A mans pov on booby staring?

[Becoming]

Geez, A, this is really sad. This will absolutely break your heart and possibly your spirit if you're not careful.

 

Seriously passive-aggressive because he doesn't feel strong enough to match your strength. And he won't be until he faces whatever's going on with him, which he refuses to do (with or without professional help, it seems).

 

As I see it at this point, you can stay and do tough-love maneuvers that force him to grow slowly bit by agonizing bit (which can drive ya crazy if you're not careful) or cut your losses.

 

I understand why you can't trust him financially and why things are separate. And why in the world would you want it any other way, given the circumstances and history? So ignore all the me, mine, and ours talk. They just can't get what you're going through here.

 

What is it he wants to do as far as a job goes? And is it impossible to do that? That can lead to the despairing funk he seems to be in so that he just quits trying.

 

Dear goodness, look how much work he's requiring of LS! And why are WE so eager to help him? What's that say about us?

[a4a]

Geez, A, this is really sad. This will absolutely break your heart and possibly your spirit if you're not careful.

 

Seriously passive-aggressive because he doesn't feel strong enough to match your strength. And he won't be until he faces whatever's going on with him, which he refuses to do (with or without professional help, it seems).

 

As I see it at this point, you can stay and do tough-love maneuvers that force him to grow slowly bit by agonizing bit (which can drive ya crazy if you're not careful) or cut your losses.

 

I understand why you can't trust him financially and why things are separate. And why in the world would you want it any other way, given the circumstances and history? So ignore all the me, mine, and ours talk. They just can't get what you're going through here.

 

What is it he wants to do as far as a job goes? And is it impossible to do that? That can lead to the despairing funk he seems to be in so that he just quits trying.

 

Dear goodness, look how much work he's requiring of LS! And why are WE so eager to help him? What's that say about us?

 

You know it would hurt if it does not work out.....but I will live. I mean it is a fact I will go on. Not being cold but realistic.

 

I think he is damn lucky I am giving him a chance here. And if he actually does something towards the right direction I will be happy.

 

And if he had access to my accts (which I did give him a ATM card for one of them and he drained it dry the other day without telling me It is a little acct I use for things like gas. or small purchases... fun money) he would drain those while the truck still sat in the drive with zero effort to sell it ..... just like the past entire year.

 

I enabled him by being nice....... by helping....... by giving without expecting him to be responsible.

 

His job is fine now. But he is playing serious catch up. And not getting ahead of the game at all..... he was just squeakin' by before. But now he is way behind. ZERO income for 2- 3 months from him. I have to pay my bills as well for the business and for the land I own.....truck we drive.

 

He says LS people are all nut cases that need to get a life.......

Hell he doesn't know I post here that much.... he only sees me here from time to time.... when he is home he gets my full attention.

 

BTW

Hey I have not combed my hair today.. ... I am still in my PJ pants..... I like not doing anything!!! Being on Strike Rocks!! ......I lied I fed the animals that are here...... in my PJs too!

[Moose]

WTF...... how long how long is a person supposed to deal with this. More so when the person you are dealing with says " I know...... I am going to, I will, I want to,"

A LOT longer than 8 months, That's for sure. Some, (including myself), believe it's till death do you part.......but society will surely rid us of that requirement sooner than later.....

If you owned a business and your wife came and wiped out your business bank acct..... what would you do? Say oh well its our money she can do that.

She wouldn't do anything like that, without me knowing it, or having something to do with it. We are one. But let's just say she did for example......so what? Yeah, I'd be pissed, and would throw a fit, maybe even cuss a little......money doesn't matter to me as much as she matters to me. You're talking to the wrong person when it comes to money......

See he is not the team player.....not me.

This just doesn't make any sense to me at all.....Are you saying that you're the team player, and he isn't? Or both of you aren't team players?

we have a prenup...... so the court has nothing to do with nothing.... as a matter a fact.... maybe I need to really start adding up the amount of cash I am sinking into this place to make sure I get it back......something I have not done.

The, "P" word.....

 

In my perfect little world, prenups would be highly illegal, licenses wouldn't be given out until both the man and woman knew this is a LIFE long decision, there's no way out, and divorce doesn't exist......

 

If you have to have a piece of paper securing something just for yourself, then you're too selfish to offer your ALL to another person.......simple as that.....

But I still don't see why you gravitate to fighting with me?.... you are not my H. Why do you care? For some reason I am hitting one of your buttons huh?

Nah, I'm not fighting with you, you might perceive it that way, but I'm just disagreeing with your techniques.

 

Your deadline, your demands, your expectations......to change your husband.......yes, that hits does hit my button because you're Mrs. Moose 17 years ago, and I hated her guts when she was like that.

 

Neither one of us was getting from the relationship what we wanted/needed this way, and I hate to see someone else go through it all over again.......

 

Good luck to you, and I hope your husband does change......but not for you. I mean that with the upmost sincerity......

 

You'll naturally take that last comment as an insult, but if you think about it, it's what really needs to happen......

[a4a]

A LOT longer than 8 months, That's for sure. Some, (including myself), believe it's till death do you part....

.

 

So does this include if he was beating me too? or screwing the women in the neighborhood? Or refused to get off his butt and let his kids starve to death.... everyone has their own idea about what enough is... some can take a beating and not mind it, some can deal with a cheating spouse, some can forgive a spouse that molests their own kids...... see this is not your decision and for some reason if another persons marriage is not fitting your "ideals" it is wrong.... maybe because you need to cling to it so hard because your own may be screwed up???

 

 

Or both of you aren't team players? The, "P" word.....

 

A team player would not ignore the problems for 8 months.

 

In my perfect little world, prenups would be highly illegal, licenses wouldn't be given out until both the man and woman knew this is a LIFE long decision, there's no way out, and divorce doesn't exist......:rolleyes

:

 

Then marriage would not exist because many people would be beaten, hurt, abused, and treated like dirt with no escape.......

 

If you have to have a piece of paper securing something just for yourself, then you're too selfish to offer your ALL to another person.......simple as that.....Nah, I'm not fighting with you, you might perceive it that way, but I'm just disagreeing with your techniques.

 

Oh ok......your right, but gee whiz you would be singing a different tune if your wife walked out on you with another man now and took you to the cleaners Or maybe I should let his skanky sister sue me for half of what I walked into this marriage with if my H died........ and you know I just thought about it..... my name isn't even on this house that we share.... It probably should be since I am paying.... it never even really occurred to me to bother with that......so how is that for not caring about his mine stuff.... prenup is business related and to be honest I stand to walk into a vastly huge sum of money in a short time 5-10 years. Which he is not very aware of.

 

Your deadline, your demands, your expectations

..

 

He chose the actual deadline not me.

 

 

....

to change your husband.......yes, that hits does hit my button because you're Mrs. Moose 17 years ago, and I hated her guts when she was like that.

 

See it was obvious that you still have not gotten over it and am putting me into your wifes role back then.........ahhh I guess you did not read all the wonderful things I have done for him over the years. Your unresolved feelings are projecting this onto me..... interesting indeed. entertaining at least.

 

Neither one of us was getting from the relationship what we wanted/needed this way, and I hate to see someone else go through it all over again.......

 

Again you are projecting your own relationship and past here..... your experience is not mine even tho in your eyes it may feel like it is. I honestly am sorry if my post brought up hurtful feelings for you..I really am... and is there a possiblity that you are feeling anger, shame, or guilt for how you were and it is coming up here?

 

Good luck to you, and I hope your husband does change......but not for you. I mean that with the upmost sincerity......

 

You'll naturally take that last comment as an insult, but if you think about it, it's what really needs to happen......

 

 

I hope he can change too.... back to how he was or improved. Not for me but for him indeed. And like I tell him...... if we do not work this out I want you to take everything we are going through right now and use it to make sure that your next relationship is the best it can be. And I do mean that.

And I also said to him if I do not make him happy, if I cannot, he deserves far better than that and we should split. I want him happy.......of course..... I want me happy. This is not about me.... hell ignoring him or just leaving would be so so so so much easier. Come on now what does he have that I could be using him for??? money, elaborate gifts, sex, companionship, maid services? I don't need him for those things...... I only need him because I want him and I need him to show me that he cares as much as I do.... he dropped the ball and for some reason refused to pick it back up.

 

Moose you keep missing a huge point here:

 

My husband says he has been a complete and utter ass to me. He says that.

He says I make him happy.... I ask how I need to change... he asked only that I do not leave until he has a chance.... So if he feels this way why do you need to keep telling me how terrible I am..... you are acting like an attorney in court fighting tooth and nail for a case that does not exist.

 

So this is not about me or my relationship.....you're kinda fighting with me about your own past aren't you? But you cannot as I am not your wife...you are not my H.....total different life, total different beliefs and values.

[hotgurl]

a4a,

Does hubby even have a financial plan to get himself out of debt or a budget?

 

What did he do when he was unemployeed?

 

Your atm example is why my BF and I have seperate finaces.

[a4a]

a4a,

Does hubby even have a financial plan to get himself out of debt or a budget?

 

What did he do when he was unemployeed?

 

Your atm example is why my BF and I have seperate finaces.

 

His plan was to sell the truck to pay off some of his debt.

(see this is where the effort thing comes in)

 

He played around in his woodshop for two months.... he physically looked for a job 1 day. he mowed the lawn...... puttered around like a stay at home vacation..... I really did not say a word for the first couple of weeks because he did need some time to relax and mend.

 

shoooooot me........ shhhhooooot me now

[scrybe74]

So apprently it is fine for other men to ogle my body at any time.

 

My H does not seem to care. This weekend while working on a project a rather cute young man was giving me the stare down... making suggestive flirty comments right in front of my H to me. I thwarted the comments in a nice way but firm. Got in the car with the H and he stated he was indeed well aware of all of it.

 

Stated it could be taken as a compliment and he was not worried about the other man making such comments to me or staring.......

 

wtf is this?

 

Like he said it is kinda like a compliment because he feels like "yeah stare all you want buddy......she is mine"

 

Funny thinking back I should have just flashed the guy my boobs and offered him a bj right in front of the H.......

 

For some reason I am flaming pissed that my H has zero reaction to this.....or he just figures I would not act or react on this young mans obvious advances?

 

This is common behavior for the H....... maybe he needs a little lesson? I should let things take off with the staring and commenting? His friends even offer to have sex with me without my obvious approval of their comments......the H does not give a rip...... nice...... real sweet......

 

I am again livid at this moment with him..... so mad........

 

I'm late to the conversation and don't have time today to read through all of the posts but I'll say this. I've never been jealous of a guy looking at my girl/wife in the past. I think people who get that angry are insecure. I've always been relaxed around it. If the look/comments made her uncomfortable OR if the other guy was openly trying to challenge or disrespect me then I'd speak up but other than that I'd just let their tongues wag. My first wife was the type of woman that when we walked into a room just about every man there turned to have a look. She was beautiful and like to dress sexy but wasn't a flirt at all. It never bothered me because I fully trusted her that nothing would happen.

 

The other possibility is this....if the young man was so blatant in his come-ons to you and your H's friends have offered to have sex...it's possible that your H is setting you up. There are some men who get off on their women sleeping with other man. This could be is semi-subtle way of letting you know that he's open to it. He's probably told his friends to make comments to see what you would do....

 

Either way I wouldn't get angry at him. I don't think it's a case of him not caring.

[hotgurl]

His plan was to sell the truck to pay off some of his debt.

(see this is where the effort thing comes in)

 

He played around in his woodshop for two months.... he physically looked for a job 1 day. he mowed the lawn...... puttered around like a stay at home vacation..... I really did not say a word for the first couple of weeks because he did need some time to relax and mend.

 

shoooooot me........ shhhhooooot me now

 

I don't understand his disconnect. He knows he is in debt, He knows he treats you like crap but does nothing about it at all.

 

It's weird like he just can't.

[scrybe74]

I'm catching up....if he treats you like crap show him the door.

[a4a]

I don't understand his disconnect. He knows he is in debt, He knows he treats you like crap but does nothing about it at all.

 

It's weird like he just can't.

 

I am starting to think he is delusional....

 

like Ed McMahon is really coming to the door with a check

 

and you nailed it with this post......

except he is showing signs of effort now. I hope it keeps up.

[a4a]

I'm catching up....if he treats you like crap show him the door.

 

 

well it is in his hands..... but that is an option.

 

In many ways he is quite wonderful.... not a drunk, not a cheat, wants to be with me, does not put others first......like choice of partying with the guys or being with me. No sneaky porn...... not a womanizer at all. respects....... ya know.... good guy.

 

But I got to wonder if that should just be normal....... and not a great surprise/ quality.

[Moose]

So does this include if he was beating me too? or screwing the women in the neighborhood? Of course not, now you're being silly....Or refused to get off his butt and let his kids starve to death.... everyone has their own idea about what enough is... some can take a beating and not mind it, some can deal with a cheating spouse, some can forgive a spouse that molests their own kids...... I agree with you. see this is not your decision and for some reason if another persons marriage is not fitting your "ideals" it is wrong.... maybe because you need to cling to it so hard because your own may be screwed up???

I don't know why you'd think my marriage is screwed up.....but oh well....as far as other marriages not fitting, "my ideals", being wrong with me....that's BS.....rephrase that to say God's ideals, and I'll agree with you there.

Then marriage would not exist because many people would be beaten, hurt, abused, and treated like dirt with no escape.......

What's the difference?.......it still happens even with the escape of divorce......

Oh ok......your right, but gee whiz you would be singing a different tune if your wife walked out on you with another man now and took you to the cleaners

Well, if that were even possible......

 

Ever hear the saying, "The first million is the hardest to make, from there it's a cake walk"? Well....it's true, so she and her new boyfriend can have whatever they want, I'll be just fine....

I stand to walk into a vastly huge sum of money in a short time 5-10 years. Which he is not very aware of.

Keeping secrets is also a bad idea in a marriage. But.....I don't know.....maybe it's ok for yours.....

He chose the actual deadline not me.

Fine. Like I've said before, you should just leave it alone, quite even trying, and let him fail miserably, and let him reap the ramifications. You want to see him grow, sometimes it takes a hard ass hit.

See it was obvious that you still have not gotten over it and am putting me into your wifes role back then

OH, I'm over it all right. But Mrs. Moose isn't. She still hates herself for HOW SHE WAS TREATING ME! And I fear you will feel the same way about yourself someday.

ahhh I guess you did not read all the wonderful things I have done for him over the years.

Sure I did. I'm not against you at all. I'm all for you and your marriage. You just read my posts defensively.

Again you are projecting your own relationship and past here..... your experience is not mine even tho in your eyes it may feel like it is. I honestly am sorry if my post brought up hurtful feelings for you..I really am... and is there a possiblity that you are feeling anger, shame, or guilt for how you were and it is coming up here?

I hope you weren't trying to be sarcastic......what you're going through is EXACTLY what we went through unless your posts are full of lies and your not having problems at all.....

I hope he can change too.... back to how he was or improved. Not for me but for him indeed. And like I tell him...... if we do not work this out I want you to take everything we are going through right now and use it to make sure that your next relationship is the best it can be. And I do mean that.

And I also said to him if I do not make him happy, if I cannot, he deserves far better than that and we should split. I want him happy.......of course..... I want me happy. This is not about me.... hell ignoring him or just leaving would be so so so so much easier.

This is probably the nicest thing I've heard you say thus far......good for you!

Moose you keep missing a huge point here:

No, I think you are......because:

My husband says he has been a complete and utter ass to me. He says that.

He says I make him happy.... I ask how I need to change... he asked only that I do not leave until he has a chance....

He knows what's wrong with himself, people have these cycles in their life, bouts of depression, un certainty......the good news is, it's not always a permanent condition. It may take all of 8 months, or 8 years.....but placing deadlines for a person to change isn't going to help matters one bit. That was a big mistake for him to do so too, but like I said, he'll figure that one out for himself.

So if he feels this way why do you need to keep telling me how terrible I am.....

Point out where I called you a terrible person, and I'll answer you.

you are acting like an attorney in court fighting tooth and nail for a case that does not exist.

And your acting like, "lil miss, lil miss, can't be wrong"...... Sorry, don't mean that as an insult......just couldn't resist...

So this is not about me or my relationship.....you're kinda fighting with me about your own past aren't you?

That's hilarous!

[hotgurl]

Fine. Like I've said before, you should just leave it alone, quite even trying, and let him fail miserably, and let him reap the ramifications. You want to see him grow, sometimes it takes a hard ass hit.

 

I agree with this 100%. I also think he might be depressed. a4a I think you are so angry because you care so much.

[a4a]

Moose I would hate myself more if I just walked out the door......... so would he.

 

I am not sure about your ideals of marriage.... I did not take your vows at all.

 

and again you do not read what I say at all.

 

I have beaten the hell out of myself thinking it was all my fault.

 

and he is dealing with the consquences of his poor decsions and lack of actions...... his cell phone got turned off yesterday...... I did not pay it like I usually do.

[Moose]

Moose I would hate myself more if I just walked out the door......... so would he.

Yes, this would be terrible. Especially, (in my eyes), since your problems aren't near bad enough to constitute a divorce or walking out. Your problems are teeeny tiiiny if you ask me.

I have beaten the hell out of myself thinking it was all my fault.

I apologize, I had to go back and skim over all of your posts......I just don't see anywhere where you're beating yourself up saying it's your fault......I do see, (all over the place), where you've done this, and you've done that.....is that what you're talking about?

[Becoming]

Good for you for not paying the phone bill! And thank God for prenups (she said ducking Moose trackings).

 

This really is like dealing with a drunk . . . who doesn't drink. I have no other way of explaining it. You have to put firm boundaries down and take no excuses, justifications, BS, and not enable them by helping them be irresponsible. Then they begin to get it. You can do all that nicely but firmly and still take care of yourself, but it's hard.

 

The problem becomes at some pt. that you love the guy.

 

A strange wondering, though, based on the Ed McMahon thing (which I completely get). Did everyone just provide for his needs without him ever having to initiate much of anything? Cover for him if he, say, forgot to feed the dog, take out trash, etc.? So if he didn't do something someone always covered without him having to worry about it? Until you.

 

I once said to my H: "So do you think a silver platter with all your wants and needs is going to descend from heaven sometime soon and open up before you [because he didn't have the initiative to even open the platter!], or do you think you might have to do something?"

[RecordProducer]

a4a, after reading page 13 of this thread, I have a totally different view of your whole marriage. (I didn't read 14 and 15). You are right, this has nothing to do with my occasional marital issues so my strategies don't apply to your case.

 

I thought he didn't work for two months, but turns out that you were the wealthy and successful one before you got married and he was never one. On top of that, he quit his job. Your natural female instinct resents him for being such a loser (financially). Oh, I completely understand that.

 

Your resentment is justified by mother nature (the moralists and fervent proponents of equal rights for both genders can deny my theories and call me or you bitches all they want)! When a husband lives on his wife's back like a parasite - there is no future for that marriage unless something changes or they both like it.

 

My husband's mom is 71 and her boyfriend is 48. They've been living together for half a year or so. At first he didn't work, they traveled. But now he works as a carpenter. She is retired and they live in her house (he is from another state). So even he, who is 23 years younger than her has to work and support himself. She doesn't want to be used.

 

In your case, you're an attractive, smart, successful, hard-working woman and you're married to a loser. He is not a stay-at-home mommy, he is not doing all the house work (cook, clean, feed the animals, fix things, shop, etc.). He is neither wearing the pants nor the skirt in your marriage.

 

This is obviously not the "I got the money, you got the looks" type of deal. There is no balance or fair reciprocity in your relationship. You're a good catch and he is not (for a man).

 

I had a BF who was a loser in every sense, but I didn't know any better at the time. He also quit his job and never ever had a decent job after that, but that was not in the US. Anyways, the two things that were deal-breakers and that I stated to him as a reason why I didn't want to marry him were:

1. You refuse to help me around the house.

2. You refuse to accept that our budget is mutual (read: you want to spend my money on you and claim your money as YOUR money).

 

He had no problem using my money. I remember when I lived in Paris, I invited him to come and see Paris. He initially refused, because he said he had no money and didn't want to take mine! (Like it would be the first time! )

 

I finally persuaded him to come. He borrows money from his friend/boss, flies to Paris, and on the first day we have a huge fight about money. Namely, he tells me that he wants to buy presents for everyone (with my money, of course!). I tell him "F your friends and relatives, I have no intention to buy them presents." He says they deserve it, he owes them, it's not big money. (He basically begs after I said "NO"! ) Etc. You get the picture.

 

Anyway, we make it out and a few months later we move in together (not in Paris). I go to work earlier than him (wake up at 6,45 am) and come back later than hi (4,30 pm), I cook, he sits on his ass after dinner, I do the dishes (the dish washer was broken), he leaves his clothes all over MY apartment... again you get the picture.

 

I ditched him... no! I catapulted him out of my life like a rocket bomb. And the funny thing was: even after I broke up and he was chasing me, when I told him why I dumped him, he said: "No I am not going to help you with the female chores and I am going to do what I want with my money. If you could change a little, we could work it out."

 

I told him: "Hey it's YOU who wants me back - YOU change. And you're so dumb for saying what you said, but even if you promised to change, I wouldn't believe you. It's over."

 

I think this was a funny story. And this guy was really a total loser, on a much lower level than me in every sense. Primitive Neanderthal, the lowest possible class, high-school drop-out, stupid, lazy, stubborn, chronically unemployed... didn't even like to take showers! Can you imagine him with me? He married a hair dresser and they have a son and - he is still unemployed!!!

 

Your guy is certainly not that bad. But I do understand where you're coming from with the money thing. It's a natural instinct for a woman to admire a man who can provide and protect her. You can't fight against it. It would be like fighting against your sexual desire or hunger or thirst. It has been in you for millions of years and you can't change it in one day or one year or one life time. If you were poor yourself, people would call you a gold digger. If you are successful, they may call you discriminative or a snob or whatever... But I know how you feel. I've been there more than once. Being married to someone successful feels great. Being supported doesn't feel so great. I intend to make money myself, but I will always want to be with someone who makes more than me. Because I am a woman.

 

So you basically have three theoretical options:

 

1. To accept him the way he is and live like that.

2. To always push him to do something and hopefully have some results.

3. To find a man who is compatible with your natural needs.

 

The good news is: you've got the money, you've got the looks. It could've been the other way round!

 

Now I understand your avatar. It's your husband in it!

[Walk]

I don't know if you'll find anything in this post that will be of any help...

 

I almost can't read your thread, it reminds me of my marriage so much. Brings up all these feelings of anger, resentment, feeling of being used and drained dry. I really never saw a reason to leave my marriage while i was in it.. he was a decent person. He had a lot of good things about him, things I loved about him. I agonized over it for a long while. Wondering what I wasn't saying right, or if I needed to do more, what was *I* doing wrong that was causing him to react the way he was. I blamed it on him being depressed. Blamed it on his job. Blamed it on his childhood (he had a normal childhood). I blamed everyone and everything but him.

 

Hell, I still kind of blame myself for the way the marriage went, even though I know it wasn't me. I thought if I could communicate better, that he would've understood and of course he'd want to change.... He always said he would change.. but nothing ever did. Sometimes for a day or two, but that was the extent of it.

 

I guess, what I believe happened... up until we were married, my exh knew that he could lose me. I was.. like a possesion to him. Something he valued and could lose. His friends were jealous and he liked that. His family loved me, and he liked that. It increased his self-esteem to have me. After marriage though.. he no longer feared losing me. I was bound to him by law forever. So he no longer needed to put forth effort to keep me. It was not a concious thought with him, and I would bet that he never even realized his mentality changed. But his actions did.

 

I believe that deep down, he won't ever change. No matter what the outside stimulus is. Its such a core aspect of his personality that he is unable to change it. I thought for a while after I left him, that he was capable of changing. That he'd finally realized how much I'd been hurt by his behavior. But it was temporary too. He talked about change, but no follow through. He became die hard christian, spoke of morals and the "roles" of man and woman. (which is why I got so upset at Moose's post) About how he would "always be there for me".

 

I gave him another chance even while the divorce papers were being drawn up. I'd broken my back and arm, I was on vicadin and couldnt' drive. He offered to give me a ride to work (he was unemployed and I was still paying all his bills) and I took him up on it. But two days from the moment he swore he was a changed man, I called him from work, balling my eyes out, begging him to come pick me up because the pain was so excurtiating, and my boss had just chewed me out... My exh said he was in his weekly "counseling" session with his pastor, and asked if I could wait. Uhm... sure, let me set aside my needs (yet again) so that you can discuss how hurt and angry you are that your cash cow is leaving you..... I ended up standing in front of the doors to work for nearly an hour, face all red and puffy from crying and shivering my ass off. (it was winter, and I had a broken back.. shivering hurts!)

 

I yanked everything at that point. All financial support, all contact, everything. I told him to keep everything he had in his possesion (the house, the cars, everything), just sign the divorce papers and he could keep the $190,000 in cash he got from selling the house I paid for.

 

Sorry.. that wasn't very helpful... basically, what I'm saying is he may not ever change. And I think the time for the caring supportive SO is over. Treat him like the most obstinant horse you've ever trained. You can't have a partnership if everytime something happens he bolts and runs you over. It takes firm, consistent and clear messages over an extended period of time to train a horse. Years of training before they begin to become dependable in their behavior.

 

Consistent, clear and firm boundaries. I didn't do this well enough. I thought a little change would last, and it would lead to more. It wasn't a start for him though, it was a quick patch, a quick fix. He was so in the mindset of get what he needed right then.. not really seeing the future.

 

As far as your situation goes, I think it'll get worse before it gets better. Don't delude yourself in that. Whatever change you see right now won't last. It will constantly need to be reinforced until it becomes habit for him.. he has to unlearn his behavior, relearn new behavior. It's going to be a long time before you see any lasting change in what you're attempting to do.

 

Anyway.. I feel for you. Its not an easy situation to be in, and it's emotionally and physically draining on a constant level.

[a4a]

Yes, this would be terrible. Especially, (in my eyes), since your problems aren't near bad enough to constitute a divorce or walking out. Your problems are teeeny tiiiny if you ask me.I apologize, I had to go back and skim over all of your posts......I just don't see anywhere where you're beating yourself up saying it's your fault......I do see, (all over the place), where you've done this, and you've done that.....is that what you're talking about?

 

:rolleyes:

 

 

 

sheesh moose you don't know too much about how humans react in general do you?

[a4a]

Good for you for not paying the phone bill! And thank God for prenups (she said ducking Moose trackings).

 

This really is like dealing with a drunk . . . who doesn't drink. I have no other way of explaining it. You have to put firm boundaries down and take no excuses, justifications, BS, and not enable them by helping them be irresponsible. Then they begin to get it. You can do all that nicely but firmly and still take care of yourself, but it's hard.

 

The problem becomes at some pt. that you love the guy.

 

A strange wondering, though, based on the Ed McMahon thing (which I completely get). Did everyone just provide for his needs without him ever having to initiate much of anything? Cover for him if he, say, forgot to feed the dog, take out trash, etc.? So if he didn't do something someone always covered without him having to worry about it? Until you.

 

I once said to my H: "So do you think a silver platter with all your wants and needs is going to descend from heaven sometime soon and open up before you [because he didn't have the initiative to even open the platter!], or do you think you might have to do something?"

 

I have used the drunk analogy with him...... told him I am no longer pouring his booze down the sink..... it is not my problem, I cannot make you stop.

 

Oh yes, my, the silver platter........used that one too. He was always self sufficient before we married. Ambition....... ability.... he was not a dead loser or I would not have bothered with him.

 

More improvements last night. 100 mile road trip. Chatted about the dog attack thing, he said at the moment it happened with the fat man it was so so unbelievable he was not sure what to do..... he remembers well as he was talking about the fat mans squeaky voice.

 

Had a huge chat about how he can make me happy.... so big that we sat in my truck in the driveway.....debated the flower theory

 

He did come in and look up some debt consolidation and agreed to tackle that issue asap during our drive..... finally after me mentioning it and giving him advice on it.

 

ugggggh I am tired.

 

 

oh here is a kicker..... I think it does hit on something.

We are driving along in a highly patrolled area the speed limit drops..... I say the speed limit here is 45....... he says to me "where is the sign?"

 

ahhhhhh....... doh..... he knows I drive this road every other day.... I know this road I have driven on it for 5 years... a cop sits on the corner ahead with radar..... yet wants to know where the sign it that says 45...... X SQUEEZE MMMME....

 

So got into the debate if I state the speed limit is 45 but he does not actually see the sign he does not believe it? :lmao:

 

Similar to the zombie thing at the gas station I posted about before.... I was kiddin' around with him after watching a zombie movie the night before I jumped into the car and said "hurry get the hell outta here, go, go, go" he wont budge... starts asking why..... I just keep saying go go go, we have to GO! .... he wont move.... :lmao: Too late the zombies got us.......

 

It is like unless he can actually see it, make the calls on it, studies it, he will not take action on a persons word or advice alone. I know he is stubborn but what if I indeed know there was a person trying to kill me and he just sat there asking questions and not moving? :lmao: The zombies would indeed eat us both.

[a4a]

As far as your situation goes, I think it'll get worse before it gets better. Don't delude yourself in that. Whatever change you see right now won't last. It will constantly need to be reinforced until it becomes habit for him.. he has to unlearn his behavior, relearn new behavior. It's going to be a long time before you see any lasting change in what you're attempting to do.

 

Anyway.. I feel for you. Its not an easy situation to be in, and it's emotionally and physically draining on a constant level.

 

Walk it did help... although he would not leave me sitting in pain....but than again he has been sitting leaving me in pain in a non physical way. Hummm?

 

Well Walk in my line of work I am able to set those boundaries and rules and stick to them. I have let things go his way for 8 months.....he had his chance. Now it is my way and he has the choice to either comply or quit.

 

Time will tell. I am good at taking things in small steps and recognizing progress....... Sunday is our anniversary..... all I can say is he best come up with something good.

 

And one other positive step he has arranged for a way to make more money on Saturdays, he took my suggestion when it was like this:

 

You will find a way to work at least one Sat. a month to get control of your financial situation. If you do not do this you will suffer and it will certainly show me that you are not putting effort into resolving our issues. You will do this and you will do it now.

 

Previously I would have said " what if you do something on Sat or Sun. I can help you out if you need me to. We could even start a weekend hauling business with your truck..... pick up gravel, sand, or hell manure from the big horse farms...... or mulch"........his reply "yeah lets do that"

 

So me puts ad in for him..... calls come.... then he does not want to do it..... not his idea I guess?

[Guest]

You have a prenup? Ok thats probably one of the main things thats a downfall in the marriage right there. Your relationship seems to be alot about money. YOUR money. Yes its your choice to have a prenup but having a prenup usually says, "look I'll marry you, but whats mine is not yours, and whats yours is not mine, we are not in a marriage of one or a unity. Money usually comes before anything else with prenups, its all about the money. Plus after reading theses posts, I really think your husband simply just doesn't care. He tells you he knows he treats you bad but he does nothing to change it. How long are you going to hold on to hope, that things will change?

[a4a]

I told him: "Hey it's YOU who wants me back - YOU change. And you're so dumb for saying what you said, but even if you promised to change, I wouldn't believe you. It's over."

 

nearing that point but giving him this last chance..... but that is how I feel.

 

I think this was a funny story. And this guy was really a total loser, on a much lower level than me in every sense. Primitive Neanderthal, the lowest possible class, high-school drop-out, stupid, lazy, stubborn, chronically unemployed... didn't even like to take showers! Can you imagine him with me? He married a hair dresser and they have a son and - he is still unemployed!!!

 

Well if they had an arrangement that he takes care of the home and child I think that is ok.... as long as they are able to pay the bills and maintain the home.

 

... But I know how you feel. I've been there more than once. Being married to someone successful feels great. Being supported doesn't feel so great. I intend to make money myself, but I will always want to be with someone who makes more than me. Because I am a woman.

 

I want him to be successful for him. He was, he slipped and I guess decided he could use me until some sort of miracle (ed mcmahon) showed up.

I don't feel as though I need to be with a person that makes more money than me........ not at all. I want someone who would be willing like I am to support the other person in their ambitions. Again he does not. I want to go back to riding the circuit.... he has not helped me to attain that at all.. I want 3 years to do this with my life. My back is shot and it will get worse, time is running out. So I resent him for that. I am too busy picking up his messes to focus on me at all..... the entire relationship has been all about his needs, feelings, wants, for the last 8 months at least.

 

So you basically have three theoretical options:

 

1. To accept him the way he is and live like that.

 

I could do that but how many forks can be stuck in his head at one time?

I could stay and find some side action too?

2. To always push him to do something and hopefully have some results.

 

Doing this now with the Oct. deadline.

 

3. To find a man who is compatible with your natural needs.

Not interested in a replacement. I am so picky that there is no way it would happen.... probably end up with string of studs to ride .. but no serious interest in going back into a relationship.

 

 

 

Now I understand your avatar. It's your husband in it! :laugh

 

see that is part of the problem you actually look at him..... not my avie.. and you kinda wanna melt That bastard why can't he be fat and ugly it would be much easier to just leave then No he does have some great qualities... he just got lost and I think Walk is right..... he got me so no effort needed in his mind.

[Mz. Pixie]

I almost can't read your thread, it reminds me of my marriage so much. Brings up all these feelings of anger, resentment, feeling of being used and drained dry. I really never saw a reason to leave my marriage while i was in it.. he was a decent person. He had a lot of good things about him, things I loved about him. I agonized over it for a long while. Wondering what I wasn't saying right, or if I needed to do more, what was *I* doing wrong that was causing him to react the way he was. I blamed it on him being depressed. Blamed it on his job. Blamed it on his childhood (he had a normal childhood). I blamed everyone and everything but him.

 

Hell, I still kind of blame myself for the way the marriage went, even though I know it wasn't me. I thought if I could communicate better, that he would've understood and of course he'd want to change.... He always said he would change.. but nothing ever did. Sometimes for a day or two, but that was the extent of it.

 

I guess, what I believe happened... up until we were married, my exh knew that he could lose me. I was.. like a possesion to him. Something he valued and could lose. His friends were jealous and he liked that. His family loved me, and he liked that. It increased his self-esteem to have me. After marriage though.. he no longer feared losing me. I was bound to him by law forever. So he no longer needed to put forth effort to keep me. It was not a concious thought with him, and I would bet that he never even realized his mentality changed. But his actions did.

 

Anyway.. I feel for you. Its not an easy situation to be in, and it's emotionally and physically draining on a constant level.

 

WOW Walk- you hit the nail right on the head. It is incredibly painful for me to read your post and A's as well- because it's so familiar.

 

I don't think my ex ever thought I'd leave- that I ever could leave or that I would.

 

Sad thing is, he's remarried to someone else- and he's not changed one bit.

[a4a]

WOW Walk- you hit the nail right on the head. It is incredibly painful for me to read your post and A's as well- because it's so familiar.

 

I don't think my ex ever thought I'd leave- that I ever could leave or that I would.

 

Sad thing is, he's remarried to someone else- and he's not changed one bit.

 

 

sorry for the memory lane stroll

 

Curious how long did it take for both of your X's to start their crap after marriage? I am wondering if confronting my problem as quickly as I am will make a difference or not?

 

And if I get through this I want the title of "husband master"