see how destructive it is. Just because I asked her many times to please tell me what's wrong doesn't mean I didn't deserve it. I should have been a better guesser. Maybe I'l get therapy to find out why I can't seem to read minds like a good husband should.

 

Ok mister sarcasim I know you are frustrated but maybe there is something else going on that she doesn't feel comfortable talking to you about. Maybe she is depressed. A lot of relationships get in trouble after the kids show up. The intamacy and closeness gets swept away by the everyday crap. Also a lot of women focus on the children and not the marraiage.

 

Also you make a lot of assumtions about your wife. She may do the same thing. The communcation between you two just plain sucks.

[NoIDidn't]

Thanks for your post!

The last past of your message is indeed very helpful. Thank you for that. I will do my best to continue to be as supportive as I can with her until she decides to keep me or divorce me. That insight into how she feels right now is a good reminder for me .. Thanks again.

 

H2T,

With this being your post, I don't feel too entitled to talk about my part in my M. I hope I am not being too hard on you. But here is my part since you are interested. I made more money and thought nothing of degrading him with that fact. I am very harsh with my words at times, something I am still working on and I wounded him in ways that I am now ashamed of. I come from a background of single, strong, and extremely independent women, and didn't always take his thoughts into consideration in my actions. I tried to control him, since I have abandonment issues. I did not see the need to show him that I appreciated him, b/c sometimes I just didn't.

 

But I love him and wish I could take the pain I inflicted on him away.

 

Also, if I may - I think you have far from admitted your part in the marital problems. You admit denying him sex, but then you blame him for that as well. I really am surprised to what extent many women there are, not just you, who don't realize how damaging it is to deny sex and affection to their husbands for an extended period of time.

 

This is an assumption on your part concerning me. I did not deny my H sex ever. He denied ME. Practically from day one of our marriage. I wanted to cheat on him, but just couldn't find the right guy - being picky and all. I went without sex for so long in our marriage, I thought that he was GAY!!! LOL!!! And if he posted here, he would tell you the same. He turned me away repeatedly, so I know a little something about being rejected sexaully. I can tell a story that would just make about every man say, "what an idiot" about my H. But I will simplify it:

 

I would cook small but sensual dinners and dress in my finest lingerie, waiting for him to get home to the surprise. Candles lit and all. He would walk through the door, turn on the lights, thank me for dinner (since he saw it out), then ask me WHY I was dressed like that, pick up his plate, go sit in front of the TV, turn it on, and then, ask me what was wrong with me.

 

I think I know something about being rejected sexually. Please know that I am not condemning you, I see your humanity just like mine and my H. You just need to give it some time. Last year, before my H had even gotten into an A, I gave our relationship a two year deadline. If nothing changed, I was making plans to leave. Then I found out that he was cheating at the end of the year, and I had to change my timeframe. Too much emotional unheaval to just up and leave. But now things are better than they ever were.

 

I really do think that your W loves you. I have to go get my boys from school now, so I gotta go. But I just know that she loves you. Give her some time. Don't push the physical too much. Just be there, quietly. She needs you right now. She really does.

[a4a]

Also, if I may - I think you have far from admitted your part in the marital problems. You admit denying him sex, but then you blame him for that as well. I really am surprised to what extent many women there are, not just you, who don't realize how damaging it is to deny sex and affection to their husbands for an extended period of time.

 

.

 

 

well I realize it and have been on the denied end of it. It also sucks when a H will not meet a W's needs.

 

I was not trying to attack you, but show you that you cannot keep a scorecard any more if you want your M to work. You have to let the past go just like your wife will eventually have to let go of the fact that you had affairs..... see how that works..... you really need to let go first tho.

 

How can you expect to walk into this with this big rock of hate and resentment and expect it to work. Get rid of it. New start.

 

It does not matter if she beat you with a stick everyday, that is not an excuse for an affair.

 

.... if you want to move forward you have got to quit dwelling on how evil she is. Start looking for solutions instead.

 

My guess is if someone came up to both of you and called your wife an evil whore bitch from hell you would defend her. Why would you defend her?

[Ladyjane14]

I've got to throw you a life-ring here, H2T... and remind everyone that you're not enjoying good communications within your marriage right now. Because of your recent D-Day and the pain your wife is in, you're uncomfortable bringing your resentments to her and instead.... you bring them to us here at LS.

 

That beats the heck out of bottling them up, but you might want to let us know when you're venting. That way, we won't beat on you too hard with the 2x4's!

 

These folks are right, you know. You've got to STOP the "negative framing". You've got to be patient and work issues out in MC. You've got to stop letting yourself justify your decision to cheat. And you've got to START really empathizing with your wife.... walking a mile in her shoes. So many times, you've posted something your wife said or did.... and I identify like alot of folks here do, because I'd have probably done the same.

 

Your resentments are HUGE.

But, I have trouble accepting that your wife is such a bad person. There are NONE of us who are perfect and who don't make mistakes. And some of the issues that you are harboring resentment for in the marriage, like the lack of sexual fulfillment, are almost UNIVERSAL in long term relationships. Almost ALL of us go through it.

 

You can always choose to cash it in and divorce, you know. You can make that decision TODAY if that's what you really want. But.... if you're counting on finding another relationship that's NOT going to present you with any problems, your best bet is to stay SINGLE.

 

Sure OW kissed your ass.

That's not unusual for OWs. She was in the infatuation stage and so were you at the time. What more.... she knew she was competing for your affection. Your wife didn't have the benefit of that particular knowledge at the time, did she?

 

Infatuation doesn't last though, and I think you KNOW that. Eventually, things simmer down in every relationship. We ALL take our partners for granted now and then. We ALL make mistakes. We ALL say things we don't really mean or act in an insensitive way.

 

Do you really think that if you dumped your wife and family, you wouldn't be looking at the same problems or variations of them five years from now? 'Cause if you do.... think again. If you're a 'Romantic' and you believe that people in love are always good to each other.... it's time to embrace reality. We're not always nice to each other. Even the most close and loving partners have occasional bouts of withdrawal and drifting.

 

MC is going to help you alot. But if you can't put your resentments behind you at some point... you're spinning your wheels trying to reconcile. It can't be done.

 

Sooooo.... it's BIG PICTURE time. Spend some time thinking about what you want out of life. Visualize it. Are you going to sit at a separate table from your wife when you attend your children's weddings? Will you be welcome at the hospital when your grandchildren are born? Will there be somebody to hold your hand when you're sick and it's your time? Can you really stand the thought of YOUR wife.... sharing her life, her body, and all these things I've mentioned, with somebody else and NOT with you?

 

Are you willing to raise another man's children while your own are being raised by some other guy? :confused:

 

Like I told you. You have TODAY. Make the best use you can of it. Don't dwell on all these things that are gone and in the past. You can't change them, and they won't matter to you anymore *IF* you can recover the marriage. A recovered marriage is NEW. It's not the same old crap you had before unless you become complacent and settle for it. This is something you BOTH have power over.