I'm the MM and I love my OW - now what?

[FlyingHigh]

Anyway, communication - on BOTH sides, not just hers - is the root of the issue, and that is what you'll need to focus on in MC. NOT this nonsense about she doesn't care about whether your needs are met. OF COURSE SHE DOES.

 

If you keep framing it that way in your mind, H2T, you will continue to breed anger. Which is only useful if you're planning to use that anger as yet another exit strategy

 

Well said serial muse.

 

Comminication is usually the number one root of marital probelms.

 

I'm seeking assurances far too soon and I really shouldn't. I haven't asked her for any of those reassurances, since I know that pressure is the very last thing she needs right now on top of everything else.

 

H - Remember what I said being a "new day?" Take this advice to heart. I think you'll find that it might help you let go your wanting to control certain outcome. You already know you can't. So don't even try.

 

So...just breathe....and take it easy.

[serial muse]

Muse -

thank you for saying in a nice way what I was so frustrated I could not come up with the words to say.

I am still frustrated so I appreciate so much you saying what I am apparently incapable of.

Lighthouse

 

no worries, LH - it's as you (or FH?) said earlier - this thread seems to really tap into a deep emotional well for people. i've refrained many times over the past month or so from posting because i couldn't be sure i wasn't just working out my own frustrations. and yet there are things that should be said, so it's not good to refrain altogether.

 

it's just an emotional thread.

[FlyingHigh]

It's not doing H2T any good digging up the past. This stuff has been dealt with on here, and right now what's more important is the NOW.

I'm in complete agreement with you. But, the past "can be" a good predictor of the future. It depends on each individual.

 

In H2T's case, there's a "pattern" in the way he's handled each scenario with his W. What he needs to figure out is WHY?

 

The more positive and helpful suggestions we all give him to help fix his marriage is the goal here, not to shove in his face the OW, the past etc...

While I agree with you, there's also a pattern here that might be worth noting. People who have replied, their initial posts emphatized with him, followed by positive suggestions and ecouragement to hang in there. Then, as the saga continued, the same people who were considerate in the beginning slowly became frustrated in their struggle to "knock" (so to speak) some senses into H. No differenct in our approach if we had a friend going through the same thing. Similar to identical advice have been repeated that fell onto a seeminly deaf ear. So after awhile, people got tired of of H2's ongoing saga.

 

In terms of bringing up the "past", I think our past is a pretty good indicator of the future no matter how minute it may be. H's ongoing reference of his "past" of unmet emotional needs will do him no good. What's done is done. What he now has to realize that the "pattern" by which he operated on in dealing ongoing conflicts with his W must change. It's predictable. No different if you were to go to war. You can't expect to win a war if your moves are predictable. He needs to "adjust" his tactics with his W. For starters, be honest. Second, don't assume or second-guess. The outcome for doing either is already predictable. Third, he needs to ride WITH his W's emotional roller coaster ride. Best way to do that is, to simply put himself in her shoes.

 

And.......just breathe.....stay calm.....

[lighthouse]

About the past. I know that, for me, when I have made mistakes in my life it is helpful, and extremly painful, to go back and look at what I have done - the good, the bad, and the ugly. I am certainly not, in any way, trying to change H2Ts mind that his marriage is worth saving (because it is H2T). I just think that if you go back and read all of that stuff you see a lot. Including the patters that Flying spoke about, the control issues that H2T doesn't think that he has, and the way that he, as the wife said, frames his w in a negative way.

I think that going back and seeing that may help him to see how he approaches things as they are happening which is something that he doesn't appear to see now. To me the fact that he denies being controlling, which makes sense as he has no clue that he is doing it, and gets angry when we "make assumptions" is absolutely mind-blowing. But then again, I didn't live through this with him. Like I said I came in and "watched a movie" whereas he was the actor (and I didn't say bad guy).

 

H2T - I don't think that you are a bad guy. I think you made some bad choices but that doesn't make you a bad person. I also have made and continue to make bad choices. I smoke for example and every time I light a cigarette I don't think about people with lung cancer or emphysema. But when I am around people who are sick it sure makes me think - and slow down A LOT on my smoking. It is stupid to compare apples to oranges but they are both mistakes and if seeing people who are sick makes me realize what an idiot I am for smoking then I was hoping that re-reading the way that you say things may make you realize some things about yourself.

 

WWIU - Obviously I am not saying that Dazed and H2T are the same person. However, after following your advice to H2T and re-reading the post I still stand by my statement. You must have thought that it was at least somewhat important as you were the one who suggested it!

LH

[FlyingHigh]

About the past. I know that, for me, when I have made mistakes in my life it is helpful, and extremly painful, to go back and look at what I have done - the good, the bad, and the ugly.

LH - that's all it takes in order to learn your own life lessons. You acknowledge that smoking is bad, but you're aslo considerate to not do it in front of someone who suffers from emphysema. Some smokers either don't care or are not recognizance of others. It's like a smoker who checks into a hotel and doesn't bother to ask for a smoking room and smokes in it, unaware that the next guest who might suffer from emphysema is now in a room that smell like smoke. As a non-smoker this has happened many times.

 

As for H2T, he has yet to learn his life lessons. Yes, H, you do. Here's why.

 

You had an opportunity to learn a valuable lesson in your first A. But you didn't. Now, you're having to re-learn it again with this second affair.

 

H2T - Until you figure out why the first affair happened and learn to understand yourself a little better and how all this evolved, you will be faced with the same life lesson again.

 

Here's something to think about: WE ARE A SUM PRODUCT OF OUR PAST.

 

Don't be too quick to reply. Take a day off from LS and think about it. You might discover that how we approach life on a day to day basis is a reflection of our upbringing. This is one of the things that IC and MC usually try to unravel to get a better understanding of why you are there in the first place.

 

Stay calm...and.....breathe....

[lighthouse]

Flying -

First, I try to be as considerate a person but particularly a smoker as possible. The only time in my life where I didn't feel very considerate (at least in terms of smoking) is when I was at a bar (this summer) and a woman who was about 10 months pregnant told me that smoke bothered her. I wanted to say "pregnant women in bars at 1 am bother me" but anywho that is neither here nor there.

What I was wondering is, and I love it cause I say the same thing and it cracks me up, but with the "breathe" are you a yoga instructor or a lamaze coach? LOL

LH

[HomeDespot]

Someone pointed me to loveshack and this thread. I spent about three days reading this thread and some of the others before finally registering so I can add my 2 cents! There is something I don't quite understand. Maybe you some of you can help me out. This is the situation as I read it. I may have missed something or misinterpreted a few posts. It's hard for me to say. So please feel free to call me on any errors.

 

1) The OP was having an affair and he though at the time he wanted to leave his wife.

2) For several years his wife has refused to meet critical emotional and physical needs.

3) She was unresponsive or at least unsympathetic to his expression of his desire to improve the situation.

4) The "OW" shows up and he faces the wrath of both her and his spouse.

5) He had a choice to make and he chose to stay with his wife.

6) His wife is not sure she wants to keep him.

 

These are the hard facts that I see them. What I mean by hard facts, is those things that if the OP is being truthful, are simply what transpired. Now I know I'm going to make a real stretch here, but let's just assume for argument's sake that the OP has represented these facts correctly. Let's assume that he's telling us what actually happened and that he's relaying how his wife really was during the last half of their marriage. Let's also assume that he really has been a good husband like he said. Nobody is perfect, but his claims don't seem all that outlandish. I mean that he provided like he said he did and that he was continually trying to be the loving husband he says he was.

 

I'm not saying that I know that this is true or not, but this is a basically anonymous message board and we really cannot know what is true and what is not. So just for the sake of this post, let's assume that he's telling it like it is. So allow me to be the Devil's Advocate for the OP for a change:

 

Would some of you change your stance if you kew that what he said was 100% true? Thankfully my wife and I get along marvelously well, but my older bother is currently married to a woman that seems eerily similar to the OP's wife. Maybe that clouds my judgement here like with many of you here. So please bear with me sometimes.

 

However, I need to be frank and say that his situation is appalling. I would find it hard to believe that he has any possibility of fixing anything this marriage until that very issue is brought to the forefront. Unlike many of you here, I honestly think that the OP's wife is more responsible for becoming a betrayed spouse than he is. If the OP was honest, then she knowingly created this situation. Maybe she thought he would never cheat, so she felt no threat. Or maybe she though that he was not so serious in his complaints. I really do not know. But it seems clear to me that she let him know that nothing was going to change for the better. And maybe it never would.

 

The reasons I'm hearing for the wife's lack of desire to meet the most basic needs of her husband sound like nothing more than the same tired old excuses I've heard in many message boards that touch on this problem. I apologize if I'm being too drastic, I most certainly do not want to offend any wives here. But I think that if a normal, healthy husband is put in a position where he's not allowed to have sex for extended periods of time with his wife, he will most definitely be far more tempted to cheat than if he's not, regardless of his initial moral position on the subject. The wife forcing him to remain in a state of quasi-celibacy when he morally has no choice but to be intimate with her is being incredibly cruel. I would hold the exact same belief if the wife was the victim of neglect and she strayed from the marriage.

 

I find it almost surrealistic that some of you think he needs to surrender himself to years of browbeating now that he has been found out when in reality it looks as though he chose the only realistic alternative that would keep his family together without him literally going insane with frustration. You may argue that he was deluded if he thought he would get away with it for any period of time, but people no longer think straight anymore when it comes to the affairs of the heart.

 

The prevailing position is that having an affair is inexcusable no matter what the circumstances are. This seems like a very narrow-minded view indeed because it completely disregards the realities that exist in a marriage like the one described in this thread. I can agree that a man is a scoundrel that should be divorced if that man had an affair purely because he could. If his wife was doing her part in the marriage, which isn't always easy, and he went and did this anyway, then I can understand your ire. I'd be joining you as well. But not in this case. I would argue that a wife who neglects her husband, like the OP's wife may have, has also broken her vows to the marriage. Maybe it's not as obvious as the blatency of an affair, but it's just as bad, if not worse. It say it may be worse because it's so dishonest. The wife gets to pretend that she's loyal when she is not, thus leaving her husband in the confusion that the OP is in.

 

I know he could have chosen counseling, but it seems hard to believe that this would make his wife suddenly feel passionate for her husband. I'm quite sure that if the OP and his wife divorce, she will have sex many times a week with her new man in the beginning of their relationship. I would doubt very highly that she'll ever feel too tired to please him and that the new man will never hear the excuses for no sex that the OP has been apparently getting for some time now. This is an assumption of mine, of course. But I'm quite sure that you'll agree that this is the pattern you'll find within the whirlwind of just about any new relationship. Otherwise the relationship will be short-lived indeed.

 

So why would she give to another man that which she won't give her husband? I cannot believe that she did not know that her husband was lacking sex and love. I know some of you have gone as far as suggesting that the OP see a counselor to find out why he was unable to communicate this to his wife more clearly .

 

I have to make some assumptions, and one of them would be that his wife is intelligent enough to understand the spoken language. If he were to have told her he was intending to buy her a new diamond ring, he would not have to repeat the sentence twice. If he were to tell her he just got a $32,867.98 bonus from work, you can be sure that she would remember that amount to the penny three months later. But suddenly she doesn't hear him when he says that he feels neglected, unloved, and undersexed in the marriage? I simply cannot believe that. I really cannot. I'm surprised any of you do.

 

If the OP has told us the truth, then I believe that he's being crucified very unjustly here. He appears to love his wife and for that reason I hope he gets his marriage straightened out. I also hope his wife has room in her heart for a little compassion for her husband whom she has so far treated very, very poorly. I'm particularly saddened by the fact that he had to bury his father by himself. If that is not betrayal, then I don't know what is.

[NoIDidn't]

Unlike many of you here, I honestly think that the OP's wife is more responsible for becoming a betrayed spouse than he is. If the OP was honest, then she knowingly created this situation. Maybe she thought he would never cheat, so she felt no threat.

 

You actually believe this? She MADE him cheat on her?! Unbelieveable.

 

The reasons I'm hearing for the wife's lack of desire to meet the most basic needs of her husband sound like nothing more than the same tired old excuses I've heard in many message boards that touch on this problem. I apologize if I'm being too drastic, I most certainly do not want to offend any wives here. But I think that if a normal, healthy husband is put in a position where he's not allowed to have sex for extended periods of time with his wife, he will most definitely be far more tempted to cheat than if he's not, regardless of his initial moral position on the subject. The wife forcing him to remain in a state of quasi-celibacy when he morally has no choice but to be intimate with her is being incredibly cruel. I would hold the exact same belief if the wife was the victim of neglect and she strayed from the marriage.

 

You too, assume much. An emotionally healthy husband does not cheat or rationalize cheating. No where can it be proven that H2T's W admitted to not caring to meet his needs.

 

Cheating on someone when you have a moral obligation to fidelity, if your vows stated so, is not cruel then by your estimation. Interesting.

 

I have to make some assumptions, and one of them would be that his wife is intelligent enough to understand the spoken language.

 

That is an insult to his W and he should call you on it. Emotions are very difficult to convey with language, otherwise we would have no use for tears or laughter. And one need not be "intelligent" to understand those.

 

I also hope his wife has room in her heart for a little compassion for her husband whom she has so far treated very, very poorly.

 

Compassion in marriage is a two way street. Your post is based on your assumption that he is telling the absolute truth. So you, like we others, are certainly entitled to your opinion.

[whichwayisup]

WWIU - Obviously I am not saying that Dazed and H2T are the same person. However, after following your advice to H2T and re-reading the post I still stand by my statement. You must have thought that it was at least somewhat important as you were the one who suggested it!

LH

 

I actually thought that H2T could understand his own wife better, what she will be feeling, reacting after finding out about the affairs and the recent OW. I thought Dazed's insight and how he handled things could be a good influence for H2T...I didn't look at it as who represented whom in the sense of personalities etc.....

[veronese]

I am probably wasting my time posting anything on this thread because until you are at the stage where you can see things in a different light, you won't understand the significance in what people say. Going purely on all that you've said on this forum you seem to take a little longer than most to move through the emotional phases commonly experienced in situations like yours.

 

However, I'm going to give it one last try.

 

H2T (and may I say your name suits you well!), I vaguely remember you saying that some time after your wife was told about your [second] affair she said she hadn't realised your marriage was in such bad shape to have caused you to go off and shag another woman, sorry, have an affair. And if I remember correctly you were quite aghast at her comment, given that you'd told her time and time again beforehand that you weren't happy but somehow your wife had completely missed all those times you raised your concerns.

 

Out of interest did you ever tell her that if she continued treating you in a way that made you unhappy you would go **** another woman?

 

Did you tell her that things had got so bad you would be sticking your dick in another woman the following day after 12 years of being faithful and loyal to her?

 

Cos if you did I expect your wife would have registered the severity of your dissatisfaction with the way your marriage had been and how neglected, hurt, rejected and unloved you were feeling. Even if the silly bitch was that dismissive of you, surely given the number of times you apparently tried telling her and weren't heard you presumably can't be too great at communicating yourself and might need to get some help in making yourself heard in future.

 

As for your ongoing doubts and questions about the uncertainty of your future, I thought it might help you to remember your wife has doubts and fears of her own. For instance: (and these are only suggestions of questions she may have and you may have already answered)

 

1. Anything and everything about your OW. Her name, age, height, weight, hair colour/length. How often and where you had sex together. What other activities did you share with her. Was she good in bed / better in bed / had been in yours and your wife's bed? Was it love? When and where did you meet? On and on and on, but you get the general idea.

 

2. Was she your first lover?

 

3. How could you not only **** another woman again and again and again, how could you even **** someone at all?

 

4. How could you deliberately and knowingly behave in this way knowing it would not only hurt your wife, but more importantly, hurt your kids once it came out?

 

5. How could you lie so easily? Why didn't you feel enough guilt to stop you cheating and lying to a wife you apparently had always loved? Why didn't the thought of your kids being raised in a broken home outweigh the benefits of an affair.

 

6. How can you ever be trusted when you were busted by the OW and not by any suspicious behaviour on your part which your wife was already picking up on?

 

7. Do you love your wife, had you ever loved your wife? How could you cheat on someone if you loved them?

 

8. Will you ever be happy with your wife and will she be capable of meeting your needs well enough in the future when she hasn't in the past?

 

9. Was it her fault you cheated on her?

 

10. Will she ever feel secure and safe again with you? Or will you one day cheat on her again?

 

H2T, it will take BOTH of you to work through the problems in your marriage if it is to be repaired and healed and one you both enjoy being in. BOTH of you H2H. I know you think you're trying hard but with respect sir, you're going to have to try a damn sight harder than you are.

 

WWIU, as you know I have a lot of respect for you but I'm not sure this is necessarily true:

 

"but it may not be helping by making him feel bad. The more positive and helpful suggestions we all give him to help fix his marriage is the goal here, not to shove in his face the OW, the past etc..."

 

It may not help him if what he reads makes him feel bad, but then again, maybe feeling bad is exactly what he needs? I don't know what's best for him or anyone else on this site either. But I don't believe it's helpful to only post replies that won't make the OP feel bad about themselves.

 

When I posted my story here I couldn't believe how critical and hurtful some posters could be towards me. I was taken aback by their lack of sympathy and was outraged at any suggestion that I may have been also to blame for my situation. I had no idea there were people out there who could react so negatively towards ME????!!!!! Especially when it was clear as clear could be that MY HUSBAND was the baddy here, not me. The very notion quite horrified me!

 

But in time I went back and read the thread again and could see things in a different light. I saw sense in posts I'd previously thought were bollocks. I realised that at that time my pain and emotional fragility prevented any hope of me being able to absorb and understand what was being said to me. Even the most ridiculously extreme opinions usually had something within them that I could learn from (like how unbelievably biased and unpleasant folk can be!).

 

Point is I genuinely believe that we can learn and be helped by ALL types of viewpoints. Sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind.....

 

Finally I have a request for you H2T. Can you please stop including all these lengthy quotes by other posters in your posts? This thread is obscenely long without you repeating posts all the time. If you want to address someone in particular you could say so in the post title or include a brief excerpt to illustrate your point.

 

veronese

[FlyingHigh]

Flying -

First, I try to be as considerate a person but particularly a smoker as possible. The only time in my life where I didn't feel very considerate (at least in terms of smoking) is when I was at a bar (this summer) and a woman who was about 10 months pregnant told me that smoke bothered her. I wanted to say "pregnant women in bars at 1 am bother me" but anywho that is neither here nor there.

What I was wondering is, and I love it cause I say the same thing and it cracks me up, but with the "breathe" are you a yoga instructor or a lamaze coach? LOL

LH

 

LH - your considerate personality shows right through your words and story.....

 

Yep, that pregnant woman in a bar at 1 in the morning is a tragedy in itself.

 

No, I'm not a yoga instructor nor have I taken a class in yoga. But when I'm feeling tensed and stressed taking deep breaths and just closing my eyes work. Trying to get H2T to do something that may help him even if it's in front of his computer....

 

And you know each time I tryped "breathe"....I actually found myself taking a deep breath and it's relaxing....

 

Okay, everybody.....BREEEEEATHE.....

 

Thanks for the giggle...

[FlyingHigh]

Someone pointed me to loveshack and this thread. I spent about three days reading this thread and some of the others before finally registering so I can add my 2 cents! There is something I don't quite understand. Maybe you some of you can help me out. This is the situation as I read it. I may have missed something or misinterpreted a few posts. It's hard for me to say. So please feel free to call me on any errors.

 

1) The OP was having an affair and he though at the time he wanted to leave his wife.

2) For several years his wife has refused to meet critical emotional and physical needs.

3) She was unresponsive or at least unsympathetic to his expression of his desire to improve the situation.

4) The "OW" shows up and he faces the wrath of both her and his spouse.

5) He had a choice to make and he chose to stay with his wife.

6) His wife is not sure she wants to keep him.

 

These are the hard facts that I see them. What I mean by hard facts, is those things that if the OP is being truthful, are simply what transpired. Now I know I'm going to make a real stretch here, but let's just assume for argument's sake that the OP has represented these facts correctly. Let's assume that he's telling us what actually happened and that he's relaying how his wife really was during the last half of their marriage. Let's also assume that he really has been a good husband like he said. Nobody is perfect, but his claims don't seem all that outlandish. I mean that he provided like he said he did and that he was continually trying to be the loving husband he says he was.

 

I'm not saying that I know that this is true or not, but this is a basically anonymous message board and we really cannot know what is true and what is not. So just for the sake of this post, let's assume that he's telling it like it is. So allow me to be the Devil's Advocate for the OP for a change:

 

Would some of you change your stance if you kew that what he said was 100% true? Thankfully my wife and I get along marvelously well, but my older bother is currently married to a woman that seems eerily similar to the OP's wife. Maybe that clouds my judgement here like with many of you here. So please bear with me sometimes.

 

However, I need to be frank and say that his situation is appalling. I would find it hard to believe that he has any possibility of fixing anything this marriage until that very issue is brought to the forefront. Unlike many of you here, I honestly think that the OP's wife is more responsible for becoming a betrayed spouse than he is. If the OP was honest, then she knowingly created this situation. Maybe she thought he would never cheat, so she felt no threat. Or maybe she though that he was not so serious in his complaints. I really do not know. But it seems clear to me that she let him know that nothing was going to change for the better. And maybe it never would.

 

The reasons I'm hearing for the wife's lack of desire to meet the most basic needs of her husband sound like nothing more than the same tired old excuses I've heard in many message boards that touch on this problem. I apologize if I'm being too drastic, I most certainly do not want to offend any wives here. But I think that if a normal, healthy husband is put in a position where he's not allowed to have sex for extended periods of time with his wife, he will most definitely be far more tempted to cheat than if he's not, regardless of his initial moral position on the subject. The wife forcing him to remain in a state of quasi-celibacy when he morally has no choice but to be intimate with her is being incredibly cruel. I would hold the exact same belief if the wife was the victim of neglect and she strayed from the marriage.

 

I find it almost surrealistic that some of you think he needs to surrender himself to years of browbeating now that he has been found out when in reality it looks as though he chose the only realistic alternative that would keep his family together without him literally going insane with frustration. You may argue that he was deluded if he thought he would get away with it for any period of time, but people no longer think straight anymore when it comes to the affairs of the heart.

 

The prevailing position is that having an affair is inexcusable no matter what the circumstances are. This seems like a very narrow-minded view indeed because it completely disregards the realities that exist in a marriage like the one described in this thread. I can agree that a man is a scoundrel that should be divorced if that man had an affair purely because he could. If his wife was doing her part in the marriage, which isn't always easy, and he went and did this anyway, then I can understand your ire. I'd be joining you as well. But not in this case. I would argue that a wife who neglects her husband, like the OP's wife may have, has also broken her vows to the marriage. Maybe it's not as obvious as the blatency of an affair, but it's just as bad, if not worse. It say it may be worse because it's so dishonest. The wife gets to pretend that she's loyal when she is not, thus leaving her husband in the confusion that the OP is in.

 

I know he could have chosen counseling, but it seems hard to believe that this would make his wife suddenly feel passionate for her husband. I'm quite sure that if the OP and his wife divorce, she will have sex many times a week with her new man in the beginning of their relationship. I would doubt very highly that she'll ever feel too tired to please him and that the new man will never hear the excuses for no sex that the OP has been apparently getting for some time now. This is an assumption of mine, of course. But I'm quite sure that you'll agree that this is the pattern you'll find within the whirlwind of just about any new relationship. Otherwise the relationship will be short-lived indeed.

 

So why would she give to another man that which she won't give her husband? I cannot believe that she did not know that her husband was lacking sex and love. I know some of you have gone as far as suggesting that the OP see a counselor to find out why he was unable to communicate this to his wife more clearly .

 

I have to make some assumptions, and one of them would be that his wife is intelligent enough to understand the spoken language. If he were to have told her he was intending to buy her a new diamond ring, he would not have to repeat the sentence twice. If he were to tell her he just got a $32,867.98 bonus from work, you can be sure that she would remember that amount to the penny three months later. But suddenly she doesn't hear him when he says that he feels neglected, unloved, and undersexed in the marriage? I simply cannot believe that. I really cannot. I'm surprised any of you do.

 

If the OP has told us the truth, then I believe that he's being crucified very unjustly here. He appears to love his wife and for that reason I hope he gets his marriage straightened out. I also hope his wife has room in her heart for a little compassion for her husband whom she has so far treated very, very poorly. I'm particularly saddened by the fact that he had to bury his father by himself. If that is not betrayal, then I don't know what is.

 

GOOD LUCK to you, HomeDepost!

 

As intelligently as you've written, you would also have read what "assumptions" have done to this M.

 

Leave the thesis of "assuming" with quantum physics. The probability of assuming human behavior cannot be measured because everyone's make up are unique and different. Even if the issue of which you are attempting to assume is based on ONE ---INFIDELITY, people's reactions will differ for the simple reason that everyone IS different. You CANNOT measure emotions unless you have them hooked up and wired in some lab for research. There are too many variables (family, childhood, personality type, etc) to be considered which cannot be measured scientifically.

 

It's ashame that you spent so much time deliberating your case based on WHAT IF's. Heck, you could start your own thread simply by your assumptions!

 

Do you have a big bottle of Advil? You may need it....

[Mz. Pixie]

Hey all...

 

It's not doing H2T any good digging up the past. This stuff has been dealt with on here, and right now what's more important is the NOW.

 

 

I was just about to post the same thing!! I can see you beat me to it WWIU.

 

By the way, H- you said earlier that divorcing would relieve you from the guilt of your A?? No, it won't. You think it will, but it certainly didn't do it for me- and you don't strike me as cold and unfeeling- which is what you'd have to be to feel no guilt after the divorce.

[Hard2Think]

I didn't mean it that way. I guess I was more distraught than usual that day and I thought the D would be a way for me to just do the right thing by my wife and get the hell out of her life. In a weird way, it would reduce my feelings of guilt in a way penance maybe does. But all that is crazy, I know.

 

I was just about to post the same thing!! I can see you beat me to it WWIU.

 

By the way, H- you said earlier that divorcing would relieve you from the guilt of your A?? No, it won't. You think it will, but it certainly didn't do it for me- and you don't strike me as cold and unfeeling- which is what you'd have to be to feel no guilt after the divorce.

[Hard2Think]

HomeDespot (great moniker BTW ),

 

Thanks for your long and carefully worded posting. I appreciate your support ..! But I think it may bit a bit extreme to say that she's more responsible for the affair than I was.

 

Your post did give me some clarity on a few things. And most of all, I appreciate you not accusing me of lying my relationship with my wife.

[Hard2Think]

Veronese,

 

Thanks for your post. The questions you listed are exactly the ones my wife has asked me and I have tried to answer as well as I can - no matter how many times she asks.

 

If any answer doesn't fit her current belief - she'll invariably reply "So what else are you going to say?" For example, last night she asked me if I miss OW. I told her "No" which is the truth. Her reply was "What else are you going to say? I don't even know why I bothered asking".

 

So that's the part that makes the Q&A sessions a bit difficult for me. But I make sure I'm 100% available for those sessions even if she doesn't believe any of my answers.

 

You say I should be trying harder than I am. Could you please tell me what I should be doing that I'm not already doing? I'm trying to do whatever I can - maybe I'm out of ideas.

[Hard2Think]

I've been using this board for three things thus far. One is to get the POV of others who have been in my situation so that I can relate it to what I'm going through right now. I don't personally know anyone who has that I can speak to about it.

 

I've also used this board as a sort of daily journal of sorts. It helps me just to write down what has happened and to interject my feelings in to it.

 

And finally, I feel that my relaying this information as I see it may help someone else. Maybe a BS will see what goes thorugh the mind of a WS. Maybe a WS, will feel a little better knowing that they're not alone in their feelings. Maybe a soon to be WS, will look at this and decide it's not the way to go.

 

I know some of you get angry with me and maybe have decided to stop posting here. All your feedback has been valuable to me - but I'm mired in a huge amount of mental turmoil while trying to keep it together for my wife and the kids. All of my doubts and fears are expressed here to you only - not to my wife. She hasn't heard me express a single doubt about the future of the marriage or of us - even if I do sometimes feel that way. I've kept my anger at her treatment of me here on LS rather than expressing to her. I have brought up that issue a few short times, but without the anger I show here. I think that was possible in very large part to this thread.

 

LadyJane, Mz. Pixie, and others who have been through this have done alot to calm me down when I was distressed about the rapid descent of the rollercoaster ride - as I'm going thorugh now. The reassurances that everything is following a normal course is like gold to me. Some of you have given me ideas that turned out to be incredibly constructive - such as meeting my wife and kids where they were on vacation, post D-Day. Some of you shocked me back into reality about my wife's feelings. All of it has been valuable.

 

Sometimes the harshness of you judgements of me make me want to censor my posts. But then I remind myself that I'm safe here because nobody actually knows my name nor where I live. And so I catch myself and I post what I actually feel - even if that'll get you angry.

 

So please don't get too impatient with me. This is a harder time than you can imagine and unlike what you may think - the issues are not black and white. But your posts are very valuable to me - and I hope maybe the whole thread will help others somehow.

[FlyingHigh]

H2T,

 

If you feel that no amount of pleading will make your W see you in the way you want to be understood in your thread, have you ever thought of sharing with her this site as a last resort?

 

All right folks, let's debate on this...

 

Here's my take.

 

1) it will show your W your inner thoughts. Women understand and can relate to emotions quicker. This is just how we're wired.

I've also used this board as a sort of daily journal of sorts. It helps me just to write down what has happened and to interject my feelings in to it./

She hasn't heard me express a single doubt about the future of the marriage or of us - even if I do sometimes feel that way. I've kept my anger at her treatment of me here on LS rather than expressing to her. I have brought up that issue a few short times, but without the anger I show here. I think that was possible in very large part to this thread.

 

What you've written are your "raw emotions".

 

2) shows your wife that you're TRYING to reach out and make amends with her, and that you understand and "willing" to ride with her through her emotional roller coaster triggers.

The reassurances that everything is following a normal course is like gold to me. Some of you have given me ideas that turned out to be incredibly constructive - such as meeting my wife and kids where they were on vacation, post D-Day.

 

3) it may help her "understand" where you're coming from and how her lashing out affects you, forcing her to look at herself a little closer.

4) it may bring the two of you to look at this as the beginning of a "recovery" session.

 

The only "drawback" to doing this is:

 

1) You will NOW have to be honest with the first affair, that it was more than EA which she may eventually find out anyway.

 

2) You probably won't be able to come back and post.

 

This is a drastic step only to be considered if everything else fails. I also suggest that when you consider doing it, give her the space to go through it. Tell her you love her so much that you don't know how else to express yourself without her lashing out at you....and then give her your thread and say...you don't want to give her this site, but maybe it's the only way to convince her of how you truly feel about her and your M.

 

Then disappear for a little while.....go to Home Depot, but stay away from the 2x4s...

 

Have you two started MC?

[Hard2Think]

FH,

I've thought about that - but that really has to be a last resort. I'd hate for her to see the vents I've posted here. And I think the whole part where I expressed "love" for OW will be way too hard for her to take.

 

Yes, we went to a joint MC session and 2 individual ones. We're doing another joint one on Wednesday, but she's very skeptical and hesitant to go. She told me that she's going to give him "one more chance" and that's it.

[lighthouse]

H2T -

At least she is willing to go to MC and try. Hopefully the MC (who I think has worked with you more than her) can show her that you have been expressing remorse to him as well and then she won't think it is some line that you are feeding her.

I wish you the best.

LH

[serial muse]

...i really wouldn't do that. i understand the motivation for it, but i can just about guarantee that she'll latch onto the negative things long before the positives. and there are a lot of negative things H2T has said about her in this thread. those are the ones that will stick in her head (not to mention the thread title). logically, one would hope she'd read the whole thing and balance it all out, but that just won't happen (speaking as someone whose private journals have been read by more than one ex).

 

maybe someday, when their relationship is repaired, knowing his thought processes on here would be a way to bring them closer. but now is really not the time. it won't help. on second thought, i do guarantee it.

[FlyingHigh]

FH,

I've thought about that - but that really has to be a last resort. I'd hate for her to see the vents I've posted here. And I think the whole part where I expressed "love" for OW will be way too hard for her to take.

quote]

That's why I emphasized as a "last resort" when all fails.

 

Yes, we went to a joint MC session and 2 individual ones. We're doing another joint one on Wednesday, but she's very skeptical and hesitant to go. She told me that she's going to give him "one more chance" and that's it.

Mention this to the MC how she feels. Mc will probably want to know why and help her understand that a few MC will not help the M. Hopefully, the MC may suggest that your W seeks IC if she hasn't started. Encourage her to get some.

[Hard2Think]

FH,

 

Yes, I have. I think that at this stage of the game, my wife hasn't commited to making this work yet. She's still trying to decide whether to stay or leave and has told me just that.

 

She's also mentioned that she doesn't see why she has to do anything since it was I who screwed up. She sees going to MC and an effort on her part whereas she doesn't see why she should, since again - it's I who made the mistake.

[FlyingHigh]

FH,

 

Yes, I have. I think that at this stage of the game, my wife hasn't commited to making this work yet. She's still trying to decide whether to stay or leave and has told me just that.

 

She's also mentioned that she doesn't see why she has to do anything since it was I who screwed up. She sees going to MC and an effort on her part whereas she doesn't see why she should, since again - it's I who made the mistake.

Keep acknowedging that...yes...even if you've heard it a thousand times. When you acknowledge her, say it this way..

 

"I can't blame you for feeling that way. I probably feel the same. I can't force you to stay in this marriage. And I know your decision to stay is still up to you. But we have nothing else to lose that we may have not already lost. But just know that this is the best way I know how, right now, to let you know that I am realllly trying and to find out once and for all if you and I have enough love to rebuild our M. I know that I love you with all my heart and more so than ever. I also know that if we stay, neither one of us want the "old" marriage back. And it may even help you once and for all if you still want me."

 

We still have our kids. Even if we don't have a marriage when this is all over, maybe we can find a way to be better people for our kids."

 

What this does is that you're not pleading for you marriage. She now has to take part in it. It'll make her THINK and rethink.

 

Hopefully this works....good luck. And if it doesn't, we'll just have to come up with different ideas....

[JamesM]

If you feel that no amount of pleading will make your W see you in the way you want to be understood in your thread, have you ever thought of sharing with her this site as a last resort?

 

It would be the end of all hope for H2T because not only has he said many negative things, he has admitted to a second affair here...which I believe she knows nothing about. Besides, then he can never confide, advise, or criticize anyone without wondering if his wife has or will see it.

 

H2T, this is a roller coaster ride that none of us can join you on. However, I believe that this Board now serves as a place for you to get feedback on your feelings, her statements, and your future. That should be kept private even after the two of you should either reconcile or split. Because in both cases, this thread will serve only a negative purpose as far as I can see.

 

However, if you were to write a letter stating much of what you have said in this thread but leaving out that which is detrimental to your possible reconciliation, then maybe that would be a possible choice.

 

Good luck.