The Aftermath of Flirting...

[JAM]

Hi all,

 

OK here's the low down on my situation. I have been flirting with a co-worker, also a very good friend for about a year now. I am living with someone and he is married. I know already that he is not the type to have an affair, but I am. Anyway, this back and forth has been going on for awhile, not your everyday garden variety innocent office flirtation though - lots of sexual double entendres and discussions. He has pushed the envelope with me in the past, including a tremendous amount of physical contact: hugging, ass-grabbing, soft intimate touches and massages. I have been basically following his lead from the very beginning, as I am not one to begin a flirtation, especially with a married man who I know would never cheat on his wife.

I have come to an impasse with him as he made a very blatant remark (would you do *this* for me if I asked you to), and I said yes. Now, he was not actually asking me to have sex with him, he says he was trying to find out how far I would actually go in general terms (we were having a discussion about my desire to have sex with someone else). But why make it personal?

A few days passed and he made a comment that forced me to bring up this particular question he posed during the previous conversation. I asked him why, and we had a very productive, yet heated discussion about what his and my motivations are in terms of our flirtatious behaviour. I assured him that I was not going to proposition him - just to make sure he didn't assume that just because I said that I would have sex with him, I was "after" him. THe kicker came at the end of our talk, when he justified the fact that he was flirting with me, because he flirts with everyone. I know this is not true, I'm the only one he flirts with, and I felt that he was not telling me the whole truth. I want to address this further, because I feel like he is hiding the fact that he's attracted to me (not a big deal, I admitted that to him!?) and I find it downright insulting. I know he's attracted, but I sense that he's denying it to fit in with his strong base of moral values. I don't want things to get weird and uncomfortable, and I don't know if another heart to heart is in order, or if I should just chill out and suck it up. It is driving me crazy though and I feel I will not get any peace until this issue is resolved to my liking. What do you all think?

[Touche]

Not sure I understand. How would it be resolved to "your liking?" You want him to admit he wants you and only you?

[whichwayisup]

Leave him alone. You have no right throwing yourself at a married man, especially since you know he's not the cheating type. Respect that!

 

He is flirting with you (and others - You may not just be aware of it) and it's JUST an ego feed. He isn't going to cheat on his wife, nor leave her.

 

And...What about your boyfriend? Where does he fit into the picture here? Reverse the situation - How would you like it if your boyfriend was flirting with a girl like the way you're flirting with this MM? Why are you with your boyfriend, do you love him? How serious is it that you're considering cheating on him?

 

Do not have "another" heart to heart with the MM, it's a waste of your energy. Your focus, love and attention SHOULD be on your boyfriend.

[JAM]

Not sure I understand. How would it be resolved to "your liking?" You want him to admit he wants you and only you?

 

What I mean is that I think that I need some closure on this chapter of our friendship, and I need him to simply tell me the truth, instead of brushing it under the carpet like it I didn't mean that much to him as a friend.

 

Neither of us will ever be involved in a sexual relationship with each other, but I came out of this situation very confused and I think that the truth at least deserves to be said...

[JAM]

Leave him alone. You have no right throwing yourself at a married man, especially since you know he's not the cheating type. Respect that!

 

He is flirting with you (and others

And...What about your boyfriend? Where does he fit into the picture here? Reverse the situation - How would you like it if your boyfriend was flirting with a girl like the way you're flirting with this MM? Why are you with your boyfriend, do you love him? How serious is it that you're considering cheating on him?

 

Do not have "another" heart to heart with the MM, it's a waste of your energy. Your focus, love and attention SHOULD be on your boyfriend.

 

Thank you for your reply, but throwing myself at a married man is inaccurate. I'm speaking more of a flirtation that has grown out of a long term friendship, and got out of hand.

 

My partner has indeed cheated, though he doesn't know that I know this. I've chosen to remain with him even so for various reasons.

[Touche]

What I mean is that I think that I need some closure on this chapter of our friendship, and I need him to simply tell me the truth, instead of brushing it under the carpet like it I didn't mean that much to him as a friend.

 

Neither of us will ever be involved in a sexual relationship with each other, but I came out of this situation very confused and I think that the truth at least deserves to be said...

 

You know, you don't always get "closure" in every situation in life. I'm sure you meant something to him but not enough apparently. I guess he didn't respect you enough to feel like you deserved an explanation. Maybe to you he was just a fun friend to banter with and have fun but to him you were a threat. I don't know.

 

Perhaps he just lost respect for you since you were willing to cross that line or you indicated that you would? I don't know. It doesn't matter though. Let him go. Just forget it. The friendship obviously didn't mean as much to him as it did to you.

[JAM]

You know, you don't always get "closure" in every situation in life. I'm sure you meant something to him but not enough apparently. I guess he didn't respect you enough to feel like you deserved an explanation. Maybe to you he was just a fun friend to banter with and have fun but to him you were a threat. I don't know.

 

Perhaps he just lost respect for you since you were willing to cross that line or you indicated that you would? I don't know. It doesn't matter though. Let him go. Just forget it. The friendship obviously didn't mean as much to him as it did to you.

 

Thank you for your response - I appreciate the advice!

[Touche]

Thank you for your response - I appreciate the advice!

 

You're welcome! It sucks though doesn't it?

[JAM]

You're welcome! It sucks though doesn't it?

 

Yes, it does - we'll always be good friends, and I know that he does respect me (he knew about how I am with the 'wanting an affair' thing long before), but I do think that this is something very scary for him, and not something he's willing to admit readily. It is difficult to balance what you need and what the other person is willing to give!

[norajane]

It is difficult to balance what you need and what the other person is willing to give!

 

Or what he has to give and is capable of giving. And in his case, losing. Like his marriage.

[Touche]

NJ is exactly right. That's why I made the comment about that you probably represent too big a threat to him or more specifically, to his marriage. You just have to respect that and not take this too personally.

[JAM]

Or what he has to give and is capable of giving. And in his case, losing. Like his marriage.

 

Exactly, he has much more to lose - and I wouldn't want to be the one to take all that away from him. A friend must always consider what's best for the other person in the end...

[john2776]

I'm very glad that you are not my work colleage and friend. Friends like you I can do without.

 

You said he would never cheat on his wife, and yet he ass-grabs and gives you soft intimate touches. How do you think his wife would feel about this?

 

Given that you are the type who is willing to have an affair, can't you at least choose a single guy to hook up with rather than ruining someone's marriage?

 

Leave him alone.

[JAM]

I'm very glad that you are not my work colleage and friend. Friends like you I can do without.

 

You said he would never cheat on his wife, and yet he ass-grabs and gives you soft intimate touches. How do you think his wife would feel about this?

 

Given that you are the type who is willing to have an affair, can't you at least choose a single guy to hook up with rather than ruining someone's marriage?

 

Leave him alone.

 

Thank you for your reply, though personal jabs are not necessary here.

[Adunaphel]

I don't like your co-worker one bit from your post.

 

He does not respect his marriage (you don't need to cheat, his way of flirting would be *way* out of line even with people who do not have problems with their SO flirting).

 

It does not sound like he respects you.

 

Sorry, but he reminds me a lot of some guys I know.

 

I might be very wrong, and I really hope I am, but he sounds like the kind of guy who'd flirt heavily with you, play games with your head, make you admit that you'd like to have sex with him, have his ego boost, give you the cold treatment and refer to you as the pretty slut from the office who has the hots for him while boasting with his friends at the pub about the episode.

All of this while considering himself the perfect H who'd never cheat on his wife.

[JAM]

I don't like your co-worker one bit from your post.

 

He does not respect his marriage (you don't need to cheat, his way of flirting would be *way* out of line even with people who do not have problems with their SO flirting).

 

All of this while considering himself the perfect H who'd never cheat on his wife.

 

Thanks for your insight.

These two points are very interesting. The first one I understand to mean that for others (who are not open to relationships outside their primary one), his method of flirting would be over the top and they wouldn't tolerate it.

 

It's sad, but somehow I never considered (previous to this incident) the fact that his is actually disrespecting his marriage by flirting - I always put him in the category of "way too churchy to actually be a slimeball". I always excused (while enjoying it) the behaviours with "Oh he's just got a wacky sense of humour."

 

The last line of your post is very true - he considers himself the definition of morality. Contributor to the community, business owner and good husband. Which doesn't jive with his behaviour. He mentioned to me last week that he and his wife have a good relationship, but no sex, which I already knew (in response to the question "why do you flirt?"). So in my mind he's just as guilty as those who have a real affair.

 

Anyway, no, laughing at me with his buddies at the pub is not his style, and I think that he is truly sorry for his sexually charged question from last week, but denies any responsibility for the flirting itself - that would be morally wrong!

[britchick]

He sounds like an idiot, do you really consider him a friend??

[Adunaphel]

Thanks for your insight.

 

You are very welcome.

 

These two points are very interesting. The first one I understand to mean that for others (who are not open to relationships outside their primary one), his method of flirting would be over the top and they wouldn't tolerate it.

 

There are some people who don't mind their partner flirting a little (for fun, for the ego boost, because it's in their SO's character, because they are not jealous and trust their partner) and are not threatened by it.

Well, I think that even the majority of the non-jealous people would be bothered by this kind of flirting.

 

It's sad, but somehow I never considered (previous to this incident) the fact that his is actually disrespecting his marriage by flirting - I always put him in the category of "way too churchy to actually be a slimeball".

 

Unfortunately there is plenty of host-eating slimeballs.

It would be great if all guys who go to church were good husbands/boyfriends.

 

I always excused (while enjoying it) the behaviours with "Oh he's just got a wacky sense of humour."

 

Sorry. It's more like that he has "slimeball" written over his forehead.

 

The last line of your post is very true - he considers himself the definition of morality.

 

This is almost funny.

 

Contributor to the community, business owner and good husband. Which doesn't jive with his behaviour. He mentioned to me last week that he and his wife have a good relationship, but no sex, which I already knew (in response to the question "why do you flirt?"). So in my mind he's just as guilty as those who have a real affair.

 

If not as guilty (that's a matter of personal opinions), he's still behaving inappropriately and playing the innocent cherub.

 

I am curious about whether you asked him the "why do you flirt?" question and actually got the "W and I do not have sex" as an answer.

If this is the case, screw the "it's just innocent flirting" theory. It might be just flirting, but innocent my ass.

 

Also, I'm wary of anyone who mentions to someone he/she is flirting with that he/she has no sex with his/her partner.

If he genuinely is not looking for an affair, then he's still teasing you, and playing games with you.

 

Anyway, no, laughing at me with his buddies at the pub is not his style, and I think that he is truly sorry for his sexually charged question from last week,

 

I truly hope you are right about these points.

 

but denies any responsibility for the flirting itself - that would be morally wrong!

 

One more reason to be careful: if he feels that he has not responability in the flirting that took place, then he probably holds you entirely responsible for it.

 

Once again, does this man have any respect for you?

 

One question, if you don't mind.

Are you deeply infatuated with this guy, or is it more a matter of pride at this point?

[Adunaphel]

He sounds like an idiot, do you really consider him a friend??

 

Great point.

Britchick is right, he certainly is not a friend.

 

Also, be careful about your reputation. It's just too easy to get a bad reputation in situations like the one you described.

[JAM]

You are very welcome.

 

There are some people who don't mind their partner flirting a little (for fun, for the ego boost, because it's in their SO's character, because they are not jealous and trust their partner) and are not threatened by it.

Well, I think that even the majority of the non-jealous people would be bothered by this kind of flirting.

 

Unfortunately there is plenty of host-eating slimeballs.

It would be great if all guys who go to church were good husbands/boyfriends.

 

Sorry. It's more like that he has "slimeball" written over his forehead.

 

This is almost funny.

 

If not as guilty (that's a matter of personal opinions), he's still behaving inappropriately and playing the innocent cherub.

 

I am curious about whether you asked him the "why do you flirt?" question and actually got the "W and I do not have sex" as an answer.

If this is the case, screw the "it's just innocent flirting" theory. It might be just flirting, but innocent my ass.

 

Also, I'm wary of anyone who mentions to someone he/she is flirting with that he/she has no sex with his/her partner.

If he genuinely is not looking for an affair, then he's still teasing you, and playing games with you.

 

I truly hope you are right about these points.

 

One more reason to be careful: if he feels that he has not responability in the flirting that took place, then he probably holds you entirely responsible for it.

 

Once again, does this man have any respect for you?

 

One question, if you don't mind.

Are you deeply infatuated with this guy, or is it more a matter of pride at this point?

 

I really twigged on the innocent cherub line - that's very much the read I'm getting off him. He's only been with one person - his wife, and I think that behaving this way is his moronic way of experiencing things he missed out on. Angelic is the way I would describe his expression when I asked him the "why do you flirt' question.

 

His answer was exactly "well, I uh, OK don't spread this around but my wife and I have a really good relationship, but we don't have sex." (cue the embarrassed look) He forgets that I called him on this behaviour a few weeks ago when he was dissing a friend of his that was flirting, and he said then as well "Well, I flirt becasue I'm sexually frustrated."

 

If this guy were actually to have his behaviour reciprocated in kind, he would go running off into the hills as fast as you can imagine. He likes to push the envelope with me as far as he can go, but he can't take it.

 

Taking responsibility is not his strong suit, that's for sure. The line that started this discussion we had was (he was talking on the phone) "That was my wife, you remember....my wife??" (accusatory tone) And I quickly reminded him that he was the one that asked me if I would engage in sexual acts with him, and it went from there.

 

As for your question about feelings, I can admit to being mired in a lust puddle for the past three weeks - based in fantasy and not in reality though. That's quickly seeping away - I'm currently paying a whole lot less attention to him this week, mostly so I won't broach the subject again at this point, and just simply because I don't care to hang on his every word anymore.

It is a matter of pride as well, I'd like to think that he doesn't think I'm an ugly toadie and just some random chick he's getting his jollies off of. Taking responsiblity is what I expected him to do, and boy was I wrong!

[Guest]

Thanks JAM, for sharing your story. I found it quite interesting and helpful as I am in sort of a similar situation, albeit, the flirty behavior certainly has not gone as far as in your situation - occasional sexual innuendo, and the only touching is casual. The guy is also one to "never cheat on his wife." I have been trying to figure out if my gut instinct - that this is actually FLIRTING vs very good friend behavior - is right. Your story has helped me because I think "no sex with my wife" is an issue for my situation, also, though it has not been explicitly stated.

 

Mostly I just wanted to say that I admire you for sharing your story and being honest with your thoughts and feelings. I get weary of the judgement posts of "Quit it now, you guilty slut" and etc. Sometimes difficult situations arise that make people do and think things that they need help to work through. I hope that is what can happen on sites such as this.

[JAM]

Thanks JAM, for sharing your story. I found it quite interesting and helpful as I am in sort of a similar situation, albeit, the flirty behavior certainly has not gone as far as in your situation - occasional sexual innuendo, and the only touching is casual. The guy is also one to "never cheat on his wife." I have been trying to figure out if my gut instinct - that this is actually FLIRTING vs very good friend behavior - is right. Your story has helped me because I think "no sex with my wife" is an issue for my situation, also, though it has not been explicitly stated.

 

Mostly I just wanted to say that I admire you for sharing your story and being honest with your thoughts and feelings. I get weary of the judgement posts of "Quit it now, you guilty slut" and etc. Sometimes difficult situations arise that make people do and think things that they need help to work through. I hope that is what can happen on sites such as this.

 

Yeah I love those guilty slut comments - I've never posted before, so I had no idea how vehement people can be - there's a difference between trying to work through a problem in a mature and respectful way and slutty behaviour.

 

Thank you for your compliments, I am surprised at how lovely the folks are here too!

 

As for the flirtations, it's very difficult to decipher what the real deal is and to sort out all the feelings involved. They can range from frustration to lust, anger to elation in a very short period of time. Even harder to figure out, is how the rules apply to individual 'flirtee'. I find when I explain my story to those who are familiar with this guy, they always say "oh yeah, that sounds like that behaviour fits him." But you have to go through much explanation about the person's character (with those who don't know him) to be able to put the pieces of the puzzle together. And the most frustrating part, I've found, is that you still don't get all the pieces even through direct conversation. Throw in variables like evasiveness, poor communication skills, fear, and dishonesty and it becomes a mess that need not be.

For me, I had the gut instinct to discuss this months ago when the alarm bells started going off, but I didn't. Why? Self preservation. I enjoyed the flirtation and I didn't want him to start getting all weird on me or reject what I was saying etc. Every time he'd say something telling like "My wife asked me if I would date you if I were single. I had to lie and say no." (this was in front of another co-worker), I would think 'oh, there's something stinky in Denmark', but I let it continue.

If you'd like to discuss your situation further, please let me know.

[britchick]

Flirting does not relieve sexual frustration, it makes it worse! He wants to get in your pants and then he'll probably punish you for leading him astray. If he doesn't have sex with his wife he should sort out the problem with her or pay for it. Problem is he probably thinks he is above this, so is finding a way to do it and blame someone else. Keep away from him for goodness sake he sounds like a complete hypocrite.