Loving your abuser, is that possible?

[whatwentwrong19]

Is it really possible to really love someone that screams, calls you names and hits you and constantly say "It's all your fault", when you know it's not (I'm a guy by the way).

[whatwentwrong19]

Is that really possible or I must be crazy? But see, she does have other good qualities.

[Craig]

Is it really possible to really love someone that screams, calls you names and hits you and constantly say "It's all your fault", when you know it's not (I'm a guy by the way).

Yes it is possible but true love will not allow you to stay with someone that screams, calls you names and hits you constantly. True love will insist that you do what is best for them whether they like it (or you as a result) or not. True love will insist that you seek counseling for yourself and do what it takes to do what is best for you--even if that means calling 911 when she hits you and leaves a mark.

 

Or it can mean leaving the relationship, hopefully under your own power and not in a bodybag.

 

Abusers, in general, stay abusers. If any change is made it is in the type of abuse they deal out to their victims.

 

She may have some great qualities but it is only going to get worse and worse for you until one day you are maybe going to wake up and realize you wasted years or decades of your life. You will become a shadow of your former self, so much so that even your family won't recognize you. Eventually you won't think about your future but only of the next few days and even that will be hard. Your life will become nothing, you will have no opinion, no goals other than to do whatever you can to avoid another blowup by her. You will cease to exist as an individual, thinking, feeling human being and even then it won't be good enough for her.

[Outcast]

It may be love of a sort. Or it could be addiction. Whatever it is, it's not healthy. And 'love' is never sufficient to stay with someone. Especially someone who could endanger your life or psyche or health or the lives or psyches or health of those dear to you.

[Butterflying]

Yes it's possible to love someone who abuses you. But if this happens, you should understand why you love this type of person. Ultimately, there is a flaw in the abused as well as the abuser when an abusive relationship is sustained.

 

I was in a mentally and verbally abusive relationship once. That type of abuse is subtle. It took several years for me to fully understand what happened to me. And even after reality set in, I still loved him. Then I got professional counseling and discovered that I hated myself. Once I learned to love myself, I no longer loved the abuser because I know he didn't love me.

 

I guess the question could be... "Does an abuser love the people they abuse?"

[Craig]

I guess the question could be... "Does an abuser love the people they abuse?"

Excellent point Butterflying! I don't believe abusers are capable of love.

[Outcast]

I don't agree. I think they can love in some fashion, but that they are badly damaged so that they cannot stop themselves from acting out anger.

 

I don't think it helps to dehumanize them. I think we need to understand that a lot of these people were abused and mistreated in their own lives and that until we put a stop to abuse of all kinds, people will continue to create new generations of abusers.

 

If we dehumanize them, we no longer see them as the unfortunate consequence of tragic lives and aren't motivated to try to save people from this fate early enough in their lives to prevent them turning into abusers. IMHO.

[Craig]

OC, I didn't intend to dehumanize anyone. If anything they are amongst the most fragile and fearful humans I've ever seen. People to be pitied but not people to build a life with.

 

The door to the rest of the human race is always open to the abuser and all they need do is walk through it leaving their fears and dysfunction behind. If I could find a way to effect permanent change in abusers I'd do it full time for no pay but nothing I've learned has even hinted that abusers, in general will ever change.

 

That being said, yes, it is hugely important to do what ever we can to save people from this fate early in their lives and prevent the forming of more abusers. But about the only advice I can give is to a victim/survivor is to move on and get back the life they once had before their abuser entered their life. If enough people didn't accept abuse in their lives the abusers would have to take notice. Wouldn't they?

[whatwentwrong19]

I don't think it helps to dehumanize them. I think we need to understand that a lot of these people were abused and mistreated in their own lives and that until we put a stop to abuse of all kinds, people will continue to create new generations of abusers.

 

I could understand that but see she doesn't come from any abuse, not that I know of, instead comes from a decent and stable family. I met her parents and her siblings, none of them are abusive. And she wans't rape either, so as to why she's like that to em I don't really know.

 

 

[Butterflying]

I don't agree. I think they can love in some fashion, but that they are badly damaged so that they cannot stop themselves from acting out anger.

What good is love if it literally kills you?

 

Love is very difficult to define, so I won't say abusers aren't capable of any type of love. But I am certain that they aren't capable of the unselfish, nurturing, and healthy love that everyone needs (unless they want to change and get help).

 

For me to love an abuser, I had to hate myself. But I know that the abuser also hated himself. That's why he was abusive. We were attracted to each other because we both had low self-esteem. Except, we handled it differently. His method was abuse. My method was punishing myself by allowing him to abuse me. This is deep...but that part of me felt that I deserved the abuse. Ultimately, this was not love. It was a consequence of low self-esteem.

[Outcast]

If anything they are amongst the most fragile and fearful humans I've ever seen. People to be pitied but not people to build a life with.

 

Agree on both counts. I certainly hope nothing I've said sounds as though I think otherwise!

 

The door to the rest of the human race is always open to the abuser and all they need do is walk through it leaving their fears and dysfunction behind.

 

They're broken, Craig. Did you know that some animals won't step out onto a glass floor? Even to get across it to safety? You make it sound so easy - the way people tell a grieving parent to 'just get over it' when a baby has died. It's not like they get up in the morning and think 'gee, I could hit people today or I could not. I guess I will'. Their issues come from a place too deep to be reached.

 

If I could find a way to effect permanent change in abusers I'd do it full time for no pay but nothing I've learned has even hinted that abusers, in general will ever change.

 

The more we learn about the brain, the more we learn that permanent damage can be done by a variety of means. Two intensive studies in North America on the most violent criminals showed that all were abused and all had brain damage. If you abuse a child, you risk creating a ball of fury that will explode on others later. Very likely, the abuse you mete out to the child will actually damage it - physically and mentally - beyond repair.

 

But about the only advice I can give is to a victim/survivor is to move on and get back the life they once had before their abuser entered their life. If enough people didn't accept abuse in their lives the abusers would have to take notice. Wouldn't they?

 

Not really. Just as some alcoholics will drink themselves literally to death and some obese people will eat themselves to death, people who engage in self-destructive behaviours will just keep doing it regardless of the consequences. Once somebody's damaged and broken, it's often too late.

 

Who has to take notice is the neighbour or relative or friend of the little kids that are too skinny, always having bruises and broken limbs, or, worse, are never seen outdoors. Who has to take notice is the person next door listening as a child screams for hours in pain as the parent shrieks. Doctors, teachers, everyone in 'the village' has to save children from these awful fates. That's how to change this.

[Craig]

OC, I didn't intend to make anything about dealing with abusers sound easy or to imply that they had the power to immediately change or even change over time.

 

Just like alcoholics, people that eat themselves to death, etc. the abusers always have enablers. People that accept, deny, or excuse their behavior. If it became overwhelmingly uncool to provide support for people with these challenges then maybe some of them would be forced to make decisions regarding their behavior that would improve the prospects for a better tomorrow, if only for the rest of us.

 

It's not possible at this time to 'fix' the abuser but I have had the indirect experience of seeing an abusers abusive behaviour reduced in magnitude with the use of an SSRI (antidepressant) and anti-seizure medication. The tendency to abuse was still there but the abuser was able to be more aware of when it was starting and that greatly reduced the duration and intesity of the rage stage of the cycle. But this person had to get arrested first and then be subjected to a year of court mandated counseling, anger management courses and sessions with a psychiatrist. It wasn't a cure but it was enough that her husband decided to stay with her instead of divorcing. (and no it isn't me )

 

PS - Do you have links to those two studies you mentioned?

[Outcast]

I'll hunt them up but have to zip off to work right now.

[blind_otter]

I could understand that but see she doesn't come from any abuse, not that I know of, instead comes from a decent and stable family. I met her parents and her siblings, none of them are abusive. And she wans't rape either, so as to why she's like that to em I don't really know.

 

 

 

You don't really know what the situation is. Abusive families rarely express their abusive tendencies in front of "strangers" -- ie anyone outside the family circle. Abusive families tend to keep that behavior behind closed doors.

 

And how do you know she wasn't raped? I have a horrific sexual background, but to meet me you would never know. Many rape victims hate to share their pasts with partners out of fear of the reaction. Men tend to not handle this information well.

[burning 4 revenge]

there can be a mesmerizing attraction to being abused for some people. i've experienced it. obviously, butterflying had masochistic tendencies from what she said. sometimes you just want to be hated

[Craig]

I'll hunt them up but have to zip off to work right now.

 

Thank you.

 

You don't really know what the situation is. Abusive families rarely express their abusive tendencies in front of "strangers" -- ie anyone outside the family circle. Abusive families tend to keep that behavior behind closed doors.

Absolutely, 100% correct! In fact abusive families can appear to the outsider to be quite wonderful. Once you are close enough to them, just like once you are close enough to an abuser, they start to show who they really are.

[burning 4 revenge]

Craig, didn't you say your SO was severely overweight?

 

Part of my attraction to the abuse was I felt she was my physical superior and I was being treated accordingly, but if I had found her physically unappealing I would have just laughed at her.

 

Why did you stick around?

[Craig]

Craig, didn't you say your SO was severely overweight?

 

Part of my attraction to the abuse was I felt she was my physical superior and I was being treated accordingly, but if I had found her physically unappealing I would have just laughed at her.

 

Why did you stick around?

 

Yes she was/is severely overweight but that has nothing to do with anything in my case. I don't judge a woman based on what is on the outside (as long as she's clean).

 

I'm attracted to a woman's good heart and her ability to use her brain.

 

That being said I've had relationships with women from 1 to 10 on what appears to be the generally accepted scale of physical beauty in our society. With the 10's I'd always ask myself if I was with her because of the way she looked or because of her. I devised this little test I would ask myself in such cases and that is if she was completely disfigured in an accident tomorrow, would I still be attracted to her?

 

I 'stuck around' because I didn't know then what I know now. Abusers show signs, they leave clues and if I met her for the first time today, I don't think I'd meet her a second time. I had this sense of commitment to the relationship believing that I could do something to make the relationship work and become mutually satisfying. Boy, was I wrong. Sometimes I feel like a total idiot for getting myself into that situation but it doesn't last long. Now I am on my path to recovery and getting my life back.

[quankanne]

I had this sense of commitment to the relationship believing that I could do something to make the relationship work and become mutually satisfying.

 

this makes sense, it's co-dependency of the strongest kind, because an abuser will take away everything that helps that person remain strong or independent, while the abused doesn't see it, but rather feels he or she can "change" the abuser for the better, that this is what they're *supposed* to do.

 

it's a sick cycle, and unless the person being abused stands up and says "No more, we're both getting help," it doesn't get any better.

[Craig]

I had this sense of commitment to the relationship believing that I could do something to make the relationship work and become mutually satisfying.

 

this makes sense, it's co-dependency of the strongest kind, because an abuser will take away everything that helps that person remain strong or independent, while the abused doesn't see it, but rather feels he or she can "change" the abuser for the better, that this is what they're *supposed* to do.

 

it's a sick cycle, and unless the person being abused stands up and says "No more, we're both getting help," it doesn't get any better.

 

Wow! Thank you. Slowly, the veil lifts a little more.

[Outcast]

this makes sense, it's co-dependency of the strongest kind, because an abuser will take away everything that helps that person remain strong or independent, while the abused doesn't see it, but rather feels he or she can "change" the abuser for the better, that this is what they're *supposed* to do.

 

We're not supposed to desert people. We're not supposed to give up in bad times. We're not supposed to give up in sickness. It's just that when they came up with those concepts, I doubt anyone considered or realized abuse was an issue. So you hang in there, seeing that the person is in pain and thinking maybe you can help. But nothing you do helps and you get abuse in return. And the harder you try, the less it works. But you think it's you because you're 'supposed' to stay and not quit and you're 'supposed' to love people no matter what.

 

Until someone tells you that that kind of broken isn't fixable by anyone, much less mere you. And then you realize, with great sadness, how much harm has been done to how many people that they become so damaged that no amount of love can help.

 

And, for a long while, you still feel like a failure.

[lindya]

Until someone tells you that that kind of broken isn't fixable by anyone, much less mere you. And then you realize, with great sadness, how much harm has been done to how many people that they become so damaged that no amount of love can help.

 

And, for a long while, you still feel like a failure.

 

 

It's not failure, though. You could devote your life to trying to help someone like that to manage their behaviour...and it still wouldn't be enough. I think it's very hard to stay in a relationship with anyone who has a marked personality disorder and not come out of the relationship feeling somewhat tainted by it for a while.

[Outcast]

It's not failure, though. You could devote your life to trying to help someone like that to manage their behaviour...and it still wouldn't be enough.

 

Oh sure. That makes perfect intellectual sense. Tell it to the heart!

[whatwentwrong19]

I know I should have done this a long time ago when it was the first time, but I guess I was too blind and stupid. I would see other good qualities and it was like I started not caring whenever she would take it out all on me or throwing me stuff, while at the same time I kepe thinking what on earth did I do to deserve such treatment. I would end up apologizing to her as well and it'll usually calm her down. After reading some article that talks about a loser (both male and female), then it came to my sense she had almost all the features of a it.

 

I didn't really think it was abuse because I kept asking myself "How can that be abuse if I'm a guy, isn't abuse only force done by men"?

 

Now I'm thinking of a nice way to leave her, definately not by person since she well.. unpredictable and can easily snap, so I'll write her or e-mail her. Funny thing, which I know you people might laugh, but I still love her. And I can imagine that when I leave her I would still think about coming back to her.

[Outcast]

because I kept asking myself "How can that be abuse if I'm a guy, isn't abuse only force done by men"?

 

No. It's not. It's mistreatment of an SO by an SO. Lesbians do it to each other. Gay guys do it to each other. Old people do it. It is absolutely NOT just 'force done by men'. It's emotional and/or physical and/or sexual mistreatment of someone to the point that it causes prolonged distress.