My God...I hurt SO bad!!!

[B-3128]

Uhhh, B, this is all tough stuff. I do have to agree with Magnolia, it is not all about chemistry and reproduction of nature etc. Just because science found out about neurotransmitters; there is soo much science hasn't even touched yet that might change our perception again.

I got a movie recommended, produced by hardcore physicist scientists that basically admit, that we do not really have a clue yet: "What the bleep do we know".

 

But reality is what we choose to think, if we sit there and think it was just the hormones playing tricks on me it will be exactly that.

 

Jeez, B, you sound so full of anger and hatred and self loathe, I don't even know what to say. I do agree that the partner can become an addiction but not as a relief for self hatred. But because we liked all the good feelings that came with him/her.

 

I think you're right. I do really really miss the good moments. They were what made life worth living. Now, so many of them are gone and I have to face up to it that I need to make some more

 

Why do you hate yourself that much, B? I mean honestly, what can be the cause for it and maybe it is more important to focus on that and trying to do something about it than actually being prepared for an accidental meeting with borderline Ex. Maybe the reason that you fell for her lies in your self hatred.

You are smart enough, so I guess you kinda know that and most likely reflected on that already.

 

Reflected I have, but I still don't know why I hate myself. I don't hate myself consciously. It's a different sort of self-hate. Something deeper. Lots of people hate themselves for no good reason. Perhaps because the self is the source of all misery. Maybe to get to like yourself, you need to make it a source of joy...

 

The light can come in many forms and it doesn't necessarily have to be a partner, it can be an important project, a hobby, friends, family, anything really. I know what you are talking about because I for sure struggle to find a new light as well sinc the old one failed for reasons that are still unknown to me. But I also know that i can find something else again if i want and try hard. Right now I am still too confused and maybe you are, too, but if you like your course or a little aspect of your course and find an interesting question to research and look deeper that can already take you further and make you see light again. The difficulty lies in finding a new light if one focused only on one and that one ran out of battery.

 

I think that there's something distinct about people that can't be replaced by say, a hobby. It helps to keep busy, but it's only useful to a certain degree. The whole problem seems to be between me and myself though, so maybe I don't really need anything or anyone... but maybe that's bs. We are social animals. Hardwired to need each other. It's probably important to recognise that.

 

Life is more than just chemical reactions and you know that yourself, B, you are just super dissappointed and angry like most of us.

Life is more than chemical reactions when you don't feel that it's all a delusion. I've seen happier days. Ones where it felt that there was more to it. I want them back.

We all wallow in self pity, but it doesn't help if we start loathing ourselves. In fact, it will become worse, because the next girl again might then be one that isn't stable or has big issues or feeds from the fact that she can get you to feel that nothing you do is ever good enough. Tormented is right, we all come with a package these days, but that doesn't mean that everything is doomed, We just need to find somebody with a package that is compatible with ours.

 

Your Ex obviously was fairly hardcore. There is nothing to prepare you for such a person. So I guess if you settle with somebody with a package just slightly less heavier, you will already see better results If you stop hating yourself that is. Maybe you should try and work on that with a counsellor or by reading books on the topic if that suits you better. Jeez, B, you are too smart to stay in the corner of the basement you put yourself in. You can do so much better.

 

C'mon, B, get out of there, tell us something nice. Maybe about the girl you hang out occasionally that you seem to like?

 

I like her bbut I'm worried about myself - why do I like her? Is it for the wrong reasons? Reasons that will lead me to even more pain?

 

 

B

 

 

 

[B-3128]

Hey Guys,

 

I feel bad for having killed the thread with my depressive ramblings. This is a place where everyone is supposed to seek solace. I get the impression that I have poisoned the atmosphere somewhat. For that, I apologise. Self hatred is so cancerous, ugly and infectious.

 

Today I had a bad dream about her. In the dream, she was really upset because we lost each other's friendship. She was crying and locked in the bathroom. I was at the door trying to get in and help her. Then it ended. I woke up and I was so worried about her. I still really really love her. I care about her so much. I think I always will no matter what. And it really really pains me to have to deal with the reality of myself as a narcisstic self hater who has to fight off the urge to care for those who will treat me so badly. Am I fighting an illness or am I imagining one? It's so hard to know anything anymore. I just feel like I'm supressing the good person within me... help!!!

 

B

[Tormented]

Hey Guys,

 

I feel bad for having killed the thread with my depressive ramblings. This is a place where everyone is supposed to seek solace. I get the impression that I have poisoned the atmosphere somewhat. For that, I apologise. Self hatred is so cancerous, ugly and infectious.

 

Naw, you didn't kill the thread, B. At least, not for me anyway. I've been really busy lately. It's Thanksgiving here in the States and that takes a lot of preparation, and of course, a time spent with family and friends. Haven't been on my computer for a few days now and have just logged on to catch up on emails, this board, etc.

 

Yeah, you do seem a bit on the depressed side right now, and although you won't admit it, even if just to yourself, I think seeing your ex has set you back and re-opened some wounds. That's always the risk in seeing your ex, and precisely WHY I avoid talking to mine.

 

But in my case, I see him almost on a daily basis as he goes out of his way to drive past me. That will come to a stop here soon as the logging trucks aren't running as much due to the weather. We're seeing a lot of rain and snow is predicted so hopefully I won't be seeing him.

 

Instead, he's taking it to a whole new level...having people call here asking for him, pretending that the "thought" this was his number. Yeah...right.

 

Tell ya what, B. Between the BS I've been dealing with at work, and having to deal with my ex's childish mind games I'm about to move away from the area. In fact, I made a call to the Personel Department in another county inquiring about a position with them and they're interested. Said they would be contacting me some time early next week. If they invite me for a interview, I'm going through with it. I think it's time for me to go...just get the hell out of here and start from scratch somewhere else.

 

Thing is, where ever I go I'll keep it to myself because I don't want my ex to know where I went. One grand day he will discovery I'm gone and that will be that. I think, at this point...especially with the funk I'm in...it's for the best.

 

Today I had a bad dream about her. In the dream, she was really upset because we lost each other's friendship. She was crying and locked in the bathroom. I was at the door trying to get in and help her. Then it ended. I woke up and I was so worried about her.

 

Borderlines are VERY polished in being the "vicim." And they're very successful at it, in fact, it's their choice weapon in snagging their victims. Very often, those who have the misfortune of wandering into their twisted, sick world find themselves in the "savior" position. But tell me. How can one save another from THEMSELVES? Because, really, a borderline is their own worst enemy - something they are keenly aware of but can't seem to "fix" it, so they often look to others to save them. But BECAUSE they are their own worst enemy, they methodically set out to sabatoge the very same help they cried out for, and when the "savior" backs off, the borderline will again feel like the "victim," failing to realize that THEY pushed said savior away. They have absolutely NO insight into their pathology. And the sad part? They are quite skilled in convincing the victim that THEY are the villian in all of this, leaving the victim riddled with undue guilt. It's a horrible maze you'll find yourself trapped in.

 

But once you find a way out....STAY OUT! Don't go back in their again. You may not survive a second trip in.

 

I still really really love her. I care about her so much. I think I always will no matter what. And it really really pains me to have to deal with the reality of myself as a narcisstic self hater who has to fight off the urge to care for those who will treat me so badly. Am I fighting an illness or am I imagining one? It's so hard to know anything anymore. I just feel like I'm supressing the good person within me... help!!!

 

B, you have the insight to KNOW this isn't healthy, but like an alcoholic to the bottle, you can't seem to stay away from it.

 

The fact that you can acknowledge the danger in getting involved with this woman is a positive...many don't even have that much to go on. At least you're not completely blind to the danger here, or have deluded yourself in to believing that she's changed, or that it will be "different" this time around.

 

It's amazing to me how many people fall in to that trap. And it really is a set-up, you know. It would have been damn easy for me to believe that my ex REALLY wanted me instead of the borderline. I mean, hell...he's called here more times than I can count since they've been together. He's done everything within his power to remain in my site. And now, he's got people I've never heard him mention calling here asking for him, although he hasn't lived here in about 7 or 8 months. Yet, all of a sudden these people are "looking for him."

 

You and I both know what he's doing, and we both know he's behind these people calling. Why? I don't know. Makes about as much sense as calling here and sitting silently.

 

But it would have been easy for me to believe he wanted me back. That he misses me SO much. And I'm sure he does, but I think it has more to do with wanted what you can't have. I refuse to allow myself to fall into that "oh he just Loooooooves me," crap. I'm sure he's got some kind of feeling for me, and I'm sure he misses SOME things about me...but he made his choice when the chips were down, didn't he? Just as your ex made her choice, didn't she? And guess what, B...they didn't choose us.

 

And really, that's the bottom line here, isn't it? They left us, they broke our hearts in a million pieces for their own selfish reasons...and didn't even bother to look back at the ruin they left us in.

 

And now that they've gotten a bit bored with their "new and improved choice," they have decided to veer their eyes our way again.

 

Don't know about you, B, but *I* won't be had like that again. If he did it once, he'll do it again and so will she. Why? Because they can! If we allow them back into our lives after what they've done, we have basically given them a green light that it's "okay" to treat us in such a horrible manner.

 

Me? I refuse to play Judus to my own self-worth and heart. He may have betrayed me, but I won't betray myself.

 

I'm much to valuable for that.

 

And so are you.

 

Hey...just noticed that you're a "Established Member" now. Means you can send a private email to Green or I, or any other Established Member on this board. Green and I have exchanged pics. She's a cutie!

 

~T~

[Tormented]

I fully agree. So that's at least something I can take pride in: I am able to love fully and genuinely, even though it doesn't seem to get me anywhere right this second

 

You know what, Green? That's absolutely correct. Why in the hell those of us that got our hearts broken and rejected by "rejects" feel as though we should hang our heads in shame is nothing short of ridiculous. It's not warranted. Our biggest "crime" was to love. No shame in that, now is there?

 

 

 

You know that are few people that can take it silently and won't have any other problems like getting stomach ulcers or something similar because they don't allow themselves to vent anywhere... Obviously there is a big demand for a board like this!

 

To silently suffer is feeding the fire of anger. Anger turns into bitterness. Bitterness turns into hate. And where does that leave you? With a black heart and a sense of hopelessness. A world of despair. No thanx!

 

Hmm, I am very sorry that overcoming this breakup is harder for you then when your marriage failed. That says a lot how deeply you cared about him. Oh dear. I guess it is the "mate" and "fate" thing, once we believe this person could be the one it is very difficult to convince us that he/she isn't.

 

Yes, I did love him very much. And I don't fall in love often or easily. But when I do, I fall hard. That's always a big risk because you open yourself up for the pain I now suffer. But then, the alternative (to live a life minus love) seems much, much worse. So....when I am ready and IF I find another that captures my heart, I will love again. But not until I have fully healed from this one, which I have not.

 

It sounds as if your Ex changed a lot to, or rather went bacK to his old behaviour which obviously pissed you off even before borderline hit the scene again.

 

Did he change, or did his "true" self finally surface? A question we should all ask ourselves about our exes. Time and time again I read on this board (and hear people say in person) that their mates have "changed." No, I don't think the mate has changed as much as it is they finally stripped their mask off and we are getting a glimpse of their "true" face, their "true" nature. And sometimes, it ain't pretty.

 

People, as a rule, will always put their best foot forward upon the first meeting, and for a while there after. But an act like that can only go on for so long until their "true" nature comes out. And that's when the problems set in. Happens all the time, unfortunetly.

 

 

 

Hu, that is odd, given that he didn't really fully live at your place. You really think he would play that as a trick? How stupid! Why can't he just speak up? And if he doesn't dare to, at least write a letter and let you know what he obviously wants you to know. I don't have to understand it, do I? I am trying to make sense of it, but struggle a little

 

Yes, I don't believe, I KNOW he is quite capable of such. My ex is all about games and "evening the score." Can't begin to tell you how many times he bragged about "getting even" with others who he felt "screwed" him (his words), and the extent of which he was willing to go to do so. And yes, it is stupid...but when is spite ever smart? He won't speak up because he's afraid to. He's afraid of what I'll say. He's afraid of having to face what he did. He hasn't a leg to stand on, so he chooses to shoot from the dark. I don't know why he's doing it or what he hopes to gain from it. But what he's managed to gain from me at this point is....disgust and disrespect. I would have respected him a lot more had he been a man about this. Had he faced me and admitted that what he did was wrong. Had he expressed remorse for hurting me. Had he come clean with me about his true feelings for me, good or bad.

 

But instead he took the coward's way out. And although it has left me feeling disgusted, can you imagine how he feels about himself? To know that he doesn't even have enough balls to face what he's done?

 

 

Oh well, so there are still silent calls. By now I am quite convinced that he still cares for you and most likely loves you still, too. But doesn't help. If the trust is gone, it is gone. And for sure his strange ways do not help to rectify things at all. Gosh, why is love and life so complicated sometimes?

 

I'm not convinced that his bizarre behavior is sprouted by love for me as much as it is wanting something he can't have, and perhaps some guilt he's feeling for what he's done. But then, it could be out of curiousity to see what I'm up to, to see if I'm still pining for him or if I have moved on. Who knows? And the more time passes, the more I don't care. Thank God!

 

Hey, Tormented how's your mum, btw? Any good news on that front?

 

Mom is doing better. She's going into L.A. mid January to have the oil removed from her eye. They told her she should see better after that's done and we'll know how successful the surgery was then. So, we're all crossing our fingers hoping for the best.

 

I think she's flying up here to spend Christmas with my son and I and I'm looking so forward to seeing her. Hopefully, my sisters will be able to come up as well. Sure could use some family around me about now. I crave their hugs, their love. It's been a VERY lonely time for me during this breakup. Don't know what I would have done with this board.

 

Thank you for asking, Green.

 

~T~

[Tormented]

Well Tormented I * think * I have figured out what is up with your ex and you .

 

I think the one thing you cannot let go of ( nor can your ex ) is that you both have * chemistry * A very strong powerful attraction and its undeniable that you both are still feeling this..

 

Yes, we do. This I've always been aware of, and something I know could lead to potential danger if I'm not careful. I have stated here several times that I do NOT want a face-to-face meeting with him and this is why. Yes, I am disgusted with him. Disgusted? Hell, more like furious. But still, when there is strong chemisty between two people, as my ex and I have, there is a very real danger of "forgetting" what was done and falling in to that trap. NOT a position I want to place myself into because I will have lost all the ground I fought so hard to gain. And where would that leave me? On ground zero. NOT a good place to be, and NOT a place I ever want to visit again.

 

Well guess what ? Its going to last forever !

 

I know. And it sucks. But does he know?

 

I know you are shocked but I will give an example.

 

Nope, not shocked. It's a fact.

 

It does not matter if he drug you through the mud and back again....the chemistry lingers...

 

'Tis true. Strange, isn't it? You would think that after all is said and done and your heart is bleeding out, the sight of that person would turn your stomach. But that's not the case, is it? I will always have chemistry with this man, regardless if I like it or not. All the more reason to stay the hell away from him!

 

Soooooooooo.....it was amazing...ahhh,....but hey the attraction stuff just lingers...so that might explain why you both haven't let go.

 

You know, the chemistry thing I've got figured out. That's easy enough. But WHY we are having a hard time letting go remains a mystery to me. Don't think it's all chemistry, although that plays a factor. But that's not entirely it. We had this - oh...I don't know what to call it - WEIRD (for a lack of a better word) bond between us that I can't quite explain. It keeps us attached...somehow.

 

Its killing you both !

 

Yes, it is. My pain is beginning to lessen some, can't speak for him. Hell, he can't speak for himself either, it seems. Calls here, sits silently on the other end while listening to my barrage of "hello's." What the hell is THAT all about? I don't know where he is on the pain scale, but mine has dulled some.

 

Oh happy days!

 

Wow no easy answers here : Unless you want to hanky panky with him one night and get your ya ya's out

 

Oh...HELL NO! Why don't I chug-a-lug a bottle of rat poisoning? It would hurt a lot less!

 

~T~

[Greensleaves]

Reflected I have, but I still don't know why I hate myself. I don't hate myself consciously. It's a different sort of self-hate. Something deeper. Lots of people hate themselves for no good reason. Perhaps because the self is the source of all misery. Maybe to get to like yourself, you need to make it a source of joy...

 

I guess you do. I think I like myself enough to be pleased sometimes, but tend to beat myself up if I did something wrong and it takes me much longer to forgive myself than anybody else. Slightly pathological, but I guess not too bad.

I just bought a book yesterday a guy at uni here wrote (he is a neurologist researching psychosomatical disorders) and I have actually seen him after my accident and back then thought what BS he is trying to sell, but now in hindsight I know he was spot on about childhood traumas etc even though I couldn't see any connection between the trauma and the late accident. Well, there wasn't really, but we are very complex human beings and one bad thing can trigger the next. He just wrote that they are only starting to comprehend borderline disorders, where they come from and how to treat them and is optimistic that there are ways of treating at least some forms of it. Might take a few more decades, though and therefore maybe you should rather go for the girl you like than your Ex Ok, bad joking, I am sorry to hear that you still love your Ex so much, but I guess that is something we all suffer from, but I guess with people with pathological disorders it gets worse.

I am pretty sure your Ex can't help doing bad things as it is part of her disorder and I am sure she feels sorry for what she put you through and hates herself for it but and here comes the big but: she won't change unless she gets professional help and really makes efforts to change. And it seems as if the percentage of borderlines that do change is not very high which could be linked to the fact that the optimal treatment has not been developed yet. In most cases borderlines became victims of some sort of abuse as young kids, so its just difficult. Apparently, there seem to be more female than male because male borderlines tend to develop a violent/aggressive streak and rather end up in prison where they won't be diagnosed. Dunno the statistic behind of course.

 

But to cut a long story short: You can't fix her and you can't help her. Unfortunately.

 

 

 

I think that there's something distinct about people that can't be replaced by say, a hobby. It helps to keep busy, but it's only useful to a certain degree. The whole problem seems to be between me and myself though, so maybe I don't really need anything or anyone... but maybe that's bs. We are social animals. Hardwired to need each other. It's probably important to recognise that.

 

Oh, I agree. I much rather have a person to relate to. However, having a captivating hobby helps you keeping sane when the personal relationship fails. I am definitely a people person. But I never experienced the disadvantages as much as I did the past months; I guess it is a special case though, as i had to move and leave my latest friends and substitute family behind, too. Good friends, interesting hobbies and a healthy share of self love might be the key

 

 

I like her bbut I'm worried about myself - why do I like her? Is it for the wrong reasons? Reasons that will lead me to even more pain?

 

Hmm, Why do you like her? Maybe because you like hanging out with her, because it feels comfortable hanging out with her, because you enjoy her company? That's already good enough for a reason at least for the time being.

 

Green

[Greensleaves]

Yes, I did love him very much. And I don't fall in love often or easily. But when I do, I fall hard. That's always a big risk because you open yourself up for the pain I now suffer. But then, the alternative (to live a life minus love) seems much, much worse. So....when I am ready and IF I find another that captures my heart, I will love again. But not until I have fully healed from this one, which I have not.

 

Hmm, sounds like me a bit, too. Right now i can't even imagine falling in love ever again, but let's face it. most people risk it again once they forgot all about their previous scars

 

 

People, as a rule, will always put their best foot forward upon the first meeting, and for a while there after. But an act like that can only go on for so long until their "true" nature comes out. And that's when the problems set in. Happens all the time, unfortunetly.

 

That's true, of course, you are always presented a better package in the beginning, if you were exposed to the bad traits straight away you would run away and hide. However, once you are fully in love and appreciate the good things in the other person you might be willing to deal with the bad. We all know that, but still seem to think the partner and the relationship has to perfect. It always needs some kind of work, however, we bail once we have the feeling that the effort is not worth the outcome or of course if it all turns abusive. My Ex has behaved like an ass** and I was hurt and annoyed and everything, however, comparing mine to his other stories he has been way better with me than anybody else. I am not saying that is enough of a justification, but obviously he somewhat worked on himself over the years, whether it is enough or not, only he can determine that for himself. It is ever so difficult to change behavioural patterns and when the package grows bigger it will make some people turn around completely and some just get worse. But you never know what you will get in the beginning. It's easier and less work to get worse, I guess that is why many choose it.

 

 

 

 

But instead he took the coward's way out. And although it has left me feeling disgusted, can you imagine how he feels about himself? To know that he doesn't even have enough balls to face what he's done?

 

Hmm, yepp that must bruise his ego for sure. Who likes to admit that they lack courage and a guy of all things?

 

 

I'm not convinced that his bizarre behavior is sprouted by love for me as much as it is wanting something he can't have, and perhaps some guilt he's feeling for what he's done. But then, it could be out of curiousity to see what I'm up to, to see if I'm still pining for him or if I have moved on. Who knows? And the more time passes, the more I don't care. Thank God!

 

I doubt that a little, but of course you know him better and besides I always like to think good of others. I do think he loves you one way or the other or at least misses you one way or the other, but it will be easier to think that he doesn't. And he will tell himself the same and eventually you both won't be missing each other anymore.

 

Good that you mum will be visiting for Christmas. Christmas can be really dire without close friends or family around. Yepp, one needs to replenish the hug balance again.

 

So here are some cyber hugs coming your way .

 

Uuuh, thanks for the cutie .

 

To tell the truth, B, Tormented herself is rather sweet looking, too, and therefore guilty of fuelling male patients' nurse fantasies in that NA community of hers

 

 

Green

 

PS: Hu, just received a note saying that I won't be shortlisted for the job I really really wanted to have. Darn.

[Greensleaves]

Hey Guys,

 

I feel bad for having killed the thread with my depressive ramblings. This is a place where everyone is supposed to seek solace. I get the impression that I have poisoned the atmosphere somewhat. For that, I apologise. Self hatred is so cancerous, ugly and infectious.

 

You didn't kill it. I was just waiting for your response to mine and was in a dial-up household again which means that I don't feel too comfortable in doingmuch more than checking my mail...

 

 

Today I had a bad dream about her. In the dream, she was really upset because we lost each other's friendship. She was crying and locked in the bathroom. I was at the door trying to get in and help her. Then it ended. I woke up and I was so worried about her. I still really really love her. I care about her so much. I think I always will no matter what. And it really really pains me to have to deal with the reality of myself as a narcisstic self hater who has to fight off the urge to care for those who will treat me so badly. Am I fighting an illness or am I imagining one? It's so hard to know anything anymore. I just feel like I'm supressing the good person within me... help!!!

 

B

 

Well, Tormented has replied to that in detail and there is not too much to add except for: Hey, everyone in your situation (no matter if they are narcisstic or self hating or similar) would have fallen for this girl without knowing what she was about. Unless you have experiences with borderlines there is no way that you can know, so that was just bad luck on your part, really. In fact in general it is a very nice trait that you care and the next girl if she is not pathological in any way for sure will appreciate that trait in you. You care about her because you fell in love with her and you are still in love with her, not because she is a borderline. Well, I don't know your history, of course, but if you think back of other girls you met and fell in love with or at least cared deeply for, did they all treat you badly? If yes, than maybe there is something you need to do about it, if no, well, you just ended up falling for the wrong girl, that can happen to the best of us

 

I know, it can be so confusing at times. Sometimes you just wonder what the heck is going on. I know that feeling. I read up on stuff and then almost feel like med or psycho students that imagine to go through every disease/disorder they read up about because you will always find some symptoms to be there! And it is difficult to stay sane.

Life once was easy and I am sure it will be like that again eventually. It is the middle part when you realize your decisions and actions might be of consequence and you have goals you desperatedly want to reach when it starts becoming really complicated and your milestones seem to drift away. Maybe we just get too serious sometimes.

[Tormented]

but let's face it. most people risk it again once they forgot all about their previous scars

 

Probably a good thing or we'd never fall in love again. I look forward to the day my pain is forgotten.

 

 

 

 

That's true, of course, you are always presented a better package in the beginning, if you were exposed to the bad traits straight away you would run away and hide. However, once you are fully in love and appreciate the good things in the other person you might be willing to deal with the bad.

 

I have never demanded perfection in another because I have flaws as well. How can I demand from another what I myself can not give? It depends upon what the "bad" is and the severity of it. Once I am in love, I'm tough...I can hang in there. But not to the point of allowing abuse because I love myself as well. In the case of my ex, he has stepped well over the line and I could never allow him back in my life. Because if I did I would never forget the pain he inflicted and would be in a perpetual state of anxiety awaiting the next round of pain. And if it happened, I would have but myself to blame for it. He's already proven he's capable of crueltly, so why would I want to walk through that door again...this time KNOWING what's in store for me? Nope - think I'll pass.

 

 

It is ever so difficult to change behavioural patterns and when the package grows bigger it will make some people turn around completely and some just get worse. But you never know what you will get in the beginning. It's easier and less work to get worse, I guess that is why many choose it.

 

I agree. If the issues haven't been dealt with then they worsen as time goes by. And the older the person gets, the harder it is to change the pattern. Especially so if one refuses to face down their demons and instead chooses to deny they exist - which is the case with my ex. He's so busy blaming everybody else for his problems he can't see the trees for the forest. Like I said, I can hang in there IF the person is at least TRYING to change negative behavior/traits, but a refusal to do so can only bring me down with them. Life is hard enough without that kind of crap!

 

 

Hmm, yepp that must bruise his ego for sure. Who likes to admit that they lack courage and a guy of all things?

 

Funny thing is, my ex likes to fancy himself a "tough guy." You know, a MANLY-MAN. Why is it that some men think large biceps and "tough talk" is all that is required to prove their manhood? Dream on!

 

I doubt that a little, but of course you know him better and besides I always like to think good of others. I do think he loves you one way or the other or at least misses you one way or the other, but it will be easier to think that he doesn't. And he will tell himself the same and eventually you both won't be missing each other anymore.

 

Green, for quite some time I told myself the same. That he loved me, missed me, etc. Why? Because to believe so was less painful. But the truth is if he truly did love him he would have found the guts to speak up when he called here. He would have been at my door, regardless of the risk he was taking, to at least explain what happened, why he did what he did, to at least TRY to ease the pain he's caused. People who genuinely care about another don't want that person to hurt, especially so if they caused it. The old saying, "actions speak louder than words" rings true. His actions, as bizarre as they are, have told me that he doesn't care and I sometimes wonder if he ever did.

 

I do hope you're right...that eventually I will stop missing him. Actually, it's starting to happen. I noticed he preoccupies my mind less often and for shorter durations. He's starting to fade from me and that's exactly where I want him....a past ghost who I can't feel anymore. That way, I will be free to love another.

 

Good that you mum will be visiting for Christmas. Christmas can be really dire without close friends or family around. Yepp, one needs to replenish the hug balance again.

 

You know, I just can't seem to get into Christmas this year. Everywhere I look there are Christmas decorations, and I find myself looking away and sighing. Same thing with the TV...commercial after commercial advocating Christmas. Just can't get away from it. It's hard looking at all this happy-jolly crap when you feel such emptiness inside.

 

I suppose some of it is the plans my ex and I had for Christmas. You chose a spot in his house for the Christmas tree and even agreed on a theme for our decorations. We laughed about him hanging lights around the house...something he has never done. Even his daughter laughed and said she couldn't wait to see this because nobody has ever talked him into hanging lights, except me. But he agreed to do it, and we joked about me standing out there with him barking orders as he strung them. We talked about opening one present on Christmas Eve, but would wait till Christmas morning to open the rest. He teased me about my Christmas stocking...saying - "You just never know what I'll put in there," followed by a playful wink. And I looked so forward to my Christmas with him, believing it would be one of the happiest I have ever had.

 

But now...it's nothing more than a dream gone up in smoke...like my future with him. And I am so damn angry at him for robbing me of what COULD have been a happy existance. Oh, I know I can still have a happy life without him, but it's only been 3 months and the pain is still raw. So, I'm glad my family will be here with me Christmas. I'll need them to get through the day.

 

So here are some cyber hugs coming your way .

 

Thank you, Green. I could use LOTS of those!!!

 

Uuuh, thanks for the cutie .

 

Well, it's true.

 

To tell the truth, B, Tormented herself is rather sweet looking, too, and therefore guilty of fuelling male patients' nurse fantasies in that NA community of hers

 

LOL! On days that I'm not so "perky," they're probably thinking more in terms of "Nurse Ratchett." Muahahahahahahaaaaaaa......

 

 

PS: Hu, just received a note saying that I won't be shortlisted for the job I really really wanted to have. Darn.

 

Oh, Green....I'm so sorry to hear that. I know you had your heart set on this position. And I know you're tired of hearing it, but keep the faith. Eventually, the idea position will open up for you. I think, too, things slow down for the holidays and pick back up when they're over. At least, that's the way it is over here. Always plenty of positions come January, so perhaps it will be the same way in your neck of the woods. But I know you're tired of waiting. Just, what ever you do, DON'T give up!!!

 

Sending a hug to you....

 

((((((((GREEN)))))))))

 

~T~

[Greensleaves]

I have never demanded perfection in another because I have flaws as well. How can I demand from another what I myself can not give? It depends upon what the "bad" is and the severity of it. Once I am in love, I'm tough...I can hang in there. But not to the point of allowing abuse because I love myself as well. In the case of my ex, he has stepped well over the line and I could never allow him back in my life. Because if I did I would never forget the pain he inflicted and would be in a perpetual state of anxiety awaiting the next round of pain. And if it happened, I would have but myself to blame for it. He's already proven he's capable of crueltly, so why would I want to walk through that door again...this time KNOWING what's in store for me? Nope - think I'll pass.

 

I guess that is wise in your case, Tormented. For sure, if it becomes abusive, there is no use in extending it. It is so sad knowing that there once was a connection and now therre is nothing and nothing can change that.

 

 

I agree. If the issues haven't been dealt with then they worsen as time goes by. And the older the person gets, the harder it is to change the pattern. Especially so if one refuses to face down their demons and instead chooses to deny they exist - which is the case with my ex. He's so busy blaming everybody else for his problems he can't see the trees for the forest. Like I said, I can hang in there IF the person is at least TRYING to change negative behavior/traits, but a refusal to do so can only bring me down with them. Life is hard enough without that kind of crap!

 

Hmm, It is always easier to blame others as then you don't have to put any effort into reflecting your own actions. Many people do that. So it seems as if your Ex won't go anywhere because he won't be able to live/stay with any woman if he is not at least trying to selfreflect. His loss, I suppose.

 

 

Green, for quite some time I told myself the same. That he loved me, missed me, etc. Why? Because to believe so was less painful. But the truth is if he truly did love him he would have found the guts to speak up when he called here. He would have been at my door, regardless of the risk he was taking, to at least explain what happened, why he did what he did, to at least TRY to ease the pain he's caused. People who genuinely care about another don't want that person to hurt, especially so if they caused it. The old saying, "actions speak louder than words" rings true. His actions, as bizarre as they are, have told me that he doesn't care and I sometimes wonder if he ever did.

 

Don't know, sometimes it seems as if people though feeling rather similar react completely different. Maybe it is just because I am reading Jane Austen "Pride and Prejudice"

I do think he cares, but he cannot voice it and react accordingly, but the end result is the same, whether he cares or not: because he put himself in this position there is no way of reconciliation. If he didn't care at all, he wouldn't call. Simple as that. But it won't change anything, as it doesn't trigger any action and therefore he might as well not care. I mean it is a silly game. If you didn't care you would get tired of the phone calls pretty quickly, especially if the other person on the line does not do anything else but say "hello". However, phrasing it differently, his way of caring is not the way you would for him nor the way you want him to which is why he might as well not care at all. Does that make any sense whatsoever?

 

 

I do hope you're right...that eventually I will stop missing him. Actually, it's starting to happen. I noticed he preoccupies my mind less often and for shorter durations. He's starting to fade from me and that's exactly where I want him....a past ghost who I can't feel anymore. That way, I will be free to love another.

 

Good work, Tormeted, way to go! I am proud of you! And with your family being around it might even go quicker.

Sheesh, sorry to hear that you had all these Christmas fantasies with him. Uh, that does hurt. I know it does. First time I met my Ex was at the company's Christmas party. Uhh, unpleasant memories. Hmm, take pride in the fact that his daughter said you would be the first and the only to make him mount the Christmas lights. Even though it is not happening any more, for sure you made an impression. You can be proud of that.

Hmm, it is hard for sure. My stepmom's first husband died on the 23rd of December in a car crash and I think she said it was supposed to be their first Christmas in the house they built together. She hated Christmas for quite a while.

 

I know I am crazy but I bought a fairly cheap ticket and I am flying to see my Ex Stepdaughter and her family (e.g. mom+husband and mom's side grandparents) third week of December. I can't really afford it, but I couldn't care less. Not seeing them for Christmas even though they have been my family for more than two years (and I spent the last two Christmas with them) made me too depressed!

 

 

Oh, Green....I'm so sorry to hear that. I know you had your heart set on this position. And I know you're tired of hearing it, but keep the faith. Eventually, the idea position will open up for you. I think, too, things slow down for the holidays and pick back up when they're over. At least, that's the way it is over here. Always plenty of positions come January, so perhaps it will be the same way in your neck of the woods. But I know you're tired of waiting. Just, what ever you do, DON'T give up!!!

 

Sending a hug to you....

 

 

Ach yes, my heart was set on that position, but maybe it is better that way as it would be in the same town my Ex has his duty station in. He is travelling a lot too, so I don't have how high the chances would have been running into him, but it might just be healthier being somewhere else. Unfortunately I had another cancellation and the other job I found yesterday that was next to perfect and in the UK was already taken, too. Ach, sighs Gretchen. It honestly feels as if I am being at the wrong place at the wrong time. I know I am good at what I do and all jobs I ever had people were more than happy with my performance (except for being a waitress, I am too clumsy with high glasses and trays.... ) and whenever I have an interview people instantly like me, but these days I always seem to be one step behind if you know what I mean. Sigh again.

I do admit it is difficult to stay positive, but I will do my best.

[MagnoliaJane]

Hey B,

 

Hey Guys,

 

I feel bad for having killed the thread with my depressive ramblings. This is a place where everyone is supposed to seek solace. I get the impression that I have poisoned the atmosphere somewhat. For that, I apologise. Self hatred is so cancerous, ugly and infectious.

 

Nope, you didn't kill the thread! Please never feel guilty for speaking your mind! It's such a precious thing to be honest about your feelings and they don't have to be bright and shiny always. I see that as a flaw of our society. Everything always has to be good, better, best. Well, life ain't no picnic and we should be allowed to say so at times.

 

I haven't been on LS for a few days because I saw my ex after 3 months of low call to interchange our stuff and have been feeling teary and depressed ever since. He can be infinitely sweet sometimes and infinitely distant and cruel at others. He just can make himself "emotionally absent" from a situation when he chooses so.

 

T, you're so very right about watching out for abuse. My ex did come back after he left me, only to abandon me for the second time a few months later, hereby literally following the tracks of his own father who abandoned his mother with 4 young kids. He's angry at his father for that, especially since his mom apparently wasn't able to take good care of the kids herself. Yet, he himself walks away from his relationships and abandons people just like that. And you know what, deep down he's proud of that. He needs no-one when he decides so.

 

But then... he can be the total opposite also (extremely caring, toughtful, present). In the beginning of our relationship he needed so much reassurance from me, every day at least 4-5 times of checking in with me. But you're right again, T, they can't keep up with the person they are not. So one day I believe he was simply disappointed in me, for not being the one who was going to make him believe otherwise or change his vision of relationships, and he just made a 180 degree turn.

 

It takes courage to make a relationship work. But more importantly, it takes TWO to make it work.

 

Magnolia

[Greensleaves]

He can be infinitely sweet sometimes and infinitely distant and cruel at others. He just can make himself "emotionally absent" from a situation when he chooses so.

 

Ooo. MagnoliaJane, that sounds exactly like my Ex. And was a big source of frustration, because he could change within minutes and built up a wall that no one could penetrate.

 

hereby literally following the tracks of his own father who abandoned his mother with 4 young kids. He's angry at his father for that, especially since his mom apparently wasn't able to take good care of the kids herself. Yet, he himself walks away from his relationships and abandons people just like that. And you know what, deep down he's proud of that. He needs no-one when he decides so.

 

Yepp, that's him. His father walked away, too and he hates him for doing that (his father did it multiple times, therefore he has half-siblings, too) and yet he is doing the same, and despises himself for it and then again is also proud that he doesn't need someone.

 

But you're right again, T, they can't keep up with the person they are not. So one day I believe he was simply disappointed in me, for not being the one who was going to make him believe otherwise or change his vision of relationships, and he just made a 180 degree turn.

 

I think that is precisely what happened to me, too. He was very keen on making a difference this time and believed he had found the right partner to do so. Well, he would have if he himself had fully believed that despite his childhood experiences relationships can work. But when the first obstacles appeared (and they always will after a while) he thought that the relationship was doomed and ran away.

 

Hmm, and yes, it takes TWO to make it work.

 

MagnoliaJane, I feel sorry for you. I don't know what it is these days but for sure there are more people out there that want to be in a relationship but can't handle it when they are. Hope you get better soon; the fact that he walked even twice shows that despite his sweetness at times, he will remain unreliable. Unless he starts working on himself, he will never make it.

 

Green

[Tormented]

 

I guess that is wise in your case, Tormented. For sure, if it becomes abusive, there is no use in extending it. It is so sad knowing that there once was a connection and now therre is nothing and nothing can change that.

 

Abusive - as in psychological. But in doing so, he's hurt himself as well. The old saying, "Cutting off your nose to spite your face" comes to mind. Yes, we did have a strong connection, but that time has passed and it can never be regained. Never. Knowing this is the root of my pain.

 

Hmm, It is always easier to blame others as then you don't have to put any effort into reflecting your own actions. Many people do that. So it seems as if your Ex won't go anywhere because he won't be able to live/stay with any woman if he is not at least trying to selfreflect. His loss, I suppose.

 

Bingo. If he ever chose to take responsibility for his part in his own misery, then he'd be forced to face the demons he has spent a lifetime avoiding - demons that obviously threaten him. He fears defeat, he fears loathing himself more than he already does should he fail to succeed so he simply places the blame elsewhere. Safer, yes. Healthy, no.

 

 

I do think he cares, but he cannot voice it and react accordingly, but the end result is the same, whether he cares or not: because he put himself in this position there is no way of reconciliation. If he didn't care at all, he wouldn't call. Simple as that. But it won't change anything, as it doesn't trigger any action and therefore he might as well not care. I mean it is a silly game. If you didn't care you would get tired of the phone calls pretty quickly, especially if the other person on the line does not do anything else but say "hello". However, phrasing it differently, his way of caring is not the way you would for him nor the way you want him to which is why he might as well not care at all. Does that make any sense whatsoever?

 

Yes, I do understand what you're saying here. Makes perfect sense.

 

I do realize that people show love (or feelings) in different ways because we are all programmed in our unique way. That's what makes us all individuals, unique in our own right. If we all thought and reacted in the same way, well...it would be a boring world, wouldn't it?

 

But sometimes our method is counter-productive, as is the case with my ex. Perhaps you're right - he does care but is unable to carry it further than a random phone call in which he sits silently, hoping that I'll pave the road for him by saying the words that he can't manage. I know he knows I'm aware it's him, and perhaps he hopes that I'll pick the ball up and run with it. But knowing me as he does, he's got to realize that this isn't going to happen. That's what I mean about counter-productive. That which he seeks isn't going to happen through this method, so why he continues is anybody's guess.

 

Sheesh, sorry to hear that you had all these Christmas fantasies with him. Uh, that does hurt. I know it does. First time I met my Ex was at the company's Christmas party. Uhh, unpleasant memories. Hmm, take pride in the fact that his daughter said you would be the first and the only to make him mount the Christmas lights. Even though it is not happening any more, for sure you made an impression. You can be proud of that.

 

It's a bitter-sweet thing. The memory of us planning out our Christmas brings both a smile and frown to me. The image of him mounted on a ladder while toiling with Christmas lights brings a grin, but the fact that it will only happen in my mind brings a sense of sadness. I've no doubt this thought will cross his mind at the sight of Christmas lights as well. How that thought will effect him is anybody's guess at this point.

 

Hmm, it is hard for sure. My stepmom's first husband died on the 23rd of December in a car crash and I think she said it was supposed to be their first Christmas in the house they built together. She hated Christmas for quite a while.

 

My stepfather died of cancer on the 22nd of December last year, so this is going to be a rough one for my mother this year. All the more reason for her to be here this Christmas. It's been a rough year for us all.

 

I know I am crazy but I bought a fairly cheap ticket and I am flying to see my Ex Stepdaughter and her family (e.g. mom+husband and mom's side grandparents) third week of December. I can't really afford it, but I couldn't care less. Not seeing them for Christmas even though they have been my family for more than two years (and I spent the last two Christmas with them) made me too depressed!

 

Oh, I don't think it's so crazy. Sometimes, we've got to do what we've got to do no matter how "illogical" it may seem. You've had a rough time, Green, so I think you're entitled to some happiness, don't you think? Go - enjoy!

 

Ach yes, my heart was set on that position, but maybe it is better that way as it would be in the same town my Ex has his duty station in. He is travelling a lot too, so I don't have how high the chances would have been running into him, but it might just be healthier being somewhere else. Unfortunately I had another cancellation and the other job I found yesterday that was next to perfect and in the UK was already taken, too. Ach, sighs Gretchen. It honestly feels as if I am being at the wrong place at the wrong time. I know I am good at what I do and all jobs I ever had people were more than happy with my performance (except for being a waitress, I am too clumsy with high glasses and trays.... ) and whenever I have an interview people instantly like me, but these days I always seem to be one step behind if you know what I mean. Sigh again.

 

You know, Green, it seems to be this way for many people now. There are several people out there with the skills and degrees required for desired positions, yet can't seem to land any. We live in hard times...and it seems to be worldwide. Doesn't mean finding a desired position is impossible, just harder now. And there are several people out there dealing with what you are and share your frustration. We live in scary times, Green.

 

BUT - with a strong will and a strong resolve to succeed, you can and WILL find what you're looking for, which you seem to have. Sooner or later, Green, it WILL pay off.

 

~T~

[Tormented]

I haven't been on LS for a few days because I saw my ex after 3 months of low call to interchange our stuff and have been feeling teary and depressed ever since. He can be infinitely sweet sometimes and infinitely distant and cruel at others. He just can make himself "emotionally absent" from a situation when he chooses so.

 

Ah, yes. The Jekyl/Hyde syndrome. A powerful tool to keep us hooked, and they use it so well, don't they?

 

About the time we get fed up with Hyde, they quickly switch to Jekyl to rekindle our interest. It's a horrible emotional roller coaster that keeps you stuck longer than you should be. The mixed messages, the hot/cold...mixed with passion and sorry - what is a woman to do? Or man, for that matter should he find himself involved with a female version of the above. It's selfish and it's cruel. And it makes moving on a painful task because they continue to "tease" us with something that they will NEVER be able to provide. They haven't the ability, and they know it. But it's not about us, is it? It's all about THEM and what THEY need. All the more reason we need to place ourselves first, because God knows - they won't!

 

T, you're so very right about watching out for abuse. My ex did come back after he left me, only to abandon me for the second time a few months later, hereby literally following the tracks of his own father who abandoned his mother with 4 young kids. He's angry at his father for that, especially since his mom apparently wasn't able to take good care of the kids herself. Yet, he himself walks away from his relationships and abandons people just like that. And you know what, deep down he's proud of that. He needs no-one when he decides so.

 

Psycholigical abuse, in many ways, is more damaging than physical abuse. It takes much, much longer to heal, if at all. We can reach a level where the pain is tolerable, but we will most likely always hurt to some degree. In time, and a lot of it, we will reach a place that will allow us to love again, but not without some reservation or fear. Doesn't mean we will never trust again, we will...but it will take longer than in the past, before our pre-Jekyl/Hyde experience. But you know, that may not be a bad thing. Could very well be the one thing that keeps us from getting involved with men like this in the future. So, as they say....to each rain cloud there's a silver lining.

 

But then... he can be the total opposite also (extremely caring, toughtful, present). In the beginning of our relationship he needed so much reassurance from me, every day at least 4-5 times of checking in with me. But you're right again, T, they can't keep up with the person they are not. So one day I believe he was simply disappointed in me, for not being the one who was going to make him believe otherwise or change his vision of relationships, and he just made a 180 degree turn.

 

This part of your relationship I can completely relate to. My ex wasn't as hot/cold as yours, but he did need constant reassurance from me. He constantly called me, not out of love, but out of paranoia that I was doing something he felt I shouldn't be. This stemmed from the relationship he had with his ex, the one he is now with, who cheated on him, stole from him, lied to him, and left him for the man she is now married to. He had some serious trust issues after that, which is understandable, but I always felt that I was paying HER bill. And it caused a lot of problems in our relationship.

 

My ex is a needy man. He can't handle being alone. And I often wondered if he was capable of love. I think he mistakes his *need* for companionship as *love* for them. He has a long past of running out immediately after a breakup to find a "replacement" for the ex. For him, mates provide the drug he needs to get by. And THIS isn't love, it's a sickness.

 

The only difference here is - in the past, once he found a replacement he wouldn't attempt to contact the ex. As long as he had somebody there, he was content. However, even though she is living there with him, he has continued to call me (even though he says nothing when I answer the phone), and has arranged his trucking route to pass by me daily on my lunch break. This is unusual for him...a break in his past pattern. And it's making things hard for me, for my healing process.

 

I do think, Magnolia, that you and I are facing the same dilemma. Both our exes are looking for instant gratification. They wanted (expected) us to be that magical element to "fix" their broken spirit...to bring them the happiness they failed to find within. NOBODY will EVER meet that need and so they will continue to go through relationship after relationship - like a bee to a flower - searching for the impossible and coming up empty-handed each time. They are chasing a mirage, an illusion that doesn't exist.

 

Yes, we hurt...for NOW. But theirs will be for life.

 

And I pity them....

 

~T~

[Greensleaves]

Abusive - as in psychological. But in doing so, he's hurt himself as well. The old saying, "Cutting off your nose to spite your face" comes to mind. Yes, we did have a strong connection, but that time has passed and it can never be regained. Never. Knowing this is the root of my pain.

 

Oh I never thought it could be anything else but psychological, dont get me wrong, I am not saying that psychological can't be as bad as physical, but for sure you don't come across as a woman who would tolerate any physical abuse at all.

 

Bingo. If he ever chose to take responsibility for his part in his own misery, then he'd be forced to face the demons he has spent a lifetime avoiding - demons that obviously threaten him. He fears defeat, he fears loathing himself more than he already does should he fail to succeed so he simply places the blame elsewhere. Safer, yes. Healthy, no.

 

Yepp, trying to avoid unpleasant things about ourselves doesn't get us anywhere, does it? On the contrary.

 

 

But sometimes our method is counter-productive, as is the case with my ex. Perhaps you're right - he does care but is unable to carry it further than a random phone call in which he sits silently, hoping that I'll pave the road for him by saying the words that he can't manage. I know he knows I'm aware it's him, and perhaps he hopes that I'll pick the ball up and run with it.

 

Yepp, I think that is exactly it.

 

 

My stepfather died of cancer on the 22nd of December last year, so this is going to be a rough one for my mother this year. All the more reason for her to be here this Christmas. It's been a rough year for us all.

 

Uh, that is tough. Good that she is going to be with you. Hope your sister will be able to make it, too.

 

You know, Green, it seems to be this way for many people now. There are several people out there with the skills and degrees required for desired positions, yet can't seem to land any. We live in hard times...and it seems to be worldwide. Doesn't mean finding a desired position is impossible, just harder now. And there are several people out there dealing with what you are and share your frustration. We live in scary times, Green.

 

Yepp, it seems that way. When I phoned the recruiters (for some reason they are based in Switzerland) for the UK position she told me they posted it and within one day they had four applications of really senior people with lots of experience and the right background even though the position did not even require you to have more than two years. Sheesh. If such a position attracts senior people to apply for less money than they would normally get, you can imagine how bad the market must be.

 

BUT - with a strong will and a strong resolve to succeed, you can and WILL find what you're looking for, which you seem to have. Sooner or later, Green, it WILL pay off.

 

I hope you are right, Tormented, I hope you are right. Just feel like it is a bit too much on my plate these days. Wished I could just concentrate on one thing at a time...

 

Just got back from watching the Sofie Coppola movie "Marie Antoinette". Hu, put me in a meloncholy mood for sure, but then again it is the most melancholy month of the year, isn't it?

Green

[Greensleaves]

The only difference here is - in the past, once he found a replacement he wouldn't attempt to contact the ex. As long as he had somebody there, he was content. However, even though she is living there with him, he has continued to call me (even though he says nothing when I answer the phone), and has arranged his trucking route to pass by me daily on my lunch break. This is unusual for him...a break in his past pattern. And it's making things hard for me, for my healing process.

 

 

Sorry, I am hijacking your post to MagnoliaJane, but that paragraph does say that he actually would have rather you than her and that for sure he valued you way more as he only starting seeing borderline again when you both were on break. Oh for sure it makes healing more difficult, but again it shows that you didn't imagine things, he did love you in his own way (and maybe still does). If he just needed to have anybody he could be content with borderline and stay with her and not contact you at all. But and that reminds me of that cider/wine post B wrote weeks and weeks ago: obviously he is needy and needs to have somebody in his life but he is not that stupid that he wouldn't know that you are quality wine whereas borderline is cider.

See, it doesn't make it easier to give up on him and get over him, but at least you can rest assured that he felt for you and would much rather be with you than her. That of course is not enough, but it sounds as if this is the best this man has to offer. Sad enough, but at least a compliment/tribute to you.

[MagnoliaJane]

Hi Tormented, Green and B,

 

From reading several other threads on LS I now believe that the way we deal with the post break-up phase largely depends upon how the relationship was broken up. I thought about my own previous break-ups at well, not that there were many, but I haven't felt so "broken" before. I guess when both partners are committed to the relationship but there's incompatibility and there has been at least a struggle to make it work, then you can depart from that relationship with a feeling that it's just not meant to be.

 

But when there's one person who runs for the hills, alone or involved with someone else, and leaves the other alone dealing with the abandonment and grief, then basically you are left with yourself AND a broken relationship and it feels like you have to bury something alive. And that's so hard. You're there, you have all these feelings, and nobody to turn to. Sure you can tell your friends, but there's only so much grief you can show to those around you but not involved in the heartbreak.

 

The good thing is (Jeanette Winterson wrote this):

Nobody ever died of a broken heart.

 

So it's time to pick ourselves up. We have no choice. And we owe it to ourselves. But do it at your own pace.

 

Be sweet to yourself (also you, B!). Forgive yourself. Even if you are not so sure (yet), as I am, what there is to forgive. Truth, is I noticed I am hard on my ex (feeling angry, bitter), but I have also been very hard on myself (why?). Somehow I am blaming myself for something although that is very hard to admit. Maybe I want to take the blame on me as an excuse to wallow in sadness/grief/bittterness. I somehow want to hold on to that, but I am not sure why?

 

T, I think it is a very courageous decision to move to another county.

 

B, for you, the following Shakespeare quote:

Our doubts are traitors, and make us lose the good we oft might win, by fearing to attempt."

 

Unfortunately, I am good at giving advice that, I myself, do not follow

 

And last but not least, we have to let them go, because they wanted to go away.

 

Magnolia

[B-3128]

Why will I never get over this girl?! It's been 4 months... a third of a year and I'm still thinking about it every day! I'm just getting so so tired...

 

I don't think I even have anything left to write guys. I really don't. I wish I did. I'm here because I want to do something to feel better. It's the same everyday. Every single day. 120 days nearly. 2 880 hours. 172 800 minutes of agony. Bouncing up and down. I love you. I hate you. Fighting myself away from her. Struggling. Writing. Not sending. I feel ill. Sometimes I just wish I could go to sleep until it's all over.

 

B

[MagnoliaJane]

B...

 

Have you ever entertained the possibility that you can't let go because you don't want to let go? Maybe this issue goes deeper than just her? Maybe you are deliberately keeping yourself locked up for some other reason... Maybe it is more about you and who you are.

 

Sometimes it's just so hard to find the words, but just try, B. Keep on trying. Don't give up.

 

You might be in a depression right now. But that in itself is not bad. A depression presents us with a conflict inside ourself that we have to overcome in order to change. See it as a riddle. One you have to try to solve.

 

What is it in her that makes you think no-one else can ever make you feel that way? I know she seems within reach (physically) and then again she is not (emotionally). But you have yourself, and you can start there.

 

"Sometimes a letter a time is all we can do" (Jeanette Winterson)

 

Magnolia

[Spidey12]

Tormented, B, greenleaf, and MagnoliaJaNE..

 

You are all very powerful people and I admire the amount of self worth and self value you have implemented upon yourselves. I can only hope that my own experiences allow me the luxury of the kind of self respect you seem to command. I am very much in need of your advice. Though I've posted this in another thread, I'll copy it here. Feel free to break it down into bits and respond to it however you deem necessary.

 

 

I cannot begin to describe to you the incredible amount of anxiety coursing through my body at this moment. I've been through many odd and trying situations with girls, but I've never been faced with anything as troubling as this.

I'm a model for Tommy Hilfiger and thus I come across many beautiful women more than eager to begin a relationship with me. But I'm rather selective. Beauty is only skin deep, and more often than not I find myself intensly attracted to women who most would not consider SUPER AMAZINGLY DROP DEAD GORGEOUS-esque.

In any case, I met this girl who had a boyfriend of 7 years. (you may remember me talking about this in previous threads, but it is irrevelent) We fell madly in love with each other, in a way that I have never experienced before. I've thought about dropping the "Will you marry me?" to this girl so many times.

 

Her boyfriend lives far away, several states away. About a month ago she left him because of her increasingly apparent feelings for me. However, shortly after she began having doubts. She decided it would be best to wait until he visited her here for thanksgiving to decide how she felt about him.

 

So he came here and stayed with her for Thanksgiving (hes still here now, he leaves tomorrow). She texts me every now and then. I don't initiate any contact, I let her get in touch with me. During the entire past few days she called me once, and that was yesterday...when her boyfriend had left somewhere.

 

Most of you are inclined to tell me that she is not worth it and that I should move on. However, I have exasperated that option and after much deliberation and vigilance on the matter, I've decided that I could never just move on and forget about her. There's too much at risk if I just throw her aside.

 

About 20 minutes ago I had a fit of intense desire to speak to her, and I called her. She did not pick up. I assume its because he is with her and she doesn't want to offend him (he knows about me). The problem I have with this is that when I am with her and he calls, she leaves the room and answers him.

 

I'm at a loss as to what I should do. When he leaves, I'm wondering if they will have gotten back together. I wonder if they will decide not to get back together. And if they don't what should I do? What if she asks for more time?

 

 

I'm looking for advice on what it is I should do to completely make her want me. Do I just do N/C...randomly?

 

Ahhhh. Where do I go from here?

[MagnoliaJane]

Hi Spidey,

 

When I read your post I couldn't help thinking that it was all about her and what she thinks/wants/seems to want/needs...

 

In the past when I have found myself in a situation in which a man was doubting between me and another woman I just walked. That way I saved myself and him some misery. And, more importantly, I maintained my selfworth. It surely isn't a good feeling to be the third wheel on the wagon. Curiously, in my situation, that man and the other woman never made their relationship work out, and when I saw him again after 2 years he asked me why I had made that choice. I told him he wasn't emotionally available and I didn't want to interfere...

 

Your woman does not seem to be emotionally available either. And more importantly, it is a daunting task to build a relationship upon the ruins of the previous one. Please remember that!

 

In Spanish there's a saying that it is better to be alone than in bad company. I suddenly remember this poem from... W.H. Auden:

 

Looking up at the stars I know quite well

That for all they care I can go to hell

But on earth indifference is the least

We have to dread from man or beast

 

Someone who is emotionally unavailable is in a way indifferent. And that hurts, tears apart, rips open, burns like acid, wounds...

 

I'm sorry. This is probably not what you want to hear. You want to hear how you can get her back. Or maybe you want to hear how you can ease your mind.

 

Maybe you can think about yourself for an hour. Who were you before you met her? What drove you, got you interested in things, made you feel ok? What caught your attention each day and gave you a sense of fulfillment?

 

What I wouldn't do right now, in the state that you are in, is call her. Remember, you will probably hear from her, but not just right now. Give it a week. In the meanwhile, be gentle on yourself.

 

Magnolia

[Tormented]

See, it doesn't make it easier to give up on him and get over him, but at least you can rest assured that he felt for you and would much rather be with you than her. That of course is not enough, but it sounds as if this is the best this man has to offer. Sad enough, but at least a compliment/tribute to you.

 

Today...I sit here in front of my computer with a heavy heart. I've cried often, off and on - something I thought I was well beyond.

 

Until it start snowing.

 

Snow reminds me of him...of us. Of happier times. SO many good times spent together while the snow fell outside our window.

 

Fire blazing while we danced in front of it. Him in a heavy sweater and ski cap...me bundled in 3 layers of clothing. Herman's Hermits filling the den with up-beat love songs as we giggle and dance like two kids...our mugs of hot chocolate cooling down on a table, all but forgotten as we play.

 

The dull thud of him chopping wood outside while flurries of snow fall around him, me scooping up the wood and hauling it into the house.

 

Flying through the white landscape on his four-wheeler, snow spraying up from the tires as he speeds ahead...me behind him, my arms wrapped tightly around him while laughing and yelling to go faster. The cold air stinging our cheeks and ears, yet feeling each other's warmth.

 

The huge snowman we built in front of the house...using acorns for the eyes, a narrow piece of wood for the nose, and several small rocks for the mouth...then laughing at the silly result of our "creation," deciding to call him "Frankenstein."

 

And now, today, the snow has come back. The flakes have grown big and white is starting to blanket the trees and ground. But this time, there is no Herman's Hermits, no dancing, no dull sound of chopping wood, no flying through the snow on four-wheelers, no funny-looking snowmen.

 

They're all gone, just as he is. Yet...the damn snow keeps falling, bringing memories of him, of US, of a better time with it.

 

And I can't stop crying.

 

This is 'our' season...the snow, the smell of smoke from burning wood, the chill in the air, the white canvass.

 

And as I was standing at the window watching the snow fall, I couldn't help but wonder if he was doing the same thing...seeing "me" in the falling flakes. Remembering.

 

And then the phone rang. Two rings. And it stopped.

 

I wonder...was it him? Was he watching the snow fall, missing me?

 

Missing us?

 

Guess I'll never know.

 

I hurt so badly today.

 

I'm sorry, guys. I'm having a hard time today. I feel like B.

 

Will I EVER stop loving this man???

 

~T~

[Don Quijote]

Tormented,

 

Immediatly stop contacting this guy as this situation has the potential to escalate into something physically dangerous for everyone involved. Do not go to his house ever again. You do not know what this lady (a theif) and or this guy (an alcoholic batterer) are capable of doing to you. Perhaps you should stay with family for a while.

 

Additionally, I suggest you read up on the internet regarding the cycle of violence and/or domestic violence. There are a lot of good resources there that may help you through this and will show you an objective perspective of what happened on Wednesday which is called the "honeymoon stage"\

 

best of luck, be forgiveing of yourself and my thoughts are with you

[Tormented]

Hello Spidey...

 

I've many things to say to you, and I will. Right now I'm having a hard time....memories of the ex has decided to bite me in the ass today and I'm really struggling.

 

I know you're hurting and you need feedback as soon as possible. I promise to return shortly and give you my two cents worth.

 

In the meantime...DO NOTHING. Give it more time, listen to what others here have to say...sit tight.

 

I'll give you more when I'm feeling better.

 

~T~

[MagnoliaJane]

T,

 

It's Sunday night and I'm at work (still), way too late and sick/coughing but I read your post and couldn't go home without at least saying something, reaching out to you...

 

I know how the hurt of memories feels, there's nothing that you can do to prevent them from coming, there's no way you can turn off your mind. But you can try to change your perspective of things, slowly, one breath at a time...

 

See this as a burial. You actually have to say goodbye to these memories, in a way we say goodbye to someone who has died. You can do that with a lot of respect and love, but at some point you will HAVE to do it. Because you are sitting there now with a dead relationship in your hands, holding on, not letting go. But no matter how hard you hold on, there's no life in it and you can't bring it back. Unfortunately. I know... Devastating.

 

Some things change and they never go back to what they were. We can't help it. But we can decide to put them at rest. At least we can begin to contemplate to put them at rest. Think about it.

 

Take a deep breath. Hang in there. I am feeling your pain.

 

Magnolia