cutegirl Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 My bf claims that if I push or hit him first then if he hits me back repeatedly it's justified. Well, not really justified, but what he means is that he claims during an argument if he tells me NOT to touch him, and I do anyways, that means that I'm invading his space and he has right to protect himself. He says that if you tell someone not to touch you it basically means NO. Like if a woman tells a man not to touch her he shouldn't, cause if he touches too much it could lead to rape or sexual harassment, and that it's the same way when a man says no. So he basically says that during fights when he tells me not to touch him I shouldn't but sometimes I do anyways just to get him to listen to me because it's in the heat of the moment, and he claimed that I hit him first in the shoulder, so he responded back by slapping me a few times in the face. So he's basically saying that because I touched him first he gets to hit me back. He says that just because "I'm a girl" doesn't mean that it doesn't hurt him if I hit him first, and that it's always turned around to make the guy look back just because the girl is weaker. I don't think I deserve "special treatment" or that a guy shouldn't hit me "just because I'm a girl". I'm a very independent person so I don't believe in double standards so in a way I do get what he is saying. Also, I'm not a typical "battered woman". I make a lot more than my bf does and he basically depends on my income. So it's not like I'm one of those women who stay with their batterer because they have no choice because they need their boyfriends/spouses for financial support. I could live very well without him. He's the one who would be struggling, not me. I have a lot of choices and I would never need to go to a shelter or anything. I have enough money to move or go anywhere I want. I guess I just want to make the point that I'm not a poor victim or someone that has no alternatives, because I do. Anyways, when he does hit me there's no bruises, it's just red and it goes away. The thing is when he hits me, I hit back too. And I also hit hard I guess, so it's not like I'm some victimized woman. I don't really know if it's abuse because we end up both hitting each other.... Also he claims he would never punch me in the face, but only hit with an open hand so it's not as bad. But I gotta say I hit back too. Link to post Share on other sites
blind_otter Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 mutually abusive relationships are a reality. it's called "Crazy making" behaviors. they occur in abusive relationships and IMO there are a lot of abusive relationships where both parties are abusive. Rent the classic film "Who's Afraid of Virginia Wolf" and you'll probably recognize the back and forth. Link to post Share on other sites
Author cutegirl Posted August 2, 2006 Author Share Posted August 2, 2006 mutually abusive relationships are a reality. it's called "Crazy making" behaviors. they occur in abusive relationships and IMO there are a lot of abusive relationships where both parties are abusive. Rent the classic film "Who's Afraid of Virginia Wolf" and you'll probably recognize the back and forth. Also, I think he exaggerates because I'm BARELY 5 ft tall, and I weigh under 90 lbs... So it's not like I can hit very hard or am very threatening. Yesterday we got in a bad fight and he slapped a few times in the face. He CLAIMS that I hit him first in the shoulder but I don't remember that. I honestly don't remember who hit who first because during a fight I'm angry and have adrenaling flowing through me. I don't THINK I hit him, I think I was yelling at him about something but he claims I hit or pushed him in the shoulder first so then he slapped me a few times across the face to "wake me up". Link to post Share on other sites
blind_otter Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 Also, I think he exaggerates because I'm BARELY 5 ft tall, and I weigh under 90 lbs... So it's not like I can hit very hard or am very threatening. this is HARDLY an excuse to use physical violence. I wouldn't tolerate that excuse from a child, much less from an adult, regardless of your physical stature. Aggression is aggression. . I don't THINK I hit him, I think I was yelling at him about something but he claims I hit or pushed him in the shoulder first so then he slapped me a few times across the face to "wake me up". I think you both need anger management therapy. Link to post Share on other sites
Author cutegirl Posted August 2, 2006 Author Share Posted August 2, 2006 I also have a question about counseling in general, IF we ever were to go to counseling, will the counselor file a police report if we slapped each other or something? Or file some police report about domestic violence? Link to post Share on other sites
blind_otter Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 No, one or the other of you two would have to. But really, anger management is great. It worked for me. You need to understand that this behavior is unacceptable. If you had a child, you would not tolerate that behavior towards you, so why on earth is it ok for you to act like that to each other? Link to post Share on other sites
Author cutegirl Posted August 2, 2006 Author Share Posted August 2, 2006 No, one or the other of you two would have to. But really, anger management is great. It worked for me. You need to understand that this behavior is unacceptable. If you had a child, you would not tolerate that behavior towards you, so why on earth is it ok for you to act like that to each other? Sorry, I didn't get what you meant by this "No, one or the other of you two would have to." Did you mean that one of us would have to file a police report? We don't want the police to get involved, we just want to go to counselling. My bf does come from a dysfunctional home, he claims in his family they all hit each other, his dad puches his mom in the face and vice versa and he claims he got punched by father all the time too, so that's where he probably got it from. I never got really physical with my ex. My ex never hit me or "provoked" me. I think I have some anger management stuff within me, but if I'm with a "normal healthy" guy it won't come out, but since I'm with another person who is also dysfunctional and has anger management issues, it really brings out the worst in me. Link to post Share on other sites
blind_otter Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 yes. You or your BF would have to file a police report. That last paragraph was very insightful. Link to post Share on other sites
Author cutegirl Posted August 2, 2006 Author Share Posted August 2, 2006 yes. You or your BF would have to file a police report. That last paragraph was very insightful. So in that case counselling is out of the question. Why would we have to file a report if it's just slapping in the face? I don't think that's a big deal. He didn't punch me in the face or anything. Who actually files reports for a few slaps in the face? So now we can't go see counselling because we would have to file a report. Why on earth would we want to do that? How is that going to help? We just want to talk with a therapist about issues. No need to get the police involved. This makes it impossible for people to seek therapy without getting the police involved. It's not like I got battered or anything. So now I can't talk it over with someone without having to file a report? That's ridiculous. If he pushed me, would I have to file a report too? That sounds really lame So now we get punished because we want to seek help and anger management? Link to post Share on other sites
ilmw Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 Where I live...any alligation of assault (of any kind ie: slap ) is arrestable... Victim does not even have to give a statement... If you want to stay out of the Sh$t make some major changes NOW.. both of you.. IMO Link to post Share on other sites
Author cutegirl Posted August 3, 2006 Author Share Posted August 3, 2006 Where I live...any alligation of assault (of any kind ie: slap ) is arrestable... Victim does not even have to give a statement... If you want to stay out of the Sh$t make some major changes NOW.. both of you.. IMO What state do you live in where slapping is an assault? I never heard of this before... Also when I was younger my mother slapped me a few times in the face, but I don't consider it abuse. It was when I was really misbehaving.... Link to post Share on other sites
JamesM Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 IMHO, the fact that you need physical abuse defined already states that you know there is a problem. My wife and I have never hit each other. However, if she hits me in anger, this does not give me the right to hit her back. And especially if she touches me, this is not a license to slap. And yes, I differentiate..the stronger partner has the greater responsibility to control his or her physical strength. I am sorry, but I believe you are in a physically abusive relationship. You need to decide if you want to be hit around for the rest of your life. And if you say you love this guy, and things will change, I highly doubt it. You mention you make more so a breakup would not be a problem for you just for him...then why are you with him? Why do you "love" him when he doesn't show his love for you? I agree...you both need anger management, but I suspect he will not think he needs it. If his father punched his mother in the face, he will be doing it to you. I think you are fooling yourself into believing that he will control himself and "only" slap you in the face. This relationship is not a good one for either of you. I have doubts whether he can maintain a proper relationship without counseling since he had a poor role model to follow. You have the abilty and control to have a healthy one, so please go do the right thing for yourself. Link to post Share on other sites
ilmw Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 Assault: a person commits assault when, without consent of another person, applies force intentionally to that other person directly or indirectly...etc ( there is more but it goes on about acts and gestures (Criminal Code of Canada) Maybe I should have been more clear....the not needing a statement is in domestic assault matters (here.. if you are in an sexual relationship its considered domestic) Oh yeah... this is Domstic Violence Protocol in Ontaro Canada... Link to post Share on other sites
CrushedOrgans Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 So in that case counselling is out of the question. Why would we have to file a report if it's just slapping in the face? now we get punished because we want to seek help and anger management? no. she was saying that a counselor cannot file a report, it would have to be you or your boyfriend IF anyone were to file one at all. Link to post Share on other sites
Author cutegirl Posted August 3, 2006 Author Share Posted August 3, 2006 IMHO, the fact that you need physical abuse defined already states that you know there is a problem. My wife and I have never hit each other. However, if she hits me in anger, this does not give me the right to hit her back. And especially if she touches me, this is not a license to slap. And yes, I differentiate..the stronger partner has the greater responsibility to control his or her physical strength. I am sorry, but I believe you are in a physically abusive relationship. You need to decide if you want to be hit around for the rest of your life. And if you say you love this guy, and things will change, I highly doubt it. You mention you make more so a breakup would not be a problem for you just for him...then why are you with him? Why do you "love" him when he doesn't show his love for you? I agree...you both need anger management, but I suspect he will not think he needs it. If his father punched his mother in the face, he will be doing it to you. I think you are fooling yourself into believing that he will control himself and "only" slap you in the face. This relationship is not a good one for either of you. I have doubts whether he can maintain a proper relationship without counseling since he had a poor role model to follow. You have the abilty and control to have a healthy one, so please go do the right thing for yourself. I meant that a breakup would be financially hard on him not me, but I'm still with him for now because I chose to be. Isn't it a bit sexist though to put more burden on the man or physically stronger partner to restrain themselves? I find it sexist because it makes ME look like I'm weak like I need to be protected. I don't feel like I need to be protected like a "porcelain doll", I think I'm just as capable as any guy. My bf thinks that if I touch him when he tells me not to it his a license to slap, he feels like that his right, like if he tells someone not to touch him and they do anyways he has a right to "protect" himself. I know it's my fault too for being stupid by touching him, but it's because when we're in a fight he likes to be immature and tune me out by actually plugging his ears (like a little kid) so he can't hear what I have to say. About the therapy thing, I don't understand how people who WANT to seek help can actually do so now that the therapist has to file a police report if we start talking about our fights and the slapping... I think this is discouraging people to actually seek help now. Now I can't go to a therapist to talk about my issues because I don't want a report filed. Link to post Share on other sites
ilmw Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 Also when I was younger my mother slapped me a few times in the face, but I don't consider it abuse. It was when I was really misbehaving.... ****************************************** Once again it depends where you are from...here..parents can apply force (reasonable force) to control their children.. Also times have changed to what is considered exceptable... my mother used to use a wooden spoon... that it kinda frowned on these days.. Link to post Share on other sites
Author cutegirl Posted August 3, 2006 Author Share Posted August 3, 2006 no. she was saying that a counselor cannot file a report, it would have to be you or your boyfriend IF anyone were to file one at all. Oh I get it now. Thanks for clearing that up! I thought the counselor would be obligated to file a report against one of us so that would deter me to go to counselling in the first place... Ok thanks for clarifying that. I just want to talk to someone without being afraid of them having to report something to the police. Link to post Share on other sites
tanbark813 Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 You're contradicting yourself. If you feel you're just as capable as any guy then why do you not consider your abuse as serious as his? Neither one of you should be hitting the other. Link to post Share on other sites
Author cutegirl Posted August 3, 2006 Author Share Posted August 3, 2006 You're contradicting yourself. If you feel you're just as capable as any guy then why do you not consider your abuse as serious as his? Neither one of you should be hitting the other. Because I don't really remember hitting him first yesterday, in my mind I think he hit my first. He claims I hit him first. I can't really remember in detail. I wish we had a camera or something so we could see once and for all who hit who first. When he slapped me he slapped me like 4 or 5 times, and I FEEL like I slapped him back in self defense. He claims I lunged at him. Our fights are weird like that, it's once persons word against the other. We have different perceptions of what really happened. He thinks it happened one way and I think it happened another way. Mabye I did touch him first, but I don't think I hit him. Link to post Share on other sites
CrushedOrgans Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 About the therapy thing, I don't understand how people who WANT to seek help can actually do so now that the therapist has to file a police report if we start talking about our fights and the slapping... I think this is discouraging people to actually seek help now. Now I can't go to a therapist to talk about my issues because I don't want a report filed. cutegirl, please read my other post in your thread. once again, you misunderstood. you do NOT have to file a report, and the counselor will not file one for you. Link to post Share on other sites
Author cutegirl Posted August 3, 2006 Author Share Posted August 3, 2006 cutegirl, please read my other post in your thread. once again, you misunderstood. you do NOT have to file a report, and the counselor will not file one for you. Yes, I read your quote. thank you for clarifying that Link to post Share on other sites
CrushedOrgans Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 Yes, I read your quote. thank you for clarifying that you're welcome. Link to post Share on other sites
JamesM Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 Why is it sexist or protectionist? Why does ANYONE have the "right" to hit another person in anger? Why can he hit you for touching him? What part of "it is my fault" is REALLY your fault? No, I say it again, in any relationship, the stronger one has the responsibility to control himself/herself...and yes, men are battered, too. Physical abuse is always caused by uncontrolled anger and demand for power and control. When we learn how to resolve our anger in confrontational situations and learn to resolve the problem constructively, then both partners have a win-win solution. Here is your quote... My bf thinks that if I touch him when he tells me not to it his a license to slap, he feels like that his right, like if he tells someone not to touch him and they do anyways he has a right to "protect" himself. I know it's my fault too for being stupid by touching him, but it's because when we're in a fight he likes to be immature and tune me out by actually plugging his ears (like a little kid) so he can't hear what I have to say. Abused women...and men...always blame themselves for the situation. I hear the beginnings of an abusive relationship that can turn deadly. And truthfully, you both need to learn how to fight. A successful relationship can only be had when both partners learn how to fight. I know you meant financially you would be better off..that is why I ask again...what holds you in a relationship which you know is bad for you? Link to post Share on other sites
Author cutegirl Posted August 3, 2006 Author Share Posted August 3, 2006 Why is it sexist or protectionist? Why does ANYONE have the "right" to hit another person in anger? Why can he hit you for touching him? What part of "it is my fault" is REALLY your fault? No, I say it again, in any relationship, the stronger one has the responsibility to control himself/herself...and yes, men are battered, too. Physical abuse is always caused by uncontrolled anger and demand for power and control. When we learn how to resolve our anger in confrontational situations and learn to resolve the problem constructively, then both partners have a win-win solution. Here is your quote... Abused women...and men...always blame themselves for the situation. I hear the beginnings of an abusive relationship that can turn deadly. And truthfully, you both need to learn how to fight. A successful relationship can only be had when both partners learn how to fight. I know you meant financially you would be better off..that is why I ask again...what holds you in a relationship which you know is bad for you? I don't know really, probably because I'm used to him and attached. I don't know why I found it sexist, I just don't feel like I need protection from a man. It's like "typical battered woman syndrome" to be afraid of the man and need protection or something. I don't feel like Im like that. I am just attached to him and it's hard to walk away even if you have your own money and could go anywhere in the world. I don't really know why but it just is. It's like an obsession maybe, like once you're used to someone it's almost impossible to let go (for me anyways). And if he does agree to go to therapy then that would be good right? I don't know why he thinks it's ok to hit me for touching him. I think it's because "I touched him first" so I instigated it. Or I'm "invading" his space. He compared it to a woman getting raped, like if she says NO it means NO, and if the guy touches her it's like rape. So if I touch him when he says no, obviously it's not rape cause I don't wanna have sex, I just want to get him to listen., but to him it's just as invasive. He claims that if he were to call the police and he told them that he hit me because I touched him first, they would not arrest him because I touched him first. Of course we're not gonna call the police but it's just hypothetically speaking. Do you think you're exaggerating a bit or being overly dramatic by saying the relationship is potentially "deadly?" Since when is slapping deadly? Yes, I know like 45 percent of women who are killed are killed by their bf's or spouses or whatever, but it's not like I have any bruises. I also feel like I have the upper hand cause I make more. I won't starve if he leaves me. He might though. Link to post Share on other sites
Author cutegirl Posted August 3, 2006 Author Share Posted August 3, 2006 Also, my bf claims that HE is the one who is being abused. So now I don't know who is being abuse. He claims that I abuse him. Link to post Share on other sites
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