Am I a tool?

[SourBun]

Help.

 

I've been in a long distance relationship for nearly 4 years. Just before we met, my girlfriend met this attractive-intelligent-successful guy during a business trip to Hawaii. For whatever reason things did not work out, yet they remained good friends.

 

A year ago, she returned home (she's originally from overseas) and arranged to meet up with this "friend" to be his tour guide. Fine. However, she had also planned for the two of them to spend a couple days (in separate rooms) at a romantic oceanside resort. Apparently, he loves the ocean. What kills me is that she failed to tell me anything about this trip until right before he was set to arrive (due to other circumstances, that portion of the trip was eventually cancelled). She says she held out telling me because she was afraid I'd over-react (I probably would have - okay, I did - but is that any reason to keep this from me?)

 

Since then, our relationship developed and we became engaged this June. I love her dearly and cannot imagine being without her. I am now moving cross-country and starting a new career to be near her.

 

However, just this week she flew overseas on business and guess what? Her "friend" just happens to be in the neighborhood and offered to meet up with her for two days! She call's me each day to keep in touch and the following emerges: 1) they've gone out clubbing each night into the wee hours and have shared a hotel room out of convenience (she on the bed, he on the floor..please stop laughing) and 2) for the past four years, she had never cared to mention our relationship to him! WTF! She explained that conversation always tends to focus on him. BUT FOR FOUR YEARS!!! WTFx10!!!

 

Okay, here's where I need your help - particularly if you're a woman. I admit that I can be prone to jealousy, and the time we spend apart leaves much to my (very colorful) imagination. However, at this stage in our relationship, can her behaviour be justified? Everytime we discuss "him", I'm always reassured that she loves me. And as sincerely as possible, I tell her that I trust her and that my insecurities should not influence her friendships. Yet why would she continue to do these things knowing how horrible it makes me feel? Am I the biggest tool ever, or what?

 

Help.

[Spectre]

No, your gf seems to be the tool. Why would you want to marry a person like this? She obviously has no regard for your feelings, just let her go

[john2776]

Oh Sourbun, I feel for you dude. Your story has so many parallels to my relationship. And because its not me I'm reading about I can hardly stop from bursting out laughing at some of things your wrote!!

 

There are obviously some red flags here which is why you are asking your questions. Spectre is totally hardline in all his posts and I usually agree with him, but in this case I'm not convinced. For a start you and your GF love each other or you would not be engaged to marry. So to give advice to let her go isn't that helpful. What you want to really understand is wtf is going on.

 

Part of the problem is that so much time has been spent in a long distance relationship. She is still used to a lot of freedom, and you havn't spent enough time around her to really understand how she behaves, and because of this the normal borders that are developed early in a relationship have never been set between you. Your GF is out of line at the moment - out of line in regards to what you feel is acceptable. She either thinks it is ok (which you can't understand), or she is a cheater (which you don't want to believe but suspect).

 

Here is what will probably happen: You feel the need to set her straight on a few things, and she will react like she is doing nothing wrong, and why are you becoming so controlling all of a sudden. But you can't avoid it, you have to talk to her about the way it makes you feel and that is just not on. I'm a little luckier than you because I picked up a lot of my GF's strange behaviour earlier and managed to explain what was acceptable or not and have her agree - but if I hadn't of, Im pretty certain she would have ended up in some guys place in another city also. Did something actually happen with your GF and the guy, would something have happened with my GF and her guy? I have no idea. We would like to think not.

 

Hopefully your wedding date is not quickly approaching, because the two of you have a lot of things to work out. That she didn't tell this guy about you for 4 years is amazing and VERY worrying. Are you telling us that he still didn't know you are engaged? I'd be interested to know how she explains this given that she must be in contact with him. How do you not mention to a friend that you are engaged??

[john2776]

You have obviously had discussions about this friend before. She therefore must be aware that you are not comfortable with the friendship. I would imagine that you would be uncomfortable to some degree if she was just meeting up with the guy for a cup of coffee while she is in another country. So for sure she MUST know that for her to share a hotel room with him would just drive you nuts. So even if she thinks its ok, she is consciously doing something that is damaging to your relationship. Does she not respect you? How is everything else in the relationship? How did she react when you proposed? What are the positives that she is bringing to the relationship at the moment? How old are you both? What is her relationship history like?

[Outcast]

It seems to me that if you have been exclusively LD for all this time, you should not be marrying. You cannot know someone well enough to marry her without spending time in person. Lots of time.

 

And, frankly, the fact that she's in a relationship should never 'just slip her mind' - and absolutely not for four years!!! When a woman loves a man, he's rarely far from her thoughts. So for her to not get around to telling this guy about you all this time says to me that you're incidental in her life rather than an essential part of it.

[Spectre]

 

There are obviously some red flags here which is why you are asking your questions. Spectre is totally hardline in all his posts and I usually agree with him, but in this case I'm not convinced. ?

 

 

Why not? This chick thinks its ok to go out clubbing late into the night with her EX bf. She thinks its ok to share a hotel room with him as well. She also plans a trip with her EX bf, and doesnt tell her current bf until the dude arrives? Plus she plans it at a romantic resort? She also knows her bf doesnt like this, yet continues to do it?

 

I mean, what planet is this ok on? Did she think this would not effect her bf?

 

I'm sorry, but this chick just doesn't love the guy she's with, the way shes acting is just completely unacceptable.

 

 

To the OP- Dude, if you stay with this chick, you might as well chop off your nuts, put them in a jar, and hand them to her. You're better than this, get with a girl who doesnt feel the need to plan trips with her ex, go clubbing with her ex, stay in the same hotel room with her ex, and not even care to mention to him she has a bf for four years.

 

Actions speak louder than words, she can say she loves you all she wants, but she sure as heck isn't acting like it.

[john2776]

Spectre I do agree with your points - all of them; except we are only hearing the OP's side of things, his thoughts, his views of how things have happened. What I've noticed is that when the OP is the person being questioned by their SO on a topic like this that other people tend to sympathise with the OP and suggest that the SO is being controlling and that that aren't really doing that much wrong.

 

I'd like to know how the GF reacts when he says to her "WTF are you doing sharing a room with this guy?" Does she get defensive, does she just laugh and tell him he is worrying about nothing, or does she listen and then say "Sh#t, I've messed up havn't I? I will check out of this room and get my own one for tonight. Sorry." What is the tone of the disagreement in otherwords - is she going to make an effort to fix these problems or does she expect him to accept the behaviour. If she expects him to accept it, then like you say he will be handing her his balls and he will never get them back. Also as you say - actions speak louder than words.

[SourBun]

To be fair, anyone reading my post would be biased to my point of view. Life is so much more complicated than can be recounted here. Trust me when I say she is a genuine sweetheart and by no means a typical cheater. We've been "creatively abstinent" (per her beliefs) the past four years (has it been that long?!?), so it's hard to imagine her engaging in any physical relationships behind my back.

 

She has a diverse collection of friends, many of them guys. I'm ok with that. What bothers me is that she's never really convinced me why things didn't initially work out between them. She tells me things like: "you're more sensitive, caring, grounded, less self-centered.." But my gut keeps telling me that the only reason they didn't hook up is because he wasn't interested in a long-distance relationship. We've had a couple of intense conversations on the matter, and on each occasion, she's offered to stop meeting up with him. I keep insisting that doing so would be wrong; proof that our relationship lacks mutual trust. So I've kinda brought this upon myself.

 

The fact that she has failed to mention that I existed the past four years is another matter entirely. Considering how often they apparently email/text/phone - and the fact that they are indeed friends - I cannot imagine why she wouldn't have alluded to my existence. But to her defense, she does tend to keep her private life very private (some of her distant girlfriends back home did not know she was in a serious relationship).

 

To answer some of your other questions:

- Yes, he now knows we're engaged.

- Everything else in the relationship is fine (well, aside from different religious views that we've dealt with)

- She was the one that really pressed for the engagement (BTW, I'm equally looking forward to settling down)

- She's 33, I'm 31

- She's had one serious relationship go really bad in the past

 

I guess it boils down to this: Even though I keep insisting that they remain friends, is it right for her to keep putting herself in these situations, knowing how jealous it makes me? Are women more capable of keeping relationships genuinely platonic?

 

Anyway,I feel better having spelled everything out here. Thanks for listening!

[SourBun]

Why not? This chick thinks its ok to go out clubbing late into the night with her EX bf. She thinks its ok to share a hotel room with him as well. She also plans a trip with her EX bf, and doesnt tell her current bf until the dude arrives? Plus she plans it at a romantic resort? She also knows her bf doesnt like this, yet continues to do it?

 

For clarification, they were never BF/GF

[john2776]

We've been "creatively abstinent" (per her beliefs) the past four years (has it been that long?!?), so it's hard to imagine her engaging in any physical relationships behind my back.

You obviously love her very much because you seem quite blind to a few things here mate. Don't take that personally - I'm the same with my fiance. I take it you have not had sex in 4 years with her due to her religious beliefs? She is 33 years old - no way is she still a virgin! WTF are you doing? My relationship started out with no sex due to religious beliefs which were presented to me as "I don't believe in sex before marriage". Initially I was fine with it until I discovered she had already had sex in the past. At that point I called bull**** and the sex become the norm for us. What's your GF's story? Next - you say you have been creative, so what makes you think she could not be creative behind your back? I don't follow your logic on that.

 

she's offered to stop meeting up with him. I keep insisting that doing so would be wrong; proof that our relationship lacks mutual trust. So I've kinda brought this upon myself.

She has got you thinking that this is your fault! You should not have to tell her the bleading obvious - yes she can be friends with him, but no she should not be sharing a hotel with him.

 

I cannot imagine why she wouldn't have alluded to my existence. But to her defense, she does tend to keep her private life very private (some of her distant girlfriends back home did not know she was in a serious relationship).

Thats not a defence! Thats more circumstancial evidence that somewhere she isn't totally being honest with you or possibly herself. How does a normal person not tell their friends in 4 years that they have a BF? The answer is it does not happen. Something is wrong here. Has she been able to explain this to you?

 

- She's 33, I'm 31

If she hasn't figured out appropriate behaviour in a relationship by now I seriously doubt she ever will. In her defense her religious views could be adding to the problems - strange but true. For example my GF has strong views and always see's the best in people always forgives peoples mistakes and tells me Im too judgemental. When she says this Im trapped, because I share the same religious views, and from that angle its hard to argue, but my instinct still tells me something is wrong at times. You need to take a deep breath and realise that what you see now, this is who she is, this is the person that you are going to marry. Love her with these faults, because its not going to change, or....

 

I guess it boils down to this: Even though I keep insisting that they remain friends, is it right for her to keep putting herself in these situations, knowing how jealous it makes me? Are women more capable of keeping relationships genuinely platonic?

No its not right of her to do this. And NO women are NOT more capable of keeping things platonic!

 

Look, I'd love to say you have nothing to worry about, but if I said that I would just be bull****ing you.

[Bryanp]

My friend there are so many red flags it is numerous to mention. Let me ask you this: If the roles were reversed do you honestly think your girlfriend would accept such disrespect and humiliation from you? I hate to tell you this but you definately sound like the doorprize. She makes sure she does not tell this guy about your relationship and will do anything to spend time with him behind your back.

 

How sweet that they are sharing a room to save expenses...Oh please! You said this guy was extremely successful but needs to share a room with your girlfriend to save a few bucks? She is engaged to you and she puts herself in this position? If the roles were reversed and you told this to your girlfriend do you think she would be accepting this? If she does this to you while you are engaged one can only wonder what she will do later. You need to open your eyes. You judge a person by their actions and not by their words and her actions are speaking volumes.

[brightskies]

Hi Sourbun,

 

You are NOT a tool.

 

Female perspective here. Sorry to say, I have to agree with the guys who have posted. She's been putting herself in compromising situations with this other guy despite the fact you're engaged. Any woman in love is going to be talking about her significant other to her friends even if they're male. The fact that she'd been hiding you from him for so long says that she probably harbored if not feelings, then definitely an attraction for this guy. They're probably still there.

 

She's basically been acting like she's totally single, and how convenient that you're across the country for no one to see. And that "sharing the room" story? No way should you sit for that. No way in hell. That's so not cool it's not even funny. Part of the problem is she's used to being on her own, but at her age her ignorance of acceptable relationship behavior borders on downright inconsiderate.

 

If she were in your shoes I'm willing to bet my left arm that she'd totally freak out and kick your ass out the door. She's toeing the line of cake-eater. You're going to be so screwed if you marry her without laying down the ground rules and clearing the air. You really ought to reconsider your position as it stands. In fact, all this suspicious behavior on her part would make me question the validity of the engagement. Just my 2 cents.

[megnog]

hey, another females perspective -

 

in my relationship, that would NEVER be allowed. if it were my bf and his almost could be EX or if it were me and my almost could be EX.. we would have had so many problems, we wouldn't even be together at this point.

look, this girl could be realllllyyy sweet and have all the right words to make you feel at ease but it really REALLY sounds like something is up. yeah you could be the better guy emotionally and mentally but whos to say shes not physically cheating on you?

i'm not going to say flat out that she is infact cheating on you.. but you really need to put an end to this if you want to continue dating her. tell her you love her and she means the world to you but you can't continue seeing her if she keeps prancing around with another guy. its unacceptable.

 

anyway

just a girls outlook.

and especially if it makes you jealous and torn inside.. i would stop. i really would.

[littlekitty]

There is - IMHO - only one reason you would 'forget' to mention a 4 year, serious relationship to a male friend. And that, my dear, is because you don't want him to know you are not available.

 

Huge red flag blowing in the wind here....!

 

I'm sorry, but that is not an acceptable way to behave in a relationship, especially not one headed for marriage.

[ash8752]

Ok...I am not going to be quite as 'harsh' although everyone has very valid points. The fact that she is being honest with you is great. She isnt hiding the fact that this guy exists from you which is really big because it seems like she easily could.

 

I mean, this stuff would never fly in my relationship either but he is supposedly just a friend.

 

BUT, why does he not know about you? That is a huge nono. She should have told him all about you by now if they are truly friends. Also, they shouldnt be spending over nights together.

 

Good luck with her...i'm not saying if you should end it or not, but it is definately something you should talk about. Maybe she shouldnt even see him anymore. How would she feel if the rolls were reversed?

[Cecelius]

"Separate bedrooms" (at a "resort")

 

You may be a tool, have had toolness put on you, but you can so much end that status anytime you want.

[SourBun]

First of all, thanks for all your comments. Since this matter arose, I've been harsh on myself for being unable to rise above my jealousy. As many of you know, when you fall for someone so completely, it is easy to rationalize their behaviour, often willingly at your own expense. As I've never been so emotionally invested in a relationship before, your perspectives are truly valued.

 

Regarding the roles being switched, yes, this is something that I've brought up before, and no, it would definitely not be ok for me to do the same thing. Apparently, as I do not have a female friend as close as "Steve", the point is moot. Personally, I would never feel comfortable putting myself in that situation, which is part of the reason it hurts so much that she cannot appreciate my point of view.

 

Also, I have no issue with her being attracted to another guy. Or even close friends with him. We're all only human. All I ask is that at the end of the day - that although I'm far from perfect - my qualities entitle me to a healthy relationship built upon a foundation of mutual respect and trust. Furthermore, if unwilling or unable to commit fully to our relationship, I'd hope that she'd at least have the decency and courage to step forth and say so.

[john2776]

Sourbun, what is the current status? Is she still with the guy now? When do you see her next? You sound like a decent guy and expect her to be a decent girl. I think you are probably a bit shocked by the responses you have been getting. I guess you were hoping that you were doing something wrong - because then you would have felt more able to fix it. If I was in your shoes right now I would be freaking out - its very hard to deal with tough situations like this when your girl is so far away.

 

Hopefully through all the feedback you understand that you need to do something about this. Talk to her asap and sort it out. You are completely within your rights to be hardline on pointing out what you expect. Don't be afraid that she will not like it and leave you or anything. If she loves you, she will listen and eventually accept it. But you have to do it now or your long term relationship with this girl will actually get worse in the long run. And hold back on that marriage for now.

[john2776]

Furthermore, if unwilling or unable to commit fully to our relationship, I'd hope that she'd at least have the decency and courage to step forth and say so.

In reality a lot of people don't work this way. Besides, she may be fully committed to the relationship in her mind. She may love the relationship partly because of all this freedom she has. She might really struggle to understand why you are pulling the reins in more now. Unfortunately relationships and people are complicated. You mentioned before that jealousy is something to try and keep control of - which is good - but sometimes like in your case there are good reasons for the jealousy and you need to take action when you hear your own internal alarm bells going off.

[SourBun]

She's still overseas visiting family; he left yesterday. During our last conversation she mentioned how unfortunate it is that as her "best friend", this guy cannot be her bridesmaid. I didn't know how to respond to that. Perhaps I hung up the phone. I can't recall. Whatever I did or said, she knows I'm upset. At least before knowing they were "best friends", I could dream up explanations why he was never told about me.

 

I don't know when I'll see her again. Between selling the house, tying up loose ends at my current job, and moving out west, I don't have alot of free time to travel. We'll still be living apart, although now only a short 2-hour drive away. The wedding is penciled in for May, although this may change. Completely.

 

Yeah, I'm somewhat in shock. Especially hearing the responses from women. I was hoping that at least someone here would have come forward with a credible explanation.

 

We definitely have alot to discuss. And if she continues to blame this on my insecurities, then it's going to be a real short conversation. I still truly believe that she loves me and only withholds details of this relationship to spare my feelings. Inconsiderate? Yes. But I don't think that's reason enough to go separate ways.

 

All things considered, I love her regardless. So in that sense, I am a tool.

[brightskies]

If he were just her "best friend" as she claims, I swear to you that she would be telling him all about you. It's natural to confide in a best friend. There's more going on there. And it's probably not platonic. It's troubling that you, her very fiance, had no clue about how close she is to him until recently. And this was going on for 4 years! And all those other weird things that were going on. As you said yourself, "WTF 10x!!!!"

 

Like Kitty said: she didn't want to let "Steve" know that she was taken. Bingo 1,000,000,000,000 times.

 

She may care about you, but not enough to give you and your relationship due respect. As you said, it's human to be attracted to others on a casual, fleeting level. But when in an exclusive relationship your partner should come first. Most likely her attraction to him is far more than casual. It sounds like he's one "that got away."

 

Hate to say it but you were probably the "safe bet." It's great that you're trying to keep an open mind and are trying to be understanding. But this forgiving, generous quality in you, if taken too far, could lead to your heartbreak. For your sanity and happiness please don't be foolish. Keep your eyes open. Pay more attention to what she does vs. to what she says. Think VERY carefully before you marry this girl, if you decide to do so.

[john2776]

You think the world of your GF don't you? You feel like the luckiest man to have her? You treat her really well don't you? You cannot imagine your world without her in it can you? As you are engaged to be married and all you have in circumstancial evidence you think it is totally crazy to walk away? I can understand your situation.

 

However, here are some things that could in all seriousness happen:

While he will not be the bridesmaid he will be coming to the wedding

Because he is her best friend, and you would let her girlfriends stay over in your house, on what basis are you going to tell her that her best friend cannot stay over in your house for a week or so while he is on vacation visiting her?

More business trips from her where she stays with him (telling you or possibly not). And if she hides it from you, and you catch her, she will say she didn't tell you because she didn't want to upset you and make you all jealous.

 

Keep us informed of how this progresses.

[Cecelius]

I think she thinks this situation is okay because she's been able to get away with it. Now she's blaming this on your insecurities? More important, she has clearly decided that she is going to have her cake and eat it too.

 

I hate to say it, but I think you should walk away from this situation. If you attempt to discuss it with her, you may get "your way", but in the long term she will only resent you for making her make him go away, or she will feel that she has done you some great favor, and that you owe her somehow.

 

Talking to someone about them stoping something that you have let them get away with for a long time -- that just won't go very well. She loves you, I do not doubt, but she loves you in your place and assumes that that love fits in with what she wants (him as a buddy in a VERY, VERY ODD way).

 

If I were you, and considering that really, her distance keeps her from being much of a relationship to you anyway, I would break off the relationship.

[Kathleen2260]

Another female perspective- I have a bf and also have a very close guy friend who I dated for five months when I was 17. (I"m in my late twenties now). He and I have been friends ever since I ended it with him. We never had sex. My guy friend is one of my best friends I tell him everything (unless my bf asks me not to then I respect that) When we travel, sometimes without my bf we do share a hotel room to save money. (But we don't go to romantic ocean side resorts) This guy is like a brother to me. I am not in the least sexually attracted to him, nor is he a threat to my bfs although my ex didnt' like him very well. So I can see how your fiance could be only friends with this guy and I can believe there is nothing inappropriate going on. I honestly don't think she is cheating on you.

 

However I would NEVER keep the fact that I had a bf from him. THat is the only red flag that really really worries me. I mean what reason did your fiance give you other than he always talks about himself? I'm sure he does not talk about himself 24/7 so she had plently of time to throw the fact that she had a boyfriend into their conversation. I also think that she is totally disrespecting you and your feelings. In my eyes you are practically a saint for even putting up with all of this and still wanting to marry her! I think that if you are to get married you need to let her choose her friendship with him or her relationship with you. I know that is harsh but she has done some innappropriate things like lying to you, not telling you her plans to meet with him, and not telling him of your existence. If he truly is her best friend (you SHOULD have that title as well) then she woudl have told him all about you especially after you got engaged because as a female the only reason i can think of as to why one wouldnt' tell a "Friend" of the opposite sex about their mate is because they want to keep the "Friend" around as a back up. I know, not the response you wanted to hear. Good luck.

[nicki]

I've been in a long distance relationship. They suck. I would never do it again, unless the relationship had developed first, then became serious to the point of engagement, and THEN became long distance.

 

You just don't know each other in the ways that are important. So much of a relationship is nonverbal.

 

Just because you marry her doesn't mean she will change her behavior. She won't. She will continue to do what she is doing now.

 

Talk to her if you really want to. Tell her the boundaries you want. See if she responds with love and a true desire to make things better....From where I sit, she sounds immature and selfish...NO girl thinks it's okay to spend the night with another guy when you have a boyfriend.

 

It's a question of not only refraining from inappropriate behavior, but also from the mere appearance of it.

 

I would run, too. Marriage is the meeting of the minds, hearts and bodies of two equals...She is NOT your equal. Do you really think she could change enough to be at your level?

 

At the very least, stop talking marriage until you can live in the same city for a year.

 

Good luck. You sound very thoughtful and full of good character. A great catch for any woman.