Is slapping abuse if I push or hit him first?

[tanbark813]

You are if you're hitting him. You guys are abusing each other (which I think has already been said a bunch of times in this thread).

[norajane]

If the adrenaline rush in the heat of anger is causing you to forget or not really know what happened, you're both in danger of hurting each other badly, of allowing this mutually abusive pattern of behavior to escalate completley out of control, and could cause your neighbors to call the police when they overhear continual or a particularly bad fight.

 

Get some therapy even if you don't choose to stay with him.

[SoCalCatman72]

I'd like to add my 2 cents.

 

1. The counselor or doctor (or clergy or any other type of licensed therapist) is REQUIRED by law to file a police report if they feel that a person is in imminent grave danger from another. This includes plausible threats of death or significant bodily harm against another made in the witness of the counselor. Fisticuffs generally won't be reported, but if you show up with multiple cuts, contusions and fractures, expect a visit from social services.

 

2. To say that someone "deserves" to be beaten for slapping is absolutely ridiculous. One can lawfully only use the amount of force required to defend themselves from bodily harm. If you are a small lady slapping at an average sized man, IMO anything other than blocking or simple restraining of the wrists with ones hands is excessive force. Now if you came at him with a club, knife or a gun, then the level of necessary force is proportionately increased.

 

I mean for example, if a suspect tried to slap a police officer, and the officer were to then take out his PR29 and beat the suspect silly, the public would be screaming about the use of "excessive" force.

[JamesM]

I am not a woman, but comparing a touch to rape is like comparing a cut to an amputated arm. Not even close.

 

And yes, if you are HITTING him, then you are abusing him as well. However, from my experience, I doubt the police will let him off if he says you "touched" him. Usually the guy gets the blames in domestic violence situations.

 

 

I understand that you can't leave him. He is your life now. And I hear you saying alot that you are at fault. This may or may not be true, but when I hear that he slaps you in the face a few times because you touch him...your words...then I become concerned for you. And if you are the one that would lose in a fight, then yes, he has a greater responsibility for controlling his physical response to your "touch."

 

I think as sidi earlier if you want to stay with him, the you both need anger counselling...immediately. What did I mean by deadly? When people resort to physical violence, it can easily escalate into serious injury or even death. That is what the statistics show. And I remember an employee of mine who also thought she had left the situation and yet he came and killed her. Her relationship of abuse escalated into her death because she didn't leave soon enough.

 

Keep looking for a solution or leave. Please do not accept your relationship as "normal" or as your fault.

[Craig]

I mean for example, if a suspect tried to slap a police officer, and the officer were to then take out his PR29 and beat the suspect silly, the public would be screaming about the use of "excessive" force.

Ahahaha but only if there were video tape of the incident. Otherwise it's the cop's word against the 'suspect's.'

[cutegirl]

I'd like to add my 2 cents.

 

1. The counselor or doctor (or clergy or any other type of licensed therapist) is REQUIRED by law to file a police report if they feel that a person is in imminent grave danger from another. This includes plausible threats of death or significant bodily harm against another made in the witness of the counselor. Fisticuffs generally won't be reported, but if you show up with multiple cuts, contusions and fractures, expect a visit from social services.

 

2. To say that someone "deserves" to be beaten for slapping is absolutely ridiculous. One can lawfully only use the amount of force required to defend themselves from bodily harm. If you are a small lady slapping at an average sized man, IMO anything other than blocking or simple restraining of the wrists with ones hands is excessive force. Now if you came at him with a club, knife or a gun, then the level of necessary force is proportionately increased.

 

I mean for example, if a suspect tried to slap a police officer, and the officer were to then take out his PR29 and beat the suspect silly, the public would be screaming about the use of "excessive" force.

 

Ummm no I don't have marks or bruises. If it's too high risk to go to a counsellor than forget it, I don't want to deal with it.

 

I wasn't "slapping" him. He thinks even if I touch him when he tells me not to it warrants a slapping, not a beating. He claims he is not stronger than me either, the thing about the stronger person supposedly having to have more restraint. He claims it's his fundamental right to have someone not touch him since it's his body, so if he tells me not to and I do it anyways I'm provoking.

 

He says "Just because I'm bigger doesn't mean I'm stronger." lol

So he is claiming he is weak too and not much stronger than me. I know he's stronger than me, not really strong, but stronger, but he claims he's not so there goes that lol

[cutegirl]

I am not a woman, but comparing a touch to rape is like comparing a cut to an amputated arm. Not even close.

 

And yes, if you are HITTING him, then you are abusing him as well. However, from my experience, I doubt the police will let him off if he says you "touched" him. Usually the guy gets the blames in domestic violence situations.

 

 

I understand that you can't leave him. He is your life now. And I hear you saying alot that you are at fault. This may or may not be true, but when I hear that he slaps you in the face a few times because you touch him...your words...then I become concerned for you. And if you are the one that would lose in a fight, then yes, he has a greater responsibility for controlling his physical response to your "touch."

 

I think as sidi earlier if you want to stay with him, the you both need anger counselling...immediately. What did I mean by deadly? When people resort to physical violence, it can easily escalate into serious injury or even death. That is what the statistics show. And I remember an employee of mine who also thought she had left the situation and yet he came and killed her. Her relationship of abuse escalated into her death because she didn't leave soon enough.

 

Keep looking for a solution or leave. Please do not accept your relationship as "normal" or as your fault.

 

I doubt my bf would come after me and kill me if I left. He's willing to leave himself. If I want to kick him out of my place all I gotta do is say the word. It is MY place, I'm the one who pays bills. I'm not a typical battered woman, I control the finances. He is also at my mercy.

 

Right now I really doubt "slapping" leads to death. Like I said, he would never use a fist on me, only slapping. I read stuff about women getting black eyes and cut or whatever. This is only a slap.

[cutegirl]

I am not a woman, but comparing a touch to rape is like comparing a cut to an amputated arm. Not even close.

 

And yes, if you are HITTING him, then you are abusing him as well. However, from my experience, I doubt the police will let him off if he says you "touched" him. Usually the guy gets the blames in domestic violence situations.

 

 

I understand that you can't leave him. He is your life now. And I hear you saying alot that you are at fault. This may or may not be true, but when I hear that he slaps you in the face a few times because you touch him...your words...then I become concerned for you. And if you are the one that would lose in a fight, then yes, he has a greater responsibility for controlling his physical response to your "touch."

 

I think as sidi earlier if you want to stay with him, the you both need anger counselling...immediately. What did I mean by deadly? When people resort to physical violence, it can easily escalate into serious injury or even death. That is what the statistics show. And I remember an employee of mine who also thought she had left the situation and yet he came and killed her. Her relationship of abuse escalated into her death because she didn't leave soon enough.

 

Keep looking for a solution or leave. Please do not accept your relationship as "normal" or as your fault.

 

 

Also, I never said it was my fault or that I instigated it. I am trying to explain HIS reasonings and his justifications. Not mine. I was trying to explain it from his point of view.

 

I don't ever recall saying that I feel that I am wrong.

[whatwentwrong19]

It's hard to someone to tell you "Leave that abusive relation" when you're really in love and leaving gets harder the longer you stay.

[Outcast]

Right now I really doubt "slapping" leads to death. Like I said, he would never use a fist on me, only slapping. I read stuff about women getting black eyes and cut or whatever. This is only a slap.

 

So far. You are in serious denial. There is a cycle of abuse and abusers get on the cycle and follow it predictably. Starts with 'just' slapping. Maybe pushing or restraining - grabbing. No bruises yet. In a while, there'll be bruises. Later, there'll be fists. Maybe weapons. It always escalates.

 

This is not love and he is not your life. You are in a very unhealthy dance of mutual destruction. This is not some lovely romance. It's dysfunction squared.

 

Call a domestic violence centre anonymously. Talk to them. Do searches on 'domestic violence' and read about how you are minimizing unacceptable behaviour. And as the behaviour escalates, you will continue to minimize it, accept blame, see it 'from his side', etc.

 

Love is about being each other's 'soft place to land'. It's not about landing hits on each other's soft places.

[SoCalCatman72]

Well about the counselor, if they don't think you are in imminent danger, they most likely will not file any reports. However there are a few self appointed "heros" out there that will cross the professional boundary, so be sure you are comfortable with the counselor.

 

Ok, now as to the "slapping", IMO if you touch him when he expressly indicates that he does not want to be touched, and he is merely slapping your hand or arm away, that is one thing. However if he slaps you anywhere else, especially near the face, that IMO is crossing a serious line. IMO to slap anything else is indicitive of a retaliatory gesture. e.g. he has to "get back" at you or "teach you a lesson", I believe is extremely unhealthy in a romantic relationship and leads me to wonder if there are other deeper and inevitably more sinister issues afoot. Additionally, the whole not wanting to be touched issue has me puzzled. As human beings we are genetically encoded from birth to need human touch and interactions. In fact, an infant who is sheltered, fed and changed will simply die if they do not receive human touch and love. I can understand not wanting to be touched by a stranger (someone I don't know well touches me, and they'll draw back a bloody stump), but to not want to be touched by one's companion, lover and friend is troublesome.

 

Additionally I am curious as to the context of these "incidents", does he expressly indicate to you that he doesn't want to be touched, and you do it anyways, do you forget he doesn't want to be touched, does he not tell you anything .....I'm a bit confused in this regard.

 

Additionally, as to the strength issue, well I am study Tae Kwon Do and I can tell you that someone who really wants to hurt someone else, size and relative strength doesn't matter, in fact most of my instructors are much smaller than I am, yet I am sure they could easily kill me with their bare hands if they wanted. Add in the factor that many random household items can be easily made into a lethal weapon and voila the "stronger" person is maimed or dead. As to the "stronger" person having more emotional restraint, that has absolutely no bearing on physical strength. In fact such a statement is so asinine it makes me wonder what color the air is in his world.

 

As to abuse leading to death, this is a very real possibility. I'm already concerned as to his motivations behind the "slapping" and if it is in fact to "put you in your place" or "teach you a lesson" then there is an extremely unstable and dangerous personality behind these actions. As to the place being yours and you pay all the bills, etc..... Well, if his motivations for the "slapping" are vindictive (sp?) then to suddenly boot him out and remove from him the domestic "stability" that he currently enjoys can potentially lead to a violent emotional break.

 

Look, I'm not trying to scare you....but I categorically urge you to carefully consider the implications of his actions. People who are in love with one another don't hit each other for any reason (unless you are into bondage/S&M:p )

 

Take Care and Good Luck

[cutegirl]

Well about the counselor, if they don't think you are in imminent danger, they most likely will not file any reports. However there are a few self appointed "heros" out there that will cross the professional boundary, so be sure you are comfortable with the counselor.

 

Ok, now as to the "slapping", IMO if you touch him when he expressly indicates that he does not want to be touched, and he is merely slapping your hand or arm away, that is one thing. However if he slaps you anywhere else, especially near the face, that IMO is crossing a serious line. IMO to slap anything else is indicitive of a retaliatory gesture. e.g. he has to "get back" at you or "teach you a lesson", I believe is extremely unhealthy in a romantic relationship and leads me to wonder if there are other deeper and inevitably more sinister issues afoot. Additionally, the whole not wanting to be touched issue has me puzzled. As human beings we are genetically encoded from birth to need human touch and interactions. In fact, an infant who is sheltered, fed and changed will simply die if they do not receive human touch and love. I can understand not wanting to be touched by a stranger (someone I don't know well touches me, and they'll draw back a bloody stump), but to not want to be touched by one's companion, lover and friend is troublesome.

 

Additionally I am curious as to the context of these "incidents", does he expressly indicate to you that he doesn't want to be touched, and you do it anyways, do you forget he doesn't want to be touched, does he not tell you anything .....I'm a bit confused in this regard.

 

Additionally, as to the strength issue, well I am study Tae Kwon Do and I can tell you that someone who really wants to hurt someone else, size and relative strength doesn't matter, in fact most of my instructors are much smaller than I am, yet I am sure they could easily kill me with their bare hands if they wanted. Add in the factor that many random household items can be easily made into a lethal weapon and voila the "stronger" person is maimed or dead. As to the "stronger" person having more emotional restraint, that has absolutely no bearing on physical strength. In fact such a statement is so asinine it makes me wonder what color the air is in his world.

 

As to abuse leading to death, this is a very real possibility. I'm already concerned as to his motivations behind the "slapping" and if it is in fact to "put you in your place" or "teach you a lesson" then there is an extremely unstable and dangerous personality behind these actions. As to the place being yours and you pay all the bills, etc..... Well, if his motivations for the "slapping" are vindictive (sp?) then to suddenly boot him out and remove from him the domestic "stability" that he currently enjoys can potentially lead to a violent emotional break.

 

Look, I'm not trying to scare you....but I categorically urge you to carefully consider the implications of his actions. People who are in love with one another don't hit each other for any reason (unless you are into bondage/S&M:p )

 

Take Care and Good Luck

 

 

No kicking him out will not lead to violence because he often WANTS to leave and I'm the one who begs him back, don't ask me why but I do, so NO, it doesn't lead to an emotional outbreak. A lot of times he wants to leave but I'm the one who holds him back. He wanted to leave a lot and always packs his stuff by the door but I always beg him back and then we make up. People are assuming incorrectly that if we break up it will be violent, most of the time he WANTS to leave. I'm the one who cries and cries and then he stays.

 

The touching thing is just only when we are fighting. He is immature and likes to plug his fingers in his ears because he claims I am yelling at him, which to be honest I probably am, so by "touching" I mean I'm pulling out his fingers so he can here me or making him listen to me.

 

He's a grown man but very immature, when he thinks I'm yelling at him, he will

tune me out by making weird noises, like Jim Carrey impersonations or mumble weird cartoon noises. I am physically I guess "forcing" him to listen to me, because he is trying to irritate me on purpose by not listening in the first place. It's like something a 6 year old boy would do, plug his ears. And THATS when he says "Don't touch me" because he doesn't want to hear what I have to say.

[Outcast]

You are not entitled to force someone to listen to you. It's not as if it'll help, anyway.

[cutegirl]

Christ I can't edit my msg, "here" is supposed to be "hear". Yes I do know the difference between "here" vs "hear".

[cutegirl]

You are not entitled to force someone to listen to you. It's not as if it'll help, anyway.

 

I just never heard of grown man plugging his ear like a little kid. It irritates the crap out of me so that's when we start struggling usually.

[Outcast]

Too bad if it irritates you. You don't get to take out your annoyance on anybody. Walk away.

[blind_otter]

About the therapy thing, I don't understand how people who WANT to seek help can actually do so now that the therapist has to file a police report if we start talking about our fights and the slapping... I think this is discouraging people to actually seek help now. Now I can't go to a therapist to talk about my issues because I don't want a report filed.

 

For the third time, the therapist does NOT have to file a police report, OK?

 

The only time authorities are involved is if your life or your partner's life is at risk.