why do taken men look at porn??

[HUMMINGBIRDLOVE]

Ok here is my theory I believe a good relationship should have good communication,love,sex,and all the other things that everyone wants since everyone is different but... if I don't like porn and my bf doesn't and he loves me and porn is not a needed thing IN MY RELATIONSHIP it is a self gratification tool for others who ARE NOT IN A RELATIONSHIP OR JUST BOARD why should others make people like me feel as outcasts for not having that in my relationship my bf's brother and girlfriend have a very open relationship and we see them often thier sex life is not good becouse of her having back to back kids and being tired all the time she is 24 he is 22 porn is very important to him and he uses all his energy trying to promote it to us she does not mind it becouse it keeps him off of her and that is sad I think ... but we have a great sex life I am open for everything but another person or porn becouse personally I believe if I can't keep him happy or keep the fire going well then he needs to find another girlfriend and so far so good )

[Rhyla]

The reason that it is illegal (outside of just being morally wrong on every level) is that children are not able to make an adult, conscience decision to engage in sexual behavior, in front of a camera for other people's sexual gratification. An adult can make that decision and know what they are doing, a child is most definitely exploited in the most horrific of ways. Thus the CREATION of child pornography is a serious crime and being in possession of an illegal item is also a crime.

 

Regular adult porn is not illegal to make, thus not illegal to possess.

 

That is the my personal Cliff Notes reasoning.

 

Oooh, I actually like where this logic is going. OK, so child porn is illegal, fine. But what about fantasy (if fantasy is just fantasy and means nothing.) Is it ok for a 40 year old father to fantasize about screwing his 5 year old daugther as long as he NEVER acts on it any way? By your logic, fantasy is harmless, so you should have no problem with this, right? Some how I doubt it.

 

You only claim fantasy/porn/whatever is harmless when it BENEFITS you to do so. But that doesn't make it so.

[Rhyla]

Well, I don't see them as real people. So as far as I’m concerned, there’s no “other party” involved. I completely agree with the “no other parties” rule. However, I just don't see pictures and videos as "other people". Personally, I think when you take on that kind of job, you renounce any idea of a “self“. Porn is designed to be rediculously fake and idealized/exaggerated. Why do you think porn stars aren't objects? That’s what the term “sex object” means. Object. Symbol. You become a representation of a particular kink/personal taste; designed for public consumption. They sell media of themselves shagging. They aren't delivering speeches on BBC about the Iraq War. Porn stars are no more real to me than the characters of “24”.

 

 

Do I know what porn stars are like off-camera? No. Do I give a ****? Nope. Does anyone care what Jenna Jameson’s favorite book is? Her favorite childhood memory? Where she likes to vacation? I certainly don’t.

 

 

And this is exactly what my moral objection is. They ARE still people, whether you want to think about that little fact or not. What you're saying, is that as long as there are people willing to degregate and let themselves be used as objects that it's ok for us to enjoy and encourage it. I think if it was something that you didn't have so much interest in, you wouldn't be so quick to use that logic. If someone was willing to mutilate themselves on stage, and let others do the same - is it ok because it's payed for and they're willing to go through it? Aren't they still a human being, not a consumable for our entertainment?

 

I don't respect what these men and women do. But I at least have a little compassion in my heart to see that they are still people. I don't believe it should ever be encouraged to treat women like objects, I don't give a **** if the porn girls don't care - I care about what me and my bf are doing, and he wont objectify them like that and I respect him tremendously for it.

 

 

 

I think you missed the point I was making with that statement, based on your emphasis of “who I love is still who I love”. Perhaps that’s my fault though. My ultimate point was not “my feelings for her are the same, therefore I can do [X]”. It was a response to all of the statements by women insisting that waxing your carrot to porn means that those feelings have changed.

 

(Example:“He’s looking at porn, so that must mean he isn‘t satisfied with me and thinks I‘m a hideous bridge troll.”)

 

Fair enough, and here is something that you and me can actually agree on.

 

Someone else said this better than me...

 

"Not to mention, most men watch guy/girl porn, not just look at photos of girls or watch movies of just girls. And if they're watching guy/girl porn it has nothing to do with him OR you. It just turns him on. It's not like he's imagining himself doing her, he's just getting off to her because she's hot and is getting off to the guy doing her or what not."

-Hummingbird343

 

Nice way to skirt around it, but you never actually answered my original question. Please feel free to look back a couple posts and give it another go. I like to stay on topic.

 

Perfectly valid point. However, since most people complaining about porn bring up statements along the lines of “it makes me feel i’m not good enough”, you’ll excuse me for using insecurity as the “norm”. Those who have objections to it for other reasons, they aren’t the people I’m addressing. If Jesus tells you it’s wrong to wax your carrot, that’s pretty much the end. Can’t argue with that. If it “just crosses a line” with the SO, then hey, same deal.

 

Thank you. It is encouraging to know that there at least a few places where we can see eye to eye.

 

If it’s a moral objection, then that’s just comedy. Why? Because I always find it amusing how women get up in arms about porn being demeaning to women, when the women doing the porn apparently aren’t too upset about it, if they're taking the job. Apparently a lot of women are willing to demean themselves for money. The choices and lifestyles of those women is no reflection upon the rest of you. Just because some chinese girl is doing back-to-back bukkake scenes, that doesn't mean I suddenly see my girl as the same kind of skank. It's rediculous. It's like me saying that rapists and serial killers make me look bad. I’ve never understood that argument anyway. But damn...this seems like something for a whole different thread, so I’ll stop there.

 

Your morals are your own. I never said that your opinion of your girl would change. I said that I believe it is morally wrong to objectify and degrade both women and men. I respect the porn stars choice to do what they do, but I don't agree with it. And I don't agree with the consumers who perpetuate the objectification by continuing to treat and look at them as such.

 

You don't have to agree with me for a second, everyone is entitled to lay their morals where they will. But that is my stand, and I could not be in a relationship with someone who would do that - that is my choice and I believe it is valid and rational.

 

Again, we seem to be dealing with the person/object issue. All the examples you mentioned involve other people whom you are interacting with. I would not find such behaviors acceptable in a relationship, nor would I expect anyone else to accept it if I did them. But porn is not a person. It’s an image or video file. First cousin to thinking up a scenario yourself.

 

 

 

You keep bringing up really bad examples. But many women in the thread are doing that. We say “porn pics/vids” and as equivalents, you ladies say “male strippers/manwhores/booty calls/one night stands/massage guys/live webcams/becoming a camwhore”. All of those examples involve you interacting with another person. Interaction. That means two people, who are aware of each other’s existence, doing freaky things together. Those things are no-nos in a relationship, unless otherwise agreed upon.

 

Porn is not sentient. If porn WERE sentient, you might have a decent analogy. As is, however, it doesn’t work.

 

A romance novel would be an equivalent to porn because it is non-interactive media. The pages don’t grow digits and start fingerbanging you. You’re pleasuring yourself with the aid of your imagination and the “preset fantasy” provided by the book. The same thing goes for guys and porn. On the other hand, taking naughty photos of yourself and putting them on the net is very much interactive. Especially if you’re doing it to feel “sexy and desired”. Primarily, because in order to know that you are “considered sexy and desired” by your patrons, you’d probably have to set up some message board or chat room where people could skeet-skeet-skeet their complements at you.

 

 

Lets play a little logic game, shall we.

 

Proposition A: Person X makes and distributes nudie photos

Proposition B: Person Y looks at said photos.

Proposition C: Person X and Y are not interacting

 

Logic statement: If A and B, then not C

 

So, If Pornstar makes and distributes nudie photos, and you look at them, then you are not interacting.

 

So, why then, If I substitute X and Y for myself does the following statement become false:

 

If I make and distribute nudie photos, and another person looks at them, then we are not interacting.

 

It takes two to "interact." So if you're excuse is that you're interacting, you have no logical reason to say that what I would be doing is any different, Correct?

 

I really, REALLY want to know what your response is to this.

 

My nudie photos are no more sentient than the ones you look at. I never said anything about having a message board, or interacting in any way with the people who are looking at them. It would simply be the fantasy that there was someone out there looking at them that would get me all hot and bothered.

 

I'm sorry, some of my "examples" were kind of extreme. I misinterpretted some of your statements and was writing on emotion. I think I've presented a clearer argument and response here. I'd like to know your thoughts.

[Carbine]

I understand that girls that don't watch porn might be offended but GM has it right, it really is NO REFLECTION ON YOU!!!! It has NOTHING to do with you at ALL!!!!

 

Whether or not it's his personal reflection on me is debatable and really not worth going through AGAIN. However, For argument's sake, let's say that you're right. So what? Just because he's not lying on top of me simultaneously watching porn and saying "Geez, that chick is getting me off way more than you do" it's ok is it? It still makes ME feel uncomfortable, worthless, insecure or however you wish to refer to it. And I have every right to feel that way. AND i have every right to bring it up with him and request that he changes his behaviour. Why is that too much to ask? If he wants to be in a relationship with me, then he should be prepared to listen to my concerns. And even if he doesn't necessarily understand where I'm coming from after discussing things, that's no reason to write me off as being petty, insecure and neurotic! Why can't he just believe me and believe that for reasons beyond what his simple male mind can comprehend, his use of porn hurts me deeply.

 

I don't know...maybe it IS a male/female issue after all, maybe women really don't understand the male 'need' for porn and assume that it's simply not as critical to him and thus, should be given up if she requests. Still, I think it's more likely to be a respect issue rather than a gender one.

 

Even though I understand where you girls are coming from, I really don't agree with you [...] Why don't you girls lose the insecurities, the jealousy and the hypocrisies and just accept it[...]You're insecure, I get that, but why are you?[...]BECAUSE HE WANTS TO BE WITH YOU. PORN JUST TURNS HIM ON. BUT SO DO YOU!!! WHY DON'T YOU JUST LEARN TO DEAL WITH IT AND GET OVER YOUR JEALOUSY AND INSECURITIES.

 

And why don't you QUIT YELLING AT US WHAT TO DO when it's obvious that YOU ACTUALLY HAVE NO IDEA WHERE 'YOU GIRLS ARE COMING FROM'??? Your understanding is limited to being able to read the thread but beyond that, your post blatantly shows that you really don't have a grasp on what it's like to feel insecure. I find it irritating to be told by a male that i should 'just get over it'. But I find it incredibly insulting when a female advises me and the rest of the world to do the same thing, based solely on her limited personal circumstances. Hummingbird, have you actually experienced low self-esteem and deep-seated insecurities? If you really are a female, then I've absolutely no idea how you've managed to avoid it, living in the day and age we do. But telling someone to 'lose the jealousy/insecurities/hypocrisies and to simply get over it, is a completely useless suggestion, with or without you being able to explain yourself further. So, since you are so well versed on the topic, what are your suggestions for just getting over it? Please, enlighten us...

 

But let me ask you one question, ladies. How do you know what your man is thinking about when he masturbates to the things "inside his mind"? If you could see in there, what you would find in those dark recesses might disturb you more than airbrushed porn broads ever would. What if, in lack of a set "visual itinerary" of wank material, his mind drifted to, say, the hot secretary at work? Your sister? Your best friend?

 

Well, either way, I'm not thrilled. But if it's 'just inside his mind' then I AM shielded from it to a degree. That's not to say that I don't find it hurtful, but the pain and shock of being confronted with an on-screen or magazine image of a porn model is a different kind of pain. It's more a stabbing, jolting sort of hurt. If it's there in front of me in black and white (or high-definition plasma colour for that matter) then the whole thing is very final. The images in his mind are different to whats on screen or in a magazine. The mental images of whoever he's fantasising about are never going to be as sharp or confrontational to hard copy porn. This is very difficult for me to try and put into words, but everyone here knows what visualisation is like. The few times I have fantasised about others during sex (or my bf for that matter - it's irrelevant) I know that my fantasies are never ever going to be experienced with the same clarity as an on screen image. The 'format' if you will, is completely different, it's like comparing chalk and cheese. Ugh...i'm making a dogs breakfast of this...I can't explain it much better than that.

 

IMHO this boils down to nothing more then insecurities, lack of trust and control issues, plain and simple. You women want to think that your man will never look at, imagine, or fantasize about another woman for the rest of his life. Well good luck, cause that man has yet to walk to earth and will not in your lifetime. And despite all your whining about it it has NOTHING to do with your man's love and devotion to you, that thought resides soley in your own head.

 

Starman, all you're doing is regurgitating what a bunch of other people have already stated (albeit much more eloquently) on here, and it's totally UNHELPFUL. All you're doing is flaming. Did you actually bother to read what 'you women' have written in the last 20-something pages of this thread? Apparently not because of your sweeping, erroneous accusations. I'm not going to bother going back and debating each of your statements. Except for the 'love and devotion' thing. His porn use may not so much demonstrate his love for me, but it certainly does reflect upon his devotion...

 

Have any of you women bothered to read a romance novel? What do you think that WHOLE industry is for but to provide fantasy for women? I don't hear any men whining about that. Why? Cause we all know that it is FANTASY, NOT REAL! So why feel threatened by make-believe?

 

FYI, no I have not bothered to get through one of these. I've tried, and I was bored to tears after a couple of chapters. The stupid things do not in any way, shape or form turn me on. Besides, porn and romance novels are not comparable! Porn is a picture or series of pictures. They are confronting, in your face, and not very open to interpretation or individual perception. A romance novel is a bunch of black and white print. Unless someone actively picks it up and makes an effort to immerse themselves in it, then there is very little confrontation happening. That, and the fact that reading one of these things requires some effort on behalf of the reader - i.e. to mentally 'play out' what what's happening in the pages. Besides, how many women have you seen that actually read one of these things prior to, or during sex??!

 

I also do not ever fantasize about anyone besides my boyfriend. It just doesn't do anything for me to think about some random stranger. I am happy with my man and have no need for someone esle.

 

I second that. What she's saying is perfectly truthful and possible, (even if it may be a little uncommon). I'm the same, random strangers do not turn me on.

 

It has been a long time since I have seen a porn actress with any assets worth so much jealousy and hatred rainfall. Most are a bit ho-hum, and average. Anyway...

 

Ahem...coming from you, is that really a valid point?

 

Can i ask people a question?This may seem a little strange.Well you know all this child porn going around some men watch it....yes i know its sick to think of but you use this excuse of its not real etc its fantasy!but surely this isnt real so why do people get arrested for it then?I thought it was fantasy?

 

What other people are saying is true about it exploiting kids who aren't mentally and emotionally capable of making such choices. That goes without saying.

BUT

I think the laws surrounding the issue clearly indicate that there is the possiblity of some crossover between fantasising about/watching child porn and actually participating in it. Nobody wants to acknowledge this because it's so damn vile and disturbing. But lets face it - it does happen. If the danger was limited to protecting the wellbeing of the kids in this sort of media, then the laws would only restrict the manufacture and supply of it, not the end-user as well.

[Toni_no12002]

Oooh, I actually like where this logic is going. OK, so child porn is illegal, fine. But what about fantasy (if fantasy is just fantasy and means nothing.) Is it ok for a 40 year old father to fantasize about screwing his 5 year old daugther as long as he NEVER acts on it any way? By your logic, fantasy is harmless, so you should have no problem with this, right? Some how I doubt it.

 

You only claim fantasy/porn/whatever is harmless when it BENEFITS you to do so. But that doesn't make it so.

 

Thats what i was trying to get at.Maybe yes its going a little to the extreme but is it ok for some man to fantasize about such things and its ok because its a fantasy?

 

Maybe some of these women are insecure.I was ive been there but i dont think the hey get over it approach will work.In a relationship there are two people so both feelings should come into consideration.They should come to something so there both happy.

 

If the man carries on watching porn it may add to the insecurities.Men always use the excuse that its normal to watch porn and everyone does it.Yes and if every other bloke walked off a cliff would you do it?

 

Im not taking sides here but i feel for these women because i was there once.

[SoCalChick]

In the words of carlos mencia "Look at your significant other, that's as good as you are both able to get"

Men look at porn to fantasize about women they could never get. They aren't doing it to hurt your feelings or because they think you aren't good enough, they do it because they are horny. End of story!

[Grinning Maniac]

I am secure with myself. I just think that since I do look good and do work my butt of to stay that way my man should not need anyone esle. If he does it is because I am not enough for him. Whether it is because I let myself go (NOT THE CASE), or because he is just a shallow jackass who doesn't really love me.

 

Has he ever said that to you? Or are you just jumping to a conclusion based on nothing but your own hurt feelings (and likely no input from your SO) and automatically declaring it as "absolute truth". Get a grip, lady.

 

Regarding the second part...that's another rather judgmental and presumptuous statement. Who are you to say how he feels about you? Yeesh. He apparently doesn't even get to have a say in it. You just jump to some crazy "if he waxes his carrot then he doesn't love me". Riiight...I imagine he would disagree with you about that. But then again, you probably still wouldn't believe him...even though he'd know better than you.

 

Remember what I said earlier about you insulting yourself and then acting like he said it? Yeah, it applies here.

 

People who feel good about themselves don't do nutty **** like that.

[Pink Amulet]

People who feel good about themselves don't do nutty **** like that.

 

I am going to have to agree with this...

[Grinning Maniac]

And this is exactly what my moral objection is. They ARE still people, whether you want to think about that little fact or not.

 

I really fail to see why. They're putting on an alternate identity and persona. As I said, the person on the screen is about as "real" as a tv character. Are you bringing up this "but they're people!" argument to suggest I should be horrified and feel bad for them? If so, why? They chose the job, not me. Clearly they don't find it as deplorable as you. If you want to harp on the idea that they're people, how about them being "people who decided to shag on camera for money". Not "people who were kidnapped and raped on camera at gunpoint".

 

That's one of the reasons I can't dig on the idea of hookers. Some of them *do* have guns to their heads. Porn stars are not charity cases. Shiiit...they certainly have more money than I do, atm.

 

What you're saying, is that as long as there are people willing to degregate and let themselves be used as objects that it's ok for us to enjoy and encourage it. I think if it was something that you didn't have so much interest in, you wouldn't be so quick to use that logic. If someone was willing to mutilate themselves on stage, and let others do the same - is it ok because it's payed for and they're willing to go through it? Aren't they still a human being, not a consumable for our entertainment?

 

That's absolutely what I'm saying. It's their life. If they want to do that for a living, who are you to say that they shouldn't? When you do porn or put your hand in a meat grinder for money...yeah, you're a consumable thing then. Further, you're wrong about the motivations behind my attitude on such things.

 

"Jackass"

"Fear Factor"

"Extreme Elimination Challenge"

"Letterman's Stupid Human Tricks"

etc..

 

None of those things particularly interest me, but I think people are perfectly within their rights to participate in such activities if that is their wish to do so. People enjoy shaming themselves on camera. Other people enjoy watching them. C'est la vie. By the way...you really shouldn't make arguments about mutilation to someone who enjoys watching Faces of Death videos and car crashes. If someone was scheduled to put a shotgun in their mouth at 9pm on Fox, I'd be in front of the tv with popcorn.

 

 

I don't respect what these men and women do. But I at least have a little compassion in my heart to see that they are still people. I don't believe it should ever be encouraged to treat women like objects, I don't give a **** if the porn girls don't care ...

 

People don't need you to feel outraged for them. Especially about their paths in life. If the porn girls aren't horrified and upset, why should I be?

 

As far as where your morals lie in regards to your own relationship, yeah, that's up to you. No argument there. I'm also glad we agreed on a few things within our massive postings.

 

My nudie photos are no more sentient than the ones you look at. I never said anything about having a message board, or interacting in any way with the people who are looking at them. It would simply be the fantasy that there was someone out there looking at them that would get me all hot and bothered.

 

I'm sorry, some of my "examples" were kind of extreme. I misinterpretted some of your statements and was writing on emotion. I think I've presented a clearer argument and response here. I'd like to know your thoughts.

 

Ok. I see what you're saying now. But you posed the question of whether or not posting nudie photos of yourself online would be ok, even if your partner had a problem with it. So the hypothetical problem he would have is:

"My gf is sharing herself with other people. We're in a relationship. I heard my boss talking to another guy about how great her tits look covered in baby oil and how he wants to do her doggy style while he's typing up TPS Reports on his laptop. This is getting weird."

 

That's a rather different issue than the one we were discussing. Mainly because in the case of "guy waxes carrot to pictures sometimes", there's no one else involved and he isn't doing a striptease for the porn star who took the pictures. I don't know...it's an interesting thought...but it seems backwards for some reason.

[zeldazelda]

"So the hypothetical problem he would have is:

"My gf is sharing herself with other people. We're in a relationship. I heard my boss talking to another guy about how great her tits look covered in baby oil and how he wants to do her doggy style while he's typing up TPS Reports on his laptop. This is getting weird."

 

not muh different than "my boyfriend is sharing his mind and sexuality with other people. we're in a relationship i see him looking at another girl and thinking how great her tits look in baby oil and how he wants to do he doggystyle while i'm asleep in bed. this is getting weird.

 

i'm with the gm on this one, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. if a guy sees nothing wrong with checking out other females in sexual way, he should see nothing wrong with that female enjoying being seen by other men in a sexual way. and if he does, he is a hypocrite.

 

it's the same story over and over. "porn means nothing, it's just a tool, there's no feelings involved." then don't worry about it so much if your girl wants to do it, if it's so harmless.

 

not saying i agree or disagree about porn being bad or good, but come on.

[Grinning Maniac]

Whether or not it's his personal reflection on me is debatable and really not worth going through AGAIN.

 

Um...I'd have to disagree. I thought this was the entire point. It's not "debatable". You ask the guy and see what he says. Most guys here have said a 100 times that it's NOT a personal reflection of feelings/happiness. Way to gloss over that though.

 

Little things like "the opinion of the accused"...yeah, those don't matter.

 

However, for argument's sake, let's say that you're right. So what? Just because he's not lying on top of me simultaneously watching porn and saying "Geez, that chick is getting me off way more than you do" it's ok is it? It still makes ME feel uncomfortable, worthless, insecure or however you wish to refer to it. And I have every right to feel that way. AND i have every right to bring it up with him and request that he changes his behaviour.

 

*snerk* Wait...you just implied that those "omg I'm worthless" feelings are based upon...well...nothing, yet in the same breath you claim that those feelings are perfectly fine to have, and others should change their behavior based on them?

 

Typically when people say they have the right to feel a certain way, it's based on something. Like, "he pulled off my skirt in the middle of a crowded mall...I have a right to feel humiliated." or "He shot my mom in the face, I have a right to feel angry!" or even "My uncle groped my tit for 2 minutes at the dinner table on Christmas Day! I have a right to feel violated!!!"

 

Why is that too much to ask? If he wants to be in a relationship with me, then he should be prepared to listen to my concerns. And even if he doesn't necessarily understand where I'm coming from after discussing things, that's no reason to write me off as being petty, insecure and neurotic!

 

I'm a good listener. But if someone insisted that stroking my sausage to digitized fantasy every now and then, meant that I was explicitly saying "you aren't good enough for me, and I think you're an ugly bitch whom I will use as a warm wet hole for my cock" ...despite my insistance that was not the case? I'd be inclined to write such a person off as loopy. In my world, things have to have reasons.

 

And why don't you QUIT YELLING AT US WHAT TO DO when it's obvious that YOU ACTUALLY HAVE NO IDEA WHERE 'YOU GIRLS ARE COMING FROM'??? Your understanding is limited to being able to read the thread but beyond that, your post blatantly shows that you really don't have a grasp on what it's like to feel insecure. I find it irritating to be told by a male that i should 'just get over it'. But I find it incredibly insulting when a female advises me and the rest of the world to do the same thing, based solely on her limited personal circumstances. Hummingbird, have you actually experienced low self-esteem and deep-seated insecurities? If you really are a female, then I've absolutely no idea how you've managed to avoid it, living in the day and age we do.

 

See...I love this. When men tell women that the "I'm not good enough because you wax your carrot" stuff is crazy, you'll yell at us and say our opinion is invalid because we have penises or something.

 

But when a woman says the same thing, you yell at her and say HER opinion is invalid, because...she's not an insecure nutter? What kind of argument is that? You're not supposed to BE a insecure nutter. If she were an insecure nutter, she wouldn't be disagreeing with you in the first place! She'd be making a thread on LoveShack about how ugly she feels in comparison to porn broads who've been touched up with Photoshop.

 

Get a grip.

 

Well, either way, I'm not thrilled. But if it's 'just inside his mind' then I AM shielded from it to a degree. That's not to say that I don't find it hurtful, but the pain and shock of being confronted with an on-screen or magazine image of a porn model is a different kind of pain. It's more a stabbing, jolting sort of hurt. If it's there in front of me in black and white (or high-definition plasma colour for that matter) then the whole thing is very final. The images in his mind are different to whats on screen or in a magazine. The mental images of whoever he's fantasising about are never going to be as sharp or confrontational to hard copy porn. This is very difficult for me to try and put into words, but everyone here knows what visualisation is like. The few times I have fantasised about others during sex (or my bf for that matter - it's irrelevant) I know that my fantasies are never ever going to be experienced with the same clarity as an on screen image. The 'format' if you will, is completely different, it's like comparing chalk and cheese. Ugh...i'm making a dogs breakfast of this...I can't explain it much better than that.

 

HAW! I knew I was spot on about this. If porn were completely invisible and hid itself like the Predator...THEN there'd be no problem with it. But there's a problem because there are traces.

 

Or rather, you can go obsessively digging through your SO's internet history and hard drive to find traces. God help men around the world if they ever find a way to search through human brains like Google. You'll have me castrated and committed in the same damned day.

[Rhyla]

 

Ok. I see what you're saying now. But you posed the question of whether or not posting nudie photos of yourself online would be ok, even if your partner had a problem with it. So the hypothetical problem he would have is:

"My gf is sharing herself with other people. We're in a relationship. I heard my boss talking to another guy about how great her tits look covered in baby oil and how he wants to do her doggy style while he's typing up TPS Reports on his laptop. This is getting weird."

 

That's a rather different issue than the one we were discussing. Mainly because in the case of "guy waxes carrot to pictures sometimes", there's no one else involved and he isn't doing a striptease for the porn star who took the pictures. I don't know...it's an interesting thought...but it seems backwards for some reason.

 

How am I sharing myself any more with his boss than the porn star is sharing herself with my boyfriend? We're in a relationship, just the same. Can't you see the logic of it. It's either an interaction or it's not. It has to work both ways, you can't have an interaction without at least 2 people.

 

It seems backwards because it's not what you're conditioned to. You're used to being on the "receiving" end and thinking of it as not being an interaction. And, I'm sure you wouldnt want your girlfriend "sharing herself" with anyone. (Just like I don't think its appropriate that any pornstar "shares" herself with my BF in the same manner.) It's just not what you're used to, but it's a perfectly valid, logical arguement.

 

You really have to decide if it's considered an interaction or not, if you're ok with one, I don't see how you could logically, and rationally not be ok with the other (i can see how emotionally, and irrationaly you couldn't be ok with it - the same way many women on this post are emotionally and irrationally protesting their BFs porn use)

 

I know I'm not going to change anyone's opinions on here. I know you and all the other guys are going to go and continue to do what you do. I'm just trying to share another viewpoint, one that is based in rationallity, so that maybe, just maybe you can see a valid reason why it can be hurtful.

[Grinning Maniac]

not muh different than "my boyfriend is sharing his mind and sexuality with other people. we're in a relationship i see him looking at another girl and thinking how great her tits look in baby oil and how he wants to do he doggystyle while i'm asleep in bed. this is getting weird.

 

Porn is not "other people". Please understand this. Take a poll. Can we get some guys' opinions? I know I'm not alone in calling bull**** on this. It's a picture.

 

Also, I didn't realize the topic was "girl becoming solo porn queen". I thought that was just an example Rhyla brought up. But if you want to go there, personally, I don't think I'd have a problem with it, so long as she wasn't communicating in any way with the wankers. Were I to hear the example conversation above I'd probably laugh to myself and enjoy the fact that they're giving themselves "chapped dick" over someone I'm actually getting to sleep with.

 

 

Literal "other people" intruding in the relationship is really the only thing I ever have issue with.

[Pink Amulet]

Let sleeping dogs lie- no one can help the way they feel. I think the ladies on here will never have the minds changed for them.

 

They just need to find men who are willing to accept the way they feel about it, and honour their relationship by respecting their wishes.

 

Although limited in number, there are men out there who find pornography low class, tasteless, scissors through their moral fibre etc.

 

Find one of them!

[rainfall]

Has he ever said that to you? Or are you just jumping to a conclusion based on nothing but your own hurt feelings (and likely no input from your SO) and automatically declaring it as "absolute truth". Get a grip, lady.

 

Regarding the second part...that's another rather judgmental and presumptuous statement. Who are you to say how he feels about you? Yeesh. He apparently doesn't even get to have a say in it. You just jump to some crazy "if he waxes his carrot then he doesn't love me". Riiight...I imagine he would disagree with you about that. But then again, you probably still wouldn't believe him...even though he'd know better than you.

 

Remember what I said earlier about you insulting yourself and then acting like he said it? Yeah, it applies here.

 

People who feel good about themselves don't do nutty **** like that.

 

 

He doesn't have to say it to me. I f he needs other people in order to get turned on and masturbate then I am clearly not right for him. In my opinion people who feel good about themselves don't put up with porn because they know they are better then the women in it.

 

Men need to get a grip and understand why their SO might have a problem with their desire to screw someone esle.

 

If a man needs to look at other women he is shallow. If he can not be happy with just his so then he is a jack ass.

 

Now I am referring to the men who date women who are against porn. NOT THE ONES WHOSE PARTNERS APPROVE.

 

I find the pron chicks to have no class and do not respect them. For him to choose a women like that over me is wrong.

[amerikajin]

He doesn't have to say it to me. I f he needs other people in order to get turned on and masturbate then I am clearly not right for him. In my opinion people who feel good about themselves don't put up with porn because they know they are better then the women in it.

 

Men need to get a grip and understand why their SO might have a problem with their desire to screw someone esle.

 

If a man needs to look at other women he is shallow. If he can not be happy with just his so then he is a jack ass.

 

Now I am referring to the men who date women who are against porn. NOT THE ONES WHOSE PARTNERS APPROVE.

 

I find the pron chicks to have no class and do not respect them. For him to choose a women like that over me is wrong.

 

Let me pose a hypothetical:

 

Let's say you walk in on your man spanking it to a porn one day....you'd automatically break up with him just like that?

 

Let's say you find a new guy and then eventually get married and you end up dealing with the same thing ten years into a marriage...you'd get a divorce?

 

I'm assuming in both cases there's no evidence which would indicate a possible relationship with someone, just a casual fantasy from afar. If the woman in question were someone you knew or someone he knew (i.e. someone within reach) I could definitely see that being a problem. But if you walk in on him spanking it to a picture of Mariah Carey or J-Lo or Paris Hilton...you'd just walk?

 

Good luck. You can find someone who fits within the framework of your ideal, but there's a good chance that whoever you're with is going to let you down. I'm not saying "just roll over and accept it" but I think the hard line you're taking is extreme.

[Toni_no12002]

I spoke to a male friend of mine and asked him if he watched porn.He said he doesnt anymore because its addictive and because each time he went to look at it he found himself looking for something more!

I think in the shot term porn can be useful but in the long run i think its bad news.I can see how people get addicted to it.

[amerikajin]

And this is exactly what my moral objection is. They ARE still people, whether you want to think about that little fact or not.

 

Having videotaped sex does not make one less human. Posing nude does not make one less human. Thanks to the Bible and other religious doctrines, our society hypocritically sends us mixed messages, that on the one hand, showing skin is bad, because the human body is disgusting and should be covered up; yet Madison Ave. has no problem using subtle and not-so-subtle messages of sexuality to sell goods and services to consumers, and neither gender really seems to mind it all that much as long as it's PG-13. End the hypocrisy: if it's not immoral for hypocritical religious conservatives to sit in their executive suite and market products to consumers using sex, they shouldn't get their nuts tangled up if someone uses more overt messages to sell sex in its appopriate place - provided that it's target audience is of age to purchase and everyone involved consents to be involved.

 

What you're saying, is that as long as there are people willing to degregate and let themselves be used as objects that it's ok for us to enjoy and encourage it. I think if it was something that you didn't have so much interest in, you wouldn't be so quick to use that logic. If someone was willing to mutilate themselves on stage, and let others do the same - is it ok because it's payed for and they're willing to go through it? Aren't they still a human being, not a consumable for our entertainment?

 

Damn right that's what I'm saying. If someone wants to jump in a stock car and risk their lives driving at 225 mph, they should be allowed to; if they want to step in the Octagon and fight in the Ultimate Fighting Championship, nobody should get in their way of doing it and watching it; if someone wants to tie themselves up and be whipped by a dominatrix and have it filmed, more power to the whipper and whippee. You can objectify anything - most people who view porn don't objectify women. They/We do so momentarily, yes, but the truth is the majority of people - men and women - objectify in a sexual way at one point or another. It's called being horny, and I've got news for ya: we were born that way. We didn't go down to K-mart and purchase generic hormones, God gave us a free lifetime supply at birth. Deal with it, sistah!

[Toni_no12002]

ive spoken to men who say because they have watched porn they see women as sexual objects.When women should be seen as people as well.

[amerikajin]

ive spoken to men who say because they have watched porn they see women as sexual objects.When women should be seen as people as well.

 

Some men can't control their sexual impulses and, indeed, some men do objectify women. Some men can't control their alcohol, either - that doesn't make alcohol inherently evil.

 

A lot of men objectify women in the short term when they look at porn. Indeed, as they typically don't know the person, it is almost always an act of objectified fantasy. I don't necessarily see the problem in that because the urge to release one's sexuality is completely natural. Like I said, we didn't make a conscious decision to be horny, that was already taken care of at birth.

[rainfall]

Let me pose a hypothetical:

 

Let's say you walk in on your man spanking it to a porn one day....you'd automatically break up with him just like that?

 

Let's say you find a new guy and then eventually get married and you end up dealing with the same thing ten years into a marriage...you'd get a divorce?

 

I'm assuming in both cases there's no evidence which would indicate a possible relationship with someone, just a casual fantasy from afar. If the woman in question were someone you knew or someone he knew (i.e. someone within reach) I could definitely see that being a problem. But if you walk in on him spanking it to a picture of Mariah Carey or J-Lo or Paris Hilton...you'd just walk?

 

Good luck. You can find someone who fits within the framework of your ideal, but there's a good chance that whoever you're with is going to let you down. I'm not saying "just roll over and accept it" but I think the hard line you're taking is extreme.

 

 

Well if I walked in on my man doing that I would try to figure out what made him need it. Whether he was unhappy with our sex life or thought I was slacking on my looks. If it was one of those two I would work to change it so he would not need porn.

 

 

I really don't think that men who have a fantasy limit it to women who they do not know in real life. They just try to hide it more when it is about a person who is in reach.

[Rhyla]

Some men can't control their sexual impulses and, indeed, some men do objectify women. Some men can't control their alcohol, either - that doesn't make alcohol inherently evil.

 

A lot of men objectify women in the short term when they look at porn. Indeed, as they typically don't know the person, it is almost always an act of objectified fantasy. I don't necessarily see the problem in that because the urge to release one's sexuality is completely natural. Like I said, we didn't make a conscious decision to be horny, that was already taken care of at birth.

 

Yes, the urge to release one's sexuality is natural. However, porn and such is not. It is a man-made phenomenon, not one that we EVOLVED to need, nor were you born with a need for porn either. You did not evolve or be born with a need to objectify women either (to be attracted to, sure - but that's different.) You can be horny, and take care of it without porn. I don't see why the automatic defense and assumption that a problem with porn = a problem with masterbation. It doesn't the two are two completely seperate entities.

[amerikajin]

Yes, the urge to release one's sexuality is natural. However, porn and such is not. It is a man-made phenomenon, not one that we EVOLVED to need, nor were you born with a need for porn either. You did not evolve or be born with a need to objectify women either (to be attracted to, sure - but that's different.) You can be horny, and take care of it without porn. I don't see why the automatic defense and assumption that a problem with porn = a problem with masterbation. It doesn't the two are two completely seperate entities.

 

Well, obviously, horniness predates porn distribution technology.

 

You do realize he could well be - and in all likelihood is - masturbating about someone else from time to time, right? It's just knowing that he's masturbating to someone else's likeness that bothers you, a truth we'd rather not know....is that it?

[Karma24]

for the same reason women keep buying new shoes even though they already have 75 pairs...they like it.

 

What a nice sterotypical response!

[hunnybuns]

look if a man is into porn. There is nothing wrong with it. I have a man that is obsessed with the porn channels on TV. But guess what so am I. Set down and watch it with him that way he will know you are comfortable with it and wont hide it. I was the say way. I didn't like it nor wanted anything to do with it. Now I cant stay away from it. You just might like it. Trust me it helps with the sex....gives them ideas. You reap the benefits.