I'm the MM and I love my OW - now what?

[Hard2Think]

LJ,

 

Thanks, but there's no need to sell me on staying in the marriage. That's what I'm trying to do.

 

Now I don't know if this makes any sense, but I'm not one to hold grudges. In fact, whenever my wife was nice to me for short periods, I'd always think things were finally turning around and I would forget everything.

 

I would do the exact same if my wife one day came and admitted what she had done, how lousy it was, and promised not to do it anymore. I would forget the whole thing and never bring it up again. That's the way I am.

 

I just hate the fact that she denies it ever happened. She admits it at times of weakness - but soon bounces back and says that I'm exaggerating. So I find it hard to just forget the whole thing now - because if she doesn't acknowledge it sometime - she'll just keep doing it again and again. And I just can't live with that. I couldn't then - I can't now.

 

But right now - I'm not pressing the issue with her because of the severity of the impact of this D-Day. I bite my tongue at every opportunity.

 

 

I've got to throw you a life-ring here, H2T... and remind everyone that you're not enjoying good communications within your marriage right now. Because of your recent D-Day and the pain your wife is in, you're uncomfortable bringing your resentments to her and instead.... you bring them to us here at LS.

 

That beats the heck out of bottling them up, but you might want to let us know when you're venting. That way, we won't beat on you too hard with the 2x4's!

 

These folks are right, you know. You've got to STOP the "negative framing". You've got to be patient and work issues out in MC. You've got to stop letting yourself justify your decision to cheat. And you've got to START really empathizing with your wife.... walking a mile in her shoes. So many times, you've posted something your wife said or did.... and I identify like alot of folks here do, because I'd have probably done the same.

 

Your resentments are HUGE.

But, I have trouble accepting that your wife is such a bad person. There are NONE of us who are perfect and who don't make mistakes. And some of the issues that you are harboring resentment for in the marriage, like the lack of sexual fulfillment, are almost UNIVERSAL in long term relationships. Almost ALL of us go through it.

 

You can always choose to cash it in and divorce, you know. You can make that decision TODAY if that's what you really want. But.... if you're counting on finding another relationship that's NOT going to present you with any problems, your best bet is to stay SINGLE.

 

Sure OW kissed your ass.

That's not unusual for OWs. She was in the infatuation stage and so were you at the time. What more.... she knew she was competing for your affection. Your wife didn't have the benefit of that particular knowledge at the time, did she?

 

Infatuation doesn't last though, and I think you KNOW that. Eventually, things simmer down in every relationship. We ALL take our partners for granted now and then. We ALL make mistakes. We ALL say things we don't really mean or act in an insensitive way.

 

Do you really think that if you dumped your wife and family, you wouldn't be looking at the same problems or variations of them five years from now? 'Cause if you do.... think again. If you're a 'Romantic' and you believe that people in love are always good to each other.... it's time to embrace reality. We're not always nice to each other. Even the most close and loving partners have occasional bouts of withdrawal and drifting.

 

MC is going to help you alot. But if you can't put your resentments behind you at some point... you're spinning your wheels trying to reconcile. It can't be done.

 

Sooooo.... it's BIG PICTURE time. Spend some time thinking about what you want out of life. Visualize it. Are you going to sit at a separate table from your wife when you attend your children's weddings? Will you be welcome at the hospital when your grandchildren are born? Will there be somebody to hold your hand when you're sick and it's your time? Can you really stand the thought of YOUR wife.... sharing her life, her body, and all these things I've mentioned, with somebody else and NOT with you?

 

Are you willing to raise another man's children while your own are being raised by some other guy? :confused:

 

Like I told you. You have TODAY. Make the best use you can of it. Don't dwell on all these things that are gone and in the past. You can't change them, and they won't matter to you anymore *IF* you can recover the marriage. A recovered marriage is NEW. It's not the same old crap you had before unless you become complacent and settle for it. This is something you BOTH have power over.

[TheWife]

LJ,

 

Thanks, but there's no need to sell me on staying in the marriage. That's what I'm trying to do.

 

Now I don't know if this makes any sense, but I'm not one to hold grudges. In fact, whenever my wife was nice to me for short periods, I'd always think things were finally turning around and I would forget everything.

 

I would do the exact same if my wife one day came and admitted what she had done, how lousy it was, and promised not to do it anymore. I would forget the whole thing and never bring it up again. That's the way I am.

 

I just hate the fact that she denies it ever happened. She admits it at times of weakness - but soon bounces back and says that I'm exaggerating. So I find it hard to just forget the whole thing now - because if she doesn't acknowledge it sometime - she'll just keep doing it again and again. And I just can't live with that. I couldn't then - I can't now.

 

But right now - I'm not pressing the issue with her because of the severity of the impact of this D-Day. I bite my tongue at every opportunity.

All right folks, let's throw in the towel on this one and help someone else!

 

LOL, H2T, you just don't know when to let up! You're still picking at your W apart like a vulture on its dead prey.

 

Your W is going through a verrrrrry emotional roller coaster ride! Period! How much more explanation and replies will you need to convince you?

 

Listen to you..."...And I just can't live with that. I couldn't then...I can't now..." This is the same line my H used to rant about! Live with it! It's temporary! And if you can't, like LJ said, get a divorce. There! your problem is solved! Is this what you want to hear?

 

Here, let me take you into your W's mind. You see, every time when she looks at you, she'll think to herself why she's still with you. And there are moments when she (like I did) will glance at you that makes her cringe at the site of you because you sc*wed somebody else. I didn't tell STBXH until we were in MC. She fights the urge to want to kick you in the nuts for it. And I bet you, it's even more of a struggle for her because there are kids involved. She knows she can't just walk out of the M. She knows the impact it will do to the kids.

 

If you read my thread, you would have read what I wrote that one of the driving force that makes even the most intelligent men/women engaged in EMR or Affairs is their lack of or low self esteem. And if you think I'm just blowing smoke up your stack, go back to MB and read Dr. Phil's website.

 

Your lack of self-esteem continue to show with the way you are handling your W and the aftermath of your A.

[Mz. Pixie]

If you read my thread, you would have read what I wrote that one of the driving force that makes even the most intelligent men/women engaged in EMR or Affairs is their lack of or low self esteem. And if you think I'm just blowing smoke up your stack, go back to MB and read Dr. Phil's website.

 

Your lack of self-esteem continue to show with the way you are handling your W and the aftermath of your A.

 

Actually, according to Willard Harley- who founded marriage builders that's incorrect. I just finished reading His Needs Her Needs and I quoted above what he said about unmet needs in marriage. If it doesn't say that on the MB site it sure needs to.

 

Dr. Phil I'm not sure of. I certainly know there was nothing wrong with my self esteem when I had my A.

 

I'm not willing to give up on H now. I think he and his wife can recover.

 

And TW- I think you're really smart and I love your style but the difference between your H and H2T is that your H cheated very early in marriage and H2T didn't. Your H also continued to sneak around and see OW behind your back, H2T did not. H2T is showing up- he's being good to his wife- not neglecting her to run out and pursue his own interests.

 

Lady J was right about how if you start a new relationship then 4 or 5 years down the line you'll have the same issues. All relationships have issues at one point or another.

[TheWife]

 

And TW- I think you're really smart and I love your style but the difference between your H and H2T is that your H cheated very early in marriage and H2T didn't. Your H also continued to sneak around and see OW behind your back, H2T did not. H2T is showing up- he's being good to his wife- not neglecting her to run out and pursue his own interests.

 

I absolutely acknowledge that difference between my H and H2T as I have. The similarities I am pointing out is H2T's ongoing complaints about his W. I commended H2T for recommintting himself to the M and his W.

 

H2T has received many great advice from loyal readers/followers such as yourself but his ongoing list of complaints about his W needs to be re-evaluated by him. Hopefully, it will sink in. It would be just as interesting though to hear his W's side....just a thought....

.

[NoIDidn't]

LJ is right. We are really being hard on you. But what do you expect from a bunch of women....(snickering).

 

My therapist told me something that has helped me through for the past several months. Be good to myself. That meant to me to stop waiting for my H to fulfill my every need. That is what you may need to do.

 

Are there things that you enjoy doing alone, or even with your W? If so, trying doing them once a month. You may not have time or the desire to do it more than that. Put the kids to bed early and rent a movie. Get "The Story of Us", I haven't seen it but it has gotten good reviews from couples in crisis. Or "Shall We Dance", that one snuck up on me and my H b/c we weren't expecting the storyline to be so relationship centered.

 

Just hang in there. You are at the beginning, but it gets easier. I've heard it said that the road to recovery is not linear, so you will come back to these big bumps again. Learn to navigate them now. Find out what triggers the bumps so you can even avoid it sometimes. Note: the above movies might even be triggering.

 

I meant to add something earlier that I forgot. I don't think that you are purposefully hiding something from us. And if you were, I wouldn't blame you - we are a bunch of strangers on the internet of all places. But *I* think there are things that are hidden from you that MC/IC will help you uncover.

 

But be good to you. Be good to your kids. Be good to your W. Take a break if you need to, absence makes the heart grow fonder you know.

 

Anyway, I hope you all stay the course and recover, even in your complaints I hear a lot of love - even patience. Vent here if you need to. Just let us blow hards know its a vent post and we'll leave it be. Or least I will. BTDT.

 

Take it easy.

[TheWife]

LJ is right. We are really being hard on you. But what do you expect from a bunch of women....(snickering).

 

My therapist told me something that has helped me through for the past several months. Be good to myself. That meant to me to stop waiting for my H to fulfill my every need. That is what you may need to do.

 

Are there things that you enjoy doing alone, or even with your W? If so, trying doing them once a month. You may not have time or the desire to do it more than that. Put the kids to bed early and rent a movie. Get "The Story of Us", I haven't seen it but it has gotten good reviews from couples in crisis. Or "Shall We Dance", that one snuck up on me and my H b/c we weren't expecting the storyline to be so relationship centered.

 

Just hang in there. You are at the beginning, but it gets easier. I've heard it said that the road to recovery is not linear, so you will come back to these big bumps again. Learn to navigate them now. Find out what triggers the bumps so you can even avoid it sometimes. Note: the above movies might even be triggering.

 

I meant to add something earlier that I forgot. I don't think that you are purposefully hiding something from us. And if you were, I wouldn't blame you - we are a bunch of strangers on the internet of all places. But *I* think there are things that are hidden from you that MC/IC will help you uncover.

 

But be good to you. Be good to your kids. Be good to your W. Take a break if you need to, absence makes the heart grow fonder you know.

 

Anyway, I hope you all stay the course and recover, even in your complaints I hear a lot of love - even patience. Vent here if you need to. Just let us blow hards know its a vent post and we'll leave it be. Or least I will. BTDT.

 

Take it easy.

I've been meaning to want to read your story. Something keeps knawing at me to read your thread. When I get a chance, within the next couple of days, I will. Between finishing with the MSA draft, housework, yardwork, business, volunteer work, and getting my life organized, not to mention hours of being sidetracked on LS, I'm taking a couples days off from peeking on LS so that I can read yours with a fresh mind....

 

Since I've moved on, this will be good as any to change my nametag.

[MotoMan]

H2T, I don't think you suffer from low self esteem as TW suggests, but I do think you're second guessing yourself. You admitted your wrongdoing, made a commitment to your M & family, but your needs are still not being met...and you're probably wondering if/when they will be met. You're trying to find out from other folks in a similar situation how much of this you're going to have to deal with, and the answer I'm hearing from many of these replies is: as long as it takes.

 

Therein lies the conflict. You know that with things as they are now, that it probably reminds you of similar conditions that made the OW seem so attractive, and that's scarey. You must choose each day what course of action you'll take. In a way, you're taking it on faith that, in time, you and your w will be able to make a m that satisfys both of you.

 

A good friend of mine recently asked me a thought-provoking question that I'll pass on to you:

 

Do you love your w as she is, or do you love the w you want her to be? (Or the way you wish she was at the beginning of your R?)

 

Answer this in your own heart, and it'll provide a lot of clarity (and help you with your choices).

 

TW is jumping all over you for "not getting it", but I think it's important for all of us to realize that it takes time to go through this process, and you're venting your frustrations as you go thru it. No matter how your w treats you, you will still have to make the daily choice to stay with it.

 

I hope you guys make it, you sound like a good man. I'm sure your w is a good person too, but if she's as materialistic as your posts imply, you have to decide if you can live with that for the rest of your life.

[Hard2Think]

Thanks Motoman,

 

So far, I'm sticking with it. I think I'll stop trying only if I see that's it's hopeless. I love her as she is now - but I'm not sure I can live with her as she is. That's always been my dilemma. I love her too much to leave but her actions make it too hard to stay.

 

Times like now make it even more difficult because she's been acting very indifferent towards me the past few days - something I'm somewhat used to by now I guess. So it's not so much the "when" we'll meet our EN's that bothers me - it's the "if".

 

But anyway - it is what it is right now.

[Mz. Pixie]

your needs are still not being met...and you're probably wondering if/when they will be met. You're trying to find out from other folks in a similar situation how much of this you're going to have to deal with, and the answer I'm hearing from many of these replies is: as long as it takes.

 

Therein lies the conflict. You know that with things as they are now, that it probably reminds you of similar conditions that made the OW seem so attractive, and that's scarey. You must choose each day what course of action you'll take. In a way, you're taking it on faith that, in time, you and your w will be able to make a m that satisfys both of you.

 

 

Yes, he is taking it on faith- just like she took it on faith that he wouldn't screw around on her.

 

Herein lies the problem. Yes, she treated him horribly. But instead of trying to "mention" it here and there and "bringing it up" to try to get her to change he should have drawn down the line and said "I'm not happy. Our marriage is not what I want it to be for both of us. I'm sure we could get back to that place if you'd consider going to marriage counseling. If you won't consider going to marriage counseling and working on our marriage then I'm going to have to explore other options- up to separation or divorce. Because I'm unwilling to live like this anylonger. You have 30 days to make up your mind" Then he could let HER make the decision- BEFORE he dipped his wick.

 

Then, he could have seen whether or not she would truly committ and change. If not, then he could have ended the marriage before he had the affair.

 

She possibly didn't get a real chance to mend things because the way he was telling her she wasn't or couldn't hear it.

 

I personally flat out told my exhusband that I would leave him or have an affair if he didn't work on our marriage. It didn't do any good at all. But that doesn't mean that it wouldn't work for someone else.

 

The reason that things have been so good with many men with OW?? The answers are simple. It's fantasy. You don't ever have to argue with them about the kids, or money or household work. They are eager to please your every whim. Every time you're with her it's new and exciting and the added factor of the secretive nature magnifies things 100 percent. But most OW will be just like a wife, once you left the wife and moved on to OW. Because the dynamics of the relationship will have changed. Eventually it will get old with OW just like it did with your wife. Then, you'll be like "I'm not getting my needs met" and you'll be moving on again. Because that's what real life is about.

 

Until you get to the bottom of why *YOU* cheated- and keep from blaming the other person you're never going to be able to say that you won't do it again. You need to ask yourself- what is it about *me* that allowed this to happen?? Each person has fault in an affair and end of a marriage- not just one or the other. Both.

[Hard2Think]

Yeah, there is some merit to that. But the marriage would have ended. She really doesn't see the problems. When I did finally ask for a divorce - three days went by before I backtracked. In those three days she never asked me what we could do to avoid this. She did say she would not beg for me to stay. It's all about pride.

 

I know I won't have an A again for many reasons - but I can't be sure this will work out if things go back to where they were. I'll do my best to see that it does work out - but not that the price of living with neglect and abuse again.

 

I'm curious .. you actually told your husband that you may have an affair or divorce and he still did nothing. What other options did you think you had? Divorce would have ended your marriage .. aren't you glad you chose the A, if indeed that was the event that made your marriage change?

 

Yes, he is taking it on faith- just like she took it on faith that he wouldn't screw around on her.

 

Herein lies the problem. Yes, she treated him horribly. But instead of trying to "mention" it here and there and "bringing it up" to try to get her to change he should have drawn down the line and said "I'm not happy. Our marriage is not what I want it to be for both of us. I'm sure we could get back to that place if you'd consider going to marriage counseling. If you won't consider going to marriage counseling and working on our marriage then I'm going to have to explore other options- up to separation or divorce. Because I'm unwilling to live like this anylonger. You have 30 days to make up your mind" Then he could let HER make the decision- BEFORE he dipped his wick.

 

Then, he could have seen whether or not she would truly committ and change. If not, then he could have ended the marriage before he had the affair.

 

She possibly didn't get a real chance to mend things because the way he was telling her she wasn't or couldn't hear it.

 

I personally flat out told my exhusband that I would leave him or have an affair if he didn't work on our marriage. It didn't do any good at all. But that doesn't mean that it wouldn't work for someone else.

 

The reason that things have been so good with many men with OW?? The answers are simple. It's fantasy. You don't ever have to argue with them about the kids, or money or household work. They are eager to please your every whim. Every time you're with her it's new and exciting and the added factor of the secretive nature magnifies things 100 percent. But most OW will be just like a wife, once you left the wife and moved on to OW. Because the dynamics of the relationship will have changed. Eventually it will get old with OW just like it did with your wife. Then, you'll be like "I'm not getting my needs met" and you'll be moving on again. Because that's what real life is about.

 

Until you get to the bottom of why *YOU* cheated- and keep from blaming the other person you're never going to be able to say that you won't do it again. You need to ask yourself- what is it about *me* that allowed this to happen?? Each person has fault in an affair and end of a marriage- not just one or the other. Both.

[Ladyjane14]

You need to just get a divorce, H2T.

I just caught some of your other posts on another thread, and in my honest opinion.... you are POISONED on your own resentments.

 

You didn't address your marital problems when you had the opportunity. You ACCEPTED less than you wanted. These were YOUR choices, not hers... YOURS.

 

There was NOTHING stopping you from divorcing your wife instead of cheating on her. And there is NO EXCUSE that's good enough. I wouldn't buy into that bag of crap even if you'd never been laid EVER within the marriage. If you promised fidelity when you married her.... nothing less was acceptable. Nothing that she did makes it okay for you to go back on YOUR word. You're either a man of your word or you aren't.... and clearly, by virtue of your previous actions and your continued staunch defense of them.... you aren't.

 

YOU caused your own problems. You sh*t your own bed... and now you want to blame your wife for it. It was YOUR responsibility to make it CRYSTAL CLEAR to her that your sex life was unacceptable. Now you say that you've taken responsibility for your choices... Well, I don't think I'm the only one reading here who doesn't believe that.

 

Anyway... if reconciliation is still your goal.... I wish you luck in it, but at this point... I really do believe you're wasting your time and your wife's as well.

[norajane]

I know I won't have an A again for many reasons - but I can't be sure this will work out if things go back to where they were. I'll do my best to see that it does work out - but not that the price of living with neglect and abuse again.

 

The point you're missing is that NOW is not when your wife is going to be concerned about your needs. She feels betrayed and her trust abused. Regardless of whether you think you were justified in having the affairs or whether her actions made it easier for you to rationalize cheating on her, what you did makes it impossible for her to address the pre-existing issues in your marriage because she is so upset, hurt, and angry. To her, and to many other women, nothing she might have been at fault for doing is remotely enough to balance the agony she is feeling right now. To her, you had other options besides having an affair, and instead, you chose the option to f*ck her over.

 

It may be possible to address those pre-existing issues at some point in the future, but your expectations of addressing them NOW and of her seriously and rationally considering your concerns NOW, is completely unrealistic.

 

You have to ride this out and temper your expectations until she can get past this - IF she can get past this - and can get to a point where the health of your interactions with each other is under consideration. You waited all these years to address these issues, and now you want her to say, "Of course, honey, you're right. I've been a bitch all these years but now I really want to make YOU feel special and loved. I see where I've done you so much wrong!" It goes completely against human nature for her to be able to do that. You can't stab someone in the gut and then expect hugs and kisses because you feel you were justified in stabbing her in the first place.

 

If you cannot be patient and allow her to have her feelings - which she is entitled to have - then you are not committed to reconciliation. Now is when she is entitled to be the biggest bitch ever - you cannot expect her to be filled with all the loving goodness toward you that you want. If you can't deal, then you'd best leave, because you HAVE to deal if you want to be there when she comes out the other side.

[Hard2Think]

You're entitled to your opinion, I guess.

 

But I do think it's rather odd to say that NOTHING stopped me from a divorce. That tells me you're in unfamiliar territory, I'm afraid. Anyone in my position knows exactly what I'm talking about.

 

Saying that it was my responsibility to make it crystal clear that I was dissatisfied is also a cop-out. I did make it crystal clear many times. I could not have made it clearer. She simply chose not to take it seriously. THAT was her choice, not mine. The fact that she would not take anything I said seriously is in itself a painful blow.

 

I quite sure that if it were a woman posting here about how her husband is never home and spends all his time out with the guys in spite of repeated pleas to stay home, none of you would accuse her being responsible for not communicating. That may be because many people here are themselves BS's and see only that side, I don't know.

 

The affair was my choice, yes. I'm accepting that as my responsibility - not hers. But at times I feel like I've been duped for the last 8 years. The other person's thread hit home because that's exactly what I went through. Sorry if you don't like it - but I'm not here to meet your approval.

 

 

You need to just get a divorce, H2T.

I just caught some of your other posts on another thread, and in my honest opinion.... you are POISONED on your own resentments.

 

You didn't address your marital problems when you had the opportunity. You ACCEPTED less than you wanted. These were YOUR choices, not hers... YOURS.

 

There was NOTHING stopping you from divorcing your wife instead of cheating on her. And there is NO EXCUSE that's good enough. I wouldn't buy into that bag of crap even if you'd never been laid EVER within the marriage. If you promised fidelity when you married her.... nothing less was acceptable. Nothing that she did makes it okay for you to go back on YOUR word. You're either a man of your word or you aren't.... and clearly, by virtue of your previous actions and your continued staunch defense of them.... you aren't.

 

YOU caused your own problems. You sh*t your own bed... and now you want to blame your wife for it. It was YOUR responsibility to make it CRYSTAL CLEAR to her that your sex life was unacceptable. Now you say that you've taken responsibility for your choices... Well, I don't think I'm the only one reading here who doesn't believe that.

 

Anyway... if reconciliation is still your goal.... I wish you luck in it, but at this point... I really do believe you're wasting your time and your wife's as well.

[Hard2Think]

I agree with you .. I haven't made the marriage before the A an issue as of yet precisely for the reasons you mentioned. That doesn't mean that they're not on my mind, that's all. But yes, I'm biting my tongue and listening whenever she wants to talk.

 

The point you're missing is that NOW is not when your wife is going to be concerned about your needs. She feels betrayed and her trust abused. Regardless of whether you think you were justified in having the affairs or whether her actions made it easier for you to rationalize cheating on her, what you did makes it impossible for her to address the pre-existing issues in your marriage because she is so upset, hurt, and angry. To her, and to many other women, nothing she might have been at fault for doing is remotely enough to balance the agony she is feeling right now. To her, you had other options besides having an affair, and instead, you chose the option to f*ck her over.

 

It may be possible to address those pre-existing issues at some point in the future, but your expectations of addressing them NOW and of her seriously and rationally considering your concerns NOW, is completely unrealistic.

 

You have to ride this out and temper your expectations until she can get past this - IF she can get past this - and can get to a point where the health of your interactions with each other is under consideration. You waited all these years to address these issues, and now you want her to say, "Of course, honey, you're right. I've been a bitch all these years but now I really want to make YOU feel special and loved. I see where I've done you so much wrong!" It goes completely against human nature for her to be able to do that. You can't stab someone in the gut and then expect hugs and kisses because you feel you were justified in stabbing her in the first place.

 

If you cannot be patient and allow her to have her feelings - which she is entitled to have - then you are not committed to reconciliation. Now is when she is entitled to be the biggest bitch ever - you cannot expect her to be filled with all the loving goodness toward you that you want. If you can't deal, then you'd best leave, because you HAVE to deal if you want to be there when she comes out the other side.

[Ladyjane14]

But I do think it's rather odd to say that NOTHING stopped me from a divorce. That tells me you're in unfamiliar territory, I'm afraid. Anyone in my position knows exactly what I'm talking about.

 

 

Oh.... believe me, when it comes to the willingness to divorce with full knowledge that my kids and I will be living on Tuna Helper in the nicest trailer park we can find... I'm in completely familiar territory.

 

Been There Done That. I'm not afraid to be poor... I've already survived it. I'm not afraid of a vindictive ex-husband either. My own father fed and clothed his STEP-children, all the while bitching and moaning about the lousy hundred bucks he had to pay for my support. Step-kids had coats and 3 meals a day while their mother sat on her ass at home. I had a sweatshirt and ate once a day most days.

 

But I'd rather live that way again, and KNOW that I could look in my mirror anytime and not see a LIAR staring back out at me.

 

Saying that it was my responsibility to make it crystal clear that I was dissatisfied is also a cop-out. I did make it crystal clear many times. I could not have made it clearer. She simply chose not to take it seriously. THAT was her choice, not mine. The fact that she would not take anything I said seriously is in itself a painful blow.

 

Most people who SAY they've made it clear, have actually made a habit of nagging and whining. Eventually, their spouse doesn't listen to it anymore. I know that from experience as well. After awhile like most other folks.... I tune the nagging out.

 

I quite sure that if it were a woman posting here about how her husband is never home and spends all his time out with the guys in spite of repeated pleas to stay home, none of you would accuse her being responsible for not communicating. That may be because many people here are themselves BS's and see only that side, I don't know.

 

Oh puh-leeze.... don't play the 'man-hating, bitter, betrayed wife' card on me. THAT's the "cop-out". You don't like my opinion so I can't possibly have a REALLY GOOD reason for having it.

 

The affair was my choice, yes. I'm accepting that as my responsibility - not hers.

 

You haven't even skimmed the surface of "accepting responsibility". And if you really have done the best you can possibly do... save yourself some heartache and file. Your passive/aggressive approach to marital recovery has ZERO chance of success, IMHO.

[NoIDidn't]

You're entitled to your opinion, I guess.

 

But I do think it's rather odd to say that NOTHING stopped me from a divorce. That tells me you're in unfamiliar territory, I'm afraid. Anyone in my position knows exactly what I'm talking about.

 

 

That may be because many people here are themselves BS's and see only that side, I don't know.

 

I take it that unless someone understands the impetus to cheat, then our opinions matter less b/c we are no better than your W? Is that it?

 

If you want anyone to continue responding to your posts, you may wish to refrain from veiled threats or insinuations that they are less evolved than you. Could that be why your W stopped listening or didn't listen to you?

[Mz. Pixie]

I'm curious .. you actually told your husband that you may have an affair or divorce and he still did nothing. What other options did you think you had? Divorce would have ended your marriage .. aren't you glad you chose the A, if indeed that was the event that made your marriage change?

 

I guess you missed the part where I eventually left him and we divorced??

 

At the time I threw that out as my last attempt to get him to wake up- I had no intentions of having the affair. Then, I had some serious life altering events happen- boom-boom-boom one right after the other. As being from an abusive past I had one person who loved me unconditionally and supported me in my whole entire life- certainly not my H. Well she died suddenly and I just sort of sunk into a deep depression. He wasn't willing to do a thing to mend our marriage. Along came someone I'd known a long time and he made me feel good- and boom, I had a fling- didn't last long.

 

I didn't tell my H- and it scared me into asking for the divorce. Which I did- it was over with OM long before that- and I was never with him again.

 

It was too late at that time for my exH to try to mend the marriage- because he'd promised to change for so long and didn't.

 

But yeah, I actually did tell them that. Know what he said? "I don't have time to work on our marriage" This from a man who was gone every weekend having a good time.

[Hard2Think]

Ok well hey - you obviously know much more than my situation than I do. No use in arguing.

 

Oh.... believe me, when it comes to the willingness to divorce with full knowledge that my kids and I will be living on Tuna Helper in the nicest trailer park we can find... I'm in completely familiar territory.

 

Been There Done That. I'm not afraid to be poor... I've already survived it. I'm not afraid of a vindictive ex-husband either. My own father fed and clothed his STEP-children, all the while bitching and moaning about the lousy hundred bucks he had to pay for my support. Step-kids had coats and 3 meals a day while their mother sat on her ass at home. I had a sweatshirt and ate once a day most days.

 

But I'd rather live that way again, and KNOW that I could look in my mirror anytime and not see a LIAR staring back out at me.

 

 

 

Most people who SAY they've made it clear, have actually made a habit of nagging and whining. Eventually, their spouse doesn't listen to it anymore. I know that from experience as well. After awhile like most other folks.... I tune the nagging out.

 

 

 

Oh puh-leeze.... don't play the 'man-hating, bitter, betrayed wife' card on me. THAT's the "cop-out". You don't like my opinion so I can't possibly have a REALLY GOOD reason for having it.

 

 

 

You haven't even skimmed the surface of "accepting responsibility". And if you really have done the best you can possibly do... save yourself some heartache and file. Your passive/aggressive approach to marital recovery has ZERO chance of success, IMHO.

[Hard2Think]

Veiled threats? Heavens.

 

Ok. Thank you all for your help .. I'll forge ahead and let you know how it all turns out. Thanks again!

 

I take it that unless someone understands the impetus to cheat, then our opinions matter less b/c we are no better than your W? Is that it?

 

If you want anyone to continue responding to your posts, you may wish to refrain from veiled threats or insinuations that they are less evolved than you. Could that be why your W stopped listening or didn't listen to you?

[Hard2Think]

Yes, I guess I id miss that part. Holy crap. That's pretty bad. It's very bad in fact. I'm amazed.

 

I guess you missed the part where I eventually left him and we divorced??

 

At the time I threw that out as my last attempt to get him to wake up- I had no intentions of having the affair. Then, I had some serious life altering events happen- boom-boom-boom one right after the other. As being from an abusive past I had one person who loved me unconditionally and supported me in my whole entire life- certainly not my H. Well she died suddenly and I just sort of sunk into a deep depression. He wasn't willing to do a thing to mend our marriage. Along came someone I'd known a long time and he made me feel good- and boom, I had a fling- didn't last long.

 

I didn't tell my H- and it scared me into asking for the divorce. Which I did- it was over with OM long before that- and I was never with him again.

 

It was too late at that time for my exH to try to mend the marriage- because he'd promised to change for so long and didn't.

 

But yeah, I actually did tell them that. Know what he said? "I don't have time to work on our marriage" This from a man who was gone every weekend having a good time.

[whichwayisup]

I say for a little while, just completely focus on your children, be a wonderful dad to them. I think too, if she sees you in a different light, things will get abit better. She'll see how great you are, and soften her heart towards you. Just continue doing little nice and cool things around the house, she'll notice that and in the long term of this, those little things will pay off ... Someone said on Panic's thread, fake it till you make it...maybe that's a new mindset to try for a little while? Say, about a week. Don't react, dont get mad, sad or anything...Just be. And if you are starting to feel down - Be with the kids to cheer you up.

[Hard2Think]

Thanks! Yeah - I've been careful not to get mad this whole time. Fake it til you make it is the plan. Like I said .. I'm going nowhere unless she specifically asks me to leave or if months and months (I don't know how many yet) go by and she still hates me.

 

I say for a little while, just completely focus on your children, be a wonderful dad to them. I think too, if she sees you in a different light, things will get abit better. She'll see how great you are, and soften her heart towards you. Just continue doing little nice and cool things around the house, she'll notice that and in the long term of this, those little things will pay off ... Someone said on Panic's thread, fake it till you make it...maybe that's a new mindset to try for a little while? Say, about a week. Don't react, dont get mad, sad or anything...Just be. And if you are starting to feel down - Be with the kids to cheer you up.

[whichwayisup]

I'd be more worried if she wasn't having any reactions at all. HATE is the same as LOVE. When you love someone and can hate them at the same time, it's real. If she were feeling "indifferent" or not caring at all, that is when you have to worry more.

 

So, as much as it sucks for you right now, atleast her saying she hates you (She really doesn't but her emotions are saying she does) is a good thing. If that makes any sense to you......lol

[Mz. Pixie]

Yes, I guess I id miss that part. Holy crap. That's pretty bad. It's very bad in fact. I'm amazed.

 

Yeah, shocking isn't it?? I'd had chances to cheat before but I hadn't even thought about it. I was one of those "I'd never cheat" people too. In the years leading up to that I'd filled up my life with alot of stuff to take the place of what my H should have been giving me. Work, the house, the first child, the second child. But when I was pregnant with the second one and all of the things happened- amnio- sickness- early labor that made me have to go on bedrest.....well lets just say he turned that into a "this is so hard on me to work and take care of one child" pity party. There were literally piles of laundry in our floors taller than a five year old! I couldn't do anything- I was too weak to even shower by myself- which he did help me do. Right after the baby was around seven months old other things in my life started to crumble.

 

During all this time, I asked for counseling repeatedly. I would cry and tell him I wasn't happy- that he never spent any time with me. What available money there was for dates and time for us alone he spent on his hobbies so there was very little left for me and the kids. He never worried if they had lunch money or shoes- but you can bet he made sure he had those things if everyone else went without. I would beg him to see our pastor and he would say we didn't have a problem, only I did. I brought home books he wouldn't read- cut out even just small articles about making your marriage better and he'd just toss them. I printed out the emotional needs questionaire from marriage builders and I filled mine out. He wouldn't fill his out or even read mine. I really wanted very little- just affection from him and some time spent with me. We had even slept in separate beds for years. He was terribly overweight but I would have never left him for that. I still made love with him around twice a week- and I certainly didn't lay there either- I was very enthusiastic in bed. I ran the house, took care of the kids, paid all the bills, ran all the errands. I went to church- but he would hardly ever go with me. I took the kids- taught Sunday School the whole works. People thought we had a perfect marriage because I never complained openly. My own father even had no idea who miserable I was. I have personally had people tell me that they couldn't imagine a person with a better personality and outlook on life than me and what an inspiration I was to them- a role model.

 

He was a fair father when he was home but he was more content to leave them in my care all of the time for him to have fun. There weren't any chances for me to plan any family activities because when I would try he'd have the calendar all jammed up with what he wanted to do- just like your wife "I can't this week or next week or the next"

 

When my support person died I said to myself "You know, life is short. I haved a beautiful new home, wonderful in laws, a good job, I drive a nice new car, and I have great kids- but I don't have a relationship with my husband- which is all I really want"

 

I'm pretty simple. Give me a man that treats me right and wants to meet my needs and I will treat him like a king. I don't have much of a need for material things- as long as we have a roof over our heads.

 

So I was planning to separate from him in my mind. Then the affair happened- which was like a one or two time thing. We both ended it because we felt guilty. I ended up separating from him later, and someone I trusted told him everything about the A. He and his family made my life hell- bribed me- begged the whole nine yards. They ruined the OM financially which in turn hurt his innocent children. They used it against me in the divorce to give in to less than I deserved just to keep it out of court- it had already been in the paper once! I basically left with nothing but a few personal possessions- which is okay, because all I wanted was my kids.

 

I also have no doubt that I would have gotten away with it if I would have not divorced him.

 

I'd like to help you keep from what happened to me. I never gave it a second shot- because I was so afraid he wouldn't change. My kids were very hurt by the whole thing- and it's horrible only seeing them part of the time. They miss me when they are with him- they miss him when they are with me. We can't co parent effectively because he's so hell bent on punishing me that he punishes them. I hate knowing another woman is tucking my daughter in at night when I want to do it every night.

 

I wish I would have tried counseling if only to do that for my kids. At the time I was too broken and humiliated to do so.

 

If you guys divorce now- people are not going to remember what a wonderful husband you were (as it sounds). None of that will matter a bit. All that will matter is that you screwed around on your wife. Your kids will find out and that will lessen you in their eyes until they are mature enough to understand matters between adults. You think that the people that I used to go to church with remember how great of a mom and wife I was before the A?? Do you think that my exhusband remembers that?? NO! That one thing that I did outweighed all the other things that were positive that I did. I practically raised those two kids alone for the first half of their lives but do you think I will ever get credit for that from him??

 

I wish I would have gotten out before I had the affair. I wish I would have left him before that to shake him up.

 

In my case it really didn't matter though because he didn't change. He treats his second wife just like he did me. The only difference is she will tolerate it because that's the way she is (i know her).

 

I thought it would be easier to leave but it wasn't. Not at all. It's not that I still want to be married to him, because I don't. It's just that I have regrets about how it was handled. I've learned alot since then. I've read alot and worked on myself. I know what caused me to have an affair. I spent alot of time justifying my behavior because of his- but in the end- I was the one who chose to step over the line and have that fling. No one forced me. No matter what he did he deserved more than that. He's wasn't a horrible person he just wanted something different out of a marriage than I did.

 

Although I will struggle to coparent with him until my kids are grown, I have a wonderful giving man in my life who loves me. He gets that people are to meet their spouses' needs. Ironically he was the BS in his marriage- and his wife left him for the OM-and yet he tells me all the time how the affair and divorce were not totally my fault. I got LUCKY though. I could have been single for a long time. Let me tell you, I know how to treat a man- and he eats it up because he's never had anyone treat him like I do. He went to counseling as well after his marriage broke up- so he gets what he did that contributed to his marriage breaking up- and he has changed so as to avoid that this time.

 

It seems like you love your wife and have always put her on a pedestal and I just hate to see you guys not mend things. I can tell you're angry by your other posts as others have commented here but I KNOW what you have gone through. I know where you are right now, and I'm telling you it's not easier to get out. You may not end up being married or working it out with her but at least you can look your children in the eyes and tell them that you did try everything you could to save it.

[LovingLife]

H2T,

 

I think you need to get a better grip on reality tobe fully committed or effective in your efforts. Are you still in love with the OW?................If not, start a new thread with the appropriate title and let yourself move on from that phase to wherever you are now... Right now you are writing about how committed you are to your marriage & wife on a thread that has a title declaring that you love another woman:confused:

 

Do you see the irony here?