Holding my ground

[Texas]

Hello Loveshack-

 

I periodically check in here- usually just peeking in to see what's happening- rarely do I respond- and I haven't ever asked for advice.... until today.

 

My husband and I met 9 years ago- about a year after my divorce from my first husband. We date- lived together- and even had a child before we married. We have been married 7 years this August.

 

Before we met- I dated one person semi-seriously, that relationship lasted about 8 months then ended on a friendly note. We found that due to circumstance in our lives- it was just not the right time for us to be together that way. In order to salvage a friendship -we stopped dating and stopped sleeping together. We did however continue to talk- share ideas, feelings etc... and in the process developed a wonderful friendship. We have never had sex again or even kissed since our boyfriend\girlfriend relationship ended.

 

When I met my [now] husband- one of the very first things I told him was that I had a friend-whom I used to date- and we kept in touch. He was made aware that we sometimes had lunch- and occasionally sometimes frequently talked on the phone. I asked him then if he would have a problem with that- he said no- and we began to date & eventually got married.

 

Which brings us to today......what a mess.

 

I guess about 4 years ago- when I purchased my first computer- and discovered AOL instant messaging- the problem began with my husband. My friend and I-both having AOL- found it easier and more convenient to stay in touch over the computer. At first- my husband was curious -and I didn't mind if he sat with me during a chat- I wasn't saying anything that he couldnt read.

 

Eventually I got AOL at work- and my friend and I are on each others buddy lists- as are several of my other friends and family members. I keep it running all the time- and just about every day some words are exchanged between my friend and me- even if its just "too busy to chat today."

 

My husband has decided that now- he doesn't like this whole scene. He gave me an ultimatum- "him or me." He doesn't realize how utterly ridiculous that sounds- because I truly am only friends with this man. I am and have been married to my husband for years. However- my friendship with this man has been around and part of my life for over 10 years- and I do not intend to give it up. So I called my husband's bluff- and he has since pulled back. I know him though- and this will surface again- so.....(thanks for being patient)- am I wrong here? Should I stand my ground about this issue? I feel like since I was upfront about this years ago- he should stick to his word about it not being a problem. Any advice?

 

Thanks!

 

Texas

 

:http://tlc.discovery.com/fansites/tradingspaces/tradingspaces.html"-

[Tony T]

Had you not disclosed your friend to your husband very early on, I would say you were wrong and to back off. But your husband gave his nod of approval and off you went.

 

However, your husband does deserve a measure of respect here. I think your friendship should resume with you ex of old but you ought to pull back and not make it as intense and close as it has been.

 

As a practical matter, opposite sex friends...and most particularly friendships with people you have made love with and dated prior to marriage...aren't a real good idea and usually don't work out well in the longrun. Not many husbands are eager to tolerate these.

 

If you want your husband to go along with these antics, take your friend OFF your buddy list and send him an email once a month to say hi. No matter what you want to admit, there is more than this than just a friendship...if only in your mind.

 

If you are really in love with your husband, nurture common friends and make them part of both of your lives. And, yes, do have your own friends you do things with...but people you've not had intimate relationships with.

 

As an extremely open-minded male myself, I would probably feel a bit weird if I had a wife who had a close friend she once dated seriously. I would wonder just what the whole deal was about.

 

Opposite sex friends outside of a marriage is in itself a sensitive issue and your first allegiance should be to your marriage. I'm not saying to cave in and give up the friendship but you better tone it down and put it in an appropriate perspective or your marriage will suffer.

 

I promise you, you're old bed buddy won't rescue you if you get a divorce on his account. He's probably got 20 or so past girlfriends on his AOL buddy list, half of which may be pregnant with or raising his kid(s).

[Ariadne]

Has your husband met your friend?

 

Maybe he wouldn't feel so threatened if he met your friend.

 

His imagination might be going wild and he sounds insecure for whatever reason. He may think you are being more intimate (I mean close, not sex) with this friend than with him, your own husband. That's definately threatening.

 

Also, I'm a bit torn. I understand friendship and all.

 

No matter how long you have known this friend, if it really bothers your husband, your husband should take precedence.

 

He shouldn't have given you an ultimatum, but it sounds lke he feels backed into a corner for some reason.

 

How would you like it if you were in the reverse position?

 

If he had a female friend he used to date and they were close? If you would feel differently than your husband does, then you two need to talk about it, because this WILL keep popping up in your relationship and will erode your marriage.

 

ALso, if I was the friend, I'd do my best to either get to know your husband or to back off.

 

Good luck.

[Ed]

I can understand why you feel justified to keep this friendship active. You have every right to. You are forever free to have any kind of relationship you want to have with anybody, whether he agrees (or agreed) to it or not.

 

If your husband had done this within the first year or two of your relationship, I would say he was trying to deceive you or control you. Maybe he is. There is no way for me to know. However, since he has waited this long to say something, I think that he really believed it would not be a problem for him and I think he really tried to overlook it and be comfortable with it. But either he never was comfortable with it or something has changed that he is not comfortable with.

 

You gave a lot of details about what has transpired. But there are many more details to this whole situation that you have left out. There are things going on that are not being said or being talked about. Probably on both sides. For him to just come up with this ultimatum, all of a sudden, indicates that something about your relationship with him has changed. Right or wrong, he felt this was one way to get things back on track.

 

If this friend of yours is such an important person in your life, he should be no more and no less important than your husband and should be included in your life with your husband. If you keep the two distinct and separate, that could be a big part of the problem. Does your husband know this man at all? Are they friends with each other? If not, why not?

 

You really did not give a clear indication of how much time you spend with your friend. If it is a great deal of time and it is all exclusive of your husband, here again, that could be a big part of the problem. It just depends on the people involved - what they want, need and expect.

 

Things do change over time. Priorities change, likes and dislikes change, feelings change. There's not much anybody can do about change, except, expect it and deal with it in an appropriate way.

 

Maybe your husband is not dealing with changes in an appropriate way. Giving an ultimatum to someone is a sure way to make something happen, but it is not the best way to tell somebody how you feel.

 

If I were you I would talk to your husband about this and try to meet in the middle if at all possible. One things is almost for sure, if you are going to find a solution to this problem you are having, you are both going to have to give up something. But it can still turn into a win-win situation if you both want it to.

[Texas]

I can understand why you feel justified to keep this friendship active. You have every right to. You are forever free to have any kind of relationship you want to have with anybody, whether he agrees (or agreed) to it or not. If your husband had done this within the first year or two of your relationship, I would say he was trying to deceive you or control you. Maybe he is. There is no way for me to know. However, since he has waited this long to say something, I think that he really believed it would not be a problem for him and I think he really tried to overlook it and be comfortable with it. But either he never was comfortable with it or something has changed that he is not comfortable with. You gave a lot of details about what has transpired. But there are many more details to this whole situation that you have left out. There are things going on that are not being said or being talked about. Probably on both sides. For him to just come up with this ultimatum, all of a sudden, indicates that something about your relationship with him has changed. Right or wrong, he felt this was one way to get things back on track. If this friend of yours is such an important person in your life, he should be no more and no less important than your husband and should be included in your life with your husband. If you keep the two distinct and separate, that could be a big part of the problem. Does your husband know this man at all? Are they friends with each other? If not, why not? You really did not give a clear indication of how much time you spend with your friend. If it is a great deal of time and it is all exclusive of your husband, here again, that could be a big part of the problem. It just depends on the people involved - what they want, need and expect.

Thanks to everyone.

 

Ed,

 

You are right about leaving out details- but I didn't want it to get too lengthy.

 

I actually don't "see" in person my friend hardly ever. Maybe once or twice a year now- we don't live close anymore. The straw that broke the camel's back was- when my husband popped in at my office last week and in the middle of our visit- my friend sent me a message simply saying "what are you doing today?" - I think that being right in front of him- got him to thinking -and too much at that. He knows and has known that we chat- and often. And eventhough I do not hide the fact- I also try not to engage in chats while my husband is around- I instead spend my time with him. Sort if my compromise if you will.

 

My husband does know this man- and years ago- when my friend was married or seriously dating someone- I heard little about him from my husband. In the past couple of years- since he has divorced- (but is dating again)- my husband doesn't like me having contact with him. Paranoid thoughts have at times even turned into accusations-as it did last week.

 

I do love my husband- and despite what he thinks- I do not have a desire to date or be with my friend in any other way than simply "friends." I suppose if I did want that- I could have taken steps to make that happen-in light of the fact that I have known this person for 10 years.

 

I know its rare- a couple-who once dated, being true friends for such a long time. But- nonetheless-its my situation- and I can't imagine what I would feel like if he was gone from my life. He has never let me down in any way- and that is more than I can say for any other person in my entire life. I suppose this is why I hang on to our friendship so. He is a great source of strength for me.

 

And- my husband is- special to me for other reasons- different reasons.

 

Putting the two together is obviously no longer an option- as my husband has it in his mind that "at any moment" I could check out the grass on the other side. And I have a hard hard time dealing with people's unfounded insecurities especially when they refuse to listen to reason- but instead resort to "strong-arm" tactics. I think I was offended and shocked to hear my husband's demand about ending my friendship- he of all people-knows that I do not respond well to that type of behaviour.

 

Thank you again for your advice- I do appreciate all points of view.

 

Texas

[Ed]

I do understand where you are coming from on this issue and I too have a hard time dealing with other people's unfounded insecurities. It would be a lot easier for everybody to get along if everyone thought the same way, felt the same way and used the same reasoning. It would be the end to all conflicts as we know them. But you and I both know that will never happen. So we must continue to be considerate and try to understand ourselves and our motives as well as those of others.

 

Real friends are a wonderful privilege. They are very resilient and very tolerant. A real friend is a friend for life unless you repeatedly abuse them. They are forgiving and understanding. They want what is best for you, even if it means giving up close contact, because they know that no matter how long it has been since contact was lost, you can pick up right where you left off without any hard feelings toward one another.

 

A marriage, for the most part, is not like this. A marriage includes friendship, but it is not a friendship. Friends can get away with things that spouses cannot. If it were not this way, there would be no need for marriage. We could all come and go as we please with little if any expectations of us or of others. We all have our ideals of what we would like our relationships to be. Some of those ideals are grandiose and beyond the bounds of what can actually be.

 

I don't suggest that you completely give up your friendship with this man. I also don't suggest that you try to get your husband and your friend to become pals. I do think it would be wise to reduce contact with the friend. I assure you if he really is a friend, he will understand.

 

Your husband needs something here. What he needs and why...I don't know. That's up to you to find out if you want to. Just try not to jump to conclusions or make assumptions about what he needs and why. I can assure you this, if he doesn't feel like he is the most important man in your life, there will continue to be trouble. Showing loyalty to another man, especially a former lover, no matter how long ago it was, is like pouring salt onto an open wound. It will only aggravate the situation. What you want to do is help it heal.

[midori]

Ed has suggested that your husband has some issues and/or needs that must be addressed, which may well be true. But I don't think that you can fully discredit the *possibility* that your friend doesn't have the best interests of your marriage at heart. Hopefully that's not true, but you'd be foolish to not even consider it. These things can be so subtle -- unconscious even on his part perhaps. I have had a similar experience (guy I'd briefly dated later posed as a friend, giving me supposedly helpful advice about a troubled relationship I was in -- and then asked me out himself) and I know lots of other people have too. It's worth bearing in mind at least; in fact it's the responsible thing to do. Some of the biggest mistakes we can make start out seeming benign or even beneficial because we never bother to question what we're doing and why.

 

For starters, you might want to make it a rule for yourself that you never discuss anything at all negative about your husband or your marriage with your friend. Regardless of what is or isn't between you, your friend isn't a good person to be giving you advice or even sympathy on that front.

 

The bottom line is that you need to talk to your husband about why he doesn't trust your judgement. It sounds like he's not worried about what's currently going on but about what might end up happening if you continue daily communication with this man. My guess is that your husband is uneasy with you having daily contact with a friend who not only is not his friend too, but who might well have a subversive agenda. I know I'd feel that way in his shoes. However wonderful your friend is, your first loyalties should be to your husband. He shouldn't have to remind you of that.

 

While I don't think that having a close friend of the opposite sex is cause for concern in and of itself, I also don't think it would hurt to occasionally examine your motives for maintaining this friendship, and for giving so much space and importance to a relationship that isn't incorporated into the fabric of your life with your husband and family. What are you really getting out of instant messaging with your friend everyday? Are you having significant & meaningful conversations? If so I think you should be troubled by the fact that you're so intimate with someone who is completely separate from the primary relationship in your life (your marriage). If you're not having significant & meaningful IM exchanges, why are you allowing a superficial & rather addictive activity like IMing someone throughout the day, everyday to come between you and your spouse?

 

The relationship you've described with your friend strikes me as borderline inappropriate. I'm pretty sure I'd feel the same way that your husband does about it. I'm not saying that I think you should allow your husband to dictate who your friends can be, or how/how much you can communicate with your friends. But perhaps you ought to reexamine the friendship yourself, and then consider the impact it's having on your marriage.

 

Good luck

[velvet]

Tricky! Tricky!

 

I imagine you can be walking on pins/needles around this subject with your husband. I would'nt let these two men be in the same room with each other. And you wont hear the end of it from your husband. Not as long as you are friends with the other.

 

It depends on how serious your husband fears the other man.

 

I would back off from your friend a little. Keep your distances with him regular so your husband wont jump to conclusions. For example dont see him twice this month because of your husbands requests and than once a week next month.

 

I dont see any men that would back down from this until the other guy is out of the picture for good. You can't fight for your friend either because it will cause your husbands jealousy to grow more.

 

Its going to be very tricky. Continue seeing your friend on occasion but dont let those two together for a long while.

 

Best of Luck

 

Hello Loveshack- I periodically check in here- usually just peeking in to see what's happening- rarely do I respond- and I haven't ever asked for advice.... until today. My husband and I met 9 years ago- about a year after my divorce from my first husband. We date- lived together- and even had a child before we married. We have been married 7 years this August. Before we met- I dated one person semi-seriously, that relationship lasted about 8 months then ended on a friendly note. We found that due to circumstance in our lives- it was just not the right time for us to be together that way. In order to salvage a friendship -we stopped dating and stopped sleeping together. We did however continue to talk- share ideas, feelings etc... and in the process developed a wonderful friendship. We have never had sex again or even kissed since our boyfriend\girlfriend relationship ended. When I met my [now] husband- one of the very first things I told him was that I had a friend-whom I used to date- and we kept in touch. He was made aware that we sometimes had lunch- and occasionally sometimes frequently talked on the phone. I asked him then if he would have a problem with that- he said no- and we began to date & eventually got married. Which brings us to today......what a mess.

 

I guess about 4 years ago- when I purchased my first computer- and discovered AOL instant messaging- the problem began with my husband. My friend and I-both having AOL- found it easier and more convenient to stay in touch over the computer. At first- my husband was curious -and I didn't mind if he sat with me during a chat- I wasn't saying anything that he couldnt read.

 

Eventually I got AOL at work- and my friend and I are on each others buddy lists- as are several of my other friends and family members. I keep it running all the time- and just about every day some words are exchanged between my friend and me- even if its just "too busy to chat today." My husband has decided that now- he doesn't like this whole scene. He gave me an ultimatum- "him or me." He doesn't realize how utterly ridiculous that sounds- because I truly am only friends with this man. I am and have been married to my husband for years. However- my friendship with this man has been around and part of my life for over 10 years- and I do not intend to give it up. So I called my husband's bluff- and he has since pulled back. I know him though- and this will surface again- so.....(thanks for being patient)- am I wrong here? Should I stand my ground about this issue? I feel like since I was upfront about this years ago- he should stick to his word about it not being a problem. Any advice? Thanks! Texas :http://tlc.discovery.com/fansites/tradingspaces/tradingspaces.html"-