So we talked at length last night about sex and our relationship....

[marriedwithtwo]

I’ve posted a few times how I’m a bit frustrated with my wife’s libido. Both for her sake and mine, I would love to spice things up but she seems totally disinterested. There was concern maybe it was something bigger than just libido driving it, so I decided we needed a talk.

 

Last night we had a long talk about things. The conversation was about an hour, and in the end was productive. Basically I need to stop being so analytical about our relationship and let her just be in a “funk” sometimes. In addition, I need to stop “relying” on her for my happiness. By that I mean her level of happiness is not always my fault or my problem, and I need to stop internalizing and feeling bad just because she’s not happy.

 

This last point was a bit difficult because I am normally a very happy person. Rarely am I unhappy or depressed on my own, but rather mostly I am unhappy when she is.

 

So on to the sex part. I was very careful to tell her I really didn’t want to bring it up again (she pressed it and asked if it was about sex), because I was concerned she would be feeling that “here comes the sex talk again”. I expressed to her I like sex with her, but would really like to have some exploration, fun and variety, instead of always at 10pm, with the lights off, with the same routine, same positions, etc. She asked me to describe what “exploration” and things I wanted to do. So I went on to describe about 10 things before we decided it was late and we were tired. She did not promise anything, but it was nice for me to tell her clearly what I would like. I’ll post separately in the sex forum what kinds of things I told her.

 

In the end, the answer is: She is not unhappy about our relationship, things are good the way they are. She is happy with the amount and type of sex we have, her drive is just lower and “less creative”. Generally speaking, there is nothing more that she feels she needs from me. There is no big problem or issue going on in our relationship.

 

I told her I was very sexually frustrated. But I also explained to her that I was trying for sex not to be such a focus for me, but it was tough because for me that is a key part of feeling loved and having a fulfilled relationship.

 

Thanks for listening, just needed to get my thoughts shared somewhere, I don’t have a friend I can share this kind of stuff with.

[superconductor]

Many women seem to have some sort of mental block when it comes to sex, especially after marriage.

 

They don't seem to understand that sexual intimacy for a man is equated with love, respect, caring and compassion.

 

Consistent rejection of a man's sexual advances essentially says that she's not interested in him anymore, doesn't like him, doesn't love him, doesn't care for him, doesn't respect him.

 

That doesn't mean, of course, that a woman has to just lie back, spread her legs and let him have at it when she is feeling ill or something, but she does need to understand that perpetual rejection of her husband hurts.

 

Pain, after all, is not a gender issue.

 

One of the things that may be a concern is the fact that she didn't "promise anything." That could be interpreted in one of two ways:

1. She's willing to discuss the issue again, but won't make any changes on her own; or,
   
2. It's her way of delaying any sort of change on her part, and when you bring it up again she'll roll her eyes and criticize you for "always wanting to talk about sex."
   

Good luck to you.

[Hard2Think]

Check this post .. it's just like your situation - except this guy is a bit more disgusted ..

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t83965/?highlight=cranston

[Outcast]

They don't seem to understand that sexual intimacy for a man is equated with love, respect, caring and compassion.

 

My dear fellows, you are exactly correct. And you know why this is? Precisely because society has dictated that men suppress their emotions. Because too many men still believe (you'll see it on LS) that to express emotions like longing for love, respect, and caring is 'wussy' and 'feminine' and therefore they suck up all their feelings and pretend they're not there. So what do you expect but that women grow up buying into this BS too?

 

Do you know how many ladies I've had offline discussions with who didn't really realize how tender men's hearts actually can be? Do you not realize that the whole 'macho male sex fiend' image that is THE image of male in society mitigates against women thinking that sex has any meaning at all to men? In fact the very fact that men keep insisting they can have sex even when they don't care for the women tells women that sex is meaningless to men.

 

Now, how can you expect a woman to enthusiastically embrace an activity which, she has been given to understand her whole life, is mainly a biological function for men. How do you expect women to not feel 'used' in so many cases when they know the men in their lives have probably had one-night stands claiming the sex 'meant nothing'?

 

There's a dichotomy there, boys.

 

So if you want your women to truly believe that sex means love and care to you, you're going to have to do a very good job of explaining how you on one hand can claim to easily be able to have 'sex with no strings' and on the other hand feel unloved if you don't get sex. Cause you gotta see the two do not jibe.

 

Consistent rejection of a man's sexual advances essentially says that she's not interested in him anymore, doesn't like him, doesn't love him, doesn't care for him, doesn't respect him.

 

Not in the least. Usually it means that she feels as though she's not received enough cuddling, foreplay, assurances of love and desirablility during the day and that the man is horny and she's considered to be the handiest receptacle. It isn't about rejecting the men at all. It's about not wanting to be used.

[StayClose]

This is not a contradiction. To men, sex is emotional validation of our value as men. When a woman wants us, that's proof that we're valued. Even if it's a woman we just met 30 minute earlier, it still means we're disireable and valued.

 

When a man is repeatedly rejected, his self esteme takes a beating. There've been a number of men from sexless marraiges who've posted here that once they started having an affair that they felt valued for the first time in years. You can say that they should be getting validation from their wives, and they would agree. But their wives are unwilling to do that.

[norajane]

Great post, Outcast!

 

StayClose, you need to re-read Outcast's post. What you're saying is all about men and how men feel, with a disregard for the very real, actual effect on women. Outcast is explaining why a woman interprets a man's sexual needs differently from the way men do.

[portableversion]

yeah, a woman is really going to want to have sex with her husband knowing that he wanks off to pixels of eighteen year old bleached siliconed women 7 days out of the week.

[portableversion]

This is not a contradiction. To men, sex is emotional validation of our value as men. When a woman wants us, that's proof that we're valued. Even if it's a woman we just met 30 minute earlier, it still means we're disireable and valued.

 

When a man is repeatedly rejected, his self esteme takes a beating. There've been a number of men from sexless marraiges who've posted here that once they started having an affair that they felt valued for the first time in years. You can say that they should be getting validation from their wives, and they would agree. But their wives are unwilling to do that.

 

so that's why men go to hookers...they don't reject them, and make men feel 'validated' and 'desirable'.

[StayClose]

I wouldn't generalize like that. But yes, some men who are consitently rejected by their wives and feel unvalued and unappreciated eventially go to hookers.

[stoopid_guy]

yeah, a woman is really going to want to have sex with her husband knowing that he wanks off to pixels of eighteen year old bleached siliconed women 7 days out of the week.

Guess what? He was doing that before you met. The only difference between now and then is that now he's lying next to a beautiful, sexy woman every night, which makes him even hornier, and more frustrated because she's never in the mood, so he wanks off even more.

 

He could probably ignore her, but the idiot seems to think he's got a chance, so he spends much time rubbing her back, saying sweet nothings, anything he can think of to convince he loves her. Eventually, he will realize that she's getting what she wants, so why should she care what he wants? Then he'll either leave her (if he's smart) or just stick around out of inertia or for the kids (if he's stoopid.)

[Mz. Pixie]

Guess what? He was doing that before you met. The only difference between now and then is that now he's lying next to a beautiful, sexy woman every night, which makes him even hornier, and more frustrated because she's never in the mood, so he wanks off even more.

 

He could probably ignore her, but the idiot seems to think he's got a chance, so he spends much time rubbing her back, saying sweet nothings, anything he can think of to convince he loves her. Eventually, he will realize that she's getting what she wants, so why should she care what he wants? Then he'll either leave her (if he's smart) or just stick around out of inertia or for the kids (if he's stoopid.)

 

I agree with the first part completely. Yet I do agree that porn is a problem in some marriages. If the porn is interfering with how much the man wants to ML to his wife, then it's a problem. There are many men who would rather wank off to porn that be with their wives. Some of the wives have posted here.

 

So, Stoopid- you're thinking that this is only a man problem?? That women can't possibly want sex more than their husbands??? Well it does actually happen.

 

The issue is that couples have to put the other first. That means, if I'm tired but yet my husband isn't feeling well then I will put my feelings aside and take care of him. Why? Because he would do the same for me.

 

The problem is that you're sitting there saying that you're only rubbing her back etc so see if he can get lucky- not because it's something she enjoys. With that kind of attitude about it, don't you think she can see through that?? You have to be genuine about it or she will read "He's only doing this to get sex- not because he loves me"

 

That being said, yeah, women should have sex sometimes just for their husband's sake. Usually I'm hornier than my husband- and I want him everyday but last night I was really tired. He knew it and kind of pulled away- but I didn't want to reject him so I pounced on him and we ML. Just for him but of course I didn't roll my eyes and pout about it and say "Get it over with" He felt like a king when I got finished because I did all the work!

 

It's a mutual give and take. If I thought for one minute though he only cooked me supper last night because he wanted to "get some" then I would be pissy about it. But, that's not our marriage.

 

I have been there though- in my prior marriage. So, I know what you're talking about. What I didn't know then was that someone has to be the hero in the relationship and put the relationship above themselves. Then, more than likely, that person will begin to see changes in the other person. Not always- because it's not perfect- but sometimes.

[a4a]

So, Stoopid- you're thinking that this is only a man problem?? That women can't possibly want sex more than their husbands??? Well it does actually happen.

 

YES IT DOES HAPPEN!

 

The problem is that you're sitting there saying that you're only rubbing her back etc so see if he can get lucky- not because it's something she enjoys. With that kind of attitude about it, don't you think she can see through that?? You have to be genuine about it or she will read "He's only doing this to get sex- not because he loves me"

 

VERY TRUE....... JUST LIKE WHEN WOMEN GIVE A START TO FINISH BJ. IT IS NOT FOR THE WOMAN

 

That being said, yeah, women should have sex sometimes just for their husband's sake. .

 

YEP THEY DO..... IT IS CALLED A BJ .

[stoopid_guy]

I agree with the first part completely. Yet I do agree that porn is a problem in some marriages. If the porn is interfering with how much the man wants to ML to his wife, then it's a problem. There are many men who would rather wank off to porn that be with their wives. Some of the wives have posted here.

 

So, Stoopid- you're thinking that this is only a man problem?? That women can't possibly want sex more than their husbands??? Well it does actually happen.

 

Agree. I just wanted to point out that with porn, it's sometimes the symptom, not the problem. (Perhaps not as tactfully as I could have.)

 

The issue is that couples have to put the other first. That means, if I'm tired but yet my husband isn't feeling well then I will put my feelings aside and take care of him. Why? Because he would do the same for me.

 

The problem is that you're sitting there saying that you're only rubbing her back etc so see if he can get lucky- not because it's something she enjoys. With that kind of attitude about it, don't you think she can see through that?? You have to be genuine about it or she will read "He's only doing this to get sex- not because he loves me"

 

That being said, yeah, women should have sex sometimes just for their husband's sake. Usually I'm hornier than my husband- and I want him everyday but last night I was really tired. He knew it and kind of pulled away- but I didn't want to reject him so I pounced on him and we ML. Just for him but of course I didn't roll my eyes and pout about it and say "Get it over with" He felt like a king when I got finished because I did all the work!

 

It's a mutual give and take. If I thought for one minute though he only cooked me supper last night because he wanted to "get some" then I would be pissy about it. But, that's not our marriage.

And I agree there too. Making love is a display of love and affection. Some people (male and female) feel that it's important, some don't. The problems arise when one of those marries the other. If a person who thinks it's important isn't getting it, they might try even harder to win the other's love. If that doesn't work, major frustration is going to set in after a while.

 

And I never said he was doing those things to get sex, I was saying he was trying to convince her that he loves her and get her to love him.

[norajane]

Making love is a display of love and affection. Some people (male and female) feel that it's important, some don't. The problems arise when one of those marries the other.

 

Help me understand why those people marry each other. Were there really absolutely no signs of their different views on the importance of sex as an expression of love and affection BEFORE they got married? Are there really no signs of different sex drives before marriage? I find it really hard to believe that's the case.

[superconductor]

Help me understand why those people marry each other. Were there really absolutely no signs of their different views on the importance of sex as an expression of love and affection BEFORE they got married? Are there really no signs of different sex drives before marriage? I find it really hard to believe that's the case.

Marriage changes people. Sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse.

 

I don't know, personally, of one single couple that has their sex life improve once the vows are done.

 

Not one.

 

Mostly - but not exclusively - the woman withdraws from sex, and the man interprets this as the old, "I gotcha, now I don't have to put out!" syndrome.

 

Whether it's true or not is relatively immaterial. The point is that as the sex decreases, his interest in her will wane. In short, no sex = no cuddling, no loving words, no surprise gifts, no weekends away, no flowers, etc.

 

It's a chicken and egg scenario, to be sure. But in every case that I know of - every single one, without exception - the male will continue to do all those special little things that women supposedly say they want, and will still get rejected sexually.

 

So then the guy withdraws, resentment builds and the cycle continues.

 

I hasten to add that it's not always the woman who is the first to withdraw sexually. Sometimes, when the guy is putting in 14 to 16 hour days to support the family, he's just too friggin tired.

[stoopid_guy]

Help me understand why those people marry each other. Were there really absolutely no signs of their different views on the importance of sex as an expression of love and affection BEFORE they got married? Are there really no signs of different sex drives before marriage? I find it really hard to believe that's the case.

Simple; they're stoopid and in love...

[Hard2Think]

I'd say you hit the nail on the head. This has been my experience. That and sex is seen as a "favor" of sorts - or even worse, a reward which then serves as punishment by withdrawal.

 

Marriage changes people. Sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse.

 

I don't know, personally, of one single couple that has their sex life improve once the vows are done.

 

Not one.

 

Mostly - but not exclusively - the woman withdraws from sex, and the man interprets this as the old, "I gotcha, now I don't have to put out!" syndrome.

 

Whether it's true or not is relatively immaterial. The point is that as the sex decreases, his interest in her will wane. In short, no sex = no cuddling, no loving words, no surprise gifts, no weekends away, no flowers, etc.

 

It's a chicken and egg scenario, to be sure. But in every case that I know of - every single one, without exception - the male will continue to do all those special little things that women supposedly say they want, and will still get rejected sexually.

 

So then the guy withdraws, resentment builds and the cycle continues.

 

I hasten to add that it's not always the woman who is the first to withdraw sexually. Sometimes, when the guy is putting in 14 to 16 hour days to support the family, he's just too friggin tired.

[Mz. Pixie]

I don't know, personally, of one single couple that has their sex life improve once the vows are done.

 

And I personally don't know of a single woman (myself excluded) who is treated by her husband after marriage the way she was before.

 

And as a side note- when the guy works too many hours it's okay for the man to be too tired to put out but not the woman??

 

That's kind of a double standard dontcha think?

[superconductor]

And I personally don't know of a single woman (myself excluded) who is treated by her husband after marriage the way she was before.

Exactly. One tends to get out of a relationship what one puts into it.

And as a side note- when the guy works too many hours it's okay for the man to be too tired to put out but not the woman??

 

That's kind of a double standard dontcha think?

No, not at all. It works both ways, always has.