lovehate Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 After 8 years of what I thought was a pretty good marriage with the normal ups and downs, we have an arguement in April that "broke the camels back" . After lots of begging to talk and make things better again he tells me that he thinks he is done with our marriage. So he slept in the other room because he didn't want to cloud his judgement. Now get this we are still sometime having sex only on my part though again he says that he doesn't want to cloud his judgement. Now we have a 7 year old girl that everyone around thought she had the best dad in the world but he is now starting to not do the things with her as before, he thinks that this isn't bothering her or affecting her in anyway. We agreed that while we seperated to find out that this is what he wanted we wouldn't see anyone else and that we would go to counselling. We went to our first session june 7 the night that he moved out. Since then we have been some what on normal terms I have been fixing my issues that were the problem in our marriage because I wanted him to come back and give me a 2nd chance but he continued to say that he wasn't ready to talk yet so I patiently waited like a little puppet. Only to find out last week that he has been talking to a girl that he deals with through work (she lives 6 hours away) since may 13 and june 7 our first session the night that he left me in our house curled up in a fetal position crying to the point of exhaustion he calls her and talks for almost 3 hours. The calls were explosive some days he called her 20 times in one day!!! Anyway, when confronted by this he said that it was none of my concern and that he new how I would react, MAD! He was only talking to her as a friend and that they are helping each other as she is going through the same thing as us. I called her at work and asked her how long they have been talking and she said well you guys are seperated and I don't think I can tell you that, I said well you must know that we are seeing a marriage councellor and we are still trying to make things work out, she was not aware of this. He apologized to both of us but has continued to talk to her and not me. anyway i have so much more to say but i'd like some feedback on this Link to post Share on other sites
Gunny376 Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 This sounds like one for MzP, DGirl, Thor, and LadyJane. Check out their posts on this borad. Link to post Share on other sites
amaysngrace Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Maybe he finds it helpful to talk with her. She wasn't a factor in your bad marriage, at least as he saw it, so don't put too much into the reality that he's seeking her advice now. Maybe he just needs someone to talk to. You said you are working through your issues...does he have any or you mostly to blame for the demise of your marriage? If you are, then I would say to lay off him a bit. Their speaking isn't what made your marriage go south afterall. And if you and your husband are meant to be together, nothing and nobody will come between that. Link to post Share on other sites
Gunny376 Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 At the very least, he's feeding you line, and he's having an emotional affair with the OW, which in my book is the same as a physical one. He's also playing two ends against the middle, one against the other. The righteous thing for the OW to do is to get out of your marriage. Which now that she's been fully informed of the circumstances, she should have already done. Read Lor's post ~ your and her's sounds more a like than not. Link to post Share on other sites
Gunny376 Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Maybe he finds it helpful to talk with her. She wasn't a factor in your bad marriage, at least as he saw it, so don't put too much into the reality that he's seeking her advice now. Maybe he just needs someone to talk to. You said you are working through your issues...does he have any or you mostly to blame for the demise of your marriage? If you are, then I would say to lay off him a bit. Their speaking isn't what made your marriage go south afterall. And if you and your husband are meant to be together, nothing and nobody will come between that. Your perspective always throws me! LOL! Link to post Share on other sites
Lor Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Read Lor's post ~ your and her's sounds more a like than not. Batter up! Okay, Gunny, I'm gonna help someone do what I haven't been able to. Lovehate-- Here's the deal. Get On With Your Life!! Is he cheating emotionally?--you bet. Does he see it? Nope. Will he see it? Nope. Will he listen? Nope. You are talking to a brick wall and every word out of your mouth is pushing him farther and farther away. Do not do what I have done. Do not call. Do not snoop. Do not beg. Do not rage, scream, cry, or holler around him. Do it in the bathroom, in the car, at work, take a walk and go scream at something but do not do it around him. Put on a happy face (or try to) when he's around. Make your voice sound chipper. If you have to email about your daughter, make it to the point and nothing, nada personal. Same with phone calls, text messages, the works. You gotta trust me on this. I have done everything wrong a woman can possibly do in this situation and am now headed for divorce. Check out malemidlifecrisis.com--sounds like the shoe might fit--and don't say he's too young; mine H is only 30. Let me guess, he doesn't know what he wants, needs space and time to think, not sure if you two can ever get past this, seems less interested in things than he did before, he thinks he hasn't changed, doesn't think anyone else thinks he's changed but others can see a difference? You have got to go NC. If you want to save your marriage. She is a thorn in the side of your marriage and you can't make him quit talking to her. He'll do it anyway, no matter what you ask. Yes, they are having an EA, but to him its just friends and no amount of anything you do, right down to throwing things will get it thru his head that its not. And everything you do wrong will only make her look better. Thank your stars she's 6 hours away--that keeps EA from becoming PA. No more sex. Its clouding your judgment. With mine I couldn't tell if he was actually wanting to try again or just in the mood and it was a serious cut to my self-esteem. If he says he wants to try again, do not get your hopes up. Start off extremely slow--go out to eat, go to a movie--then go home alone. Do not start up on the begging, pleading, etc because HE doesn't know what HE wants and may not for a long time. Do NOT let him move back in, not for quite a while. He may seem fine one week and then the next he will drift again and pretty soon you'll find him talking to her again--and it will devistate you. You are going to be put on a roller coaster and it will be the ride from hell. If you listen to this, if you do what I say, you may come out alright. What he does need is space and time, time to miss you and your daughter--but he won't get that if you are waiting to pounce everytime he says hi. Start doing things with your daughter. Do things for yourself. The littlest things to brighten your mood will help. Rent movies together. Focus your energy on yourself and her. It will help eliviate some of the pain. Now is the time for you. Quit worrying about him, stressing about him, getting angry about him. You are not to blame for this, no matter what he tells you or makes you feel. Tell yourself that over and over, as much as it takes. It will get better. Link to post Share on other sites
Lor Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 oh and another thing. Stay neutral at all times, with him and to your daughter. You will get more response out of him if you treat him like a co-worker or friend. yes, you were married to him for 8 years but this guy is a stranger that you don't know anymore. And you can't reason with him or convince him of anything. Don't push the issue and don't make ultimatums. There is not a time limit on this and you may sit here a while. Its up to you to decide if its worth it or not. Do not tell him to "man-up" (hey, Gunny! ) or he will tell you to %$# off in his mind. Everything negative that happens from this point on is another mark against you to him and he's keeping score. It will be so hard for you. It will test you to no end. If you feel the need to scream and holler or get mad, come on here and do it--post a "vent". It will help get it out of your system so you don't do it to him. Personal phone calls are not a good idea--you'll hear his voice and start to ask him why this is happening and that you don't understand. Try to keep it to emails or phone messages but no person to person stuff. Good luck to you and I wish you all the best. LS is a great place to help you find some peace of mind and hopefully you've found it soon enough. Link to post Share on other sites
Milf629 Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 yeah sounds like MY story too! strikingly like MY story. its all the same. save yourself the agony of what the next months will bring and end it. just my opinion. maybe you want to work on it but for me that only brought more heartache and now 6 months later we are FINALLY divorcing! MY initiation of course because he is a coward and would never make the decision himself. Link to post Share on other sites
Lor Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 you can end it or you can wait--there is no fight for it. It depends on how much you love him and how much patience you have. Milf and I have gone thru the same things, the same heartache. It may end in divorce but it may not--time will tell. Do the things I said not to do and you may have a better outcome than we did. Link to post Share on other sites
Author lovehate Posted August 10, 2006 Author Share Posted August 10, 2006 too late to chat tonite, but you guys are awesome and it really sinks it what you're saying Lor but the story has so changed since monday will inform you all tomorrow thanx a bunch! Link to post Share on other sites
amaysngrace Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Bum...I was liking reading this and then you casually say 'see ya tomorrow'. I hope you have a really happy story to tell, cause you like totally blew my mood... ...sleep well Link to post Share on other sites
Gunny376 Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 I beginning to think you're either a cheater, or your not. This EM stuff, I mean come on? Who are you? And why are you in my marriage? I don't recall you're being there when I said "I do!" I don't recall your being their when our children were conceived? I don't recall your being there when they were being born? Who are you, where did you come from ~ and why are you in my business? Why are you even in my life? Did I send you an invitation to come into my life and turn my life inside ~ out, upside down? You need someone to talk to? Talk to me! You've got problems, worries, concerns, issues ~ hey that's why I signed up for a lifetime of this! The good, the bad, and ugly. I was being straight up with you ~ and I thought you were being straight up with me. I was serious when I said I wasn't insterested in having group sex with clowns and dancing bears ~ not my cup of tea. And if that was someting that was that important to you, that's news I could have used before we got married. And, if you like "Eve's" more than me, that's news I could use too! And, no I'm not JR, and your not Sue Ellen, and this ain't Dallas. Turn off the TV, I've got to get up and go to work tomorrow. Link to post Share on other sites
Gunny376 Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Batter up! Okay, Gunny, I'm gonna help someone do what I haven't been able to. And, here comes Lor Ladies and Gentleman stepping up to the plate! WAIT! WAIT! She's putting on the Big Girl Britches! This could get serious! This could be serious! Don't go to the concession stand now! Don't go to the rest room just yet! If you think you can't wait ~ think again! You don't want to miss this one! The pitcher winds up, he throws! Its across the plate! Lor connects! Its a high ball down ceter field! Its going, going, going, its gone! She's taken out the lights! Spraks fly everywhere! Its a tripile homerun! The crowd goes wild! Link to post Share on other sites
Lor Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 And, here comes Lor Ladies and Gentleman stepping up to the plate! WAIT! WAIT! She's putting on the Big Girl Britches! This could get serious! This could be serious! Don't go to the concession stand now! Don't go to the rest room just yet! If you think you can't wait ~ think again! You don't want to miss this one! The pitcher winds up, he throws! Its across the plate! Lor connects! Its a high ball down ceter field! Its going, going, going, its gone! She's taken out the lights! Spraks fly everywhere! Its a tripile homerun! The crowd goes wild! Oh man......... :lmao: :lmao: Gunny you are wonderful!! Link to post Share on other sites
dgiirl Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 lol gunny... Lor's post was spot on. Take your focus off of him and put it back onto you. It's the ONLY way to keep your sanity throughout this whole thing, to rebuild your self esteem, and best chance of attracting him back. You mentioned you two had a huge argument in April. Could you give some details on this? If we understood more of the problems of the _marriage_, and not the problems at the end of the marriage, we might be able to give better advice. Remember, even if this woman is having an EA or a PA, she's not the one to get angry at. It's your husband. Your husband is choosing to do this. Her? (If she continues to interfere,) She's insignificant! A low life who goes after married men. She's selfish and unless she changes her ways and sees the light, it will come back to bite her in the ass. But dont worry about their karma. Focus on you. Put all your energy onto you, and you will see good come to you in totally unexpected ways. Yes, you might want your husband to come back, and he might come back, but he might not. But regardless, good will still come into your life. It might take some time because you need to finish some old chapters, but it will come. Link to post Share on other sites
Lor Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 oh, I remember what sanity used to be .....this will make you go insane if you let it. Dgiirl is so right; the OW is nothing, no one. She has no respect for you and she won't ever give it. If she did, she'd walk away. She is not worth your time or effort or the stress it will add. She's caught up in her own world and your H's and no one else exists to them. They really don't think they are doing anything wrong. You can be angry at her but, honestly, what good will it do except give you some place to focus it? Her grass is greener to him, she's an infatuation. but infatuations fade and with time and your willpower in this, she'll fade too. She's new, you're old. Pretty soon they will run out of things to say and will start to realize and see what the other is really like. Remember, you are not to blame. If Dgiirl, Erika and I can find peace, you can to. It'll take time but it will happen. So chin up! Link to post Share on other sites
Mz. Pixie Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 We agreed that while we seperated to find out that this is what he wanted we wouldn't see anyone else and that we would go to counselling. We went to our first session june 7 the night that he moved out. Since then we have been some what on normal terms I have been fixing my issues that were the problem in our marriage because I wanted him to come back and give me a 2nd chance but he continued to say that he wasn't ready to talk yet so I patiently waited like a little puppet. Only to find out last week that he has been talking to a girl that he deals with through work (she lives 6 hours away) since may 13 and june 7 our first session the night that he left me in our house curled up in a fetal position crying to the point of exhaustion he calls her and talks for almost 3 hours. The calls were explosive some days he called her 20 times in one day!!! Anyway, when confronted by this he said that it was none of my concern and that he new how I would react, MAD! He was only talking to her as a friend and that they are helping each other as she is going through the same thing as us. I called her at work and asked her how long they have been talking and she said well you guys are seperated and I don't think I can tell you that, I said well you must know that we are seeing a marriage councellor and we are still trying to make things work out, she was not aware of this. He apologized to both of us but has continued to talk to her and not me. anyway i have so much more to say but i'd like some feedback on this I'm sorry you find yourself here on this forum. Can you brief us a bit on what issues exactly he said that you were responsible for so I can get a look at the whole picture?? I'd say in almost all cases I've known of the people separating or wanting the separation usually have someone waiting in the wings. It sounds like this is the situation that you are in right now. I'll recommend a couple of things for you. "Love Must be tough" by James Dobson. It will give you a good look at what NOT to do. Lor outlined alot of that stuff in her post to you but the book is excellent. There is also a good website- google Marriage Builders. Marriage counseling will not do any good while he is involved with this other woman. Don't believe what he says either about how she's only a friend etc. That's bull. The fact that he hid it and called her so much betrays those comments. He's putting his relationship with her above your marriage. I guarantee you that he's either slept with her or is trying to. No man calls a woman that much "just to talk". That's pursuing!!! Come on, remember how he called you when you were dating??? All cheaters basically follow the same script and he's following it to the T. They all want to blame the betrayed spouse first- and then it's "I love you but I'm not in love with you" They re write the history of your marriage too "It's been bad for the last 7 years and I'm just now getting out" At the time, they think that what they are saying is original, but it's not. I know all of this because I've been a cheating wife. Not proud of it, but I was so I have a unique perspective on the things they do/say. Doesn't matter if you're a man or a woman. It's the same thing for either sex. They rarely admit to the cheating, and they lie, lie, lie. As far as your daughter goes- and him saying it's not affecting her- well that just shows you the level of selfishness he's got going on right now. It's almost like being addicted to drugs- he's only caring about the "high" he's getting from the affair he's in right now. Post away with questions if you have them. Link to post Share on other sites
Author lovehate Posted August 12, 2006 Author Share Posted August 12, 2006 well here is the rest of the story.. i have been the blame because i was so controlling and that everything that he did supposedly by him always made me unhappy, there was no communication on his part and he felt that my current job wasn't good enough and that i should be working at my trade(which i totally despise) so after all is said and done for like i said before we went to counselling and I continued to go to try and change those bad habits because some of them were making me not such a nice person. i totally feel now that before all my actions i have to think before i speak. if nothing out of this he has made me remember the side of me that's been hid for a long time, sunday past i was on the phone begging and bawling my ass of wanting him to come back and that i would forget all about the other girl but he kept saying that his decisions were made and that was that. i went to work on monday only to get a call from him around 11am telling me that the cops were gonna be called on my mom because she had just called and told him off inside and out(he totally deserved) well i come home right away and he is on the phone with the cops and later the cops go in to moms house and will press charges for harrassment if she calls again. i know it was wrong on moms part but she ahs watched me go thru hell and back in the last 3 months and now she has had it. well since then he has threatened me that he will have removed form this house by the cops if i don't stop locking the door.. the nerve.. he is playing mind gamed i later found out from the cops and that i'm falling for it. another note he wanted our child to spend the night with him last night and she totally refused and he got pissed with me because he says that i have to force whatever it is that he wants her to do..is he for real? ..well she said well can i stay with you tomorrow night and he said no daddy has plans made i want you here tonight...anyway she didn't go but before they ended their phone conversation he told her the next time he wants her down with him she had better not say no and he then said to her now i mean it..he used to be the best father but now all he wants is a little something to try and make him not feel guilty, little does he know that she doesn't want hardly anything to do with him anymore and never speaks about him Link to post Share on other sites
Ladyjane14 Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 He called the cops on your MOTHER because she told him off??? What an a*hole! The guy's committing ADULTERY and hurting her daughter. What's she supposed to do? ....shake his hand and tell him what an upstanding citizen he is??? Well, he's the one who wants to play hardball. What's sauce for the gander is sauce for the goose, right? If it were me, I'd set a PI on his ass and get the confirmation that he's committing adultery. Check the laws in your state, http://divorcenet.com is one such site where you can get a quick overview. DO retain a lawyer though at your earliest convenience, and consider suing your WH for grounds. Make certain you file first though so you can get temporary custody of your daughter. Retain a child psychologist so that he can't get away with slopping over his controlling behavior onto your child anymore. Obviously, he's not overtly concerned with her psychological well being. You need to be able to counter that. If he says or does ANYTHING that you consider to be threatening or abusive... call the cops and get a restaining order. I certainly wouldn't do it if I didn't have a fairly good complaint, mind you. But I wouldn't put up with any abuse whatsoever from this guy. You did what the majority of BS's do. You did a self-inventory and found various mistakes in your behavior during the marriage. Like most BS's you regretted it and felt guilty about it. But your sense of guilt does NOT give him carte blanche to mistreat you and your daughter now or in the future. Link to post Share on other sites
Lor Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 Hey there. Sounds like this is getting bitter and nasty pretty quick. Ask your Mom to stay out of it. If you do decide to work with this dumba**, he may end up back in your life and you don't want bitter feelings between them--albeit too late. Okay, you've learned some of the bad parts about yourself. Focus on that--no more calling, bawling and begging. Truth be told, its getting you absolutely no where. Whether you decide this guy is worth it or not, you do have a child together and you will always have something to do with each other. So start making it civil now. Let him know that he will have x days as visitation, and speak with your daughter about it. Remember not to cut the idiot down to her. She does not need to be drug into the middle of this. Speak with him calmly about her, let him know she is a little girl, not a possession and that if continues to treat her the way he is, you will go for full custody because she doesn't need to be put thru this. Let him know you are willing to work with him on visitation but that he can't demand her whenever he wants. He can't lump her in with you, which is what he's doing. If you can't see this going anywhere or decide you don't want him back, make it easy on yourself right now and go see a lawyer about a divorce. What you two are going thru is not something that will solve itself overnight. You can sit down, shut up and hold on to the nightmare ride from hell if this guy is worth it, or walk away now before it gets too hard on you. And its gonna get worse. He's acting and you're reacting. Link to post Share on other sites
Gunny376 Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 You'se' want I should send Vinnie and tha' Boys around to pay this smart guy a little visit? Link to post Share on other sites
Ladyjane14 Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 If you can't see this going anywhere or decide you don't want him back, make it easy on yourself right now and go see a lawyer about a divorce. I think she ought to see a lawyer anyway, Lor... regardless of whether she hopes to continue on in the marriage or not. Accountablity can be a powerful motivator in breaking up the fantasy aspects of the affair dynamic. I find it difficult to believe this guy is REALLY afraid of her mother. More likely, he's responding to exposure. He's p*ssed off because people are pointing fingers at him and calling him into accountability. It interferes with the mindset that has allowed him to justify his cheating. IOW, the finger-pointers have to be wrong.... so that he can be right. Otherwise, he has to look at the man-in-the-mirror and acknowledge that he's a bad guy. Lovehate can certainly be civil. She can even be nice. But in the end, MR. REALITY don't play (ain't that right, Gunny ). The more holes that are poked into the fantasy bubble, the better. Link to post Share on other sites
Gunny376 Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 But in the end, MR. REALITY don't play (ain't that right, Gunny ). The more holes that are poked into the fantasy bubble, the better. When Mr. Reality walks in the room, I, Bad Bad Lee Roy Brown, and even Vinnie and tha' Boys, stand up, take off our hats and make room for him!!!!!!! Making sure we give him his "prop's"! Given a choice? I rather try and shave a Bobcat with a rusty razor, and then given him an alcohol bath than tangle with Mr. "R"! Mr. Reality? He's one bad mother trucker! He don't play! Link to post Share on other sites
Lor Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 I think she ought to see a lawyer anyway, Lor... regardless of whether she hopes to continue on in the marriage or not. Accountablity can be a powerful motivator in breaking up the fantasy aspects of the affair dynamic. point well taken, for lovehates own piece of mind on what to expect. If you don't want to go to a lawyer, look up the divorce laws in your state. although I don't see that as a factor for him opening his eyes. He's p*ssed off because people are pointing fingers at him and calling him into accountability. It interferes with the mindset that has allowed him to justify his cheating. IOW, the finger-pointers have to be wrong.... so that he can be right. Otherwise, he has to look at the man-in-the-mirror and acknowledge that he's a bad guy. In his mind, there is no justifying his cheating because to him, he isn't cheating, he's talking to a friend. And he's not going to acknowledge anyone as being right because he is the only one who's right and no amount of interference or talking will be able to make him see different. When he looks in the mirror, he doesn't like who he sees, can't figure out what's happening to him and doesn't want to admit there is anything wrong. He will and already is blaming all their problems on her. Lovehate, you are not to blame. You are controlling. Well, you can't control this. You can't change it, you can't fix it. So quit trying. There Is Nothing You Can Do About Him! I can't stress that enough. Once you get that thru your head, you will be more able to handle this. You have to let him go right now, especially if you want him back. If you try and figure it out, it will get you no where and will only make things worse. Link to post Share on other sites
Author lovehate Posted August 12, 2006 Author Share Posted August 12, 2006 this really does help and to nobody's surprise he has seen his lawyer and i see mine on monday to start the process. i never thought that i could actually love someone so much that now i have nothing but hate for him..remember the fuss about the sleepover last night well today my little girl had her soccer play day with a bbq afterwards, anyway he shows up there as nothing were wrong and then decides to help himself with the bbq'ing he heard that she wanted to leave but never spoke a word and has not called to see her at all today or to congratulate her on her soccer medal... oh this is so frustrating...i treated her to a job well done to a 2 hour open swim and we both had subway for supper and she hasn't mentioned him at all..overheard today that he walked this other chick home from the bar last weekend and apparently she has been telling her friends and family that he really is a nice guy and don't understand why i would have asked him to move out..so not the case but this will be the things i will have to listen to for god only knows how long Link to post Share on other sites
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