Wondering aloud

[Becoming]

All I can say is that this girl doesn't have a clue what she's letting go. She doesn't deserve you. She sounds totally self-centered.

 

I agree with Lor: at least she tore the bandaid off quickly. You've learned a great deal, and with your insights, sobriety, and kindness, you're going to find a wonderful W someday. Just don't let this horrible nightmare cause fear to take over and wall your heart off from others, ok?

[Mz. Pixie]

She sounds awfullly immature IMO.

 

You sound like a great guy and you won't have a problem finding someone who appreciates what you have to offer.

 

I know, I found a great guy after my 1st marriage was over. One day you'll probably look back at this and think how much better off you are.

[Lor]

Romance? I learned all I know from my dad. Used to be, at least once a month on payday, I would call FTD and send flowers to work. No reason, just cause. If I got out of work early, I would stop and get a single rose from the florist, go to the parking lot of her job and put it on her windshield. Not because I expected anything in return. Sometimes I didn't have the money and a small gift, a new dvd "chick flick" or other bs, because I cared about her and wanted to make her feel good.

You know, there are alot of things I did that show the real "me" I hold doors for a lady, I try to open my truck door and close it for a lady. Pull chairs out at dinner. All because of the code of chivalry, the desire to. Not because I thought opening a door was going to get me anything. Because it is the polite thing to do.

 

Oh, be still my beating heart, there are still men like this out there! Don't you dare quit doing any of that! There are millions of women who WILL appreciate it.

 

I've tried to instill these same values of chivalry in my children. My kids will wait and hold the door open for someone else coming, give up their seat on the subway or help someone load their purchases if they are having problems. I myself have never let my Mom carry anything when we've been in a store, just because. She laughing complained about it one time when I was a teenager; I grabbed the next bag off the counter before she could and was already carrying about 4 others. All she had to carry was her purse. She complained to the sales lady that I wouldn't let her carry anything and the woman told her not to complain; the woman and daughter who had just left had the mother carrying everything and the daughter nothing. That was the last time I heard a word about it.

 

I guess chivalry is dead, because it didn't seem to be appreciated all the time.

 

Chivalry is not dead; you are living proof of that. What woman wouldn't give her left arm to have a door held open, a car door opened, a rose on their windshield. Your W took you for granted when it came to that and one day she will realize what she lost.

[Becoming]

Yeah, a rose on the windshield, wow! :love:

 

Forget the car doors, etc., but flowers do it for me. My favorites are wildflowers (daisies, queen anne's lace, black-eyed Susans--stuff you can find alongside the road). All my DH has to do is pick me a few of these--absolutely free--and it's all smiles of delight from me as I try to please him.

 

Now that's what I'm talking about--trying to outdo one another in love (isn't that Biblical?)

[DieselPWR]

You know that bad part, I think with her mental problems, she has tuned out all of the good things about us. Everyone at work used to tell her how lucky I was, and unfortunately I lid my sickness get in the way of that. I am getting better now, and can now see clearly now. That she doesn't realize what she's giving up. And that's exactly what she did: she gave up. Like a 6 year old that doesn't want to play with you anymore "You aren't my best friend anymore" type stuff. There was never any "outdoing" going on. I was always the outgoing one, and her? Well...... She tried once in a while. I guess one of the positives of this is I can scrap my Christmas plans, which inlvolved a very nice, diamond bracelet that I had my eye on at the jewlrey store.

BTW, got the separation agreement that has been missing for 5 weeks. I felt alot better than I thought I would. Her lawyer screwed it up, so I need to call him today. I am happier about it than I thought I would. I think its because I am getting the closure that I need. Not that I wouldn't reconsider if she called me, but at this point, its more doubtful.

Me

[Becoming]

The kids who want to take their marbles and go home are the ones who miss out. The rest just play football or kick the can.

 

I'm sorry this has happened to you. Next time, go slower, ok? You sound like a guy who lives with his heart wide open, which is a rare thing these days, but there are things you don't want in your life, so you need to have a gate to keep it out. Fickleness in a LTR is probably something you don't want/need or you're gonna end up broke by various divorce proceedings down the road.

 

But a hard question now: do you feel like you have to do all these wonderful things before anyone will love you? Or do you just want to? It sounds like B if you keep doing these even after you got the girl.

 

You're gonna be fine, though I'm sure it doesn't always feel that way. You obviously have a higher view of what marriage is than her.

[Mz. Pixie]

But a hard question now: do you feel like you have to do all these wonderful things before anyone will love you? Or do you just want to? It sounds like B if you keep doing these even after you got the girl.

 

 

Good question Becoming!

 

You know, my husband was like that. He was used to taking his gf's shopping and buying them things telling them not to look at the pricetags- spending bunches on expensive dinners etc. When he met me he was just flabbergasted that I would prefer to have BBQ nachos for $20.00 than a steak dinner for $250.00!!!

 

He once confided he felt like he had to do that to get what he wanted in return from these women- sex and affection etc. So, now I joke with him all the time when we go out to eat at a really nice place "You now I'm expecting to get laid after this right?" He LOVES that.

 

He will slurge and spoil me but it's not all the time. I'd much rather slow dance in the living room or have a bath drawn for me than have a gift bought for me, but that's just me.

 

Also, Diesel- you said with her mental problems it was easier for her to turn around all of the good things about you two? Actually, that is called "fog" and it occurs to someone who is actively involved in an affair- didn't you say she was seeing someone?? They have a tendency to re write their history to make it seem worse than it really was- because it's the only way they can do what they do!

[DieselPWR]

Honestly I did cause I liked to do it. If I had been doing to get her to love me, than I didn't need her anyways. Really, I did those things because I had an image in my mind of her smiling with glee. That was the only reward I wanted: to see her smile. Her smile lit up a room, and made me warm all over. Anything else was a bonus, but not expected.

Yes, I did wear my heart on my sleeve. Always have, I am just a very sensitive person that is hurt very easily because of this. That is something I don't know that I can change. I mean for pete's sake, I cry during the end of Backdraft when Kurt Douglas says "Let me go Bro" and the brother says "You go, we go" <sniff, sniff> Tears me up everytime. But anyways...

Mz Pixie, I don't remember saying that I knew she was messing around. She definitly had alot of the signs, but only the last week. Slept on the couch, came and went alot without telling me where sheI was going, got a radical new haircut, dissappeared for 8-10 hours on Sat and Sun. And got super mad when I asked her if there was someone else. Oh yeah, she started sleeping with her cell phone. If she was screwing around before that, she was dang good, cause I always knew where she was, she called all the time and our sex life was still the same. No more, no less, about the same. Plus she wore the same granny panties she always wore. When she met me, she wore skimpy bikini's and stuff like that. But she could've had a change of clothes in her car, Not sure. I suspected something was up, but didn't ever have any reason to not trust her. At this point, she has been gone over a month with me having no idea where she is. It is entirely possible she has shacked up with another guy. And to that I say good riddance, and to the guy I honestly feel bad for him. Cause her M.O. has been the same with the last two guys (Her first fiance and me) She is sweet as sugar at the beginning, constant sex, affection, etc, and then about 6 months into it, once the hooks set, she takes control. Then a year or so later, she is done in an instant. I know some of these things by listening to some of what she told me about #1. Same reasons she left him, as she left me. Heck, looking back, I don't think she was completely done with #1 when she met me. She used to have him over at her place when she stayed at mine. RED FLAG. But I was so dang blind that I couldn't see any of the signs but I do now. Buh Bye.

She has written some nasty e-mails in the last two days, I think to try and get a rise outta me. I was all good until she brought the parents into it. That allmost drove me over the edge. I wrote a 5 page e-mail that I am saving until after the divorce. It is not mean, hurtful or anything of the sort. It is honest and to the point, but I have been advised by my attorney not to send it until everything is final so that she doesn't pull any tricks.

The good thing about this whole situation? Everytime she e-mails me something nasty , hateful, trying to hurt me, it actually helps me get over her. Because she is truly showing her true colors, and I am actually starting the "What the hell was I thinking" thoughts. So, rather than getting me lower, it it helping me better myself.

[Becoming]

All I can say is that this poor girl is clueless. How many women do we hear lamenting about there not being any good men out there and here she goes and throws away a perfectly wonderful one. Geez and puhlease Louise!

 

I told my daughters they shouldn't marry anyone who doesn't cry at the end of Old Yeller when they have to shoot the dog. So my daughter watches the movie and says, "Um, I didn't cry at the end of Old Yeller, so what now?" Movies have changed so much since then I'm not sure we can see it as anything but a slow B movie now, but gosh I cried and cried over that poor rabid dog.

[Gunny376]

I posted on your other thread, before your got your handle.

 

I've got a sort of anniversary coming up Sunday ~ it was sixteen years ago to the day, date, and years that I put my XW on the plane back to the states from Japan.

 

We were separated for a years. My Dad told me to just leave it alone. Back then there wasn't an internet, LS, nothing but me a a couple of fifths of Black Velvet.

 

I've done a lot of reading ~ talking to other people about all of this ~ lots of research etc. Still doing it today, (although I've got to start spending more time on the Marriagebuilder's Website. I'm single, and don't have any prospective brides lined up)

 

BTW, I'm a man. And, what I'm about to write is based upon my experince, knowledge, reading, research.

 

First off the bat your marriage is probally over. And, that coming from someone who got "married in a fever" after a short courtship. The process of seduction (not necessarly to be viewed in the context of a strictly sexual nature, nor a bad thing) is a dance. With the man always leading. Just like any dance there are certain movements, and steps you have to take and repeat over and over and over again to become and be good at it. Inter-personal relationship skills are just that ~ skills. That is to say they can be learned and repeated if not with 100% per cent success ~ often enough to where they are valid.

 

Its like taking a walk down a garden path, with the path lined with stones. You must step and cover each stone, miss even one stone ~ and you'v got to go back to start, and start over again. (Which to be successful at it your going to have to do anyway ~ so get use to the idea)

 

Part of the seduction "dance" is closely akined to sales. Which is why any really good salesman is usually a good ladies man. The first thing you've got to do is the meet and greet. That's the first stone. Then you've got to "qualify" her as to what her wants and needs are (in this case what are her physical and emotional needs), and then you've got to feature and beneifit the product (yourself) and how the product can meet and fulfill those needs. Then you have to overcome her objections, (Her "Yea! Buts..........) and then you've got to "close" her. And keep her closed, and then you've always have to got to repeat the process.

 

All of this involves building rapport, and trust. That's why I say your marriage is over ~ you've lost your rapport with her, and you've lost her trust. Usually once its gone in a "normal" relationship (whatever the hell that is), there's no getting it back. With the situation that you've described it would be just easier to get your head together, and learn from your mistakes and move on to the next one.

 

There are no shortage of women! The world is covered up with them, Tall ones, short ones, big ones, little ones, White ones, black ones, and in-between. There's a Jack for every Jill, and a Jill for every Jack. There's a freak for every freak. Here in Alabama of all places a (this gets so confusing) "real" woman married a non-pre-operative transsexual, who has had him/herself castrated, and they swear un-dying true love.

 

Dude, if they can find true love ~ so can you!

 

The bottom line is that if you've any chance of getting back with your wife, it won't be through sending flowers, gifts, cards, poetry, jewelry, and swearing your true un-dying love. Give me a freaking break! Women have been hearing this ever since the first guy got a crush on them in elementary school.

 

If you want to be a sucess at anything, find out what 90% or better the rest of the world is doing and then do the oppossite. Therapist, marriage counselors? They're divorce rate is the same as everyone else. Pastors? They cheat on their wives just as much if not more. And that's a cold hard fact! I come home and find the preacher in my house with just the wife ~ there had be a dead body laying around somewhere he's saying last rites over!

 

You didn't elude to what kind of drugs she's doing. If its just alcohol and pot ~ its a toss up. But, if its crystal meth ~ forget her and move on with your life. She'll drag you down in different levels of hell you never knew exsisted.

 

I put my wife up on a pedestal, and in my eyes she could do no wrong ~ and in a way I've got a lot to think her for ~ for having broke my heart and rocked my world. My perspective has changed. These days, the way that I look at it, I've got a lot more to offer (and lose) most women ~ than most women have got to offer me. They've got to have someting besides just sex or the offer of ~ before I give up all that I've got to offer.

 

It blows me away how some men will give up everything for a piece of tail? I know one guy who lost his job, his carrer, his wife, his home, his chldren all in one day over some gal that isn't nothing, and has nothing to offer. Nothing. She has the earning capacity of an illiterate illegal alien who doesn't even speak the English language. She's not that attracitve. The only thing I've heard about her, is that she's up for anal sex. (Not my cup of tea personally!)

 

Me? I'm 49. College educated (finance) well read, well educated formally and in-formally, (but can't spell ~ some kind of learner's block) well read.

 

My advice? Forget this woman! The time, effort, energy, money you will spend on her ~ would net you ten or more better, more interested, more caring, more loving, more co-operative women. More appreciatve women. What one will abuse ~ another can certainly use.

 

She's gone ~ and she's not coming back. That's just the way it is, and the sooner you accept that fact, the better off you're going to be.

 

The problem isn't that she's gone~ the problem is the lack of self confidence that you will find someone else? That's becuase your strategy is all wrong! Your tactics are all wrong? And, that's because you lack the "skill set" and "nerve" to go anywhere and meet and find desirable women.

 

LS won't let me link you, but Goggle the subject. Key words to Goggle are Meet women, dating dynamics, dating. Read! And learn.

[Gunny376]

All I can say is that this poor girl is clueless. How many women do we hear lamenting about there not being any good men out there and here she goes and throws away a perfectly wonderful one. Geez and puhlease Louise!

 

I told my daughters they shouldn't marry anyone who doesn't cry at the end of Old Yeller when they have to shoot the dog. So my daughter watches the movie and says, "Um, I didn't cry at the end of Old Yeller, so what now?" Movies have changed so much since then I'm not sure we can see it as anything but a slow B movie now, but gosh I cried and cried over that poor rabid dog.

 

"Bridge Over Madison County" (A Lifetime of love lived within a week!)

"The Alamo" (All gave some, some gave ALL!)

"Old Yellar"

 

As a kid, I use to love the old war movies. Shows like "Combat" and "Twevle O'Clock High" , but now with PTSD, etc, I can barely watch the news and the History Channel. No need to watch it, when you've lived it!

And, it ain't no joke! I watch that stuff, and it will send me on the back forty for a couple of weeks, with just a good old dog, a fire to poke at, and some whiskey. That I don't need! Nor want!

[Becoming]

PTSD is no joke, that's fer sure, G.

 

I wonder sometimes if our whole society isn't living in varying degrees of trauma, which would explain why we have a hard time facing reality head on. Modern life and its demands and pace is rather violent in various ways--not to diminish your extreme experiences, G.

 

But it seems we're all walking wounded in varying degrees of shock. Maybe that's always been true. Surely running from raptors was no picnic, but still . . . something's wrong when we see situations like Diesel's all the time.

 

Or maybe that's just the concentrate of LS.

[Gunny376]

Thanks "B", you're Good people! A good person! Its Hell being just fine one moment standing in the middle of the parking lot at WalMart, when one of your "triggers" hit you that "sends you" and then you have to duck and cover. People who look at you and say, "What's his problem?

 

No doubt it had a hand in the breakup of my marriage. My withdrawing within myself. No use in discussing it, not relative point of comparission. Just another dead horse to drag around with you everywhere you go. Its gotten old, and slowly but surely either I'm getting use to dragging the SOB's around with me and/or letting them go.

 

Um! Ah! Anyway, meanwhile back the ranch, Grandma was fighting off the Injuins.

 

Diseal, what I would like to see you do is just let her go man. For your own sake, and your own soberity (been therr Bro ~ believe me). Get your head and azz wired back together. Do what works, and this relationship isn't working for you Bro. And, its not. It takes two to make it, and only one to break it. I know its all day hard, but its do-able. Your already kicking azz on one hard to break habit ~ look at this as just being one more. Get yourself a cup of Joe, settle in and get comfortable here at LS. I know you love her Dude, but the first thing that you've got to get wrapped around your head is the conception that its entirely possible to be absolutely in love with the very person that is the most toxic for you! That is the worse person for you mentally, emotionally, pyschologically.

 

I honestly think your decision to get sober ~ is a lot of her issues with her, and you've got to get sober. Life is truly short ~ too short, and going through it drunk and stupid is no way to be. And, that's what I was drunk and stupid. And, that's how the world saw me! Of course the "world" wasn't there when I was alone at night, when my "ghosts" and "demons" came to keep me company.

 

Me, myself and I, after the breakup (a re-bound relationship by the way) I gave myself a break. I told myself ~ "Man, I've got to get it togehter, I've got to figure this out? There are lessons that I've got to learn ~ that I'm just not getting. Its been years, and the more I learn, the more I learn how much there is to learn? There were things I had to deal with and come to terms with ~ and I had to do it alone. I had to reconcile the past with the present. I had to come to terms that there are places I can't go to anymore, and things I can't do anymore. Ordinary things.

 

Once you've danced with the Devil, you don't change him ~ he changes you!

[DieselPWR]

Gunny,

very good points that you bring up. I have the acceptance thing to work on. Its not very easy to say that its over, but I know it is. The problem is my head knows it, everyone else knows, but somehow it still hurts.

I have given up chasing, calling, etc. I am not going to shower her with anything. At this point, she ain't worth it. You said it best when you said that you can be in love with someone wthat is toxic to you. How true. I can look back now, with a clean and sober mind that she was not good for me, and that eventually she would have driven me crazy. That being said, I can't really say that I regret the relationship. There were alot of good things about it that have become lost in the mix.

She isn't an addict that I ever knew of; hell, if I saw her drink a glass of wine at dinner, that was a pretty special occasion. But then again, there were alot of things that I have found out about her in the last month. She mentioned at one time about my true colors. Well, she has shown her true colors and I don't care for them not one bit. As nasty as she's gotten in the last month, I see who she really is. Lying, manipulative, and able to turn anything around to suit her cause.

As for starting over, I know that I will be able to do it. The only thing is that I have been out of the game for 2 years and I was never really that good at it anyways. But I know that I will get back out there and find someone that really appreaciates me, and the things I do. I have been and will always be a hopeless romantic, so if a woman can't accept that i want to buy her flowers, candy, etc, she will need to look elsewhere. I have said before, I am not trying to use that as a sales tecnique as you call it; its just something that I like to do. I know that the right woman is out there for me and I just have to be patient and see where and when it happens. I see now that nothing I say or do will get W back. She has made up her mind, and she is sticking to it. That's cool, I don't need or want someone that doesn't want me back. Cause what would happen IF she came back? Maybe six months to a year go by and she'll pull the same BS. I can look back at e-mails and conversations and see how much of this marriage was built on lies and fantasy. She has said that I am playing an injured spouse and I guess I am. It just hurts when you realize that you've been duped and that everything you believed and saw was a load of crap. But as is life sometimes, you gotta take the good with the bad and learn from both. I am just glad that she left when she did at this point. I don't know that I would've put up with this when I got sober. She saw that when I got sober I was more assertive and confident, and that she wasn't going to be in total control all the time. Funny thing is, she accused me of being controlling, when in fact she ran the relationship from day one. I think it was you, Gunny, that said the person that has a less interest in the realtionship is the one that runs it. And ain't that the truth in this case. I jumped through hoops, etc just to keep her happy. Cause when she wasn't happy, no one was.

Moving on, and up outta of this pit that I used to call my life. Sure, there are rough times ahead, cause If I didn't love her, none of this would matter; I would've moved on the nite that she left. I am just taking my time in the healing process.

[Lor]

Hey me. Gotta wonder, after 2 month (you said?) of NC, why all the sudden is she sending you nasty grams? Its so hard not to respond to them but I hope you aren't.

 

Oh and sleeping with the cell phone, unless she uses it as an alarm like I do, she was hiding something.

 

2 years out of the game isn't all that long. And you're young, right? Never did catch your age. You've got a lot going for you. Keep going strong and remember that you deserve better.

[DieselPWR]

Well it hasn't been completely NC, we still have limited contact because of bills, etc. Most time she e-mails me, it is in response to the buisness stuff I have written about. However, she always has to throw a few daggers into my heart, and accusing me of not accepting blame for this situation.

The last one she had to start talking about how my parents had disrespected her, and how her parents had been nothing but pleasent to me. Not true at all, but she is trying to push my buttons. I also think she is saying all these things to make herself feel better about the situation, and not taking any blame for this. She has accused me of trying to shun any responsibility, and playing the hurt one in this whole thing, while I am accusing her of being irrational, etc. Oh yeah, accused me of implying that she should beg to come back. None of which is true. I think that she is doing all this to feel better about her decision, which tells me that she is feeling some sort of regret, but will never tell me such.

The cell phone thing did raise some eye brows, she did use it as an alarm, but she could've easily plugged it in on the kitchen table like she always did, while she slept on the couch.

I am realitively young, I guess. I just turned 26. I don't feel young, but in the scheme of things, I guess it ain't too bad. I will be better off in the long run, and hopefully she gets the help that she needs. Her problem is that she is in complete denial of her problems, cause everyone tells her it's my fault, and she honestly believes it.

The worst part? I still cannot find myself angry at her. I don't think that's necessairly a bad thing, it just shows that I was truely in love. I am slowly falling out of love at this point, very slowly but starting the acceptance thing. All these nasty e-mails have done the opposite of her intentions, they are helping me speed my healing.

I am not responding to the e-mails, and I think that will anger her even more. I don't know though, she seems to have done this so quick to move on and out, that I think she is truly done and ain't looking back. Course could be cause she has already found someone else, but to be honest with you, I don't really want to know. 4 + months till D-day. A few weeksbefore Christmas, and close to another special day. Oh well, moving on, and I will do much better the next time; I will be much more cautious. The only thing is I have to find new places to meet good, wholesome women that are healthy for me. But, I will prevail, and have little doubts that she will do this again. This is not the first time she has done a similar thing, but the first time she got married, the other one ended before, tho I wish she would've done this before the wedding. I am not sure if there have been others, but at this point it wouldn't come as a terrible shock

Final verdict, if she came back, I know that I would take her back, even tho I know that she isn't healthy for me. I still love her, and would be willing to try and get her the help that she needs. But, if she wasn't willing to work on herself, then I have no need for someone that won't admit they have a problem, and not willing to work on themselves or their relationship. There shouldn't be a "You" and "Me" all the time. While indivuality is a good thing, there should also be an "US" that we need to work on. Newlyweds should want to spend alot of time together, not seperate. But I am rambling now, so I will end it.

Me

[Lor]

Since she was using her phone as an alarm I wouldn't read too much into her sleeping with it. Its a waste of mind space to worry about it anyway. I sleep with mine most of the time--mainly cuz I have a hard time waking up. Then again, that's when I usually flip it open and closed and go back to sleep.

 

26 is young; I'm turning 35 (oh my ) this year. You've got a lot of livin' in you yet and are just starting-IMO-to reach the age where men start to mature.

 

That's great that you aren't responding to the hate-mail. I'm sure it goads her to no end. As you said, you can't help her unless she's willing to help herself and she sounds rather immature at this point. Don't really know what she's looking for in a relationship but seems she's the one not happy. It's just too bad she had to drag you down, too. Sorry to hear that it'll end around Christmas--that's harsh. Mine will end around Oct/Nov if I get it filed soon. Doesn't seem real, does it?

[DieselPWR]

35 Years young! Just like me, you still got a while to go. Some people aren't even married by then. Now you have expierence and knowledge to work with.

I guess that she will need to file before then in order to get it done by the end of the separation, but that is all on her, I am not wasting my effort to give her what she wants so bad. That way, I can look back and know that I did not aid or abet in this whole thing. I have told her all along that, although this is not what I want, I cannot stop her and will support her by signing things when they come in without stalling. I am waiting on the revision of the separation agreement, as the first one was wrong. I hsould be recieving that this week, have my attorney review it, and be done with that.

As for e-mail, I am determined not to stoop to her level, so again, I can look back and be confident that I was the better person, no matter how mean, hateful the other is. Also, I can know that, through these e-mails that she is lying and that most of what we had was built on a bed of lies. I think what she is looking for in a relationship is something that she will have a very hard time finding. I think we were both very immature in this whole thing. I think I was also expecting something that I wasn't gonna get. A woman that would cook, clean, etc. That was unrealistic in this day and age, but having a wife that supported me (emotionally) wanted to spend time with me, do things together, and share secrets with each other without fear of having it shared with the world. Those things are realistic, and I didn't have that. I had it at the beginning, but it went somewhere a while ago.

She's made her bed, let her lie there. If I am there, fine, but also if I am not, fine. Thanks for the help.

[Mz. Pixie]

Eh, in looking at the signs, yeah it does seem that she had someone else.

 

Usually women leave and stay gone due to another man. Without that, she'd probably have been a little more willing to try and work things out.

 

Let me clarify, I'm not saying that my husband did those things ONLY to get some. I'm sure he enjoyed doing it. I know he enjoys spoiling me. The difference is I enjoy spoiling him too. I get up and run him a bath in the middle of the night if he doesn't feel well!

 

I think your email telling her you'd be willing to work on it is spurring her on. She's probably angry because you're not begging her to come back- that you're being rational.

 

I had to laugh at your comments about getting a wife who cooked and cleaned!! Good thing that's not what my husband wanted before he married me. I clean, but I'm not a cook. He's the cook in the family.

 

It's really more about finding your balance in life. I don't like to cook, but he grew up with his dad doing all the cooking so he likes to cook. I don't enjoy paying bills so he does it. He doesn't like to deal with insurance or dr's appts or things like that- so I do that. I do most of the housework and we share laundry. As long as you and your partner balance each other out then that's what makes it work!

[DieselPWR]

I was thinking the same thing, she wanted me to beg and plead, and when she saw that I didn't or wasn't going to, she got mad and started the offensive; I would think that if she in fact did have someone else, she'd leave me the heck alone. Or maybe she did get involved, move too quick and now reality is setting in. Too many possibilities that I really don't care about at this point. If she wants to talk rationally, she can call me or e-mail. Other than that, I am leaving her alone. Cause I ain't going to go and make a butt of myself. I am too proud for that, and I know that it isn;t going to work, it will just cause me more pain, and suffereing. Nope, I am moving on, with or without her. And if she is with someone else, I hope he treats her good and can put up with her little quirks. I know I did for a long time, albeight I was drunk a good bit, but when I was sober, I was extremely patient with her.

All I know is that I am working on me, and life will go on.

Now that I am sober, I clean my house all the time. I dare anyone to find clothes on the floor, a dirty bathroom, kitchen, you get the picture. I never told her that I expected those things, but she took charge of the house when she moved in and that's the way it was. I kept the outside nice, she took care of the inside. Then all of the sudden, she decided that I should be doing both, we each do our own laundry, cook our own dinner, etc. You get the idea, she decided that she had been my "Slave" and she used that as yet another excuse for going. Yeah, she probably met someone else and was waiting for me to screw up, which I did and then she was guilt free. But the grass isn't always greener, and maybe someday she will realize what she gave up. But then again, maybe not. Either way, its not my concern what she's doing or who she's doing it with. Even though she is still legally my wife, the love is gone on her end, and is fading on mine. So, wherever she is I hope she's happy.

I know I am happy to be sober, happy to be getting my life back. Lonliness is only temporary, and I will be better the next time around.

[Lor]

In your next relationship are you going to try and have 50/50 with the housework, etc, or will you still try for the inside is hers, the outside is mine? I had the same gripes in my M; I was a slave to him when it came to the house. Every now and then he would make supper--maybe twice a week in the winter, once a week in the summer. He wouldn't help me clean, said he wouldn't do laundry because I complained he didn't do it right one time--only about 9 years ago. He didn't have an answer for me when I said, okay you won't throw a load in the wash; why can't you throw a load in the dryer? He wouldn't do dishes, he never vacuumed even once. He's been trying harder now since I'm not there but I've still seen stuff on the floor that's been there since I moved out at the beginning of May.

 

Maybe I wouldn't have minded so much if I didn't have to do some of the outside work, too. I love being outside but when you have 3 kids, a house, a full-time job, about 2 acres to mow and a garden to tend to, come on!

 

On a side note, maybe next time she sends you a nasty email, send one back saying exactly what you said: If you want to talk rationally, you can email or call me. That may catch her attention and get her to quit? Or, everytime she sends one, keep sending the same line back. Eventually she'll take the hint. Is she the type of person to throw mean stuff at you if she had someone else? some women are like that, others are not. They would just get on with it if they really weren't wanting you back.

 

Could be her feelings are hurt.....somehow?? Otherwise why be antagonistic?

[DieselPWR]

Lor,

I would be more than willing to go 50/50 the next time around. In fact, had I been asked rather than ordered, I would've done it this time around. I am not a filthy person, and like to live in a clean house. My apartment before I moved in with her was spotless at all times. And that was with two ferrets in a 1 BR apt. But, I let my drinking get the best of me, and I let that get away from me. Now, I clean my house everyday. I very rarely don't do laundry every other day. Never dishes left in the sink, grass stays cut, etc. I know that given that second chance, she would be amazed at how the house looks. But I know now that I won't get another chance, so that's a moot point.

But as for the e-mails, I honestly don't know what she's doing and why she's doing it. When she got rid of the last guy before we met, she never had anything to do with him. There was nothing legal between them, so they moved on. But I don't know why she would even bother to e-mail me nasty stuff, unless she is trying to justify her actions , if in fact she has met another person. In the past, she very rarely kept bringing things up. If I screwed up, admitted fault, and she forgave me, that was it. It wasn't brought up again. But she doesn't seem like she's dropping this and that's confused the hell out of me. Not cause I think she's coming back, or anything of that sort, but because its just not her. She may have some bad qualities, but she never had been vendictive. Mean at times, yes. Ridicule me, yes. But never one to keep throwing the same sand in my face trying to provoke an argument. But, it used to be that she knew that she could get an argument started very easily because I was drunk. Now that I am clean, she can't get the same argument, and it seems to be frustrating her. She isn't blatently mean, and vulgar, but the things she says seem to be trying to provoke something, and I am not sure why. She says things that she knows cuts me like a knife, stuff like accusing me of not doing anything to save the marriage, or things like accussing me of trying to get sympathy, etc. She seems like she is over it, and done, but she keeps throwing the same stuff in my face. I know her feelings are hurt by my actions, and some of the things that I said when I was drunk. I have apologized for that, and told her that I am asking her forgiveness. I told her that there was nothing that I could say that could take the hurt out of some of my words. But also, she takes things the wrong way. Like when I asked her when she was getting her S**T out, I didn't mean that it was garbage or junk. I just use that word as an acronymn for stuff in general. I think when I told her that she needs to live her own life, not her mothers hurt her. But that is something I am not really sorry for saying. The truth had to be told, and whatever happens with US, she needs to realize that if she is ever going to make any realtionship work. I am sure I said other things under the influence, and I have apologized for hurting her in anyway, however she has not once apologized to me for turning this around to suit her.

I think that if I leave her alone completely, she'll get tired of arguing with herself, and maybe that'll cause her to think about things realistically. If she keeps getting responses from me, she will still know that she is getting to me and that I am still not giving up hope. But if I break all contact, except for buisness, which there is none left. She has one box of her stuff that someone should be picking up at my house soon. If I break up the contact, she'll see that 1. I'm done trying to rationalize things 2. I am moving on, with or without her and 3. She ain't getting to me anymore, and isn't in control anymore.

Those three things should at least cause her to think about the situation and maybe look back at my old e-mails, read them again, and decide for herself what she wants. None of this is her, I don't think. I think she is getting so many outside influences that she is believing these things. And when she sees that she isn't controlling my life, she will back off and do her own thing. Cause as long as I tell her in ways that I still care, and that I can't bear seeing her without losing my mind, she still has the upper hand, and I don't want that anymore. Should she ever want to talk, sure I'd talk, but I think I would be very weary of anything she would say at this point, but keep an open mind.

Me

[Lor]

me oh my.....

 

Hey there. You know I think you're right; she keeps doing it cuz she can't get a rise out of you. She will either let it go and leave you alone or she will show up to see if she can get one person to person. Somehow it seems like she's feeling hurt by you, maybe because you managed to turn things around without her. It doesn't sound like she is too hurt by the loss of the relationship. NC is the best way to go for your own sanity, same as for me, but it's hard sometimes.

 

You sound like you have given up most hope, although not completely. Same as me. I have fantasies every now and then of bended knees, flowers, and pleading but then reality comes crashing back down and remember that I was the one on bended knees and pleading. Besides, I'd never get the flowers. Keep being my shoulder, huh? You're a good friend!

 

Still haven't solved the ferret/plant problem except to move them outside--the plants, not the ferrets.

[Mz. Pixie]

Maybe she's not happy and is taking it out on you??

 

More than likely she hasn't accepted responsibility for her part in the problems that ended your marriage. My exhusband hasn't either- even though he says he has. If he had, and truly moved on (he's remarried and so am I) then he wouldn't find it necessary to be as ugly to me as he is, and be so sarcastic to me. I don't do that to him. I just want things to be nice for my kids and that's it.

 

No matter what happens, every person has fault. Now, it can be 50/50 fault or 90/10 fault but every person has to own their part.

 

My husband likes to have a clean house too, and he can clean it just as well as I can. But he works two jobs and I always feel that I should do those things to make it easier on him.

 

Let me tell ya- the grass is not always greener that's for sure. My husband's ex wife? She started her affair when their son was around 20 months old. She was gone by 24 months old and pregnant by the OM before their divorce was final. All because he became a teacher (his dream job) and that required him to work a second job to pay for extras and medical bills (their son had alot of health problems). Lots more to the story according to his friends and his parents. Anyway, they had a beautiful home and nice things but it wasn't good enough for her. He loved her and treated her well in addition to that and his parents were very generous with her.

 

She's married to the guy she left him for. They live in a tiny tuna can home. She's bitter all the time because of money. She's always trying to get something out of my husband's parents too because they are comfortable financially. I wonder how it would be to be her husband- and know that my wife was going to her ex inlaws because I wasn't providing for her?? There is never enough money according to what she tells my MIL. We ourselves pay for all of his medical expenses, and I'm glad to do so so that he can have the medical care he needs, but we just took a wonderful spa vacation three weeks ago.

 

He's such a doll to me- honest, handsome, sexy, hardworking, working his dream job, loves my kids- is generous to a fault- good in bed- faithful, considerate. She was STUPID! He would have tried to work it out with her if she would have wanted to try, but I'm so glad that she didn't. Her loss has been my gain.

 

It will probably be the same story with you.

 

He was just telling some of his co workers how he was divinely blessed today because he had the opportunity to marry me. See, he'd never been loved like I love him, and I'd never been loved like he loves me. A perfect match!

[Gunny376]

Maybe she's not happy and is taking it out on you??

 

More than likely she hasn't accepted responsibility for her part in the problems that ended your marriage. My exhusband hasn't either- even though he says he has. If he had, and truly moved on (he's remarried and so am I) then he wouldn't find it necessary to be as ugly to me as he is, and be so sarcastic to me. I don't do that to him. I just want things to be nice for my kids and that's it.

 

No matter what happens, every person has fault. Now, it can be 50/50 fault or 90/10 fault but every person has to own their part.

 

My husband likes to have a clean house too, and he can clean it just as well as I can. But he works two jobs and I always feel that I should do those things to make it easier on him.

 

Let me tell ya- the grass is not always greener that's for sure. My husband's ex wife? She started her affair when their son was around 20 months old. She was gone by 24 months old and pregnant by the OM before their divorce was final. All because he became a teacher (his dream job) and that required him to work a second job to pay for extras and medical bills (their son had alot of health problems). Lots more to the story according to his friends and his parents. Anyway, they had a beautiful home and nice things but it wasn't good enough for her. He loved her and treated her well in addition to that and his parents were very generous with her.

 

She's married to the guy she left him for. They live in a tiny tuna can home. She's bitter all the time because of money. She's always trying to get something out of my husband's parents too because they are comfortable financially. I wonder how it would be to be her husband- and know that my wife was going to her ex inlaws because I wasn't providing for her?? There is never enough money according to what she tells my MIL. We ourselves pay for all of his medical expenses, and I'm glad to do so so that he can have the medical care he needs, but we just took a wonderful spa vacation three weeks ago.

 

He's such a doll to me- honest, handsome, sexy, hardworking, working his dream job, loves my kids- is generous to a fault- good in bed- faithful, considerate. She was STUPID! He would have tried to work it out with her if she would have wanted to try, but I'm so glad that she didn't. Her loss has been my gain.

 

It will probably be the same story with you.

 

He was just telling some of his co workers how he was divinely blessed today because he had the opportunity to marry me. See, he'd never been loved like I love him, and I'd never been loved like he loves me. A perfect match!

 

What I'm about to wirte, doesn't apply to all women ~ but enough to make you think it does.

 

WTF was her problem ~ aside from being a mental case? Oh, that's right he worked all of the time working two jobs to keep the Princess in her castle. BTDT! Worked the two jobs ~ the whole package.

 

I kept telling my XW ~

 

"You can either play now and pay later, or your can pay now and play for the rest of your life!" She never did grasp the concept of what in the Hell I was trying to tell her!"

 

"We've got to plan as though we're going to live forever, yet be prepared as though we're going to die tomorrow!" To which she responded that that was stupid and I didn't have any common sense.

 

I kept trying to fund a Contingency Fund equivalent to one years living expenses, and to fund other savings pegged for anticipiated expenses such as auto maintienance, tire replacement, insurance deductables, insurance premimums (pay annually or semi-annually and get a cheaper rate)

 

There are some men and women dwho think you're actually suppose to spend every last freaking dime that you make. They're also the one's that think you're actually are suppose to live the Beverly Hill's lifestyle working just a 40 hour week. There isn't anyway of satisfying, making these kind of people. You can't please them you can't make them happy, you can't satisfy them, and if you did ~ you don't know how in the Hell you did ~ nor how to repeat the process?

 

She's always trying to get something out of my husband's parents too because they are comfortable financially.

 

WTF?~!!!!!!!! She's got nerve ~ you've got to give her that! Either that are she's a card carrying nut case.