For the Guys: A Reality Check

[Ripples]

Haven't you heard about what happens to frogs after they get kissed? I'm afraid Prince is the only option...

[a4a]

Prince? No. Now a knight would be cool, riding atop a white steed, with shiny armour and a claymore to cut down those revolting peasants...

 

 

actually if you stick to a darker steed, bay or black you have more sneak up ability and can whack more peasants.

 

You'll blend into the background better....... also skip the shiny armour and throw some camo paint on it...

[RecordProducer]

I agree. I've been there, and I have to say that I will never again attempt to rely on a boyfriend when I'm at my most vulnerable. That's not to sound cynical (though I appreciate it probably does sound that way)...it's just that I do find men lose respect for you in those situations, and once the respect is gone everything else starts to go too.

 

I tend to think that the protective male/helpless female roles are something best acted out in a non-serious manner...for entertainment, romantic or sexual purposes.

This is very true. This is why I suddenly decided to stop drinking. My husband was willing to help me, but I realized that nobody wants to see a hysterical, crying, messed-up, and destructive woman. He loves me, but as my mom said once: "Your husband is not your shrink or social worker. Spare him your misery and suffering!"

 

He fell in love with me, because I was full of life, cheerful, smiling, and sweet. And if he sees the opposite of what's attractive to him for too long, he will, naturally, stop being attracted when the ugliness accumulates in his sight and memory. Love and respect are a subject to change.

 

Besides, would you like to have a miserable, moody, self-pitying, weak, non-productive, poor man by your side? I wouldn't. I also married my husband because he was a hero in my eyes, not a loser. This doesn't mean I would dump him if he would get depressed, but if he would become all of what I mentioned three lines above and remained like that for a long time, I don't think I would be attracted to him after a while. I couldn't treat as my equal a person who completely relies on me emotionally or in any other aspect.

 

The formula is: the more you show weakness the less they respect you. E.g. I stopped seeing Britney Spears as a super-star when I saw her fat, depressed, losing it and crying on TV, being a victim of love for some pizza-deliverer. Yes, I see her as a human being and still like her, but she is just another girl in my eyes now.

 

When a man falls in love with you, he views you as a goddess. If you break that image in his mind, he loses the basis of his admiration for you. Without admiration, his love fades away. Same for women.

 

Simply said, people don't like to be surrounded with bad things and misery. Everyone wants the best for themselves.

[lindya]

When a man falls in love with you, he views you as a goddess. If you break that image in his mind, he loses the basis of his admiration for you. Without admiration, his love fades away. Same for women.

 

The prospect of anyone viewing me as a goddess is frightening, and I'd be trying to break that image asap. Which perhaps explains a few things about my life

[superconductor]

The formula is: the more you show weakness the less they respect you.

E X A C T L Y

 

I'm glad you wrote this, RP, because coming from a woman it tends to have more validity with the other women on the site.

[blind_otter]

The prospect of anyone viewing me as a goddess is frightening, and I'd be trying to break that image asap. Which perhaps explains a few things about my life

 

Amen to that. I get all weirded out. I fart. I burp. I have hysterical episodes. My armpits smell bad when I get sweaty. I get "the huge red chin zit" every time I have my period.

 

I can't really see myself as a goddess.

 

And I tend to find people's bad habits endearing on some odd level. A certain man's tendency to walk around with a single sock on, for example, or the adorably crooked front teeth. Something like that.

 

You know what the gypsies say, perfection is death.

[alphamale]

When a man falls in love with you, he views you as a goddess. .

i'm sorry but I must laugh here...ha ahaha ahah haa hhah haha hha ha ha

 

the only "goddess" i've known was my ma...

[RecordProducer]

I used the words "goddess" and "hero" for a woman and man, respectively. Since you took them too seriously, please insert the word "sweet" instead.

 

Now replace sweet with bitter and you get my point.

 

You have to find enough strength to fight with your own problems, not put the burden on your partner so you can breathe freely. Nobody likes to be somebody's mule and carry their emotional baggage on their back.

[Ripples]

That's very interesting, RP. I've always thought that a relationship is best when the two people can share their problems. Maybe it's about sharing without blaming...

[Interloper]

It's true that women are getting fed up with the whole game, and may wish to give up completely on men and the avoid the stress.

 

Men are certainly thinking this way too. In fact, this is a large reason for the whole "player culture". These men have decided that pursuing real relationships is simply not worth the stress and hassle involved and see "picking up" as an easier alternative. Unfortunately, these "players" are not doing any of us much good, as many girls are attracted to them, and consequently spat out by them, making women even more cynical in the process. Meanwhile, the nice guy stands by watching all of this and wonders why he can't find a girlfriend. After years of being ignored, women finally show interest in him when it comes time for them to settle down and raise a family as they are looking for a nice dependable guy. The nice guy realises this and is pissed off and refuses to settle down.

 

Porn also has it's place in mens lives as you can get a similar result and have the variety of a different woman each time. It's just easier and less hassle.

 

Things are ugly now when it comes to interperonal relationships between women and men, but i fear it is going to get a whole lot worse. Anyway, just my 2 cents.

[Woggle]

It's true that women are getting fed up with the whole game, and may wish to give up completely on men and the avoid the stress.

 

Men are certainly thinking this way too. In fact, this is a large reason for the whole "player culture". These men have decided that pursuing real relationships is simply not worth the stress and hassle involved and see "picking up" as an easier alternative. Unfortunately, these "players" are not doing any of us much good, as many girls are attracted to them, and consequently spat out by them, making women even more cynical in the process. Meanwhile, the nice guy stands by watching all of this and wonders why he can't find a girlfriend. After years of being ignored, women finally show interest in him when it comes time for them to settle down and raise a family as they are looking for a nice dependable guy. The nice guy realises this and is pissed off and refuses to settle down.

 

Porn also has it's place in mens lives as you can get a similar result and have the variety of a different woman each time. It's just easier and less hassle.

 

Things are ugly now when it comes to interperonal relationships between women and men, but i fear it is going to get a whole lot worse. Anyway, just my 2 cents.

 

 

This is very true. It is a vicious cycle on both sides and one I am a glad I no longer have to be a part of. I am so glad to have found a great woman so I no longer have to deal with this drama. When did the dating world become this vicious?

[Outcast]

When a man falls in love with you, he views you as a goddess. If you break that image in his mind

 

If he thinks you a goddess, he's setting himself up to crash and burn and you with him. We're just humans and ought to neither want to be adored or to adore. Loving a real human who has clay feet is a more genuine love than loving some imagined (and non-existent) ideal.

 

However I do believe that respect is a critical part of love and that people should not act in a way that will lose them the respect of their partners. Hopefully, that means that they behave in a genuine manner and that they don't have to pretend to be better people than they actually are.

 

One of the benefits of a relationship is that the other person is your 'soft place to land' - someone who's got your back when times are rough. Knowing that each other is a supporter who will be there when problems arise is not a weakness, but the basis of a healthy mutual interdependence. Think soldiers in a field - nothing unpleasant about them relying on one another to help each other out when necessary.

 

Of course, you can't be a drama queen who daily suffers major 'problems' like not having enough pairs of Manolos.

[RecordProducer]

That's very interesting, RP. I've always thought that a relationship is best when the two people can share their problems. Maybe it's about sharing without blaming...

Now you're simplifying a very complex interaction of emotions into 'Why can't we all get along?'

 

Yeah, why? If you don't try to answer your question you'll never know why. And you'll wonder why your prince turned into a frog. If you're drowning in tears and bad moods 24/7 for years, do you think your partner should share that with you all the time? Would you be surprised if after a while they're not attracted to the image of you anymore?

[SmoochieFace]

If he thinks you a goddess, he's setting himself up to crash and burn and you with him. We're just humans and ought to neither want to be adored or to adore. Loving a real human who has clay feet is a more genuine love than loving some imagined (and non-existent) ideal.

 

This 'goddess' thing is ridiculous. It reeks of narcissism and, IMO, if guys think of their GFs/spouses/whatever as 'goddesses' then they need a reality check. Women are human beings just like men - with a few major differences, of course and none of which have anything to do with 'goddess' qualities.

 

Anyway... I thought it was only the spineless 'nice guys' who think of women as 'goddesses'. Putting them up on a pedestal and all...

'

 

However I do believe that respect is a critical part of love and that people should not act in a way that will lose them the respect of their partners. Hopefully, that means that they behave in a genuine manner and that they don't have to pretend to be better people than they actually are.

 

True. Being genuine works better than putting on an act - especially an act for nefarious purposes.

 

 

One of the benefits of a relationship is that the other person is your 'soft place to land' - someone who's got your back when times are rough. Knowing that each other is a supporter who will be there when problems arise is not a weakness, but the basis of a healthy mutual interdependence. Think soldiers in a field - nothing unpleasant about them relying on one another to help each other out when necessary.

 

It's all about working together as a team. It isn't about competing with each other.

 

 

Of course, you can't be a drama queen who daily suffers major 'problems' like not having enough pairs of Manolos.

 

...

[superconductor]

Unless I miss my guess here, RP's "goddess" and "hero" characterizations are simply metaphors relating to sundry Graeco-Roman deities; not meant to be taken literally.

[SmoochieFace]

Unless I miss my guess here, RP's "goddess" and "hero" characterizations are simply metaphors relating to sundry Graeco-Roman deities; not meant to be taken literally.

 

You would be surprised at the number of people who are so into themselves that they would use those terms in a literal sense.

[Ripples]

Now you're simplifying a very complex interaction of emotions into 'Why can't we all get along?'

Er, 'all'? I thought we were talking about in a love relationship. It's pretty simple, now, in my own.

 

Yeah, why? If you don't try to answer your question you'll never know why. And you'll wonder why your prince turned into a frog. If you're drowning in tears and bad moods 24/7 for years, do you think your partner should share that with you all the time? Would you be surprised if after a while they're not attracted to the image of you anymore?

I get the impression you're attacking me, and I'm not sure why.

 

However, back to the point. I disagree with the notion that one should deal with one's problems all on one's own, not share them with one's partner. I feel that sharing problems is constructive within a relationship.

 

In my own relationship, we have both learnt how to share, how to explain feelings without blame and that hasn't been massively easy, however it has been achieved and whilst my partner doesn't regard me as a 'goddess', he loves the fact I deal best with problems when I can share them with him. He also likes being able to share problems with me, he can be vulnerable somewhere he won't be thought less of.

 

I feel the key to sharing is about blame, and if the blame is removed, empathy is far easier to give. It good knowing I can be down and my partner won't judge me, knowing he's on my side. That, in itself, helps me enormously to come back up.

 

If someone is crying 24/7 for years, I would suspect that they have issues far bigger than they can deal with with anyone's help, but far less on their own.

[DanielMadr]

You can be (are) D1CK, PUZZY or AZZHOLE (aka MAN, WUSSY, JERK). Always was, always will be.

MEN are always the same, world havent changed that much. MEN dont do acting (new age guy, sensitive one, anti-hero one etc.). MEN dont seek approval, they know what is right and what is wrong and MEN dont ask women what they should become to get to their panties....wussies do that.

 

Simple as that.

[DanielMadr]

We love women because they are pretty, soft, smell nice and behave feminime. When they nag, play games, cry for no serious reason or think too much(the same goes to men) we are better single. Feminism is negativistic movement saying "There is nothnig wrong with you, the world is wrong...lets change it" it is dangerous thinking.

[lindya]

We love women because they are pretty, soft, smell nice and behave feminime. When they nag, play games, cry for no serious reason or think too much(the same goes to men) we are better single.

 

You're taking exactly the same idealistic standpoint that encourages some women to reject men in the way Superconductor outlined in his first post. Take a flowery, unrealistic perception of how the opposite sex should be...forgetting that men and women are just human beings who - like any other animal - are prone to behavioural flaws and the odd grotty habit. Storm off in disgust the moment your idealised other half proves to be less than perfect.

 

Feminism is negativistic movement saying "There is nothnig wrong with you, the world is wrong...lets change it" it is dangerous thinking.

 

The world is not the sum total of the human societies living in it. Society needs to change from time to time, and in many ways this serves the world's interests. For instance, many women (and men) are rejecting the notion of getting a partner and squeezing out a couple of kids. Given the constantly increasing number of people entering the planet and guzzling limited resources, that might well be a good thing from Nature's perspective.

 

As an aside (ie this doesn't relate directly to your post or the topic of this thread) I've noticed a strange phenomenon on LS. Many of the men who complain most bitterly about the perceived "feminisation" of men are the same ones who will argue most vociferously against the US administration's testosterone pumped approach to conflict resolution. It seems to me that there's a fair bit of muddled thinking there. Perhaps that's an idea for a separate thread.

[DanielMadr]

You're taking exactly the same idealistic standpoint that encourages some women to reject men in the way Superconductor outlined in his first post. Take a flowery, unrealistic perception of how the opposite sex should be...forgetting that men and women are just human beings who - like any other animal - are prone to behavioural flaws and the odd grotty habit. Storm off in disgust the moment your idealised other half proves to be less than perfect.

 

 

 

The world is not the sum total of the human societies living in it. Society needs to change from time to time, and in many ways this serves the world's interests. For instance, many women (and men) are rejecting the notion of getting a partner and squeezing out a couple of kids. Given the constantly increasing number of people entering the planet and guzzling limited resources, that might well be a good thing from Nature's perspective.

 

As an aside (ie this doesn't relate directly to your post or the topic of this thread) I've noticed a strange phenomenon on LS. Many of the men who complain most bitterly about the perceived "feminisation" of men are the same ones who will argue most vociferously against the US administration's testosterone pumped approach to conflict resolution. It seems to me that there's a fair bit of muddled thinking there. Perhaps that's an idea for a separate thread.

 

1. Im not being idealistic....we love women when they are feminine...unless we are gay or submissive gimp weirdous.

O.K. "playing games" is necessary but i meant non standard b1tchy mind games.

 

2. Change is OK....natural way change is OK. Social enginering way is NOT OK. Especially in the revolutionary negativistic approach way like commies, nazis or feminist would like to do.

 

3. I dont think so. Anti Bush people are the Left ones (and couple of nazis) at least in Europe. When I look to history books...every time US administration become weak - appeasing it turned out to be a pretty good gangf*ck for the rest of the world so hold on Hawks of White House.

[britchick]

The state providing education and healthcare is social engineering. Social engineering to an extent is necessary and desirable.

[lindya]

1. Im not being idealistic....we love women when they are feminine...unless we are gay or submissive gimp weirdous.

O.K. "playing games" is necessary but i meant non standard b1tchy mind games.

 

Is it possible that "bitchy and unfeminine" is simply a negative way for you to describe women who are intellectually sharper than you?

[DanielMadr]

The state providing education and healthcare is social engineering. Social engineering to an extent is necessary and desirable.

 

Social engineering are quotas for gender, race etc. Or massive dotations for single mothers. Take a trip to Sweden or Danes had similar problems recently- they were no marriages because single mother was better on her own...with a partner ofcorse Solidarity is OK but state sponsorship of whatever is bending natural social behaviour.....for example former commie countries with pseudo-social state....its pretty f*ck up there now. Dont make the same mistake.

[DanielMadr]

Is it possible that "bitchy and unfeminine" is simply a negative way for you to describe women who are intellectually sharper than you?

 

Why do you think so? No ofcorse not. Intellectually sharper women can be feminine, when they are not lost in labyrinth of their brain aka structured.

 

Beign negativistic, spoiled, bitchy, bossy,arrogant, no-sexappeal PERSON has nothing to do with brain capacity or social status....its more about complexes, self esteem and emotional baggage.

 

I dont think femists represent woman point of view....they hi jacked some problems and made their own agenda....their role ended when VOTE RIGHT for women where established and ofcorse HUMAN RIGHTS. Household problems...who stays with kids and who brings the bacon should be solved among partners not in entire society. Social cliche they are fighting are only cliches and free people have no problem solving them.