My wife wants an open marriage

[jazzcat516]

Hello there ... and thank you in advance for reading my thread.

 

I am 35 years old, and have been married for 5 years.

I consider myself a pretty open minded guy.

 

About a year ago, my wife started talking about open-marriages. Actually she started, by asking the question "do we love each other enough that if one cheated on the other ...would we forgive and move on". I answered "yes", being a very totally comitted kind of guy that would do just about anything for my marriage. I am also an extremely forgiving kind of fellow.

 

Over the weeks ....it lead to "open-marriage" discussions that she brought up. My feeling was that it was a pandoras box, and I told her this. I told her that if we did this ... who knows what could happen, and it could be difficult to close the box.

 

About 6 weeks ago, after her talking and justifying it for so long (and if you havent guessed ...our sex life has been non-existant- it sucks), I said ..."ok", lets try it. Found out she had been talking to guys for about 6 months leading up to this.

 

...and I will be honest ....I had a very short fling with a woman (1 week). I ended it ... it did not feel right and I told my wife. She started something with a guy she had been chatting with ....and was still into it .... heavy. She even lied to the guy saying she was separated. He wanted to cool things down when he realized something was odd. She has been quite literally devastated. I think that bothered me more than her being with another guy.

 

So I had a serious fight, and serious talk with my wife. i said I can't do this. It does not work for me. I said that I wanted us to work through things together...and that I felt that this open-marriage thing would only end in divorce ....and not help anything. I said I wanted to try to work things through - by things ...I mean whatever is causing us to grow apart - not just the bedroom ...that the bedroom is a by-product.

She said she would think about it. Well ...its been a week......we were at her parents ....she wanted to go meet a guy...I got pissed and left her there ....and drove home.

 

I called her the next day ..this morning ......explaining why I was so angry. I asked her if she wanted to work it through? I said either we work it through ...or its over ...(yes i gave an ultimatum). She said she would have to think about it because she likes the lifestyle, and that its a tough decision, and that she needs to sort out what she wants, and that we should not talk for a couple days. She is coming home tomorrow night. She said she is going to have a long heart-to-heart with her mom ...and said she was going to tell everything about what happened.

 

I feel like crap. I feel like I could have stopped things but didnt when I had the chance. Do I have no backbone? Why is this so hard? I still love her ...am I crying because I dont know if I love myself enough ...or because I might have lost her a long time ago ...maybe she never loved me to begin with ...to be able to do this? Somebody help please ...and soon..Thank you.

[jazzcat516]

just checking if this got posted

[HokeyReligions]

Its no use thinking about the past and wondering if she ever loved you. You loved and married and now it seems like she loves the lifestyle and not you. People fall in and out of love - unfortunatly its ususally not both partners at the same time and one gets really hurt.

 

I think your ultimatum was fine - you need to set boundaries even if they cause you pain now, because you know without them you will be in more pain later and for a longer time.

 

If she is not willing to go to counseling and work this out then it may mean the marriage is over. Its going to hurt but you don't want to be with someone who is using you for her personal comfort (lifestyle) and is not committed to the marriage.

 

It sounds from your post that your wife was just wanting your permission to cheat so she wouldn't have to feel guilty about it. Or was your fling before the discussion on open marriage? Maybe she was trying to get back at you and ended up developing feelings for this other man.

 

Your marriage could be salvagable, but only if you Both want it and Both are committed to it.

[superconductor]

Dude, she's probably already sleeping with someone else.

 

Get a lawyer immediately, but do not tell her that you've done so. Just get all your legal and financial ducks in a row first before you do anything else.

 

You will have to get rid of this idea that "feelings" of love take precedence over everything else. They don't. Reality takes precedence.

 

I know it's difficult - I speak from bitter experience here - but whether we like it or not, divorce is war.

[jazzcat516]

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

My fling was a result of trying the open marriage on for size.

So I think its valid that she was really looking for "permission" to cheat.

[Ladyjane14]

When your partner says, "I want to see other people.".... that's because s/he's ALREADY SEEING OTHER PEOPLE.

 

 

 

You've been had, fella.

You were manipulated into abetting your wife's extramarital affair. You've been maneuvered into providing a safety net for her while she experiments with her new relationship. And you've been relagated to percolating nicely on the back burner while she decides if her new guy is going to work out or not.

 

Yes... I agree with Hokey. The ultimatum you gave your wife is a valid response. I don't believe for a minute that the initial request for 'open marriage' was made honestly on her part. I think she already had someone picked out.

 

You made a huge mistake agreeing to it. And you made a huge mistake taking part in it. That said, it's never to late to do the right thing. The "right thing" would be for you to adhere to your own internal beliefs on love and marriage. If you believe that two married people shouldn't be sleeping around.... stick to your belief.

 

Depending on how caught up she is in her affair, she won't be back anytime soon. Prepare yourself emotionally for that. Having become involved in it, she's bound to see it through now. Fortunately for you... it sounds like her affair partner may have backed off.

 

If I were you, I'd contact him and fill him in on the facts. It sounds like maybe he's been mislead similar to the way that you were. Giving him a heads-up before she reels him back in is a decent thing to do.

[Ladyjane14]

...our sex life has been non-existant- it sucks

 

BTW, which one of you was withholding in the bedroom???

[jazzcat516]

Yes ... I did make 2 huge mistakes ... thats partly why I feel like crap ... but as you say .... its never too late ....and so I ended it quickly .....and told her exactly how I feel about it ....and I will stick firm to what I believe.

 

As for a divorce war ... the only winners are lawyers ... in a way I am lucky .... no kids .... no house .... she works ...I do make more money than her.

[Ladyjane14]

Chances are she'll be back when her affair runs it's course, Jazzcat. Unfortunately, more often than not... the BS (betrayed spouse) has 'run out of gas' by then and doesn't WANT his WS (wayward spouse) back.

 

You might pick up and read a copy of Surviving An Affair. It'll give you some pointers on how to expedite the ending of the affair, as well as how to preserve your love for your partner for as long as you can.

[Outcast]

She has been quite literally devastated. I think that bothered me more than her being with another guy.

 

And well it should because that is the sign that she's in love with him. 'Open marriage' means that you have sex with others but still love your spouse, not that you can fall in love with other people but get some poor schmuck to keep a house for you to live in.

 

That she loves this other guy is the signal your marriage is over.

[jazzcat516]

She was with holding in the bedroom.

...and I tried to do as much romantic stuff as possible ...

she says she is bored with it.

 

Lets see...

 

Gave her a beautiful breakfast in bed on Sundays

Every now and then I would buy her flowers or a rose ...for no particular reason

I drew her a nice bath ...with soft music she adores, candles yatta yatta

 

when i gave her a card ...I write in it my deepest feelings for her ....and its a good full inside card cover.

 

I gave her foot massages

 

I wasnt about "I want sex here and now" ...but she always pushed me away whenever I made moves ... and never initiated.

 

The few times we did .... dont think she was even in the same room.

 

So I throw my arms up in the air ...

[Ladyjane14]

She was with holding in the bedroom.

...and I tried to do as much romantic stuff as possible ...

she says she is bored with it.

 

How long has this been going on?

Was it ALWAYS like this?... or is it a recent development?

 

The reason I ask is that sometimes a partner who is cheating avoids marital sex. The ones who do are most often concerned that they are 'cheating' on their affair partner if you can believe it!

 

If you can pinpoint a change in her sexual behavior, you can probably determine how long the affair has been going on.

[Ladyjane14]

She started something with a guy she had been chatting with ....and was still into it .... heavy. She even lied to the guy saying she was separated. He wanted to cool things down when he realized something was odd. She has been quite literally devastated. I think that bothered me more than her being with another guy.

 

If she's been "chatting" heavily, and was "devastated" when the OM backed off.... That's the guy.

 

Put a keylogger on her PC. You can get more info about them by typing the word keylogger into your browser. There ARE some that are undectable by spyware software, primarily the kind that attach to the cords.

 

You can't fight what you don't know.

 

 

And.... don't forget to check the 'detail' records on the cell phone as well as the bank/credit card statements.

[jazzcat516]

I have tried to be romantic for our whole relationship.

 

The little/no/dislike of sex has been going on for 2 years.

 

There is another possible factor (nothing is ever cut and dry)

 

We have not been able to have kids. I think she resents me for it.

 

We also have started to quarrel over the past year ...getting very intense the last couple months. Argue over everything/anything.

 

She has emotional ups and downs .... and even has said she hated me so much she wishes I were dead - and taking it back later.

 

During and after the argueing ...she has suggested adopting kids ...that it would let us focus more on bringing up children. I was adiment (sp?) that this was a big NO NO ....that it would not fix anything ...and only make it worse for us and kids. And I stuck to that belief bigtime.

 

I don't think she has her head on straight, I think she resents me, and I don't think she wants to embrace a life with me anymore.

[Ladyjane14]

I don't think she has her head on straight, I think she resents me, and I don't think she wants to embrace a life with me anymore.

 

Have you considered just dropping her like a bad habit?

[jazzcat516]

Whether she has been cheating with a guy for a year, or if she just met him a few weeks ago ...It makes no difference ....the longer time will just hurt more ...but in the end....for me ...its whether or not she wants to try to "fix"things or not that matters to me. Like I said ...I am a very forgiving ...and understanding kinda guy ..... but I am at a crossroads with her now ....I gave her an ultimatum .....and I will hold that firm.

I think I just needed someone to talk to

[jazzcat516]

thats also what i am struggling with ...and why i need to talk to someone ...by the way ...thank you so much!!!

 

Thats why I cried this morning.

 

I dont know if i am holding on to her because I now have low self esteem, or if its because I am a devoted husband. Everything I ever learned growing up was to stick to those vows ....and do everything (your best) to be a good husband

[jazzcat516]

not sure my other post went up .....try again...

 

I keep thinking about dropping her like a bad habit .....

 

but i dunno if i cant because i have low self esteem through all this ...and need to get some ....or if its cuz I believe I should be a devoted husband and do my best to the end of time

[HokeyReligions]

Everything I ever learned growing up was to stick to those vows ....and do everything (your best) to be a good husband

 

You HAVE done your best. Don't dwell on past mistakes - we all make them. It does not lessen your value as a person or as a husband.

 

Low self esteem is natural at this point. You've been beaten down and it's hard to get back up - especially when you are doing it on your own. You might consider making a list for yourself - list the good, list Your accomplishments, list Your effort, Your good points, Your feelings and needs and how She has let You down. Maybe talk to a counselor a couple of times to help you sort through this. Talk to a divorce lawyer. Make a financial plan for yourself - when you see that you can live without her your fears will decrease and you will begin to build up your self esteem.

 

I'm sorry to say it, but from the additional posts it does sound to me like its time to separate. There are legal separations that will protect your financial assets and give you time to make that final decision of divorce - it's easier to slip into that sometimes than it is to just immediately get a divorce.

 

It's nice to be needed, but not as a safety net or doormat. You are living on the fringes of your own life.

[Ladyjane14]

You are living on the fringes of your own life.

 

EXACTLY. :bunny:

 

There is NOTHING that builds self-esteem quicker than getting into the driver's seat of your own life and taking it where YOU want it to go.

 

You can't make other people's decisions for them, that's a fact. But you can damn well make your own.

[jazzcat516]

Thank you everyone ... I really appreciate the help.

This site and your feedback are a real godsend.

 

I don't know where I would be emotionally without your help - because I had literally no one to talk to.

 

I have had time to digest things, think about it, and I have decided to start planning for a separation and then divorce.

 

You are so right ...I have been living on the fringes of my own life for too long. For her not to even think about things and tell me on the phone this morning that she has not thought about it yet , and that she likes the status quo ....well ...it tells me that she cannot possibly value our marriage or me ...like I need them to be valued, and like they should be valued. Thank you so much guys ...for giving me a perspective "outside the box" I have been living in.

 

I have figured out that not only does she not value it enough ..she has the audacity to try to make me stew over what she will decide.

 

I think she is going to have a nice surprise when she gets home ... because I will have already made the decision!

 

I am a free man! and I am going to enjoy it for a long time. Unfortunately I will have been hardened... and it will take a long time before I can even think about letting a woman into my heart again. It hurts .... but you know something .... I feel free! Thank you so much!

[Ladyjane14]

Your welcome.

 

You might want to read and participate in some threads over on the Separation/Divorce forum. There are quite a few current members here at LS who are dealing with similar situations to yours. I think you'll find alot of support there... as well as comfort in the realization that you aren't alone.

 

Bad things sometimes happen to otherwise nice people.

The problems in your marrage didn't happen because there's something intrinsically wrong with you. For whatever reason... your spouse has made choices that aren't supportive of a close and loving marital relationship.

 

That's on her, not you. Whatever issues there were in the marriage could have been communicated to you and you might have worked on them together. That's what 'mature' people do anyway. She chose to bail instead.

[Sup]

Thank you everyone ... I really appreciate the help.

This site and your feedback are a real godsend.

 

I don't know where I would be emotionally without your help - because I had literally no one to talk to.

 

I have had time to digest things, think about it, and I have decided to start planning for a separation and then divorce.

 

You are so right ...I have been living on the fringes of my own life for too long. For her not to even think about things and tell me on the phone this morning that she has not thought about it yet , and that she likes the status quo ....well ...it tells me that she cannot possibly value our marriage or me ...like I need them to be valued, and like they should be valued. Thank you so much guys ...for giving me a perspective "outside the box" I have been living in.

 

I have figured out that not only does she not value it enough ..she has the audacity to try to make me stew over what she will decide.

 

I think she is going to have a nice surprise when she gets home ... because I will have already made the decision!

 

I am a free man! and I am going to enjoy it for a long time. Unfortunately I will have been hardened... and it will take a long time before I can even think about letting a woman into my heart again. It hurts .... but you know something .... I feel free! Thank you so much!

 

Just as a warning, this may be a "wake up" call to her. If you start to go through with this divorce, see it through to the end. She may then see what she has lost, or not. My point is, never take her back, stand firm on your decision, or she will string you along for how many years.

 

By the way, it seems funny that she started the open marriage topic thing, she may have already been doing this for some time, now she got permission.

[burning 4 revenge]

Dude, she's probably already sleeping with someone else.

 

Get a lawyer immediately, but do not tell her that you've done so. Just get all your legal and financial ducks in a row first before you do anything else.

 

You will have to get rid of this idea that "feelings" of love take precedence over everything else. They don't. Reality takes precedence.

 

I know it's difficult - I speak from bitter experience here - but whether we like it or not, divorce is war.

 

Yes, yes, and yes.

 

It's simply unacceptable and if she's selling this to you like it's something you should allow her to do for her hapiness, get a lawyer today!

 

Man, that's just too wrong.

 

Do you want to sit at home while she openly walks out the door smiling and nervous and dolled up and excited and juicing to go meet some other man for the purpose of tasting his load? Feeling him pop inside her? OMG, it makes me want to become a Muslim

[luvstarved]

OMG I went through this with my first husband although we were not already married when he brought it up. I was very young and naive and considered myself a "progressive thinker" so was pretty vulnerable...I was 19 and he was 32 and I eventually became his third wife (but not for long!). It was presented as all very scientific and philisophical and open minded. What a friggin' joke!

 

In retrospect, I realized that it really is just asking for permission to cheat and she had probably already started that when she brought it up with you.

 

It might work for some people, and more power to them, but in my case it turned into what I called "sex wars". As a 19 year old college student, I won more battles, and at one point he actually wanted me to "keep things even" and only partake when he had been able to do so. Good grief! It was when I found out he was hitting on all my good friends (with varying degrees of success) that the light began to dawn on me.

 

In this sort of situation your whole marriage gets to be all about sex and that just isn't right. I know you made a mistake in trying to agree to it but I do think it speaks to your open mindedness and desire to please her.

 

But you just can't sign up for something you don't feel right about for yourself. In the end, it wasn't about her trying to do anything positive for your marriage but just looking for sanctioned affairs. If this is what she needs, let her have it, but you deserve better. I know that a lot of people have trouble with fidelity and many do try to work on it and are sincere in their efforts. Trying to parlay their issues into an open marriage is just selfish. And it isn't that we are "naturally polygamous" as my ex used to say. Of course at some level we are, but we are also supposed to be as human beings the superior creatures on the planet and able to trade those transient urges for a deeper and more fulfilling relationship.

 

I hope that you really are able to start over happily with your life as a "free man". I agree with the poster who warned you that she might rethink things and want you back and I agree that you should not go there. She has shown her true colors and as much as she might try to camouflage them, they will always be there. You know that you don't want this kind of life, so stick to your guns. And best of luck...keep us posted...