I'm the MM and I love my OW - now what?

[Ladyjane14]

My wife did not act loving therefore I assumed she didn't love me. It was as simple as that. She hit me with verbal jabs all the time and seemd to hate spending time with me. The ultimate humiliation for me was one day when we were making love and I could tell this was "duty sex" by her attitude. When I touched her .. she got goose pimples. Not the good ones. She didn't like me french kissing her, she didn't want me touching her breasts because it "tickles". That combined with other events I already detailed in this thread painted a picture for me that showed I was just not someone she loved. Thus my surprise at her reaction. Maybe it was the same for your ex.

 

Your best bet is to read some of the lopsided-libido threads on the Marriage board. Type in words like "female libido" into the search function here at LS to pull them up.

 

You've taken all the problems in your marriage so very personally, as if they were all actions taken in direct response to you. But most of the examples you've cited are COMMON in long-term relationships. People don't always treat the ones they love as considerately as they should... and that's just universal.

 

It's not right, but we most often hurt the ones we love. We trust them on an emotional level in a way we don't trust others. We trust that they'll accept us, warts and all, even when we're having really AWFUL day... in a way that other people don't.

 

It's like how your kid might act like a perfect angel in school where he's socially uncomfortable, and then come home and act like a little demon, burning off all his stress and frustration on the ones who love him best. He trusts you to love him anyway... he doesn't trust his teacher like that. At home, he can let his hair down. But you don't assume he doesn't love you do you?

 

Let's look at the "goose bumps" example. You assumed your wife's lack of interest was all about you. But unlike a man, a woman can have sexual intercourse while experiencing a state of non-arousal. The down-side is that even though she may have consented to it, she may still end up feeling sort of molested by the intimacy of it. Speaking from experience, there were many times in the past that I gave consent, but just wasn't into it. It's like having your gynocologist suddenly taking liberties with you. It's an intimacy that you're just not prepared for. The negative reaction comes out as impatience, but the real struggle is to keep from balling your hand up into a fist and smacking your partner off of you. THAT's how unpleasant it is.

 

More often than not, the lack of arousal has NOTHING whatsoever to do with your partner. He's probably doing things you might have really liked before... but if you're just not into it, NOTHING is going to please you.

 

When you look at it from the reverse angle as in a man losing his erection during intercourse.... would you expect a woman to assume her husband doesn't love her anymore just because he's experienced a bout of impotence? There's a double-standard there. Guys are met with understanding... women are met with accusations of frigid bitchiness. A woman can give consent, hope for the best... and fail to 'get it up' just like a guy can if you look at it in terms of arousal.

 

I've said this before, but.... when a woman's Energy Ship is sinking, the libido is one of the first things over the rail, like so much ballast. And while it's true that in your particular case, your wife wasn't prioritizing the use of her energy wisely... this too can be common for a woman her age.

 

Oftentimes, in the mid-30's a woman is trying to redefine herself in terms of who she is when she's not wearing one of her many hats... wife, mother, daughter, sister, friend, employee. She's come to an age where she feels she's arrived at adulthood, and looking around wondering if THIS is all she's ever going to amount to. She may use up quite a bit of energy in this endeavor, never realizing how she's slipping in her 'wife' role.

 

These are common things in marriage and long-term relationships. Not something you take personally, but rather something that you get on board and work through together.

 

You've been told time and again that "assumptions" are detrimental to the marriage. All in all, there are LOTS of things that could've been interfering in your sex life... and not all of them having to do with YOU.

 

Your wife has made the same mistakes YOU have regarding assumptions and expectations. She assumed you were content. You weren't. That's why she needs to go to MC with you despite the fact that she feels YOU are the one who's made the problem. She's got to learn to break some of her previous patterns, open up her communications, and work through the issues one at a time.

 

You CANNOT fix this alone. She needs to understand that you were walking through this world unable to feel the love that she had for you. Some of that is YOUR problem, because you made assumptions. Some of it is hers, because she made assumptions of her own.

 

Say just that to her.... "Honey, I love you and you know I'm so sorry for hurting you. But I'm in over my head and I just can't fix this alone. I need your help".

 

It's time to start talking about your feelings with her. Don't wait for once a week MC to clue her in on where your head is. Use some of these Q&A sessions you've been having to slip her some info. NO ACCUSATIONS... just verbal descriptions of your feelings at the time. Disengage if you lose your patience during discussion. Admit to feeling overwhelmed and take a time-out if you need to.

 

Read The Sex-Starved Marriage and see if you can get a better handle on of some of the issues that cause lopsided libido, and how this may have affected your ability to feel loved within the relationship. And most importantly.... get a feeling for the idea that you are NOT in the lopsided-libido boat all alone. Thousands upon thousands of couples deal with this. It's actually more rare for long-term couples to have their libidos in pretty good sync.

 

 

p.s. Your wife NEVER needs to see this thread. There's too much venting and ranting here. It's not dishonest to hold back on YELLING at your mate when you're frustrated, is it? Well... this is kind of the same.

[Hard2Think]

Thanks, LJ -

 

Before I say anything - I hope you know that erection loss isn't always and is often not due to not being aroused. A guy can, and often is aroused without getting erect, which is a colossal source of frustration. Not that it's ever happened to me, of course, but I've heard ..

 

The sex part is confusing - after all she was very aroused and no longer feeling "icky" when we were in our hysterical bonding stage. So there is something going on, like you said. I just don't know what. It's a bit difficult not to take personally.

 

At this point, I just want to tell her that I've decided I'll stay with her no matter what she does from now on. I'm afraid I may have implied that the marriage won't last in the future unless she changes, and I don't want her to feel that pressure. So I figure I'll commit to staying with her even if she reverts back to the way she was. I haven't said that to her yet because I want to be sure I'm able to do it. But I may well tell her that. Her treatment of me was no justification for the A and I should maybe have warned her beforehand. But now, not only will I not have an A, I won't divorce her either. I'll choose option 1 - live with it.

 

Hopefully she'll still see this whole thing as a wakup call and maybe want to change things for the better on her own without the threat of another A or a divorce.

 

It's a long shot - but it's the best option I can think of now.

 

Say just that to her.... "Honey, I love you and you know I'm so sorry for hurting you. But I'm in over my head and I just can't fix this alone. I need your help".

 

 

If I say this to her .. she will say 'You should have thought of that before screwing that woman'. That's her mindset right now. Tha being said - she has agreed to MC 'one more time'. So we'll see.

[Ladyjane14]

.. she will say 'You should have thought of that before screwing that woman'. That's her mindset right now.

 

Then you say... "I wish so much that I could take that decision back, and that I had talked to you and made you understand what I was feeling inside. But I can't. I made a horrible mistake, and I can't fix it alone. Will you help me?"

 

 

 

I agree that taking divorce off the table is a good first step in marital recovery. I don't agree that YOU should be the only one to make it though. I don't think you should threaten divorce, but I don't think you should let her be the only one off the hook either. If anything, you might suggest that you BOTH take it off the table for a pre-set time... say, 6 months or something like that. Use a POJA type agreement, ala marriagebuilders. If you need more info, type into your browser: the policy of joint agreement, marriagebuilders.

 

She might not want to agree to that. You just tell her that you're having alot of anxiety working 'under the gun' and feeling fearful and sick all the time. Ask her... "For the sake of our family, and for what we've meant to one another... Can you give us 6 months of working together on this?"

 

If she doesn't say 'yes', back off and let her think it through. She might still come around.

 

 

I do understand what you're saying about male impotence, I just wanted to put it in a context where you could see that a lack of arousal doesn't always correlate to negative feelings about a partner.

 

I really do think that if you can get a better understanding of the breakdown in sexual fulfillment, and possibly disengage from the idea that it was directed at you personally... you'll be able to let some of the old resentments go.

[Hard2Think]

LJ,

 

Interesting response to my wife's potential retort. I'll use it. I did suggest that she put off any divorce decisions for 6 months. I already told her I had no intention of divorcing now or ever and would only do so if she makes the request.

 

But she thought 6 months was too long. She said she didn't want to wait that long only to find this marriage wouldn't work.

 

So right now, yes .. I'm living under the threat of divorce. I suppose I'll give it the 6 months even if she doesn't and then take it from there. I'm pretty sure she'll make a decision one way or the other by then.

 

There have been some interesting actions on her part lately. While she now refrains from touching me or letting me touch her. She gave me a hug at one point spontaneously in the kitchen while I was making her tea. She also held my hands at the movies yesterday. And last night, as we were walking the dog and talking, I turned to my side and noticed she was giving me a loving smile and was reaching to stroke my neck. I started to reach back to her, but she pulled back.

[Ladyjane14]

I did suggest that she put off any divorce decisions for 6 months. I already told her I had no intention of divorcing and would only do so if she makes the request.

 

But she thought 6 months was too long. She said she didn't want to wait that long only to find this marriage wouldn't work.

 

How long ago did you have this discussion?

 

If it's been awhile, throw it back out there. Print of the POJA article, and consider showing it to her when you do. Tell her you don't want to manipulate any agreement that she's not "enthusiastic" about, but that it would mean alot to you if you could find some middle ground together.

 

(If it's been awhile since you read through the Basic Concepts section over there, you might take this opportunity to read through again. You'll feel more 'in control' when you're utilizing the MB principles daily.)

 

You might broach the subject by sharing your feelings of anxiety and the effect they're having on you physically. People who are living with alot of stress often have difficulty sleeping, weight loss/gain, increases in blood pressure, gastric distress, etc. If you are symptomatic in any way... that's a helluva good opening for the discussion.

[Hard2Think]

The discussion was yesterday. I just think that if she agrees because I played the physical illness card, that she'll feel manipulated. I also won't have the comfort that comes from a more voluntary agreement on her part.

 

In other words, I need jer to agree because she actually wants to work on us - not because she doesn't want my stomach ulcer to be on her conscience.

 

It's only been six weeks. All this crap may still be too fresh on her mind. She was crying yesterday as she recounted the events of D-Day in excruciating detail.

[FlyingHigh]

I'm glad to see that the proposed debate generated more feedback and suggestions.

 

H2T - you've received and continue to receive an array of suggestions and hopefully you take them to heart and not "too" personally.

 

Good luck.

[whichwayisup]

FH,

 

Yes, I have. I think that at this stage of the game, my wife hasn't commited to making this work yet. She's still trying to decide whether to stay or leave and has told me just that.

 

She's also mentioned that she doesn't see why she has to do anything since it was I who screwed up. She sees going to MC and an effort on her part whereas she doesn't see why she should, since again - it's I who made the mistake.

 

Your wife didn't choose to cheat, you decided that...And you've owned up to it, taken responsibility for your actions. She MUST see her part in why the marriage wasn't good. It takes two, and yes, the cheating is one thing, but the problems, her issues and the way she was IN the marriage has to be noted...By her. Until she sees this, and stops blaming you - Things won't change.

[FlyingHigh]

The discussion was yesterday. I just think that if she agrees because I played the physical illness card, that she'll feel manipulated. I also won't have the comfort that comes from a more voluntary agreement on her part.

quote]

H2T - buddy, you're still trying to "control" an outcome. Don't do it because the result usually isn't a positive one.

 

In other words, I need jer to agree because she actually wants to work on us - not because she doesn't want my stomach ulcer to be on her conscience.

....and here you again...with the "I need her to agree"...

 

H- you CAN'T MAKE her to agree to anything unless she's willing and READY. She's thinking about working things out, but she hasn't surrendered to the idea of wanting it because it's TOO SOON! She's NOT ready! Period.

 

It's only been six weeks. All this crap may still be too fresh on her mind. She was crying yesterday as she recounted the events of D-Day in excruciating detail.

There you go! That's your answer! It's too darn soon for you to be expecting too much. The fact that she even considered going to MC IS a start.

 

Remember, her emotions are pretty darn fragile right now. The fact the she hasn't thrown your clothes out in the lawn from D-day or kicked you to the curb, is a sign that she hasn't come to terms with what she wants. Believe me, she is in agony!

 

H- you gotta stop second-guessing your W AND you gotta stop second guessing yourself. Stop assuming what you think what she might do. I don't know what it will take to get you to realize how detrimental this is in your goal to recover your M. But you can't continue doing this and expect a positive outcome.

 

Good luck.

[Ladyjane14]

The discussion was yesterday. I just think that if she agrees because I played the physical illness card, that she'll feel manipulated. I also won't have the comfort that comes from a more voluntary agreement on her part.

 

In other words, I need jer to agree because she actually wants to work on us - not because she doesn't want my stomach ulcer to be on her conscience.

 

It's only been six weeks. All this crap may still be too fresh on her mind. She was crying yesterday as she recounted the events of D-Day in excruciating detail.

 

You're right... "it's only been six weeks". Still, I think you should tell her how you're feeling as a matter of keeping her informed if nothing else. If the limbo is wearing on you and keeping your tummy upset... let her know.

 

This is kind of like how floored you were by the idea that she would cry and be devastated by the fact that you cheated. Same thing in my situation.... My husband couldn't BELIEVE how upset I was, because at the back of his mind... he didn't think I really cared about him.

 

When you let your wife know how upset you are physically, you're letting her know that what she says and what she thinks is soooo IMPORTANT to you that it has a physical effect. In the same way that her "devastated" response to YOU was important, your response to HER is important. (I hope that makes sense to you... I'm beat to sh*t tonight and uncertain of my clarity. )

 

I'm not saying that you put pressure on her for an agreement to 'take divorce off the table'. I just want you to SHARE your feelings with her, and not be sitting around acting all stoic like some kind of whipping boy.

 

This is New Beginnings Communications. If you're going to make ANY assumptions.... assume she doesn't have a crystal ball that sees into your soul.

[Hard2Think]

Ah - ok I get it. That does make sense. Thank you! Yes, I'll try that.

 

You're right... "it's only been six weeks". Still, I think you should tell her how you're feeling as a matter of keeping her informed if nothing else. If the limbo is wearing on you and keeping your tummy upset... let her know.

 

This is kind of like how floored you were by the idea that she would cry and be devastated by the fact that you cheated. Same thing in my situation.... My husband couldn't BELIEVE how upset I was, because at the back of his mind... he didn't think I really cared about him.

 

When you let your wife know how upset you are physically, you're letting her know that what she says and what she thinks is soooo IMPORTANT to you that it has a physical effect. In the same way that her "devastated" response to YOU was important, your response to HER is important. (I hope that makes sense to you... I'm beat to sh*t tonight and uncertain of my clarity. )

 

I'm not saying that you put pressure on her for an agreement to 'take divorce off the table'. I just want you to SHARE your feelings with her, and not be sitting around acting all stoic like some kind of whipping boy.

 

This is New Beginnings Communications. If you're going to make ANY assumptions.... assume she doesn't have a crystal ball that sees into your soul.

[Ladyjane14]

Bear in mind.... I don't have a whole lot of HUGE expectations for this "sharing of feelings" to make an immediate difference, but I do have a friend who's currently divorcing her husband after infidelity because he NEVER really convinced her of his sincerity. He never had a REAL answer for why he cheated, and he utterly failed to help her understand his feelings before, during, and after the affair. What's worse, he never found a way to TRY to make it up to her.

 

Unfortunately, there's recompense due.

That sounds like some possibly HORRIBLE retribution, but really.... it's as simple as SHOWING your spouse how you feel. My husband was successful, and he is rewarded with love. Hers wasn't. He's getting divorced.

 

Look at it like this... she needs to see into your head like it was made of GLASS. That way, she's secure that there are no more secrets, no hidden surprises. If you don't share enough of your feelings for her to really guage where you're at emotionally... she's liable to think you're hiding some kind of agenda still, or worse... just sucking up and giving her lip service.

[lighthouse]

H2T -

Regarding MC and her possibly not wanting to continue. I don't know how she would respond to this (or how any BS would) however for me, just as a person, if my SO were to say something like "I understand that you don't feel comfortable going to MC or IC but I think that it is important. I love you and care about this marriage so even though I want you to go desperately it is your choice but please know that if you don't go then I think that I will continue to go because I love you and want our marriage to be strong." Or something like that.

Does that make sense?

This way you are showing her that you are taking responsibility, you want to work things out, and this is important to you. An added benefit is that it might possibly make her feel left-out (not a very good word but I think you understand what I am saying).

Granted, there is also the possibility that she will say "oh good, this was all your fault anyway."

If she does say that then let it roll off of your back and continue to go. Even if, in the worst case scenario it doesn't work out you will probably learn a lot of good stuff about yourself but I bet that if you continue to go she will as well.

LH

[Hard2Think]

My wife was ranting at me again this morning. This was at my prompting since I wanted her to vent. I get uncomfortable with the silence.

 

After her rants, I read your post. I just got up immediatey from here and shared everything with her. I told her about when I get angry and why. I told her how badly I want to reach out and just touch her. I told her how all her indifference and anger now reminds me of the past 8 years. I told her how the worst thing in the world I can imagine besides the death of our kids is that she not love me anymore. And I told her how painful the past 8 years have been ..

 

Unfortunately we had to interrupt the conversation because my son awake and it was morning routine beginning again . But she said "Let's talk about this later" and she seems to have softened up at least for the moment.

 

I think now she's more than ready to hear about the sorry state of our marriage pre-A. In fact, I think wants to hear it because I think she needs to know that this didn't all happen in a vacuum. I think she needs to know that I wasn't just out chasing skirts. I say this because I saw her reaction as I spoke of that just a while ago. She was riveted. She was listening without shaking her head and interrupting. I will tell her all - it is time ..

 

So thanks again for a great insight, LJ! It feels like the right thing to do.

 

Bear in mind.... I don't have a whole lot of HUGE expectations for this "sharing of feelings" to make an immediate difference, but I do have a friend who's currently divorcing her husband after infidelity because he NEVER really convinced her of his sincerity. He never had a REAL answer for why he cheated, and he utterly failed to help her understand his feelings before, during, and after the affair. What's worse, he never found a way to TRY to make it up to her.

 

Unfortunately, there's recompense due.

That sounds like some possibly HORRIBLE retribution, but really.... it's as simple as SHOWING your spouse how you feel. My husband was successful, and he is rewarded with love. Hers wasn't. He's getting divorced.

 

Look at it like this... she needs to see into your head like it was made of GLASS. That way, she's secure that there are no more secrets, no hidden surprises. If you don't share enough of your feelings for her to really guage where you're at emotionally... she's liable to think you're hiding some kind of agenda still, or worse... just sucking up and giving her lip service.

[Mz. Pixie]

Big breakthrough.

 

Just do not try to blame her. Frame it as "When you would _______, it would make me feel _____________"

 

The conversation could quickly turn to you vs her- you do not want that.

[Hard2Think]

I agree with you and I'm very cognizant of that risk, which I'll avoid. In fact, when I spoke to her this morning, I made sure to repeat that what I did was wrong and I should not have done it regardless of the situation.

 

My goal is not to blame her for what I did. But my goal is for her to fully understand what the marriage was like for me before and during the A. I get the feeling that my contriteness and unwillingness to "blame" has maybe given her this illusion that the marriage was pretty good before the A and that I was just looking for a piece of a**.

 

Apparently she was home watching "Divorce Court" on TV. And the judge was presiding over (wouldn't you know it) a case involving infidelity. I guess the guy got his OW pregnant. The judge gave some lecture to the BS about how this guy is a bum and that history repeats itself and how in the 25 years on the bench she learned that "once a cheater - always a cheater".

 

So my wife got on about how she already knows I'll do this again - it's just a matter of time. She may stay with me for the kids she says, because if it wasn't for them - she'd be out the door today. In the meantime, she says, she won't let herself be in a position to let herself be hurt by me again.

 

I told her this morning that I was sorry. Not that I was caught. I'm sorry that she has to face the pain of the A every day. I'm sorry that I made her feel the pain she's feeling. I'm sorry that I lied to her to carry on the A. I'm sorry that she feels embarassment in front of her friends. I'm sorry for making her feel strange when I touch her now because it reminds her of me and the OW. I'm sorry she has images of me and the OW in her head. I told her all this and I mean it.

 

I have told you all and I'll say it again. The marriage was terrible. I don't even know why I'm fighting so hard for it now. I was pissed for some reason last night as I thought about it again. I'm pissed because while I verbalized my vows to remain faithful - I think I had the right to expect that she would be available to me emotionally and sexually to a reasonable extent. Where did she get off expecting me to be celibate? Why was it OK for me to spend some of the best of my sexual years jacking off in the bathroom while I'm married? Why did I have to take rejection of simple affection during the day? Why? What did I do that was so bad?

 

I know some of you think I'm some kind of delusional narcissist - but I was a damn good husband to her. I put her first always and I was happy to do it as long as I thought it made her happy. I'm not going to bore you with the list of things I do and do for her and how I was with her. Suffice it to say, I was certainly too good to her to be treated the way I was.

 

Did she actually trust me like she says? Or was it more that she trusted that I was too much of a chicken**** to risk our marriage for the sex and affection I wanted? Was it that she figured I was stuck anyways, so why worry so much about my needs right now?

 

And she has the nerve to say that it's all an excuse of mine? That I'm just looking for a reason?

 

I'm angry enough at this point to tell her to go f*ck herself. I was at this point already before A and about a month ago. I was quit for the above reasons. And now that she's like this - I'm twice as quit. Let her find someone else and see how her attitude goes over on the outside.

 

I'm sorry - I'm venting. I'll be OK this evening if and when we speak about it ..

 

 

Big breakthrough.

 

Just do not try to blame her. Frame it as "When you would _______, it would make me feel _____________"

 

The conversation could quickly turn to you vs her- you do not want that.

[Mz. Pixie]

I have told you all and I'll say it again. The marriage was terrible. I don't even know why I'm fighting so hard for it now. I was pissed for some reason last night as I thought about it again. I'm pissed because while I verbalized my vows to remain faithful - I think I had the right to expect that she would be available to me emotionally and sexually to a reasonable extent. Where did she get off expecting me to be celibate? Why was it OK for me to spend some of the best of my sexual years jacking off in the bathroom while I'm married? Why did I have to take rejection of simple affection during the day? Why? What did I do that was so bad?

 

Did she actually trust me like she says? Or was it more that she trusted that I was too much of a chicken**** to risk our marriage for the sex and affection I wanted? Was it that she figured I was stuck anyways, so why worry so much about my needs right now?

 

And she has the nerve to say that it's all an excuse of mine? That I'm just looking for a reason?

 

I'm angry enough at this point to tell her to go f*ck herself. I was at this point already before A and about a month ago. I was quit for the above reasons. And now that she's like this - I'm twice as quit. Let her find someone else and see how her attitude goes over on the outside.

 

I'm sorry - I'm venting. I'll be OK this evening if and when we speak about it ..

 

It's okay, I get it. You know, I still get angry when I think about the fact that my ex did what he did to me, but yet I'm the one publically branded with the scarlet A. Because in my eyes, he wasn't being the husband he vowed to be, and he committed adultery against me with various different "idols" during our marriage- his hobbies, his job, etc. It was just that I did it with a physical person that made it taboo.

 

Were you actually celibate or were you just getting less than you wanted?? I mean, I don't count two weeks without nooky as celibate- but two months or six months or more yeah.

 

Sometimes people do not get the impact that having an emotionally unavailable spouse can do to you. The one you long for just isn't there for you no matter what you do or say. The problem is in how we handled it.

 

I think I posed this question before. Is it possible that you've put her up on a pedestal your entire marriage and that you've kind of held her above yourself because of her actions?? Like she was the unattainable goal??

[Hard2Think]

Maybe Idid hold her up too high - I'm not sure. It's something I did think about.

 

I say I was celibate because it was once every 3 to 4 weeks - sometimes less. But it wasn't just the frequency. It was the quality. We would literally be done sometimes in less than 2 minutes each time because she wanted to hurry up. She didn't want to kiss much, no touching her breasts, no nothing. Just missionary and let's go. She would orgasm quickly (at least she acted like she did) and then that was it. Nothing I could do would spice things up.

 

Ironically, the best sex we've had in years was after this D-Day for a while. Now, of course, there is none.

[Ladyjane14]

I have told you all and I'll say it again. The marriage was terrible. I don't even know why I'm fighting so hard for it now.

 

Well if you don't know why you're fighting... I can't imagine anybody else does either.

 

Leave then. The keys to your cage are right there in your hand.... same place they've always been. You aren't without options. You weren't without options before.

 

 

Based on what you've said here in your posts.... I really do think you've personalized quite a bit of your wife's behavior. You say you love her, which implies that she has lovable characteristics. But then... you do a 180 and paint her out to be some kind of heartless shrew.

 

WE don't know her... so which is it?

 

If she's not a heartless shrew, then she's just another human being who makes mistakes and is sometimes careless when dealing with other people's feelings. Most folks are stubborn, hard-headed, and view the world through their own perspective. Those are as common as any other of our human traits. If that's the case... then yeah, I think you've personalized the hell out of her behavior.

 

And if she IS a heartless shrew, completely self-centered and consistantly uncaring of other people's feelings... then what is it that you're hoping to accomplish by staying with her? People can change their behavior certainly, but they don't usually change who they are at the most elemental levels.

[Hard2Think]

LJ,

 

I don't have a complicated answer except that I love her and I still hold some hope that we can actually have a giood marriage in the future.

 

If she loves me like I love her - then I'll keep trying for as long as it takes.

[Ladyjane14]

Well then... if you love her, there must be something there that's lovable.

 

Honestly, it sounds to me like the things that have kept you unhappy in the marriage are things that CAN be addressed. Unfulfilled ENs are a problem in everyone's marriage to some degree or another.

 

I don't remember if you read The Five Love Languages or not. Did you?

[Hard2Think]

Oh yes - of course, there is. It's how she has been with me that's the problem for me.

 

No I didn't read that one yet. I have read quite a few others up to now. I'll pick that one up, though.

 

Well then... if you love her, there must be something there that's lovable.

 

Honestly, it sounds to me like the things that have kept you unhappy in the marriage are things that CAN be addressed. Unfulfilled ENs are a problem in everyone's marriage to some degree or another.

 

I don't remember if you read The Five Love Languages or not. Did you?

[Ladyjane14]

No I didn't read that one yet. I have read quite a few others up to now. I'll pick that one up, though.

 

If you haven't read through The Sex-Starved Marriage pick up a copy of that one too.

 

Your wife might view it as accusatory that you considered yourself "sex-starved", but if she asks.... just tell her that you need to know if what you were feeling at the time was normal or not. Present it as a case of self-discovery in trying to figure out WHY you acted on it the way you did. That ought to take the heat out of it and hopefully she won't view it as finger-pointing.

 

If she DOES choose to view your perusal of the book as an accusation even after you've explained yourself... what a great opening for a discussion of unmet needs. It becomes an OPPORTUNITY.

[Hard2Think]

I did read that one. It was very insighgtful. I also read Dr. Laura's book which while controversial - is right on the money.

 

I know my wife well enough to know she'll take it badly if I hand her these books. I made the mistake of sending her a link to a marriage-builders site and she flew off the handle.

 

I think I may leave it somewhere where she can see it. She's not stupid, so she'll know I planted it there - but it'll take away the feeling that I, her wayward husband, is recommending readinG ANYTHING that would shed light on the subject.

 

If that doesn't work, then I'll do as you mentioned. So she may get mad - I'm used to it by now.

 

If you haven't read through The Sex-Starved Marriage pick up a copy of that one too.

 

Your wife might view it as accusatory that you considered yourself "sex-starved", but if she asks.... just tell her that you need to know if what you were feeling at the time was normal or not. Present it as a case of self-discovery in trying to figure out WHY you acted on it the way you did. That ought to take the heat out of it and hopefully she won't view it as finger-pointing.

 

If she DOES choose to view your perusal of the book as an accusation even after you've explained yourself... what a great opening for a discussion of unmet needs. It becomes an OPPORTUNITY.

[lighthouse]

Here is a strange idea and I don't know if it will work.

What if you were to start a new thread under a new name telling us all of this and then we could go from here and then she could read it?

Then of course you could come back and post as H2T as well.

I know it sounds crazy but I am trying to help you here H2T even though you think that I have been to hard on you I do care what happens to you and I only want the best for you.

Just an idea.

LH