Sick of People's Dismissals! Porn-BLAH!

[kbah]

I was just bored and reading up on some random postings on LS and have come across numerous "porn" inquiries. Most of these postings are responded to with such lack of insight and crude, snap judgement that I feel takes the credibility and appeal out of this LS overall.

To the jury: Yes, there are a lot of women who are offended by porn. The whole "visual creature" **** is old (and this arguement is also, so I'll just stop now) The problem lies in the insubordinate attitude that has been taken to the issue in general. "JUST DEAL WITH IT...WE AREN'T GOING TO CHANGE" is what the attitude often is in many of the postings (from men and women might I add) Maybe the topic of porn is touchy, and some may argue about its rights within the boundaries of a relationship, but without a compromise there is no relationship. So when your wife is fat she'll just claim "I love chocolate- so deal with it!!!"

And by the way, there ARE times when porn is unacceptable. My bf used to surely abuse this for about a year in our relationship. I am talking everyday and numerous times a day. Before work, at work, after work, the moment I left and returned 30 minutes later (right after having sex). I finally dumped his ass for being such a jackass. Someone like that does not deserve to even BE in a relationship- so selfish. We stayed apart for a while and when I took him back- his attitude has seemed to change. He doesn't use porn anymore. I am not saying he NEVER will and that I would have a serious problem with it if he did, but if he ever abuses it (and me) in that way again??? HIS ASS IS GRASS!

[Tony T]

Unless there is a traumatic event which precipitates the withdrawal from addiction to pornography...such as in your case you leaving your boyfriend...there is seldom a recovery. If it happens, it's years down the road.

 

The advice given on this site is not by professional therapists but by people trying to help. Most of the advice is very good and helpful to someone who wants to incorporate it into what they are doing already.

 

I'm not quite sure what the purpose of your post is but it's infomative and helpful and thank you for putting it up. Most people don't just come out of the blue and criticize advice on the site in general for no particular reason. Please ignore the advice you may not agree with. Not every solution works for everybody. I tend to agree with many of those on the forum that if a significant other is heavily into porn and not willing to get help, you just leave. And, yes, I've never been in that situation but I really don't think I would remain with a mate who was obese and would not take action to lose weight. How superficial and shallow I am...for shame!!!

 

I'm very glad you're back with your boyfriend.

[Walk]

I have to agree with kbah. Some of the responses are so overly simplistic they're actually insulting. The whole "men are visual creatures period". Its stops discussion, halts discourse, and leaves no alternative possibilities for understanding the behavior and the motives that caused it.

 

Now, if they were to state something along the lines of.. maybe he looks at porn because he is visual stimulated and the reason he is feeling less desire for her is because the gf is not attempting to arouse him visually, but in ways that don't neccessarily cause him to be as aroused...

 

Then maybe there could be communication and a free flow of ideas.

 

These posters communicate with what they've been given. Try not to hold it against them that they are surface level thinkers and there's nothing deeper going on in their heads.

[a4a]

Like I have said before on this subject...... if men are hardwired to have to want and need porn. Then it should be taken into consideration that I myself am hardwired to rip the arm off any person that trespasses into my territory and beat them to death with their own arm. Yet I resist this primative urge daily.......

[Tony T]

"These posters communicate with what they've been given. Try not to hold it against them that they are surface level thinkers and there's nothing deeper going on in their heads."

 

EXACTLY!!! How can you criticize people who are trying to help and who are doing the best they know how. Not everyone on this forum is an Oxford Scholar with a Ph.D. in psychology.

 

At least they gave it a try. Some threads go unanswered for long periods of time. The objective here is to take the advice you feel is right for you...and ignore the rest. Criticizing people who try to help is not productive at all.

[Walk]

I agree Tony. A majority are just trying to help and are sharing their view of the world as they see it.

 

The problem I have with it is that when I read something that implies all women are just objects with a hole. It implies that woman should be blissfully happy that a "man" would bestow upon her the great gift of his penis. And it doesn't matter if he had to watch 17 women spread their legs on a screen in order to get it hard enough to use.. he used it in his gf, so therefore she should be grateful and bow to his all mighty penis. NO WAY.

 

I'm more than a hole, and a man is more than a penis.

 

Actually my problem is that I immediately get pissed as soon as a man implies that women are objects. To my core pissed. I've been fighting my whole life to be seen for my abilities, character, and intellect. And to be degraded to the level of "hole", just pisses me off. And I don't think I'm alone in feeling this way. I think it pisses many women off if a man insists she's only an outter package with a hole. A product of genetics and makeup. I'm more than that, so to simplify a man's view of me down to 'shell with hole'.... immediately causes me to see that man as a moron with no brain. I don't understand why men insist on bludgining us with their supposed logic, when they KNOW its all bluff and defense.

[Outcast]

and the reason he is feeling less desire for her

 

Unfortunately, this belief is at the base of a lot of the problems people have with porn. But it's not true in many, many cases. And in many other cases, the reason a partner is feeling less desire is that there are problems in the relationship which need to be worked on and the resorting to porn is just a symptom rather than being THE problem. However people just think it's about sex, when problems with sex so rarely are.

 

Yes, there are addictions, and that's unfortunate, but it's unfortunate that people can't stop overeating either - food and sex are basic needs and there will always be some people who overindulge.

[Fritz]

I agree Tony. A majority are just trying to help and are sharing their view of the world as they see it.

 

The problem I have with it is that when I read something that implies all women are just objects with a hole. It implies that woman should be blissfully happy that a "man" would bestow upon her the great gift of his penis. And it doesn't matter if he had to watch 17 women spread their legs on a screen in order to get it hard enough to use.. he used it in his gf, so therefore she should be grateful and bow to his all mighty penis. NO WAY.

 

I'm more than a hole, and a man is more than a penis.

 

Actually my problem is that I immediately get pissed as soon as a man implies that women are objects. To my core pissed. I've been fighting my whole life to be seen for my abilities, character, and intellect. And to be degraded to the level of "hole", just pisses me off. And I don't think I'm alone in feeling this way. I think it pisses many women off if a man insists she's only an outter package with a hole. A product of genetics and makeup. I'm more than that, so to simplify a man's view of me down to 'shell with hole'.... immediately causes me to see that man as a moron with no brain. I don't understand why men insist on bludgining us with their supposed logic, when they KNOW its all bluff and defense.

 

Ahh, the porn debate. As timeless as fart from a Taco Bell burrito supreme.

 

Well, at least you said a "man is more than a penis". To be honest in my experience, these days women tend to have the attitude that men are sperm banks and walking wallets. Often the mentality is, "worship me" and that all they need to bring to the relationship is their precious vagina. I'm with you on porn addiction (and I'd bet its a symptom of bigger issues fairly often) but I think some women take it too seriously. Too often, that attitude smacks of controlling your partner's sexuality.

[superconductor]

For the record, I'm not a fan of porn. Never have been. The sight of two (or more) sweaty bodies humping for the camera is, well, a bit silly.

 

With that said...

...The whole "men are visual creatures period"

Well, it happens to be true. We may like it or we may not like it, but it just happens to be reality.

Now, if they were to state something along the lines of.. maybe he looks at porn because he is visual stimulated and the reason he is feeling less desire for her is because the gf is not attempting to arouse him visually, but in ways that don't neccessarily cause him to be as aroused...

 

Then maybe there could be communication and a free flow of ideas.

You're kidding, right? "I look at porn, honey, because you just don't do it for me anymore" is an invitation to a set of flying dishes... or something.

 

Thing about porn is, for all one may like or dislike it, it's entirely free of emotional commitment and all the baggage that comes attached with a relationship.

 

It's also bereft of any communicative depth, which leaves the viewer(s) without anything meaningful after the viewing is over.

 

To be sure, it's the thinking of an adolescent. No argument there. And when porn creates problems in a relationship - that is, when the fella would rather watch a DVD of humping bodies instead of being with a warm, willing, beautiful partner - then there's good reason for frustration and anger.

 

But it's also a two-way street, just like anything else in a relationship. If a man's partner is suddenly full of "not tonight, I have a headache" or "it's too hot" or "it's too cold" or "I just don't feel like it" or any of the endless other excuses to avoid physical intimacy, then she shouldn't be surprised if he resorts to flickering images on a TV or computer screen.

[Galaxy]

I honestly feel some of these women go off the handle when it comes to porn. Sure, in some cases it is so excessive that there is a problem. But many times on here women just are bitching about small "problems". Maybe the reason why their husband WANTS it all the time is because he knows he can't or isn't supposed to have it (forbidden fruit)... maybe if you watched it with him and shoved it in his face more often yourself, he'd get BORED and tire of it. I've never been addicted or that much infatuated with porn maybe because the women I've been with have liked it too and didn't "BAN" it. Mostly just an occasional thing.

Or maybe there are a lot of problems this man is hiding from that he has to use porn (instead of a soap opera for women) as an escape. Stress management. Plus stop living a boring life.

[scrybe74]

I was just bored and reading up on some random postings on LS and have come across numerous "porn" inquiries. Most of these postings are responded to with such lack of insight and crude, snap judgement that I feel takes the credibility and appeal out of this LS overall.

To the jury: Yes, there are a lot of women who are offended by porn. The whole "visual creature" **** is old (and this arguement is also, so I'll just stop now) The problem lies in the insubordinate attitude that has been taken to the issue in general. "JUST DEAL WITH IT...WE AREN'T GOING TO CHANGE" is what the attitude often is in many of the postings (from men and women might I add) Maybe the topic of porn is touchy, and some may argue about its rights within the boundaries of a relationship, but without a compromise there is no relationship. So when your wife is fat she'll just claim "I love chocolate- so deal with it!!!"

And by the way, there ARE times when porn is unacceptable. My bf used to surely abuse this for about a year in our relationship. I am talking everyday and numerous times a day. Before work, at work, after work, the moment I left and returned 30 minutes later (right after having sex). I finally dumped his ass for being such a jackass. Someone like that does not deserve to even BE in a relationship- so selfish. We stayed apart for a while and when I took him back- his attitude has seemed to change. He doesn't use porn anymore. I am not saying he NEVER will and that I would have a serious problem with it if he did, but if he ever abuses it (and me) in that way again??? HIS ASS IS GRASS!

 

 

You sound a lot like the other posters that you are criticizing

[norajane]

Count me among the women who don't give a damn about porn, or how often my guy masturbates. As long as I'm satisfied with our sex life, he can wank all he wants and he can wank to whatever he wants. I don't even ask the questions, and would never consider checking his browser every 15 minutes to see what sites he's been on.

 

I see some people who post that take issue with porn because they take issue with their SO's masturbating in the first place. They take it personally that their guy feels a need to masturbate at all when in a relationship. And others equate masturbating to porn with cheating, which, IMO, is bullsh*t. Porn is nothing like cheating.

 

Of course, some people have legitimate concerns - some guys do get addicted and abuse it, or they prefer it to sex with their ladies. But the definition of abusing it seems to vary quite a bit depending on the individual's view of masturbation and porn in general. Making a man feel like he has to hide it and lie about it just creates relationship issues when a little tolerance of our differences would go a long way.

 

But then, maybe I'm not the best person to speak on the subject. I write erotic stories for my SO, and the camera is rarely far from our bed...we both have laptops full of our porn to look at if we feel the urge. Still, I wouldn't be hurt if he looked at movies or porn sites.

[Blackfrost]

A female friend once said this to me:

 

porn (and prostitution) create pussy devaluation - hence lowering some womens ways of getting what they want from their men.

[Craig]

I was just bored and reading up on some random postings on LS and have come across numerous "porn" inquiries. Most of these postings are responded to with such lack of insight and crude, snap judgement that I feel takes the credibility and appeal out of this LS overall.

To the jury: Yes, there are a lot of women who are offended by porn. The whole "visual creature" **** is old (and this arguement is also, so I'll just stop now) The problem lies in the insubordinate attitude that has been taken to the issue in general. "JUST DEAL WITH IT...WE AREN'T GOING TO CHANGE" is what the attitude often is in many of the postings (from men and women might I add) Maybe the topic of porn is touchy, and some may argue about its rights within the boundaries of a relationship, but without a compromise there is no relationship. So when your wife is fat she'll just claim "I love chocolate- so deal with it!!!"

And by the way, there ARE times when porn is unacceptable. My bf used to surely abuse this for about a year in our relationship. I am talking everyday and numerous times a day. Before work, at work, after work, the moment I left and returned 30 minutes later (right after having sex). I finally dumped his ass for being such a jackass. Someone like that does not deserve to even BE in a relationship- so selfish. We stayed apart for a while and when I took him back- his attitude has seemed to change. He doesn't use porn anymore. I am not saying he NEVER will and that I would have a serious problem with it if he did, but if he ever abuses it (and me) in that way again??? HIS ASS IS GRASS!

The problem isn't porn. The problem is something else in the relationship and/or some people just have problems with addictions. If it wasn't porn it might be shopping, talking on the telephone, watching sports, etc.

[kbah]

Scyrbe: How so?

 

Yes. yes. yes. I do also agree that there are women who are just highly insecure and dismiss any use of porn as "an addiction."

 

I used the words "porn," "addiction," and "my bf" in the same sentence a few times, but I have chosen to change my wording. It was an issue. An abuse. Misuse...whatever. A BIG problem. ALl of my past bf's have masterbated to porn and so did my current one...I had NO problem with it. He would even tell me about the ladies sometimes and what he watched when he...blah blah. No jealousy. No problems. It was when I found HOW much he was doing it.

 

A site popped up on his scrolldown bar...it didn't bother me until I saw numerous other sites...ok but I was still calm. I discovered (through being a HUUUGE creepo by sneaking on his browser) that he had visited at 7:38 am, 2:20 pm, 5:45 pm, 8:35 pm, 10:16 pm, 3:11 am....all in one damn day. This pattern was common at least 5 out of seven days a week. Keep in mind...on top of all these visits we were having sex AT LEAST once a day. This had been going on for at least a couple months. I told him to "please cut back" bc I thought it was waay too much adn it realllly bothered me. He "did" but this was cut down to basically still everyday...just less times. He told me he stopped, but I was way pass belief at that point (and I recently found that he hadnt stopped when he said) but it didnt matter cuz I dumped his ass.

 

Funny how after the break-up porn didnt seem so important anymore!! He has stopped, but may start again someday. Who knows. Who cares. As long as he doesn't abuse it in the way he did months ago. That's all that I feel I am entitled to. I am not trying to CONTROL my bf or what he does...I never have- I am expressing MY needs and morals and if they aren't met or at least compromised with then he can have a three-way with himself, his penis and porn.

[littlepiggy1]

My g/f and I broke up over various issues, a big part being our sex lives and porn. I ended up learning a few things from that experience.

 

In particular, my g/f had asked me to give up looking at porn. She had previously asked me to give up other things (a lot was related to her own insecurities) and porn ended up being merely the latest. But anyway, more on that later.

 

Prior to just breaking up we went to a counselor. We mainly taked about the sex/porn issues and the counselor (who, btw, was a woman and not a fan of porn herself) mentioned a couple things that I thought was quite interesting.

 

First of all, she told us that in her readings of psychology journals, research has established that men form a link between masturbation and porn. This is mainly because men (as teens) tend to look at porn to get off. Over time there is this very strong link between the two.

 

What I found interesting about this was when my g/f told me she didn't want me to look at porn, my first thinking was that she didn't want me to masturbate anymore. I only tended to look at porn if I was feeling horny and wanted to get off. As a result, "no porn" seemed to imply "no masturbation". So when the psychologist mentioned this, it made perfect sense to me.

 

Second, was something she said to my g/f. She said that in order to deal with the issue, first it needed to be determined whether the "competition with porn" was real or imagined. IOW, was I choosing porn over my g/f, or was it a case of my g/f's insecurities.

 

In retrospect, however, it was both. My g/f had insecurities that manifested themselves throughout the relationship. Things that were fine at the beginning of the relationship suddenly because issues as time went on. It did effect our sex life. I started feeling suffocated in the relationship. Porn ended up becoming an issue long after there were many other issues (it started out with a mere bikini calender, then it became about my art and my art books; I'm an artist btw with an interest in fantasy and erotic art; finally, it was about porn). She seemed to think that if I merely gave up certain things that were (in her mind) contributing to her insecurity, that we'd have more sex and she would be happy. Meanwhile, I was unhappy because I was feeling I was giving up things and not asking her to give up anything in return. The end result was the opposite. I didn't want to sleep with her because she became a source of frustration.

 

Something else I noticed when she asked me to give up porn also was a revelation. Prior to "giving up" porn, I didn't think about it much. I'd look at it when I was horny and wanted to masturbate, but that was about it. I honestly did try not to look at it for her. But something about being consience about NOT being able to look at it made me fixate on it that much more. I'd think about it almost every day. I'd get horny at odd times and be frustrated because I wasn't able to do what I used to. I started to feel guilty about wanting to look at it, but I couldn't stop thinking about it. In all honesty, I think *that* could have been the signal of an addiction. Naturally I caved. It's tough to give up a 16 year habit cold turkey. I couldn't do it and I imagine most other guys couldn't either. But now I have a better knowledge of why.

 

In the end, we broke up. It was probably for the best and that's that. But there are a few take-away lessons I have, well, taken away:

 

1) Pretty much every guy looks at porn and masturbates. This is just reality and people need to just face this.

 

2) Insecurity sucks. If you are a female and you don't want your b/f to not look at porn because of that, well, guess what? That ain't going to fix your insecurity and it ain't necessarily going to make him want to have sex with you more. Insecurities need to be dealt with from within, not from external factors.

 

3) I think that porn addiction is real, but I think people need to recognize what is and isn't one. A person who looks at it periodically to get off is probably not addicted. A person who looks at it constantly (i.e. throughout the day), even without masturbating, is probably addicted. If they do it at work or school, then even more so. I think it's also important to recognize that cutting off porn completely can possibly create an addiction where one might not have been previously. That's not healthy either.

 

4) If women want a guy who doesn't look at porn, then find a guy who doesn't look at porn. If men want a girl who is okay with them looking at porn, then find a girl who is okay with them looking at porn. Sometimes you just can't change the other person.

[arniebuteft]

 

Funny how after the break-up porn didnt seem so important anymore!! He has stopped, but may start again someday. Who knows. Who cares. As long as he doesn't abuse it in the way he did months ago.

 

I'm pretty sure he hasn't stopped, he's just hiding it much better. But you're right, if it's not affecting your sex life, if you're happy, and he's happy, then all is well.

[kbah]

I am well aware that he may still be using it, but it is DEFINITELY not in the abusive manner he did before. And that is fine by me. I am not looking to CONTROL what he does...I just want to be respected and heard.

[blind_otter]

I am well aware that he may still be using it, but it is DEFINITELY not in the abusive manner he did before. And that is fine by me. I am not looking to CONTROL what he does...I just want to be respected and heard.

 

If your sex life is fine, how is it not controlling to demand that he not pleasure himself unless you deem it appropriate? I'm just saying.

 

I think women are too dismissive of the fact that men are different from them, have different wants, order their priorities differently, and really do think of the world differently.

[kbah]

He has even admitted to me that his viewing of porn was excessive and abusive. He has an addictive personality and used porn in that manner. I do not constantly tell him NOT to use porn....he chooses not to view it now. He stated on his own terms/time that he can see how it was disrespectful to me and that he had changed his views. He has said that he does not feel it is respectful when you are in a relationship, unless it is used with the partner. These are HIS words...not mine nor my opinion.

 

I feel the use of porn (individually or not) in a relationship is fine as long as the amount is not abusive and the couple is happy. The bottom line is that the amount and conditions of his use were actually hurting the relationship sexually, emotionally, etc for BOTH partners. This continued for a few months until we ended bc I broke it off.

 

Now you tell me that I would be so quick to jump back into it knowing he might repeat the same pattern. He has abstained from porn and it is no problem for either partner...YET. Who knows what will happen.

[Guest]

I have been with my boyfriend for 10 years, his addiction to porn was a nightmare early on in our relationship. We split over it briefly, he was spending hundreds of pounds a month on phoning sex lines as well as viewing porn on the pc. I didn't have a problem with him looking at porn, it was the money! He was spending all this money while I was working 3 jobs! Anyway he saw a counsellor and things were going great for years. Had finally started to trust him again.....now I recently found out he's not using porn but is addicted to drugs. Some people are addicts through and through, it doesn't matter what they use, it hurts everyone around them. Addiction often involves lies and deceit, it's that that damages the relationship. I don't hate him for this but I don't think I can go through all that again!

Not looking for advice, just thought I'd enter into the discussion.