Unconditional Love

[fieryred]

Is there really such a thing as unconditional love? I'm not so sure anymore. I always held it as the example of how a relationship should be, the gold standard. But is it really healthy to continue to love someone who repeatedly does harmful things to themselves and has no time for you? This is a huge inner conflict I'm having.

 

I posted earlier this year about my husband's sudden personality change and drug usage. Since my first post, the only things that have changed are that he has a band which he calls his "second marriage" and now acid and 'shrooms are involved. I am still totally confused. I thought this was just a phase and if I love him unconditionally he would eventually snap out of it. Now I see him even less, and when he is around, it's become apparant that he can't handle being sober.

 

My husband is gone this weekend, at a retreat for his clients (he works with developmentally disabled people). He called me last night and said that it was his free time and he was going to go "hang out" with his buddies but that he would call me later. I don't think I have to explain what "hang out" means in code language. He never called. Several of his friends are girls that are, well, questionable in character, and I get so worried because I know he was "hanging out" with them.

 

My upbringing was strictly Christian and though I have since changed my worldview, I still feel like I can't divorce him. Plus I have him telling me all the time that I'm a drag and I'm so closed-minded. I'm confused and don't know which way is up anymore. But there is a really bad feeling in my stomach and I'm a pretty intuitive person.

 

Anyways, what do you think about unconditional love? Is it something to be desired, and if so, how do you do it? Or is it a bunch of BS?

[superconductor]

The closest a human can come to unconditional love is a mother for her infant. Beyond that, it's a myth, just like having a "soul mate" or "the one" and "you'll just know" other such drivel.

 

And, by the way, I don't think a kind and loving God would sentence you to a lifelong marriage with someone who treats you like dirt and is a slave to their addictions. Do you?

[jonesgirly]

"Unconditional" exists purely between parent and child.

 

You may want to seek the counsel of your priest or pastor regarding this matter. Drug abuse seems like a deal-breaker in any religion.

[Outcast]

When the Bible was written, people didn't usually live much beyond 40 (the real old guys were the exception, not the rule) and life was not nearly as complex as it is now. There were probably some people drinking too much wine and maybe chewing coca leaves or something but not the kind of situation you are talking about. Love does not mean sitting still and accepting abuse. In fact, by putting up with it you in part enable him to continue on a path of self-destruction.

 

Go seek counselling. Lay counselling. There are still throwback pastors who'll insist you must stay married no matter what. They are not the majority and they're dead wrong so to reduce the risk you'll get that sort of reception, talk to a medical professional rather than a clergyman about this.

[Roo]

you need to realize that unconditional love, true love etc... it can exist but it's really more a matter of perception and I beleive that it can only exist when both parnters WORK at the relationship, you need to have some unconditional love for yourself and stop tolerating this behavior it shows a complete and total lack of respect for you as well as himself. YOU DESERVE BETTER!

[michelangelo]

It doesn't really exist between two romantically-connected people.

 

It is a fantasy fueled by the goofy emotions when people become enfatuated.

 

Once that calms down some the true nature of the love comes out.

 

It is dependent upon a lot of things. respect, shared interests, time together, lack of violence, no substance abuse, good income, and so on.

 

A mother's love for her child is about it for unconditional love.

[Moose]

It doesn't really exist between two romantically-connected people.

 

It is a fantasy fueled by the goofy emotions when people become enfatuated.

 

Once that calms down some the true nature of the love comes out.

 

It is dependent upon a lot of things. respect, shared interests, time together, lack of violence, no substance abuse, good income, and so on.

 

A mother's love for her child is about it for unconditional love.

Well, I'm going to be the first to disagree with you all.

 

It does exist between a man and a wife. There's nothing my wife could do that would cause me to lose my love for her......nothing....and in having this very conversation with her, she doesn't believe there would be anything I could do to cause her to lose her love for me.

 

I think of a lot of couples that I've know through the years who wound up growing old together, even changing the other's diapers.....the hardships they've endured, the victories they've shared, and so on....it does exist...

[Moose]

I thought this was just a phase and if I love him unconditionally he would eventually snap out of it. Now I see him even less, and when he is around, it's become apparant that he can't handle being sober

Been there, done that. Except, mine wasn't shrooms and acid. Beer and pot though....he'll have to hit rock bottom before he snaps out of it.

My upbringing was strictly Christian and though I have since changed my worldview, I still feel like I can't divorce him.

Then, you'll have to trust God's word.

 

I can't find exactly where, but a wife should be an example to her husband on how to live his life. This is what my wife did for me, and it turned me around. She lives a Christ like life, and I want to make her proud that I'm her husband.

 

Of course, none of that happened until I hit rock bottom. And as sad as it may be, you'll most likely have to sit back and watch it all happen.....

[blind_otter]

 

I think of a lot of couples that I've know through the years who wound up growing old together, even changing the other's diapers.....the hardships they've endured, the victories they've shared, and so on....it does exist...

 

I have to agree with Moose, here, actually. I wouldn't have before, until I saw my Mom and Dad the other day. I mean, of course above all she is caring for him 24/7, but she held his feet in her lap and hugged his legs to her chest and looked up at him with the most beautiful expression, of love, compassion, grief, gratitude....it's something I will never forget, and evidence to me that unconditional love does exist.

 

But it's hard. It doesn't come into existence and then go on auto pilot, and if you don't work hard to cultivate the necessary compassion, then it will die. It's fragile, like an orchid, but just as purely beautiful.

 

Time was, years ago, when my Dad had horrible flashbacks to the war. When he tried to drink himself to death. And my Mom had PTSD from the war, too. Bad news. They had it hard and struggled. Very nearly divorced. But they fought through it.

 

And when my Mom was looking up at my Dad they chuckled to each other, about all that. Even the worst parts, they laughed at together. They talked about how they had hardship and pain, failures and successes.

 

Anyways to the OP - drug use usually reflects a struggle that the user is going through inside themselves. When it becomes habitual, it is no longer a "good times" kind of habit. It's a way to run away. It's a failure in the learned coping skills, a loss of one's internal footing.

 

Anyways, I ask this in all seriousness, what would Jesus do if faced with a similar situation? Would he turn his back, or open his heart with compassion? He did keep company with prositutes and tax collectors, ya know.

 

I hope things resolve for you in the most beneficial way.

[michelangelo]

If we're talking about romantic love as opposed to compassion for our fellow man, there are preconditions for romantic feelings that are not there for compassion.

 

For example, a partner's serial infidelities would snuff out any romantic love I have for them.

 

I may then feel pity for them and have compassion for their weaknesses. But I would not love them anymore.

 

I don't believe Jesus was romantically inclined towards the tax collectors.

[Moose]

For example, a partner's serial infidelities would snuff out any romantic love I have for them.

There is a cause and an effect in every human condition.

 

Infidelity, most times are the cause of an emotionally inattentive partner.....

[michelangelo]

it is not a result of another person's failings.

 

people who cheat like that crutch to point to to lessen their guilt.

[Becoming]

Even unconditional love judges in order to promote good.

 

God loves us unconditionally, but even God judges behavior that goes against the divine intentions for shalom (peace, wholeness, harmony, justice, easy-flowing good relationality).

 

Jesus judged those who harmed others with their behavior.

 

It sounds like your H is harming you, whether he intends to or not. He's caught in his own hell right now for whatever reason. That doesn't mean you have to go there with him.

 

I agree that your behavior can win him back, but part of that behavior can be taking a strong stand against his destructiveness, which Jesus also did.

 

And even if you don't want a divorce, that doesn't mean that you have to live with him while he's like this. This doesn't sound like an occasional joint kinda thing. Acid? Around the disabled? How can this be good? And is not good God's intentions?

 

Go with God's intentions and choose good. If your H doesn't choose that, you can still love him, but if you love him more than God's good, you're worshipping an idol that will only cause you harm in the end.

 

Find a decent church and take care of yourself. Go to Al-Anon. Choose life, and it'll be easier to know what love is and does, including judge, not to be mean or hurtful, but to encourage Life.

[quankanne]

Drug abuse seems like a deal-breaker in any religion.

 

v. true – even the Catholic Church, which presumes that every marriage is valid, grants annulments in those cases in which contrary evidence is proven (Canon 1060). Meaning, there are instances in which a marriage can be considered invalid, such as abuse or when the couple doesn't marry of free will (rushing into marriage because of pregnancy comes to mind). So, if the Catholic Church has historically been the first to recognize what constitutes a valid ("sacramental") marriage, it would follow that other Christian faiths would view the situation similarly.

 

when someone like Moose holds up his own life as an example or we hear about Otter's daddy, it shows that a person can slay the demon that affects his marriage for the sake of keeping that marriage whole.

 

I think in your heart of hearts, you know what the breaking point is in your marriage, and if your husband refuses to help heal it by refusing to get treatment for his addiction, you are not morally obliged to stay in that relationship because it is not a whole marriage anymore.

 

this is never an easy thing to have to deal with, but you are the only one who knows what you are capable of coping in this particular relationship, and therefore are the only one who can say what the "right" answer is.

 

God bless,

quank

[Roo]

But it's hard. It doesn't come into existence and then go on auto pilot, and if you don't work hard to cultivate the necessary compassion, then it will die. It's fragile, like an orchid, but just as purely beautiful.

 

This is what I was trying to say in my first post about it taking work from both partners.

 

It does exist between a man and a wife. There's nothing my wife could do that would cause me to lose my love for her......nothing....and in having this very conversation with her, she doesn't believe there would be anything I could do to cause her to lose her love for me.

 

I agree I might get to a point where I might not love him like I used to, even where I couldn't live with him or be married to him, but I would ALWAYS love him.

[flowergirl]

Fiery:

 

I know what it's like to be with an addict. You keep thinking that you can love them out of their pain and destructive ways. YOU CAN'T. Addicts are fractured people incapable of loving anyone because they are caught up in their own neuroses. All sitting around is gonna do is bring you further down. I know it hurts, but you need to leave and find yourself again, then perhaps down the road you'll find a healthier relationship. My prayers are with you.

[Mz. Pixie]

it is not a result of another person's failings.

 

people who cheat like that crutch to point to to lessen their guilt.

 

Wrong- according to marriage counselors and authorities on such matters.

 

Do you know who Willard Harley is??? He's written one of the most popular books of all time about marriage and he says that even the most moral, Christian people will be severly tempted to cheat and often times do cheat when their top 5 emotional needs are unmet for a long period of time.

 

To the OP- yes, unconditional love between marriage partners is possible- but I think its rare. It requires alot of hard work. Drug abuse is something I couldn't tolerate. That's something I wouldn't want my children exposed to.

 

Even the lowest bands have groupies. There are always women around that want to sleep with the band. I think it's very hard to be faithful in a situation like that- add in the drugs and it's often a disaster.

[michelangelo]

Ms Pixie,

 

I'd agree that unmet needs leads to temptation. But nobody cheats without making a personal choice to dismiss their vows.

 

We all are tempted by something.

 

I just believe that we all have to own our own actions.

[Mz. Pixie]

Ms Pixie,

 

I'd agree that unmet needs leads to temptation. But nobody cheats without making a personal choice to dismiss their vows.

 

We all are tempted by something.

 

I just believe that we all have to own our own actions.

 

And I wholeheartedly agree.

 

There is that point when the person makes the choice to step over the line.

 

Everyone can be tempted. Everyone can fall as well. Thinking you are above it, as I once did though can set you up to fail. It only takes the right set of circumstances for it all to happen.