An update.

[uksurfer]

I'm hesitant about posting this, because I know what you guys are going to say...

 

Things are still pretty much the same here, except that she now seems to be stepping up the contact we have, and also saying some things that give me a little more hope. Not a dangerous amount of hope, but more hope, nonetheless. But before I go into that, I'll say that I AM detaching from all this, and that I'm getting on with stuff that I need to do, without worrying about how it'll affect her. And neither am I worrying about what she's doing as much now - even though she does still take up a huge amount of my headspace. Anyway, amongst other stuff, I have 2 trips planned for myself in the next three weeks (one with just me and the kids), and that I'm also doing a bunch of other stuff that I never had time for before. So all good.

 

Ok... last week, we went out to dinner with the kids and I joked about her moving back in. She said something like "I'm not moving back into THAT house", and I asked if it would be different if we had a different house. She just did this coy smile that virtually said 'yes' to me, however the kids came back at that point and the conversation didn't go any further.

 

The next night, she came back to babysit while I went out and we were chatting about houses before I left. She said something like "wouldn't it be great if we (meaning us) had a house with a garden for the kids?" And she went on to say something like "when we get another house, we'll get a shed in the garden so we can keep our bikes in there..."

 

Then, Tuesday this week, we took the kids for a walk on the beach then had a barbeque in the yard. As we were walking back from the beach, I said "buying our house was a mistake, wasn't it?" And she said "yes, it was". And it was a mistake, because it's turned into a money pit which virtually destroyed our social life over the last 18 months or so.

 

That night, before she left, she said that she wants to take me and the kids out for dinner (that's tonight ), and that she wants us all to head into town tomorrow to meet her for lunch during her lunch break. She also said that she'll be coming over the full day on Saturday, and probably Sunday, too.

 

Plus, when she left that night, she gave me the tightest and longest hug she's given me in a long while, and kissed me on the lips again - all totally unprompted from me. We're also back to having 20-strong email conversations while we're at work during the day (like we've done ever since we got together), and there are always at least a couple texts between each other every day, too. Strange stuff, too, like she'll text me to remind me to put the trash out and stuff like that.

 

Another thing - when she left last Sunday evening, she hugged and kissed me by the door and I pinched her bum (as you do ) just to see how she would react. She said "stop it, you", and I jokingly said "I know you like it". She smiled and jokingly said "no i don't!", and headed off down the street - but kept turning and waving at me as she went. I was wondering if she'd be pissed off at me for pinching her bum, but as soon as she reached the station (about 30 seconds later!), she started texting me some really chatty stuff about how busy the station was, etc, etc. Not what I'd have expected from someone who was pissed off at me.

 

She's also avoiding our neighbours (she'll use our back door if they're sitting out at the front), she's not speaking to her family much (doesn't return messages), and she went and stayed with her mum at the weekend and she didn't talk about any of this with her at all. I know this because her mum called me a couple of nights ago. Her mum thinks it's a pride/embarassment/losing-face-by-coming-back issue now - and so do I. Kinda.

 

But then again, I'm the MASTER of reading more into all this kind of stuff than was ever intended.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that I have a little more 'wait' in me yet. I'm planning on selling this house ASAP, and we'll see how things go from there.

 

Hey ho.

[Gunny376]

You pulled back

 

You cut back on the emotional support a bit

 

You started getting on with your life

 

You got busy getting busy

 

You started getting "cocky and funny" ~ tease to please ~ with her.

 

You got assertive.

 

You completely given up on being "needy" and "desperate"

 

Think about it?

[CryingCanuck]

Good luck to you UK I really hope the very best for you.

Please be careful with your feelings, I may have had the chance that you had and in many ways I think I blew it by being too nice, too fast, and pushing things wat too fast. Things like touching, thinking it's OK and her smiling and all that but not wanting the affection that way too soon.

I'm not trying to be negative buddy, it's just so much of what is happening with you has already happened with me. The new house possibility, the dating, the affection, heck three or four weeks ago we went out to dinner, played some pool had a few drinks and ended the evening "playing around" then the next weekend the **** hit the fan and today she's moving....

 

The moving part has been in the works for months now and today going to work I had to stop the car, regain my composure and head back here, I just can't stop the tears.......

 

So play it real cool and try to remember that things may not be as they seem.

 

CC

[Mz. Pixie]

Gunny has a point but this is actually the way I see it-

 

She's still getting emotional needs met by you. She's got the best of BOTH worlds here. She's single- living out of the house- can do whatever she wants to do, etc. But she's still got you there to spend time with- talk to- and be flirted with when she's not doing anything else. Of course she still wants you in her life- as a friend. I would have LOVED to have my exhusband as a friend, even though I didn't want to stay married to him. I did my best to make sure we could have a good relationship and a peaceful divorce so that I could keep him in my life. Guess what? He wouldn't stand for it. I have alot of respect for him (in that area) because of that. I either wanted to be married to him or I wanted to hit the road. There was no middle ground and still isn't. Which is cool.

 

If he would have stayed in contact with me, as his friend, how do you think his healing would have went?? Do you think he'd be remarried now? Hell no, he would still be mooning around over me.

 

It still smacks me in the face that she doesn't have her children. What mom gives up her kids??? That just doesn't seem right to me, at all.

[Lor]

I agree about being careful and still taking it slow. But its nice to hear someone who is having a positive reaction in these situations.

 

Sounds to me like all she's using her apt for is to sleep in and change clothes? And, unless I misinterpreted, she's spending all her free time with you and the kids? As far as her not wanting to have her kids, you are the stable one right now and they are better off with you. If she were to try and deal with them on a non-stop basis, it would make it harder for her to work out her problems.

 

As far as selling the house; I'd thought about that too in my relationship, how we could make a "fresh start/new beginning". If its that much of a money pit, it's a good thing to look into no matter what the outcome with her. You don't need to be sinking all your money into something like that.

 

Sounds like things are on track. I'd been wondering how things were going with you two.

[dgiirl]

Hey UK, I was starting to get a little worried. Thanks for the update I dont really have anything good to advise, cept, when you picking me up for our date!? I bet that would get her attention real fast

[uksurfer]

Sounds to me like all she's using her apt for is to sleep in and change clothes? And, unless I misinterpreted, she's spending all her free time with you and the kids?

 

Yeah, kinda. She still has a couple evenings a week at this room she's renting, but she's not going out living it large (I know this for sure, not least because on the nights she's not here, she's texting me stuff like 'remember to take the trash out' - because, like, if you're right in the middle of a lusty, torrid, sweaty, affair, the last thing you're going to do mid-action, so to speak, is text your husband, who's at home with the kids, and remind him to put the bins out, eh? But that's not the only reason I know this...) then at least 3 nights a week she comes here straight from work, and generally spends all day Saturday and Sunday over at our house, too. So yeah, in a sense, she is basically just sleeping, changing clothes, and occasionally eating over there.

 

I really don't think it's this fantastic life she imagined it to be. In fact, when she first moved out, she was quite upbeat about it... now every time I see her, she tells me something new about this room that she doesn't like - for example, there's someone in the next apt who's always on the phone really loud at 3am, there are doors slamming in the building all night, and the people she's sharing with stay in bed until 4pm most days, and blah, blah, blah... there's something new every time.

 

As far as her not wanting to have her kids, you are the stable one right now and they are better off with you. If she were to try and deal with them on a non-stop basis, it would make it harder for her to work out her problems.

 

Yeah, it does seem like the kids were part of her overall problem. All in all, I think *life* just got a little too much for her, to be honest, and her coping mechanism told her to bail.

 

Gunny has a point but this is actually the way I see it-

 

Pix - I totally understand what you're saying and yeah, sometimes I see it exactly like that, too. But then other times I don't. I guess I'm just giving myself the benefit of the doubt right now. I'm in no rush.

 

Hey UK, I was starting to get a little worried. Thanks for the update I dont really have anything good to advise, cept, when you picking me up for our date!? I bet that would get her attention real fast

 

Flight's booked. I'll be there at 8.

[Lor]

I know when I was going thru my "episode" about 2 years ago, everything my kids did irritated me. That didn't mean I didn't love them--not at all! I just couldn't handle the little every day crises. but in time I snapped out of it.

 

That is so good to hear that she's not happy where she is. but let her stay there till she's ready to make a move herself.

 

I was wondering about the glamorous single life she envisioned. Quite a while ago you'd mentioned that she was sounding so happy about the separation, etc when she'd talk to her friends. but now she's not talking to them a lot--its like bragging about how good of a job you did on something only to find out you actually did the whole thing wrong....no one likes to show their face after that.

[uksurfer]

I know when I was going thru my "episode" about 2 years ago, everything my kids did irritated me. That didn't mean I didn't love them--not at all! I just couldn't handle the little every day crises. but in time I snapped out of it.

 

That's just what my therapist said it sounded like when I explained my whole situation to him a couple weeks ago - an episode. And one of the things she said that really did jump out at me was that me and the kids are "always there". And now it's like she's had a little break and she's trying to be a bigger part of all of our lives again. Maybe.

 

its like bragging about how good of a job you did on something only to find out you actually did the whole thing wrong....no one likes to show their face after that.

 

Y'know, that's exactly how it looks to a lot of people we both know right now, including those friends she doesn't speak to much any more. I couldn't have put it better myself!

[Lor]

I really do hope that what you see and think are true and that her actions are sincere. There's a bunch of us on here that could use a happy ending.......

[ilmw]

I really do hope that what you see and think are true and that her actions are sincere. There's a bunch of us on here that could use a happy ending.......

 

*******************************************

I 100% agree with Lor...

It would be great to see someone on here have a happy ending....good luck...No pressure;)

 

ilmw

[Mz. Pixie]

If she had issues large enough to leave her children then IMO she should be in the mental hospital rather than renting a room somewhere.

 

What would she have done if she would have been a single parent and didn't have UK to take care of the kids?? Would she have socked them in foster care??

 

The "issues" she had were relating to the younger guy she was seeing. That was the issue. She still isn't moving home yet because she's edging her options. If it were truly only about her getting herself right- she could do that at home. Especially since she's over there most of the time anyway.

 

There is a reason somewhere she's not coming home.

[uksurfer]

She still isn't moving home yet because she's edging her options.

 

Maybe. You're talking about me meeting some of her emotional needs, and that may be true, too. But, how far does that go? We've swapped 36 emails while at work today, we've just been out to dinner and had a fantastic time, she was super quick to check that I'm still on for lunch with her tomorrow and she made sure that I hadn't forgotten it, she's decided to 'stay over' at our house tomrrow night, and this evening, she also casually said to me, "so, what are we doing at the weekend, then?" - meaning Saturday AND Sunday.

 

That's a big old chunk of needs being met there.

 

There is a reason somewhere she's not coming home.

 

I'm not going to bet the farm on this, but I'd say embarrassment. We were really close to most of our neighbours, and I'm not sure she'd ever live back here again because she'd have to face them every day. At least not for a while. Hence the strange "i'm not moving back to THAT house" statement she made last week - possibly.

 

But like I said, I'm not betting the farm on it. Not that I even have a farm, but anyway...

[Lor]

What would she have done if she would have been a single parent and didn't have UK to take care of the kids?? Would she have socked them in foster care??

 

No, she would have dealt with it, been miserable, the kids would have walked on eggshells, hoping to not upset Mommy because even the slightest little thing will set her off. And she would have snapped out of it, like she's doing now. Thank goodness she did have UK there.

 

I don't condone her leaving her kids or the OA but she sounds like a woman with "issues" if you want to call them that, who went thru depression and a mid-life crisis all at the same time. I highly doubt she ever quit wanting or loving her kids. Maybe the reason she's not moving home is she needs to make sure she has her head on straight completely so no more irreversible damage to their relationship will be done. maybe she's wanting to make sure she can forgive herself before coming back; she already knows UK will forgive and I think he's done a wonderful job of showing her that he can move forward after this.

[bab]

When was the last time you asked her what her plans are?

[Lor]

UK, as a thought, could you ask her if you were to sell the house, would she move into the new one with you? She could come back with a no, an I'm not sure, or a yes. It wouldn't hurt to ask. I wouldn't expand on it, just leave the question alone and let her think on it.

 

and I'm not buying the "we're just friends" bit. (fingers crossed)

 

Not all separations and divorces are ugly and bitter with one or the other being the jerk, idiot or bad person. sometimes separations do what they are supposed to do; give each of them time apart to see what they will be losing. What is the addage: Sometimes bad things happen to good people. Your W sounds like a good person who made some bad choices.

[uksurfer]

When was the last time you asked her what her plans are?

 

Umm, I guess about two or three weeks ago was the last time. It's gone from being...

 

"that's it, it's over and I don't even want to talk about it!"

 

...to...

 

"maybe I just need some time"

 

...to...

 

"give me some space"

 

...and finally, a couple of weeks ago, to...

 

"I just need to get my head together"

 

So I'm just dropping the relationship talk for now. I'm not touching her. I'm not trying to hug or kiss her. I'm not asking her if she wants to do stuff with me, or with me and the kids. I've done all the letters and the flowers and the poetry and the tears. She knows exactly how I feel. And at the minute, I'm backing right off. There's no pressure from me at all.

 

Right now, the moves are all coming from her. I'm just going with the flow, and seeing where it takes me.

[Becoming]

Not all women are good with kids. I swear there were days when I fantasized about getting in the car and just going. And one day I did. I had no idea where I was going. I just got in the car and drove. When I hit a major body of water, I stopped (seemed like a good idea!). I checked myself into a motel, which was about 4 hrs. from home, went for a walk around a lake (in the winter!), took myself out for some real Mexican food, went shopping, and then just slept for 14 hrs. straight. The next a.m. I was ready to go home. It wasn't exactly fair to DH to just leave like that, but it was what I had to do to keep from going insane that day.

 

I didn't pick up any younger men. (Geez, the last thing I need is another man:rolleyes: No offense, guys, but ya know.) It sounds like she was just totally overwhelmed with everything and went off.

 

But she does need to learn another way of dealing with her emotions. If the house is a huge $$ burden, I agree--sell it. Regardless of what happens to the relationship, it doesn't seem to be an asset at this point.

 

Is that just another thing you're going to end up doing all by yourself, uk?--selling the house--which is a huge job.

[uksurfer]

UK, as a thought, could you ask her if you were to sell the house, would she move into the new one with you?

 

Yep, I could. But I'm not sure that now's the right time. She's planning on getting a house herself, and has kinda hinted about me living there, but neither of us has directly said anything about this. It's like neither of us has the cojones to say it - so maybe it's not the right time to bring it up. Like I said, no pressure right now. What we're doing actually feels kinda nice to me.

 

Your W sounds like a good person who made some bad choices.

 

Yep, she is. And she has. And I think she knows it.

 

Is that just another thing you're going to end up doing all by yourself, uk?--selling the house--which is a huge job.

 

No, I've asked her about this and she's already said she'd help me.

[Lor]

Go with your gut feelings--if it doesn't feel like the right time then don't bring it up. I have to give you a lot of credit for how you are handling everything. There's not that many men I know who would be able to have the patience and commitment to wait her out, hold down their own business, and raise their two kids "alone".

 

Are you sure your brother is taken?

[Billy Bob]

I think your delusional UK. Your reading too much into her gestures. Flat out ask her what she wants, stop playing little games. If she really has plans on being with you she will tell you.. enough games, your two adults.

 

Your doing yourself no favors walking around on glass trying not to cut yourself.

 

Just my opinion.

[whichwayisup]

Everybody deserves a second chance...Though with that being said, I think things are moving REALLY FAST. And getting another house is NOT going to solve the problems. Sure, she may feel abit more comfy not facing neighbours etc., but that should NOT be the reason to go buy another house. You don't want to move from one place to another just to find out she is going to bail on you again.

 

You need to distance yourself abit from her, atleast emotionally - I can tell you're reacting inside to all the things she's doing - making efforts etc...Just shield your heart because she's still all over the map. Such extremes! One week acting one way and the next another.

[Ladyjane14]

I might just have to get a dish of popcorn, sit back, and watch how this thing comes out. It's back and forth every other week.

 

One thing seems pretty clear though... whenever you back off, she seems to make an advance. I bet if you actually filed for divorce, she'd be plastered to you like a wet shirt!

 

Anyway, as long as your comfortable doing what you're doing, why not? What's she gonna do?.... hurt your feelings? You're in the BTDT Club already.

 

Once you've experienced the prospect of permanent separation, and really lived in that moment, you lose your fear of it.... because you've withstood it. And having survived it once, you know that you can do it again if need be.

[Gunny376]

One of the things that hasn't come up is that a lot of what goes on between a man and a woman ~ occurs on the subliminal ~ sub-conscious level. That's a lot of what's going on with the wife ~ she's just overwhelmed with life ~ all of it.

 

American Country Music is replete with this topic. [COLOR=#0000ff]K.T. Oslin[/COLOR] wrote a song about it called "The Edge of Town" in which both the husband and the wife did what "Becoming" described ~ except neither one of them knew it until they turned the car around and went home as though they were coming in from their jobs ~ a normal day ~ and they discussed it.

 

The "dance" of attraction~seduction~rommance is a faily simple one made complicated by the madening interaction of running helther~skelter, too and fro of modern day, do all, be all, have all life.

 

We have all of these modern day labor saving devices, cars, etc and we're running ourselves ragged trying to keep up with the Jones' and have the biggest, badest, and latest gadget that comes out of Japan.

 

Per the song by Willie Nelson and Waylon Jennings, "This successful life we're living has got us feauding like the Hattfield's and McCoy's" ............"Four car garage and still adding on!"

 

I'm with LadyJane on this one. You file for divorce ~ she's going to be on your like a pack of hungry dogs on a sick three legged cat!

 

Per my most recent post ~ you pull away ~ and qut doing all the musshy, wussy flower giving~ poem~ letter writing stuff she becomes the close end part of the "rubberband man" You do the oppossite ~ she become "Bunggee-woman?" Do what works ~ man! Do what is working.

 

Forget what I are anyone else say, even what she says ~ do that which yield positive result, and the results that you desire. The key here isn't so much that you're the one in control ~ nor control, but that you as the man are leading the dance.

 

Quit being in-decisive, lead. Don't ask, decide. Be the man in the relationship is what she's wanting. What she's wanting and needing from you isn't flowers, nor letters telling her, she wanting and needing you to show her. She as a woman is wanting and needing you you to take the lead, for you to "man up" and be the "Alphamale" take prevue of your surroundings, and be a "man of action" and confidence.

 

I'm not so much advocating CTA's point, although it does have its merits and points ~ and very strong ones ~ but what I think CTA is advocating is this: Either lead, follow, or get the Hell out of the way.

 

Rent John Wayne's movie "McClintock" in the movie he had similar problems with his wife. When he got fed up, and took action look how his wife re-acted. Don't just watch it, study it.

 

If I were you, what I would do would be to march myself over to Miss "Thing" room, knock on her door. When she opened it, I'd grad her by the wrist and tell her she's coming home with me. When she protested, I'd tell her. "Your my wife! I'm your husband! Either we're married or we're not! You've got exacatly five minutes to grab what you can! This is a one time offer! Non-negotiable. Should you decline, I file for divorce tomorrow! What one woman will abuse ~ another can certainly use! You don't want what I've got to offer, there are plenty that do!"

 

And, then shut up, turn and walk a way! Don't say spit! Don't answer any of her questions nor protests! None of them! If you must say something, say, "Whatever, "Skirt" and sneer! Don't say anything more! Just walk! And, keep walking!

 

Then go NC, excpet to let her see and speak to the kids on your terms and at your convience. You treat her like the little brat that she's acting like. You don't give her carte blanche back into your house nor your life ~ she's got to earn it. She's not the one with the supply and you with the demand ~ the tables have turned. Its the other way around. Your the one with the supply and she's the one with the demand. Its not you that's got to win her back it her that's got to win you back. Its a "seller's market ~ and you can demand any price that you want! But, she had better act quick~ becaue there are plenty of buyers.

[Becoming]

Well, G, I respectfully disagree somewhat, fully appreciative of your wisdom and experience.

 

Absolutely, women want a man who will lead them in the dance. But if after saying I needed space my man showed up at my door and tried to drag me off like some caveman clubbing him a woman, I'd kick him in the balls.

 

Dancing is one thing, forceful dragging another. (Unless it's the tango, perhaps. )

 

Sounds like UK does have the situation under control--he's happy with things as they are right now.

 

I think we're concerned though about what G. says about living unconsciously, which does lead us to do crazy and hurtful things in the long run. Personally, I wouldn't want anything to do with a person who hurt me like your W did, UK, and then try to come back in like nothing happened, with no apology. (Is that right?)

 

Just because she's chosen to live unconsciously doesn't mean you have to. Without you calling her to confession and her contrition, you're gonna end up back in the same place sometime down the road.

 

When the time is right, you know you're going to have to face the ugly facts. Right now you're trying to reconnect as best you can so that that hard work can be done is what it sounds like to me. And that can be a fun time, if illusory.