Cossette4 Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 Tormented, I have to tell you that I love reading your responses--they always make me feel so much better when I am down. I find myself going, "Yeah! Yeah exactly!" when I read your posts, so thanks! (Haha). Anyway, I wanted to tell you this problem I've been dealing with, being in the "Not Knowing The Truth" realm. Since, until recently, you were there, I thought you could maybe give your opinion. The way I see it, there's one of two reasons why he isn't contacting me, apologizing to me, and still living with his new girlfriend for the past 4 months. Either A) he is rebounding and she is his crutch or B) he became emotionally detached from me months prior to the break-up so the day the break-up came, he was totally healed and ready to move on with someone else. In scenerio A), he is a miserable wreck, whereas in scenerio B) he's truly happy and never even thinks of me or misses me. Obviously, scenerio B makes me more angry and disturbs me for the following reasons: First, just two weeks before the break-up, he flew out to visit me, bought me flowers for no reason, and talked about how neat it would be to show photos of all of the places we've travelled during our wedding reception if we ever got married one day. So if he was emotionally detached at this time, then all of these actions were a sham and I feel betrayed and sickened. Second, the girl he is with is seriously TRASH, and I am not in the least exaggerating. She is a high-school drop-out, unemployed, and my friends found pictures of her on the Internet where she's wrapped herself in nothing but duct-tape and bubble wrap, asking Internet strangers to rate her attractiveness (I wish I were joking). She's openly professed on her blog that she's bisexual and describes which kind of girls are "hot." (Note: I don't mean to come across as judgmental about any particular sexuality, but I KNOW my ex-bf and I know that he isn't attracted to girls with that sexual preference). Then to top it off, she let him move in with her within a week of knowing her. I basically feel like a guest on a Jerry Springer episode when I discuss her, and that's so NOT me or my lifestyle in any way. To see this girl as anything other than a rebound is not registering in my brain. However, I was reading a thread on here entitled "You know it was the right thing to do because..." where a guy talks about how he pretty much got fed up with his girlfriend distancing him, putting him down, etc. and finally he said, "Well, I ended it last week. After 3 years of up and down, on and off, the simple offense of her not returning calls one day was all it took for me to flip my internal switch this time. As I was looking down at a $5,000 ring I bought her for Xmas.... and she couldn't even return my phone calls....As for me, I know I made the right choice because I don't feel pain over the loss....I don't miss her....I feel confident and at peace with my decision now, and even a teeny bit excited that I'll find someone better for me." And it made me worry, could that be what my ex-bf did to me and that's how he thinks of me now? I DO admit I lost my temper sometimes, and I didn't always let him know how much he meant to me. After 5 years, sometimes I took him for granted. A part of me worries he just saw all my yelling as b*tching and felt I didn't care about him and just thought, "Screw her!" and honestly doesn't feel any remorse or miss me at all. Yet if this is the case, why the cowardly treatment and why the UNBELIEVABLE new girlfriend? Link to post Share on other sites
shoesies05 Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 He's a jerk. Thats the nicest i can put it, just forget him. I know it will be hard to just leave the life you had with him behind but you will be better off in the end. Your conscious was telling you he was dishonest fromt he begining- sadly you had to find out the hard way. Luckily you found out though, right? Link to post Share on other sites
Greensleaves Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 And it made me worry, could that be what my ex-bf did to me and that's how he thinks of me now? I DO admit I lost my temper sometimes, and I didn't always let him know how much he meant to me. After 5 years, sometimes I took him for granted. A part of me worries he just saw all my yelling as b*tching and felt I didn't care about him and just thought, "Screw her!" and honestly doesn't feel any remorse or miss me at all. Yet if this is the case, why the cowardly treatment and why the UNBELIEVABLE new girlfriend? Cossette4, by the sounds of it, the new girl can't be more than a rebound. Even if your Ex enjoys now that she doesn't make any demands on him I don't think that he will be happy with her in the longer run and I am pretty sure he knows it. Maybe he was frustrated that you were so independant, that you didn't always show your feelings, that you were yelling occasionally. Maybe he is a person that keeps that all in without any communication. And when such people change their lives it seems to be on a rather impulsive note for everyone else but themselves. Obviously your Ex wasn't quite sure what he was lacking or why he felt like doing what he did and that's why he chose the coward road of not discussing it with you properly. Not very impressive of course and all his friends seem to think the same, too. (My Ex broke up on the phone on a rather impulsive note, too and only spoke to me after everybody said he ought to; not that it helped that much, I am still pretty much in the dark when it comes to reasons except for the ones that I singled out by now by analyzing and re-analyzing the situation; they are not too flattering for both of us, me and him and I wished we had communicated better in the past. ...) I am sorry you are hurt and feel bad. And I do sincerely hope that you will have another chance to discuss the reasons with him or hear it from a 3rd party. Even though we know by now that this entails its own problems... I am sure he still thinks of you and I am sure he is not too proud of how he executed it all. It sounds as if he is confused and in denial, because that's easier and less painful. At least all your common friends seem to take your side, so it is nice to have some support. Green Link to post Share on other sites
Greensleaves Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 Dear Tormented, from what I gather this is not so much about him, what he did, should have done, could have done. Let's be honest, even if he had told you directly you would still have enough reasons to choose HEAD over HEART. To me it sounds a little as if you were looking for reasons to justify one way or the other; "if only he had done this and this then it might be considered, but the way it is right now I can't etc etc" Don't get me wrong, he is what he is: a righteous man, a drinker and it seems a coward (don't know too much about the cheater and lier bit, as I seem to recall that he didn't cheat while being with you, but of course do not know any particulars), too, but you kinda knew all this before. You were on a break when he moved borderline in; if it was spite or sheer stupidity that made him do that, I don't know. Doesn't really matter, all stupid reasons anyways. However, it is also possible that he just stumbled into it ... (as far as I remember, Ex-Husband threw her out and dumped her bag in front of your Ex door, so without any insight knowledge it is difficult to determine whether your Ex actually planned on it or whether he just got caught in the dynamics of the situation and again didn't have the balls to refuse instantly....) Fact is, he loved you, he tried to change, stopped drinking while being with you, would have mounted christmas lights for you, he threw borderline out fairly quickly and made her stay in the guestroom; admittedly this is not much. By the sounds of it he did more for you than any other women in the past and maybe that is just all he can give? You have to decide whether this is what you can live with or whether you want more from a partner and for sure what your Ex can offer isn't enough for most of us and rightfully so. And I bet he knows that and that might be another reason why he didn't try to contact you, because he knows he screwed up and is pretty sure you won't forgive. He might know that he can't offer all that much and mihgt feel inadequate to give you what you deserve. Just assumptions of course, but it kinda does look that way. I haven't received any "weird" phone calls this weekend, and I half expected it because we saw each other last Friday when he drove by me as I was coming out of the beauty salon. We locked eyes for a few seconds, and he smiled and waved. I didn't wave back, I turned away and headed toward my car. Had I waved back, he MIGHT have worked up the nerve to call me because I've no doubt his sister told him she talked to me and what was said. But the fact that I looked away from him most likely appeared hostile. Yepp, it does appear hostile, obviously his sister told him that you know by now that he still loves you. It's all fine, there is nothing good in pretending and fake smiling, but it does appear hostile for sure. Yep, it's a suckie predicament for sure. Sort of a 'damn if you do, damn if you don't' situation. The BIG picture tells me to cut my losses and move on because if I don't, I'm in for a much, much larger heartache down the road. The smaller picture, the 'here and now,' tells me forgive him, to take the risk, to ease my pain. But really, that's like applying a bandaid where surgery is needed. Hmm. Nobody said it was easy.... Maybe he hasn't contacted me or tried the direct approach because he KNOWS he doesn't deserve a second chance...doesn't deserve ME after what he's done. I wonder sometimes if he's punishing himself. That's the conclusion I have reached or at least contemplate on. And I'm in the middle, covering my ears and screaming at them BOTH to shut up! I know that sounds crazy, but it's the best way I can describe how I feel right now...a tug-o'-war game that I wish to God I could break free of. Listen, Tormented, I know all too well where you are coming from, when I had to decide I honestly sometimes wished I died because I found it ever so difficult to choose HEAD over HEART. In fact in the end I was forced to make a decision, which was good because I might have put the decision off for good just because I was scared and all. However, there is no way out. In a sense him not holding any feelings anymore would have been easier because you could have just mourned and let go and get angry. However, there is also some good in holding the cards, because you will know that it was all your decision and not something thrusted upon you, whether you like it or not. Maybe you should keep a list and decide at the end of each day for HEAD or HEART, whatever feels better. Maybe after a week you will have a tendency. Take care. Green Link to post Share on other sites
Greensleaves Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 Oh, you know, the relationship might have failed anyways, but for sure, my HEAD (and consequently the bad vibes I was sending out) expedited it and worse of all: didn't let me fully enjoy it and be happy while the relationship was still working just because subconsciously I was overly critical on everything. Easy to do when your heart has been torn from your chest and stomped on by the one you loved. Oh, Tormented, that's the sad thing, I was overly critical even though my heart has NOT been stomped on at that time (that part only came way later...). I was overly critical because I couldn't bear my own remorses and feelings of guilt and was actively, though subconsciously, trying to find reasons of inadequateness of the relationship and his behaviour. It was remarkably easy, though not even quite as easy as it would be for you and all the issues your Ex comes with. Especially since your heart has been stomped on already Yep, and there it is...."in the long run." Wouldn't it be great if we all came equipped with a crystal ball to show us what is best in "the long run?" True enough, but most of us wouldn't want to believe it anyways. I mean four years ago, around the time I first met my Ex I would have never believed anybody telling me that I will be with him at a stage and then that it will lead to where I am now. So I think even with our best imagination we can't guess what we will end up with. Maybe that's for the good, though. (One of my friends just married the guy we were always afraid of in highschool; he wasn't really violent but a complete punk with rather anarchistic views and more than scary. We would even switch sidewalks when him and his friends arrived. Fifteen years later he is a great guy and they are happily married ) Take care Green Link to post Share on other sites
Cossette4 Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 Thanks so much for your reply... You described him and the situation to a tee when you said the following: "your Ex enjoys now that she doesn't make any demands on him" and "Maybe he is a person that keeps that all in without any communication. " He told one of our mutual friends that he just looooves being with her because "she irons my shirts, cooks me dinner, and doesn't yell at me." Isn't that sad?? First of all, I don't think I've ever ironed a shirt of his in 5 years, and second of all, how naive to think she doesn't "yell" at him---well, I would hope that she doesn't in your first few weeks of dating!!! Who does?!? I can guarantee she makes no demands on him. Secondly, he NEVER was a person to share his feelings. He even told me, "For me to tell you what I'm feeling is as hard as you NOT telling me how you are feeling." (Because I'm the type of person that could describe my emotional state for hours to anyone who will listen--haha). So yes, that's why we all feel just SHOCKED at his actions b/c he never led on to anything that was bothering him:mad: Link to post Share on other sites
B-3128 Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 Dear T, Sorry I haven't been around for you. You may have guessed that things are a bit funny with me at the moment. There's no real reason I haven't been posting. My computer is fine etc... I just haven't felt like talking about stuff. I guess that happens sometimes. I've been reading though and I want you to know that I'm still here to look out for you I'm not worried by your post. Just watching, I know you won't crumble. I know you know what to do, and I know that you won't let yourself down. I can really identify with how you feel at the moment. I got pretty down after meeting my ex for lunch. There's always a reason you got together with someone in the first place you know. Part of me enjoyed being with her so much. When you know someone as well as I know her, you can also tell if they're enjoying themselves. Part of her was enjoying being with me too. Afterwards, I was really sad that there was a new part to both of us in addition to the old parts that enjoyed our togetherness. New parts, tainted with bad history. Scarred so much that the benefits of the old parts shrink into irrelevance. And then I realised something. There weren't any parts. The whole had changed entirely. My new whole self wouldn't enjoy being with her. But it enjoys the memories of the times it used to. And it's sad. They were good. But there will be better. I see certain defects less kindly than I used to. I try really hard to keep all the good habits she taught me though. And overall, I am aiming to make the whole experience beneficial in the long run. And we both know that's hard. You're not seriously gonna go back to him. And I'm not seriously gonna go back to her. There will be bad dreams and sadness on the way, but we'll make it. Someone gave me this to look at... it helps: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqDU6CPwy6Q B Link to post Share on other sites
Mary3 Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 What do you want here ? Do you want him to whither away and die , get out of your life and stay out of it ? Or do you think love conquers all ? The truth? I want all of the above....with the exception of him whithering away and dying, of course. I want him to get out of my life... I want him in my life... I want a quick fix... I want to hold him, I want him to hold me... I want to walk away WITHOUT the pain... I WANT TO STOP THIS IRRATIONAL THOUGHT PROCESS!!! I WANT IT TO END, ONE WAY OR THE OTHER!!! Could you imagine your life again with this man and accept that he is not perfect , ( nor are we ) and that the love bond is stronger than the strongest super glue immaginable ? YOU hold all the cards here ( and rightly so ) Imperfection I can accept, just as I hope others can accept me for my imperfections...and I've got many. But there are boundaries as to what I can and can not accept. And one of them is *unchecked* alcoholism. The other is lying/cheating. Trust is the main root of love. Without it, the rest will die. He has broken that trust. Can it be regained? I don't know, I truly don't. And that's what keeps me in this undecisive turmoil. He and I haven't even talked yet, so how can I make a solid decision? Truth is, I can't. I may never know because I will NEVER call him. If we are to talk, it will have to be his move. And he doesn't seem to have the guts to do it. If it were me ,knowing EVERYTHING you have told me , I think I would give this man a chance ! * IF * he went into treatment ( and they can and do get sober ) and they can stay sober. The fact that you left his life and started downing the * sauce * just means he does not know how to control his life or urges for alcohol. Know its a long road ahead if you take the love of you life back. Sometimes, Mary, the thought of all the work we'd have in front of us should we ever decide to reconcile and make it work is enough to make me tired and discouraged. And that's just THINKING about it. Can it be done? Yeah, probably...but it would be damn hard on us both. Do I want to? Well now...there's the big question, isn't it? I guess it depends upon what day you ask me this as to what answer I will render. Some days I feel I could do this because of my strong love for him. Other days I'd answer with a resounding "HELL NO." Most the time I feel I'm in limbo...not sure as to how I feel. Ain't love grand??? Many people forever search for love. You have it right here ! You have it right in your hands. How much do you love this man. ? Knowing I have never found anyone again like my one bf of 4 years I would give my eye teeth to have back what I had....sooo....the ball is in your court . Yes, but what good is love when it fails to bring the comfort and joy it's suppose to? That's like suffering the side effects of a medication without the benefit of a cure. So, do I continue to take this medication with the hope that it will eventually pay off, or do I put the cap back on the bottle and place it back on the shelf? I don't know... Can't trust him ? Take and disect EVERYTHING he did. Go back and read your entire post logs. If in all that you determine that he did alot of this out of stupidity and just being plain dumb then he is entitled to f* up . But how much can you forgive ? Here's the deal. If he had done this out of simple stupidy, then I could more easily forgive him. But knowing him the way I do, I think he did it out of spite...to hurt me. To "even the score" for my walking out on him. And when it didn't work, when it failed to bring me back...he kicked her out. The game was over. And NOW, he regrets what he did. NOW he knows he went too far and he doesn't know what the hell to do. He knows he's guilty, he knows he hasn't a leg to stand on in his defense. And rather than sucking it up and facing up to what he did, he chooses to drown his "sorrow and guilt" in a bottle. And I can't respect him for it. It's the coward's way and I expect more from him. If I took the first step, made it easier for him, then I become the enabler. And I won't do that, because if I did it now, then I can pretty much plan on doing it for the remainder of our lives. Nope, I can't...I won't. Get some mutual counseling together and build back the trust. Don't ever trust anyone 100% I have heard thus if things don't work out you can pull back and know you gave him a fair second chance. This I would be game for, but he'd have to admit he's got some serious issues to deal with. Will he? I don't know. He's great in the "blame game"...nothing ever being "his fault." You would think at his age (mid 40's) he would have learned by now. *sigh* ~T~ Then you need to move to Siberia if you want him out of your life. He drives by you everyday. He calls you and hangs up. He is crying out for you and you need to either MEET him ONCE and for all and say the following : Choice A or B A ) I love you no matter what you did and I realize that girl got kicked out and you took her in. I don't think it was 100% spite because you still cared about her to some degree after her husband kicked her out. She had no where to go. Then you made her stay in the guest room rather quicky. I choose to FORGIVE you for everything ( critical Tormented whether you take him back or not ) I want us to work on our love . Work on us. I will give you a fair chance. We will give a 3 month trial period and see how we do B ) I don't want you in my life period. I need you to take a different route to work. I need you to stop calling. I do not want to get back with you ever again. I am sorry you still love me but I dont have it anymore inside me. I suffer immensely from what you did and someday in time I can forgive myself and forgive you but ....that will happen when a giant Asteroid hits the earth Its your call Tormented. You MUST do one of the other. TALK TO HIM either way. Send peace to your heart no matter which choice you make Link to post Share on other sites
Greensleaves Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 Secondly, he NEVER was a person to share his feelings. He even told me, "For me to tell you what I'm feeling is as hard as you NOT telling me how you are feeling." (Because I'm the type of person that could describe my emotional state for hours to anyone who will listen--haha). So yes, that's why we all feel just SHOCKED at his actions b/c he never led on to anything that was bothering him:mad: Yes, that is very hard. Sometimes we don't pay enough attentions to signs of the other half, especially when the other person is not that talkative. But there are people out there that don't display any signs of discomfort and want us to read their minds even though it is impossible. I have seen it in both, men and women. Given that you have been together for quite a while your Ex probably forgot that in the beginning there isn't any "yelling" and any "demands" in almost all relationships and he will wake up when the first phase with his new GF has ended. Maybe you can ask him to state reasons if this is still important to you, maybe he is intimidated to do it by talking, maybe you can ask him to write you an email or a letter instead, as you would like to have a proper closure on it. Of course I don't know if that is possible and how your relationship is right now but if you ask as undemanding as possible, he might try and put some efforts into, if he is actually willing to explore his own feelings and doings that is. By the sounds of it, he might not be ready for that just yet. However, it might be easier just to stay suitably angry and move on as soon as possible- he gave you enough reasons to be able to execute that. And we know that knowing the reasons or having more explanations does not necessarily mean that it will be easier to cope on the contrary, simplifying a breakup situation down to; "you hurt me, I don't want you anymore", makes it easier to cope (downside: we don't learn about ourselves and what we can improve next time, but depending on the nature of the relationship there might not be too much that can be improved....). Hope you will be better soon with the season's festivities coming up, maybe being with close friends and family will distract you at least a little. Take care Green Link to post Share on other sites
Cossette4 Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 "Maybe you can ask him to state reasons if this is still important to you, maybe he is intimidated to do it by talking, maybe you can ask him to write you an email or a letter instead, as you would like to have a proper closure on it. Of course I don't know if that is possible and how your relationship is right now but if you ask as undemanding as possible, he might try and put some efforts into, if he is actually willing to explore his own feelings and doings that is. By the sounds of it, he might not be ready for that just yet." I wish this could be a possibility. The day he broke up with me, he told me that he "just had a revelation that it wouldn't work out," then told one mutual friend "we've been fighting a lot so I just want to take a break," and then told another mutual friend, "It was a long-time-coming...besides, there's a girl at work but I don't know what's going to happen with that" (which, by the way, is the first mention of the girl to ANYONE...). To me, these are three different "reasons," and none of them are a sufficient explanation of why someone who acted like I was their entire world could just pick up and leave and act like I meant absolutely nothing after 5 years. I was so in shock, but I tried to keep my cool, thinking this was some "twilight zone" so I was careful not to yell at him or just go off at the horrible treatment, giving him a chance to explain instead and possibly explain away the huge saddness and betrayal I felt. But instead, he REFUSED to speak to me for 40 days and when his friends finally forced him to meet with me, he was cold and emotionness and just kept repeating, "She makes me happy" (the new girlfriend). And later, during the two phone conversations we had, he acted so unwilling to admit blame for the simplest things like, being an immature cowardly idiot and doing this over the phone. His entire act these days is to make a concerted effort NOT to care or pretend like I mean anything (which to me, is another sign that things aren't right in his head, because who does that? Most normal, stable people treat a break-up with someone they dated for 5 years with a little more worth, dignity, and respect). So the possibility of him ever giving me the respect I deserve by giving me an explanation and an apology is A LONG WAY OFF. "However, it might be easier just to stay suitably angry and move on as soon as possible- he gave you enough reasons to be able to execute that. And we know that knowing the reasons or having more explanations does not necessarily mean that it will be easier to cope on the contrary, simplifying a breakup situation down to; "you hurt me, I don't want you anymore", makes it easier to cope." Yes, this is exactly the way I feel these days. Sometimes, I get soooo mad at myself for even giving him respect, love, and worth by the things I said in person and on the phone to him. For instance, I told him I could never hate him because of all of our history together (but now I'm seriously starting to HATE him), and once on the phone, he was like, "Hmm...yeah well I definitely can't sit here and answer your questions because my new girlfriend will be home soon, so yeah..." CLEARLY it was just an intentional jab at me, but I responded by being like, "How can you say that to me? Please can you just go somewhere else and give me a chance to tell you what I am feeling for like, 20 minutes? Please? You are making it so hard for me...I want us to be friends someday when this is all over and you are ruining it...Please..." And now I just feel STUPID for begging like that and I wish I would have been like, "Ok you know what? That was the most immature attempt at hurting me yet. I am so much better than this. I don't need to sit here on the phone and beg and plead for friendship with a <expletives...lots of them> loser like you! You blew it, Cya!" and then hang up. In a way, I can't say I regret being civil and nice and loving because that's WHO I AM and WHAT I FELT at the time, but sometimes I feel like he just ate it up and I wish I would have left him with some stinging words to mill over. Do you think that, despite the way I talked to him, he still knows how wrong what he did was? Part of my problem is I just want him to KNOW how BAD he betrayed me and then FEEL bad about it. And now, he definitely comes off like he has done NO wrong, and no feelings of guilt or loss have ever been communicated. Do you think that's all an act? Link to post Share on other sites
Greensleaves Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 In a way, I can't say I regret being civil and nice and loving because that's WHO I AM and WHAT I FELT at the time, but sometimes I feel like he just ate it up and I wish I would have left him with some stinging words to mill over. Do you think that, despite the way I talked to him, he still knows how wrong what he did was? Part of my problem is I just want him to KNOW how BAD he betrayed me and then FEEL bad about it. And now, he definitely comes off like he has done NO wrong, and no feelings of guilt or loss have ever been communicated. Do you think that's all an act? Oh dear, he sounds worse than I thought or say hoped for. Oh yes, he is a long way off from taking responsibilities. I am pretty sure that deep down inside he knows that his behavious was apalling, but it seems as if he goes through great efforts to avoid this feeling/knowledge altogether. Gosh, one day his bubble will burst and he will fall deep, deeper than you have ever been because he will have to live with his own guilt. There are not too many people who manage to avoid the guilt question for the rest of their lives. You know, you showed respect and after all you still cared, you can feel good about it, stinging words most likely wouldn't have changed anything, he would just told himself, "there the complaining one comes out again". You stayed true to yourself and one day he will probably recognize that. If not, screw him. So answering your question: yes, I do think it is all an act, but by now it seems as if he has somewhat managed to talk himself into reality. He doesn't want to deal with his feelings of guilt, loss and I am sure some regret, too, because it is too painful. So he has talked himself into not feeling anything and concentrating on his new GF, which will just allow him to take his mind of matters. To me it sounds as if he had substantial problems and is just using the girl now. I mean he might be fancying her and might have fallen in love eventually, but I guess subconsciously it is mainly a route out: well I found someone new, that's the easiest explanation to call a relationship off after all, because it is a reason beyond discussion. No, you don't deserve such a treatment and obviously your Ex is emotionally quite immature and his prospects won't change if he doesn't learn to communicate better. Although it hurts a lot after five (! ) years, maybe it is after all better for you, now you can find a partner who is just more mature. Unless something major happens and your Ex has another "revelation" he won't change and won't reflect on anything. So it is a bit like asking for reasons from a child it seems ..... Take care, Cossette. Green Link to post Share on other sites
Author Tormented Posted December 10, 2006 Author Share Posted December 10, 2006 I know it's been awhile since I last posted but I have read all your posts and decided I needed to pull within myself and find some much needed answers, and from there, a decision. Outside of losing my first-born child to Crib death, and the passing of my father, this break up has got to be the most painful thing I've had to endure since. I've been through breakups before, including a divorce, and although they were all painful in their own unique way, NONE of them had the devestating impact this one has. So, I had to sit down and ask myself why this is. What was it about THIS relationship, THIS man that has put me through the hell I've been dealing with for the past 3.5 months. Sometimes, one has to still themselves to hear their own thoughts. And through some serious, HONEST soul-searching (which can be a painful process because you've got to admit to things about yourself that you don't want to believe or accept), I finally reached a realization about ME, and in doing so, came to understand WHY I'm having such a hard time with this breakup. I'm an extremely independant woman. Not by choice, initially, but out of necessity due to life events. Strange, when I was a child all I dreamed about was finding a good husband, having children and taking care of my family. A happily ever after...if you will. But hell, don't a lot of us women share that childhood dream? I mean, we're basically conditioned from the time we're born to be the "nurturers," the family glue, per se. We're given dolls, boys are given Tonka Trucks - and the "gender" roles continue throughout life. I got married, had a son, bought a beautiful house with my ex husband. And yeah, we lived the American dream. We owned a house with a cute little fense skirting the immaculate lawn. Had the dog, the cat, and later on, a beautiful son. We were both employed in respectable fields, and dreamed of our 'tomorrows' together. And then...the "American Dream" burned and crashed and I was forced to emerge and survive from its ruins. And survive I have. Quite nicely, actually. By God, I was a STRONG woman, you see. And a STRONG woman takes no flack from nobody. Uh-huh. Very commendable, except - I did such a fine job at being the tough "amazon" woman, I dared not show any weakness whatsoever. I had to do things "MY" way, and I actually convinced myself that I needed NOBODY, especially so when it came to men. Because, from the time I was a child, I learned that men hurt (step dad was abusive, but that's a whole different monster and I won't get into it), and my ex husband's abuse served to re-affirm this belief. So, I gritted my teeth, sucked it up, and decided to tough it out on my own. I had relationships, yes, but in hindsight I can now see that I never really trusted any of them, always waiting for that male daggar to appear. Because I just KNEW it would...ALL men come equipped with one, after all. So my answer was to avoid attachment, to avoid any dependence upon them at ALL cost. This way, *I* was in control and couldn't be hurt. Not only is this a relationship/intimacy killer, it's freakn' exhausting after awhile. To keep up that "stiffer lip" facade takes in out of you, not to mention the longing to once again trust a man, to take a chance, to ALLOW yourself to be loved and to love back WITHOUT the fear. So, when Bill entered my life I was ready to love again. But not without my deep-rooted fears rearing their head. But he stuck in there. He understood my trust issues because he suffers with them as well. But mine were deeper than his and it caused us a lot of problems. But not ALL the problems... Bill had a drinking problem and had a past history of violence when he drank. Beat his father almost to death about 5 years ago, placing his father in the hospital and then going to jail for it. He also showed or voiced no remorse for doing so which I found disturbing. Bill is what I have discovered to be a Narccisistic Personality. If you aren't familiar with this disorder, they can be quite charming, supportive, and become whatever it is you need. They tend to get inside your head, yor soul, and seem to know what you need. And they become that...what you need. They're great therapists in many ways because of their keen ability to read people, and what they read they'll play it back to you in a way that absolutely floors you. But they don't do it in a cruel way, they come across as caring for you and what is best for you, and that *THEY* are the cure. Well, that's what happened here. Bill became my shrink in many ways, and the crazy part is...I welcomed it. It felt GOOD to let my walls down, to let out a long-held exhale, and allow him to care for me, to love me, to do for me...and I for him. And hey, it was working out beautifully. Problem is, when somebody is as independant for as long as I've been, it's very hard, if not impossible, to fight back for some control. And that's when the problems set in. There always seemed to be a "power control" game between us. Bill seemed to want a "weaker" woman than me. One who would adore him, place him first and foremost in her life. One who would become completely dependant upon him, both emotionally and financially. And he was to be the "king of the castle" and all decisions would be made by him. Problem with that was...Bill bored easily and would grow tired of such a weak woman. He wanted that type of woman, but would then lose respect/interest in her for being so weak. I think it was my strength that he was so attracted to. The challenge of it, the frustration of it, and sometimes the sport of it to see if he could change me into the woman he THOUGHT he wanted. But I was unyielding...basically solid in who and what I am. He hated that about me, but he loved that about me. And the thing is, Bill and I were best of friends. We genuinely LIKED each other as well as loved each other. And he told me more than once he wanted to marry me. And finally, after all these years, I THOUGHT I found my suitable mate. One who would always love me, be there for me, take care of me when I needed it, and more importantly, NEVER give up on me. But the problems finally took their toll on our relationship. His jealousy, demands, and hot/cold moods were something I could no longer tolerate. After NUMEROUS heart-to-hearts about these issues, but to no avail as they continued and even got worse, I walked. But I did it with respect. I sat down on the bed next to him, took his hand, and told him that I loved him deeply but I was leaving and wouldn't be returning. He cried, told me I was making a mistake, but I continued to pack and I left. And from that day to the present, I have missed him more deeply than I have ever missed a man. I miss the hope our relationship once offered. I miss the security I felt, the laughs, the long conversations, the constant wrestling around we did (I even miss the damn bruises on my arms after these playful matches)...but most of all - I miss my friend. I miss the peace I once had with him, the lost hope of being able to retire my "amazon woman" cape and FINALLY allowing love to take its course. And there it is. I miss what we could have been - what I have spent years longing for. And this is a death I'll be mouring for a very, very long time. I see him now. It hurts. He waves everytime he passes by me. I don't wave back. I can't. And I don't know why. We lock eyes, I turn away. He calls but doesn't speak up. I never once said..."Bill, I know this is you. Why don't you speak up?" I haven't because I fear he WILL speak up. And if he does, then what? More pain? Dear God, no. I've had enough. I found out that Borderline is STILL living there. I don't know why his sister told me she wasn't. But apparently things aren't going well. She continues to attempt calling her husband, who, wisely, won't have anything to do with her. In fact, he's got a girlfriend he's quite happy with and the divorce will be final next month. My ex continues to call here, and as always, sits silently. Just got another call Friday morning as I was getting ready for work. Except, it rang only once and then quit. I know it was him, he use to call me every morning while he was on the road. And I can't think of another soul who would call and allow the phone to ring only once or twice, as he did last weekend. What does he want? I don't know. Maybe the same thing as me. Love and security. I said I always wanted a man who wouldn't give up on me. Maybe he hasn't. I don't know... I'm sorry for the length of this post. I wanted you all to know what's been going on with me, my thoughts. I've got ME figured out - I think. What I want from him remains a mystery. Shall I wave back? Shall I talk to him? Help... ~T~ Link to post Share on other sites
Mary3 Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 I posted this on the 6th : Then you need to move to Siberia if you want him out of your life. He drives by you everyday. He calls you and hangs up. He is crying out for you and you need to either MEET him ONCE and for all and say the following : Choice A or B A ) I love you no matter what you did and I realize that girl got kicked out and you took her in. I don't think it was 100% spite because you still cared about her to some degree after her husband kicked her out. She had no where to go. Then you made her stay in the guest room rather quicky. I choose to FORGIVE you for everything ( critical Tormented whether you take him back or not ) I want us to work on our love . Work on us. I will give you a fair chance. We will give a 3 month trial period and see how we do B ) I don't want you in my life period. I need you to take a different route to work. I need you to stop calling. I do not want to get back with you ever again. I am sorry you still love me but I dont have it anymore inside me. I suffer immensely from what you did and someday in time I can forgive myself and forgive you but ....that will happen when a giant Asteroid hits the earth Its your call Tormented. You MUST do one of the other. TALK TO HIM either way. Send peace to your heart no matter which choice you make __________________My post still stands. __________________ Link to post Share on other sites
Greensleaves Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 Well, good work at least on figuring out why you feel so strong about your Ex. It makes lots of sense. No matter how strong we are, we would like to have one person, at least one, where we don't have to maintain the facade and actually talk about our fears, too. You for sure had your fair share of drama in your life and yes, it does make sense that this one hits you harder than most others because you were hoping that this one might be the soulmate after all, the soulmate we all long for even though they seem much harder to come by these days . I am sorry that all this happened with the guy you thought you could be able to trust fully. Darn, it's kinda a bit unfair, but then love can be. Just unfortunate that his narcisstic personality (and the abilities that come with it) met you when your desire for believing and trying love again was at its heights. By the sounds of it, you might have been the type of woman that would have been right for him (if there is such one), though the power struggles must have been tiring and draining. You would have needed to come to an understanding in that department, letting the reins loose in some issues, but have areas in which each of you could stay firm. But this is all what if, had there been, etc talk.... You need a solution. You know what I tend to back up Mary right now. Maybe you shold talk to him. It might hurt worse for a while but the limbo state you are iin is by far worse and it won't change, because as Mary said, unless you move, you will continue to run into him. I do think it is strange that the sister told you borderline moved out, maybe that was what she was told; maybe she just likes you so much that she wanted it all to sound better, who knows. What does he want? I don't know. Maybe the same thing as me. Love and security. I said I always wanted a man who wouldn't give up on me. Maybe he hasn't. I don't know... I'm sorry for the length of this post. I wanted you all to know what's been going on with me, my thoughts. I've got ME figured out - I think. What I want from him remains a mystery. Shall I wave back? Shall I talk to him? Help... ~T~ Uhh, Tormented, it is difficult for sure. I think he does basically want the same and he is not giving up, which is a good sign actually. He seems to be steady in that. Yes, I do think it might be good to face your fears and talk to him. Start waving back, maybe. Maybe he speaks up then? However, if you do, you need to be clear on what you actually want and that seems to be the difficult part. I suppose you could let him know that parts of you would want to be with him but you are not sure if you will ever overcome all your problems you had as a couple, which is why you walked in the first place. [Little excurse: (Maybe reflect on that one; when you walked and said you are not coming back, did you mean it? Did you want him to come back to you the next day, telling you that he will work on himself and you as a couple? Why exactly did you walk? Did you regret it like he said and wanted to turn back and give it another try, but then there was borderline already? I don't know how convincing you were back then, do you think he should have perservered and trying to persuade you to come back even though you said "never"? Or is it just so hard because of you were hunting dreams back then and now even thouhg you actually do know that it is too much of an effort and moreover too risky to make this relationship work?) excourse over] YOu know what jumped to my head? Maybe he doesn't speak up, because borderline is still staying with him and he knows that that's something you wouldn't tolerate (understandably so!), even if she stays in the guest room and there is no physical contact between them whatsoever. And all excuses as to why she is there at all and still will just sound feeble .... Just another thought. OK, hu this is tough even for an outsider. I still would like him to actually open his mouth first, and maybe waving back cold incite it or any other move that might create a situation where he will be able to pick up his courage. But after all you might have to contact him first. I do think you should try and get this all from the table. Make a list and figure out what problems you would see and if and how they could be fixed, clearly outlining your and his input. Try and decide afterwards asa objectively as possibe if it could be done. Have that list in the back of your head if you do talk to him. The problems he has are 1. fighting with the fact that you walked out on him (no guy likes that even if you do it with the utmost respect...) and consequently he cannot possible ask you to come back as he might loose his self respect after all he is a "tough guy" (just assuming, of course, I don't know if he ever asked a woman to come back, but by the sounds of it, I would think it to be rather unlikely...) 2. he created such a mess since then (borderline etc etc) that he is not sure how to proceed himself as he has no leg to stand on and is not sure how to present the facts to a woman who obviously is a "tough amazon" and won't be bulls*itted. I think you need to talk, if you want to wait and rather get clearer on what you really want from him in this situation (not in the ideal long lost one, but the one you are in now), that's fine, too, as for sure you gotta be prepared for it. But i think it has to be done eventually. Maybe you could get more information on his situation especially in respect to borderline (I mean he can't be wanting her around for Christmas, can he?) from friends or call up the sister if you think that is appropriate (she might call you after all, Christmas incites all these things, doesn't it?) and you would need to know it in preparation. I think Christmas after all might provide an opportunity to incite contact and get it all from your chest as this is what people do and kinda expect. (And their spirits are generally more uplifting in the festive season, too) If you wait until New Years, it might be more difficult to start. Hu, that is all I can say right now. Long post. Let us know how you get along. Good luck with everything. Green Link to post Share on other sites
B-3128 Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 Heard from my ex today. I sent her a Christmas card just less than two weeks ago and now she has emailed. Nothing much to the email - she just said thanks, gave me a little update on her applications, and asked how I was doing. I'll write back soon. I don't mind being civil like that. Four and a half months on, I think i am finally starting to move on. I'm not over my depression yet, but I hope it will improve soon. She was a trigger, but there were some other underlying causes for it. I'm trying to deal with those. T, so was all that stuff about you coming back and finding the borderline with him not true? I don't quite get it... you walked out on him and not the other way? Like the others, I'm glad to see that you're looking within. You'll get answers if you do that. It's hard, but you'll do it. B Link to post Share on other sites
Author Tormented Posted December 10, 2006 Author Share Posted December 10, 2006 I posted this on the 6th : Its your call Tormented. You MUST do one of the other. TALK TO HIM either way. Send peace to your heart no matter which choice you make __________________My post still stands. __________________ I did read that post, Mary. And I know you speak the truth, and your advise is sound...but when has doing what needs to be done easy? I know eventually he and I will have to come face to face because this thing just isn't dying a natural death and there's too much unsaid things between us. I think until those things are said, until some type of understanding is reached, it will go on. Because at this point, neither knows what the other is thinking and it's killing us both. I won't say that our talk will lead to a reconcilliation, good chances it won't. Why? Because the line has been crossed and too much damage done to ever regain what we once had. Sometimes, things said and done can't be taken back no matter how much one tries. It could never be the same. I still don't know how to handle this...if I should wave back, if I should just straight out call him and tell him it's time we have a talk. I don't know. I know it needs to be done but I guess at this point I fear it...fear talking to him, fear looking him in the face, fear being that close to him. I fear the outcome, I fear the fallout from a meeting such as this. I fear the condition I'll be in afterwards. I fear what he'll say, what I'll say. And I think he feels the same way. He wants to talk to me badly, this much is clear. But I think he fears it as well. But I guess it's time for us to get over the fear and take the full by the horns. It's got to be done...one way or the other. His Birthday is on the 15th of this month. I was going to ignore it, not send anything. But perhaps I could use it as a way to break the silence. Maybe call his cell phone and wish him a Happy Birthday. I won't send a card because I recently found out Borderline is still there. I don't know why his sister told me she moved out. I wonder if she did at the time the sister told me but has recently moved back in, or if the sister told me that with hopes it would goad me to contact him. The sister, as well as the rest of his family and friends, HATE borderline for what she did to my ex prior to him knowing me. And they all liked me so I'm sure they're not happy with this whole situation. I don't know what's going on at his house. I don't call there, I don't drive by there...hell, I don't even go into his town if I don't have to. So I've no idea what's going on at his house or in his life. I've stayed away from him as best as I can, and the only reason I see him is because he drives by me daily during my lunch hour. In any event, this thing HAS to come to a head. It has to be put to rest one way or another. Enough is enough... ~T~ Link to post Share on other sites
Author Tormented Posted December 10, 2006 Author Share Posted December 10, 2006 No matter how strong we are, we would like to have one person, at least one, where we don't have to maintain the facade and actually talk about our fears, too. You for sure had your fair share of drama in your life and yes, it does make sense that this one hits you harder than most others because you were hoping that this one might be the soulmate after all, the soulmate we all long for even though they seem much harder to come by these days . I talked about the past trauma I've had to shed some light as to WHY I'm where I am today. Yes, that stuff hurt deeply but it's in the past. Sometimes, though, we've got to revisit it to realize what's going on with us today...why we feel the way we do, and why we make certain choices. Sometimes, we've got to get down to the root to figure out the tree. And that's basically what I've done. No, it's not easy. It's damn painful but necessary sometimes. The fact that my ex seemed to understand what was going on with me, and my issues as a result, is the reason I became so close to him. Just as I seemed to understand HIS issues and how to handle it. It was as though we accepted each other, warts and all, without passing judgment. In other words, we loved the whole package...even the negative aspects of it. And I began to trust him. For the first time in years, I was able to trust a man wholeheartedly. So, when he broke that trust, when he did what he did, it hit me hard. And the fact that there has been no closure, no REAL closure other than silence, moving on has been hampered. So, as I mentioned to Mary, I think enough time has passed now that he and I can talk...have an understanding one way or another. There are SO many questions I have, as I'm sure he does, that NEEDS to be answered. And he is the only one that can provide them. I am sorry that all this happened with the guy you thought you could be able to trust fully. Darn, it's kinda a bit unfair, but then love can be. Just unfortunate that his narcisstic personality (and the abilities that come with it) met you when your desire for believing and trying love again was at its heights. Ha! If I told him he was Narcissistic, he'd scratch his head and say..."Huh?" But then, most people don't really have a grip on their issues or disorders. I highly doubt he's even familiar with this term, never mind acknowledging he meets criteria for it. But...he's got his side too. I'm sure if he was here, he'd have a completely different take on what happened in our relationship and what has taken place since our breakup. What that take would be, I don't know as I haven't talked to him. I can tell you that he had high hopes for our relationship as I did. That much I know he'd say. WHY it didn't work is where he and I would disagree. But I guess that could be said of all broken relationships, right? By the sounds of it, you might have been the type of woman that would have been right for him (if there is such one), though the power struggles must have been tiring and draining. You would have needed to come to an understanding in that department, letting the reins loose in some issues, but have areas in which each of you could stay firm. But this is all what if, had there been, etc talk.... In many ways, I believe I was the right woman for him. Why? Because Bill needed a challenge, needed a strong-headed woman who would stand toe-to-toe with him and wouldn't lay down and allow him to run amok. Knowing Bill the way I do, he'd become bored REAL fast with a woman like that. He'd become angry with my strong stance in life, but at the same time he respected me for it. And we did talk about his tendency to want to change me, numerous time in fact, but his wanting to control me never stopped, and at times, got worse. And his jealousy was something I couldn't handle anymore. If I was late coming home from work, he'd eyeball me and say..."I feel like you're up to something." And, of course, this would put me on the war path. I didn't like being accused of things I wasn't guilty of and I got tired of defending myself. Finally, I had to walk. And had he left it there, hadn't contacted me after 3 weeks of our breakup, came over and told me how much he loved me, how much he missed me, couldn't get me off his mind, wanted me back in his life, and me agreeing that we would take things slow and see where it goes...then his reunion with borderline wouldn't have had the impact on me it has. THIS is where I feel betrayed, lied to. WHY in God's name would he do that? Come here (at HIS insistance), tell me these things, spent the night with me, and then get together with her the next night, and move her in within the next week? I can't help but feel betrayed and lied to, and this is where my deep anger comes from and why I have refused to speak to him. But I guess it needs to be done. You need a solution. You know what I tend to back up Mary right now. Maybe you shold talk to him. It might hurt worse for a while but the limbo state you are iin is by far worse and it won't change, because as Mary said, unless you move, you will continue to run into him. Unfortunetly, yes...I will continue to see him. So yes, a heart-to-heart is in order. I just don't know how to go about it. His Birthday is on the 15th of this month. So perhaps I could call his cell and wish him a Happy Birthday. Can't send him a card if Borderline is still there. I do think it is strange that the sister told you borderline moved out, maybe that was what she was told; maybe she just likes you so much that she wanted it all to sound better, who knows. You know, I'm a bit confused about that myself. I know his sister hates borderline, as does the rest of his family and friends because of what she did to him the first time around, before he and I met. I wonder if she told me that with the hope that I'd contact him, or if borderline did move out at some period and has moved back in. I mean, where is she going to go? Her husband wants nothing to do with her and their divorce will be final next month, and she has no job skills to afford getting her own place. So, I don't know what the deal is there. I have no idea what type of relationship they have because I stay out of his life. I don't call there, I don't drive by there...nothing. So it's hard to say what's going on or why his sister told me that. Wierd... Uhh, Tormented, it is difficult for sure. I think he does basically want the same and he is not giving up, which is a good sign actually. He seems to be steady in that. You know, I don't know why he continues to call me and drive by me everyday. Does he miss me, or is he curious about what I'm doing in life? I don't know. Perhaps he feels guilty about what happened but is in love with borderline, or is it because he is still in love with me and wants me back in his life? I honestly don't know at this point. He wants something, that much is obvious. But what, I don't know. Yes, I do think it might be good to face your fears and talk to him. Start waving back, maybe. Maybe he speaks up then? However, if you do, you need to be clear on what you actually want and that seems to be the difficult part. Yeah, I agree. It is time to talk..face to face. And yes, a clear understanding needs to be reached, as well as some answers to a lot of questions...on both sides, no doubt. As I said earlier, his Birthday is on the 15th and I could use that as a way to contact him. Or..I could start waving and smiling back with the hope it will give him the courage to contact me. Maybe I'll do both. I suppose you could let him know that parts of you would want to be with him but you are not sure if you will ever overcome all your problems you had as a couple, which is why you walked in the first place. Well, I don't know if we'll even touch on that subject upon a first talk after this long of period of silence, but I do want to talk about why he did what he did, and if he realizes how much it hurt me, what it did to me. I want to know WHY he did it. [Little excurse: (Maybe reflect on that one; when you walked and said you are not coming back, did you mean it? Did you want him to come back to you the next day, telling you that he will work on himself and you as a couple? Why exactly did you walk? Yes, I did mean it. At the time I made this decision, I was at my rope's end. I made this decision after HOURS upon HOURS of talking this out with him, and after 2 breakups because of it. God knows I tried because of my love for this man. Did I want him to come back? Not initially, but after a few days of leaving him, I guess maybe I did. But I knew him coming back wasn't the answer because the problems still existed and if we hadn't been able to fix them up to that point, I knew there was a good chance we couldn't...ever. So, although I missed him horribly (as I knew I would...knew it the day I walked out), I left it alone. Didn't call him, didn't come around. But he did. And, well...you know the ugly story after that. Did you regret it like he said and wanted to turn back and give it another try, but then there was borderline already? As I said above, I missed him horribly after I walked out but my decision was final. Was borderline in the picture when I left. No, not at that point. Was she in the picture when he contacted me 3 weeks after the breakup in which he came over, said the things he did, spent the night with me? Yes, I think she was but I can't be certain. And THIS is one of the burning questions I have for him. Because, if she was...WHY did he even bother to contact me, to tell me the things he did, spend the night with me? To hurt me? To punish me for leaving? To "get even" as he often does? Or, is it because he never stopped loving her? I NEED to know. And I also need to know that if it was because he was trying to punish me, does he now regret it? I need to know... I don't know how convincing you were back then, do you think he should have perservered and trying to persuade you to come back even though you said "never"? Or is it just so hard because of you were hunting dreams back then and now even thouhg you actually do know that it is too much of an effort and moreover too risky to make this relationship work?) excourse over] Hmmm....never really analyzed on how convincing I may have appeared to him. Don't think at the time I was focusing on how convincing I was coming across as it was how hurt I was at having to reach this decision. It was a very painful and tearful morning for us both. I will tell you, however, that while I was packing, he left the house...didn't want to be there to see me go. Instead, he drove over to his sister's and proceeded to physically attack his brother-in-law who he's been angry at for quite some time as the brother-in-law has been having an affair and his sister was in a lot of pain because of it. But personally, I think he used the affair as an excuse to take out his anger at me. God, it was such a painful and CRAZY day for us both. YOu know what jumped to my head? Maybe he doesn't speak up, because borderline is still staying with him and he knows that that's something you wouldn't tolerate (understandably so!), even if she stays in the guest room and there is no physical contact between them whatsoever. And all excuses as to why she is there at all and still will just sound feeble .... Just another thought. Yeah, that's something I thought of as well. Here's the scenerio I thought of: Say he still loves me. Say he regrets what he did and wants me back into his life. Okay, so if he called me and told me that, if we talked and worked things out, what then? How in the hell would he manage all this with her still there, and apparently she has no where else to go now that her husband doesn't want her back. How can he and I have a relationship when he still hasn't rid her from his house and life? What, exactly, could he offer me at this point. And he damn well knows I wouldn't tolerate her being there, or anywhere in his life. He knows this. You know, Green...I think Bill has painted himself into a horrible situation and doesn't know how to get out of it. I also think he won't kick her out until he knows for sure that I would come back. He can't be alone, he's told me that several times. This is something that I thought of. Don't know that it's fact, but it does make sense. OK, hu this is tough even for an outsider. I still would like him to actually open his mouth first, and maybe waving back cold incite it or any other move that might create a situation where he will be able to pick up his courage. But after all you might have to contact him first. I do think you should try and get this all from the table. Make a list and figure out what problems you would see and if and how they could be fixed, clearly outlining your and his input. Try and decide afterwards asa objectively as possibe if it could be done. Have that list in the back of your head if you do talk to him. The problems he has are 1. fighting with the fact that you walked out on him (no guy likes that even if you do it with the utmost respect...) and consequently he cannot possible ask you to come back as he might loose his self respect after all he is a "tough guy" (just assuming, of course, I don't know if he ever asked a woman to come back, but by the sounds of it, I would think it to be rather unlikely...) Ummmm...yeah, I did walk out. But it wasn't ME who cheated, who came to him telling him how much I loved him, how much I missed him, how much I wanted him in my life, made love to him, then turned around and reunited with an ex I claimed to hate. Yes, I walked but I did it with respect. I didn't lie, I didn't cheat, I didn't do it to deliberately hurt him. Yes, I know he was hurt, but that is no excuse to do what he did. So, really...I feel under these circumstances that it is HIS place to make contact, not me. But at this point, Green, I don't think it's important WHO makes contact, just as long as contact is made so that we can iron out what actually happened and WHY. For both of our sakes. Seems to me we miss each other, that we're having a hard time forgetting and moving on from each other and we need to know why. Because, until we do, this thing could drag on for much longer than need be. We are both in pain and it's time we do something about it. 2. he created such a mess since then (borderline etc etc) that he is not sure how to proceed himself as he has no leg to stand on and is not sure how to present the facts to a woman who obviously is a "tough amazon" and won't be bulls*itted. I have to agree with you here. I remember the first time we broke up and he said he saw me and my son at the post office as he drove by. I asked him why he didn't honk and wave. He said..."No way! I was afraid you'd flip me off or something." This right here pretty much backs up your above statement. He knows how I am, he knows how I can be when I'm THIS angry and hurt. Hey...blame my Irish genes! lol... I think you need to talk, if you want to wait and rather get clearer on what you really want from him in this situation (not in the ideal long lost one, but the one you are in now), that's fine, too, as for sure you gotta be prepared for it. But i think it has to be done eventually. Maybe you could get more information on his situation especially in respect to borderline (I mean he can't be wanting her around for Christmas, can he?) from friends or call up the sister if you think that is appropriate (she might call you after all, Christmas incites all these things, doesn't it?) and you would need to know it in preparation. Oh, he'd keep Borderline around for Christmas rather than spending it alone. I know him, and I can safely say this is what he'd do. Well, I could actually contact him before Christmas as his Birthday is on the 15th. Guess I could call his cell and leave a message. Or, I could send a card to his house...and the hell with her. Don't care if she likes it or not. I have NO respect for her. Or...I could wave back and see if he'll do the contacting...or perhaps all of the above. This one I'll have to think on. Hu, that is all I can say right now. Long post. And I thank you for it. I very much enjoy your posts, Green. It's gonna be a strange week...I can feel it. ~T~ Link to post Share on other sites
Author Tormented Posted December 11, 2006 Author Share Posted December 11, 2006 Heard from my ex today. I sent her a Christmas card just less than two weeks ago and now she has emailed. Nothing much to the email - she just said thanks, gave me a little update on her applications, and asked how I was doing. I'll write back soon. I don't mind being civil like that. Well, B...at least she's acknowledging your contacts. That's an improvement to her past stunts of conveniently "ignoring" them. NC seems to have that kind of effect on exes. They quickly learn that you won't tolerate their crap anymore and they suddenly seem "pleasantly surprised" when hearing from you. No longer do they take it for granted. Four and a half months on, I think i am finally starting to move on. I'm not over my depression yet, but I hope it will improve soon. She was a trigger, but there were some other underlying causes for it. I'm trying to deal with those. The depression will take longer to rebound from, B. Primarily because it was most likely there BEFORE she entered your life. What I mean by that is it seems you're prone to it, and although having her in your life eased it some, it has always been there to a certain degree. Of course, losing her brought it on full steam, no doubt, but you're now dealing with the aftermath and that will take some time. And yes, she IS a trigger because seeing her is a reminder of what you HOPED to have but is now gone. Doesn't mean you will never know happiness again, you will...I think you know that. But it takes time - something I have told myself time and time again. T, so was all that stuff about you coming back and finding the borderline with him not true? I don't quite get it... you walked out on him and not the other way? You know, this has been such a looong, drawn-out drama that the beginning of it has gotten lost in the thick muck of it all. Yes, it was me who initially walked out. I did it because, after hours upon hours of talking about his controlling issues and ridiculous jealousy, along with 2 previous breakups as well, I reached a painful decision to walk. I honestly thought this was the best for both of us, B. Because we just kept hurting each other. And things just seemed to be going downhill with no answers to fix it. So, when I told him I was leaving, I made it clear I wasn't coming back. We set at the side of the bed, I took his hand in mine, and told him that I love him deeply but our issues were too complicated and there didn't seem to be a way to get around them. He cried, told me I was making a mistake but didn't try to talk me into staying. In fact he said, "I won't beg you to stay because I don't want somebody to stay that doesn't want to." As I packed, he left the house because he didn't want to be there when I left. He then went to his sister's and got into a fight with his brother-in-law. He had been angry with the brother-in-law because he was having an affair and his sister was deeply hurt. But I think he was taking his anger towards me out on his brother-in-law. Okay, so neither of us contacted each other after the breakup for 3 weeks. After the 3rd week, he called me. Said he can't get me out of his mind, missed me horribly, that it had been a long 3 weeks, that he isn't functioning well, hadn't even checked his mail or paid his bills since I left, that he needed to see me, and that he still loved me deeply. I was reluctant to have him over, didn't think I should see him, but finally agreed to it. He came over that night after work and we sat on my deck and talked for hours. We once again hashed over all of our issues, what we could do about it, and decided that we would take things verys slowly and see where it goes. I told him that I won't live at his house, that I felt it was best if I stayed at my house and he at his. We were very affectionate, very loving towards each other, and made love that night. In the morning, he left early for work and so did I. He called me that morning as I was getting ready for work, once again telling me how much he loved me, and how good it was to see me. Told me he would call me that night after he got off from work. He did call me, telling me he had errands to run and would call me when he got home. That call never came, which is NOT like him. So, because of his recent nose bleeds from high blood pressure, and his drinking, I was terrified something happened to him and nobody called me. I then went to his house after work and saw a strange truck parked there, but his truck was gone. Went to his place of employment and saw his truck parked next to where his logging truck is usually parked. I waited for him to pull in to approach him. When he did, I confronted him, told him I saw a strange truck at his house, and now I understood why he didn't call me back...because he had a woman there. His face fell, he didn't know what to say. I was holding a few things that belonged to him, including the ring he gave me, and threw it all up in his logging truck. I called him a f*cking liar for telling me that he wasn't seeing anybody else and wanted to work things out with me. He looked down and said..."at the time, I wasn't seeing anybody else." I again called him a liar, and as I turned to walk away, I pointed at him and told him NOT to call me when his "new" relationship didn't work. He tried to follow me to my car, said some things but I didn't hear it. I got in my car and drove off. Went to his house, knocked on his door and that's when I realized it was borderline. I remember how horrible that was for me, how deeply that hurt. I told her he had spent the night with me the night before, and she was more than welcome to my "leftovers." She stood there with her mouth opened, didn't say a word. I then drove off. And he and I haven't spoken since. Where my anger lies is the fact that he contacted me 3 weeks after our breakup, telling me how much he loves me, wants me in his life...made love to me and THEN went back to her is where I feel betrayed. Had he left it alone, didn't contact me after the breakup and then got together with her, I might have felt hurt (I know I would) but I wouldn't feel betrayed or lied to. I don't know if he did it to "punish me" for walking out on him, or if he truly loves her. Don't know. But if it's because he loves her, why then has he continued to call me, even if he does sit silently? Or arranges his schedule to drive by me daily? Because of guilt? Because of love? Who knows at this point. But it goes on and it needs to come to a head, for both our sake. Like I told Mary...enough is enough. Like the others, I'm glad to see that you're looking within. You'll get answers if you do that. It's hard, but you'll do it. Comes a point where you need to stop asking others and look within yourself for the answers, and then take action in accord to what you find. Guess I'm just tired of this whole thing, B. Tired of feeling the way I do, tired of the pain and the questions. Time to take action... His Birthday is on the 15th, maybe I'll break the ice and see if he and I can come to an understanding, or at least get some questions answered. It needs to be done... ~T~ Link to post Share on other sites
Mary3 Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 He * IS * in your life . # 317 POSTS later he is a living breathing entity that you have spent 300 + posts reading about the pain , the joy , the love , the EVERYTHING. Unless you push him off a Cliff , he is with you forever ! Now go wave at him tomorrow. Call his cell and wish him a Happy Birthday Then we can have many more posts about how you fell in love with him all over again Link to post Share on other sites
silentalways Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 i wish i had a printer so i could print it off and bring it home and read this u know what folks the woman i love lives in the same city and i really don't know where she lives i thought it was important not to find out because at the beginning of NC i knew her cell and she knows how well that went over sometimes when i have these late night online jags they are dangerous for me because i truly start thinking i am somehow conversing with my ex and i get happy - think maybe she'll surprise me, finally and when i get home, she's there with a coffee and it never happens, and why i keep the notion after 8 months its that part that really i have to watch because i need to get stronger before i can bounce those disappoints off and expect them in fact just knowing that i just....nevermind ok...i have to get the hell home and shower i'll try and stay off the comp and sites for a while but for 8 months i have felt like this pull inside like she is gone but helping whacked eh ok stay kewl Link to post Share on other sites
Cossette4 Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 Hey Tormented, Good to see you back. Sorry to hear you are struggling with the "to wave or not to wave issue." I have a question... Are you questioning yourself about this because you are debating whether or not to be forgiving and compassionate to him as a person, or because you are considering getting back together with him? I know there were many posts before where you were saying you could never forgive what he did and now it seems like perhaps you are having a change of heart? (or am I just reading that wrong?) Anyway, I think you should probably talk to him regardless. Like me, I think you are restless because *something* needs to happen, even though we aren't sure what that *something* is. Since your situation seems to be inviting conversation, you have the chance to get closer to the answers that will bring you closure (sadly, that's no where in sight for me:( ). Even though I still feel like I could never take my ex back, I wish to God I could hear from his mouth that he made the biggest, most disrespectful life-shattering mistake of his life, that his new girlfriend is just a coping mechanism, and that he takes some blame and responsibility in the factors leading up to our breakup. It'd be nice to know I meant something after 5 years. I'm sure you feel that too, and his sister gave you a "preview" that he does indeed feel that way. Side note: I was just thinking the other day...Isn't it so sad that the people who we love most and the people who (at least at one time) loved us are the ones we hurt the most and the ones that hurt us the most. Like, I wouldn't have made a big deal if a waitress at a restaurant screwed up my order, but if he screwed up some small tasks, I'd go off. He was the type of person who would listen patiently to the complaints of his co-workers, but when me, his girlfriend of 5 years, the girl he has millions of memories with, is shattered on the floor, begging for him to listen and care, there's nothing but coldness. Link to post Share on other sites
Greensleaves Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 . And I thank you for it. I very much enjoy your posts, Green. It's gonna be a strange week...I can feel it. ~T~ Only short: read everything and will answer in more detail before the dawn of the 15 ! Yepp, it will be a strange one for me too, as I am flying off tomorow. So we both gotta wish us luck Take care Link to post Share on other sites
Author Tormented Posted December 14, 2006 Author Share Posted December 14, 2006 Three hundred-plus posts, huh? Well now...don't *I* feel like the obssessive twit! Please understand that this board is the ONLY place I vent. In real life, I got about my business without so much as uttering his name. I pretend that everything is A-OKAY with me, that I'm over him/it, but as all of you here know...I'm NOT. I will be, just not yet. No, don't think I'll be calling him. Not for his birthday. Not for Christmas. What's the point? Sometimes...it's too late. Too much damage done, too much time gone pass. So, instead of going on about it here, think I'll jump into some other threads and try to help out where I can. I'll be bringing my ex up now and then...after all, this IS a board for support, and I still need it. But it's time I wean off of it and try to help others now...just as others have helped me through my pain. ~T~ Link to post Share on other sites
Author Tormented Posted December 14, 2006 Author Share Posted December 14, 2006 I think, Silent, that we ALL cling to the hope that our ex will return at some given point. That they'll come to their senses, have a miraculous moment when it hits them that they can't do without us. And that's normal, really. It's a defense mechanism, helps us to take the edge of pain off. But there comes a time that we HAVE to let them go. And with that, we MUST let go of false hope. Because, until we do that we can't hope to move on and live our life for US. What they did to us initially sucks. It hurt...hurt like hell. And maybe we didn't deserve it. Maybe we WERE a victim. BUT - if we continue to hold on to a dead dream and false hope, then we are doing it to OURSELVES. A self-inflicted handicap, and unless they're messing with our head, instilling false hopes of a reconciliation, then we honestly can't hold them responsible for our lingering pain. We can not control what happened in the breakup, nor can we control what they feel or do at this point. But we CAN control OURSELVES and what we do with the heartbreak and pain. Me? I choose to let him go. I choose to NOT contact him. Why? Because when all is said and done, when the pain lifts and life goes on, at least I walked away with my self dignity intact. Long after he's but a faint memory in my life, I will still have to live with ME...everyday for the rest of my life. So it's ME and how I will feel about ME that counts. Good luck, Silent. We'll make it. ~T~ Link to post Share on other sites
CaliGuy Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 I think, Silent, that we ALL cling to the hope that our ex will return at some given point. That they'll come to their senses, have a miraculous moment when it hits them that they can't do without us. And that's normal, really. It's a defense mechanism, helps us to take the edge of pain off. But there comes a time that we HAVE to let them go. And with that, we MUST let go of false hope. Because, until we do that we can't hope to move on and live our life for US. What they did to us initially sucks. It hurt...hurt like hell. And maybe we didn't deserve it. Maybe we WERE a victim. BUT - if we continue to hold on to a dead dream and false hope, then we are doing it to OURSELVES. A self-inflicted handicap, and unless they're messing with our head, instilling false hopes of a reconciliation, then we honestly can't hold them responsible for our lingering pain. We can not control what happened in the breakup, nor can we control what they feel or do at this point. But we CAN control OURSELVES and what we do with the heartbreak and pain. Me? I choose to let him go. I choose to NOT contact him. Why? Because when all is said and done, when the pain lifts and life goes on, at least I walked away with my self dignity intact. Long after he's but a faint memory in my life, I will still have to live with ME...everyday for the rest of my life. So it's ME and how I will feel about ME that counts. Good luck, Silent. We'll make it. ~T~ Excellent post. To live in the past is to cripple your present and future. We all do it at some point in our lives. Living in the past is primarily why some people heal very slowly or don't heal at all. All we have 100% complete control over is ourselves... Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts