After 10yrs she left because she don't love me anymore.

[Lor]

Yes, tell her that she's right and you agree with her. Tell her that you don't want to be in a marriage that lacks intimacy either, or with a woman who is not happy being with you. Tell her that, since she's not interested in working on your marriage, she's right to leave so you can both start moving on with your lives.

 

The ring, I don't know. Take it off if you can bring yourself to do that at this point.

 

 

I would suggest only telling her this if this is the way you feel. Check out UKsurfers postings; his situation is similar to yours in his wife being in the "fog". Along the same lines, check out malemidlifecrisis.com--it can give you some insight on her IF that is what she's going thru.

 

Your ring? If you want to wear it, wear it--you're not divorced. You'll know when its time. The ring she has? Yep, you have the right to ask for it back, but not now...if you want her to feel comfortable and try to work thru her issues, making demands is not going to work. Demanding it back signifies that there is no chance and you are not going to try either.

 

Give her some time and space, let her adjust. Spend this time with your son and work on trying to figure out why you missed the signs she was giving. This is not about you per say but it is--there are things that a man can change if he wants to better his love attitude, and this will benefit you in this relationship or future ones.

[dgiirl]

Basically, I managed to convince myself that it was what I wanted. And I think that was the thing that hurt the most. I had given up what I truly wanted and instead stayed with my now XW, and in return, I got tossed aside.

 

Isnt that the extra salt in the wounds? I realized this too. That I had sacrificed SOOO much for this relationship, willingly. But then having been told that all I did was take and take and all he did was give and give, that hurt! I accepted certain things because other's told me "That's how guys are, it doesnt mean he doesnt love you". Then I get tossed aside and now I'm left with the feeling that yah, it DID mean he didnt love me, and I didnt act on it! I've never been a high maintenance girl, but after being burned like this, I think these girls might have a good idea. Atleast they're getting romanced and having fun for a little while.

[Lor]

I've been in your wifes shoes to an extent. What happened right after your son was born? Did you step up to the plate or did you let her deal with everything by herself? That can cause a lot of resentment, especially with ppd and if she internalizes things, she's built it up to where she can't deal with it anymore. she looks at herself and sees someone who's grown up in 10 years and sees you as someone who hasn't changed. why are you trying to convince her she doesn't need the meds? Its not your call. She's struggling with trying to understand where her life is and how it got that way and compounding the problem by going up and down with her meds? Not smart and not healthy.

 

Sounds like she's been trying to make herself happy and what she's doing isn't working. When she decided to change careers, did you talk about why she wanted to or did you only discuss the financial end of it? Did you support her fully or only half listen?

 

I'm not meaning to come down on you but you need to open your eyes. Some men don't think they ever need to change and adapt--"I was this way when you met me", "you knew what I was like" so on. Times change, people need to change. When you met life was wonderful, you were younger, able to go out, be around each other. Then finances start to rear their ugly head. Next thing, you add a child to the mix, more finances, and all the trials that come with raising a child. If the woman feels alone, she will start to resent the man who is still living his life like nothing has changed, this will affect intimacy and closeness because she feels betrayed. She still brings things up which means she is not over them and she doesn't believe you when you apologize. It took my H 5 years before I heard the sincerity in his voice when he apologized again. It was then that I was able to forgive. It was wrong to hold onto it for that long but he betrayed me and it built into a resentment that was out of control.

[MattN]

I've been in your wifes shoes to an extent. What happened right after your son was born? Did you step up to the plate or did you let her deal with everything by herself? That can cause a lot of resentment, especially with ppd and if she internalizes things, she's built it up to where she can't deal with it anymore. she looks at herself and sees someone who's grown up in 10 years and sees you as someone who hasn't changed. why are you trying to convince her she doesn't need the meds? Its not your call. She's struggling with trying to understand where her life is and how it got that way and compounding the problem by going up and down with her meds? Not smart and not healthy.

 

Sounds like she's been trying to make herself happy and what she's doing isn't working. When she decided to change careers, did you talk about why she wanted to or did you only discuss the financial end of it? Did you support her fully or only half listen?

 

I'm not meaning to come down on you but you need to open your eyes. Some men don't think they ever need to change and adapt--"I was this way when you met me", "you knew what I was like" so on. Times change, people need to change. When you met life was wonderful, you were younger, able to go out, be around each other. Then finances start to rear their ugly head. Next thing, you add a child to the mix, more finances, and all the trials that come with raising a child. If the woman feels alone, she will start to resent the man who is still living his life like nothing has changed, this will affect intimacy and closeness because she feels betrayed. She still brings things up which means she is not over them and she doesn't believe you when you apologize. It took my H 5 years before I heard the sincerity in his voice when he apologized again. It was then that I was able to forgive. It was wrong to hold onto it for that long but he betrayed me and it built into a resentment that was out of control.

 

 

Yes I'm sure she does have some resentment towards me for this. I have been thinking about that also I do work 11 hrs a day and I know she would get on me about spending time with our son but its not like I didn't spend any time with him and her I guess if she had to answer that question she would say I didn't completely step up to the plate. I bet this does have a lot to do with this looking back on her complaints to me and others. "I thought he would change after the baby etc etc" but I also feel this takes communication also and a part of me feels shes too far gone and resents me too much to ever come back. I think she may have even made a comment about me just not getting it until she leaves and I guess maybe she is sorta right I could have done more to help her. Some of this I should have figured out on my own and I see that now ut unfortunatly too late.

[MattN]

I never really tried pushing her off her meds I only tried to get her to cut back on them some because since she started taking them she was always always tired and never wanted to do much. I dunno I don't feel I really pressured her that much about it just talked with her about it.

 

I feel I supported her fully on her school decision and I did discuss with her why because she was un happy where she was and she felt like she wasn't going anywhere and she wanted more then just a factory job.

[Lor]

On her meds, what she needs to do is think about changing them if they are causing her to be tired, etc. The meds shouldn't make you feel any different day to day other than being capable of handling things.

 

Sorry if sounds like I jumped on you--didn't mean it that way. Sometimes a woman can communicate with a man till she's blue in the face and still feel like she's talking to a wall. Actions are the best clue and if she did try and didn't see any results, she'd start to shut off. On spending time with your son, you said you would spend time with him and her. Maybe she was wanting you to spend the time with him to help bond, and give her a little breathing room? As an example--my H would say he spent time with me and the kids--which was all of us in a room watching TV, him in his chair, me in mine, usually with 2 kids on my lap. Ooh ah--quality time.

 

If she said that you wouldn't open your eyes till she left, then that's what happened. Sometimes that's what it takes. And you're right; sometimes its too late by that point but its never too late to step up to the plate.

 

That's a strong point in your favor that you discussed her career change with her to see if there was more to it than that. Men do read the signs sometimes!

[Guest]

You know forget this mess, if someone has told you they don't want to be with you what is the point of fighting for them? Pick yourself up and move on and let her know it. Don't be angry about it because believe it or not you have a much better life awaiting you without her. I have never known one person who was told by someone they were not wanted and didn't move on to something much better.

 

I sense she moved back with her mom so she can pretend she's in the 8th grade again and have her mom do all the cooking and stuff while she goes to school. What a selfish person she is to only think of herself and her "intimacy problem" when she has a 5 yr. old's life she should be putting ahead of her own. No let her go now and wish her the best. The more you keep trying to please her and play stupid games to get her back the more you keep yourself in a hopeless situation.

[Mz. Pixie]

Dang, I remember that. Had something similar happen. It was Halloween, just 2 weeks after we separated, and my daughter, 3 at the time, begging me to get in the car and come home. It broke my heart to hear my daughter begging and pleading with me like that and my heartless XW not caring. I couldn't do anything or say anything, just try to explain to a 3 year old child that I couldn't. I have never, and will never, forgive my XW for that one moment.

 

 

Damn, DD- good to see you bro! I have missed ya! I certainly hope you'll visit more often. We need you guys around here to give these other guys hope and information.

 

Gunny- meet DD if you haven't already- this is who you remind me of in ways!!! That's high compliments by the way.

 

Now, on to you Matt-

 

Ladyjane has good info for ya- listen to it.

 

On the other side of the coin- your wife surely sounds to me like she's having an affair. I know you think she isn't or you think you haven't seen signs that she is. But, women do not usually up and leave their partners without someone else waiting in the wings.

 

Do a search of posts on this board- and come back and tally for me exactly how many men have posted on this forum- as well as the marriage/infidelity section- who have had wives leave them- have not had the wives be involved in some type of affair??

 

Very damn few I will tell ya.

 

You don't want to believe it?? I completely understand. Yet, when I was cheating on my exhusband- I did and said pretty much all the same things she has.

 

I suggest a little investigation on your part. Cell phone records is a good place to start- I know you said yours were turned off but perhaps she has a new one?? What about a home computer you could check to see where she has been?? Does she have a secret email account??

 

If all else fails, borrow a car and follow her one night when she goes out. You may get an answer to your question here.

[MattN]

Well I'm not completely blind and naive so its not that I don't believe she would cheat on me really but I haven't seen anything suspicious. We haven't had the cell phones for awhile and when we did I never really checked them. She doesn't really do much so there wasn't many chances for me to follow her around and since she is at her parents now thats not really an option for me. She could have a cell phone but if so its very well hidden and a lot of it is very well hidden but thats not to say it isnt happening but my instinct tells me this is more about her happiness.

 

Like I said I could be wrong and the reality is even if she is seeing someone it doesn't matter because the end result is the same and shes gone. A lot of what she says has been obviously from me pressuring her to talk and explain why things are the way they are but what do you say to someone when you simply don't have feelings for them and now that she is gone why keep hiding it from everyone? I guess if its true it will EVENTUALLY come out I mean you can't hide someone forever so I really have no choice but to wait and see..

[JamesM]

Matt, looking at all of your answers, I do not see much that contributed to this. However, I do see that you work(ed) 11 hour days. That is alot even if you spend quality time at the end of the day. This is not meant to put the guilt on you.

 

You mention Paxil. As you probably know this is a libido killer. And if she still has depression, this will diminish feelings for you as it also diminishes feelings of love for herself.

 

Has she had thyroid problems prior, during, or after births? I sound like a broken record, but my sitch was similar to yours in that she had no interest in sex or intimacy, she was on antidepressants, and in pain. Through research, a medicine change for her thyroid changed our lives...mainly hers. So, if she has had low thyroid levels, and even if they are normal, it could contribute to the problem. And yes, my wife blamed her lack of libido on everything else including me. She also lost feelings for me and felt that she didn't love me. Just another angle to consider.

 

The only possible angles from your story that I see...and there may be more...depression, your many hours of work, her need for extra attention, her feelings of failure at succeeding at her DH dream, and the feeling that life is leaving her behind. But as I learned, none of these may be the real reason.

 

My "best" suggestion is research and research...never give up until it is over for better or worse. And the fact that you are here says to me that you are doing that already. Hang in there...many of us have been fortunate to have our lives and marriages back better than before.

[Gunny376]

But your wife is giving you some lame excuses!!!

 

Maybe even after all these years ~ I'm still naive, but marriage to me is a "hilt to the bone" type proposisition. "In for a penny, in for a pound." You've got too many people going into it withiout serious contemplation of the consequences, and what is required. And, then just up and walk out of it, like it was cool, and no big deal.

 

What happen to obligation, committment, integrity, responsibility.

 

Hate to be the one to break it to you Matt, but your wife's got FBS,

 

Flakey Broad Syndrone!

 

Dump her and go find you someone who's got their head and azz wired together, who knows what it is that they want, and who can and will tell you what that is, and who will call you on your BS, when need be. Life's to freaking short.

[Gunny376]

I like your handle,

[JamesM]

Gunny, I cannot concur with your advice...at all. If I had followed your advice..and I was ready to do just that at one point, I would have missed out on a great marriage...better than before. But above all, I would have disappointed my children and broken up their lives. I would have given them an example to follow...when the going gets tough, bail out.

 

No, I think EVERY possible avenue and angle must be exhausted and looked at. Marriage vows must be honored. There is still a marriage. I did not say, " I do as long as you do." Neither did Matt. He still loves his wife. He may be just a month, a day, or even an hour from reconciliation and happiness.

[MattN]

Sometimes I feel as if she is going through some sort of depression because its seems like now she is unhappy with everything. Her job, our house, her car, me. Alway wanting to buy new things I mean just 3 months ago she has new end tables, entertainment center picked out and wanting to paint some rooms in the house that we just had painted 2 yrs ago and your planning all this while your also planning on leaving me? Always buying new clothes even though she has a crap load and money is kinda tight. Its like it seems nothings good enough anymore or its harder then she thought and she don't want to make any sacrifices for anything but she wasn't always like that.

 

A part of me wants to hope that shes going through something and she has lost herself considering how unhappy she is but I dunno. I have been there for her but when she has zero hobbies except shopping it gets pretty demanding of my time also. She would mostly just rather just stay in bed or just lay on the couch all day and watch tv. I'm not trying to slam her as I love her but it just seems like she is in a rut and everything got too hard and she just bailed because it is easy to move back home with mom and dad and only worry about paying a car payment and leaving me for the rest to deal with.

[Gunny376]

And, like Lady Jane said I'm not a "stay in the marriage" at any and all costs kind of guy (pretty damn close ~ but not 100%) but most martial differences can be worked, and talked out.

 

I guess I just worded it wrong ~ (hadn't had my caffiene IV yet) but, I was just ranting about how it blows me away how people just up and walk away. And, when they do ~ what are you going to do? Hold on to false hope like Thor and I did?

 

The fact of the matter is that Matt's wife is acting like a child. "No, I don't wanna! I don't feel like it, I'm going to go home to my Mama!"

[MattN]

I also realize I can't believe anything she says but she tells me

 

Maybe I was too young

Maybe I settled

Maybe things went to fast

Maybe there was never anything there

 

I mean there was something there when we decided a kid. I guess the hardest part for me really is to try and accept that my last 10yrs was a mistake, someone settled for me, that it may not have been there. I can't believe that I just feel that there was something more there. Don't get me wrong I know eventually I can and will move on and if what she says is true then I do deserve someone who appreciates me and my love but I married this woman and I made vows to her for better or for worse and through sickness and through health among others and I knew we would have hard times how can 2 people not but I just feel as if she gave up.

 

Then theres our son and what he has to go through which is the worst part because he is understanding a lot more then what I thought at 5

 

Sometimes I wonder if she didn't have mommy to fall back on so easy would she have bailed so easy? If things were so bad for so long then why is everyone so surprised and not just me?

 

I dunno and probably never will..

[Gunny376]

You may never know. I was married for 12 years. Been divorced for 16.

 

The only reason my XW gave me for the divorce was that I had to change, and that I wouldn't change she was going to divorce me and make me change. That and that I was a workaholic ~ (I was in the Marines and on the Drill Field for crying out load). To this day, that's all i've got. You reach a point to where you just have to let it go, and move on.

 

I agree with your assesstment ~ sounds like she's depressed about her life and can't find satisfaction with anything except perpetual shopping, and you were trying to take that away from her ~ or get her to cut back. Either way she's acting like a child IMHO!

[MattN]

Considering shes never had to stand on her own 2 feet sometimes I feel that way also. I find it funny how with all the money problems we have been having she was willing to drop out of school this fall to work full time to leave me but she never mentioned doing that to help US get our bills back in order.

[Ladyjane14]

Wow. This has been a busy thread today!

Good to see you btw, DD!

 

There've been so many good posts, I hardly know what to comment on first. You've been getting excellent feedback, Matt.

 

If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say the Paxil and depression are largely responsible for the loss of libido. Paxil is notorious for it. There are better medicines available these days with fewer side effects too. Wellbutrin for example, would be one such AD that doesn't tend to cause cause loss of libido as readily. Your wife needs to talk to her doctor about that. But unfortunately, you can't MAKE her do it.

 

And that's the problem with patients suffering with depression. We generally can't MAKE them seek treatment. Most likely, your wife's depression has not responded to treatment like it should have. It she's not following up regularly with her doctor and/or psychologist, she's not getting the best treatment. Chances are... she's not going to do anything about her depression until she HAS to. That will be when her life has become unhappy enough that she can no longer evade the truth of her condition.

 

That's assuming depression is the problem, mind you. It could very well be much as what Devildog has said.... "some people NEVER do grow up".

His thread is an interesting one, btw. If you right-click on his user name, you'll be able to search it up. He really did go through all the steps, and even if it seems a bit of a waste of time in hindsight... I doubt he loses any sleep wondering if he could have done more. He did all a guy can do.

 

It could also be as MzPixie has suggested. There might be a 'snake in your woodpile'. The verbiage that your wife has used sounds REALLY similar to alot of what we've heard around here when people are cheating. It was enough to send MY red flags up too.

 

While I appreciate what Lor's saying about how sometimes a woman needs to find herself and work through her issues... I tend to think a "Mr. Reality" approach, ala Gunny, would be a better opening salvo. You can follow up with the 'beta male' thing afterwards should she become compliant. But your wife's stance is completely oppositional. She's saying, "We're DONE", and she's shown no indication of backing off that position. I have to wonder if she knows what "DONE" really looks like. (????)

 

Mr. Reality don't play.

 

Mr. Reality says that if YOU are keeping the family home and primary custody of your child... STBXW needs to contribute with some child support. Mr. Reality says that while we don't mind paying our WIFE's tuition and bills... we ain't paying out the nose for random people. Mr. Reality says... if she's not 'IN', she's 'OUT'. And Mr. Reality says... she's not welcome to come back until she gets her sh*t together and decides to ACT LIKE SOMEBODY.

 

My advice to you is to be sweet, be nice, be attractive without being solitious... and see an attorney at your earliest convenience. Introduce REALITY into the equation. She says she wants to get a divorce without paying a lawyer. Tough. People in Hell want icewater. It don't mean they get it.

 

If I were you, I'd ask for primary custody of the child with liberal visitation for the mother. I'd make arrangements for daycare, cut back on my hours, and I'd make her responsible for deferring the cost by paying child support. I wouldn't give up a DAMN thing that was mine just because my spouse flaked out.

 

Dads don't ask for primary custody but about 20% of the time, but 80% of those who ask... will get it. If you're a good Dad, there's no reason why you should be relegated to a weekend warrior, just 'cause the little missus wasn't knee-slappin' happy all the time.

 

I would also put a stop to her ability to incur debt in my name. You've already said she likes to shop.

Cancelling her credit cards isn't good enough. She can always get more. You'll need legal work in place to put a stop to that.

 

This all sounds real mean, but it's not any more than the reality of the situation if you take her at her word. If you proceed to divorce, you're not going to want her up your butt all the time expecting YOU to make things right for her. You're not going to want to help her set up housekeeping.... just to watch her introduce other men into your son's life.

 

It's hard to imagine all that when you're still 'in love' and full of hope and sympathy. But... I think the trick here is to creatively visualize the future, should the divorce take place. If you take her at her word... you're going to want to secure the best possible future for you and your child. She'll be on her own to do the same.

 

The problem with amicable divorce for alot of guys is that they 'give away the store'. Nice guys who really haven't done anything horribly wrong sometimes still end up feeling guilty. They doubt themselves and wonder if they were bad husbands. Case in point... you were working 11 hours a day. Were you shooting craps in Vegas and dandling hookers on your knee? Or were you paying the mortgage on your family's home and paying the credit card bills?

[Ladyjane14]

... and Spurned.

 

I don't think I'm going to satisfy your curiosity today. I'm finding I rather like the whole mysterious Steel Magnolias / GI Jane persona. I think I'm going to enjoy that for awhile.

[MattN]

Well like I said she has basicly left everything except her clothes etc so I have the house but she is the primary care giver even though she wants to do joint and split our time with him. Right now I get every other day and when school starts I will get 3 nights a week. I know for sure that if I even attempt to take him away from her she will come full force after me and honestly shes a good mother and I would not and don't want to do that.

 

I know I need to seek some legal councel soon just to know what I could be in store for and where I stand. From what I understand its in my favor that she is the one that left the house but I dunno..

[Gunny376]

Accountability was the word that I was looking for. We as a society have become too enabling. Not happy ~ quit. Just walk a way and wander off into the sunset to find "true happiness, and "true love"

 

Fact of the matter is, Life is tough and a struggle no matter who you are. Its just is. "I beg your pardon ~ but no one prommised any of us a rose garden" nor a cakewalk.

 

You want out? Fine! Have a nice forever the rest of your life without me. But, in so long as you held up your end of the bargin, fullfilled your responsibilities I would hang my azz on some "lover's cross" for her nor anyone else ~ and that's a fact Jack.

 

And, I understand your wife's depression, but that's not justification. We need to start holding people's feet to the fire, and holding them accountable for their words, actions and deeds, and quit cuddling them with their lame azz excuses. There are too many of us walking around being weak minded.

 

The wife? She's in for a freaking rude awakening. If she wants to jump ship ~ fine let her. But, I wouldn't be her reseve parachute. If someone's out to hang you, you don't give them your horse and rope to do it with!

[Ladyjane14]

Well like I said she has basicly left everything except her clothes etc so I have the house but she is the primary care giver even though she wants to do joint and split our time with him. Right now I get every other day and when school starts I will get 3 nights a week. I know for sure that if I even attempt to take him away from her she will come full force after me and honestly shes a good mother and I would not and don't want to do that.

 

I know I need to seek some legal councel soon just to know what I could be in store for and where I stand. From what I understand its in my favor that she is the one that left the house but I dunno..

 

My best advice to you in the interim, is to make certain that you have physical custody of your child at least 50% of the time if not more NOW. It's terrific that she's a good mom and all. But every day that goes by sets up precedent. Every day she's gone allows her to set up an alternative routine, a new status quo.

 

The longer you can hold onto the house and maintain the family lifestyle, the more time you give her to backpeddle on her decision and come home. Usually, a WS who returns home is thankful that their spouse preserved as much as possible. And let's face it.... if she never comes home, you aren't going to care if she's pissed off or not.

[norajane]

Well like I said she has basicly left everything except her clothes etc so I have the house but she is the primary care giver even though she wants to do joint and split our time with him. Right now I get every other day and when school starts I will get 3 nights a week. I know for sure that if I even attempt to take him away from her she will come full force after me and honestly shes a good mother and I would not and don't want to do that.

 

I know I need to seek some legal councel soon just to know what I could be in store for and where I stand. From what I understand its in my favor that she is the one that left the house but I dunno..

 

And what is she going to come full force after you with? She left, she's on depression medication, and you've been the primary breadwinner and a good father. You haven't abandoned her or your son, you're not cheating, and she's got nothing on you...you can certainly make a strong case for primary custody. See a lawyer immediately so that you can make sure you're doing the right things now to build a case to gain custody of your son.

[Devildog]

I would also put a stop to her ability to incur debt in my name. You've already said she likes to shop.

Cancelling her credit cards isn't good enough. She can always get more. You'll need legal work in place to put a stop to that....

 

The problem with amicable divorce for alot of guys is that they 'give away the store'. Nice guys who really haven't done anything horribly wrong sometimes still end up feeling guilty. They doubt themselves and wonder if they were bad husbands. Case in point... you were working 11 hours a day. Were you shooting craps in Vegas and dandling hookers on your knee? Or were you paying the mortgage on your family's home and paying the credit card bills?

 

Amen to this! Protect yourself! I tried to go the work things out route as long as possible, and my XW in the meantime was running up bills and not paying any bills. Guess whose name was on the account? MINE! Guess who had to pay those bills? ME! I am still working to get out from under the debts that she put me into during our separation, and our's was relatively short!

 

And can I get another "AMEN" to the amicable divorce thing!?!? I gave up alot of material things in my divorce. My XW probably got about 85% of the home furnishings. What I managed to keep was things that were specifically designated as gifts to me. I let the other things go for a number of reasons. Trying to be amicable, trying not to make things ugly for my daughter's sake, and just to get the whole damn process over with. It left me in the hole with very little to my name, and like I said, I am still trying to get out of that hole over a year after the divorce. (But a large part of me still feels like it was worth it;) )

 

Semper Fi Gunny!