A mans pov on booby staring?

[a4a]

The thing is, you may have to swallow some of your own pride. You come off as the leader of the house hold.

 

Out of curiousity, what would happen if he stood up to you?

 

Well I have no pride left.

 

Clearly someone must lead or like I stated before we would be on the street eating the govt. cheese months ago. (or he would I would live at my own home)

 

I do not dictate what he is to do...... far from it. I do not even tell him to mow the lawn, nor tell him to pick up his socks, nor to buy me a swimming pool.

 

If you have a person like this are you to what say "your the man take care of it...." and in the meantime the house is foreclosed on, the bank acct empty and no food....... or like today he bouncy bouncies a nice fat check?

 

He has no reason to stand up to me. None..... I do not scream or yell, I am not asking him some strange requests. I am quite fair in my dealings with him.

 

I do ask that he does his financial share and work towards getting rid of his debt by making decisions and taking actions that will make that happen. He has failed.

I ask that he consider my feelings and put effort into making me happy and feeling special to him from time to time. He has failed most of the time with this one. not always but mostly

I ask for a little passion from time to time. Failed

I offer my support to him. I do more than my share around here on the physical end, financial, and emotional. What does he have to stand up to me about? For crying out loud he can have a bj on demand from me

 

And we do not yell in general.... until these last few weeks..... I have lost my cool about twice a week with him. I have been disrespectful out of sheer anger/hurt..... but I also recognized it and tried to apologize immediatley.

 

My husband stated that he deserved every bit of anger and resentment I am dishing out at him. He admits his failings (that takes a lot ).

 

There is no one rule book for people to live by Moose.....you have your rules, RP has her rules, I have mine..... roles are only important to fulfill if the parties in the relationship find them to be important to fulfill. Keep in mind your role ideals are not mine nor my husbands.

 

if he stands up to me I will stab him in the head with a fruckin fork...

[Moose]

Well I have no pride left.

I refuse to believe that.

Clearly someone must lead or like I stated before we would be on the street eating the govt. cheese months ago. (or he would I would live at my own home)

Maybe that's exactly what needs to happen to turn him around?

 

He's a grown man. If he can't take care of his own responsibilities, let him reap the ramifications.

 

How is he going to learn the stove is hot if you won't let him put his hand on the burner?

if he stands up to me I will stab him in the head with a fruckin fork...

And here you said you had no pride left......

[Mz. Pixie]

Someone must lead, exactly- which is what I did for so long until I just couldn't do it anymore.

 

Perhaps Moose has a good idea here? Even though you may disagree with his religious spirit???

 

Perhaps he feels inferior A?? Have you ever considered that? Pride and respect are huge to a man and perhaps he feels that he's not respected and that you don't feel like he's capable of anything??

 

Not that he has shown that he is- but I'm just saying.

 

If he steps up to the plate in the smallest way- you are going to have to praise him rather than find fault with it. Do you think you're capable of that??

 

You guys do not communicate well so I really fear that the issues will be solved without some type of counseling but that's just my opinion.

 

As far as resentment goes?? That something that must be put aside or you can't move forward but it's a huge obstacle to get past as well. Maybe you guys could agree to start fresh- him as well. That means he has no preconceived notions of what you're to do around the house- and you have none of him as well..........and no throwing up to each other what's been done in the past.

 

Do you think you could do that?

[a4a]

Someone must lead, exactly- which is what I did for so long until I just couldn't do it anymore.

 

Perhaps Moose has a good idea here? Even though you may disagree with his religious spirit???

 

Perhaps he feels inferior A?? Have you ever considered that? Pride and respect are huge to a man and perhaps he feels that he's not respected and that you don't feel like he's capable of anything??

 

Not that he has shown that he is- but I'm just saying.

 

If he steps up to the plate in the smallest way- you are going to have to praise him rather than find fault with it. Do you think you're capable of that??

 

You guys do not communicate well so I really fear that the issues will be solved without some type of counseling but that's just my opinion.

 

As far as resentment goes?? That something that must be put aside or you can't move forward but it's a huge obstacle to get past as well. Maybe you guys could agree to start fresh- him as well. That means he has no preconceived notions of what you're to do around the house- and you have none of him as well..........and no throwing up to each other what's been done in the past.

 

Do you think you could do that?

 

Why do I feel the sudden need to defend myself? Oh that is right because I am a stupid woman.... Of course his pride is hurt... he fell on his face.

Again though I cannot fix him. I have tried and that is what I said last night AGAIN..... I am not your therapist, I am not able to solve your problems, I cannot make you all better. You have to.

 

He makes me feel stupid...... like the gas incident with the truck.... would not listen.... I am just stupid, don't know jack, stupid me. Like with money...... yep don't know jack about that either..... yeppers...... that is why I have money and no debt and he is up ****s creek without a paddle..... yep I am stupid.

 

I do have a hard time letting him fall on his face. Of course. If it was not for me this house would get foreclosed on. The front lawn has 10" spikey grass on it..... I am letting him fall on his face..... but you see he is not fixing it still.... for 8 months I have asked him to address these issues in a kind and supportive way.... I lost it with the tater post v-day..... yep.... and I have really lost it now.

 

I am not like this (as I post) as I am in RL.... I do not mistreat him, recent disrespectful comments yes....but I do not disrespect him. Far from it.

I think I may have created the monster... doing it all. Or the monster just took advantage of me. I tell him everyday how great he is.... smart, good looking, sexy, capable, kind,....... the whole ball of wax. I am far from evil or a bitch.

 

I think things will resolve.... if I can let go of this anger and if he can step up to the plate. So I will do my best to stick to the Oct. deadline. But I am on a break right now from life.... 5 more days I refuse to even get the mail or I feel obligated to pay his bills. He agrees that I need it and have earned my shut down time.

 

The man basically quit his job for 2 months and played in his woodshop....and he says I don't know how all this happened now I have thousands of dollars tied up in this property too.... what do I do let it go to crap? He needed $400 today..... I told him I don't have it. I do but I don't.... I have things I have to pay for.

 

I need to learn to let go of this anger and it is quite difficult.....the stupidest things are setting me off... like his horse dvds.... he can buy those to better his relationship with his horse but cannot get me a birthday gift

although he has not used the dvds in a long time...it is the effort, not the gift itself.....but see the stupid things that are now setting me off.......highly unusual behavior on my part.

I typically do not project my anger at another target nor allow trival things to set me off.... it is illogical to do so. It serves no purpose nor me.

 

Waiting for progress from him is a daunting task as well as one that could cost me financially. Venting is a good coping mechanism.... so is humor.

 

Stab that bastard in the head with a fork. horse dvds.... ummm hummm.

 

I got your horse dvds.....

 

If you keep getting kicked in the shins you have a choice to move or kick the hell back..... I am in the middle of that decision.....so my disrespectful rants are much needed and well deserved IMHO.......not like I am telling him his a pos 24/7 just a couple times in the last past few weeks. and it is not like I call up his buddies and spread the news......or his coworkers..... so for crying out loud respect my right to rant.

[a4a]

btw pixie I was not addressing that at you.

 

I just am so sick of being told that he comes first....... what I need to do to fix this. His little pride and his little ego.....his man inside needs to be nurtured his man inside needs to grow some balls and grow up!

 

well wtf about me?

 

You know I am sitting her with yesterdays hair, wearing my house scrubs big ole baggy shirt.... I ran up to the corner and got myself a pack of smokes..... and the rather well to do owner of that location was all over me..... where have you been? what have you been doing? blah blah blah blah....... is your truck still for sale?

 

see even in my crappiest state of mind and my crappiest unkempt look I still am hot..... too friggin bad my H cannot value me in even that dept.

 

I honestly am starting to think he needs a little lesson in this dept..... a little burn.

 

Perhaps I need to become the town tart :lmao:

[JamesM]

a4a, I feel for you. I do not understand your relationship completely, but I can see that you are frustrated. Your husband obviously does, too.

 

I wonder if in a conversation with him...if he knows exactly what to do to make you happy. Truthfully, I would like to ask him.

 

You mention that he is so kindhearted to everyone from a turtle to an unknown immigrant...yet he isn't considerate to you...why?

 

Do you give him many ultimatums? Or do you imply dissatisfaction with his lack of consideration for you? Or do you have constructive conversatons with him?

 

From many of your threads, I hear not only alot of anger, but incredible sadness that his lack of consideration (special and thoughtful gifts, wanting to spend time with you, etc.) means he doesn't love you. I think this is what this all boils down to....could I be right?

 

What do you want his role to be in the marriage? What it should be and what you want it to be are two drastically different thing...in fact your desire may be first. What do you view your role as? And what do you think HE views it as?

 

On two slightly different notes...one serious, one humorous...or an attempt to be humorous...

 

Serious. From your many posts here and in other "departments" I can see that you not only don't believe there is a God, but you resent anyone who thinks there is. As you know, I do believe there is. I have quit posting in the Spirituality Board, because my main motive here is to gain insight for my relationships and hopefully give some insight...it is not to argue with those who have different views. When I posted there, I found that in other areas, some posters now took my thoughts as from a religious person rather from a person with similar problems. I find this understandable yet sad. Personally, I have gained ALOT of great advice from many here whom I totally disagree with religiously, but I can separate these two areas. I believe this is how it should be.

 

Not so serious.. I am with RP....your avatar paints you as an angry, lazy, overweight, "who gives a s***" type of person. I know you also won't change because I gave my insight, but it DOES give an image of you. Thanks for listening.

 

Please take this all as an attempt to help you. I truly would like you to be happy..as I think most if not all do.

[a4a]

a4a, I feel for you. I do not understand your relationship completely, but I can see that you are frustrated. Your husband obviously does, too.

 

I wonder if in a conversation with him...if he knows exactly what to do to make you happy. Truthfully, I would like to ask him.

 

You mention that he is so kindhearted to everyone from a turtle to an unknown immigrant...yet he isn't considerate to you...why?

 

Do you give him many ultimatums? Or do you imply dissatisfaction with his lack of consideration for you? Or do you have constructive conversatons with him?

From many of your threads, I hear not only alot of anger, but incredible sadness that his lack of consideration (special and thoughtful gifts, wanting to spend time with you, etc.) means he doesn't love you. I think this is what this all boils down to....could I be right?

 

 

What do you want his role to be in the marriage? What it should be and what you want it to be are two drastically different thing...in fact your desire may be first. What do you view your role as? And what do you think HE views it as?

 

On two slightly different notes...one serious, one humorous...or an attempt to be humorous...

 

Serious. From your many posts here and in other "departments" I can see that you not only don't believe there is a God, but you resent anyone who thinks there is. As you know, I do believe there is. I have quit posting in the Spirituality Board, because my main motive here is to gain insight for my relationships and hopefully give some insight...it is not to argue with those who have different views. When I posted there, I found that in other areas, some posters now took my thoughts as from a religious person rather from a person with similar problems. I find this understandable yet sad. Personally, I have gained ALOT of great advice from many here whom I totally disagree with religiously, but I can separate these two areas. I believe this is how it should be.

 

Not so serious.. I am with RP....your avatar paints you as an angry, lazy, overweight, "who gives a s***" type of person. I know you also won't change because I gave my insight, but it DOES give an image of you. Thanks for listening.

 

Please take this all as an attempt to help you. I truly would like you to be happy..as I think most if not all do.

 

wow see that was quite a powerful bunch of words James... and hell my bestfriend is a Bapist ...she quit going to church but she says to me with her advice " I know you don't believe in god, but......" she even got me a st. anthony idol for the truck so it would sell..... it is in the truck.... what the hell do I have to lose by putting it there right? It is not your belief that I reject it is if you attempt to force it on me and use it to treat me as a lesser being....... I am not. Not saying you specifically just in general how it goes typically.

 

Now your post is a doozy..... man maybe you should call him and ask him... I tell ya it is tempting offer, if that is what it was.......

 

I will attempt to answer as I think it will be helpful. I know I am far far from perfect. Hell I learn from my mistakes too. But right now I am just empty. It is effecting my work.... my lifes work which is my personal salvation... reason to get up in the morning..... and that is sacred to me.

 

As for my avatar.. well I caught some flak for being cute and for my shallow desires in a partner comments........anyway it is just an avatar... isn't better than my dog humping donkey one? sheesh peeps.... it is just an avatar.... it is not really me It made me laugh so hard when it was emailed to me..... and some may get attention from hot avatars... well hell mine gets more :lmao: your all just jealous!!!

[RecordProducer]

Hope you're writing that list for me. In the meanwhile I will write my observations about men in general - men who are good in their nature, but are victims of their own faults and a little bit retarded when it comes to doing the right thing for us.

 

They insist on the fact that they don't have the ESP to read our minds. Now the average sensitive woman would ask: well do you really need me to remind you that you have to buy me a present for my birthday? Same with a million other things. As ridiculous as it is, they are completely oblivious of many things simply because nobody ever taught them thoroughly that they need to do them. So you need to finish doing his mother's job and shape him the way that suits you.

 

You are still frustrated, because you want to be married to an equal, not to a child that you need to raise. But here is our (yours, mine, and many women's) biggest illusion - that we married our knights and they will treat us like queens for the rest of our lives. We refer to the dating period as the standard that was set and needs to be kept, rather than as an exception of the rule, when they were going out of their way to conquer us. You feel deceived or you question your judgments and ability to estimate people correctly. Once you get married, things become comfortable and everyone's faults surface.

 

If my husband did half the things that my children did to me, I would consider him an idiot (e.g. "why do WE always have to clean our toys and not you, mom?") But they are children and we understand that we need to explain to them what's right and what's wrong. We give our husbands too much credit for their perfect-spousal-behavior knowledge. Hence the "Are you retarded?" question.

 

They are retarded. OK? Consider him retarded and start from zero. He knows nothing about how he should behave and if he happens to know something, that's a plus and be nicely surprised. He has all the qualities of a good husband: intelligent, kind, loves you, etc. But he doesn't have all the good manners or he is not showing enough affection or he disregards your feelings or he does or says something stupid. But not everything about him is so wrong, isn't it?

 

You are here to teach him how to treat you. Imagine that you had a magic wand and could create a superman that would be exactly as you want him to be. Well it wouldn't be fun. You want the challenge too, you don't want him to do exactly what you imagine in your head or say things according to a written scenario. Well you won't find superman in his pure form without any side effects.

 

I just realized all these things this morning and decided to bite my pride and tell my husband that I love him and when he is doing this and that to me, it's hurting me because of this and that. First I gave myself a few days to let my piss-off fade out a little then I decided to be the adult in the relationship (although he was already an adult while I was still in diapers) and approached him in a friendly way.

 

All the things that I criticize him about get corrected by him when I show love again. As insensitive as they are, they respond to love directly proportionally. When they are good, they are great; but when they are bad, they are unbearable. Does that sound familiar to you? When I yell at my husband, no matter how much sense I make, he withdraws, ignores me, and feels abused. And when I approach him nicely, he makes changes with ease. Their ultimate goal is to make us happy and they feel very low when we let them know that they have failed in that department.

 

Your husband told you that he was perfectly happy with your marriage and loves you very much. Then you attack him (my husband says "like a bunch of locusts" ) with your complaints, demands, and despair about his whole being and everything that he represents. He gets confused, doesn't know where you're coming from; figures it's better for him to shut up and hide in his shell (like my husband) or admit that he is doing something very wrong (like your husband), but I assure you both of them have no clue whatsoever why the hell they are attacked and what we want from them.

 

They don't ask what they did so wrong, because we explained to them a million times and they still don't understand. And if they admit they don't understand then we attack them with the "How come you don't understand?! Are you retarded?"

 

The bad news is: they are retarded (according to our standards). And you can talk as much as you want, but that won't un-retard them permanently. But the good news is: just tell him what you expect from him and he will do it. Perhaps it will take a few times, but eventually it will work.

 

If we had the patience and wisdom to skip the long, frustrating fights, insults, explanations, and anger and just tell them what to do, we would save us both a lot of nerves. You won't find a man who will know the whole scenario of a good relationship by heart. They are all perfect on paper. I had a BF who was very understanding and smart in conversations, but applied very little of that in practice. All these men here would tell you "I would..." or "I would never...". Make sure that they drive their wives crazy in their own unique, creative way.

 

The reason why we are so perfect is because they don't nag to us so it seems like we never make any mistakes and they make them all the time. My husband told me: "If I gave you a hard time about all the things that bother me, like you give ME a hard time about all the things that bother you, I'm sure you wouldn't like it." And I can tell ya, we're lucky that we don't have one of those grumpy, moody husbands who nag and criticize everything that their wives do, say or think.

 

When you go to a restaurant and they bring you a meal that you're not content with, at first you're disappointed and swear your foot won't step into that restaurant anymore. But since you're already there, you complain nicely, but firmly and they bring you another meal - hopefully better. The next time they mess up some other meal, but if you keep coming to the restaurant and instruct them on how to prepare your meals (yeah, do you really have to teach the chef?), eventually they will learn your wishes and fulfill them. And then you will be content with the restaurant.

 

Men (and women) complain that they don't get a manual with their spouse; well you can write your own manual on how to operate a4a. And men have only one button - be good them and they will love you forever. I swear to myself every day that I'll never start a fight again and I can't keep my word.

 

You are very angry right now and first you need to calm yourself down and stop working yourself up against him. Next you need to take charge of the situation and talk to him, like an adult with a child, and tell him what you expect from him in the future, all that in a friendly and loving way, with the inevitable statements of how much you love him, how lucky you are to have him (stop rolling your eyes!), and what a wonderful person and husband he is.

 

Stop with the divorce BS please. Once you're ready for a divorce, you don't threaten and cry; you pack your bags and slam the door behind you. Those threats leave unnecessary scars and make the other party insecure in the relationship. It's an emotional blackmail and thus qualifies for abuse. Don't mention the D word unless you are actually ready to leave.

 

What you need to do now is to get yourself out of that miserable emotional state you are in. You want him to approach you first and he seems like he doesn't care. But you will see that he does care big time. Talk to him and resolve things for tonight. Suggest that you discuss all issues nicely later this week and for now bury the axes. Everything will be your way with a little patience and faith. See, religious people take this faith from god and their beliefs, but we have to create it on our own with our bare hearts.

 

Your long-term goal is to make your marriage work. It's easy to break things, my kids can do that, too. It's hard to make things work. But you can do it. You think you're a tough woman, but you're just a woman before everything else - a vulnerable woman who loves her man and needs his love in return.

 

Our emotional needs shouldn't be imposed as a rule that our husbands had to know before they married us. It's only the two of you who create your own rules. If you want your needs fulfilled, teach him how.

[a4a]

a4a, I feel for you. I do not understand your relationship completely, but I can see that you are frustrated. Your husband obviously does, too.

 

yes finally he does, but much damage is done.

 

I wonder if in a conversation with him...if he knows exactly what to do to make you happy. Truthfully, I would like to ask him.

He actually does know. He is on the phone now and I am asking these questions......be romantic, more considerate, show that he cares.

 

You mention that he is so kindhearted to everyone from a turtle to an unknown immigrant...yet he isn't considerate to you...why?

He feels the desire to do that but.......he just does not do it, he does not know why he does not do it. (quote via him)

 

Do you give him many ultimatums?

 

I did in May and now he set the OCT 31st date..... so no IMHO no. His opinion: he does not like it. He does not want it to happen any more. He understand it is used to break his thought process.

 

 

Or do you imply dissatisfaction with his lack of consideration for you?

No implications......

no I am to the point.

 

 

Or do you have constructive conversatons with him?

He says yes, most definitly.

Until recently when I have flown off the handle, which he deserved... he knows I am right but does not know how to react... he already knows he is wrong so has nothing to say.

 

From many of your threads, I hear not only alot of anger, but incredible sadness that his lack of consideration (special and thoughtful gifts, wanting to spend time with you, etc.) means he doesn't love you. I think this is what this all boils down to....could I be right?

 

He says of course he loves me he loves very much. He is unable to process his thoughts and think of creative things to show me...... (I do not know what this means, his words) my unhappiness leads to his...... my good mood leads to him being happy.

 

Do I feel loved......hell no how could I?

What do you want his role to be in the marriage?

 

me ...... friend, partner, lover, teammate, support if needed.

 

What it should be and what you want it to be are two drastically different thing...in fact your desire may be first.

 

I don't think I am out of line.

 

What do you view your role as?

 

right now I feel like I am being used and devalued..... so servant. But typically I should be what I listed above to him...... plus his biggest fan.

 

And what do you think HE views it as?

 

to love him, that I need and want him, share and do things, go places,

partner not just a wife, not looking for june cleaver ( ). trust him, confidence in him, be my hero in a non fairytale way.

 

 

So there you have it from the horses mouth..... he has to hang up he is getting a cow off the road... ... I am not kidding... public safety issue.

 

Man all we do is round up stray livestock.... it has been like a storm of them lately..... sheesh.

[Touche]

Ok, you know I'm a fan of yours, A. You know I admire you. What can I say? The man is NOT compatible with you. He just isn't. You can try to twist and mold and do whatever you want with him but you will never be happy with the way he is.

 

For whatever reason, he changed...or he was never really the man you thought he was. I've been there and done that myself.

 

I've loved a man with my entire being (my ex husband) and it was STILL not good enough. I knew that. I recognized it and cut my losses.

 

I'm afraid you're at that point...cut your losses.

[MrsHellFire]

Stated it could be taken as a compliment and he was not worried about the other man making such comments to me or staring.......

 

wtf is this?

 

MAYBE because he has total TRUST in YOU! Is that a bad thing? Of course he wouldn't be mad if he knew you would never take them up on any offers.

I'm sure he sees it as a compliment to himself as well.. that he's bagged such a cute woman.

[quankanne]

the more you share, A, the more it becomes clear to me that your husband – while he loves you dearly – has no idea how to deal with a wife who possesses this kind of inner strength, so he's slipped into habits that seem unsupportive, insconsiderate and unloving of you. And that's a pisser.

 

the retreat i referred to (a counselling type of weekend but without dealing with the middle man) is a possible way to clear the air about how to communicate and to give you a level ground for your relationship. I know Marriage Builders has been touted a lot on this site, and I imagine it has a lot of the same good tools for couples to work with, but without the spiritual aspect, so you don't have to feel uncomfortable ... it's definitely worth looking over, especially because even though you're venting, it sounds like you're taking your marriage very, very seriously.

 

as much as he may dread bringing in this kind of program (or even a counsellor), it may be the only way for the two of you to come to terms (especially him) with what's going on in your relationship AND figure out how to build a better marriage.

 

best of luck with your little mule – RP has it right on the money when she says that sometimes, wives have to step into a mommy role to let their husbands know what is expected of them. (great response, RP)

[Becoming]

a4a--I know how badly this hurts, how much it affects your self-esteem and undermines your sanity.

 

Honestly, I think he feels powerless, which is the reason behind the passive aggressivness. It's nothing personal. It's not about you. It's his problem.

He's not choosing life. Like Bartleby, the Scrivener (Herman Melville story), he simply prefers not to do anything. I don't think it's malevolent. I just thing he's clueless.

 

Here's the thing I see that I know marriage brings out of all of us. We are all little kids when it comes to LTR. Intimacy requires knowing the other will take care of us, protect us when we're unable to that for ourselves. And your little kid isn't getting that from him because his little kid is relating to you as the Mommy he never had but wants.

 

But, of course, you're both big people now and know these are not rational, so these feelings are unacceptable and regressed. But they are still operative.

 

I know this because I have lived it. The dangling steak analogy is one I've used, too. After 25 years my H started to wake up and get it, and it had nothing to do with me. It had to do with him becoming a self-reflective person. Honestly, if it hadn't been for the kids, I would have walked long ago because no one was here. He wasn't, and I turned into a walking zombie, too, as a result.

 

Your H doesn't sound too self-reflective. I think he's balking at therapy because at some deep level he's afraid of all those old emotions surrounding his Mom's death. But you are providing him with an opportunity to become an empowered man, not a helpless child. And this is exactly what this type needs according to Living with a Passive Aggressive Man. These guys are wonderful and horribly complicated at the same time.

 

You have more on the ball than him emotionally because you're self-reflective, even though you try to hide your pain from others and perhaps? yourself? because, after all, you have lots of responsibilities which require this. And maybe (I'm gonna dance over the line perhaps here, so forbear) focusing on what he doesn't do allows you to escape looking at your own pain and anxiety that his behavior kicks up in you--the betrayal and abandonment you've experienced before and have built an entire empowered life to stay away from, but which is now coming back up. And that is scary.

 

My H is as kind and caring toward others as the day is long. I might as well have been a coffee table, and with my background, that neglect is abusive. You're right about that--that's how it's abusive to you, too. He's hitting you with . . . nothing, and nothing is a powerful negative force, a black hole you're being sucked into.

 

I agree with MzP. And I agree that you're gonna need to have your bags packed and be ready to go. He's not capable of deciding well, so you're gonna have to do it for him. And if he doesn't get help, you don't stand a chance anyway. So you might as well go.

 

But, yes, moving is crap. But so is where you are now. I see him trying to meet the letter of the law but denying the spirit thereof in a desperate attempt to keep you, unaware that what will keep you is him stepping up to the plate and investing himself in you, your marriage, and life in general.

 

What you're going through is really really hard. And it's not you and anything you did, but he'll try to twist it around so he subtly makes you think so.

 

Honestly, I hate self-help books. Huge waste of time and $$ but I re-read Living with a Passive Aggressive Man by Scott Wetzle (?) because it tells you how to spot their tricks and how to handle them. Once I started these techniques, things started improving.

[a4a]

Ok, you know I'm a fan of yours, A. You know I admire you. What can I say? The man is NOT compatible with you. He just isn't. You can try to twist and mold and do whatever you want with him but you will never be happy with the way he is.

 

For whatever reason, he changed...or he was never really the man you thought he was. I've been there and done that myself.

 

I've loved a man with my entire being (my ex husband) and it was STILL not good enough. I knew that. I recognized it and cut my losses.

 

I'm afraid you're at that point...cut your losses.

 

 

I think you are telling me to shoot this horse without good cause. He is indeed a rare man. He has all those qualities that are wanted by me along with the hot factor.... he is in a rut as he says. He was raised by an exceptional father that instilled great qualities in him. He is by far one of the most honorable people I have ever met. He certainly has made me realize that I need to grow in many areas myself. There is not one shady thing about this man.

 

If he was stating that he did not care, or he denied that his treatment of me was not what he should be doing..... I would shoot the horse. I truly believe he needs time and he needs to figure out where he is right now.

 

He is a very rare find. Too good to just chuck away if indeed he is just in a rut and is making the steps to pull himself out. I would not do that to a friend and I will not do so quickly to him as I did give my word that we would help and support each other in our life together.

[Guest]

Maybe your expectations are set to way to high and no matter who you have in your life, him or someone else, you will never be really happy. You will find fault in everything others do becasue they don't meet up to your standards.

[Touche]

"I think you are telling me to shoot this horse without good cause."

 

No, A. That's not what I'm saying. Good cause? What's good cause? Good cause to me is if the bad outweighs the good. Maybe I've gotten the wrong impression and the good actually outweighs the bad points you've stated on here. If that's the case, then of course you should stay and give him time.

 

We all just want YOU to be happy and if staying with him is making you miserable, then you shouldn't stay. That's all I was saying.

 

As far as his character, I did not question that. I have no doubt that he's a good man. So was my ex. We just weren't compatible. Didn't make him a bad person though.

 

I never meant to put your H down in ANY way. I was just questioning whether you were truly compatible...whether you will really be happy with him in the long run.

 

It sounds like I got it all wrong. I'm sorry.

 

Do what's right for you.

[a4a]

Here's the thing I see that I know marriage brings out of all of us. We are all little kids when it comes to LTR. Intimacy requires knowing the other will take care of us, protect us when we're unable to that for ourselves. And your little kid isn't getting that from him because his little kid is relating to you as the Mommy he never had but wants.

 

.

 

You know for some this may be true.... for me no.... for him no.

 

So what if his mother died..... he agrees...... she died..... we all die....... it is part of life. His dad died too..... yep..... so what.... and he will die.... and I will die... we all die...... it happens no choice no sense in fighting it you have to accept it and put it into a perspective that you know that is just the way it is.

 

The grief is way over for him.... sure it would be nice if his mom was here but she is not..... again no sense in beating a dead horse..... she is dead. So no sense in going insane about it........... I think the frucking movies and books about the undying love and other the other crap that we as a society cling too is quite harmful.... you are supposed to destroy what little time you have to live on this earth because someone you love dies? Hell I think people expect you to feel this way and you are labeled a monster if you don't.

 

We have discussed this at length way at the start of our relationship. He remembers his mother fondly, what he does remember, he of course was very close to his father. But not every person in the world has deep traumatic scars from the death of a loved one.... hell not even from abuse.. as it is all relative to each individual. And to add to that; if you let it own you of course it will ruin you.

 

Think about it. All people are different, they react differently because their experiences are different. There may be a line of expected response but I think that line of response has been so strewn all over the place because of the need to blame or find cause that half the expected responses are pure and utter self serving BS excuses. My mommy forgot to get me a dolly so now I need to have a collection of dolls..... come on some of the crap I see and read is so far out there it is idiotic...... not all but a good amount.

 

I nor he believe for one second that chatting about his dead mother, or his rusty rollerskate that disappeared when he was 8 is going to help his current situation. He has no fear or hidden feeling about his dead mother.....or his rollerskate. I mean if your arm got cut off .......how long do you plan to cry about it? Sure it is upsetting, out of your control. After 30 years you stop crying about it.... you accept it.

 

You can allow your past to rule you or you can master today......choice.

 

I am not saying those that think or want to mull over the past with a magnifying glass are wrong.... all people deal with things differently.

 

And quite honestly although I have asked, threatened, suggested that he go to therapy, for him it would be an utter waste of time. I see that clearly now without his influence on me. Hell I would probably laugh myself if I attended. Perhaps since such "trauma" happened to both of us at a younger age we learned that we can deal with further trauma (i do not consider my life traumatic at all, nor does he) in a easier manner than many others can.

 

The man was fine until his job/friendship got screwed up..... lost his footing.... and after our long talks it is obvious he is in a rut. I am still angry, I still hold resentment towards him...... hell that is normal. You get kicked you get angry or run away right? I am not a runner. He is not a runner. He sees he is in a rut and needs to deal with it.... chatting about feelings ain't gonna pay the mortgage, and the money is his major issue. Money problems sacked his self esteem......stressed and pressured. I however need to let him deal with it..... I have known this for more than a year, but I refuse to let my investments go down the toilet because of his pride or need to bolster his self esteem by doing it himself. I do not treat him like a child..... nor will I. That by far would be much more damaging for both parties... It is not my job to train him, it is my choice to let him know what I want (done), and it is my choice to stay or go if he fails or succeeds. I have far too much respect to play games with him as suggested......he is not a child, he is a grown man who is responsible for his own actions and decisions........see I do not coddle him.

 

There have been a series of events that are from outside sources that continue to throw him into this rut. He needs to man up and deal with this and continue to move forward...... he stalled under pressure. I can see where he is at now.... the guy is being bombarded by rocks, his neglect of me is not excuseable because of it. He agrees. In conclusion he states he is taking the tiger by the tail and he will indeed grow some larger balls to deal with things and he will put his best effort forward to return to his old self and a improved self in his treatment toward me...... I in return will allow him that chance, and try to curb my anger. (how is that for a start to a happy conclusion..... thanks to many of you too)

 

I see no sense in bringing in a third party to actually screw this progress up. Nor does he.... we have watched and read several different marriage advice shows and online information...... the TV shows were a joke..... we both laughed our asses off at them..one was "save your marriage in one week" ... some reading material does apply in general ways... but no matter what when you involve a third person their personality comes into play IMHO..... of course this is where you ask the shrink...... What should I do? and the good shrink says: What do you want to do?

 

I think a good shrink is a catalyst to force examination of what you want and why you want it......blah blah blah.......

 

This board actually IMHO is a great resource for exploration in such matters... the occassional kick in the pants, learning to see things from many points of view, seeing the outcome of others actions and decisions, and the ability to actually debate ideas or thoughts......... you cannot get that with one person who maybe has so many problems themselves they are using your situation to solve there own or validate their own situation..... or they think every thing must fit into the parameters they know instead of the ones that suit you.

 

Now for some that are not me, are not my H that need a good catalyst to help open doors...... yes..... by all means do it!

 

Like my H said....... I know what I have to do, I just have to do it. We don't see the point into months of figuring out why he did not do it, we already know the cause of the rut, how to get out is the question..... and drawing pictures, talking about it is not going to make it happen...... it just has to be done.

Like jumping out of a plane....just do it.

 

Now I have to set aside my pissy ass anger that pops up from time to time.... I have to forgive him and trust that he will stick to his word. If he does not, and cannot jump from the plane in a timely manner... then I am indeed out the door.

 

Quite a challenge eh? A matter of choosing to and doing a 180 for both of us

[Mz. Pixie]

"I think you are telling me to shoot this horse without good cause."

 

No, A. That's not what I'm saying. Good cause? What's good cause? Good cause to me is if the bad outweighs the good. Maybe I've gotten the wrong impression and the good actually outweighs the bad points you've stated on here. If that's the case, then of course you should stay and give him time.

 

We all just want YOU to be happy and if staying with him is making you miserable, then you shouldn't stay. That's all I was saying.

 

As far as his character, I did not question that. I have no doubt that he's a good man. So was my ex. We just weren't compatible. Didn't make him a bad person though.

 

I never meant to put your H down in ANY way. I was just questioning whether you were truly compatible...whether you will really be happy with him in the long run.

 

It sounds like I got it all wrong. I'm sorry.

 

Do what's right for you.

 

Ditto what T is saying here. My ex wasn't a bad person either. We just had different ideas of what a marriage was about.

 

We care about you. We're trying to help but when you come out and tell us this stuff about him- and he's not here to state his opinion- then we can only go by what you say. Not trying to bash him- just stating what we feel by what you've posted.

 

The two things that worry me- #1- that he knows you have needs that he's not meeting and he's not willing to go to the ends of the earth to meet them or find out how to- and you guys have been together a short period of time too. #2- the money issue. It seems he's getting a free ride and almost in a sense using you. (Don't slam me- )

 

I have no doubt he's a good person deep down but that doesn't make a good husband.

 

I wasn't blaming you for him being this way- in any way. At all and I hope that my post didn't come across that way.

 

I want to venture out and say something. I hope you can accept it as honest and in the manner in which I'm posting it-

 

(prepares to be screamed at)

 

I think that you may be woman who needs alot of attention. I know that you don't feel that you are- and for a long time I didn't feel that I was either. I'm not saying you're demanding to your H- so don't mistake that. I'm saying that you require a high level of attention from your mate. I can tell because you've pointed out a couple of times that guys hit on you regularly. I'm not saying you're vain at all- but they hit on you and you notice it.

 

I understand this, completely, because I'm that way too. It's not in your system to be with someone who doesn't do these small things for you. You're a giver by nature and as such you have high expectations of what you expect from a partner. And, when you don't get it, you feel that it's a deep personal slight. You have high expectations for yourself- you work hard-you strive for excellence in your business and personal life. There is nothing wrong with that.

 

I think you're also a fixer. You like to fix other people's problems- and you love animals. Probably take in alot of strays?? Do you think that perhaps you saw him as a bit of a project or that you wanted to help him in some way??

 

I don't think you're asking too much from this guy- he should be able to do these things and want to do them.

 

I fully accept that I'm this way- and I told my H as much before we married. I told him I'd settled for less than I deserved before- and that I knew I was a kick ass wife-and a guy would be lucky to have me. Being as such though I expected alot from my partner as well- and was he prepared to give that? He accepted the challenge.

 

I'm wondering- at all during your courtship did he treat you the way you want to be treated? And if not, why get married??

[a4a]

Maybe your expectations are set to way to high and no matter who you have in your life, him or someone else, you will never be really happy. You will find fault in everything others do becasue they don't meet up to your standards.

 

LMAO!!! I missed this one.

 

oh your right I need to have expectations that others think I should......

 

baaaa baaaa baaaaa...... cookie cutter sheeple rules.

 

so if my friend lets her husband screw the maid that should be my expectation of my husband? But hell if my friend like her H screwin' the maid I honestly feel more power to her. He is not my husband.

 

I have very little in expectations of my husband.... nor do I expect perfection..... effort is expected. An outrageous expectation would be for him to leave work and come home and rub my feet cuz I just feel I want that at this moment..... I don't really think expecting him to provide me with what I desire from him, that is easily attainable for him, to be a high expectation......unless of course he is a comatose vegetable that could put a damper on his ability to put effort into things

 

Ah, birthday card is a high expectation...... and it is not the birthday card it is making the effort to state that he cares regardless of what friggin day of the week it is.

 

This is what I want..... not what another person wants for their birthday

 

Good example is Touche wants lobster for her birthday served at home.... not any big surprise or any gifts.....just that lobster..... good for her.

 

I don't want a lobster for my birthday, I probably would like to go out... but hell I would be happy with a fishstick with a candle in it at home at this point

 

Point being just because your desire is not mine does not make mine to be of a higher expectation or lower expectation than yours... it is mine.

[Guest]

It is good you can laugh about things. I wasn't meaning that in an ugly way. You have stated you don't have high expectations, and thats fine. Its just no telling then what it is thats going on with him. Its probably a mixture of things. Hope all works out for you.

[Becoming]

For clarification--I'm not saying that any of these old issues are conscious. To accept that they are operative makes them conscious and dissipates their subversive power.

 

We all have a history that follows us, like it or not. Many of us want to throw that past in the closet or trash it and never look at it again. I did. But our past is always there, whether we choose to see it or not. If we refuse to see it, it will run the show, all subconsciously while we protest, "I dealt with all that before; it's not an issue." Like it or not, our past is a part of us that we can't excise. We can choose to look at those feelings and learn their subversive ways when we have refused to admit them into our life and they go guerilla on us. Then we can deal with them rationally. But not letting the feelings of vulnerability and fear and betrayal be and be known in anything other than report mode, doesn't help you and your H see what's going on at a level that's invisible to you. It's when you share honestly from your depths that you're good, right?

 

But right now your depth is deeper than his. He's perplexed by what's going on to make him act like this. He may not be letting you know what's really going on at a deep feeling level because he just doesn't know; he's that far subconscious.

 

You're wanting him to take care of you (for good reason!), but he needs you to take care of him first in this case. Which means you've got to get him awake and alive one way or another in order to get anything of what you want from him. Until he's aware of his own feelings and how they're operant, you're going to continue to play out this scenario ad infinitum. This I know from years of experience with my otherwise wonderful H, too.

 

You scoff at therapy, resist seeing therapists who can help us rationally deal with feelings we don't want to have that nonetheless sabotage our lives. And I understand all that. I lived it. And I know that strategy doesn't work.

 

I see the vulnerable a4a peeking out to see if it's safe to share here (which she needs to do because it isn't safe or appropriate to do so IRL) but it's like there are two layers to you--the vulnerable person in need (as we all are! but which you don't seem to like (who does?)) and then this witty, intelligent sarcastic Bouncer intent upon keeping others from seeing or helping that vulnerability.

 

And you're in a real pickle aren't you because you need someone--something you probably hate to admit? Someone to help you fix H because you need him to want you. Which I think is what MzP is getting at with the desire for attention. (?) It's deeper than a superficial "Buy me something!" girlie girl thing. You want the man you want, the love of your life, to want you. And him not doing that feels too familiar and bad and scary--so scary you want to run from it like you did before. No wonder. I think he's got to understand this about you if he doesn't. This really is a matter of life and death for your soul, as you've indicated here. You simply cannot stay in such a situation.

 

But he's got his own issues that are running the show and sabotaging your marriage that he needs to deal with. Cause if he doesn't: lather rinse repeat.

 

Why is his discomfort at going the therapy more important than your discomfort? Why are you protecting his feelings at the expense of your own?

 

You're a capable, wonderful human being in pain. And we don't want to have to euthanize you. :eek:

[a4a]

Ditto what T is saying here. My ex wasn't a bad person either. We just had different ideas of what a marriage was about.

 

We actually have very similar ideas of what marriage/relationship should be. If not we not have ever bothered... I have high standards. Respect, honor, values are all very similar.... how we spend our daily life....he is not one of the "boys", he is a private stay at home kinda person more like me. I am more intense in my approach to problems..... deal with it, get it over with.

 

We care about you. We're trying to help but when you come out and tell us this stuff about him- and he's not here to state his opinion- then we can only go by what you say. Not trying to bash him- just stating what we feel by what you've posted.

I know, and I truly appreciate the input the effort.... I so do!!! thank you!!! But as I keep posting I am angry, I am frustrated, I am pissed!!! So at this point he cannot even look at me without my anger popping up (which is my demon to deal with now). He so frucked up! ........ boy he has...... yep....... he is now aware....... very aware.... I unfortunatley may be making him more aware than needed.

 

The two things that worry me- #1- that he knows you have needs that he's not meeting and he's not willing to go to the ends of the earth to meet them or find out how to- and you guys have been together a short period of time too. #2- the money issue. It seems he's getting a free ride and almost in a sense using you. (Don't slam me- )

 

See he used to do such things for me, and he does do things for me. But the big things he misses out on even though he knows.........again he is aware he admits to it, he is aware of the consquences if he does not return to his old self and improve beyond that.

 

Money issues........ not my problem any more. I think he was relying on me too much to solve his problems. But hell I have done just as much in different ways for strangers. I am done. (keep in mind that I still handle all my X's finances as well, taxes.... I was raised in a home where business was a part of daily home discussion.....second nature, so answers come easy to me)

 

 

I have no doubt he's a good person deep down but that doesn't make a good husband.

Oh I so agree with this. And I have said this in just about the exact manner to him but with a little nicer twist. He says again he is aware and will change...... so thus the chance for him to prove himself now..... fail and I will leave have no doubt.

 

I wasn't blaming you for him being this way- in any way. At all and I hope that my post didn't come across that way.

 

No... no worries...... I got it.

 

I want to venture out and say something. I hope you can accept it as honest and in the manner in which I'm posting it-

 

(prepares to be screamed at)

 

I

think that you may be woman who needs alot of attention. I know that you don't feel that you are- and for a long time I didn't feel that I was either. I'm not saying you're demanding to your H- so don't mistake that. I'm saying that you require a high level of attention from your mate. I can tell because you've pointed out a couple of times that guys hit on you regularly. I'm not saying you're vain at all- but they hit on you and you notice it.

 

I am sorry but I do need to laugh at this..... I think of myself as a person with a brain then somewhere down the line as a attractive person maybe. It is obvious when people hit on you. hell one guy stuck his tongue in my ear and said he wanted to lick my P8SSY .. and you know I don't like it..... at times it really pisses me off. I do not run about "done up" I am not all that.....but apparently enough to have guys and women hit on me often. The only person who I want to hit on me isn't, my husband. He takes me for granted, he does not appreciate what he has or what I am. And his own buddy had or may still have a thing for me.... I did not realize it for over a year...... so no I don't always notice it..... but you can indeed see a guy stare at your boobs, look you up and down and then get all excited. My job is about reading body language...... so maybe it is more obvious to me.

I am more sensitive to it at this time and it is more irriatating to me because like I said the one person who is supposed to do this is not..... again he is aware and states it is because he is or was in a rut...... we shall see.

 

 

 

 

I understand this, completely, because I'm that way too. It's not in your system to be with someone who doesn't do these small things for you. You're a giver by nature and as such you have high expectations of what you expect from a partner. And, when you don't get it, you feel that it's a deep personal slight.

 

I feel it is a deep slight when the person said " I will, I know, I am going to" then does not...... Yes.... I feel lied to. I do not expect anything but a person to stick to there word. He did not say : I will not ever get you a thing, I will not show you I care the way you want me to......if he did I and I still expected him to do such things......yes then my expectations are out of line. But he stated/lied that he will and would do such things...... so again for the last time how is it that MY expectations are so high???

 

Maybe he just sucks at fulfilling them which is what he stated last night again.......his fault...... not that I am out of line with my expectations in any way shape or form....... so please quit telling me my expectations are too much for him when he states they are not....... believe me I have examined my expectations of him when our friendship started....and when we signed the land lease living agreement..... talk about outlining expectations

 

 

 

You have high expectations for yourself- you work hard-you strive for excellence in your business and personal life. There is nothing wrong with that.

 

Sure I do expect myself to attemp to be the best at things I care about. But I do not expect others to put effort into my ideas unless they want to. I do not look for perfection, I look for effort in my work world. A person who lucks into success or buys it does not hold nearly the value to me as a person who had to put actual effort into the same achievement.

 

 

I think you're also a fixer. You like to fix other people's problems- and you love animals. Probably take in alot of strays?? Do you think that perhaps you saw him as a bit of a project or that you wanted to help him in some way??

 

NO NO NO NO........ As a matter a fact his ability to not need fixing was very attractive to me. Able to solve problems, ability to get the job done, desire to strive for more, not being hung up on issues of his life, not a drunk, not an addict, a together guy that marched to his own beat...... highly attractive to me...... but now he certainly is a fixer upper isn't he.. ... and thus my need to decided to get rid of him.... I like fixing up houses....... not people IMHO many people just need to shut the hell up and get over it... make mountains out of mole hills..... I am not a people person..... certainly not the type to fix them up...... kill them yes....fix them, well you cannot fix a person.....they have to fix themselves. I do enjoy watching them tho...... I admit to that..... love those shows on primative tribes and all that... behavior is very interesting to me..... but not at home, no enjoyment from playing trainer or behaviorist with the H..... won't do it.

 

I don't take in nearly as many strays as I kill. I am selective and weigh the prospects if the animal is rehab material or not. Out of 18,000+ animals that I could bring home per year..... I brought home one in 3 years. This dog is to serve as a demo dog.......so no I do not get a fix from picking up strays or humans in need of fixing..... logic dictates when deciding which animal can live or die..... not emotion.

 

I don't think you're asking too much from this guy- he should be able to do these things and want to do them.

 

Yep he sure should........ very disappointed in him. He again says he is aware and will do something about it asap....... we shall see.

 

I fully accept that I'm this way- and I told my H as much before we married. I told him I'd settled for less than I deserved before- and that I knew I was a kick ass wife-and a guy would be lucky to have me. Being as such though I expected alot from my partner as well- and was he prepared to give that? He accepted the challenge.

 

See I think my H is just as kick ass as I am.....he just really frucked up. And I hope he can get himself back on track and even come back better than before. He knows he screwed up...... admits it without any excuse tied to it. Huge step in my view.....no but if this would have happened I would have dont this but it did not so I couldn't crap.... he did pull this before. Not this round.... but wait and see..... and that is the hard part because I am not one to sit around and watch the world slide by..... I can get what I want on my own without being obligated to a husband..... I don't have to have him, it may hurt but I know I certainly will survive with many many good days ahead.

This is now in his hands....... I only have to stop being angry... (damn that is hard for me right now)

 

I'm wondering- at all during your courtship did he treat you the way you want to be treated? And if not, why get married?

 

Oh my he did go out of his way to do things for me....... even just as a friend.

I think he got lazy..... took me for granted.... but not now or that is what he says. I think he figured that hell we are married so thats it.... no need to put any effort forth.....then it became a habit. Like the hottie gf that turns into the slob lookin wife.

 

See my trust with him is a little shot from all this too. That is the really sucky thing.

 

 

and I do appreciate the input.... I am angry so perhaps my posts are skewed. But I think it is better to post that my H is a frigging retard here than to say it to his face right now...... I don't dare state this to our friends that would be stupid, disrespectful, and cause problems down the road.

 

And the cat and dog are really sick of hearing my rantings.... they just look at me thinking " shut the hell up stupid, and get me a biscuit"

[quankanne]

The person who made the comment that you find fault with everything because it doesn't meet your standards has a point – the posters are in their own limited way trying to help, but because you're extremely frustrated by what's going on, you appear to be shooting down anyone who doesn't tell you what you want to hear. Which in turn is frustrating, because a lack of communication/connection leaves us not knowing what you actually want. Much like how your husband could be feeling.

 

1. even though we joke about the "mommying," sitting him down and laying it out isn't really such a bad thing, because your expectations are clear. It's much easier than having to cope with someone who thinks you put out mere suggestions. It's less about training (though we refer to it that way) as setting ground rules he cannot say he's not aware of.

 

2. counselling doesn't sound attractive*– I think it'd be pretty dang hard to do, too – but a set up with someone else overseeing the work you're doing on your marriage (at least initially) allows for a "safe," constructive environment instead of hashing crap over and over because one person just doesn't get it and the other is ready to kill.

 

3. the whole mother thing is an aspect to think about. Not that she's dead or how much he loves or misses her, but in how his parents provided a role model for marriage. People base their relationships on what they saw growing up, and if his dad never remarried, your husband never really got an idea of the dynamics of a marital relationship. Which I think would be much, much harder to work with than say abuse or addiction, because what would that person have to base their view upon?

 

Point being just because your desire is not mine does not make mine to be of a higher expectation or lower expectation than yours... it is mine. Exactly. Where there's good communication at work, the other party understands that. And we're trying to offer tried and true help to see you achieve that.

[a4a]

For clarification--I'm not saying that any of these old issues are conscious. To accept that they are operative makes them conscious and dissipates their subversive power.

 

We all have a history that follows us, like it or not. Many of us want to throw that past in the closet or trash it and never look at it again. I did. But our past is always there, whether we choose to see it or not. If we refuse to see it, it will run the show, all subconsciously while we protest, "I dealt with all that before; it's not an issue." Like it or not, our past is a part of us that we can't excise. We can choose to look at those feelings and learn their subversive ways when we have refused to admit them into our life and they go guerilla on us. Then we can deal with them rationally. But not letting the feelings of vulnerability and fear and betrayal be and be known in anything other than report mode, doesn't help you and your H see what's going on at a level that's invisible to you. It's when you share honestly from your depths that you're good, right?

 

But right now your depth is deeper than his. He's perplexed by what's going on to make him act like this. He may not be letting you know what's really going on at a deep feeling level because he just doesn't know; he's that far subconscious.

 

You're wanting him to take care of you (for good reason!), but he needs you to take care of him first in this case. Which means you've got to get him awake and alive one way or another in order to get anything of what you want from him. Until he's aware of his own feelings and how they're operant, you're going to continue to play out this scenario ad infinitum. This I know from years of experience with my otherwise wonderful H, too.

 

You scoff at therapy, resist seeing therapists who can help us rationally deal with feelings we don't want to have that nonetheless sabotage our lives. And I understand all that. I lived it. And I know that strategy doesn't work.

 

I see the vulnerable a4a peeking out to see if it's safe to share here (which she needs to do because it isn't safe or appropriate to do so IRL) but it's like there are two layers to you--the vulnerable person in need (as we all are! but which you don't seem to like (who does?)) and then this witty, intelligent sarcastic Bouncer intent upon keeping others from seeing or helping that vulnerability.

 

And you're in a real pickle aren't you because you need someone--something you probably hate to admit? Someone to help you fix H because you need him to want you. Which I think is what MzP is getting at with the desire for attention. (?) It's deeper than a superficial "Buy me something!" girlie girl thing. You want the man you want, the love of your life, to want you. And him not doing that feels too familiar and bad and scary--so scary you want to run from it like you did before. No wonder. I think he's got to understand this about you if he doesn't. This really is a matter of life and death for your soul, as you've indicated here. You simply cannot stay in such a situation.

 

But he's got his own issues that are running the show and sabotaging your marriage that he needs to deal with. Cause if he doesn't: lather rinse repeat.

 

Why is his discomfort at going the therapy more important than your discomfort? Why are you protecting his feelings at the expense of your own?

 

You're a capable, wonderful human being in pain. And we don't want to have to euthanize you. :eek:

 

Holy smokes you are projecting your life into mine right now.

See I am not married to a person who has neglected me for 25 years...... no.

 

A shrink will not solve his problems..... do you know what would solve his problems........ $40,000 to pay off his debt. If he could win that in a lottery or earn it problem solved. But if I pay it off..... it will not solve it.

 

And his feelings are not more important than mine.... that is the point of this.

I put my foot down and said enough is enough. Be a man shut the F up and do something about it.

 

Here is the deal in very business like terms... without the goo.

 

I got a really good guy in my life, I really like him. He has really F-ed up. He knows it. Me..... well yeah it would suck to not have him around, but I will not settle for less than I want. So either he straightens the hell up or I leave.

 

I don't get all gooy inside about it..... when push comes to shove. I came into this world alone and I will go out alone... he is part of my life that I did/do enjoy and could enjoy more of if he straightens the hell up.

 

So if I leave I will cry for a couple of days, feel bad for a month or two... but I will go on. Been there done that.

 

I refuse to be obligated to a person who cannot treat me in the manner in which I desire if indeed I am treating them in a manner in which they desire.

I am willing to bend from time to time...... I expect the same from them.

 

**** happens...... bad things happen..... you move on. Sitting there continuing to pick at a scab does not help it heal and it tends to leave even a bigger scar....

 

and sometimes a cigar is just a friggin cigar to the smoker..... it is not a representation of a penis, it is not a symbol of Cuba, it is not a status symbol..... it is indeed just a friggin cigar.

 

Oh my little girl inside just wants to be held and have her dolly to comfort her.

 

Not really I just want to enjoy life...... today..... tomorrow.... there is not one frucking thing I can do to change yesterday.......I can learn from it and embrace it in a positive manner even if it did seem to suck as it happened......

 

and just like now..... if all this works out and makes our marriage better.... I will be so so happy this happened...... If it does not work out I will still be happy it happened, at least it was a great lesson, it may not have had a happy ending but at least it did not drag out for 10 years.

 

and girlie girlie thing my ass...... hell I buy coworkers gifts to show appreciation for effort and sometimes just because. I do not run the show, I do not ask for attention at gatherings.... I do get it tho because I must have great tits or my humor is so off the wall people like it or hate it. I sit in the background the majority of the time or try to because I don't feel like having attention which is mostly the undesirable kind. I do wish my H would pay attention to me.... is that wrong??? I like people to respond when I talk to them as well..... is that wrong or am I an attention whore?

 

I am not in the pickle......he is. I am angry......but not in the actual pickle.

Sure I wish he would have not done this.....but he did. He is not my responsibility to fix. He has to fix himself. To fix this the bottom line is the money issue..... this is obviously where it started. So yes I need someone to give him $40,000 and make him think he earned it or in some way deserved it so then that monkey can get off his back...... if I give it to him it will just make him feel like more of a failure..... in his own word moments ago.

 

Of course if his mom came back from the dead and gave him the money that may cause a need to go into really deep therapy.

 

The money is the issue..... just money..... evil evil money....his self respect, honor and ego are in a mess because he is not financially secure for the first time in his life. Not his dead mommy, not his dead daddy, not because he stubbed his toe..... he made stupid decisions and now is a mess because of it.

He also feels like crap because it does effect me.

 

So he needs to do something about it and he needs to repair our relationship at the same time........ and no I am not going to feel sorry for him.... I am still pissed. His money problem is no excuse for his actions.

 

Now I think the majority of men will step up and say.....it all makes sense.

 

Money and man ego are very tied together.... and me being odd and man like. I do understand this.

[Mz. Pixie]

But A- I still think we're alike in alot of areas

 

I put extreme effort into my relationships with people that I let into "my inner circle" if you're not in it- it doesn't bother me so much- but if I let you in- and then you hurt me- it affects me very deeply.

 

I don't need a man. I've fully survived a huge bit of my life in a stale marriage and doing everything myself. That's why it wasn't that big of a deal to live separately from my first H. I was doing everything anyways, what difference would it be to do it for just me and my kids??? Actually less work because my dang apt stayed cleaner without him around!

 

Emotionally I can suck it up and be tough- because if I weren't tough I would be dead by now. I've survived things that tons of other people would have crumbled under. But yet, I want someone to caretake me when I need it. I'll give as good as I get but deep down inside me there's a part of me that needs the caretaking. Meeting my needs- doing things for me etc.

 

I'm tough in business and I project a tough girl image to most people- but the people that really know me know that I'm not.

 

I act like I can do anything- but in reality I want my H to know me intimately and care about my needs as much as I care about his. And this is all you're asking. You don't have to have him- but you want to have him.

 

I think perhaps you're looking for the magic cure- one that won't require counseling etc- and I just don't think you're gonna get there. Both of you could pick up a book and read it at least. I suggest "His Needs/Her Needs how to affair proof your marriage"

 

I know you said he won't do it- but I think it should be required.

 

I never said that you sought out attention A- it's just that you get hit on alot. I'm pretty dang cute myself and I do get flirted with- but you get hit on ALOT. I know the only one you want to notice is your H!

 

I think it's pretty dang pitiful that he's acting this way when you guys haven't been married that long. I know it's pissed you off. My ex at least took about five years into the 13 before he got neglectful.