My God...I hurt SO bad!!!

[MagnoliaJane]

Tormented,

 

Here's some sisterly advice...

 

While it must feel good to know he loves you, he still f*cked up big time by taking borderline in, in the first place. Secondly, he f*cked up by being too much of a coward for not facing you or let you know how profoundly sorry he is for having f*cked up big time.

Thirdly, his drinking issue is really worrisome! Drinkers tend to be cheaters too, because they don't want to face reality and choose to numb themselves.

 

I may seem very judgmental here, I am trying not to be but truth is, you can't help those who don't want to be helped because they can't help themselves. An explanation is no justification... It's sad, it's so, so sad, but it is a reality...

 

Me too, I hate to let go of him who has cowardly ran away from me but still claims to love me. What is his love worth? Why doesn't it stimulate him to heal and take up some responsibility and work on the relationship? Probably because that's too difficult and difficult things should be avoided, treated with silence, or numbed with alcohol. Besides, everything is someone else's fault anyway.

 

I had such a wonderful time with my ex, but these reasons are why I never can go back to him, and rather prefer to be on my own. I'm not ready to face the world (yet) so it's solitary and lonely, and it's just me without reaching out, in fact I want to be alone, and I'll rather die than pick up that phone and talk to him, even though he told me "I can always contact him by any means". To tell what?

 

The veil has been lifted, and there's no pretending anymore. The game is over. Nobody won.

 

Nobody has ever died of a broken heart, but it can take a darn long time before the heart starts ticking again like it once used to...

 

Magnolia

[Mary3]

Tormented,

 

Here's some sisterly advice...

 

While it must feel good to know he loves you, he still f*cked up big time by taking borderline in, in the first place. Secondly, he f*cked up by being too much of a coward for not facing you or let you know how profoundly sorry he is for having f*cked up big time.

Thirdly, his drinking issue is really worrisome! Drinkers tend to be cheaters too, because they don't want to face reality and choose to numb themselves.

 

I may seem very judgmental here, I am trying not to be but truth is, you can't help those who don't want to be helped because they can't help themselves. An explanation is no justification... It's sad, it's so, so sad, but it is a reality...

 

Me too, I hate to let go of him who has cowardly ran away from me but still claims to love me. What is his love worth? Why doesn't it stimulate him to heal and take up some responsibility and work on the relationship? Probably because that's too difficult and difficult things should be avoided, treated with silence, or numbed with alcohol. Besides, everything is someone else's fault anyway.

 

I had such a wonderful time with my ex, but these reasons are why I never can go back to him, and rather prefer to be on my own. I'm not ready to face the world (yet) so it's solitary and lonely, and it's just me without reaching out, in fact I want to be alone, and I'll rather die than pick up that phone and talk to him, even though he told me "I can always contact him by any means". To tell what?

 

The veil has been lifted, and there's no pretending anymore. The game is over. Nobody won.

 

Nobody has ever died of a broken heart, but it can take a darn long time before the heart starts ticking again like it once used to...

 

Magnolia

 

Sooo beautifully said Magnolia ! And its so true he is an alcoholic and I would strongly recommend she not go back into that but sometimes LOVE is more powerful than we know and they may end up back together because they can't live with out eachother......Interesting to see what plays out here.

 

I just have to say NO she should not because he is a drinker FOREVER and I am soo glad its been 10 years w/o my husband and his drinking THANK GOD !. I divorced 10 years ago and will never regret that decision. His drinking destroyed everything.....

 

Good Luck Tormented in your decisions...

[Tormented]

Hey, Tormented, first of all, that is really really good news, all the things you have been wondering about, now you know, so he does care about you, he does love you still and he knows he fcked up. So that should give you great satisfaction!

 

You know, for 3 long months I've wondered if he ever thinks about me, if he felt any guilt (even if just a little) for what he did, or if he had any periods of regret. And finally, I reached the conclusion that he most likely DOESN'T think about me or care, because if he had, he couldn't do what he did. And I felt a mixture of anger/hurt at the thought of this, but was slowly coming to accept it.

 

And now, I learn that he DOES care, and yes, has great regret for what he did. This is all so strange because I was just posting last week that the one thing I struggled with the most is being left in the dark as to how he really feels and why he did it. Finally...I now know.

 

I always wondered how I'd feel if I learned the truth, if some light was shed on it. The answer? Numb. I couldn't get my mind off of it all day at work, and in a way, it's set me back. I now think perhaps I was better off not knowing because I'm all screwed up.

 

It would for me, for sure. He kicked borderline out after six weeks and made her stay in the spare bedroom even before he kicked her out. For sure it would have been much better not to let her in at all, but it has to be said he is not that stupid, at least not as stupid as we thought he might be. He knows he wronged you and that's why he doesn't have the balls to contact you.

Honestly, it is exactly the kind of news you wanted to have.

 

Yes, because I now know he still cares for me and couldn't easily replace me. No, because knowing that he still cares has screwed with my head. It's a bitter-sweet deal. On one hand, he threw her out and is mourning me. On the other hand, he moved her psychotic ass in and hurt me deeply as a result. That is not something I can forgive. I just can't...

 

But you are not entirely satisfied, because now your feelings are in a turmoil. Understandably so and you kinda knew that that was going to happen which is why you enforced NC and kept it.

 

It is precisely why I maintained NC. And to make matters worse, I saw him again today when I was coming out of a hair salon during lunch and he drove by in his logging truck. We stared straight at each other. He finally smiled and waved. I didn't wave back....just turned away and walked to my car. I just can NOT seem to get this guy out of my life!!

 

Are you sure? I mean really really sure? Hurt pride, principles, ideas and long lost dreams aside? To me it sounds as if you need to reflect on it a little, well I would need to at least.

 

Yes, I'm sure. How could I ever trust him again? How could I ever forget what he's done to me? The deep pain and anguish he's caused? How could I ever gain any comfort or security in a relationship with him? I would be riddled with anxiety waiting for the next time he broke my heart. No - that's not a relationship I want to be in. I do love him, deeply, but sometimes love isn't enough to make it work.

 

Hey, it is actually quite positive after all, at least better than anything we anticipated.

 

"Better" to me would have been for HIM to tell me these things himself. Yes, I understand that he's leary to approach me (and rightfully so after what he's done), but if he was an honorable man, he would've sucked it up and took what was coming to him. I would have respected him for taking responsibility and caring enough to come to me and at least TRY to ease the pain HE has caused. Instead, he opted for the coward's way out, and as a result, his supposed "love" for me doesn't mean as much. Not when I have to hear it through a 3rd party.

 

What really irks me here is that I was finally starting to have longer periods during the day when he wasn't on my mind. And now, he's all I'm thinking about.

 

This is SO damn hard!

 

~T~

[Tormented]

You are so lucky. I have a similar situation where I was WRONGED so badly and he's with another girl (don't know if he cheated on me and then left me for her or if she's a rebound) but I constantly wonder if he still thinks about how terrible he treated me, if he still loves me, if he feels ashamed and guilty for making the biggest mistake of his life...or if he's completely forgotten me and loves her.

 

To be honest, Cossette, I'm not completely convinced that knowing the truth, one way or the other, is a good thing. For three long months I've waited for these answers...beating my head against the wall with all kinds of thoughts and questions. I could NOT understand HOW a man who claimed to have loved me as much as he constantly said he did do such a hideous thing. And because we haven't talked since the day we split up (3 months ago) I was basically left in the dark to reach my own conclusions. And one of the conclusions I reached was that he didn't love me as much as he thought he did or he wouldn't have hurt me the way he did. It's a horrible thing to accept that the man you THOUGHT loved you actually didn't...it was all a lie, a fake. And it shakes your entire foundation and leaves you wondering if you can EVER trust your instincts again...or ever trust again - period!

 

I think HOW the breakup came about bothered me more than the breakup itself. Yes, I have missed him, horribly so. But had we broken up on a more honorable note, I think I could have moved on much easier. But the fact that he chose to lie and betray me has made moving on VERY difficult. Night after night I layed awake in bed, asking myself the same questions over and over again. And, of course, it got me nowhere because the answers weren't there. And I believed firmly that if I learned the truth, one way or the other, then I'd be able to move on.

 

Okay, I now know. Has it helped me? No...in fact, it has made it worse in many ways. As it turns out, he does still care for me, has thrown the borderline out, and feels regret about what he did. This has left me feeling relieved that he is unable to easily replace me, but it has brought me a heavy sense of sadness as well because the love we have for each other does neither of us any good. I can NOT go back to him, not now, not ever. Not after what he's done. And this has brought a heaviness back into my heart, and I've cried a lot tonight. It's as though I am back to square one in the mourning phase.

 

On the flip side, let's say I found out he's happy...doesn't think about me, has absolutely no remourse for what he's done. I've no doubt this would hurt me deeply and put me back to that dark place I was in on the first day of the breakup. I would've felt absolutely horrible, knowing that he could forget me that easily, that I was replaced and he was happy.

 

So you see...either way you go - finding out that he still cares or doesn't - will constipate your healing process. And even though I didn't think so as recent as last week, I NOW think NOT knowing is for the best.

 

Like you, I could never go back to him after what he did to me but I would absolutely love to know he still has feelings for me and was feeling miserable for the horrible treatment he made me endure. It wouldn't even bother me if he was with the other girl or not, so long as I knew he was miserable and missed me.

 

Well, that's what I always believed. But now, here it is...something I've been waiting a long time for and if anything, it has caused me a lot of tears and hurt tonight. I mean, now that I find out he does still care, what in the hell am I suppose to do about it? I'm in a real bad place here. I love him deeply, and I now know he does me, yet...I can't enjoy the love we share for each other because the damage done is permanent. I could NEVER trust him again...not like I did before. Without trust, you have nothing. A relationship without trust is doomed from the start, so why bother? It's a terrible spot to be in, and I know you understand what I'm saying here. Sounds like you and I are dealing with the same thing.

 

And YOU know. Now you've got the power and you can go to bed at night, knowing someone is sleepless over you instead of the other way around where YOU'VE been the sleepless depressed one. I would give anything for that role reversal.

 

Nope, not the case. I found this out yesterday after work and didn't sleep AT ALL last night. I tossed and turned just as I did the first few weeks after the breakup. I can't get him out of my mind now, whereas I was starting to get to a place where I could go for long periods of time without thinking about him. This whole thing has screwed me up.

 

How long have you and your ex been broken up, and has there been any contact since then?

 

~T~

[Tormented]

You are properly Mourning the Loss It takes alot of time........Tormented did you see my post about the Chemistry you and your ex still have ??

 

Yes, I did see it and responded to it. You should find my response not far below your post.

 

You're right...my ex and I do have strong chemistry, this much I can't deny. BUT - that's why seeing each other would be dangerous. It's the reason I've avoided a face to face encounter with him for fear of what would happen. When we see each other, which is almost on a daily basis as he zips by in his truck, our eyes lock, even if just briefly. And for that brief moment, I hurt. And apparently, so does he.

 

This is hell, Mary. Love is hard to find in this world, and my ex and I have it....yet we can't do a damn thing about it, or with it. Not now, not ever.

 

Not after what has been done.

 

~T~

[Mary3]

Yes, I did see it and responded to it. You should find my response not far below your post.

 

You're right...my ex and I do have strong chemistry, this much I can't deny. BUT - that's why seeing each other would be dangerous. It's the reason I've avoided a face to face encounter with him for fear of what would happen. When we see each other, which is almost on a daily basis as he zips by in his truck, our eyes lock, even if just briefly. And for that brief moment, I hurt. And apparently, so does he.

 

This is hell, Mary. Love is hard to find in this world, and my ex and I have it....yet we can't do a damn thing about it, or with it. Not now, not ever.

 

Not after what has been done.

 

~T~

 

What if you could forgive him ? What if he went into Alcohol Treatment ? Giving him 6 months of sobriety ? Some counseling ? To deal with all this ?

If he agrees then you did better than I because mine refused until it was too late...

 

How much do you love him ? How much are you willing to work on and forgive. ? What if you could look past everything and see he was a hurting soul with a disease ?

[Tormented]

but sometimes LOVE is more powerful than we know and they may end up back together because they can't live with out eachother......Interesting to see what plays out here.

 

Love IS a very powerful thing, which is why it is the most wonderful AND dangerous thing known to human. And this is why turning my back on it is beyond difficult. That can be said of us all here on this board.

 

I just have to say NO she should not because he is a drinker FOREVER and I am soo glad its been 10 years w/o my husband and his drinking THANK GOD !. I divorced 10 years ago and will never regret that decision. His drinking destroyed everything.....

 

You know, I constantly state that I won't go back to him because of the pain he's caused me, which is true, but another factor in this is his drinking. I can NOT live with a drunk. While he was with me, he never drank because he knew doing so would be a deal breaker in our relationship. But I know he struggled to stay away from the alcohol. And I also knew that sooner or later he'd break down and hit the bottle. I never once fooled myself into thinking that he'd stay away from it for the remainder of our lives. As you can see, although we have strong chemistry and love for one another, we also have some serious issues we'd have to overcome. But now, with all that has happened, there's no way it could work.

 

Sounds like you had a painful time in your life with your alcoholic ex. It's a terrible thing to have to deal with, but more so, live with. Congrats on your strength and good sense to get out of it!!

 

~T~

[Mary3]

but sometimes LOVE is more powerful than we know and they may end up back together because they can't live with out eachother......Interesting to see what plays out here.

 

Love IS a very powerful thing, which is why it is the most wonderful AND dangerous thing known to human. And this is why turning my back on it is beyond difficult. That can be said of us all here on this board.

 

I just have to say NO she should not because he is a drinker FOREVER and I am soo glad its been 10 years w/o my husband and his drinking THANK GOD !. I divorced 10 years ago and will never regret that decision. His drinking destroyed everything.....

 

You know, I constantly state that I won't go back to him because of the pain he's caused me, which is true, but another factor in this is his drinking. I can NOT live with a drunk. While he was with me, he never drank because he knew doing so would be a deal breaker in our relationship. But I know he struggled to stay away from the alcohol. And I also knew that sooner or later he'd break down and hit the bottle. I never once fooled myself into thinking that he'd stay away from it for the remainder of our lives. As you can see, although we have strong chemistry and love for one another, we also have some serious issues we'd have to overcome. But now, with all that has happened, there's no way it could work.

 

Sounds like you had a painful time in your life with your alcoholic ex. It's a terrible thing to have to deal with, but more so, live with. Congrats on your strength and good sense to get out of it!!

 

~T~

 

I've heard the phrase " Love is Stupid " Love is Blind " Well.. we know those for a fact to be true. We act stupid when we are in love. We act blind to their faults .

We love far longer than we should in a damaging relationship. No doubt.

 

I don' t know the cure because we as humans love to be in love ! darnit ! lol

[Tormented]

[quote=MagnoliaJane;1000172While it must feel good to know he loves you, he still f*cked up big time by taking borderline in, in the first place. Secondly, he f*cked up by being too much of a coward for not facing you or let you know how profoundly sorry he is for having f*cked up big time.

Thirdly, his drinking issue is really worrisome! Drinkers tend to be cheaters too, because they don't want to face reality and choose to numb themselves.

 

As always, you offer sound advice, Magnolia. And once again, I thank you.

 

Yes, he did f*ck up when he moved borderline in, something I can NEVER forget, nor forgive...not after the deep pain it's caused me. But the biggest factor in this is his failure to suck it up and take responsibility for what he did. Learning what I recently have would've meant so much more to me had HE told me himself instead of hearing it 3rd party. I can't respect him for choosing the coward's way out on this. HE caused the pain and it should be HIM to help ease it. Not his sister nor anybody else. Instead, he drowns his guilt/feelings in alcohol and opts to stick his head in the sand. And for this, I can not forgive him.

 

I may seem very judgmental here, I am trying not to be but truth is, you can't help those who don't want to be helped because they can't help themselves. An explanation is no justification... It's sad, it's so, so sad, but it is a reality...

 

No, you are not being judgemental here, but rather, honest. I do appreciate your candid approach to this. The truth isn't always the easiest pill to swallow, but if you hope to heal, it is the best.

 

Me too, I hate to let go of him who has cowardly ran away from me but still claims to love me. What is his love worth? Why doesn't it stimulate him to heal and take up some responsibility and work on the relationship? Probably because that's too difficult and difficult things should be avoided, treated with silence, or numbed with alcohol. Besides, everything is someone else's fault anyway.

 

Amen to that! The inability to take responsibility and DEAL with the difficulties in life is precisely WHY they are cowards. And when it comes to cowards, the one and ONLY consistancy in their lives is that they will choose the "easy" route in every situation that generates discomfort. And, I agree, this includes the "blame game." Nevernevernever is it *THEIR* fault. Oh Lord, I can't even begin to count the times I've heard my ex blame others for his problems. Guess the one bright spot to this whole ordeal is that I won't have to listen to it again.

 

I had such a wonderful time with my ex, but these reasons are why I never can go back to him, and rather prefer to be on my own. I'm not ready to face the world (yet) so it's solitary and lonely, and it's just me without reaching out, in fact I want to be alone, and I'll rather die than pick up that phone and talk to him, even though he told me "I can always contact him by any means". To tell what?

 

Basically, this is what I have done. Gone into seclusion. My family and friends are a bit concerned as they see this "unhealthy." What they don't understand is that I NEED to do this right now. Be alone, reflect, regroup. Won't last forever. I'll be out and about again, but in my time and when I'm ready. I'm just not a lot of fun to be around right now and have no desire to be amongst others. Can't see the point in forcing myself to do something I honestly don't have the heart for.

 

The veil has been lifted, and there's no pretending anymore. The game is over. Nobody won.

 

For my ex and I...the final score is: 0-0. We both lost.

 

Nobody has ever died of a broken heart, but it can take a darn long time before the heart starts ticking again like it once used to...

 

True enough, but it sure as hell FEELS like you're going to die on some days. I never again want to go through the pain and hell as I have the past few months. I wonder how much longer I'll feel this way. How much longer the pain will last. And the fact that I see my ex frequently isn't helping matters.

 

~T~

[Tormented]

What if you could forgive him ? What if he went into Alcohol Treatment ? Giving him 6 months of sobriety ? Some counseling ? To deal with all this ?

If he agrees then you did better than I because mine refused until it was too late...

 

Okay, so let's say he went through a sobriety treatment program and he found a way to recover, to stay sober. That would definitely help in the drinking department, but it would do squat to boost my trust in him after his betrayal. He has proven himself unsteady and that's not something I could live with. Everytime I'd look at him I'd think about what he did, and the hell he put me through. I know me and I know that's exactly what I would do. Which, of course, would lead to a lot of discord in our relationship. I guess it would boil down to how patient he'd be while I learned to trust him once again....which could take a loooong time. Personally, I don't think he's got what he would take. I could be wrong. He could love me enough to stick in there and do what it takes to make it work...but I've got my doubts.

 

How much do you love him ? How much are you willing to work on and forgive. ? What if you could look past everything and see he was a hurting soul with a disease ?

 

I think my above statement answers most of these questions except for the degree of love I have for him.

 

Truth? I love this man VERY deeply and that's why I hurt. Everytime I see him, Mary, I want to cry. I want so much to hold him, and to be held by him. But then - there's this part of me that wants to plant my fist square in his face!

 

Oh, Lordy...this is awful. It truly is.

 

What do you think will happen here, Mary? What's your honest opinion?

 

~T~

[Greensleaves]

Dear Tormented,

 

don't get me wrong, I know that you are in a turmoil because knowing that there is love on both sides, but the situation doesn't allow it, is just heart breaking. But we kinda knew before that your Ex still cares and now you know for sure, we also knew that knowing the truth might send you in a tailspin. Tormented, there isn't any winning situation as you said, because with either news you would have been unhappy, even if you hadn't found out. For sure it might seem as if not knowing had been better, but you would have kept on asking yourself and honestly knowing the thruth will allow you to move on after a while despite the relapse you are going through now.

 

You have to listen to your heart and your soul and if you are sure you can't forgive him or even if you could and you are sure that getting back together will cause too many problems in the longer run because he is a drinker and won't stay away from it, then that's all set.

He for sure took some efforts and he for sure still loves you, but he made some big mistakes and will still make more. Like we said before, we are all human beings and come with a package and flaws and if our partners' flaws and their packages are too much to bear, then we should just not continue as we will be unhappy in the longer run.

For sure your Ex being an alcoholic and irresponsible and all about "paying back" and controls comes with a package that is difficult to swallow and nobody will ever blame you for not taking it on board again or forgiving him, Tormented. Maybe you can look at it as a very painful experience but vital one: you wouldn't have been happy with him in the long run anyway because you already knew or almost expected that he will go back into his drinking mode and you can't live with a drunk. (Understandably so, nobody can!)

 

The way I see it is that you love him a lot and now your heart burns even more because knowing that he still loves you, ignited it again. And our hearts tend to be stubborn....

Your head however already told you before the breakup (which is probably why you went on it...) that maintaining the relationship with this man will almost inevitably lead to trouble or at least be very very difficult.

 

You basically gotta let your heart or your head win and it sounds as if letting the head win will by far be the safer option for your sanity and your longterm happiness. I think part of the hurt stems from the fact that your heart and head can't agree on this matter.

 

 

"Better" to me would have been for HIM to tell me these things himself. Yes, I understand that he's leary to approach me (and rightfully so after what he's done), but if he was an honorable man, he would've sucked it up and took what was coming to him. I would have respected him for taking responsibility and caring enough to come to me and at least TRY to ease the pain HE has caused. Instead, he opted for the coward's way out, and as a result, his supposed "love" for me doesn't mean as much. Not when I have to hear it through a 3rd party.

 

 

Oh for sure, no doubt about that. It would have been way better if he told you himself. We all agree on that. He was scared, though. He knows what he has done and just didn't know how to go on about it. And he has got issues. For sure a stronger person or a guy who's mentally a bit stronger or generally healthier than your Ex probably would have approached you in person. You know, maybe you can take this as a deciding factor: this is not how I want my partner to be and part of me is glad he executed it in such a bad way because even though I hurt a lot now, it is much better to let it end now in pain than staying with him and enduring endless pains ...

 

 

 

 

This is SO damn hard!

 

~T~

 

I know, Tormented, I know, and for once I phrased my post a bit more provocative than usual and hope you won't get me wrong.

 

See it as good news that will let you get a closure one way or another. And even though it is difficult to see it that way, there is some truth in what Cossette4 wrote: Many on this board would give half their arm for the news you received. I am not saying that once you have it, it all becomes a bed of roses, of course not. However, take pride in the fact that at least your love instincts weren't wrong; this man did love you as much as you did, but your "packages" and your characters are just not that compatible despite your chemistry. It is sad, for sure, but there is nothing you can do.

 

Take your time, reflect on it but you know this might be the last time you have to cross this valley.

 

XO

Green

[Greensleaves]

Uhh, Tormented, you have soo much food for thoughts and opinions to digest already, however, I need to add this:

 

I once was torn between HEAD and HEART and let my HEART win. It went wrong and caused me lots of pain and still does.

 

Would I choose the HEAD next time? No, not necessarily, because I realised one big mistake of mine: even though I followed my HEART, I didn't silence my HEAD. So my HEAD continued to mourn and make me question my decision and after a while I was subconsciously looking for signs that my HEAD was right and found many many many. It eventually led to the breakdown of the relationship.

 

Oh, you know, the relationship might have failed anyways, but for sure, my HEAD (and consequently the bad vibes I was sending out) expedited it and worse of all: didn't let me fully enjoy it and be happy while the relationship was still working just because subconsciously I was overly critical on everything.

 

To cut a long story short: whatever you decide, Tormented, make sure that even though parts of you won't agree that they will accept it and then don't look back. Listen to the one that you makes you most comfortable and will let you regret the least in the long run...

 

I know it's difficult.

 

But we are all here if you want to write about it.

 

Take care.

Green

[Mary3]

I think my above statement answers most of these questions except for the degree of love I have for him.

 

Truth? I love this man VERY deeply and that's why I hurt. Everytime I see him, Mary, I want to cry. I want so much to hold him, and to be held by him. But then - there's this part of me that wants to plant my fist square in his face!

 

Oh, Lordy...this is awful. It truly is.

 

What do you think will happen here, Mary? What's your honest opinion?

 

~T~

 

If the song is true : Love breaks your heart . Love takes everything. Love makes it hard . And it fades away so easily....well NOW you are in control here.

 

What do you want here ? Do you want him to whither away and die , get out of your life and stay out of it ? Or do you think love conquers all ? Could you imagine your life again with this man and accept that he is not perfect , ( nor are we ) and that the love bond is stronger than the strongest super glue immaginable ? YOU hold all the cards here ( and rightly so )

 

If it were me ,knowing EVERYTHING you have told me , I think I would give this man a chance ! * IF * he went into treatment ( and they can and do get sober ) and they can stay sober. The fact that you left his life and started downing the * sauce * just means he does not know how to control his life or urges for alcohol. Know its a long road ahead if you take the love of you life back.

 

Many people forever search for love. You have it right here ! You have it right in your hands. How much do you love this man. ? Knowing I have never found anyone again like my one bf of 4 years I would give my eye teeth to have back what I had....sooo....the ball is in your court .

 

Can't trust him ? Take and disect EVERYTHING he did. Go back and read your entire post logs. If in all that you determine that he did alot of this out of stupidity and just being plain dumb then he is entitled to f* up . But how much can you forgive ?

 

Then you have the trust issues. Can you trust that he will never succumb to cheating or moving in dirtbags ? Why did he do that ? Is it a deeper issue ?

 

Get some mutual counseling together and build back the trust. Don't ever trust anyone 100% I have heard thus if things don't work out you can pull back and know you gave him a fair second chance.

 

Its all up to you. What can you live with ? What can you live without ?

[Greensleaves]

Mary, just short, perfect post! Love it.

 

Green

[Cossette4]

I guess I always assumed knowing the truth would set me free, whether it was the truth I wanted to hear or not. But I totally understand how you feel set back, because whenever I would get the feeling that I bet he still does care, I would feel like, "Wow! Good job ruining everything! If you just would have done the break up normally and with a dash of respect, we could still be on good terms and think, hey, maybe one day we can give it another go if we both feel the same way!" But now, you've totally ruined our 5 years together with a cowardly betrayal break-up!"

 

To answer your question...

 

Together for 5 years and 4 months...

He broke up with me OVER THE PHONE while I was away on business on July 15th.

I come home August 12th to discover he is already living with another girl and refuses to see or speak to me.

Our mutual friends finally force him to grow up and we have a face-to-face meeting on August 22nd, and then again on August 24th. (combined meeting time--45 minutes b/c he freaked out and wanted to get back to his new g/f asap).

His best friend refused to speak to him so he thought he could regain his friendship by giving me a phone call on Sept. 13th (so sad that it wasn't because he cared about me or how I was doing but was just trying to regain his reputation among friends.)

And then I had a freak-out night and called him (like a huge pathetic idiot) on Sept. 18th.

Haven't seen or spoken to him since.

 

The only thing I can say about your situation, even though you feel like it's a set-back, is at least the truth you found out brought you BOTH down to a level of sadness and hurt. At least he is suffering for his actions, too--not just you. I'd rather know he paid for what he did to me emotionally, hurting just as much as I am hurting, plus having the extra burden of guilt and shame.

 

If you can never be with him again, at least you can walk away knowing he sees it as a punishment and a fatal consequence of his actions, rather than just thinking, "Good, I don't even care that I'm not with her--I'm happy with someone else!"

 

My worst fear is my ex-bf feels absolutely no hurt, sadness, shame, etc. and is just happy as a clam with his new girlfriend. For me, I feel like it's harder to "get over" the fact that someone who "loved me" could just shatter me, walk away, and quickly find happiness, never feeling terrible about his actions and never missing me. And while finding out that he may still love me and miss me might set me back a little, it would make more sense in my heart and make me feel a little less worthless in the situation.

[B-3128]

He's numbed up...

 

Don't worry. Like all painkillers, it will wear off. One day, he'll wake up and feel the sting of how badly he's treated you. He'll miss you. You'll be miles ahead by then. Trust me... these people ALL screw us over because they don't love themselves enough. You think you're in the s**t... wait till it hits him... he will envy the state you are in now, so it must be bad!

 

B

[MOMMIE]

i know it hurts, but it sounds like you know what you have to do...stay strong....

[Tormented]

Tormented, there isn't any winning situation as you said, because with either news you would have been unhappy, even if you hadn't found out.

 

This weekend has been sheer hell for me. Can't eat, can't sleep and I hate it. You're right, the NOT knowing kept me in a state of distress from day one. I wanted to know - NEEDED to know to help ease my pain. But I wanted HIM to tell me...to pick up the phone, knock on my door, or by whatever means he chose to let me know how he felt and his remorse for breaking my heart. Even if he did so without the intention of reconciliation, it would have meant a lot to me that he cared enough to consider my feelings and well-being, no matter what wrath he may face. But now, even though I know, I feel as though salt has been rubbed into the wound and it sucks. There are days, like this weekend, that I wish I had never met him.

 

You have to listen to your heart and your soul and if you are sure you can't forgive him or even if you could and you are sure that getting back together will cause too many problems in the longer run because he is a drinker and won't stay away from it, then that's all set.

 

I haven't received any "weird" phone calls this weekend, and I half expected it because we saw each other last Friday when he drove by me as I was coming out of the beauty salon. We locked eyes for a few seconds, and he smiled and waved. I didn't wave back, I turned away and headed toward my car. Had I waved back, he MIGHT have worked up the nerve to call me because I've no doubt his sister told him she talked to me and what was said. But the fact that I looked away from him most likely appeared hostile. I don't know what he expects from me. He hurt me deeply and I just can't bring myself to smile and wave back as though everything he did is A-okay. If he thinks or expects that, then the alcohol has finally picked his brain!

 

Although I've received no phone calls, my son and I *think* we saw him drive by on his motorcycle yesterday afternoon. My house sits upon a hill and I can see the main highway from my front deck. While sitting out there, my son said..."Hey mom, isn't that Bill's bike?" I looked down and it DID look like his bike. He use to drive through my "territory" during previous breakups in the past, even though we live 16 miles apart and he has no reason to come this way. He admitted to doing so, and I do believe it was him. He's making this VERY hard for me. It's as though he WANTS to stay in my line of sight, which, of course, keeps him in my mind. And it's working!

 

He for sure took some efforts and he for sure still loves you, but he made some big mistakes and will still make more. Like we said before, we are all human beings and come with a package and flaws and if our partners' flaws and their packages are too much to bear, then we should just not continue as we will be unhappy in the longer run.

 

Yep, it's a suckie predicament for sure. Sort of a 'damn if you do, damn if you don't' situation. The BIG picture tells me to cut my losses and move on because if I don't, I'm in for a much, much larger heartache down the road. The smaller picture, the 'here and now,' tells me forgive him, to take the risk, to ease my pain. But really, that's like applying a bandaid where surgery is needed. A temporary fix isn't the answer and I know it. Or, at least...my brain knows it. My heart? A whole different matter. Once again, my heart and brain are doing battle and I'm flopping around in bed at night like a fish out of water. Guess it's time to pop Benadryl again to get some sleep. This sucks!

 

For sure your Ex being an alcoholic and irresponsible and all about "paying back" and controls comes with a package that is difficult to swallow and nobody will ever blame you for not taking it on board again or forgiving him, Tormented. Maybe you can look at it as a very painful experience but vital one: you wouldn't have been happy with him in the long run anyway because you already knew or almost expected that he will go back into his drinking mode and you can't live with a drunk. (Understandably so, nobody can!)

 

You have just parroted my brain. He's an alcoholic, he's unstable, he's a cheater, he's a liar, he's a coward. All arguments my brain offers.

 

But, but, but...he kicked her out because he loves YOU. He is mourning you, he is missing you, he can't forget you. He made a mistake, a terrible mistake...we all do, and deserves a second chance. You're making a mistake, you're turning your back on love and you'll regret it in the future. All the agruments my heart offers.

 

And I'm in the middle, covering my ears and screaming at them BOTH to shut up! I know that sounds crazy, but it's the best way I can describe how I feel right now...a tug-o'-war game that I wish to God I could break free of.

 

You know, maybe you can take this as a deciding factor: this is not how I want my partner to be and part of me is glad he executed it in such a bad way because even though I hurt a lot now, it is much better to let it end now in pain than staying with him and enduring endless pains ...

 

Well, it's basically the road I've been taking - to stay away from him so that I could heal, and EVENTUALLY move on. I've been going out more, have taken up painting again, have gone out on a few dates, and even find myself smiling back at men who smile at me. And when I feel myself weakening, I come here and pound out my frustration/hurt on the keyboard. God knows I've done everything accessible to me to get over him, to move on for those very same issues you mention above. You know, a thought occured to me this weekend. Maybe he hasn't contacted me or tried the direct approach because he KNOWS he doesn't deserve a second chance...doesn't deserve ME after what he's done. I wonder sometimes if he's punishing himself.

 

there is some truth in what Cossette4 wrote: Many on this board would give half their arm for the news you received. I am not saying that once you have it, it all becomes a bed of roses, of course not. However, take pride in the fact that at least your love instincts weren't wrong; this man did love you as much as you did, but your "packages" and your characters are just not that compatible despite your chemistry. It is sad, for sure, but there is nothing you can do.

 

I do understand where Cossette is coming from...I've spent 3 months struggling with the "why's." And now I know through 3rd party. NOT through him, but through his sister. Yes, it is comforting to know that he still loves me, that our relationship wasn't founded on a complete lie - a pseudo-love, but knowing this has somehow made it more difficult. It's like having to pull the plug on something that is still alive but beyond repair.

 

And that can't be done without a lot of pain.

 

I love this man. I truly do. Despite his list of issues and the pain he's caused me, I can't kill the love I hold for him. God knows I've tried. So, I guess at this point I need to relax and allow time to do its thing...to slowly but gently put it to sleep and end the pain. There really is nothing more I can do.

 

I just wish time wasn't so slow.

 

~T~

[Tormented]

I once was torn between HEAD and HEART and let my HEART win. It went wrong and caused me lots of pain and still does. [/b]

 

That's because the heart is so vulnerable, and in many ways, more powerful than the head. Or, at least, it seems to be the case for most women. Men tend to lead with their heads more, not in all cases, of course, but more so than us women. Guess that's why there's songs such as..."Only women bleed."

 

Would I choose the HEAD next time? No, not necessarily, because I realised one big mistake of mine: even though I followed my HEART, I didn't silence my HEAD. So my HEAD continued to mourn and make me question my decision and after a while I was subconsciously looking for signs that my HEAD was right and found many many many. It eventually led to the breakdown of the relationship.

 

Exactly!!! I KNOW for a fact that if I allowed my heart to win and he and I reconciled, I would STILL be angry about the hurt he caused which would AGAIN lead to yet another breakup and heartache. It would sabotage the relationship before given a chance to blossom. So why bother? Yet...here I am - missing him, fantasizing about a "happily ever after" scenario.

 

Damn, I'm a mess!

 

Oh, you know, the relationship might have failed anyways, but for sure, my HEAD (and consequently the bad vibes I was sending out) expedited it and worse of all: didn't let me fully enjoy it and be happy while the relationship was still working just because subconsciously I was overly critical on everything.

 

Easy to do when your heart has been torn from your chest and stomped on by the one you loved.

 

To cut a long story short: whatever you decide, Tormented, make sure that even though parts of you won't agree that they will accept it and then don't look back. Listen to the one that you makes you most comfortable and will let you regret the least in the long run...

 

Yep, and there it is...."in the long run." Wouldn't it be great if we all came equipped with a crystal ball to show us what is best in "the long run?"

 

But...that's not the case. Instead, we travel through this life, doing the best we can, and forced to shoot from the dark with the hope we hit the target, or at least, came close.

 

Boy...aren't *I* just a bucket of laughs this morning!

 

~T~

[Tormented]

What do you want here ? Do you want him to whither away and die , get out of your life and stay out of it ? Or do you think love conquers all ?

 

The truth? I want all of the above....with the exception of him whithering away and dying, of course.

 

I want him to get out of my life...

 

I want him in my life...

 

I want a quick fix...

 

I want to hold him, I want him to hold me...

 

I want to walk away WITHOUT the pain...

 

I WANT TO STOP THIS IRRATIONAL THOUGHT PROCESS!!! I WANT IT TO END, ONE WAY OR THE OTHER!!!

 

Could you imagine your life again with this man and accept that he is not perfect , ( nor are we ) and that the love bond is stronger than the strongest super glue immaginable ? YOU hold all the cards here ( and rightly so )

 

Imperfection I can accept, just as I hope others can accept me for my imperfections...and I've got many. But there are boundaries as to what I can and can not accept. And one of them is *unchecked* alcoholism. The other is lying/cheating. Trust is the main root of love. Without it, the rest will die. He has broken that trust. Can it be regained? I don't know, I truly don't. And that's what keeps me in this undecisive turmoil. He and I haven't even talked yet, so how can I make a solid decision? Truth is, I can't. I may never know because I will NEVER call him. If we are to talk, it will have to be his move. And he doesn't seem to have the guts to do it.

 

If it were me ,knowing EVERYTHING you have told me , I think I would give this man a chance ! * IF * he went into treatment ( and they can and do get sober ) and they can stay sober. The fact that you left his life and started downing the * sauce * just means he does not know how to control his life or urges for alcohol. Know its a long road ahead if you take the love of you life back.

 

Sometimes, Mary, the thought of all the work we'd have in front of us should we ever decide to reconcile and make it work is enough to make me tired and discouraged. And that's just THINKING about it. Can it be done? Yeah, probably...but it would be damn hard on us both. Do I want to? Well now...there's the big question, isn't it? I guess it depends upon what day you ask me this as to what answer I will render. Some days I feel I could do this because of my strong love for him. Other days I'd answer with a resounding "HELL NO." Most the time I feel I'm in limbo...not sure as to how I feel. Ain't love grand???

 

Many people forever search for love. You have it right here ! You have it right in your hands. How much do you love this man. ? Knowing I have never found anyone again like my one bf of 4 years I would give my eye teeth to have back what I had....sooo....the ball is in your court .

 

Yes, but what good is love when it fails to bring the comfort and joy it's suppose to? That's like suffering the side effects of a medication without the benefit of a cure. So, do I continue to take this medication with the hope that it will eventually pay off, or do I put the cap back on the bottle and place it back on the shelf? I don't know...

 

Can't trust him ? Take and disect EVERYTHING he did. Go back and read your entire post logs. If in all that you determine that he did alot of this out of stupidity and just being plain dumb then he is entitled to f* up . But how much can you forgive ?

 

Here's the deal. If he had done this out of simple stupidy, then I could more easily forgive him. But knowing him the way I do, I think he did it out of spite...to hurt me. To "even the score" for my walking out on him. And when it didn't work, when it failed to bring me back...he kicked her out. The game was over. And NOW, he regrets what he did. NOW he knows he went too far and he doesn't know what the hell to do. He knows he's guilty, he knows he hasn't a leg to stand on in his defense. And rather than sucking it up and facing up to what he did, he chooses to drown his "sorrow and guilt" in a bottle. And I can't respect him for it. It's the coward's way and I expect more from him. If I took the first step, made it easier for him, then I become the enabler. And I won't do that, because if I did it now, then I can pretty much plan on doing it for the remainder of our lives. Nope, I can't...I won't.

 

Get some mutual counseling together and build back the trust. Don't ever trust anyone 100% I have heard thus if things don't work out you can pull back and know you gave him a fair second chance.

 

This I would be game for, but he'd have to admit he's got some serious issues to deal with. Will he? I don't know. He's great in the "blame game"...nothing ever being "his fault." You would think at his age (mid 40's) he would have learned by now.

 

*sigh*

 

~T~

[MagnoliaJane]

T,

 

Even if he still loves you, actions speak louder than words...

 

So, question: why is it so important that he still loves you, after all?

 

My advice: love yourself more!

 

Magnolia

[Tormented]

I guess I always assumed knowing the truth would set me free, whether it was the truth I wanted to hear or not. But I totally understand how you feel set back, because whenever I would get the feeling that I bet he still does care, I would feel like, "Wow! Good job ruining everything!

 

That's precisely it, Cossette. When you DO discovery the truth, your feelings shift from sorrow/pain to deep anger...especially so if you learn that he DOES still care. But the point is, let it be sorrow/pain or anger - you still find yourself in a state of perpetual anguish, one way or the other. Doesn't seem to be a winning situation. And so, his poor choices and stupidity has caused *you* deep pain, as though it were YOU who had comitted the crime. And you know, something about that pisses you off. But I guess it's as they say..."all is fair in love and war." Yeah....bulls*it! Nothing fair or just about it.

 

 

He broke up with me OVER THE PHONE while I was away on business on July 15th.

 

Coward!

I come home August 12th to discover he is already living with another girl and refuses to see or speak to me.

 

Well, of course! That's the coward's way...to do these dirty little deeds and then quickly duck the consequences. And worse, lie to themselves and everybody else to justify what they KNOW is wrong. And I think in cases such as yours and mine, this makes it doubly hard to move on. NOBODY enjoys being betrayed and then disregarded as though we were mere disposable objects that were no longer needed, or worse, traded in for another that they THOUGHT was a better deal. Damnit...we are HUMAN beings with REAL feelings and we want the respect we deserve. And until we get it, we remain in a whirlwind of rage/pain/sorrow. Just as they would be had we done it to THEM. Oh Cossette...I DO understand your pain and anger. Boy oh boy do I!!

 

Our mutual friends finally force him to grow up and we have a face-to-face meeting on August 22nd, and then again on August 24th. (combined meeting time--45 minutes b/c he freaked out and wanted to get back to his new g/f asap).

 

You mean...he wanted to get back to his CRUTCH. To his enabling "substitute" who is making no demands on him. He couldn't handle the discomfort of what HE caused, so he desired to escape. Apparently, it is okay for YOU to be stuck in a painful place...but HE couldn't handle it. I don't think it was about the new g/f as it was about *his* comfort level.

What a selfish b*stard. I should know because my ex is one. They leave us in ruins and then act "clueless" as to WHY we feel as strongly as we do. If the shoes were reversed and it was THEM left in the dark, I wonder how well they'd do with it. Something tells me they would be freaking out worse than we have/are.

 

His best friend refused to speak to him so he thought he could regain his friendship by giving me a phone call on Sept. 13th (so sad that it wasn't because he cared about me or how I was doing but was just trying to regain his reputation among friends.)

 

Manipulation in it's highest form. I certainly hope his friends had the wisdom to see through this sham. Does he really believe that one pathetic phone call is going to eclipse what he did to you? You know, sometimes you don't know what pisses you off more. The fact that they break your heart in such a cruel manner, or insulting your intelligence with such a feeble attempt.

 

And then I had a freak-out night and called him (like a huge pathetic idiot) on Sept. 18th.

Haven't seen or spoken to him since.

 

Yeah, well...the truth hurts. Which is WHY they avoid it like the plague. Yours through his female crutch, mine through the bottle. Either way, it's a losing situation.

 

The only thing I can say about your situation, even though you feel like it's a set-back, is at least the truth you found out brought you BOTH down to a level of sadness and hurt. At least he is suffering for his actions, too--not just you. I'd rather know he paid for what he did to me emotionally, hurting just as much as I am hurting, plus having the extra burden of guilt and shame.

 

Yes, but the fact that I had to learn it through a 3rd party gains no points for him. The fact that he hasn't the balls to face me and tell me himself has added to my anger. His sister said that he still loves me. But I guess his love isn't strong enough to overcome his fear of my reaction should he decide to face me. Apparently it's not strong enough to attempt easing the pain HE'S caused. Again...it's about *their* comfort level and the hell with us. So, knowing that he still loves me brings NO comfort or joy...only contempt that he robbed us both of something that COULD have brought us a lifetime of happiness. I hope he thinks about that. I hope he realizes what he's done...to BOTH of us.

 

If you can never be with him again, at least you can walk away knowing he sees it as a punishment and a fatal consequence of his actions, rather than just thinking, "Good, I don't even care that I'm not with her--I'm happy with someone else!"

 

Naw, he's too busy marinating his brain in alcohol to realize the devestation he's caused. According to his sister, he DOES hurt, he is suffering, but I doubt it's to the degree I am. You see, I'm facing this thing straight on without the aid of alcohol, drugs, or rebounds. As for the borderline (the someone else), he quickly discovered that she wasn't going to supply him with the "fix" as she apparently did in the past. Quite frankly, I was surprised to hear that he kicked her out as soon as he did. This is a man who can NOT be alone...something he once told me. No matter how bad things were between he and her, knowing him the way I do, I would have bet that he would have kept her around, just to keep from being alone if anything. So, yes - I'm very surprised that he didn't stay with her. Instead, he opted for the bottle to supply his 'fix.' Either way, he's a coward. And so is yours.

 

My worst fear is my ex-bf feels absolutely no hurt, sadness, shame, etc. and is just happy as a clam with his new girlfriend. For me, I feel like it's harder to "get over" the fact that someone who "loved me" could just shatter me, walk away, and quickly find happiness, never feeling terrible about his actions and never missing me. And while finding out that he may still love me and miss me might set me back a little, it would make more sense in my heart and make me feel a little less worthless in the situation.

 

No, you're wrong. Apparently he DOES feel some hurt/sadness/shame as evidenced by his hurry to sever the meeting with you. It is BECAUSE he felt the above emotions that he found intolerable to face you. That's precisely why he can't look you in the eye for any period of time, and why you don't hear from him. He can't handle what he's done so he prefers to "pretend" he's in love with this girl with the hope that some day he'll convince HIMSELF of it. He knows what he's doing is wrong. He damn well knows that if it was done to him he'd feel deep pain. And he feels guilty because of it. And there is absolutely NO way he can just "forget" the past 5 years of his life...which was spent with YOU. My guess? He probably has thoughts of you, of times you two spent together, or things you've said to one another several times throughout the day. And I've no doubt he wonders frequently if he's made a horrible mistake. But even if he realizes he has, how can he come to you and explain WHY he did what he did when he probably doesn't even understand it. And so, he continues to "act" happy, "act" like he doesn't care. Of course he does. Five years is a big chunk out of one's life. But I do understand that you'd like to know for sure. I've spent the past 3 months wondering, crying about the same thing. And now I know. But guess what? No magic, no cure came with it.

 

Hang in there, Cossette. I completely understand how you feel...where you're at. I'm in your shoes.

 

~T~

[Tormented]

He's numbed up...

 

The coward's way.

 

Don't worry. Like all painkillers, it will wear off. One day, he'll wake up and feel the sting of how badly he's treated you. He'll miss you. You'll be miles ahead by then. Trust me... these people ALL screw us over because they don't love themselves enough. You think you're in the s**t... wait till it hits him... he will envy the state you are in now, so it must be bad!

 

Well, apparently boderline didn't do it for him, so he hit the bottle. God forbid he should face this demon WITHOUT an aid of some type. You know, if he ever did perhaps he'd get better and begin feeling better about himself. But until that happens, he'll continue to stumble through life as the miserable soul he obviously is. What a waste!

 

Hey B, how come you've been so quiet lately? We haven't been hearing from you much. How are you doing with your situation? Have you heard anymore from her?

 

Come back, B. I miss you.

 

~T~

[Tormented]

T,

 

Even if he still loves you, actions speak louder than words...

 

I know, which is why I have refused to contact him throughout this time. I can NOT forget (nor forgive) his actions.

 

So, question: why is it so important that he still loves you, after all?

 

Simply put...because I'm still in love with him. Why? Who in the hell knows...certainly not I! But then, when has love ever been logical? Oh, the day will come when I'll look back at all of this and shake my head at my own stupidity for all the anguish I put myself through.

 

Unfortunately...that day is NOT today.

 

My advice: love yourself more!

 

And good advice it is...as always. I do love myself. If I didn't, I would have been at his front door by now. But my love of self and self-respect won't allow it.

 

And the day will come that I'll thank "myself" for it.

 

~T~

[Tormented]

i know it hurts, but it sounds like you know what you have to do...stay strong....

 

Yep, easier said than done. My wisdom and strength has carried me this far, but sometimes I get weak.

 

Thank God for this board and the people here!

 

~T~