Another trial separation

[Gunny376]

Yes I know it took two of us to get where we are, but I just feel I did have a lot to do with it.

Thank you; I am proud of myself for admitting that I do have a problem and I do want to work on it to make "me" a better person because Lord knows I wouldn't want to live with someone that always told me what to do, but then if someone did tell me to do something I didn't want to do I would let them know what I thought.

 

Don't you have to look at the past to understand what you did wrong and to change that?

O.K. so I might have answered my own question just reading what you said again. I need to slow down and read things more then once and soke it in.

I need to look at the past to see what I did wrong but don't dwell on it, just use it as a learning example and then make the future better by what I did in the past.

I guess something else I need to start telling myself everyday is my life has started over as of Aug 31st (day she left) and what happened before that I can not change but I can change what is happening today and tomorrow.

THANKS!

 

"Take the pebble from my hand, Grasshopper!"

 

You can't see it, but you've made amazing progress in a short time. You're starting to graps and hold some paradoxial concepts at the same time. You're starting to see that something can be a "yes" and a "no" all at the same time. Your consciouness is expanding, your awarness is growing.

 

I personally can see the hard work you've put into, and are putting into this.

[PWSX3]

I personally can see the hard work you've put into, and are putting into this.

Thanks a lot Gunny that means a lot to me at this time.

[Gunny376]

By the time a child has reached the age of 18, they've heard over 80,000 negative comments, (You're not trying, you're not good enough, I wished you'd never been born, etc)

 

People not in the "know" belive that individuals that go through Marine Boot Camp are "brain washed" Not ture. What happens is that ove the course of 13 weeks of intensive training they are taught the concept of discipline. Discipline must come from within or from without.

 

Once having gone through Marine Bootcamp, forever more the rest of your life you've got your own personal Drill Instructor running around in your head.

 

I've read where 75% of everything ~ everyone thinks is negative. The thing is you can control that. At first you have to catch yourself, pause, and "flip" it. This is further documented in a book called, "MindSpeak"

 

All this to say, you are what you allow yourself to think. Control your thoughts, you control your emotions. As you allow yourself to think, is how you become.

 

As Abraham Lincoln said, "Most people are about as happy, as they make their minds up to be!"

[PWSX3]

I am almost finished fixing Teri's car and I was going to be nice and vacuum the interior for her, but then I remember what a friend told me about another question I had asked her and here is what I came up with.

 

I was going to vacuum her car to make it look nice because it is pretty dirty inside, but then I decided "NOT" to do it and here is my reason.

If we were getting a long and still living together then she would see it as doing something nice for her and she would appreciate it, but since we are not living together and I would clean it for her she would see it as me being controlling and showing her that she has a dirty car and can't clean it so I had to clean it. Just wondering if my thinking is correct or at least on the right track.

 

What my friend and I were talking about was next Thursday we see our counsler and I was going to take a couple roses for Teri, but my friend suggested that I wait; she said if I took flowers it is still a way of showing being controlling and taking charge of the appointment and if we do start dating again or seeing each other then that would be the time to show her I care with the flowers.

[PWSX3]

Last night I went and bought a book called Compelled to Control; Recovering Intimacy in Broken Relationships. A friend talked to there counselor at church and he said this is a good book that they use so I figure it can't hurt me any. This is hard for me because I am not a book reader, in fact I bet I haven't read 5 books since I graduated from high school but if I learn something from them it will be worth it. I also started to read His Needs, Her Needs but I figure I need to work on my controlling part and understand that first before I read books about making your relationship better.

 

I can't believe we see are counselor next Thursday. I was just wondering if anyone here has any advice for me?

I saw a post on another thread that Gunny said to be strong and show that you are doing fine & not to appoligize, but to say I did the best that I could for what I knew.

I feel I do need to tell her I'm sorry and that I didn't realize how I treated her until I started to read about a controlling person. I would also like to say; I thought most of it was my fault but I now know it takes 100% from each person to make a marriage work and that neither of us were doing that.

I would also like to tell her that I can't change the past as I think Dgiirl said but I can learn from the past and hopefully that will make me a better person for the future.

 

I haven't heard from a4a for a while, just wondering what her thoughts would be since I see her as my angel, she was the one that opened my eyes on all of this.

[a4a]

I feel I do need to tell her I'm sorry and that I didn't realize how I treated her until I started to read about a controlling person. I would also like to say; I thought most of it was my fault but I now know it takes 100% from each person to make a marriage work and that neither of us were doing that.

I would also like to tell her that I can't change the past as I think Dgiirl said but I can learn from the past and hopefully that will make me a better person for the future.

 

I haven't heard from a4a for a while, just wondering what her thoughts would be since I see her as my angel, she was the one that opened my eyes on all of this.

 

 

First of all don't pin responsibility on me And people here are going to tell you that you are indeed nuts for saying I am an angel. They would probably be more likely to say I am one of the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse......apprently I will be the 3rd one on the big black horse

(see avatar for a preview of my mount)

****************************************************

And if you feel like you did not treat your wife the way you wish you would have no harm in telling her so.

 

Best advice I can give is don't play games. Unless you mean if from the heart it is a lie and manipulation.

[dgiirl]

My best advice for counselling is simply go with no expectations.

 

If you want to appologize to her, then do so. It might be something she needs to hear. But dont dwell too much on your mistakes, and dont make excuses. I would simply tell her it was never your intention to make her feel the way she does, but you are starting to realize why she would feel the way she does and you are sorry.

 

Even though it's true, I would not tell her that it's both your faults and neither of you were working on the marriage. She might take this the wrong way. Nor would I tell her it was all your fault either. In fact, I'd leave the word "fault" out of your vocabulary. Fault has a negative connotation, and right now, you only want to have positive interactions with her.

 

When in doubt, put yourself into your wife's shoes. If you were feeling the way your wife feels, what would you want to hear? Too often, I get so worried about what i should say, that I forget to pay attention to how the other would percieve it.

 

Good luck

[PWSX3]

And people here are going to tell you that you are indeed nuts for saying I am an angel.

Don't care what people think if I tell you this because it is true , you were the one that opened my eyes to see how Teri was seeing me.

 

Thanks Dgiirl, I think you are correct with not saying anything about both of us are at fault because if she has been looking at herself she will also realize this and I don't have to remind her.

 

I do like how you worded it because that is a kind way but still gets the point over that I didn't understand or see how I was treating her. Like Gunny said someplace, the first time you do something it can be because you didn't realize it, but the second time it is you being stupid because you do know you are doing it. (something like that)

 

I know my situation is different then most people on here so it is a little hard for me to read some of the other posts, but I try and take from them what I can use and ignore the rest.

I do know I miss her, but I need to figure out if I miss her because I love her or just because I miss having my friend around.

[dgiirl]

Your situation isnt too different than the rest of ours. In fact, my exh claimed I was a bully, and demanding and said a whole bunch of hurtful things before he left too. Yes, I am opinionated. Yes, I can be aggressive. And yes, I realize that perhaps I said things or did things without realizing the impact it had on my exh. If he had spoken up and said something about it, if I realized the pain I was causing, I would NEVER have done it. And I'm sure you feel exactly the same way. This is why I can relate to your story. And like me, you are actually taking a deep look at yourself, looking at your faults, and making the effort to change them. These are all noble traits, things you should be proud of.

 

However, over the past year, I've realized that I wasnt as bad as he made me think I was. And there was a lot of things, just as hurtful, that he did to me in return. But I do know I have a problem. When I'm angry or scared, I yell and scream. Sometimes I swear, curse, and call names. None of it is excusable. The trick is not learning to stop yelling and screaming when i'm angry, because that's an action done in emotion. The trick is learning not to get so angry and scared that I resort to yelling and screaming. In order to control your anger, you need to analyze why you are angry over such things, and figure out what's really important in life. Is the amount of anger equivalent to the situation? A wife burning toast in the morning does not equal anger of a husband's yelling/screaming/throbbing blood vesels. He needs to ask himself why he would allow a simple thing of burnt toast get him so angry to the point that he could have a heart attack? Same questions could be asked with controlling behaviour. Does my need to offer advice and have my way equivalent to the situation? Showing a husband the exact brand of butter to use, and exact type of knife and method of spreading butter is not an equivalent action to just allowing the husband butter the bread his own way. On the other hand, when a wife does repeatedly tell the husband NOT to lick the butter knife, the husband should maybe listen before he cut his tongue (lol true story, my exh defiantly licks the butter knife in front of me, not realizing it was double sided, and then all this blood starts squirting out of his tongue and the shock and surprise on his face is absolutely priceless). In this case, I shouldnt be so wrapped up in telling him not to lick it. Sometimes, no matter how good our intentions are, we have to allow others to experience life on their own. He learned a lesson that day. I'm sure he still licks knives, but I bet you he checks first if it's double sided lol

[PWSX3]

in the book I am reading it says that anger is a good thing but you need to be able to control it which is what you said. It also said you should show your emotions because that will make you realize what is wrong. (something like that)

One of the ways that I was controlling or would say things that hurt the W for example was she likes hip hop rap type music and I would give her a hard time about it. Sure to me it was just in a joking way, but to her it was me telling her that she wasn't listening to the right music.

Now that I look back I see if she would have spoken up and let me know how she felt maybe some of the things wouldn't be such an issue such as me making her the rack to put the baskets in.

I saw it as a good thing, she saw it as she wasn't worthy of having a dresser but she never told me how she felt. But then that also might be a deeper issue as I look at it and the reason she kept her cloths in the baskets after washing them was she was either to lazy or didn't want to put them away in the first place and since I wanted a cleaner house that I was trying to show her she wasn't keeping the house clean.

 

There are so many things I am learning by looking in the past. Another good one is we have been seeing a counselor for 5 years and Teri gave me a list of things I was suppose to work on and I gave her a list. On that list the first one was not to ask her where she has been everytime she comes home, but I consitrated more on the dates we were suppose to plan and sharing the duties in the house. Now looking at it I didn't want to work on the first one because that meant me having to not be controlling but the dates I could do because I could come up with some really good ideas and then everyone would say; wow you planned such a great date, your W should be so happy to have a husband like you. I really think I was doing them more for me then her even though I really did enjoy doing special things for/with her.

 

I know I can't predect the future nor can I amagine what she is going thru right now, but I do see it took both of us to get us were we are at now and maybe she will see that I didn't do those things on purpose. Like the book said; someone with a controlling behavior also has a big imagination and I have an oversize one of that. I try and anilize everything and that isn't good, I just need to focus on me & not on everything that is going on because like everyone is saying I can't tell what is going to happen and I don't think Teri knows either, and I also can't make Teri love me.

 

It's only been a month and I am learning a lot but I guess the not knowing what is going to happen is the hardest part for me. I am a person that likes to plan things out, if it's someplace new I am going to I want to make sure I know how to get there before I go, if I planned a date I had all my ducks in a row before we ever left the house, etc.

[Gunny376]

My XW said I was too shy and wasn't assertive enought in expressing how I felt about things!

[dgiirl]

My XW said I was too shy and wasn't assertive enought in expressing how I felt about things!

 

hahahhahah yah right You never told her to man up?

[PWSX3]

Well I don't know if it was because I was thinking it's only a week before we see each other again for the first time in a month or wondering what happens if she didn't show up or what, but yesterday was a very hard day for me.

 

I was driving down to my dad's shop at noon and tears started coming down my cheaks, I'm not sure why or where they came from. I have learned it's ok for a 6'3" 230 pounds (now) to have emotions and it's ok to cry.

I grew up that you were suppose to suck it up and keep that stuff inside you but maybe I'm learning it's ok to let things out when you hurt inside.

 

Our counselor did call me last night to see if I wanted to make an appointment before me & the W meet next Thursday and I told her I would be fine. I did ask her what to expect on Thursday and she said; she had no idea that she would just ask how things are going, just general questions and then the W and I could talk to each other. I know this separation even took our counselor by surprise when Teri told her.

 

Today is a new day and I need to start with my chin up and just look at the possitive things I have been working on and don't dwell on what is going to happen on Thursday even though it's really hard to do.

[a4a]

Hang in there P.

 

An idea for you: (works for me if I hit an occassional slump)

 

1. you said you were having some financial problems, so use this time to find ways out of them, make more money, better that for yourself. Productive use of time.

 

2. Get outside get some more exercise.

 

3. set some goals for yourself. Start looking how you can achieve them.

 

4. work on a project that you enjoy or one even that you have been putting off.

 

Start using your time in a productive and positive manner for yourself.

 

Hell plan a trip, buget it out, pick hotels, pick attractions to see...... with or without your wife along with you...... something you would enjoy and if your wife does come back well she can go too. But you go no matter what..... take your son with you.

[PWSX3]

Hang in there P.

 

1. you said you were having some financial problems, so use this time to find ways out of them, make more money, better that for yourself. Productive use of time.

Just because of the separation the money is tight but I watch my money close and even though I didn't think I would have enough I'm finding out that I have extra money in my budget. Part of that is not driving all over the place, planning my trips, not eating as much and trying to eat better food.

2. Get outside get some more exercise.

This is one I've been working on, I try and walk at least two miles a day and then ride my bike for a half hour. I also want to take Patrick snow shoeing next month, I took Teri once for a date and it was a lot of fun.

So far I've lost 20 pounds and I really feel good inside & I can't believe how much more active you get once you lose a few pounds.

3. set some goals for yourself. Start looking how you can achieve them.

 

4. work on a project that you enjoy or one even that you have been putting off.

We just finished Teri's car and I also need to help Patrick finish his half doors we built for his Samurai. I got plenty of little things to do but when my boy is whith me I try and stay home or do things with him.

 

Hell plan a trip, buget it out, pick hotels, pick attractions to see...... with or without your wife along with you...... something you would enjoy and if your wife does come back well she can go too. But you go no matter what..... take your son with you.

 

If we do get back together I would like to have some extra money saved up so we can go do a small trip even if it's just going up to the mountains for the weekend. If not then I'll have money saved up to go 4-wheeling next year.

Thanks for the ideas and it's good to know that some of the ones I have started to do is ones others also agree are good.

[PWSX3]

Well I just finished my 1st book (His Needs, Her Needs) of many that I want to read and I highlighted a bunch of stuff but I have a feeling I'll be reading it gain soon to see what I missed the first time around.

 

I do have a question; Thursday me & the W will meet for the first time in a month and I haven't spoken to her since she moved out.

There is a show Friday evening that I would like to take my son to but he is with her this week. I was planning on asking her if it would be O.K. that he goes with me even though this is her week to have him?

I was also wondering what everyones thoughts were if I should ask the W if she wanted to go?

The show is called Luma and it has a lot to do with glow-in-the-dark stuff and black lights while they are dancing.

Here is what a good friend of mine told me when I asked her and after reading it she makes a lot of since.

 

You are separated and unless she shows an interest in getting together to work things out, I feel you should not be thinking of ways in which you can include her in your life. I’m sure your intention is good but probably back in there somewhere you are thinking of ways to do things that you know she would like ~ either trying to make it a family again or trying to show her a different side of you. Trying to be an intact family when it is not is just trying to mask the situation and play pretend for a while. I think it is better to heal the wounds and if you do get together at some time, it might be best to do it when she is ready and to do it for the purpose of having some very good discussion about changes, wants, desires, etc.

[PWSX3]

Well today our counselor called me and said she had to cancel our appointment on the 28th. She told me that they didn't think her mom was going to live thru the night and she was catching a plane to see her. I also found out the reason she cancelled mine two weeks ago is her dad passed away, if that doesn't suck I don't know what does.

 

Anyway she told me to call Teri & tell her she would re-scedule when she got back. She also told me to talk to her about the show I wanted to take our son to so after telling her I was told to call her from the counselor about cancelling our appointment I asked her if it would be O.K. if I took him to the show and she said; that would be fine and wanted to know what day she could make up having him extra? I told her I didn't care that he & she could figure that out and he could tell me when I picked him up Friday.

I got a call and it was the W, she just said she had an appointment with him next week to get his driving license & if it would be o.k. to take him next Friday?

I know it sounds bad that we had to figure out what to do with our boy, but at least we had a good discussion, worked it out and everyone is happy. It was good to talk to her and hear her voice even though I just talked about what we needed to talk about, nothing more. I didn't even ask her how she was doing because I knew she would just say; fine!

Now we wait to find out our next appointment and go from there.

[Gunny376]

I watched Dr. Phil today and he said something that hit home!

 

There are millions of men who don't give a **** about their wives and what they think about them, the way that you care about yours!

 

The problems with your wife, isn't so much about you but about you wives insecurties about herself and her life. And, you know what? There's nothing you can do about that!

 

You're a good man! You're manning the wall, and you're standing the watch. I would tell you to man-up, but you've already manned-up! You've already "bucked-up"

 

Prayers and peace for you and yours, Bro! Go Slow! Go slow!

[PWSX3]

I watched Dr. Phil today and he said something that hit home!

There are millions of men who don't give a **** about their wives and what they think about them, the way that you care about yours!

 

The problems with your wife, isn't so much about you but about you wives insecurties about herself and her life. And, you know what? There's nothing you can do about that!

 

You're a good man! You're manning the wall, and you're standing the watch. I would tell you to man-up, but you've already manned-up! You've already "bucked-up"

 

Prayers and peace for you and yours, Bro! Go Slow! Go slow!

Thank you Gunny for the support, that means a lot to me.

I do believe there are things she needs to work on and I hope she is working as hard as I am because if she is then we are both working 100% for each other.

 

Just looking at other threads I keep learning a little here and there each day. Gunny there are still lot of things I need to work on, it is not right the way I have treated my wife. Sure there are the things like managing the bills, keeping the house clean, etc. that hopefully being apart and having to be responsible just for yourself will get worked on, but I need to let her be herself and not control anything she does and learn not to worry all the time where she is.

Here is a good example from another thread. I used to be on the computer or out in the garage and I would go into the living room and pick up the remote control and not even care if anyone else was watching the T.V. It was my TV and I watch it whenever I want. There are a lot of little things such as this that I need to work on.

[Gunny376]

Thank you Gunny for the support, that means a lot to me.

I do believe there are things she needs to work on and I hope she is working as hard as I am because if she is then we are both working 100% for each other.

 

Just looking at other threads I keep learning a little here and there each day. Gunny there are still lot of things I need to work on, it is not right the way I have treated my wife. Sure there are the things like managing the bills, keeping the house clean, etc. that hopefully being apart and having to be responsible just for yourself will get worked on, but I need to let her be herself and not control anything she does and learn not to worry all the time where she is.

Here is a good example from another thread. I used to be on the computer or out in the garage and I would go into the living room and pick up the remote control and not even care if anyone else was watching the T.V. It was my TV and I watch it whenever I want. There are a lot of little things such as this that I need to work on.

 

LOL! Why aren't Lesbians Happy? And they're not!

[PWSX3]

Gunny you might be able to help me or anyone else that might have read one of these books.

There are two books written by Henry Cloud and I was just wondering if anyone has read either one and which one would be better for me, the two are;

Boundaries in Marriage and the other one is called

Boundaries; when to say yes, when to say no to take control of your life.

 

I don't really have the extra money to buy both of them so I would like to get some opinions before I go get one.

Now that I'm finished with one I'm ready to start another one. A friend is going to let me borrow; The 5 love languages

 

Thanks

[Gunny376]

http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=Book+Reviews+%2B+Henry+Cloud+%2B+Boundaries+in+Marriage+&FORM=MSNH

 

and

 

http://www.amazon.com/Boundaries-Marriage-Dr-Henry-Cloud/dp/0310243149

 

and

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0310243149/ref=sib_dp_pt/002-4809331-0564021#reader-link

 

 

Looks as though you can pick it up from Amazon used for $7 plus S&H

 

I would recommend that you check out the library. Alabama has a system set up where one library can borrow a book on loan from another library, for instance if the local library doesn't have the book, but they've got it in Brimingham (250 miles away) I can request it.

[a4a]

LOL! Why aren't Lesbians Happy? And they're not!

 

 

I know many happy lesbian couples. Some together for 20 years or more now.

 

 

P you are doing great you are learning so much about empathy. This is going to help you with all your relationships in life.

 

Wow your counselor lost both parents, that must be rough huh? Do you think that she/ he is capable to really work with you and your wife in his/her state of mind?

 

BTW do you think your wife eats because of anger that she keeps bottled up? or it could be the one thing she knows she can control in her life?

 

Gunny I hate to say this but his wifes problems are his as long as they are married and he is hoping to reconcile with her. The more he can learn to understand why she did/ does what she does the better chance they have of working it out together.

 

Instead of reacting to the rejection with an attitude of "screw her, not my problem" realize that leaving a spouse can be the "leavers" way of trying to fix things as they have no other way to do so. Not all people are able to communicate with each other properly or have the skills to solve their own problems. Hell if that were the case Rehabs would not exist, credit counseling, mechanics, or doctors. Screw you, fix it yourself.

 

Because some men treat their wives one way does not mean it will work in another M. Different people and different needs. It is easy to watch shows like Dr. Phil or for that matter Jerry Springer and say "hey I am awesome compared to those guys" but that is using another persons R to gauge and judge your own. After you read the 5 Languages, I think P, you will realize why that just does not work.

 

There is a point where one can say "screw you" though, once you have exhausted all avenues of trying. Realistic attempts not just half assed attempts to make yourself feel better on the surface.

[PWSX3]

P you are doing great you are learning so much about empathy. This is going to help you with all your relationships in life.

Thank you very much I appreciate that!!

Wow your counselor lost both parents, that must be rough huh? Do you think that she/ he is capable to really work with you and your wife in his/her state of mind?

I really hope so because I really like her. She is down to earth and talks a language that I understand.

BTW do you think your wife eats because of anger that she keeps bottled up? or it could be the one thing she knows she can control in her life?

The counsoler and I talked about this the last time I saw her by myself and she said there are many things that could be why, it could be because she just doesn't care (which I really don't think it is because she has tried loosing weight) or it could be because things like you suggest. Just like me she also has a lot of things to learn about us and herself.

Gunny I hate to say this but his wifes problems are his as long as they are married and he is hoping to reconcile with her. The more he can learn to understand why she did/ does what she does the better chance they have of working it out together.

I have to agree, even though I am changing "me" I still need to learn more about her. I know there has to be things that she is doing that trigger me and visa versa so if I learn those things then maybe we wouldn't even get into some of the arguements that we do. I really hope she is welling to read some of the books I have been looking at because they have really opened my eyes. I still need to understand why I do the controlling things but I hope that will come with learning more about how I need to treat a person.

Instead of reacting to the rejection with an attitude of "screw her, not my problem" realize that leaving a spouse can be the "leavers" way of trying to fix things as they have no other way to do so. Not all people are able to communicate with each other properly or have the skills to solve their own problems. Hell if that were the case Rehabs would not exist, credit counseling, mechanics, or doctors. Screw you, fix it yourself.

You learned how I am right from the beginning and I'm not one to communicate in the best way so I could use help on talking to the W in a sweeter way that she wouldn't feel like I'm just yelling at her or just telling her what I want but asking for what I want.

I know we both feed off each other, because I do something that she doesn't like she will return and do something I don't like.

Sex is another area we need to work on and reading books has really helped me to understand I was not meeting her needs so she was not meeting mine.

 

Because some men treat their wives one way does not mean it will work in another M. Different people and different needs. It is easy to watch shows like Dr. Phil or for that matter Jerry Springer and say "hey I am awesome compared to those guys" but that is using another persons R to gauge and judge your own. After you read the 5 Languages, I think P, you will realize why that just does not work.

A friend of mine has the book and is going to let me borrow it. I wish I could just buy all the books because I could highlight stuff in them and then go back again in a month or so and look at them again.

 

There is a point where one can say "screw you" though, once you have exhausted all avenues of trying. Realistic attempts not just half assed attempts to make yourself feel better on the surface.

Right now we are just in the cooling off stage and trying to figure out what we need and what went wrong, once we start working on our relationship again if we can't work things out then I feel both of us can say; I guess it just wasn't meant to be because I feel I will have done everything I can do.

 

Gunny I found where you can buy those books used but by the time you pay freight it is almost as much as buying them new. I was just hoping someone had read either one of those books and I could just buy the one now that would be more helpful at this time. I would like to read both of them at some time.

[PWSX3]

Need some opinions;

as you know yesterday was supposes to be the day we met our counsoler and we didn't. There were a couple questions that I wanted to ask the W, one about a credit card, I want her to cancel it because I paid it off with one in my name. We had talked about doing this before she moved out.

I also wanted to talk to her about our boy getting his drivers license and another question about a bill.

I emailed her and asked if she wanted to meet me or have me email her and she said; just email her.

I emailed her but I haven't gotten a reply and I know she has had time. What are your thoughts on this??????

Right now I have negetive thoughts going thru my head. Maybe I should have just waited until we see our counsoler to bring this all up then I don't know.