choices, confusion. unknown,questions, questioning

[basscatcher]

So many thoughts.

Choices to make.

Considerations to think about.

The discomfort of the unknown.

 

I have been on a roller coaster for so many months. I finally crashed and ended up calling a councelor (which is going well) and I've been on St. Johns Wort for a few weeks already and my nerves are much calmer.

 

I do have some internal delimas going on which I havent really been able to resolved fully and have been ignoring making any real decision about and I've been going in the direction I've been going in with apprehension.

 

Here's the situation. Please be opened minded if you are going to give me your opinions. Thanks..

 

Charlie has left me several messages admitting he was a jerk to me and treated me like crap. He admitted he was a dumb a$$ and he didn't give my friends, my son or myself a real chance to know him.

A few times he sounded like he was about to break down crying.

He is pouring out his heart to me. He is admitting he was wrong and unfair. He is apoligizing over and over in all of his messages.

He is repeating he misses me and is asking to prove himself.

He is really humbling himself.

He is almost begging for a second chance to prove that he is over 'Kim' and that he was a fool to not be real with me when he had me.

He said evreything I asked for in the relationship he naturally does those things but his previous relationship had messed him up and he was afraid to give the affection and communication to me because when he gave it to Kim and to his Xwife they abused it, took advantage of it and hurt him.. He didnt' want to be used and hurt again so he put up a wall.

 

Then theres TCK.. This man and I have this incredible attraction and strange connection. I hardly ever get to see him or spend time with him. He calls me occassionaly (every 2-3 weeks) and I can't call him. I can't even surprise him by just showing up at his place. .. He is very distant and aloof.. He has opened up and expressed himself more to me about his life, personal life, and he has shared with me some very possitve thoughts he has about me.

He is highly sexually attracted to me and the sexual energy is off the charts.

He's said many times he isn't interested in working on a relationship or the quality of a relationship. He sends me mixed signals all the time. Once moment he is into me and the next he pushes me away. He confuses me.. In the last 2 months he has reached out and when I tried to push him away, even as a friend, he didn't want me too. He asked why and stated cant we work something out..

 

I'm so baffeled.. I miss Charlie and his attention. I adore TCK and want to be closer to him but he wont allow it.

 

I'm just sitting on myself and not doing anything right now. It's very uncomfortable.

[Moose]

I didn't really see a question in there pada.....but I'll tell you my thoughts.

 

Forget about TCK.....apparently he's either married, or is in another relationship.

 

Give Charlie another chance......

[SoCalCatman72]

Well, it sounds like TCK has some issues, or is only interested in a physical relationship, and Charlie is a jerk.

 

If you have to choose between the two, I'd say Charlie is the better bet, but why not look around some more? There have to be some nice guys out there?

 

After my little ordeal, I've started looking around me more, and I've realized that I've been missing out because my focus has been to narrow.

 

Just my thoughts, I truly hope things work out well.

 

That St. John's Wort is great stuff, huh?

[basscatcher]

Forget about TCK.....apparently he's either married, or is in another relationship.

No he's not married. Not a man like him.. He is one of those really alpha male types who lives very blue collar and isn't materialistic. He is your typical burbing, farting, sometimes verbally rude men. Yet he is charming, sweet, caring, compassionate, helpful, very intelligent type of man. He is a mixed bag. He always says he won't ever get married. He said he never wants children to be a stepfather to anyones kid. He said he isn't the father type material yet I've seen him with kids and he's great with little ones... They love him.

Yes he has issues..

We've known each other for about 1.5 years..

 

{quote}Give Charlie another chance......

 

I'm so upset and hurt because of what I chose to put up with (or I should say lack-there-of) for a total of 9 months I'm really scared to give him a 2nd chance..

I wonder if he is saying all this to get me back or if he is sincere. Last week he contacted me and he said some things that messed me up in the head for a little bit. He gave me an ultimatum that if he and I were to get back together; TCK would have to be completely out of my life... TOTALLY... I attempted to break off my friendship & then-some with TCK and thats when TCK asked me why we could't remain friends. Why did we have to totally disconnect. He liked having me in his life. He liked the way things were. He said all kinds of nice things to me and I weakened.

 

So I took a few days to think and realized it wasn't right of Charlie to give me an ultimatum like that. We arent married and I am free to chose what I want. He had no right to push my hand into making a decision I wasn't ready for. I didn't want to let go of TCK in my life. He has always been there for me when I'm falling apart. He's always been there when my car broke down (like this weekend!!). He has helped me mentally and emotionally grow as a person. He has helped me grow up by confronting me with my faults. He's been an amazing friend to me.

My question is 'will he ever change his mind about not wanting to have a woman closer in his life with possible marriage?'

Could he change his mind? He's been single for 10 years and swore he would never marry or have children. He is very work focused and I'm a distraction to him. He admitted so.. Yet he doesn't want me to back off or end what is between us.

I'm unsettled because I hate having that 'missing' feeling. I hate it with a passion. He's 32 miles away and I hardly ever see him.. I hate missing him.

I don't call him either. He gets annoyed because he typically is very very busy and if I call it breaks his work concentration and disturbs him. I've always waited around for him to call me which is maybe 1x every 2-3 weeks. Our conversations can go on for hours and hours...

 

I can't dismiss them both and be open to someone new. Unless or until I can remove both of these guys out of my mind and heart I can't move forward with anyone and be fair to the new guy or myself.

My mind and emotions are occupied with these two men.

 

When I thought Charlie was gone because of his own words that he couldn't be with me if I've been with someone else and that if TCK is still in my life he couldn't take me back I thought he was gone. I thought for sure he would back off and disappear because I won't push TCK out of my life. I don't want too.Thinking this I sat back for awhile and reeled myself in from all the drama with Charlie and found a bit of peace inside of myself..

 

TCK and I had a really nice talk one night and he asked me to come over so I spent time with him.(which I had done very previoiusly) It was wonderful to spend that time with him. I thought maybe TCK and I would move forward since we weren't able to to it last summer (we were previoiusly involved for a few months last year). He didn't grow with me in the relationship, he wanted what was between us to stay the same. I wanted to build more and thats when he backed off last summer until the distance hurt me so much I had to disconnect from him about 2 months later I met Charlie.

 

After Charlie and I met TCK and I didn't speak or contact one another for almost 5 months. TCK caught wind there was something wrong in my life (he knew I was dating Charlie) and he called me in March because he knew I was a wreck.

 

TCK called me in March then he called in April. Then in June he called a few times and he needed some help with his homestead so I offered to help him and I spent 2 weekends at his place helping him (I didn't spend the night-although he wanted me too.) In July I spent the night with him a few times. All the feelings from last summer resurfaced easily. He opened up more to me and shared more about his life with me. (He is a very very very private man so this was huge HUGE.)

 

I broke up with Charlie back in April but still casually dated him till the first part of June. As the months went by since April I seen less and less of Charlie. Then the weekend after I spend an amazing night with TCK and felt closer then ever to him. Charlie called me asking for a second chance and I told him I was closer to TCK. He pressured me until I told him that TCK and I spent the night together and thats when Charlie went bananas and said he could never be with me again. Then later he called and said he would forgive me and give me a second chance if I got TCK out of my life for good. To which I became a bit confused and didn't know what to do. (see my other LS posts about this). After much thought I got angry and upset that Charlie would pose such an ultimatum to me. (back me into a corner is how I felt). I chose not to removed TCK out of my life. I thought for sure Chalrie would back off and disappear but now he is here begging me for a second chance. Admitting all his wrong doings and unfairness to me.. He is trying to convince me.

 

He was even using his financial standing to bait me back in just to get me to give him a chance to prove himself to me. He offered to buy me a different car, told me I could quit my job if I wanted and that he could even set me up on a trust fund if he should die and I would be set for life. I told him to shut up... I told him he couldn't buy me back.. I told him if he wanted to connect with me then it had to be with matters of the heart not the pocketbook.. He is really desperate which is kinda freaky..

 

He is suffering from depression also. He went out and bought SJW also and has been on it for about a week. He's taking 6 capsules a day. I'm only taking 3. He said he doesn't know how to deal with this. He said he had a hard time with his previous break up with his gf before me and now he lost me because of his stupidity in treating me poorly because of his experiences with her.

 

Its a mess. The part that makes it so hard is I care about both of them...

[blind_otter]

IME it is only when you're uncomfortable that you really do a lot of emotional growth.

 

Personally I think there are a lot of other, better men in the world besides these two guys who act like emotional teenagers. JMO, though, take it with a grain of salt.

 

I think that narrowing your choices down to them is pretty self limiting.

[alphamale]

here we go again...

 

He is really humbling himself.

No...he is putting on an act.

 

Then theres TCK.. This man and I have this incredible attraction and strange connection. I hardly ever get to see him or spend time with him. He calls me occassionaly (every 2-3 weeks) and I can't call him.

you're attraction is strong because he is unavailable. Soon as he becomes available you'll lose all interest.

 

I'm just sitting on myself and not doing anything right now. It's very uncomfortable.

try lying down on the bed, it may help

[basscatcher]

IME it is only when you're uncomfortable that you really do a lot of emotional growth.

 

Personally I think there are a lot of other, better men in the world besides these two guys who act like emotional teenagers. JMO, though, take it with a grain of salt.

 

I think that narrowing your choices down to them is pretty self limiting.

 

I do agree.. I have no arguement with your opinion.

The arguement is with myself.

How am I suppose to move forward when I care about these two clowns.

I attmepted to move forward from TCK last fall before I met Charlie.

Then when TCK steps back in the forefront it wasn't hard to open my arms to him because the old feelings were still there deep down and resurfaced so easily without hesitation.

Charlie is still kinda recent. He is fighting for me everyway he can think of.

 

I can't move on unless I can let go of my feelings for these two.. Its not fair for me to physically walk away from these two clowns when my feelings are still attached to them and pull another man into this mess.

 

NO NO NO.. I know no one is telling me to do this but it needed to be said..

 

I guess I never fully got over TCK.. I just stuffed down my feelings into the black abyss and started to pile Charlie on top of them. so here I feel like I'm in a a triangle and I'm not committed to either of them and neither want to let go of me either. TCK would if I pressed it. He believes in allowing a person the freedom to make their own choices and live with the consequences.. But he will question my motives and want me to answer. Charlie is fighting for me. No questions asked, his focus is to get me back.

[EnigmaXOXO]

Wow. You're a deep thinker Pada!

 

For me, I find it easier to break it down into smaller bits and try to process my thoughts one at a time.

 

If it were me, I might start here:

 

 

can't move on unless I can let go of my feelings for these two.. Its not fair for me to physically walk away from these two clowns when my feelings are still attached to them

 

 

so here I feel like I'm in a a triangle and I'm not committed to either of them and neither want to let go of me either.

 

I might be asking myself, if in a similar situation, which of us three were really having the most difficult time "letting go."

 

But then I'd realize that no one really has the power to hang onto me unless I were somehow permitting it. And that the power to "let go" was really mine, and mine alone, all along.

 

So then I'd be asking myself (in third person as we closet mental patients often do); "Self; why am I hanging on to two clowns that are making me so darn miserable that I have to hire a professional third party just to get me through the day ????" :confused:

[superconductor]

Oh for cryin out loud.

 

How much time and energy have you wasted, Pada, on this incessant need to replay things from your past?

 

You've been posting about this Charlie dude for months and months and months now, and you always come to the same conclusion: you and he just aren't compatible.

 

How many times do you have to do this to yourself? Gawd sakes, woman, move along already.

[basscatcher]

Gawd sakes, woman, move along already.

 

You made me giggle. Thanks.. I wonder... How...

 

Men can just make up their minds and disconnect so easily.. You are developed to do that. Your work minded...

 

Typically, its not that easy for women. We tend to get emotionally attached and have a difficult time letting go. Even when we make up our minds to let go we emotionally have a hard time.

 

I'm mostly sitting back and seeing what plays out.

 

TCK is work absorbed so he isn't struggling as much to my knowledge.

 

Charlie on the other hand is panicing, flipping out, feeling desperate and reaching out.

 

One day at a time is what I'm doing. Yes, I am a deep thinker. I analyze everything that I know or suspect. I made a very bad choice when I was younger in a similiar situation and I don't want to make a choice this time in haste. If I chose wrong then I know at least I didnt do it in haste but thought it through. I need more answers to questions I have in my head. I'm not ready to fully let go because both have good qualities and I understand people do stupid stuff when they do things in haste and that is just what Charlie did by allowing himself to meet me and carry on with me when he wasn't ready. His actions I believe would be pretty typical of someone who just came out of a relationship didn't want to end... The spin is he got involved with me before he was really ready.. I understand this.. I must take it into account that his actions are fairly normal minus the part with me. Thats the crap with rebound relationships.. Right? So Charlie might just be genuine now and be what I wanted and needed naturally.

 

Can I forgive the past and let it go to give him a 2nd chance?

 

Does TCK want to invest more into me and work on building with me?

 

Can I and do I have the strength to give up both and move on with no strings still attached to either one?

 

These are my main questions I need to resolve in myself.

[basscatcher]

Here's a shocker..

 

I seen my councelor last night. After much talk about the events of the past week and a half since my last appointment. My life has done 3 180* turns.

 

First Good news... My restraining order/harassment order against my XH was signed by the judge... Yippeeee. My OFP expired Aug, 11 and that maniac has been tripping worse then ever. My son will be 17 yrs old next week and he asked the advocate to be put on my order. He no longer wants to deal with his father at all anymore either... Smart KID....

 

Anyway, back to my therapist.. After much talk she told me its a long weekend and for me to find a break away from the city into a place that brings peace and tranquillity to me. The only place that has ever given me that kind of peace is near water, in the country, away from city's, most people, businesses, etc etc..

She and I discussed Charlie and his persistance and TCKs aloofness.

She told me I needed to do what is good for me. That I needed to think in the moment of what I needed at each moment withot thinking about everyone else..

"Whats good for Pada?'

"What does Pada want for herself?"

"What feeds my soul?"

"What do I want in the moment?"

 

So I told her I want to go away this weekend away from the city. I want to sit on a dock and look out over a lake, smell the freshness of the air, hear the crickets sing and the loons call out. I want to smell the fishy scent of the water.

I told her I DO want to spend some time with Charlie to see how he is. Its been 4 months since I broke off our exclusivity. He has since given me some space that I requested, he has done stupid crap out of desperation (I'm guilty of doing this also in the past.!!) and it can be forgivable.

I shared with the therapist that Charlie has been wanting to spend time with me and I was thinking MAYBE asking him if he would take me up to his cabin for the weekend, but he would have to give me space when I need it and we could share some time together.

 

The therapist siad that would be an excellant idea.. She said it would give me an opportunity to spend time with Charlie and feel him out. It would give me time away from my life and into a realm that brings me so much peace and relaxation. A country lake..... Ahhh bliss.

She did not feel Charlie would be any kind of threat to me because he is a good guy. He is a man who made mistakes and he seems to realize it now and wants to prove to me that he is different then what he portrayed when we were together. He just wants to prove himself.

 

The therapist said she didn't know if TCK would change his beliefs and life to be with me. He is already backing off. If my car wouldn't have broke down I probably wouldn't have seen him till 'God knows when!." It had already been 4 weeks since I seen him last and 2 weeks since he called me.

The therapist said to take TCKs words seriously that if he says he doesn't want a serious relatioship, he doesn't want to be married, he doesn't want a woman living in his house or her leaving her trinkets in his home then to believe it... She said he is a good man to me as a friend and we have very strong attraction and chemestry but she is doubting whether he will change enough to invite me into his life more then what it is.. I can't be like this with him. Its been bothering me lately.

 

I wondered if he would do what he did last summer which was after a few months of contact and seeing me a few times a month he went aloof.

 

Its like a game--like children and their toys---

children will beg and beg and beg for a toy until you buy it for them. They play with it for awhile then get bored with it and tend to forget it exhists until another kid comes along and likes it and starts to play with it, The child then becomes interested in the toy because another kid wants it..

 

I am seeing this happen again.. He has played with me for a 1-2 months now he is getting bored or something and has gone aloof...

 

Charlie has continued to persue me, he NEVER gave up.. He did back off when I asked him too but he never gave up on trying to convince me to give him a second chance. He said his past his over. He asked me to forgive him. He asked me to allow him to prove to me that he is the kind of man that I wanted and needed but he had his head up his butt and was dealing with his past before me.. He has sincerely apoligized to me over and over. He is ready to go make amends with my friends and family so I can get their support and he can regain his approval from them..

 

The councelor said I should think about it. She said I should asked him if he would take me to his cabin to get away for the weekend. Just him and I. She knows I still care about him. I have questions and concerns. The only way I will know the answers is to spend time with him. Better for me to investigate and find out then to not and always be wondering...

 

So with all this I called Charlie and he said we will see. He said for me to see if I can make arrangements for my son and get my friends off my back so I can leave town peacefully. He will see if he can clear his schedule from Friday afternoon to Sunday.. He can work Monday and I can settle back into life before heading back to work on Tues--holiday weekend..

 

So now we will see what happens..

 

The councelor is right.. What will make me happy and don't be worried about what other people think or whether I'm being selfish or not.. I'm a selfish person on the inside but I am always sacrificing myself for others. She said its time to take and utilize some of those internal desires for me and not others... It's time for me..

 

I have no support system behind me.. None of my friends are supportive of giving Charlie a second chance, no one on LS is supportive of me giving Charlie a second chance..

My friends have told me if I do they will accept my choice but Charlie has to make amends with them also because they want to see proof that he is really being himself now and the person I met was not the real him. He was on guard, cold, distant, and unfair because of his own issues before I came into his life.

 

So, I am going to see if I can clear the deck and if Charlie and I can get away... I need to sit on the dock in a dew covered evening, silence all around, I need to lay on my back and look up at the stars as the crickets sing in the nite.. Its suppose to rain this weekend and that will be fine also. Sitting in the rain is nice.. I can sit on the deck of the cabin under the eve and enjoy the rain pouring on the lake..

 

Charlie is fully aware not to expect anything. He knows I'm burnt out and so messed up.. He knows I need to exscape my daily life and get a break.. He said he loves me enough to allow that.. He said he will be here for me and help me anyway he can.

 

TCK isn't like that. He doesn't want to be that deep with me.. He helps me when my car breaks down, he is there for me when I'm going stir crazy emotionally and I'm about to have a break down from loneliness.. Other then that he isn't here for me. I can't open up and talk to him about my problems.. He doesn't even know that my xh has been stalking and harrassing me. Charlie knows and he has always been supportive and concerned..

 

TCK is a good man justas Charlie is a good man.. Difference is Charlie makes time and takes time for me and is interested in all of me. TCK doesn't..

 

I pray we do go to his cabin.. I pray I come back with a clearer head, refreshed, renewed, well rested, and energized..

I'm so burnt out..

[hotgurl]

pada,

I like you but i just can't get through your posts sometimes Ok like 80% of the time.

 

I think you should go NC with both men cut your losses and move on. TCK is not up for a LTR but is preventing you from finding someone who is. Charile is emtionally crippled and can't be what you want.

 

again I have to agree with people that you like these men because they are unavailable.

[a4a]

ok from the flipside. (shooting straight with ya, and it is gonna hurt)

 

Charlie has put up with you too.

 

You are not exactly a cake walk when it comes to relationships.

 

The mystery man is strokin you and playing with you. You are a toy to him. He knows how to feed you just enough to keep you hungry and wanting more.

He has you all figured out.

 

I think you need to look at reality a bit and drop the dew covered dock and loon crap.

 

Do you like Charlies company most of the time? Does he treat you in a respectful manner? Does he put up with your dewy docks and loons neediness?

 

Give him a chance and do so in a realistic manner. I mean at least the guy is putting effort into it. Are you waiting for him to get on a white horse and fight the evil empire for you or what?

 

Make a list of his good points and his bad points and weigh them in a realistic manner.... not the dewy docks and loons way.

 

drunk= negative list..... deal breaker

woman beater.......deal breaker

man whore ....... deal breaker

 

wanting things like public affection is something that can be attained if he is willing to.

 

Tell the man what you expect of him in his language (without the loons and dewy docks)...... short and sweet..... to the point. My bet is no woman has ever made her needs clear to him in a way that HE UNDERSTANDS.

[alphamale]

Tell the man what you expect of him in his language (without the loons and dewy docks)...... short and sweet..... to the point. My bet is no woman has ever made her needs clear to him in a way that HE UNDERSTANDS.

most women don't even know what their own needs are so how are they gonna communicate them?

[superconductor]

Padameckla, you've been in "analysis paralysis" over this dude for months and months now.

 

You already know, beyond any doubt, that this Charlie fellow is not for you. You've made that abundantly clear in the dozens of posts about him.

 

Fercrissakes woman, stop thinking. Start doing.

[a4a]

most women don't even know what their own needs are so how are they gonna communicate them?

 

 

Well I know what I want and I certainly could not be more loud, blunt, and clear!

 

Prime example to my own H "take your pants off and get into the bedroom, we are gonna do the hot monkey sex right now" :lmao:

[alphamale]

Prime example to my own H "take your pants off and get into the bedroom, we are gonna do the hot monkey sex right now" :lmao:

so does he make you put a bag over your head?

[blind_otter]

Padameckla, you've been in "analysis paralysis" over this dude for months and months now.

 

You already know, beyond any doubt, that this Charlie fellow is not for you. You've made that abundantly clear in the dozens of posts about him.

 

Fercrissakes woman, stop thinking. Start doing.

 

What is the saying? Fortune favors the bold? Carpe diem?

[a4a]

so does he make you put a bag over your head?

 

no but he makes me roll in flour....... :lmao:

[superconductor]

Carpe diem?

Sieze the fish?

[alphamale]

Sieze the fish?

No, it means God's Catfish...its a heavenly dish they make down in New Orleans

[blind_otter]

Sieze the fish?

 

I never did take latin. I bumbled my way through italy though.

[superconductor]

No, it means God's Catfish...its a heavenly dish they make down in New Orleans

Wouldn't that be Carpe Dominus?

[blind_otter]

/thread hyjack.

[basscatcher]

The loons and dewy docks are for ME.. I am a country girl and love being near the water and forests...

 

I need a vacation so-to-speak... I need to get away from the damn computer, I need to get away from my gfs, I need to get away from the big city, I need to get away from the clubs, I need to get out of my cramped little clostrophic apartment.. I need to get away from the smell and sounds of exhaust and sirens flying past my apt bldg 24/7... I need to escape away from the demands everyone has of me..... I'm ready to pop...

 

I have never had problems with headaches in my life and for the past 2 weeks my head has been throbbing off my shoulders like never never never before.. Even the Chiropractor couldn't help me, Advil isn't helping, sleep isnt helping... I need to run away and escape..

 

I know Charlie will give me my space... I know he will...

I am attempting to USE him for his cabin---YES... I told him I wanted to use him for his cabin on the lake to get away and requested he give me space so I can be by myself and think, clear my head and relax.

He said he would....