I'm the MM and I love my OW - now what?

[Ladyjane14]

Veronese ..

 

I can't believe what you're saying. Did you even read your posts before hitting submit?

 

This guy has been treated like sh*t for years and you think the only logical explanation is that he must have been asking for it? IK mean, damn, women never take their husbands for granted, right? They never deny sex to their husbands for no apparent reason, right? The billion other posts by spouses in that very predicament are there because they all deserved it I suppose?

 

I'm sorry, but a wife of 16 years who throws her husband and dying father out of the house deserves a quickie divorce with no further discussion on the matter. That whole thing burns me up to no end whenever I read you people saying that she must have done this as a response to his mistreatment. What planet are you people from?

 

Hey ladies, if you learn nothing else from all the threads in this site, at least know this ; If you weaponize sex and use it to deny sex and love to your husband, if you make coming home after a long day at work just a further continuation of his personal hell, and if you think it's beneath you to be nice to him, then expect to be the BS in your husband's affair. It's plain and simple, just read for yourself. If some of these women knew what it's like to waste your life away for years in a stressful cubicle farm to keep the family comfortable, they would .. on never mind, I forgot. It's the husband's fault for not being romantic.

 

I don't think you have ANY CLUE, MarriedTard how difficult it is to live with an 'angry' man. Believe me... I'm in the BTDT club. An "angry man" is just about the least attractive thing on the face of the planet. Sexually, an "angry man" is the equivalent of a constant 'cold shower'.

 

A man who's having an affair, or feels justified in one.... is even more unpleasant that just the garden variety angry MM.

 

Regardless... this guy has a choice to make. He can either WALLOW in his resentments, or he can get off his butt and do something about them.

 

(Your "Hey Ladies" comment reeks of misogyny, btw. Nice. )

[Ladyjane14]

You're right. I'll work on that. It's just very hard to forgive when she can't acknowledge the fact that she's done it. She keeps saying that I exaggerate the severity of the way things were and that were not nearly as bad as I say

 

You can't eat a bear but one bite at a time.

There's not so much water under the bridge that you have no hope, H2T. It's just that you have to let the anger go in order to work on the problems. After that... it's just tackling one at a time until they're all resolved.

 

Remember too... it's going to take longer for her to fully "let her anger go". We're talking FRESH infidelity here. But there's no reason for you to be holding onto your anger when YOU KNOW it's only hurting your prospects.

[MarriedTard]

I don't think you have ANY CLUE, MarriedTard how difficult it is to live with an 'angry' man. Believe me... I'm in the BTDT club. An "angry man" is just about the least attractive thing on the face of the planet. Sexually, an "angry man" is the equivalent of a constant 'cold shower'.

 

A man who's having an affair, or feels justified in one.... is even more unpleasant that just the garden variety angry MM.

 

Regardless... this guy has a choice to make. He can either WALLOW in his resentments, or he can get off his butt and do something about them.

 

(Your "Hey Ladies" comment reeks of misogyny, btw. Nice. )

 

Gee, you're right! The guy really needs to put up with his wife's unbelievable crap with a smile! Otherwise he may (gasp!) seem unattractive to her. Why not buy H2T a formaldahyde jar to put his genitals in?

 

misogyny?! That's all you have to say? My, I sure hope I did make anyone feel uncomfortable.

[Hard2Think]

No - I agree with you. I will do all I can to let this go. My wife is seeing the MC for a one on one this afternoon. Then it's my turn on Thursday.

 

If it's anything like the last time, MC will make her angrier at me for awhile. Plus yesterday, we all went bowling together, the kids, her and I. She started to get cold during that time and then she gets a call from her good friend who has been advising her to leave me. She stepped out and had a long conversation while the kids and I finished a game.

 

From that time on, she's been angry with me.

 

You can't eat a bear but one bite at a time.

There's not so much water under the bridge that you have no hope, H2T. It's just that you have to let the anger go in order to work on the problems. After that... it's just tackling one at a time until they're all resolved.

 

Remember too... it's going to take longer for her to fully "let her anger go". We're talking FRESH infidelity here. But there's no reason for you to be holding onto your anger when YOU KNOW it's only hurting your prospects.

[a4a]

No - I agree with you. I will do all I can to let this go. My wife is seeing the MC for a one on one this afternoon. Then it's my turn on Thursday.

 

If it's anything like the last time, MC will make her angrier at me for awhile. Plus yesterday, we all went bowling together, the kids, her and I. She started to get cold during that time and then she gets a call from her good friend who has been advising her to leave me. She stepped out and had a long conversation while the kids and I finished a game.

 

From that time on, she's been angry with me.

 

 

when the MC digs down to the root of the problems of your marriage and stops just scraping the froth off the top she is going to have a huge awakening..... right now I am betting that MC is just starting to uncover the fact that there even was a problem that she contributed to in your M.

 

time...... time...... it is going to be a roller coaster..... she isn't even to the top of the first big hill of discovery yet... she is clueless to her actions and how much they hurt you..... it is coming tho so hold on tight.

[Ladyjane14]

I will do all I can to let this go....

 

You need some kind of 'mantra'. Something to help you remind yourself DAILY that you're in control of your own emotions and that you're NOT going to absorb them from others.

[a4a]

You need some kind of 'mantra'. Something to help you remind yourself DAILY that you're in control of your own emotions and that you're NOT going to absorb them from others.

 

 

May not be a bad idea to actually do this. I have one myself goes something like this:

 

I will refrain from stabbing him in the head with a fork as I know that is not a solution to this situation.

 

or the shorter version: A fork in the head will make him dead....but keep in mind he is good in bed.

 

:lmao:

[Hard2Think]

I sure hope you're right. I'm hanging on in hopes of that.

 

when the MC digs down to the root of the problems of your marriage and stops just scraping the froth off the top she is going to have a huge awakening..... right now I am betting that MC is just starting to uncover the fact that there even was a problem that she contributed to in your M.

 

time...... time...... it is going to be a roller coaster..... she isn't even to the top of the first big hill of discovery yet... she is clueless to her actions and how much they hurt you..... it is coming tho so hold on tight.

[veronese]

Veronese ..

 

I can't believe what you're saying. Did you even read your posts before hitting submit?

 

This guy has been treated like sh*t for years and you think the only logical explanation is that he must have been asking for it? IK mean, damn, women never take their husbands for granted, right? They never deny sex to their husbands for no apparent reason, right? The billion other posts by spouses in that very predicament are there because they all deserved it I suppose?

 

I'm sorry, but a wife of 16 years who throws her husband and dying father out of the house deserves a quickie divorce with no further discussion on the matter. That whole thing burns me up to no end whenever I read you people saying that she must have done this as a response to his mistreatment. What planet are you people from?

 

Hey ladies, if you learn nothing else from all the threads in this site, at least know this ; If you weaponize sex and use it to deny sex and love to your husband, if you make coming home after a long day at work just a further continuation of his personal hell, and if you think it's beneath you to be nice to him, then expect to be the BS in your husband's affair. It's plain and simple, just read for yourself. If some of these women knew what it's like to waste your life away for years in a stressful cubicle farm to keep the family comfortable, they would .. on never mind, I forgot. It's the husband's fault for not being romantic.

 

 

 

Umm, yes MarriedTurd, I did read my post, did you read yours? You seem a tad fractious if I may say so? Calm yourself.

 

What planet are we from? The same one as yours MTurd, maybe you should familiarise yourself with our common language?

 

H2T's wife didn't weaponize (?) or deny him sex, she just didn't give him as much as he would have liked. Could it be that she wasn't exactly tempted to have sex with Mr. Grumpy Bollocks, or maybe he wasn't that good at it? Who knows, we certainly don't.

 

Of course we now realise that if we don't give our husbands enough sex, attention, ego-stroking and pampering we'll only have ourselves to blame when they go and screw other women. Silly us. It's not the man's fault being unromantic, miserable, selfish, disloyal, majorly critical of immature. It's our fault for not pandering to his every need.

 

I'm not here to bash men in general, just men like you, Turdy, and H2T. We've only got one side of the story and the one we've got is riddled with loop holes.

 

According to H2T his marriage is lousey. He's very unhappy. His wife is a she-devil. He's made every sacrifice, allowance and effort to appease and please her for at least the last 8 years, he honestly can't think of any more he could have done.

 

His wife has reciprocated nothing. Has neglected, abused, and rejected him. She's screamed and shouted at him daily and he's taken every bit of her venom. Her behaviour towards his dying father was (if true) unforgiveable.

 

He tried and tried and tried some more but all his efforts were in vain.

 

So he had an affair.

 

Then he had another one.

 

Then he asked his wife for a divorce.

 

Then his mistress spilled the beans so he dumped her immediately and turned all his attention back to his wife (who he had always loved bizarrely, considering her personality disorder and his penchant for rampant sex with other women)

 

All his intentions to leave/divorce his wife to be with the OW were scrapped overnight. Incredible though it sounds he rid himself of his love for his OW decided to work on being forgiven by his wife, but only if she knew full well that the real problem in their marriage was her so she'd better sort her act out if she wants to hold on to him.

 

Yeah, I bet he looks irresistable in her eyes at the moment. Who wouldn't want a H like him who was so perfect he ended up shagging other women, asked for a

 

v divorce, and has a never-ending list of complaints about her.

 

And don't forget the fact that H2T stuck with his wife regardless, toiled on to keep the family together, never complained, only got abuse, until eventually his only option was to hang up his Mr. Perfect hat on a peg and put on his two-timing, lying, cheating Married Man cap instead. The one where he does what he wants, has as much fun and sex as he wants and couldn't give a toss what happens to the women he plays with. Gosh MarriedTurd, who can blame the poor bastard? His wife was the one who made him do it.

 

Don't be such a wanker Turd, it's time H2T stopped deluding himself and decides what he wants damn fast. As we all know though, there's no guarantee he'll feel the same in the morning.

 

I'm sorry I've lost my patience with this thread but there have been too many question marks around this guy's head for me to play along with it.

 

veronese

[veronese]

veronese, do you think you might be projecting some of your anger with your h onto h2t?

 

 

I guess it's possible but I don't think so. I'm not actually that angry with my H so all I have said is directed solely at H2T and his sidekick TheTurd.

 

I am a little crabby today though, haven't had any sleep for a while so my patience is in short supply.

 

I'm the stereotypical pain the bum, naggy, stroppy wife today and my poor husband is going to go without his massage, foot rub, four course dinner and a marathon sex session to top it off. Will I never learn?!!

 

v xx

[lover's rock]

Aren't there question marks in every married man's head? His thread shows confusion and guess what? Every married man has it. They don't always voice it and like H2T did say, he's voicing his frustrations here but not to his wife. Wise thing. It would only feed controversy.

 

But has anyone that keeps a journal read back sometimes? How conflicted do we sound to ourselves? Married life is conflicting in itself. Sometimes you want to stab the person you married...then they bring home dinner for you both so you don't have to cook tonight. And suddenly they are thoughtful and nice. Then tomorrow he gets pissed because he thinks YOU lost his favorite socks. Then you want to stab him again. It's cycle.

 

Of course there are going to be question marks around his head and he's going to be pointing fingers just as she is pointing fingers. He's going to say "you were cold and unloving" and she's going to say "but you slept with someone else". Honestly his affair is a symptom...not the problem. Her actions are symptoms...not the problem. The point of marriage counseling is to get down to the problem. You have to sort through the guff and garbage to get to it because let's face it, most of us get up in the morning and lie in the mirror so much that we hide our own garbage from ourselves.

 

If you're looking for an apology from your wife, H2T, I'm sorry but you aren't going to get that right now. She has to see it. See her problems. See her issues. You can't show her either. It has to dawn on her as TIME goes along with counseling. Right now she thinks the problem is the affair. As anger and hurt dwindle, she'll see how the problem is deeper than that.

 

You think that the problem is her. As hurt dwindles (since you said you weren't angry anymore), you will see how the problem is deeper than that.

Honestly you BOTH are the problem. And as time goes along you'll stop pointing fingers at each other and pointing them at yourselves. Then you'll be able to look at each other with new eyes.

 

Good luck and God's grace on your dealings.

[veronese]

I understand how erratic our minds can be in these situations. It's not H2T's rapid changes of mind that surprise me as such, it's more his ability to stop having feelings for people (or start having them) that bothers me. I know men compartmentalise their emotions skillfully, but the way H2T felt at the start of the thread (in love with OW), then a week later felt nothing for her at all was unusual.

 

My other bone of contention is the way he can reel off all that is wrong with his wife and at length, but fails to acknowledge any areas in depth where he sees the imperfections in himself.

 

Until he had the first affair he claims to have been bloody perfect. How can someone so good and kind start having affairs to get his needs met when it seems so out of character?

 

I maybe unduly suspicious here but whatever the history in their relationship, H2T is going the right way about banging that last nail in the coffin.

 

It takes two to mend a marriage, it took two to cause the damage. His wife can not be soley to blame for what's happened.

[lover's rock]

Of course it takes two. We know this. But they have to realize what they have done themselves. In short, he's behaving normally lol.

 

Most married men will drop the OW once they start messing with their family. MM like to keep those two aspects of their lives separate and live a "double life" so to speak. So in essence, this OW overstepped her boundaries which made him put things in perspective. He never really loved her but she filled a void. Do you know how good it is to be treated kindly when you've missed out on that in years? It feels damn good...just like love. And your mind can get screwed up over that because you just want to feel good. So you think it's love and you think it's what you want when the truth is??? You just want your significant other to fill your void. You want your wife/husband to be that person who is kind to you and fulfills your emotional needs. When someone else does it, it feels good...but it's not love...it just feels like love because you think "if my wife loved me, she'd do all the things this other person is willing to do". That's not always true. We have to learn what feels like love to our spouse and perform that...not treat them like what feels like love to us but what feels like love to them. I feel love when my husband does chores around the house. And like LadyJane said, either in this thread or another, her husband feels love when she cooks for him (my husband too btw lol).

 

In short, most MM won't tolerate a W and OW communicating. When that happens, it causes him to see things for how he truly wants them to be. When the **** hits the fan, that's what it takes for MM to realize the truth...whether they want to be with their wife or with the OW. H2T never wanted to be with the OW. He just wanted his wife to be all of those things to him.

[Hard2Think]

Wow .. you got it. You expressed it even better than I could have. You described my thoughts and feelings exactly!

 

Of course it takes two. We know this. But they have to realize what they have done themselves. In short, he's behaving normally lol.

 

Most married men will drop the OW once they start messing with their family. MM like to keep those two aspects of their lives separate and live a "double life" so to speak. So in essence, this OW overstepped her boundaries which made him put things in perspective. He never really loved her but she filled a void. Do you know how good it is to be treated kindly when you've missed out on that in years? It feels damn good...just like love. And your mind can get screwed up over that because you just want to feel good. So you think it's love and you think it's what you want when the truth is??? You just want your significant other to fill your void. You want your wife/husband to be that person who is kind to you and fulfills your emotional needs. When someone else does it, it feels good...but it's not love...it just feels like love because you think "if my wife loved me, she'd do all the things this other person is willing to do". That's not always true. We have to learn what feels like love to our spouse and perform that...not treat them like what feels like love to us but what feels like love to them. I feel love when my husband does chores around the house. And like LadyJane said, either in this thread or another, her husband feels love when she cooks for him (my husband too btw lol).

 

In short, most MM won't tolerate a W and OW communicating. When that happens, it causes him to see things for how he truly wants them to be. When the **** hits the fan, that's what it takes for MM to realize the truth...whether they want to be with their wife or with the OW. H2T never wanted to be with the OW. He just wanted his wife to be all of those things to him.

[lover's rock]

I am glad that I could help. Keep me posted.

[Hard2Think]

I'm going to my first one on one with the MC today. My wife had her on Monday. She came back all depressed - because of finances and the relationship.

 

She was a bit hostile towards me during the first part of the day but then changed completely at night. I'm sort of getting used to these sudden changes now. But that night she told me that as she was telling the MC the story of our relationship, she reminisced over all the happy times - and she realized that in those happy times, we had made lots of time for each other. She told me that she realized that she hadn't been doing much to keep things going between us. To me that was huge that she would ever admit that!

 

The rest of the week has been up and down and last night was great. But after making love, she asked me a whole bunch of questions again about OW. I try to be honest, but frankly the emotions and events with OW are becoming so distant, that I'm having a hard time re-living them in my mind. So I try to give her answers that would have made sense at the time - I can't tell her that I'm forgetting how I felt because she'll think I'm evading her questions. Now that my wife is being nicer, I'm also forgetting how bad the marriage was before. I literally can't get angry nor resentful, nor can I visualize clearly how I felt before when things were bad.

 

Then she switched back to defense mode and told me that she's not sure she can stay with me given that I actually got physical with OW. She claims that she feels funny when I hold her hand and when we get intimate .. She worries that this feeling will never go away.

 

I can't say much to that except maybe to reassure her that I'll always be there for her and that she's the one who I always loved and that I want nothing more than to be with her. But she doesn't trust me - and I guess I can't blame her for that.

[a4a]

Well that sounds like positive progress over all H2T.

 

I am happy for you...... stay strong.

 

I think there is a damn good chance your marriage may end up better than it ever was.

[Hard2Think]

Thanks! I hope you're right. I'm still not too sure.

 

Well that sounds like positive progress over all H2T.

 

I am happy for you...... stay strong.

 

I think there is a damn good chance your marriage may end up better than it ever was.

[a4a]

Thanks! I hope you're right. I'm still not too sure.

 

well you remember your reservations when your wife brings up her reservations....... see it is tough time so of course you both are going to be back and forth on it for a bit.... keep your eye on your goal.

 

Repair the marriage and improve it.

[Hard2Think]

I saw the MC for my first one on one with him. He already saw my wife for her one one one on Monday. Even though he seemed to be the one asking many questions, I got some very interesting insights from him.

 

Without getting in too much detail, I got the sense that he didn't see a whole lot of hope in this marriage. He didn't come out and say it that way - but he did say that I was likely going to have to make a decsion as to whether or not I'm going to be willing to spend the next 10 years or so living the way I have been. He did say that he would do his job and try to get her to see where she may have been contributing to the problems - but I didn't hear a whole lot of positive energy in that statement. I got the distinct feeling that he placed more responsibility on her for the failures in the marriage than he did on me.

 

In a weird way - I'm uncomfortable with that. It's almost as though I feel I want to take al the responsibility because that way at least I can have some control over the outcome.

 

I told him that I think that my wife is still very much wrapped up in her pain from the affair - certainly too much to discuss this aspect of the marriage. But he told me that while he in no way minimizes the importance and impact of that event - he sees it as nothing more than a symptom of much more serious troubles that need to be addressed real soon.

 

That worries me just a little because I don't think my wife is ready to hear that yet. We're having a joint session next Wednesday, and I'm not sure how she'll react if indeed he presses that point.

[MarriedTard]

So what did you decide?

[Hard2Think]

Nothing yet. I'm going to wait and see what happens next week with the MC. So far, things look bleak. She keeps getting angry and threatening to leave and/or get another guy and all that BS.

 

My wife I guess confided out situation to another divorced friend of hers who I suspect gave her hard line advice against me. So she declared today that she will not be seeing the MC with me Wednesday and that it's over between us.

 

While I could understand that attitude a couple of weeks ago - I suspect that this has gone on too long with zero progress. I've gone to great lengths to be nice to her and treat her as I would want to be treated even though she gets awful mean at times. I think that the damage may be permanent and I need to be prepared for the worst.

 

This is depressing - but I'll see the MC alone.

 

So what did you decide?

[whichwayisup]

Go alone and then when you come home, tell her about your counselling.

 

Back off of her too, let her come to you. If she is going to let a friend who is going through her own rough times influence her working things out with you, then let her do just that. Trust me, eventually she will realize wtf she's doing is wrong and do another 180.

 

Tell the MC about this friend of hers who is advising her. Maybe the MC can talk to your wife one on one and get her to focus on YOU and what you think and feel instead of that friend.

[Hard2Think]

Thank you. Yeah - I'm thinking I need to back off a little as well. Maybe I look too weak to her because I've been so amenable and available as of late.

 

As to my wife ever doing a one on one - I don't see it happening as long as she's decided that there's nothing more she can do.

 

The initial problems with the marriage was that I didn't think she cared. She certainly acted as though she didn't. And I'm starting to think that maybe indeed she doesn't care after all. She's made several comments lately about how it would all be so much easier if we split up so she doesn't have to deal with all this .. In other words, if there's any effort that needs to be made, it's not worth it. It never was.

 

Ah - as I write this, I realize I'm confused as all hell.

 

Go alone and then when you come home, tell her about your counselling.

 

Back off of her too, let her come to you. If she is going to let a friend who is going through her own rough times influence her working things out with you, then let her do just that. Trust me, eventually she will realize wtf she's doing is wrong and do another 180.

 

Tell the MC about this friend of hers who is advising her. Maybe the MC can talk to your wife one on one and get her to focus on YOU and what you think and feel instead of that friend.

[Hard2Think]

It's the next day . and she's seems just as hateful towards me as yesterday .. anyone have any suggestions? Is it over?