cool, happy adults, but he won't marry me !!!!

[melodymatters]

Hey all,

I'm new here, but really need to run my situation by some objective people ! (friends and family, while well meaning are nearly ALWAYS on " your side") My BF and I have been together for a year now, I'm 40, he's 47. It's the best relationship either of us have ever had, damn near magical ! At one point he announced to all our friends that we would be " getting married in 2007" and proposed to me ( sans ring, but who cares, marriage isn't about jewlery) a week later.

Now, he's saying things like " I don't believe in marriage" - " It's just a peice of paper"-" I couldn't be more committed to you, why do you need that ?"The problem is : I DO. I'm not a holy roller, but I'm old fashioned enough to want to make our committment true and binding in the eyes of God, family, friends and the the law. ( We're talking about writing wills to protect eachother and our business, but I'm like "what, are we gay, and i've got to refer to you as my lifetime partner,special companion, and we need to write " piece of paper" wills, but can't get married?")

He gets so stressed when i try and communicate my needs and desire for marriage and it invariabley leads to our only fights. Nothing has changed since his faux proposal, if anything, we know each other better, are closer and I recently started a business for us ( with his eager participation) which stands to make a lot of money. ( again, we can incorporate, just not marry, lol) Things are GREAT except for this one issue !

In these discussions, he brings up his terrible divorce of 5 yrs ago ( no kids, they have no contact) In which his illiterate, cheating psycho ex wife sued him and his family, or fear of what his elderly parents would think, as they were also sued by her due to a family business concern.

What pisses me off is, i am NOTHING LIKE HER ! I have my own home, money, business's and without (hopefully) sounding conceited, I am from a ....higher socio-economic status, more intelligent and certainly more attractive than his usual choice of partners. He says things like " I can't imagine what you see in me " and "I ask God how I got so lucky to end up with somone like you". So I'm pretty certain it's not the old " holding out in case anything better comes along" shtick. And in case your curious, the answer to that question is : I dated highly succesful yuppie types, but none of them treated me as well, had such kind hearts, were such good freinds to me, as my lovable, sweet, redneck trucker guy !

SO, do I just wait and hope he comes to his senses ? Give some sort of friendly ultimatum along the lines of ' I understand how you feel, but I'm a person with hopes and dreams too, so if we can't start planning a future at a certain, reasonable point, I'm going to have to move on ?" and wait some more ? I'm too old to play games, but also have too much going for me to settle.

I love him dearly and passionatley, but I have pride and hopes for MY future too, and if he was willing to give the honor of being his wife to "D" then how come I have to settle for second best ? AND, my ex was a COMPLETE bastard and my divorce was MORE recent, but I don't hold the fact that they both have the XX chromosone against MY guy !

 

So, ANY advice, from men or woman who have ANY insight/idea's, will be greatly appreciated ! This is the first time I have been driven to post on a message board and I am hoping to find the kind of support here I am reluctant to seek from my " real peopl" lol.

Thanks again !

Melody

[sIZE=2][/sIZE]

[Outcast]

In these discussions, he brings up his terrible divorce of 5 yrs ago ( no kids, they have no contact) In which his illiterate, cheating psycho ex wife sued him and his family, or fear of what his elderly parents would think, as they were also sued by her due to a family business concern.

What pisses me off is, i am NOTHING LIKE HER !

 

There are tons of people who are unable to shake the 'one (man/woman) done me wrong therefore all (men/women) henceforth could maybe do the exact same thing' rut they get into. It doesn't appear to matter that you are not the nasty (woman/women/man/men) the person was stuck with. The very fact of sharing the gender is enough to condemn you for all time to be considered as bad as the rest.

 

It's probably some leftover alligator brain reflex along the lines of 'eat leaf that makes you sick - avoid leaf' mentality.

 

The point is that it's not personal. It's not about you. It's his issue and unless he has deep therapy he won't likely get past it. So your choice is to toss away all the greatness that is him over principle or to accept that despite all the marvellous things about him there's this bit of his brain that's a little bit screwy, love him anyway, and stay with him.

 

My vote would be for the latter. Great guys are not all that easy to find so it's pretty dumb IMHO to toss one away over something that's just a mode of thinking. You aren't obliged to think marriage has the significance it does. You just choose to.

 

So you can make this out to be about someone denying you 'what you want' or you can work from the idea that the guy got burned before and because of that is a little bit flawed now but still worth having. Because it's not about you.

[phyrespryte]

I am hoping to find the kind of support here I am reluctant to seek from my " real peopl"

Hm. Interesting...

 

Anyways, I think it's odd that he declared that he wanted to marry you and now thinks it's not important. That would make me very uncomfortable. But maybe he proposed because he knew that you were so traditional. I don't know. What does your gut tell you about that?

 

To me it seems that everything else is great. So you have 2 choices. Leave him or suck up your pride. If you feel he's committed to you and nothing shady is going on why let something unimportant like a peice of paper keep you from being with him? You said yourself that the relationship is magical. It seems silly to let go of something so good because of pride.

 

I also get the feeling you view marriage as a stepping stone i.e. Marriage, then move in together, then live happily ever after. Your life together can start at any point. It can even start with the wills you're drawing up together.

 

But's that's just my opinion. I don't have experience in that area.

 

Last thing...just because it isn't official doesn't mean you have to call him your "life partner". I had a manager in a similar situation and they referred to each other as husband and wife.

[whichwayisup]

he brings up his terrible divorce of 5 yrs ago

 

In which his illiterate, cheating psycho ex wife sued him and his family, or fear of what his elderly parents would think, as they were also sued by her due to a family business concern.

 

Now, he's saying things like " I don't believe in marriage" - " It's just a peice of paper"-" I couldn't be more committed to you, why do you need that ?"The problem is : I DO.

 

He isn't playing games with you, he gave you valid reasons why he doesn't want to be married a second time.

 

A year isn't that long either. Can't you just enjoy the aspects of living together, being a couple in every way for abit longer? Eventually in time maybe he'll change his mind. Both of you had divorces, so what the rush to get married again?? He has told you he loves you and he's happy as things are.

 

Are you thinking of ending it if he doesn't marry you? Because if that is the train of thought you're leaning for, don't think it! You have a good man there, except he's gunshy and doesn't feel the need to get married again...

 

Honestly? Just enjoy life as it is and if marriage happens in 3, 5 or 10 years from now, great! And if not, you still have that special man beside you in bed night after night...

[melodymatters]

And from your posts, I'm almost certain you ARE guys. lol. I guess what you are giving me is what I was seeking : The "guy brain" can be totally in love and committed, but see no need for that "piece of paper".

 

Not sure yet how I feel about that, I DO know that in ALL of life you need to listen to your gut, and I don't think I'll be forever happy, being someones " girlfriend", and there's no point in making us both miserable if we have seriously DIFFERENT view points on the subject.

 

BUT, I also realize a year isn't a long time, and wouldn't have even

brought UP marriage personally until a year from now if he hadn't proposed....but I don't like closed doors, and "nevers", I am such a can do person.

 

Part of why I am successful in life is my little "sicilian girl ,I can do anything", attitude, and I am finding it uncomfortable to just ....ride it out, but I'm thinking thats what needs to be done here.

 

I REALLY appreciate the feedback: cheaper than therapy and I can stay home and drink a beer while I do it !

 

Kisses,

Melody

[whichwayisup]

Hate to tell ya this, but all the replies to your thread are from females!

[melodymatters]

Do you think it's the age thing ? I'm a 40 yr old who still gets proofed, but my 13 yr old daughter and her friends ( ALL products of divorced parents) feel that marriage is a silly sham !?! Never thought I'd be old fashioned, lol.

 

Thanks for the heads up though: Never heard a chick call it a "piece of paper" and, I might be scarred by my VERY COOL sister who's in a band in Boston and founded Punk Rock Aroebics. She had a BF for like 13 yrs, they bought a house, were in a band, but he always trotted out the "piece of paper thing" and I think to be cool, she went along with it, while I know that her "italian girl" part really wanted that commitment.

 

Long story short, he ended up leaving her for a young cute troubled waitress. Could it have happened if they WERE married ? Hell yeah !

 

BUTTTTTT, the fact that he always had the "peice of paper argument "( which is fallacious, cuz if it's just a piece of paper and it means something to her.....why not give it up, It doesn't mean **** right ?!?)

 

and my gut tells me, he would have thought longer and harder about HIS character before he did so, if he had mentally DECIDED they were a team/forvever !!!!!

 

I have never cheated on anyone, ever, BUT, having been married, there IS a part of me that closes mental doors during relationship difficulties if I'm married, and says " Well, I can at least listen if my guy can't committ to me, ?"

 

You either give 110 % committment: paper, legal, blood, sweat, tears, money and swear to take a bullet for your partner, or you"re just f*cking dating, IMHO.

 

Great thing about America, we're free to pick whats comfortable for US !!!

 

Thanx again !

Melody

[whichwayisup]

Married or not, if someone is going to cheat, they will do it with or without a piece of paper. That won't guarantee you 100% fidelity.

 

What counts is what you both feel for eachother. And you two are choosing to make a life together. Feel married IN the heart, not by a piece of paper.

[melodymatters]

.....Am really appreciating your feed back ! Like I said in an earlier post, It's so easy to get people who love you to just back up WHATEVER YOU WANT ! I guess the loyalty is precious, but if I could also get em to drink the kool-aid, how true is there advice ?

 

Just curious about you ! How old ? have you ever been married ? Anything you'd like to share...

 

 

Melody

[whichwayisup]

13 years together, living with him for 10 years. Not legally married, we're commonlaw. Good enough for the eyes of the Law.

 

We're both happy, we're married in just about everywhere, just the piece of paper and walk down the aisle. (Though I wouldn't mind the presents!!)

[Outcast]

and my gut tells me, he would have thought longer and harder about HIS character before he did so, if he had mentally DECIDED they were a team/forvever !!!!!

 

Your gut is biased towards marriage, which is causing it to make subjective judgements rather than objective ones.

 

So what we have is two pieces of baggage. Him with a bad divorce and you with a sister who got dumped. It's a draw.

You either give 110 % committment: paper, legal, blood, sweat, tears, money and swear to take a bullet for your partner, or you"re just f*cking dating, IMHO

.

And that's the problem. It's just an opinion. And other people have the opinion, equally strongly, that if you need a piece of paper to hogtie you together then you don't really love each other. And they believe it every bit as strongly as you.

 

So go ahead and make this a power struggle and lose this 'magical' guy. Send him over to LS - there's a lot of ladies here who wouldn't miss a chance at an excellent fellow over that.

I'm a 40 yr old

 

My father was older than that when he met my stepmom. They refused to tell anyone whether they were married or not because they said they'd have friends who'd be mad if they were and friends who'd be mad if they weren't.

 

Turns out they lived together for a long time before marrying and married after he had a stroke. I'm guessing the issues about hospital visits and wills persuaded them that going legal was smart. But you're some years away from that.

[HokeyReligions]

Give it another year - but have a discussion with him that you will both think about this during the year and have a couple of discussions at different times to see if your feelings or goals are changing. Both of you need to agree to honestly consider the others' POV. He may change, but you may change also.

 

Marriage is important to me also - I would not have continued the relationship I had if we had not got married. If its that important to you then you need to know he will at least consider it honestly, and he needs to know that you care enough about him to honestly consider a commitment without benefit of marriage.

 

I worked with a woman who was had been living with a man for many years - I thought they were married and it wasn't until I referred to him as her husband that she corrected me. As it turns out they had been married and for them that little piece of paper made a negative difference to them. They divorced, stayed apart for a while, then got back together again because they really love each other. It was the 'married' part that hurt them. I'm the opposite. I lived with my husband prior to marriage, but I wouldn't have done that had I believed that marriage would never happen. He was terrified of getting married. It didn't change our day-to-day lives or feelings, but it gave me something which I can't really explain, but I would not have been as secure without.

 

Have some open and honest discussions and set some goals and boundaries and keep the communication open between you.

[melodymatters]

Hey it's me again....

 

 

I was feeling lots better after reading all of your thoughful replies, and then :

 

As I mentioned, I started us a business, he was driving fuel tankers for another co. and we figured out that if we owned our own truck, we could make 3 times as much for the same work. I took out a personal loan for 20k, incorporated, found the Co. to sub-contract with, and basically made his lifelong dream of being an " owner operator" come true.

 

I just recived the mandatory insurance papers on the ins he needs to carry. If he's injured his SPOUSE would get 25k, and 2,500 a month. My daughters father is dead, and as such, if she was his stepdaughter she also would be allowed to collect social secuirty or the ins payments. AS IT STANDS THOUGH, if you are single, it goes to your parents, and then in turn your siblings. SO, people who did nothing to contribute to the co. would collect, and my daughter and I would be liable for the debt.

 

This sent me into another depressing tailspin.

 

If somone is selfish enough to care so little about you and your childs security, when YOU were the one to " put your balls on the line" to make HIS dreams come true, what does that say ?

 

also from Sobermindeds rejecting marriage proposals thread, here is what he wrote, which is EXACTLY what happened to me:

----------------------------------------------------------

"So therefore it was her responsibility to make clear to me early on that she was serious about marriage and would not compromise for anything less. She has no right to get upset because I was not the one who proposed to her and led her on.

 

I could understand her getting upset if I promised marriage and then later went back on my word. But I'm not the one who made any promises."

--------------------------------------------------------

 

So, any new thoughts people ?

 

Thanks, Melody

[norajane]

Melody, I don't see marriage as 'just a piece of paper'. It's a commitment to be together and to build a future together, and that commitment makes all the difference in the world, in my mind.

 

Aside from the legal, medical, and financial rights and responsibilities which marriage confers on a couple (which are significant as he knows with the will and the business), I believe the act of committing to each other not only makes your intentions and promises clear to each other, it also solidifies your intentions to be a team, an US, rather than a you and me.

 

While he may say it's just a piece of paper (and I agree with you - if it's just a piece of paper, then why is it so hard for him to sign up to it?), you do not see it that way. Your view is just as valid as his, and if he's asking you to consider his views, then he should also be willing to consider yours with equal gravity.

 

A year may be too soon for either of you to make a final decision, but it's not too soon for you to explain that, in the long run, you wouldn't feel happy in a relationship without a marriage commitmet and this will come between you, and ask him to consider how important this is to you. At the same time, tell him that you will also consider his views, and would like to discuss this again in the future.

 

You don't have to set an ultimatum, but do think very hard and very long about whether you would truly be happy in a relationship where you aren't married. If you determine that you wouldn't be, you would be doing both of you a favor to end the relationship as you will always remain dissatisfied. This issue won't just go away if you feel strongly about marriage.

[Outcast]

Think long and hard about whether 'being married' is soooo important that it's worth throwing away

the best relationship either of us have ever had, damn near magical !

 

You'll find dozens of men who'll marry you but you'll not find dozens of 'damn near magical', especially given that you're not exactly in your teens anymore.

 

Dr. Phil says we want things because of how we think they'll make us feel. Being married is no more magical than losing your virginity. If your heart is committed to someone, then nothing else should be more important.