How can something so wrong feel so right?

[feelssoright]

I have been reading treads all morning trying to figure out which direction to take with my situation, but thought it might be easier to get the info directly to me and my situation.

 

I never in a million years, figured I would be in the situation that I am in today. I just don't know who to talk to anymore, and where to turn.

 

I am a MW, and am seeing a MM. This has just developed in the past couple of weeks, and I don't know where to go with it. I am 32 and he is 47. We enjoy eachothers company so so much, and always have a great time when we do steal moments together. He has been married for 20 yrs and myself 12.

 

I had marriage problems 5 years ago that almost ended in divorce (not because of any affairs), but because my H is a workaholic, and that comes before family. Well, since then we've bought another business, and the stress is all on me now. I run my business, raise my 2 kids, and do everything else...ALONE. I recently had a fight with my H, and told him that I needed more from him. His response was that he was not a machine, and could not do everything for everybody. More or less, that I would have to live like I am now, or live with it. He asked me if I would want him to move out, because it didn't seem I loved him anymore. My love for him , in a sense, has turned into anger more than anything. I didn't want to have to deal with this just yet, so I told him to stay. Today, I am kinda regretting it.

 

Anyway, the MM I am seeing, also has a non-love relationship with his wife. He says the sparks have not been there for a long time. She lives her life, and he lives his. Separately, but they still live together. They never do anything together. He is always alone while she goes out and does her thing. And this is not something he's fed me....I see it with my own eyes.

 

So, I guess you could say we are both very lonely. We never anticipated feeling like this about eachother. We enjoy the same community things, are on certain boards together, and work together alot. We have been friends for a couple of years now. To tell you the truth, there was time I couldn't stand him, never would I thought I would feel like I do about him today. I'm an avid walker, faithful to my walks every morning, where I would sometimes meet up with him and walk together. All we would do is talk . We would talk about everything. Then flirting made its way into our conversations, innocent flirting. Then one thing led to another, and he wanted to spend more and more time with me. This all just happened so fast. Although, we have not been further than kissing and hugging (which is all we need right now), I'm afraid someday it will lead there. Most of the time when we are together we are in public. We have only met once in private, and gone for a drive, where we talked and talked and talked and hugged. It feels so right to be in his arms, but yet my mind tells me it is so wrong. Is it wrong to feel so happy? Even though someone other than your spouse is providing the happiness. I dont' remember the last time I've felt so cared for and happy.

 

He has never done anything like this, and is just as confused about what to do as I am. I wish there was a book out there that could advise me on what to do.....but I guess this is the next best thing. I would appreciate anyones advice, opinions, or even critisism.

[Outcast]

Because 'feeling' is not a reliable gauge of what is 'right'. Bodies are built to make new bodies. That's about science. To do so, our bodies will create chemical conditions to convince us to copulate, which includes chemicals that make us think we're 'in love'.

 

You're just a tool of nature - don't romanticize it. It's the human condition.

[superconductor]

Outcast has it right on the money. There is much wisdom in her words.

[THX2000]

You seem to be more than willing to put the time in with this OM so what is stopping you from investing this time in trying to make your marriage work? Don't give me any cop outs about it - just think about it. You can take the time to have a relationship over and above all your other responsibilities in life so why can't you do the right thing and work on improving your marriage. Sadly, the answer is because the affair is more than likely the easy thing. No strings, you get your emotional "fix" and then get back out with no consequences......yet. Let me pose this question: what is going to happen if your husband finds out? What about your children? Stop making excuses and do the right thing and that is impossible with your husband then you should give him the choice to be with someone that would betray him behind his back and stay or leave. Tough love here but you know what's right.

[feelssoright]

Believe me when I say that I have tried to make my marriage work. It takes two. We've tried marriage counceling, and they told us we communicated too well to be there. We have always had an honest relationship, and have always talked, until I shut down about a year ago because I was tired of talking to a wall. How do you try to talk to someone who gets home from work and plops down in a recliner and doesn't want to be bothered? We use to do the best talking when we went to bed at night, but now he waits until I'm asleep to come to bed. What more am I supposed to do? I have tried, and I am tired of trying. Dont' get me wrong, I am not here blaming my H for our problems, I will be the first to admit that I've changed over the years. His absence has made me a more independant woman, and as I said before, made me bitter, and turned my love for him into resentment and maybe even hate.

 

As for the comment about" what will I do if he finds out".....I've thought of that. I've thought hard about that, and that is one of the reasons I ended up here. I feel that I need to tell the OM that we need to stop seeing eachother before not only my H but his W find out. That is not what we need happening. I do feel that should be done now, and not wait until it is too late. I guess...whatever will be will be. If it was meant to be, then we should be able to take care of both of our marriage problems, seperately, and move on from there......I just don't know!

[Meaplus3]

Believe me when I say that I have tried to make my marriage work. It takes two. We've tried marriage counceling, and they told us we communicated too well to be there. We have always had an honest relationship, and have always talked, until I shut down about a year ago because I was tired of talking to a wall. How do you try to talk to someone who gets home from work and plops down in a recliner and doesn't want to be bothered? We use to do the best talking when we went to bed at night, but now he waits until I'm asleep to come to bed. What more am I supposed to do? I have tried, and I am tired of trying. Dont' get me wrong, I am not here blaming my H for our problems, I will be the first to admit that I've changed over the years. His absence has made me a more independant woman, and as I said before, made me bitter, and turned my love for him into resentment and maybe even hate.

 

As for the comment about" what will I do if he finds out".....I've thought of that. I've thought hard about that, and that is one of the reasons I ended up here. I feel that I need to tell the OM that we need to stop seeing eachother before not only my H but his W find out. That is not what we need happening. I do feel that should be done now, and not wait until it is too late. I guess...whatever will be will be. If it was meant to be, then we should be able to take care of both of our marriage problems, seperately, and move on from there......I just don't know!

 

Your situation sounds pretty risky to me I can relate. I myslef am a MW who fell in love with a MM. Us like you two have never done anything like this before. My situation started as an E/A and then turned into hugging, touching. In my marriage as well as his something is clearly missing. Many whom posted to my questions advised me to get a DIVORCE first before continuing with an affair. At first I did not agree with that but now I do! It's been almost 9 weeks with NO physical contact and yes it hurts, but not as much as it would hurt if I and he destroyed the lives of our familes. At least now I can figure out if my marriage is worth saving. Good Luck.

AP:D

[lindya]

Anyway, the MM I am seeing, also has a non-love relationship with his wife. He says the sparks have not been there for a long time. She lives her life, and he lives his. Separately, but they still live together. They never do anything together. He is always alone while she goes out and does her thing. And this is not something he's fed me....I see it with my own eyes.

 

So, I guess you could say we are both very lonely...

 

It often seems to me that the loneliest people in the world are those in an unhappy marriage.

 

What would concern me about your situation - apart from the obvious - is that you and the MM might be feeding off eachother's unhappiness. It often happens when two people with a similar problem find eachother. You've said you have a lot of things in common, but reading between the lines that shared unhappiness seems to be the strongest source of the increasing bond between you.

 

I'm sure that rationally you can see the potential for destruction there. For idealistic "if onlys" to start governing all your thoughts, and for both of you to become increasingly reliant on fairy-tale, stress free times you spend together in order to get your emotional needs fulfilled.

 

Do you have any happily married, sympathetic female friends you could confide in about this? It might help to get a perspective from someone who hasn't got a vested interest in you remaining unhappy...and lovely though I'm sure the MM is, he probably knows deep down that continuation of emotional support from you depends upon your own marriage continuing to be an unhappy one.

[serial muse]

feels, there's so much anger toward your husband in your post that I suspect the OM is incidental. Of course, he's affecting how you relate to your husband now - introducing a third party into a relationship (both emotionally and physically) is going to do that, no getting around it.

 

But your post was really about your husband. You said:

 

We have always had an honest relationship, and have always talked, until I shut down about a year ago because I was tired of talking to a wall. How do you try to talk to someone who gets home from work and plops down in a recliner and doesn't want to be bothered? We use to do the best talking when we went to bed at night, but now he waits until I'm asleep to come to bed. What more am I supposed to do? I have tried, and I am tired of trying. Dont' get me wrong, I am not here blaming my H for our problems, I will be the first to admit that I've changed over the years. His absence has made me a more independant woman, and as I said before, made me bitter, and turned my love for him into resentment and maybe even hate.

 

First of all - did this come up in your therapy sessions?? If so, I can't imagine why they'd tell you you communicate too well to be there! That's insane.

 

My advice on that score is, if you are at all interested in trying to save your marriage, get a second opinion. (That's a big if.)

 

Back to your first post - after confronting your husband with wanting more time from him -

 

His response was that he was not a machine, and could not do everything for everybody. More or less, that I would have to live like I am now, or live with it. He asked me if I would want him to move out, because it didn't seem I loved him anymore. My love for him , in a sense, has turned into anger more than anything. I didn't want to have to deal with this just yet, so I told him to stay.

 

Okay. Yes. This is because he's knows he can't win here. I'm sure he's also angry because he senses that he's fighting an uphill battle. People do sense the what of things, even if they don't know the why. You must be aware that you have already created a deep divide - and you're continuously feeding it.

 

I know you were unhappy in your marriage before, but let me tell you, this is not a situation that's going to work for anybody. There's nothing wrong with wanting to be happy. There's nothing wrong with divorcing, if you think your marriage is over. But what's the point in sitting on the fence like this? You want him to do it for you? Are you trying to provoke him into leaving - without first asking for your input, that is - so that you don't have to make that decision? No, come on, that's cowardly. Everything you've written says you are done with him but you just haven't told him so yet. You said you told him to stay because you "don't want to deal with it" - not because you want him to stay. Which means you're just prolonging something that isn't going to go away. Then tell him to leave if you don't want to try anymore.

 

So, do you? Trying, by the way, does not mean just telling him what's wrong with him and the way he acts. There would have to be positive reinforcement, too. You acknowledged that your relationship has shifted due to both of you. So, in this context, if you wanted to try, you'd have to address your own behavior as well - and I'm not just talking about the affair - and figure out if there's a way to adjust so that he, too, could be happy again, and, well, actually want to talk to you. For whatever reason, he sure doesn't want to right now. (Honestly, and I don't mean this to sound quite as crappy as it's going to...but based on what you've said here, I really can't blame him. Who wants to go to bed, only to be chastised every night?)

 

I am not blaming you for his inability to communicate. That's something he'd have to figure out. But I wonder what the he!! went on in therapy, I'll tell you that.

 

Anyway. If you do want to give your marriage a chance, of course you'll also have to end the affair - otherwise, you're just paying lip service. There's a gulf there that your husband can sense, and of course he's angry about it, even if he doesn't know the details of the thing. After all - wouldn't you be?

 

Which brings me to a question I'm wondering if you've thought about. Suppose he were having an affair right now, too? Suppose that's why he's tired and distant - would that make you angry? (Or relieved?) If the thought of it - that the reason your husband is pissed off and distant all the time is because he's turning his loving attention elsewhere - makes you at all angry, then perhaps you can grasp some of the frustration he feels.

 

However. If the idea that he's having an affair just makes you relieved - then perhaps it's time to talk to a lawyer? No matter how long your affair has been going on, your problems with your husband have been going on far longer. It's the same advice you'll hear from many people on here, but - it would probably help you to know how you really feel if you gave yourself the chance to address those issues separately.

 

Here's my armchair diagnosis. It seems likely to me, based on what you've said, that you were extremely angry with your husband for a very long time, to an extent that perhaps you didn't even realize - and as a result, you entered into an affair (possibly to "punish" him for being distant and not paying sufficient attention to your marriage). Of course, the result of that action is that now you're the one causing the gulf, which is impossible to bridge as things stand. While the affair continues and your anger continues unabated, you will not be able to change a damn thing.

 

Perhaps you don't want to, and that's fine. Perhaps you just don't love the man, and damn it, you want out. How can you decide that, though, without first addressing your feelings toward him and understanding their root? Having an affair can be a really hostile thing to do. So, to an extent, you've "vented" some of that - how does it make you feel about your marriage, now? Are you even angrier that he doesn't seem to notice?

 

If you decide to go back to therapy, that's what I'd suggest addressing. But I'm by no means advocating staying in a loveless marriage. I just read a lot of fury in your words, toward your husband, and to be frank, I'm not really clear on whether it is loveless - or whether there's just so much anger that you don't know what to do with it all.

[whichwayisup]

No matter how long your affair has been going on, your problems with your husband have been going on far longer

 

An affair is usually a symptom, not the problem...Though, eventually the affair takes over and becomes the problem.

[Guest]

I wish there was a book out there that could advise me on what to do.....but I guess this is the next best thing. I would appreciate anyones advice, opinions, or even critisism.

 

Well I hate to criticize because I can't possibly imagine what it would be like to be in your shoes being married (feeling lonely, misunderstood, miserable and just unloved) and still feel some obligation to continue in the marriage. However, I can't rightfully validate your actions here.

 

Try to put your emotions aside and think with your head for a minute. This is not just about you. There are people's lives at stake here. As another poster said "What happens if both this mans wife and your husband finds out? No matter how miserable you are with the idea of being married to the worst human being on the planet, what you are doing is wrong and selfish.

 

You are not thinking about the innocent people here that will be affected by this affair including your children, your husband and this man's family you are only thinking about your own pleasure. I am resting the responsibility of doing something about this little affair with you right now since you at least feel some urgency about the situation. Obviously, Mr. Romeo doesn't seem to be the least bit concerned about how his actions could affect his family or yours so somebody has to be the bigger person and do the right thing here.

 

Am I suggesting that you stay with Mr. Groucho and be miserable the rest of your life? No, that is your decision, but you do need to make a decision and you need to do it now. Otherwise you will be adding this right at the top of your 10 Biggest Mistakes that you made to screw up your life list.

[GreenEyedLady]

I am curious. What is keeping you in your marriage right now?

[serial muse]

An affair is usually a symptom, not the problem...Though, eventually the affair takes over and becomes the problem.

 

Yep, I totally agree. That's why I said that about how having an affair is actually a pretty angry action. I'm actually relaying what a therapist said to me, as I sobbed and berated myself in her office after I found out. I was so confused and crushed anyway, and on top of that, my exH sounded kind of triumphant and hostile. I mean, wow. At the time, I absorbed it, because I was ready to believe it was all my fault. But now, looking back - it was just incredibly cruel.

 

Regardless, I wondered about that hostility, when he was the one who'd transgressed, and she said, well, having an affair is a pretty hostile thing to do.

 

And you know, she was right. It's an act of passive-aggression.

[Joelle]

It often seems to me that the loneliest people in the world are those in an unhappy marriage.

 

What would concern me about your situation - apart from the obvious - is that you and the MM might be feeding off eachother's unhappiness. It often happens when two people with a similar problem find eachother. You've said you have a lot of things in common, but reading between the lines that shared unhappiness seems to be the strongest source of the increasing bond between you.

 

I'm sure that rationally you can see the potential for destruction there. For idealistic "if onlys" to start governing all your thoughts, and for both of you to become increasingly reliant on fairy-tale, stress free times you spend together in order to get your emotional needs fulfilled.

 

Do you have any happily married, sympathetic female friends you could confide in about this? It might help to get a perspective from someone who hasn't got a vested interest in you remaining unhappy...and lovely though I'm sure the MM is, he probably knows deep down that continuation of emotional support from you depends upon your own marriage continuing to be an unhappy one.

 

I think Lindya makes a good point.

[ladyzero]

Forgive me, I haven't read this entire thread, but it's definitely not easy, is it? I'm a MW, in love with a MM. Right now, and for the past few months, the guilt has gotten to him (this is a first for both of us) and he's backed off. His wife is very controlling, so actually being with me is extremely difficult to pull off, b/c she has to know where he is at all times. So right now, he's trying his darnedest to put his marriage back together.

 

We haven't gone completely no contact, cause he doesn't want that, so I hear from him on occassion, and he doesn't sound any happier now than he did when we met. He's trying but things are the same. She sounds quite a lot like your guy's wife, really, in that she does her thing, except that his wife tends to let him tag along. She doesn't include him, in fact she tends to ignore him. My husband is a lot the same. He's a workaholic and has time for everything else but me (his computer games, his car, etc). It's a long story, but I've been so painfully lonely for ten years out of our ten year marriage (we have two kids).

 

Anyway, my MM is my best friend and I his. He and I are so close, emotionally, that he's told me more than once that I'm like a part of him, that he feels like "home" is my arms. We think alike, react emotionally alike, like a lot of the same things. We're so connected that I can feel him, feel his emotions. Were we both single, this would be one of those "once in a lifetime" relationships. Neither can imagine life without the other in it. Which is why he won't fully let me go. I've stepped back, trying to give him space, let him come to me (I don't seek him out anymore), because I want him to be happy, but I'm just as guilty because neither have I told him that we need to go completely no contact.

 

But as I said, I can feel him, emotionally, and even though I'm stepped back a bit and we have very little contact these days, I can still feel him. And I know he misses me the way I miss him. But I feel a lot like you do--how can it be so wrong to want to feel happy again? I've given my husband chance after chance after chance and I just keep getting set aside. But it is wrong, and I know it. He knows it. That fact alone is eating him alive. But we've also both discussed in depth why we need to be in the situation we're in. Which is also why we're now both trying to repair our marriages. (my effort isn't going so well...) But even as I say that, I know that we're both miserable doing so. I miss him terribly, even and especially just the friendship part, and when I close my eyes (if I meditate, I can get a feel for him better) I can feel that he misses me too.

 

Anyway, I'm afraid I don't have any answers for you. I can't figure myself out. lol But just wanted to let you know you're not alone. It's a tough situation with no happy ending. (((HUGS)))) to you.

[serial muse]

His wife is very controlling, so actually being with me is extremely difficult to pull off, b/c she has to know where he is at all times.

 

She sounds quite a lot like your guy's wife, really, in that she does her thing, except that his wife tends to let him tag along. She doesn't include him, in fact she tends to ignore him.

 

these two things seem contradictory.

[ladyzero]

these two things seem contradictory.

 

Well, you're right. It is contradictory. And perhaps a bit poorly stated--was having trouble finding my words yesterday--but nontheless it is the truth.