An update.

[Lor]

if after saying I needed space my man showed up at my door and tried to drag me off like some caveman clubbing him a woman, I'd kick him in the balls.

 

Amen to that.

 

UK's W sounds like a very strong willed and stubborn woman who would never go for that kind of treatment. If he's content with the way things are going, and they seem to be going well, who are we to tell him he's doing it wrong? Sounds like he's not bending over backwards to accomodate his life for her, she's trying to reconnect at her own pace with him as a friend to start off with. and don't the best relationships start off as being friends? She's contacting him, she's initiating contact! Isn't that what everyone stresses?? To let the abandoning spouse do the contacting? Cripes almighty, that's all I hear--NC, NC, NC, let them come to you. Yet when she is, everyone else is not ready to see the good side but to still condemn. I'm an eternal optimist, which is not always a good thing, but why can't people be happy for UK instead of still telling him to file for divorce to force something to happen sooner that she is not ready to do? I agree he has to be cautious but IMO what he is doing seems to be working for them.

 

My fingers are crossed for you, UK.

[Mz. Pixie]

Maybe. You're talking about me meeting some of her emotional needs, and that may be true, too. But, how far does that go? We've swapped 36 emails while at work today, we've just been out to dinner and had a fantastic time, she was super quick to check that I'm still on for lunch with her tomorrow and she made sure that I hadn't forgotten it, she's decided to 'stay over' at our house tomrrow night, and this evening, she also casually said to me, "so, what are we doing at the weekend, then?" - meaning Saturday AND Sunday.

 

That's a big old chunk of needs being met there.

 

 

 

I'm not going to bet the farm on this, but I'd say embarrassment. We were really close to most of our neighbours, and I'm not sure she'd ever live back here again because she'd have to face them every day. At least not for a while. Hence the strange "i'm not moving back to THAT house" statement she made last week - possibly.

 

But like I said, I'm not betting the farm on it. Not that I even have a farm, but anyway...

 

Yup, SOME of her needs. Who is handling the hugging, kissing and sex part?? Certainly not you at this point.

 

That's the main reason someone who wants to eat cake tries to keep BOTH people around- the spouse and the other partner. Because although they might be crazy in love with the OP there are reasons to why they keep the spouse around. Most of the time it's because they enjoy the fun of the affair and the stability of having the other person there.

 

Look at it this way- she has no responsibility at this point. Not even her kids. If she even had them half the time on her own she might get the picture of how single life would really be, but as it is she doesn't even have that! Yet, she can come around, and there you are- right at her beck and call. You guys can hang out and spend time with the kids- without her having to be a full fledged wife and a mother- and then she can scurry back to her room and be a single woman the other part of the time. That's the best of both worlds. And here is UK- sitting there waiting on her just in case she doesn't meet someone else.

 

I fail to see how embarrassment over her actions would keep her from moving home. If she were truly repentant over what she's done, and wanting to rebuild this relationship, then she wouldn't give a damn. She'd be eager to do whatever UK wanted to make the marriage work.

 

It's all centering around this house for some reason. Well, I wouldn't give a damn about a house- if I was about to lose my marriage. I highly suspect that their budget is so crimped from this house that UK couldn't afford child support or anything if they divorced at this time, so her plan is to get that house unloaded. That sure would free up some disposable income wouldn't it? But, you know, don't mind me- that's just my opinion.

 

When a woman has children, it's not an option for her to have an episode to which she's so messed up she has to leave them but yet, she's not in the hospital, and she's not in counseling for these "issues" which so far haven't been named- except for the fact that she was having an affair.

 

I'm not talking about things like Becoming taking a mini vacation- everyone needs a break like that. This is a totally different thing. Yeah, lots of moms need or want to run away at times, but they don't. They stay and do the work. I can think of only a few things that make a mom do something like that. Extreme mental illness, drug addiction or the addiction of an affair. If things were too bad for me at home, with my spouse, then they would DAMN SURE be too bad for my children there as well.

 

I apologize UK if you think I'm being rude or ugly, I'm really not I'm just telling you how I see it. I've been in your wife shoes and I'm calling it like I see it.

If you don't want to listen to me or to Gunny or to CTA- then please talk to someone uninvolved and lay it all out for them and get their unbias opinion.

[Mz. Pixie]

she's trying to reconnect at her own pace with him as a friend to start off with. and don't the best relationships start off as being friends? She's contacting him, she's initiating contact! Isn't that what everyone stresses?? To let the abandoning spouse do the contacting? Cripes almighty, that's all I hear--NC, NC, NC, let them come to you. Yet when she is, everyone else is not ready to see the good side but to still condemn. I'm an eternal optimist, which is not always a good thing, but why can't people be happy for UK instead of still telling him to file for divorce to force something to happen sooner that she is not ready to do?

 

Respectfully Lor-

 

First of all, she's his WIFE, not someone he just met. There shouldn't have to be any friendship building in the first place.

 

Second of all, she's not apologizing or being repentant for her actions, ONE BIT.

 

Thirdly, I believe that he made a good attempt at a plan A. Then she ripped him one by saying she only wanted to be friends etc. Not wanting to string him along, yada yada. Still after that he's there, waiting to be kicked in the teeth again. In the beginning when it appeared she was coming along I was upbeat and saying he was doing a good job. When that started to not pay off for him though I changed my tune.

 

Sure, I'd love nothing more than to sit here and blow smoke up UK's ass and tell him what he wants to hear but that's not why I come here. I come here because I've been the unfaithful wife- I know how they think- how they act- the whole nine yards. It might not be what he wants to hear but I'm basing my comments on what I did, what I've read, and the countless other people I've given advice to on this topic.

 

I believe if I remember correctly you're the BS. I can see why you'd want to see her coming around and doing the right thing- because that would mean there might be more hope for your situation.

 

I would like to think that yeah, she's going to come around. But, she's not sorry for what she's done, she's not being real with him about why she wanted to leave in the first place, and she's cake eating. I cannot sit here and say she's making a turn around when it doesn't appear to me she is.

 

She's an alien right now, she's not his normal UK wife. So, I believe very little of what she says at this point and very little of her actions- until she starts asking for counseling or asking to move home.

As long as she's allowed to eat cake, she will. She's not going to stop of her own accord because it's paying off for her.

[Lor]

Sure, I'd love nothing more than to sit here and blow smoke up UK's ass and tell him what he wants to hear but that's not why I come here. I come here because I've been the unfaithful wife- I know how they think- how they act- the whole nine yards. It might not be what he wants to hear but I'm basing my comments on what I did, what I've read, and the countless other people I've given advice to on this topic.

 

I believe if I remember correctly you're the BS. I can see why you'd want to see her coming around and doing the right thing- because that would mean there might be more hope for your situation.

 

Respectfully right back at you, Ms. Pixie.

 

I don't believe I'm blowing smoke up UK's ass and telling him what he wants to hear. He's a smart man, that shows thru, and he's picking and choosing what advice to take and what not to. If you notice, I don't try to give him a whole lot of advice but to look at all sides of the situation, ask questions of her actions in a different light and to give him personal encouragement--not so much on what she's doing but how he is dealing with all this. Whether this works out for him in the end is up to her, but he's doing everything he should be doing--she's the one making all the moves. and sorry if that to me is encouraging.

 

I know you've been the cheating wife and that your first marriage was difficult and so was the subsequent divorce and no one wishes you had had to go thru that. But not everyone is the same and, although I value what you have written, I haven't always agreed with it due to the fact that not all EA/PA's are dealt with in the same regard. I had an EA and know what I went thru and what I was going thru at that time so I have my own personal experiences to come from on that. Was I wrong to have done it? Oh, you bet your *ss and I have regretted it ever since and I don't blame my H, my kids or anyone but myself because I caused it. And if I hadn't been fully ready to stay, I would have left. At the time I'd thought of leaving my H and my kids, whom are the most important thing to me. So yes, women do have "episodes" and yes some do leave their kids behind and then regret it later. If UK and his W work this out, she will regret this time she's missed with them for the rest of her life and will probably never truely forgive herself for it.

 

I'm not sure what a BS is. As far as me paralleling myself to UK's situation, yeah, I was doing that for a while and more than likely puting myself in their position. But CTA gave me probably the best words of wisdom I'd had from anyone on here:

 

Originally Posted by cta7978

Apparently that advice isn't working very well for you Lor.

 

and him saying that to me made me realize how blind I'd been and snapped me back into the reality of my situation. Do I have hope for my relationship anymore? Very little. I can't completely give up hope until its permanently over. I am living my life vicariously thru UK's? No I'm not. I don't live in a fairy world anymore, wishing for a happily ever after but I also refuse to cast everyone in the role of the wicked witch of the west just because they made a bad mistake.

 

And I'd rather speak my mind, same as you, and show a different side to the coin than to berate and run her down until all he sees is the negative to what she's done and not the progress she has made thus far to repair what she screwed up. UK is not going to let himself fall into the trap again--he's still hurting too from this. If you've read his threads thoroughly, he says she showing him she's not talking to OM, she's spending all her freetime with him and the kids, hinting at a future for them together. I don't think she's blowing smoke at him and I sincerely hope I'm not wrong but you know, he's going to make his own conclusions and they won't be based on anything I have said.

[Gunny376]

Well, G, I respectfully disagree somewhat, fully appreciative of your wisdom and experience.

 

Absolutely, women want a man who will lead them in the dance. But if after saying I needed space my man showed up at my door and tried to drag me off like some caveman clubbing him a woman, I'd kick him in the balls.

 

Dancing is one thing, forceful dragging another. (Unless it's the tango, perhaps. ).

 

 

But, I made and proven my point, (I almost couldn't sleep in anticipation to wake to see what was counter-posted).

 

What I said in my previous post was:

 

Extreme

Done with conscoius thought

Lead the dance.

 

I knew that the counter-Gunny/CTA/MsP group would counter-point. It certainly re-viced the discucssion which was my initial aim. After all this is a "think-tank" and collectively we're all here to provide answers to the questions, solutions to the problems, and our hard won experiences.

 

I'm curious to see what LadyJ has to say about all of this?

[Lor]

First of all, she's his WIFE, not someone he just met. There shouldn't have to be any friendship building in the first place.

 

Second of all, she's not apologizing or being repentant for her actions, ONE BIT.

 

Btw, by friendship building I meant to find and rekindle what it was about each other that they liked so much to want to build a relationship around. Over time, H/W lose that and to start over, you need to find it again.

 

No, she hasn't apologized but I have to argue that she hasn't been repentant. I believe that she is showing him in her way, the only way she knows to, that she is sorry. Something tells me she is not an easy, open-book type of woman who deals with things the same way most women do. She may never tell him outright she is sorry but that doesn't mean she can't show him she's sorry. Actions speak louder than words.

 

But this is just my opinion. Sorry if it doesn't jibe with the cut-throat majority.

[Gunny376]

But this is just my opinion. Sorry if it doesn't jibe with the cut-throat majority.

 

I don't think there is a majority conscesioius, I think you, Beliving, counter-balance CTA and I very well. I see MsP as more of a moderate, and LadyJ ~ well LadyJ. LOL! DD, and CC, weigh in as balanced perspectives, as do others.

[uksurfer]

But if after saying I needed space my man showed up at my door and tried to drag me off like some caveman clubbing him a woman, I'd kick him in the balls.

 

Yep, sorry Guns, but jeez... I'd be walking like John Wayne and talking like Mickey Mouse for months after pulling a stunt like that.

 

Sounds like UK does have the situation under control--he's happy with things as they are right now.

 

Aye, I feel like things are moving in the right direction. FOR NOW.

 

UK's W sounds like a very strong willed and stubborn woman who would never go for that kind of treatment.

 

You sound like you've met her.

 

My fingers are crossed for you, UK.

 

Thanks, Lor.

 

Yup, SOME of her needs. Who is handling the hugging, kissing and sex part?? Certainly not you at this point.

 

Not anyone else, either. Remember, the EA kid lived 'abroad', and he was the only 'affair' that she had - albeit a short-lived one. It certainly seems like it's died of death. I know for a fact she hasn't met up with him because I've been with her every single weekend since she even began this online chat ****e. And since she moved out, I've still spent every weekend with her, and at least every other evening during the week. She shows me the texts on her phone - none from him. She tells me who all the missed calls are from. It's like she's trying to prove to me that she's not in contact with him anymore - or anyone else, for that matter. Maybe that's true, maybe not, maybe I'm just a the eternal optimist here. I'm definitely a firm believer in benefit of the doubt, though. I see good in people. And I can't believe that once that 'affair' is finished, that she's immediately going to begin another one with someone else - especially after dropping a 7 year relationship just like that. That's just nuts. Emotionally-****ing-nuts.

 

When a woman has children, it's not an option for her to have an episode to which she's so messed up she has to leave them but yet, she's not in the hospital, and she's not in counseling for these "issues" which so far haven't been named- except for the fact that she was having an affair.

 

I'm not talking about things like Becoming taking a mini vacation- everyone needs a break like that. This is a totally different thing. Yeah, lots of moms need or want to run away at times, but they don't. They stay and do the work. I can think of only a few things that make a mom do something like that. Extreme mental illness, drug addiction or the addiction of an affair. If things were too bad for me at home, with my spouse, then they would DAMN SURE be too bad for my children there as well.

 

Yep, this part bothers me, too. This is something I've thought all along - if I was some kind of ****ed-up monster who made it unbearable at home, then she would have split AND taken the kids. No question.

 

But because she didn't do that, I really don't believe that I'm the problem. I really believe that it was the whole situation that she's run from (house, mortgage, debt, boisterous kids, me (possibly, to some extent)). What if this is just an OTT version of Becoming's little road trip, and the kids are the real problem for her?? Not something she's likely to admit to anyone, so she lands the blame on me instead, eh? Who the hell really knows at the end of the day anyway?

 

I apologize UK if you think I'm being rude or ugly, I'm really not I'm just telling you how I see it. I've been in your wife shoes and I'm calling it like I see it.

 

If you don't want to listen to me or to Gunny or to CTA- then please talk to someone uninvolved and lay it all out for them and get their unbias opinion.

 

Nah, I do appreciate it, I totally understand what you're saying, and I am listening to you - ALL. It's just that I'm now thinking that I'd like to see where things go my way first - and since this all happend, I feel like my position is improving, not worsening. The last thing I want to do is start making it difficult for her. She's quite volatile at the moment and I don't want the kids to be exposed to any of this unless it's totally necessary. It may get ****ty. I don't want that to happen. I'm thinking of our kids, here.

 

In the beginning when it appeared she was coming along I was upbeat and saying he was doing a good job. When that started to not pay off for him though I changed my tune.

 

How long do you wait before it starts to 'pay off', or 'not pay off'? A week? A month? Three months? Six? In my eyes, it is paying off. But like I said, it's only paying off FOR NOW. In another 6 weeks, I might have changed my mind completely. Who knows? Who can put a time limit on these things? The only real time limit will tick over when I get tired of waiting. Right now, I can hang on a little more because I'm pretty damned sure that there isn't anyone else involved right now.

 

I'm also not ready to go out and start hooking up with other girls, either - as I proved to myself a couple weeks ago. Sure, if in 6 months time I meet someone else, then I'll re-evaluate things then. But that's an if.

 

I would like to think that yeah, she's going to come around. But, she's not sorry for what she's done, she's not being real with him about why she wanted to leave in the first place, and she's cake eating. I cannot sit here and say she's making a turn around when it doesn't appear to me she is.

 

She has told me how sorry she is for hurting me. She's acknowledged that. She also can't actually remember saying a lot of the hurtful stuff she said to me a couple of months ago. She really cant. She's cried a lot - and yes, she's cried a lot in front of me. She's always been the kind of person for whom saying sorry is quite a tough thing to do - and I feel like turning this around, if it's possible, will take some time for her.

 

She's an alien right now, she's not his normal UK wife. So, I believe very little of what she says at this point and very little of her actions- until she starts asking for counseling or asking to move home.

 

Yep, sometimes it seems like she's all over the place, and a couple of weeks ago she did say that maybe she should go for counseling. It hasn't happened yet, but I'd like to see it.

 

Words, actions, whatever - who knows what to truly believe? All I'm saying is that she's making the effort to spend more and more time with me AND the kids. If I genuinely am the REAL issue for her here, then there's nothing stopping her from picking the kids up and spending time with them by herself. There's nothing stopping her from deleting my emails without replying. And there's nothing stopping her from doing the same with my texts, too.

 

Nothing.

[Gunny376]

 

No, she hasn't apologized but I have to argue that she hasn't been repentant. I believe that she is showing him in her way, the only way she knows to, that she is sorry. Something tells me she is not an easy, open-book type of woman who deals with things the same way most women do. She may never tell him outright she is sorry but that doesn't mean she can't show him she's sorry. Actions speak louder than words.

 

But this is just my opinion. Sorry if it doesn't jibe with the cut-throat majority.

 

This is an important concept.

 

Some people are visual: "I see your point!" "I can visualize what your saying!"

 

Some people are auditory: "I hear what your saying!" "I undersand what your saying"

 

Some people are touch-feeling: "I 'feel' ya!" "I starting to feel this!"

 

People will tell you how to relate to them if you just listen to what the say and how they say it.

 

Its entirely possible that she can't articulate her feelings and emotions into words that UK can understand. The disparity in gender speak.

[Becoming]

Gunny-- :laugh: You certainly have stirred some things up, man!

 

This armchair quarterbacking is dandy, isn't it?

 

In theory, I actually agree with you and MzP et al who say draw the line in the sand and make her decide. That's just who I am. I don't have the patience UK has. And I'd rather die on a grenade than leave my kids for more than a temporary mental health break.

 

But not everyone is like us. Alas and alack! And in reality, sometimes ya have to approach the mission with stealth. But always aware.

 

 

But not everyone is like us,

[Becoming]

Gunny-- :laugh: You certainly have stirred some things up, man!

 

This armchair quarterbacking is dandy, isn't it?

 

In theory, I actually agree with you and MzP et al who say draw the line in the sand and make her decide. That's just who I am. I don't have the patience UK has. And I'd rather die on a grenade than leave my kids for more than a temporary mental health break.

 

But not everyone is like us. Alas and alack! And in reality, sometimes ya have to approach the mission with stealth. But always aware.

[Lor]

I don't think there is a majority conscesioius, I think you, Beliving, counter-balance CTA and I very well. I see MsP as more of a moderate, and LadyJ ~ well LadyJ. LOL! DD, and CC, weigh in as balanced perspectives, as do others.

 

Thank you for that Gunny, I apologize to all for my cut-throat majority comment and Ms. P--sorry if I got my furr ruffled. I don't mean any offense to you whatsoever. But in my own defense, just because I am trying to look at this a different way is no reason to start what I consider jabbing me with a stick. Yes, I've made a lot of very bad choices when it comes to my Marriage but I believe I have given others good advice built from my own personal experiences and those said bad choices.

 

That said, if I'm giving bad advice or comments, then I need to be told now and I will quit this forum site. I can't always see the forest thru the trees and would rather stop that cause more harm to the people coming here looking for help. Maybe others are right and I can't see it due to wanting to see the good in people more often than the bad.

[Ladyjane14]

I'm curious to see what LadyJ has to say about all of this?

 

Ladyjane says.... she don't play.

 

You know, I try to help people look at every angle and get what they want out of their situation.... but in all honesty, I wouldn't tolerate my partner treating me like this. Neither would my husband if the roles were reversed.

 

We were little more than kids when we first got married. There've been LOTS of opportunities to mess with each other's heads. But neither one of us are tolerant of it. I truly believe... as Gunny said earlier, I'd have got one 'John Wayne' opportunity to straighten up and fly right, and that would've been it. I've never pulled a job like Mrs.UK has on her husband, because I always KNEW there wouldn't be a do-over.

 

My husband stepped out on me in an emotional relationship. Same Deal. No do-over. I saw an attorney within 2 hours of downloading the proof, and DEMANDED a divorce an hour and a half after I left the attorney's office. I don't play.... and my husband KNOWS it.

 

We must've each had an angel on our shoulder that day though, because we finally LISTENED to one another, and gave it another shot. It surprised the heck out of BOTH of us, I can tell you. He didn't expect to get another chance from me, I didn't expect to give him one.

 

And it's the certain knowledge that there was NO SECOND CHANCE that's kept me on the straight and narrow for more than two decades. I was the original wild-child when he and I met. Fidelity wasn't my norm. I had no model with which to identify.

 

It wasn't until after the crisis in our marriage that I began to "Plan A".... and it wasn't until way long after that I found Marriagebuilders. My "plan" is you could even call it one, was to give him the understanding and the TLC that I would've given to a patient recovering from an illness. And it worked, because in alot of ways.... my husband really was ill.

 

When I found Marriagebuilders, I could see how it would work. It had inadvertantly worked for me already. But the fly in the ointment, I think.... is that the "crisis" isn't introduced until Plan B. Unfortunately, most people stay in Plan A way too long, and their Plan B is shaky. It's not believable to the WS.

 

So, I have to wonder if maybe the "crisis" is a necessary component. The willingness to end the relationship rather than to tolerate mistreatment might need to be crystal clear to the WS. And I think maybe the WS needs to have that information BEFORE everybody becomes complacent in the status quo.

 

There are lots of threads in the Marriage section here at LS, where people aren't having their sexual needs fulfilled within the marriage. These folks have already tried damn near EVERYTHING to change their situation. But, with the exception of JamesM, whose wife was experiencing a medical condition.... we rarely see change in the relationship. That too, I believe is because there's been no crisis, no impetus for real and lasting change. Each person is too unwilling to cast the dice and accept defeat if they lose.

 

The crisis in my marriage is what brought about change in my POV regarding sexual fulfillment in the relationship among other things. That moment with 'the angel on my shoulder' opened my ears AND my mind to the possibility that I had been full of sh*t, embracing only my own viewpoint and rejecting my husband's.

 

At the end of the day.... I don't think there's any way around facing the crisis. I don't think there's any way to avoid rolling the dice.

 

UK can continue on as he has been for awhile longer, if he's content to do so. But eventually, the crisis will come. If he 'runs out of gas' before it gets here though.... he won't be able to use the crisis as a tool though. What's the point in rolling the dice, if you don't CARE about the outcome.

 

Every day the goes by in limbo, brings with it the possibility for harboring just a little more resentment and hurt. These things build up, like a greasy patina on your once bright and shiny love.

 

You don't have to throw her over your shoulder and carry her off, UK. But you can still carry a little "John Wayne" inside your heart. At some point, you're probably going to have to call her bluff.

[Gunny376]

Hindsight being 20/20 and all

 

I don't know if I'll ever get married again ~ its not a No.#1 priority nor need in my life. I've come to learn that good women (and good men for women) are like good jobs. There's not so easy to come by (lots of flakes, mentally ill, emotionally ill, alcholics, druggies, etc ~ on both sides) and what one's there are have generally already scopped up, and the one's that have them plan on keeping them, and you're going to have to fight them to get them away from them.

 

Part of the reason I'm off the market ~ and have been is because I'm expending the time, effort and energy ~ and money getting my life to where I want and need it to be, and its just easier to do that a lone.

 

All that to say, IF I ever get married again ~ I will most definately be completely open and honest about who and what I am as a person, man, etc. And, the boundries and the consequences for violating those bounderies clearly spelled out ~ as well expectations clearly spelled out! And, I will most definately call her out and bring it to her attention any and all violations of minor, and major offenses ~ and I will most definately go "John Wayne" on intollearable offenses. With no regrets, no second thoughts, and no looking back.

 

I'm not the same, young, innocent, naive, ignorant Gunny I once was upon a time. (Kind of an oxymoron ~ ain't it? LOL!)

 

Me, myself and I, I wouldn't ~ I coudln't do what UK's doing. Sixteen years ago I was in the same boat. And, I strung Plan "A" out way too long. And, the "Tha List" well everything it says do, I didn't ~ and everything it say don't do ~ I did. But, for the experience ~ here and today? If I were UK ~ I would most definately go "John Wayne" on her azz! As will UK ~ eventually. I mean come on ~ you got to know that even Mother Theresa got PO about someting? And, even she had her breaking point(s).

[Becoming]

She has told me how sorry she is for hurting me. She's acknowledged that. She also can't actually remember saying a lot of the hurtful stuff she said to me a couple of months ago. She really cant. She's cried a lot - and yes, she's cried a lot in front of me. She's always been the kind of person for whom saying sorry is quite a tough thing to do - and I feel like turning this around, if it's possible, will take some time for her.

 

OK this is critical information for me. This indicates contrition, which is crucial for healing to occur.

 

And here's where the dancing comes in. She really may not know what to do and you can help her, UK, by letting her know decisively where you stand--even if that's a willingness to dance with her awhile rather than draw a hard and fast line in the sand. Help her see you want to find a new way of being married with her and with both of you getting your needs met this time.

 

I think she doesn't have a clue who she is and what she wants/needs and that it scares her to be alone. No judgment--happens to most of us.

 

And honestly, I remember being very resentful of my children when they were younger. Now this is something that is hard to admit because of the social sanctioning of good mothering. But I felt like my life ended when I had children, like I'd become some kind of insect who mated, procreated, and then died having fulfilled my function. And I did not "go gentle into that good night. I raged, raged against the dying of the light," to quote the incomparable Dylan Thomas. It is just not OK to admit these feelings to anyone in our society. But countless people have them and don't know what to do with them, so they bury them in guilt. And then do stupid things to escape.

 

And yeah, you do have to risk it all by rolling the dice at the end of the day, whenever that day comes. But for now, keep talking and see if you can steer the dance/conversation toward some of the deeper issues that caused her to go off in the first place. Without knowing what went wrong, you can't fix it. Letting her know that you care about what drove her away in the first place so that you can take responsibility for your part of what went wrong (and it is always a tango tangle of responsibility for a marriage going sour) opens the door for her to reveal more.

 

Start thinking about your conditions for her coming back into the marriage, UK, because I see her moving back that way. I think counseling would be one of the them. I didn't insist on that when my H's EA caused our temporary split, which went down pretty much as LJ's. We're back better than ever, but had he gone to therapy then, the healing would have gone faster and better for all.

 

You're doing fabulous, UK. She's very confused about who she is but if you go in rescuing her John Wayne/Rhett Butler style, she'll never find out or have to take responsibility for her actions. And then there's that whole Mickey Mouse singing thing. . . :lmao:

[Lor]

You sound like you've met her.

 

Haven't had the pleasure but she probably wouldn't like me; we're too much alike. Stubborn? I once held onto a library book in school from the beginning of the year until the last day all because the librarian kicked me out for not returning it and wouldn't let me go to my locker to get it.

 

 

Words, actions, whatever - who knows what to truly believe? All I'm saying is that she's making the effort to spend more and more time with me AND the kids. If I genuinely am the REAL issue for her here, then there's nothing stopping her from picking the kids up and spending time with them by herself. There's nothing stopping her from deleting my emails without replying. And there's nothing stopping her from doing the same with my texts, too.

 

Nothing.

 

The issue is not you so much as her. What you said makes perfect sense. If you've got the time and the patience, then I suggest to continue the way you are. One day you might wake up to realize that this has gone on long enough, you have nothing left to give and then resort to plan B. But until then I have to give you credit for loving your wife enough--this is definitely "For Better Or For Worse".

[Mz. Pixie]

In theory, I actually agree with you and MzP et al who say draw the line in the sand and make her decide. That's just who I am. I don't have the patience UK has. And I'd rather die on a grenade than leave my kids for more than a temporary mental health break.

 

But not everyone is like us. Alas and alack! And in reality, sometimes ya have to approach the mission with stealth. But always aware.

 

I fully agree!!!

 

Lor, I wasn't offended. I just personally prefer a tough love approach, especially when someone is beating around the bush and riding the fence, as in Ms. Uk's sitch.

 

She sounds awfully immature actually- especially if growing up and showing responsibility in the form of being a parent, and a wife and a homeowner are what's causing her to f*ck up.

 

I have a really hard time feeling sorry for people who don't have any reason to feel sorry for themselves. That's because I've been through so much myself- and I'm not talking about my divorce at all. To me, you don't have kids unless you're going to take care of them- and it's not an option to run off and leave them either.

 

But I'm pretty black and white. I can't stand alot of wavering- make a decision- either way is my motto.

 

I had to at Gunny saying that I'm a moderate here. Boy, that's the first time I've heard that.

 

My main point is she's gonna hang this way until she's forced to make a decision. As far as them being friends- and reclaiming their relationship I still say that she doesn't need to live outside of the house to do that. The odds of that rebuilding taking place when they don't live together- according to Marriagebuilders is very slim.

 

UK-I think you're great. I think you're trying. I just hate to see you read too much into her actions. I think her words state alot of repentance, but to me her actions don't. I go more by actions than words because words are cheap. When I met my H- I was scared as hell to get involved with anyone- I didn't want to give my heart away. But, I was scared as hell NOT to give my heart to him, because he was so fabulous I didn't want to lose him. I knew he wouldn't tolerate PART of me, he wanted ALL of me. And I was afraid he'd get away. Obviously Ms. UK isn't really thinking that you'll get away right now, and that's a real shame because you've busted your balls to try to get her back.

 

Only you can say how long you'll go on with this. That's entirely up to you. When you get your fill of suffering then you'll put your foot down. I hope that you keep us updated either way.

[uksurfer]

I mentioned John Wayne because that's the way I'd be walking once she'd booted me in the cojones.

 

Anyhoo, you gotta know your enemy - and in this case going in tough ain't gonna work. Believe me.

 

Y'know, I can totally understand everyone's view on this, and I can't say enough how much I appreciate your input. I've learned a lot. Doesn't mean I'm gonna follow it all, though.

 

I'd just like to see where this is all flowing to, to be honest. I'm actually intrigued, just as much as I really do want her back. Lor is a lot closer than everyone else when it comes to spotting my wife's personality when she says "not an easy, open-book type of woman who deals with things the same way most women do. She may never tell him outright she is sorry but that doesn't mean she can't show him she's sorry. Actions speak louder than words."

 

I know her. That's just who she is. To the letter.

 

Putting the pressure on is just gonna make her run faster.

 

But it's still all just so offbeat right now, too. Take today, for example. I met her for lunch in town near her work and afterwards, she said "why don't you come in and meet everyone". Arrgh. So I went in and she introduced me to the people she works with (she started the job a few weeks before all this happened) and they all knew loads about me already. Huh?

 

But on the way up to her office, we were in the elevator, stood pretty close together and, ****, I leaned in for a kiss - just like I *always* have done whenever we've been in an elevator. Whoops. Dunno what came over me. Memory lapse or something. She stopped me, though, just before we reached our floor. Didn't get mad or annoyed or anything like that. Then after I'd left her office, she texted me to apologise for seeming jumpy - her boss was around today and she'd taken a longer lunch than normal. Fair enough.

 

But who splits up with their husband, then asks him to come into work and meet everyone? Huh?

 

Anyhoo, Lor, don't stop posting. My glass is half full, too, not half empty, and the ability to see good in people is something I always try to do, too. It's a virtue, not a vice.

 

And, like Becoming said: "in reality, sometimes ya have to approach the mission with stealth. But always aware."

 

Right now. I'm stealthy. And I'm very, very ****ing aware.

 

Smoke me a kipper. I'll be back for breakfast.

 

[Gunny376]

OK this is critical information for me. This indicates contrition, which is crucial for healing to occur.

 

And here's where the dancing comes in. She really may not know what to do and you can help her, UK, by letting her know decisively where you stand--even if that's a willingness to dance with her awhile rather than draw a hard and fast line in the sand. Help her see you want to find a new way of being married with her and with both of you getting your needs met this time.

 

I think she doesn't have a clue who she is and what she wants/needs and that it scares her to be alone. No judgment--happens to most of us.

 

And honestly, I remember being very resentful of my children when they were younger. Now this is something that is hard to admit because of the social sanctioning of good mothering. But I felt like my life ended when I had children, like I'd become some kind of insect who mated, procreated, and then died having fulfilled my function. And I did not "go gentle into that good night. I raged, raged against the dying of the light," to quote the incomparable Dylan Thomas. It is just not OK to admit these feelings to anyone in our society. But countless people have them and don't know what to do with them, so they bury them in guilt. And then do stupid things to escape.

 

And yeah, you do have to risk it all by rolling the dice at the end of the day, whenever that day comes. But for now, keep talking and see if you can steer the dance/conversation toward some of the deeper issues that caused her to go off in the first place. Without knowing what went wrong, you can't fix it. Letting her know that you care about what drove her away in the first place so that you can take responsibility for your part of what went wrong (and it is always a tango tangle of responsibility for a marriage going sour) opens the door for her to reveal more.

 

Start thinking about your conditions for her coming back into the marriage, UK, because I see her moving back that way. I think counseling would be one of the them. I didn't insist on that when my H's EA caused our temporary split, which went down pretty much as LJ's. We're back better than ever, but had he gone to therapy then, the healing would have gone faster and better for all.

 

You're doing fabulous, UK. She's very confused about who she is but if you go in rescuing her John Wayne/Rhett Butler style, she'll never find out or have to take responsibility for her actions. And then there's that whole Mickey Mouse singing thing. . . :lmao:

 

At this point ~ I actually advocate continuing the dance ~ but lead damnit ~ lead!

 

That and continuing do what works.

 

I would like to remind you UK ~ that when this whole thing started out she was dead set against getting any kind of professional help ~ and now she's considering it? Whooohoooo! That's what you call progess my friend!

 

"Rhett Butler ~ John Wayne" is Plan B stuff. Just keep it in its hoster for now.

[Gunny376]

Y'know, I can totally understand everyone's view on this, and I can't say enough how much I appreciate your input. I've learned a lot. Doesn't mean I'm gonna follow it all, though.

 

Take what you can use and leave the rest!

 

The best personal advice I've ever gave anyone, was to not necessarly follow any advice I give you!

[Billy Bob]

UK can continue on as he has been for awhile longer, if he's content to do so. But eventually, the crisis will come. If he 'runs out of gas' before it gets here though.... he won't be able to use the crisis as a tool though. What's the point in rolling the dice, if you don't CARE about the outcome.

 

Exactly how I feel, I think UK should push it to a head now and get her to come off the fence one way or another. These games just keep doing damage to the relationship.. every day that goes by without resolution just chips a little bit more away from the foundation of the relationship.

 

UK may not realize it now, but the longer this is prolonged, the harder it will be to undue the damage.

 

If she really is still wishy washy about UK after months of this game and doesn't yet know if she wants to be a wife and mother..times up... Go NC! Really UK if she isn't sleeping with you at all, thats a dead giveaway she just wants to be friends. You can read into her actions as much as you want, but from an outsider looking in its pretty obvious that she wants a strong friendship relationship with you only at this point.

 

I think your deluding yourself here UK. Tell her (or show her) your really horny for her next time and see what her reaction is.

[uksurfer]

Dude, it's smorgasbord. (I'm a writer, I can't help this *****.)

 

Becoming - I missed your last post, but yeah ALL that works for me. I do realise - and I am fully aware - that there may eventually come a point where I do have to say enough is enough, but hey, that's my call.

 

Maybe my tolerance threshold is higher? Maybe I'm just naive? Maybe I'm just still too much in ****ing love with her and our family?

 

Either way, time is something I can - and fully intend to - give to this situation.

 

And Pix - of course I'll keep you entertaine.... ummm, I mean updated.

 

(Seriously, I need to turn this into a script!!)

[Becoming]

(Seriously, I need to turn this into a script!!)

 

 

You know, it might make a good script. Tonight on the LoveShack . . .

 

We could follow everyone's life, including us armchair quarterbacks and watch and see how the advice does and does not end up for everyone.

 

I'd like Meryl Streep to play me. Or the actress who plays Lynette on Desperate Housewives.

 

Now speaking of writing . . . I gotta go do some! Toodles!

[Gunny376]

Dude, it's smorgasbord. (I'm a writer, I can't help this *****.)quote]

 

One of those internet grammar Nazi's! LOL!

 

Seriously, when it comes to spelling ~ I've got some kind of mental block. My pocket Webster's Spelling dictionary is thumb worn, the front cover ~ long gone!

[Mz. Pixie]

And Pix - of course I'll keep you entertaine.... ummm, I mean updated.

 

(Seriously, I need to turn this into a script!!)

 

 

Actually it doesn't keep me entertained. If I were looking for laughs I wouldn't be here. This is sort of my way of trying to bring some good from what I've gone through.

 

Your wife will probably look back on this one day and think to herself "What the hell was I thinking?"