Bs And Ow's

[Sami_D]

She is hurting and scared.

 

We have all been there.

 

WA

 

No, I'm NOT hurting OR scared!

 

What is happening here?

[Sami_D]

I agree with RC. If I'm out of bounds here, tell me. But Sami, you helped me SO much when I was in that dark place in getting over the xMM. When I started reading your posts on this thread, I became worried. This isn't like you AT ALL! I'm worried you're going through something terrible and you seem to be taking it out here on WA.

 

Are you okay????

 

Yes, I am okay.

 

Now... in case I upset anyone else... I am asking... very very nicely... if you think I've upset anyone... could you post the url to the place I did... and tell me how... and I'll say in more detail what I was meaning?

[movinon05]

Sami,

 

In this thread, you have said “I call it as I see it. I expect every other person posting to do the same”. Yet when they do and you do not like what you are hearing, you run away.

 

You say: “Anyone finds something problematic with my MM... I am very willing to look at it. I am just as hard on (MM) and myself as I am on everyone.” I have yet to see in all this time you be hard on your MM. You praise him to the roof and you are coddled for his “honesty”, when in fact you will not even admit that there is a remote possibility that he is lying to you ever.

 

Whether he gets something from his wife or not, he can still be a cake eater. He will look to you to get something from you that he does not get from his wife, and that does not just have to be sex either! It is still an affair of the heart if nothing else.

 

You say: And if you think I'm going to settle for anything that isn't Good now.. then you have underestimated me. I will, and I am, making the point to him that I need it to be enough now. I will not live for the future. I need it to be good enough... right now.

 

If that is not possible, then it will not be enough. And this affair will not continue. Do you really think that someone who has done 4 months of NC would just settle? Have you managed as much?

 

So now it is good enough for now. How many times have you told us when we wanted to falter that the momentary bliss will not be worth the pain? Yet you seem to think it is okay for you! Why can’t you see that we are only telling you what you told us?

 

You say: I have no idea what I'm doing. I'm just trying. I have not caved. But... love is love.

And yes, I am well aware of ALL my faults. And yes, I do idolise him. But please bear with me! I don't know everything. I don't know anything. I'm just a person. And I'm trying my best.

 

Well you should not fault us for trying to do our best with what we know and have learned to make every effort to try to help you. But you do not see it as help. You see it as an attack.

 

You say: Hmm.... well, first of all, I'd deny that I've tried, anywhere this thread... or indeed, anywhere at all, to say that my MM was different than every other MM. I have stated what has occurred between us. I don't think that I've ever said 'so he's different from anyone'... I think that is in the minds of the reader.

 

Out of respect for you, I will not refer to specifics here, but yes, you have stated very well what you believe is different about him, not necessarily here, but at other times.

 

Yes, you do have a brain and you can rationalize (to quote you), but then you counter your own words when you say you might be misguided.

 

With regard to what you have discussed with MM since Friday, some of us only know what you have told us at LH. However, I will tell you my opinion, and that is that I feel you have justified your situation and you are in no better place than you were before. I know you won't agree with me. So be it. I will not take you down for that. I will not fault you. The whole problem is that you do not seem to want to hear anything other than coddling!

 

Without referring to specific posts, yes you did attack WA. You were sarcastic and critical, and I really do not think she deserved that AT ALL! She knows where she needs to get and she has been trying like hell to get there under very trying circumstances.

 

And from myself, I will tell you again as I have told you before, children learn to adapt when they are loved. PERIOD!! Life is not always easy and life is not always hard. You know my kids went through the worst of it. I would not want anyone to go through what they did, but it does not have to be that way. And yet they are doing great today. There are plenty of children who are grown now - INCLUDING ME - who wished their parents had divorced much earlier than they did because they could not stand living under those bad circumstances. I can attest to it. I lived it! It teaches them nothing about love!

 

Maybe all I am trying to say, Sami, is I just wish you wouldn't fault others or get defensive if they question you or what you are doing. You have done the same with us and no one has ever not taken your advice or concern or support without a big thank you! Maybe you could do the same. Because yes, we do care, whether you want us to or not.

[Walking away]

Always the classy one, movinon.

 

Always the classy one.

[lovernotafighter]

LNF... I so don't agree with so much you have put here.

 

Your MM is one of the ones that i've been criticised here on this thread for 'dissing'... and you know ... you have looked into this and you KNOW that he is everything you said he was... I know you love him. I have been there too, loving an N (in my case)... but you also know that nothing good will come of it, long-term... don't you..?

 

And of course you want to help him! He is your best friend, and you love to spend time together.. but...? What of the future..?

 

And... LNF... thanks

 

yep you and many others have critiqued my MM and I see him a narcissist but my point was about my perception and the kind of friend I want to be to him..not the other way around..I just believe you want to be there for your MM and I don't see anything wrong with being a good friend to any one.

 

so that being said as well I don't think anyone was trying to chastise you,I just think they care.

 

sometimes when I was being critiqued I did feel a bit insulted and put under the microscope but I think if no one cared they wouldn't give me their sage advice even if it's not what I want to hear...because let's face it our situation can go on for a long time with out resolve if we except it..I have allot and it's part of my pain because 'I know better'.

 

the future is what I make..if MM doesn't want to be a part of that when the time comes for him to sh*t or get off the pot, it will be his regret I believe. but his choice and I'll have to move on.

 

but after my friend died I have a new view on the future sami..it's good to have goals but love is now and we don't know how long it will last or deep it can be, like the sun, it doesn't shine everyday but we can enjoy it when it does, so that's what I am gonna do with all of the love and people in my life..enjoy them for who they are,in the present, they are a gift and I know it and appreciate it.

 

I can't say nothing long term hasn't come from my relationship with him, and that's the irony..I have grown so much through this..I know what I want,my needs. I know I can feel again and that is the greatest long term gift my MM could have gave me...so even if it's not him I will at least be moving on to something better...he's shaken me from my stagnation, and that's pretty damn good in my world.

 

enjoy life sami..it's yours..be happy. there is lessons to be learned, experiences to have, and the best of the stuff life is to have in your heart and soul.

 

BTW..thanks to you to Sami, you are great and a great friend, and we all care, just worry, that's our job right?

[UnknowingOW]

Sami,

 

LNF said it simply and beautifully.

 

You are a great; friend, sage, woman, all of the above.

 

And what do friends do when their friends are in trouble?

 

They circle the waggons and get their friend through the rough spots...that's what we were trying to do.

 

We do love you...don't forget that.

[Sami_D]

Sami,

 

In this thread, you have said “I call it as I see it. I expect every other person posting to do the same”. Yet when they do and you do not like what you are hearing, you run away.

 

You say: “Anyone finds something problematic with my MM... I am very willing to look at it. I am just as hard on (MM) and myself as I am on everyone.” I have yet to see in all this time you be hard on your MM. You praise him to the roof and you are coddled for his “honesty”, when in fact you will not even admit that there is a remote possibility that he is lying to you ever.

 

Whether he gets something from his wife or not, he can still be a cake eater. He will look to you to get something from you that he does not get from his wife, and that does not just have to be sex either! It is still an affair of the heart if nothing else.

 

You say: And if you think I'm going to settle for anything that isn't Good now.. then you have underestimated me. I will, and I am, making the point to him that I need it to be enough now. I will not live for the future. I need it to be good enough... right now.

 

If that is not possible, then it will not be enough. And this affair will not continue. Do you really think that someone who has done 4 months of NC would just settle? Have you managed as much?

 

So now it is good enough for now. How many times have you told us when we wanted to falter that the momentary bliss will not be worth the pain? Yet you seem to think it is okay for you! Why can’t you see that we are only telling you what you told us?

 

You say: I have no idea what I'm doing. I'm just trying. I have not caved. But... love is love.

And yes, I am well aware of ALL my faults. And yes, I do idolise him. But please bear with me! I don't know everything. I don't know anything. I'm just a person. And I'm trying my best.

 

Well you should not fault us for trying to do our best with what we know and have learned to make every effort to try to help you. But you do not see it as help. You see it as an attack.

 

You say: Hmm.... well, first of all, I'd deny that I've tried, anywhere this thread... or indeed, anywhere at all, to say that my MM was different than every other MM. I have stated what has occurred between us. I don't think that I've ever said 'so he's different from anyone'... I think that is in the minds of the reader.

 

Out of respect for you, I will not refer to specifics here, but yes, you have stated very well what you believe is different about him, not necessarily here, but at other times.

 

Yes, you do have a brain and you can rationalize (to quote you), but then you counter your own words when you say you might be misguided.

 

With regard to what you have discussed with MM since Friday, some of us only know what you have told us at LH. However, I will tell you my opinion, and that is that I feel you have justified your situation and you are in no better place than you were before. I know you won't agree with me. So be it. I will not take you down for that. I will not fault you. The whole problem is that you do not seem to want to hear anything other than coddling!

 

Without referring to specific posts, yes you did attack WA. You were sarcastic and critical, and I really do not think she deserved that AT ALL! She knows where she needs to get and she has been trying like hell to get there under very trying circumstances.

 

And from myself, I will tell you again as I have told you before, children learn to adapt when they are loved. PERIOD!! Life is not always easy and life is not always hard. You know my kids went through the worst of it. I would not want anyone to go through what they did, but it does not have to be that way. And yet they are doing great today. There are plenty of children who are grown now - INCLUDING ME - who wished their parents had divorced much earlier than they did because they could not stand living under those bad circumstances. I can attest to it. I lived it! It teaches them nothing about love!

 

Maybe all I am trying to say, Sami, is I just wish you wouldn't fault others or get defensive if they question you or what you are doing. You have done the same with us and no one has ever not taken your advice or concern or support without a big thank you! Maybe you could do the same. Because yes, we do care, whether you want us to or not.

 

Thanks

 

OK.

 

1) I'm human, I have plenty of failings. If people have put me on a pedestal as some kind of inspiration to all OW, well it was only going to be a matter of time before I came toppling down. And yes, I do get defensive. And I am pig-headed. And self-righteous, and often blind to what is going on in my own mind and my own life. And sometimes I am incredibly snotty. And yay... I'm just me. (but I am truly sorry for ...

 

2) ... I'm sorry for attacking WA. I know what I'm like, and I know how I come across. I wasn't meaning to attack her... in actual fact, wine was involved and I couldn't even remember her story, so it wasn't at all personal! (don't know if that is better or worse, WA).

 

3) Yes, actually, in all honesty, I do think he's different to a lot of MM. I don't mean that he is different in that he's not, somehow, having an affair. Of course he is! He is a MM having an affair. So..? I don't think he's lying. And yes, I have asked myself about it over and over, and I still don't think he's lying to me. What would he be lying about? And why? He's great. He's more than great, he's amazing. I put HIM on a pedestal. I know I do. But I'm not stupid. I know he's human, and I know what he's doing.

 

4) It's his marriage. They are his children. I cannot tell him what is 'best' for them, no matter what my personal opinion is on how 'children adapt'. I'd be talking out of my A, because I don't have any, all I know is what I've been told.

 

5) I may be making a big mistake. I have no idea. The fact that I say that, and I am 'testing the water' at the moment regarding whether or not we continue with our relationship, I think shows that I'm not disregarding anything! I KNOW. I could be making a mistake.

 

6) But... I'm not hurting. I'm not (very) frightened at the moment. But I am very concerned not to go back to how it was.

 

7) I cannot say, at the moment, whether or not I'm in a better position than I was in April. We don't know what we're going to do. One thing that has changed is that he is sure that he is not leaving in the near future, and that is something that I accept. Another thing that has changed is that I have found out quite a few things about myself, in terms of my strength, my ability to walk away if this isn't going to 'work', and so on.

 

8) The idea of 'momentary bliss' is a good point. I told my boyfriend last night... if this is going to work, it has to be Good Now. I cannot put my life on hold hoping for something to get better 'one day'. Because one day never comes. Does that mean I'm settling for momentary bliss? Quite possibly. But... don't we only have now? Who knows what happens tomorrow..? Maybe we need to let go of our hopes and expectations of a situation and ask... is this doing me ANY good right here and now? What other considerations are there?

 

9) My boyfriend rang this morning. We had a long chat about this and that and I told him I'd got into a rukus on one of the forums and he said, well if you really want to blow their preconceptions out of the window, tell them what our ultimate aim is. And I said... what????? And he said yeah, why not... tell them that we want a total D/s or M/s relationship in which you are the slave, and give up all your 'rights' to your Master. That will really put the cat amongst the pigeons.

 

So ... there it is.

 

I'm sure there are lots of other things I should say, but I'll leave it at that.

[sylviaguardian]

Sorry if I am a bit late here, as thread seems to have turned into something else but I wanted to add some more.First off, No I didn't, I take on board your points, some of which I've never considered before:

 

SG

 

 

I might actually say that the OW pain maybe greater b/c people will tell her to get over it as she was a volunteer to the situation, unlike the BW. The OW now has her reputation sullied, her motives challenged, you name it. But mostly, the OW has to suffer mostly alone. The OW will likely get NO support through her pain, but the BW will.

 

But the pain is still NOT the same. A BW sees her life and dreams flash b4 her eyes when she learns of her WH betrayal. But OW may very likely blame herself (along with the rest of society) for even getting involved and try to act like its no big deal.

 

To say that the pain is the same is to assume that both parties feel the exact same feelings. Not true. While pain is pain is pain is pain, the differing positions of the women involved definitely makes this pain ... different.

QUOTE]

 

I would agree that there is no point in defining levels of pain..i.e. my pain is greater than yours. But seeing as RC puts forward her views so forcefully, I wanted to add a couple of things. Sure the OW might love the MM and lose her hopes dream etc. The BS also loses her past, her memories. The biggest difference between the OW and the BS is that the OW has a choice. You can choose to play second fiddle or you can leave. The BS gets no choice. The mess made by other people is just dumped on your doorstep out of the blue and you have no choice in clearing it up. As someone else pointed out, the mess involved the pain I watched my children go through and was unable to do anything about it.

 

RC, you continually ask if others have been on both sides of the fence. I told you I hadn't. I had opportunities, I felt alone in my marriage...but I chose not to. I don't mean that to sound wholier than thou but I could choose not to cheat on my husband. I didn't have a choice in becoming a BS and going through hell. It was decided for me by other people. For the OW and MM the pain could be seen as a trade-off for the pleasure they had. The BS just gets the pain.

 

Sylvia

[Walking away]

Thanks for the apology.....

 

And, second, I, for one, have not put you on an OW pedestal. You are simply a human being who is attempting to do what is right for you. I, however, tend to disagree with your choice and want to prevent you from emotionally injuring yourself.

 

But, no more going around and around. You are a big girl and will make your own decisions.

 

I will just attempting to warn you of the pitfalls to come.

 

Peace

 

WA

[RealityCheck]

Sorry if I am a bit late here, as thread seems to have turned into something else but I wanted to add some more.First off, No I didn't, I take on board your points, some of which I've never considered before:

 

SG

 

 

I might actually say that the OW pain maybe greater b/c people will tell her to get over it as she was a volunteer to the situation, unlike the BW. The OW now has her reputation sullied, her motives challenged, you name it. But mostly, the OW has to suffer mostly alone. The OW will likely get NO support through her pain, but the BW will.

 

But the pain is still NOT the same. A BW sees her life and dreams flash b4 her eyes when she learns of her WH betrayal. But OW may very likely blame herself (along with the rest of society) for even getting involved and try to act like its no big deal.

 

To say that the pain is the same is to assume that both parties feel the exact same feelings. Not true. While pain is pain is pain is pain, the differing positions of the women involved definitely makes this pain ... different.

QUOTE]

 

I would agree that there is no point in defining levels of pain..i.e. my pain is greater than yours. But seeing as RC puts forward her views so forcefully, I wanted to add a couple of things. Sure the OW might love the MM and lose her hopes dream etc. The BS also loses her past, her memories. The biggest difference between the OW and the BS is that the OW has a choice. You can choose to play second fiddle or you can leave. The BS gets no choice. The mess made by other people is just dumped on your doorstep out of the blue and you have no choice in clearing it up. As someone else pointed out, the mess involved the pain I watched my children go through and was unable to do anything about it.

 

RC, you continually ask if others have been on both sides of the fence. I told you I hadn't. I had opportunities, I felt alone in my marriage...but I chose not to. I don't mean that to sound wholier than thou but I could choose not to cheat on my husband. I didn't have a choice in becoming a BS and going through hell. It was decided for me by other people. For the OW and MM the pain could be seen as a trade-off for the pleasure they had. The BS just gets the pain.

 

Sylvia

 

SG...

 

For the record. I did not cheat on my xH during my marriage. My A happened 7 years after.

 

I will 100% agree with you in terms of the bull**** being dumped at the BS's doorstep. Blind sided is an understatement to say the least! I honestly felt as though my world crumbled in a heart beat and it was brought immediately to a place of hell! I will and have stood in support of the pain in being a BS.

 

I also have been the OW and felt that pain as well!

Now I am talking of MY experience here! and I honestly do not know how anyone who has not experienced something can speak about it!

 

Because I landed on LS during my time of my A, and did not find LS at the time of my betrayal does not mean I do not stand in support of the pain of the BS. Because I do!!!

 

I have long healed since a BS and I do not choose to relive that for all the tea in china, so I do not choose to go to the infidelity forum. I have formed amazing friendships in the OW Forum and though I am not involved with the MM, the experience it is still recent so this is where I choose to be.

 

I can talk about both! I can feel compassion for both! And; I do know of the pain for both! But I am not talking about your pain SG, I am stating my own.

 

I will say this again, your pain is not mine, but mine is not yours either. So the whole idea of discussing pain in a competitive form, is absolutely ridiculous. Pain cannot be measured in any form. It souly belongs to that individual.

 

So let me make a suttle change to my post, so the entire discussion and comparrisons of pain can be laid to rest.

 

FOR ME, the pain was the same.

[UnknowingOW]

The OW can also lose their past if it is a long-term-affair. And sometimes there is no choice for either the BS or the OW due to love. As RC put it pain is pain, but love is love.

 

Do you really think pain is the trade-off?

 

That would be saying something like this. "I am choosing to be gay (no offense here to anyone who is gay...just trying to make a point) because I get pleasure out of it." So my trade-off is now I am publiclly shune and treated with disrepect. Do you think this is a choice? So many have no idea how to repsond to an OP or anyone who has made a decision to go agains the public moral flow.

 

Pain is Pain

Love is Love

Respect is Repect

 

The only difference in those words are what we define as those words and the level at which we define them.

[sylviaguardian]

RC,

 

I agree that there is no point in competition. And no wonder your pain was immense if you had already been in a marriage with a guy who cheated on you. Does that mean you were single but having an affair with a MM? Wasn't that kind of strange after you had been cheated on yourself? Did it clarify to you why your husband had an affair in the first place?

 

I agree with you not wanting to be on the infidelity board - it was the last place I would ever have chosen to be...so much misery in the one place... and the same stuff repeated over and over again.

 

Syl

[sylviaguardian]

The OW can also lose their past if it is a long-term-affair. And sometimes there is no choice for either the BS or the OW due to love. As RC put it pain is pain, but love is love.

 

I agree probably if the OW has been really lied to, she will look back on the past in a different light. I suppose with a BS it tends to be a longer and more involved past that gets chucked in the trash can (note I say 'tends' to, I know there are some OW who put up with it for years).

 

Do you really think pain is the trade-off?

 

That would be saying something like this. "I am choosing to be gay (no offense here to anyone who is gay...just trying to make a point) because I get pleasure out of it." So my trade-off is now I am publiclly shune and treated with disrepect. Do you think this is a choice?

 

I didn't really mean it like that. I meant that although it is awful for an OW if they get unceremoniously dumped and then shunned, at some point they got something good out of it. I am just talking about my own experience I guess. I feel like I put up with a distant husband for years and then got dumped in the **** so I had five years of crap and he had 3 years of fun, intimacy etc whereas for me it has all been a long slog. Just a rant I guess.

 

By the way the analogy of being gay doesn't really work for me. People who are gay don't CHOOSE to be gay - they are gay.

 

Syl

[movinon05]

In the past 9 months that I have been here, I have spent an inordinate amount of time trying to pull OWs up and trying to get them to start thinking clearly, while still being empathetic to their situations. I get so frustrated sometimes because I am on the other side now and so much better without exMM, that I wish I could pull you all into my headspace. But I don't think I can really help anyone anymore.

 

I stood in my truth when I told my story. Sami. The good, the bad, and the ugly. My only suggestion to you Sami, at this point, is that you stand in your truth. You cannot preach to the choir (like WA’s exMM) if you are going to keep secret an important tidbit like the fact that MM is back in your life!! That's a very important piece of information when you are addressing other OW, and you lose your credibility and your truth when you are trying to help those in the same situation. Forget the other posters who try to bring you down! I'm just talking about the OW's. My other problem is that you often encourage other OW (perhaps without realizing it), when you sugar coat that it is possible to have a good A or good outcome. That is not realistic. That is a true shot in the dark, Sami! The odds are greatly stacked against OW's, so I cannot personally justify rubbing their heads and saying “Aw, it'll be okay.” Because most likely, it won't! Most OW’s are on a runaway train and that cliff is right there ahead of them!

 

And for the records, what your MM said was really sad, Sami. Not even funny. I think it might also fall under the heading of denial.

 

I didn't have the benefit of this board going through my whole A. In fact, I was over a year out of it when I joined. Fortunately, when exMM did try to contact me after all that time, I had you guys to go to for support. It was great to have people who knew what I was going through and help me get through it. And I appreciate all the friends I have made from this forum.

 

But I have to admit one thing. I did all my work during and after the affair all by myself, with some help from my family and with the love of my children. And I now believe my work is done regarding affairs. I don't think what I say matters much anymore because every person has to ultimately do the work themselves. And those in the thick of it, don't really want to hear a success story when that success is that the affair is over and the OW has moved on to bigger and better things and really is happy to be out of the A without the MM in tow! They only want to hear success stories with the MM and OW being together in the end. And even if they are happy for you, they are just glad it is not them or their time to learn the hard way! And my frustration knows no end when I watch everyone else floundering.

 

And I'm tired of the comparisons, especially on this thread, regarding whose pain is worse. The point is to move away from the pain, no matter how it is inflicted on you or who did the inflicting. Move on people, away from the pain! I really think women have no idea how strong they can be.

 

I want to move on with my life. I don't want to think about the affair anymore. I don't want to keep rehashing what happened in my life. I'm just not there anymore. I want to think about dating again, and talk about dating and friends and new adventures, and family, and my new grandchildren, and my house, and my dreams and aspirations now! That is my headspace. And even if I do think about exMM, you know what? I’m so far ahead of the game now, that I get over it in a nano second. I think that's pretty huge after 7 years of a real relationship, don't you?

 

So maybe this is my swan song to LS OW's. If somehow I was able to help someone, great. I know many of you have helped me. But I, like Ozgirl and Jessie, and a number of others before me have a new life to live.

 

Who knows though, Sami. Maybe I'll get drunk and stop in and post like you did someday! (That's not really a knock, so don't take it that way)!

 

My best to you all. And I hope you keeping looking inside yourself for your strengths and keep moving toward the light.

[BenThereDunThat]

Hi MO - if this is really your swan song, I just wanted to say thanks for your help when I was in the thick of it. While I did most of the hard work myself, you guys were all here for me (and especially in LH) to validate everything I knew to be true. Or sometimes, just to "listen"....

 

Here's to not only Moving Onward but also UPward!!

 

(((hugs)))

[UnknowingOW]

By the way the analogy of being gay doesn't really work for me. People who are gay don't CHOOSE to be gay - they are gay.

 

Syl

 

I agree 100% about it not being a choice...people are who the are.

 

But the analogy was with respect to putting it out there into the world for all to see who you are; be it gay, OP, relgious...whatever.

 

Certain things go against the moral public.

 

But back to RC's point.

Pain is pain.

 

Those who have not experienced both sides of the BS or OP make judgement calls based soley on their own experiences. And many attack the OP because they feel the OP is doing this on purporse. I don't think that's the case with the majority of OWs. There are some mean people out there which do act out to hurt other people and think nothing of it.

 

But on the whole, the OP knows their situation is bad and they want support, not judgement and condemnation by others so they can get their head on straight, gather up what amount of self-respect and dignity they have left and make a better judgement.

 

Hopefully LS will give the OP and the BS insight into what is happening within the other head/heat.

[movinon05]

Hi MO - if this is really your swan song, I just wanted to say thanks for your help when I was in the thick of it. While I did most of the hard work myself, you guys were all here for me (and especially in LH) to validate everything I knew to be true. Or sometimes, just to "listen"....

 

Here's to not only Moving Onward but also UPward!!

 

(((hugs)))

 

Yes you did do most of the hard work, didn't you!!! I was SO SO proud of you!! I'm glad I was able to help you. Thanks. Here's to moving on!

[RealityCheck]

RC,

 

I agree that there is no point in competition. And no wonder your pain was immense if you had already been in a marriage with a guy who cheated on you. Does that mean you were single but having an affair with a MM? Wasn't that kind of strange after you had been cheated on yourself? Did it clarify to you why your husband had an affair in the first place?

 

I agree with you not wanting to be on the infidelity board - it was the last place I would ever have chosen to be...so much misery in the one place... and the same stuff repeated over and over again.

 

Syl

 

HAD SG HAD...an Affair

 

Yes I was single! I don't believe strange is the right word and I could probably think of a better words being "**** happens".

 

The reasons why the xH had an affair belong to me and so do the reasons I had an A! So I'm not even going start that dance!

 

Bottom line! BOTH are terrible places to be!

 

Now if you will excuse me, I am going to exit and join in the Swan Dance with MO and wish everyone much healing for whatever situation they are in!

[lovernotafighter]

just to jump in the convo at the last min. before fleeing out of here..

 

I've had both, I've been the cheatie and the cheater...in my case my cheating has been more painful.

 

there is the added guilt, before I was a victim..it hurt but I didn't have to feel guilty for hurting someone else..in the the case I'm in now..now I am the villain.

 

it is always confusing, it's hurting other people, I carry the burden of lies and a double life with me daily...I can get out..but I can't in my heart...okay gotta go,bye guys

[reneet]

Okay! I have not been here in a while!

 

I have read the views of my OW friends and yes! Can even say I have taken flight to actually meeting MO face to face! She is super charismatic, energetic, intelligent, witty, classy and; gorgeous!

And: I am 100% sure that all my other OW friends are very much the same! We have shared pics, our pain, our laughter, our careers, our dreams, our life's walk and petty much everything ood friends share!

 

I have now sat back and read the new stories of the OW's who have come to this Forum for support in their pain. Believe me! When I read your stories, I revert to a time of pain! I too, felt absolutely everything ya all are going through!

 

I have had my ass kicked in this Forum, but have stood my ground by BS and have had tremendous support from the OW's. They may not have agreed with me at times in my thinking, but have supported me nonetheless!

 

this is, I have walked on both sides of the fence. I have been a BS and an OW. I have made it quite clear that I have also shared in the pain as a BS.

 

What is worse? NEITHER! Each side has equally the same pain! Not the same reasons, but the SAME PAIN!

 

It is all about loving someone with all your heart and believing in a future of togetherness! That is the REALITY!

 

Now, for those BS who have suffered the pain of adultery. For the mistake of their spouses cheating of a time or so, that's forgivable! But! For those who have experienced their spouses in an affair for a length of time, COME ON! That's a RELATIONSHIP! WAKE UP! A spouse who has committed infidelity for a year or more is something NOT worth fight for! Why? why would you want to put yourself through the constant suspicion! To believe in TRUE LOVE, is hypicrital to the mind space of suspision. As I recall the VOW...Love is not jealous, needy suspicious etc.... This is clearly not for the VOW or COMMINTMENT sake! Then of course, we hear....the reason is for the sake of the kids! Truth is, kids grow and KNOW the lack of love between the parents. I certainly would not want to set that standard for my children! I love my childern with all of my heart, and would never want them to settle because that is what I taught them to do! Let's talk finances. There is ALWAYS A WAY! This of course depends on the neediness of the "Self". Could it be the "material" world is what you set your "Own" standard of self worth. What you have set yourself to accustomed to living? Well, I would think that my "Self Worth" is more than the house I live in and the car I drive! Bills? Well, perhaps living within one's means is something that needs to be considered. And; we all KNOW money can't buy happiness!

 

Staying in a marriage with someone who has had long term infidelity, certainly needs self rediscovery! I don't know how anyone would want to live in a relationship where the mind and heart would be focused on anything but REAL LOVE! Lack of control, weaknes, money, children and neediness are all things that do not warrant "Self Worth".

 

The MM has crossed the line! WHY would anyone want to sacrifice all of their own self worth for a Man who does not value that in you!

 

*****

 

In the world of an OW, Oh! Boy! How exciting! He gives you all of himself! Without all the daily responsibility bull****! So how can we truly evaluate the Man! How wonderful we feel when he tells us how sex, smart and wonderful we are! How he would love to spend his life with just little o'l me! That he has never loved anyone more than what he tells me! No one has ever made him feel the way I do physically or emotionally! He tells us of how misserable he is at home! How his wife does not fulfill his needs! No passion primarily! No communcation! Bla...bla...bla....

BUT! HE STAYS! Stays for the kids! For financial reasons! For all those reasons but "LOVE"!. Yet, he says "he loves me!"

Well, REALITY is, if this Man is searching for love and claims to have found it with me, AND STILL is not willing to leave his wife for me, WHAT then is his REALITY? Simple TRUTH! The OW is the fantasy that pacifies his reality at home. HE HAS IT ALL!

 

He truly is the coward, the snake, the predator! The person who has spiritually taken YOUR POWER!

 

THINK!

 

I wish you all the strength and love within yourselves to discover your own POWER and create a TRUE LOVE REALITY!

 

I beg to differ...

[NoIDidn't]

Well, I guess I can impose the same question to you.

 

I have been on both sides of the fence. Have you??

 

I am not making this thread out to be a competition in pain because that was not my point. You have stated some valid reasons of pain for OW's, but it is not the case of all OW's. In my case, promises were NEVER made so no, I was not hurting over empty promises. I did share my A with close friends and family, so I did have many great people to talk too. And; Yes! I got plenty of support when I ended my A! Plenty! The OW, does share in hopes and dreams as the BS, so that is a false statement. I can't say I blamed myself, but I will say that I was not proud of my involvement. I don't participate in the blame game whether it be with the exH, MM, other people or myself. No point! Involvement is involvement. It is about choice, but I certainly am not going to beat myself up over it, all I can do is learn from it.

 

My pain was the love I felt in my heart and that is where most of the pain comes from. Yes! you are correct! Pain, is pain is pain is pain.

 

 

 

RC,

 

It seems that I triggered you in some way. That was not my intention. As stated by movingon, I did not post to have a pain competition. I simply said that it is not the same and I stand by what I said. From your post to me, it really seems like you took offense to my statements about how the OW in some cases has to deal with her pain. If that was not the case for you, I am sincerely glad. In fact, I am never happy over another feeling this kind of pain without some sort of support.

 

Fact is, the pain of betrayal for the wife is not the same as the pain of the OW. Even though there was one that stated the pain was the same for her with her xH as with her XMM. Her situation was different than some. Its a completely different ball game when you don't know the guy is married vs. when you do.

 

But, back to my original point, no pain competition here. Pain is pain is pain is pain. But the perspective of where the pain is coming from is what makes it different. Please, note that I did not say worst or better or lessened or anything at all qualitative. I said different.

 

Oh yeah, yes I have been on the other side of the fence, but he wasn't married - yet. He got engaged in the middle of our relationship - but you guessed it, it was not to me. And in the case of that R, I can say the pain of my H cheating was far worst b/c I want my H/M, I didn't want that guy anyways.

[Jessie61]

 

And I'm tired of the comparisons, especially on this thread, regarding whose pain is worse. The point is to move away from the pain, no matter how it is inflicted on you or who did the inflicting. Move on people, away from the pain! I really think women have no idea how strong they can be.

 

I want to move on with my life. I don't want to think about the affair anymore. I don't want to keep rehashing what happened in my life. I'm just not there anymore. I want to think about dating again, and talk about dating and friends and new adventures, and family, and my new grandchildren, and my house, and my dreams and aspirations now! That is my headspace.

 

MO,

 

I saw my name being mentioned, so I said... "What the heck, let's post something"... So here I am.

 

I agree with you. Who cares about "who did what to whom", and "who suffers the most"? It is all about moving away from the pain and making your life better, isn't it? In my case, the A was not developing into a real relationship, so I walked away.

 

And I can also honestly say that I have done that quite successfully. Less than 3 months ago I was (in effect) an emotional wreck, but now I feel stronger and happier than I have ever done before. I am looking forward to things, I am interested in life and I wake up with a smile on my face every day.

 

And I am not "Superwoman", so if I can do it, then anyone can do it!

 

I, too, have tried to spread the word over on "the other side" that it is possible to walk away from MM and be genuinely HAPPY. Yes, sometimes I probably sound irritatingly cheerful ( ) but I do think that it is a message that needs to be out there, even though there might be few people listening.

 

And no, I am not going to keep repeating that message forever either. The A is over. I don't want to think about it anymore. I want to get on with my new life. Like yourself, MO, I cannot wait!!!!

[RealityCheck]

RC,

 

It seems that I triggered you in some way. That was not my intention. As stated by movingon, I did not post to have a pain competition. I simply said that it is not the same and I stand by what I said. From your post to me, it really seems like you took offense to my statements about how the OW in some cases has to deal with her pain. If that was not the case for you, I am sincerely glad. In fact, I am never happy over another feeling this kind of pain without some sort of support.

 

Fact is, the pain of betrayal for the wife is not the same as the pain of the OW. Even though there was one that stated the pain was the same for her with her xH as with her XMM. Her situation was different than some. Its a completely different ball game when you don't know the guy is married vs. when you do.

 

But, back to my original point, no pain competition here. Pain is pain is pain is pain. But the perspective of where the pain is coming from is what makes it different. Please, note that I did not say worst or better or lessened or anything at all qualitative. I said different.

 

Oh yeah, yes I have been on the other side of the fence, but he wasn't married - yet. He got engaged in the middle of our relationship - but you guessed it, it was not to me. And in the case of that R, I can say the pain of my H cheating was far worst b/c I want my H/M, I didn't want that guy anyways.

 

Triggered my curiosity yes of course.

 

This is one Forum that can get heated up pretty quickly because of the situation so I expect to get many opinions on many levels, but I am not going to take any of it personally.

 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

[NoIDidn't]

Triggered my curiosity yes of course.

 

This is one Forum that can get heated up pretty quickly because of the situation so I expect to get many opinions on many levels, but I am not going to take any of it personally.

 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

 

RC

 

No prob. I don't care to be judgemental of anyone. I have my own skeletons to hide. Many just as bad or worst than what some people think of infidelity. I have a very unique history and can say that if it weren't for two affairs, I would not exist. But I know the pain that my grandmothers felt, so I know that the OW pain is just as real as the BW pain. Both are over 75 now, but they still carry the scars.

 

I also agree with Jessie and MO, that we ALL just want to move past it. Whatever pain was felt, we ALL want to put it into perspective and leave it in the past while taking the lessons learned with us into our futures.

 

 

BTW, I didn't read all of the posts until after I posted and saw that the tone of the thread completely changed for a bit. Hope I didn't cause any confusion.

[Owl]

I'd like to pose a counter-question...

 

RC, you posted:

But! For those who have experienced their spouses in an affair for a length of time, COME ON! That's a RELATIONSHIP! WAKE UP! A spouse who has committed infidelity for a year or more is something NOT worth fight for! Why?

 

Would that not also pertain to the OS's side as well?

 

If you've been involved with a MM/MW for an extended length of time and they've not left their BS, would that not also mean that they're not worth the OM/OW's effort to fight for as well?

 

I don't see how that would not work both ways.